Ratohnhaketon said: SAO is actually far more intelligent than it gets credit for. The virtual reality concept is very intricate and has a realistic grasp on the possibilities of both the future of gaming as well as the technological industry. There are also interesting themes brought to light by how much a game can truly influence one's behavior and morals. Well, if it highlighted the side characters more, then yes, this would be true. However, it focuses far too much on elevating Kirito for such themes to be expounded on. A much better example of such themes would be Log Horizon, where they are shown through both some forms of exposition, and intricate bi-linear character plots (See: Season 2, early eps). |
| It's natural for a person to deny he's a failure as a human being. That's why he searches for somebody who is more miserable than himself. That's why so much animosity exists on the internet. Those who aren't able to find a more miserable person, turn to the internet and call other people losers, even though they've never met. Just to make themselves feel superior. isn't that pathetic? There's a sense of security that comes from speaking badly of someone else. But that isn't true salvation. — Tatsuhiro Satou YandereTheEmo said: The only thing more pathetic than quoting someone you know nothing about, is quoting yourself. |
AttackOnTetris said: If you define "intelligent" as it pertains to a show in a certain way, NGNL can easily be considered such. It really isn't. There wasn't a single instance of the two MC's doing something intelligent that would have actually required intelligent direction. Their only displays of intelligence involve either guessing another character's actions ahead of time (extremely simple stuff to write) or instances of Gary Stu prowess such as when they apparently read through the whole library in their castle over a few days/weeks. Having your characters act in literally impossible ways is not intelligent writing by any metric. NGNL is entertaining and has some excellent visuals, but calling it an intelligent show is just rude. Ratohnhaketon said: SAO is actually far more intelligent than it gets credit for. The virtual reality concept is very intricate and has a realistic grasp on the possibilities of both the future of gaming as well as the technological industry. There are also interesting themes brought to light by how much a game can truly influence one's behavior and morals. All of that comes from the premise of the show, which the writer subsequently threw away like a used rubber only half a season later so that he could write yet another wish-fulfilment harem. |
| Now you're wondering if there's white text in any of my other posts. Over there, I'm everywhere. I know that. |
Ratohnhaketon said: Waifu games will never be real, the dream is dead.SAO is actually far more intelligent than it gets credit for. The virtual reality concept is very intricate and has a realistic grasp on the possibilities of both the future of gaming as well as the technological industry. There are also interesting themes brought to light by how much a game can truly influence one's behavior and morals.  |
 |
Shrabster said: Ratohnhaketon said: Waifu games will never be real, the dream is dead.SAO is actually far more intelligent than it gets credit for. The virtual reality concept is very intricate and has a realistic grasp on the possibilities of both the future of gaming as well as the technological industry. There are also interesting themes brought to light by how much a game can truly influence one's behavior and morals. In fact they will be real pretty soon. |
 |
Ratohnhaketon said: SAO is actually far more intelligent than it gets credit for. The virtual reality concept is very intricate and has a realistic grasp on the possibilities of both the future of gaming as well as the technological industry. There are also interesting themes brought to light by how much a game can truly influence one's behavior and morals. Too bad the game world is only used as a plot device. The mechanics of the game world are never fleshed out and the characters do not behave like people in a game, instead like people in real life. Many of the plot points make no sense since the story progresses without taking into consideration the actual mechanics of a real game world. They only put emphasis on mechanics when its convenient to the plot and completely ignores it when it feels like it. |
icirate said: AttackOnTetris said: If you define "intelligent" as it pertains to a show in a certain way, NGNL can easily be considered such. It really isn't. There wasn't a single instance of the two MC's doing something intelligent that would have actually required intelligent direction. Their only displays of intelligence involve either guessing another character's actions ahead of time (extremely simple stuff to write) or instances of Gary Stu prowess such as when they apparently read through the whole library in their castle over a few days/weeks. Having your characters act in literally impossible ways is not intelligent writing by any metric. NGNL is entertaining and has some excellent visuals, but calling it an intelligent show is just rude. The characters don't have to act realistically in order for it to be intelligent. The way they beat the games is very creative, and I had to stop and think many times to grasp what happened. |
 |
AttackOnTetris said: Shrabster said: You're right, you don't have to explain or defend shit, that's your prerogative, as is mine to question you on such. Lol you have an interesting way of questioning. Anyway this is a decent explanation and only covers the anime http://zeron87.hubpages.com/hub/Attack-on-Titan-Analysis-The-Culture-of-Complacency So can we all link ariticles to things we link now to prove they are deep? :D |
 Anime is good, fucking deal with it. |
black1blade said: So can we all link ariticles to things we link now to prove they are deep? :D What, did you get a post deleted? |
|
AttackOnTetris said: black1blade said: So can we all link ariticles to things we link now to prove they are deep? :D What, did you get a post deleted? No but if you've done it then surely every one can link to articles about their fav shows to prove they are deep XD |
Anime is good, fucking deal with it. |
| Actually I think that most anime that are considered smart have in fact severe non sequiturs. Sure anime are not a kind of entertainment focused on consistency. |
Lancehot said: Watamote is a gag anime & not the story of your life. |
black1blade said: No but if you've done it then surely every one can link to articles about their fav shows to prove they are deep XD Uh... k. I don't see the difference between typing a post and linking to a post which says what I would've typed if I wasn't lazy. |
|
| "NGNL is unintelligent. NGE is unintelligent. SEL, Angel's Egg is unintellignt" why not let us declare that all cartoons are unintelligent coz they aren't witty or smart in the first place why do people put meanings to random "symbolism" and "imagery" or puts emphasis on "intelligent" characters AKA Mary sues smh . |
| Twitter and it's consequences had been a disaster for the human race |
Snappynator said: Wait people think NGNL is intelligent? PoeticJustice said: AzureDaora said: Wait. Some people actually think NGNL is intelligent? ...why? It's an enjoyable show, but how the hell is it intelligent. It just has smart characters. Intelligent characters = intelligent show. Obviously. It is. It's the only anime that authentically portrays the thought process of one or more savant characters that I've seen. Sure, it's not mature or very deep, but it's authentic. You have to at least respect that about NGNL no matter what your opinion on it may be. Because many anime have tried to portray "genius" characters, like Kamisama no Memochou for example, and failed horribly, revealing just how little the creator knows about his choice of subject. |
 |
Red_Tuesday said: It is. It's the only anime that authentically portrays the thought process of one or more savant characters that I've seen. Sure, it's not mature or very deep, but it's authentic. Out of any words one could use to describe NGNL, authentic seems like the complete antithesis of what was presented, especially in regards to the characters. You have to at least respect that about NGNL no matter what your opinion on it may be. Because many anime have tried to portray "genius" characters, like Kamisama no Memochou for example, and failed horribly, revealing just how little the creator knows about his choice of subject. The show itself is a far spell from the justifications of something like Death Note or Code Geass, and even those shows failed miserably to justify their character's intellect past forcing the audience to presuppose that they were intelligent on mere premise and intuition. The problem with presenting characters as being inherently "intelligent" rather than proving to the audience that they are intelligent through their actions (Yes, mom, my "show, don't tell" is showing, I'll tuck it in later, as to not scare kids), is that such "authenticity" whittles away before we can even begin to dissect the characters' actions. These feelings become further augmented when dealing with absurdly convoluted and contrived happenings meant purely to bolster such notions of intelligence. Unfortunately, such contrivances only serve to amplify the audience's pre-existing disdain and breach of disbelief regarding the character's intellect. For instance, how are we expected to believe that a rational, authentic character, latent with intellect, would have the reasonable capacity to, for instance, understand the mechanics of the game they have little-no experience with, while manufacturing an extremely time-sensitive plan that would require the proper movements and actions of notably (in premise) ditzy and useless characters, who were not even aware of their surroundings, much less anything else? Note: suspension of disbelief is pretty hard to uphold in these situations, but even more-so when considered that we have to just "assume" that such a ditzy, incoherent girl would not trigger-finger nor talk at all, would understand based on kinesthetics alone when the person she was piggyback riding had stopped (who's to say she didn't stop when making turns?) and would operate under the perfect timing predicted by the two protagonists. I mean, such a contrivance is ludicrous in its own right, but when coupled with the other characters' convoluted operations, the entire climate of such an "intelligent game strategy" becomes more or less analogous with "luck and predisposed intuition." Tangent over. TL;DR - Fuck you, NGNL. |
| It's natural for a person to deny he's a failure as a human being. That's why he searches for somebody who is more miserable than himself. That's why so much animosity exists on the internet. Those who aren't able to find a more miserable person, turn to the internet and call other people losers, even though they've never met. Just to make themselves feel superior. isn't that pathetic? There's a sense of security that comes from speaking badly of someone else. But that isn't true salvation. — Tatsuhiro Satou YandereTheEmo said: The only thing more pathetic than quoting someone you know nothing about, is quoting yourself. |
| lol, NGNL was never "smart", neither was it ever "supposed to be smart". NGNL was always, from the very beginning, about TROLLING. Nothing more, nothing less. Actually there are no "smart" series at all, since those would be escpacially BORING. It would include complex ideas that the audience would not be able to comprehend, therefore it would be labeled as "boring" and no one would watch it. tl;dr: Real "smart" animes would most likely not be entertaining, that's why such series are not being produced. |
 |
Grey-Zone said: Actually there are no "smart" series at all, since those would be exceptionally BORING. It would include complex ideas that the audience would not be able to comprehend, therefore it would be labeled as "boring" and no one would watch it. tl;dr: Real "smart" animes would most likely not be entertaining, that's why such series are not being produced. Smart =/= complex or hard to understand. Something can be very simple and fun yet smart. |
|
Imaishi said: Grey-Zone said: Actually there are no "smart" series at all, since those would be exceptionally BORING. It would include complex ideas that the audience would not be able to comprehend, therefore it would be labeled as "boring" and no one would watch it. tl;dr: Real "smart" animes would most likely not be entertaining, that's why such series are not being produced. Smart =/= complex or hard to understand. Something can be very simple and fun yet smart. Like what? It usually has to be "simplyfied" so the audience can understand, but that also means that it really can't be considered "smart" anymore. |
|
Grey-Zone said: Not an anime but I can list you a show that is particularly smart and simple: Futurama. It has simple characters, episodic plots, and jokes which appeal to the demographic that desires a mindless comedy but it also has smarter, more intelligent jokes quietly packed in as well to appeal to a more thinking demographic.Like what? It usually has to be "simplyfied" so the audience can understand, but that also means that it really can't be considered "smart" anymore. |
PeenusWeenusCaimJul 29, 2015 2:04 AM
 |
OkayCaim said: Grey-Zone said: Not an anime but I can list you a show that is particularly smart and simple: FuturamaLike what? It usually has to be "simplyfied" so the audience can understand, but that also means that it really can't be considered "smart" anymore. I am obviously talking about stories with a continuous, (more or less serious) storyline and not something that is an "episodic comedy series" in nature. The way the word "smart" is used between those two categories differs to such an amount that a comparison simply makes no sense (i.e. a case of "comparing apples to oranges") |
|
YandereTheEmo said: Red_Tuesday said: It is. It's the only anime that authentically portrays the thought process of one or more savant characters that I've seen. Sure, it's not mature or very deep, but it's authentic. Out of any words one could use to describe NGNL, authentic seems like the complete antithesis of what was presented (...) These feelings become further augmented when dealing with absurdly convoluted and contrived happenings meant purely to bolster such notions of intelligence. (Quote tower snip, leaving the essential) Plot structure has little to do with my assertion from earlier. I'm purely referencing the thought process of the two characters in question. The analytical angle they take at every turn is consistent and logical, even compliant with game theory, and while there are numerous examples of them "skipping" steps in that process, that is out of requirement - it's only a 22 minute episode after all. No matter how out-of-this-world a piece of entertainment may be, there are always elements that can be authentic and well-researched. Character motivation, thought process and personality are some of them, and while it may be hard to explain to a blind man the appearance of the sky, if you can empathize with a character's thought vector (regardless of missing links, as long as the finished pattern remains logically plausible) then certainly it's authentic. That sets NGNL apart from for example Kamisama no Memochou, where the character portrayed as a 'genius' is not shown to be a genius, rather the show informs you of it and expects you to take it at face value. Yes, the actual events are convoluted and contrived, which is why I dismissed the claims of maturity and depth. However, I will not call them ass-pulls. (Most of the time, though there were one or two events I would call ass-pulls) This is because of the characters applying the most logical angle of resolution given their resources, knowledge and intellect at any given time. I think the storyboarders, producers and directors found the sweet spot between authenticity and entertainment value given the material. And that's all one can hope for. |
|
Grey-Zone said: "Obviously"? Your posts didn't imply shit about stories and whether they were continuous or serious. You merely asked for a show that is considered simple yet smart and I rebuttled with a show that is heralded as simple yet smart.I am obviously talking about stories with a continuous, (more or less serious) storyline and not something that is an "episodic comedy series" in nature. The way the word "smart" is used between those two categories differs to such an amount that a comparison simply makes no sense (i.e. a case of "comparing apples to oranges") |
|
| This is LoGH for me so far. Granted, I've only seen 15 episodes, but what I've seen so far isn't encouraging. Most characters besides the main few seem to have stupid and stubborn as their only traits, serving as characterless roadblocks for the 'smart' protagonists to impress. The council meeting in episode 12 is a good example of what I'm talking about. The tactics don't make any sense considering it's in space, as apparently spaceships can't even turn around in the time it takes for a part of another fleet to go from their front to their back. Taking the most important fortress on the enemy side with such a stupidly simple tactic even a child wouldn't fall for doesn't help either. Ill concede it's nice that it doesn't treat the FPA and the Empire as purely good and bad entities, but the stupidly black and white way in which the show portrays people is strangely disappointing for something purported to be so intelligent and epic in scope. It feels like something a child would write about politics and war, rather than an intelligent look at the subject. I expected something like Seirei no Moribito, which treats every person as an actual person with both legitimate and illegitimate fears and wants, with a bigger focus on politics, but what I've gotten so far is a lot more unnuanced than I expected. Am I missing something? |
OkayCaim said: Grey-Zone said: Not an anime but I can list you a show that is particularly smart and simple: FuturamaLike what? It usually has to be "simplyfied" so the audience can understand, but that also means that it really can't be considered "smart" anymore. I will add Boogiepop Phantom as well.Granted the foundation of the story revolves around the supernatural and is episodic as well,it does present you with those subtle themes that can make you think. Yes it has its own share of flaws like lack of characterization of the main cast and lack of resolution of certain plot threads,but it overall does its job at what it aims at. |
 |
OkayCaim said: Grey-Zone said: "Obviously"? Your posts didn't imply shit about stories and whether they were continuous or serious. You merely asked for a show that is considered simple yet smart and I rebuttled with a show that is heralded as simple yet smart.I am obviously talking about stories with a continuous, (more or less serious) storyline and not something that is an "episodic comedy series" in nature. The way the word "smart" is used between those two categories differs to such an amount that a comparison simply makes no sense (i.e. a case of "comparing apples to oranges") You are right, I apologize for not clarifying what I am talking about. Of course "being smart" is something that CAN be achieved, but it's not something that can be easily done in a serious, continuous storyline where you also have to stay consistent with the lore of the franchise and can't fall back on "lol, you don't get it? Just treat it as comedy then". That is even more so problematic if you want make "smart characters" or "smart plans". Many talkabout Death Note being "intelligent", but if you look at what it actually does, it becomes appearent that it's not as "smart" as one would think at first. Series that people think of as having "smart plans" usually revolve around "breaking common sense and being successful with it". It usually comes in combination with at least one other aspect. If we take the example of Death Note, we see: Light is suppoedly "smart", but in the end most of his success is based on his acting skills and having knowledge about the Death Note that others don't have, L is only successful because he has lots of money, (at times) the control over the police as well as being in contact with some high-positioned people of various nations to get special things done, like "experiments" with death row prisoners. Near's plans, escpacially the very last one are mostly not even his own accomplishments, but just the sum of others' accomplishments, one particular person's idiocy (or alternatively being a hidden hypocrite) as well as LOTs and LOTs of luck. Also are people even talking about a series or characters "being smart"? Because it seems more like people are using the word "smart" as a synonym of "good writing" instead. Actually I am not sure myself how a show can REALLY even be "smart" in the first place. Does it refer to the way the story is told (i.e. "good writing", which also applies if it's about satirical content) or does it refer to "intelligent things being done" in the story? |
Grey-ZoneJul 29, 2015 2:49 AM
|
| Cowboy bebop is not mature nor is it intelligent. Its one of those old time anime where the majority of its fanbase were 10 year old kids that love it and thought it was mature. Fast forward to the present and those said kids that are now adults still think its mature. |
keragamming said: Cowboy bebop is not mature nor is it intelligent. Its one of those old time anime where the majority of its fanbase were 10 year old kids that love it and thought it was mature. Fast forward to the present and those said kids that are now adults still think its mature. The keyword you are looking for is "nostalgia", but your explanation is good to show WHY nostalgia has such an effect. Now no one can just handwave it away. |
|
| You know what anime is mature, intelligent and deep? Kitakubu Katsudou Kirouku. |
    |
Catalano said: You know what anime is mature, intelligent and deep? Kitakubu Katsudou Kirouku. Literally the KKK Nice try, white supremacist. |
Kokko said: Catalano said: You know what anime is mature, intelligent and deep? Kitakubu Katsudou Kirouku. Literally the KKK Nice try, white supremacist. OK, the KKK stuff was weird. Thus I recommend NieA under 7. |
|
keragamming said: Cowboy bebop is not mature nor is it intelligent. Its one of those old time anime where the majority of its fanbase were 10 year old kids that love it and thought it was mature. Fast forward to the present and those said kids that are now adults still think its mature. I didn't watch Bebop from start to finish until late 2013 and I still think it's amazing. It's not as acclaimed as it is due to "muh chaldhud" but because it's a well-written show with a memorable cast of characters, pretty nice themes, great directing, and some of the best episodes anime has ever put out. Just because characters aren't dying left and right to make-believe "no1 is sayf" doesn't mean it lacks depth or maturity |
azzuRe said: Opinions. If people finds some anime dark and mature then good for them. Both are multifaceted word, mature could means mature content, its target demographics, its central themes, character portrayal, etc. If we go by everyone definition than probably more than half of anime ever produced is mature. Try asking people who is the hottest babes in anime and see how people slings mud in similar fashion. So true. Imaishi said: other than oregairu - SnK sure it has some great action and awesome music but it's neither dark, mature or smart Shingeki no Kyoujin might be dumb, and I haven't watched enough of it to tell if it is mature, but it is definitely dark. By the way, has anybody actually said that SAO anime is intelligent or mature? (SAO novels are more intelligent, but still don't count as mature, I'd say.) |
| crayon shinchan is more mature than most of anime mentioned in here. |
 "If taking responsibility for a mistake that cannot be undone means death, it's not that hard to die. At least, not as hard as to live on." |
| Instantly thought of Elfen Lied when I saw the thread title. |
 |
Infatuate said: Shinsekai Yori was plain garbage with awful time skips, pretentious homosexualism, 0 development or attachment from my part to the main characters. Don't know why people think it's so "deep", it makes me laugh. I agree with the 0 attachment to main characters, which is a huge letdown for me, even though it may have been "deep". |
| NGNL and Elfen Lied are the series of ass pulls. They are not intelligent at all. |
| Cowboy bebop is far more mature than attack on titan. |
Anime is good, fucking deal with it. |
Red_Tuesday said: Plot structure has little to do with my assertion from earlier. Yes, but character presentation (Key: what I was referring to) has everything to do with it. I'm purely referencing the thought process of the two characters in question. The analytical angle they take at every turn is consistent and logical, even compliant with game theory, and while there are numerous examples of them "skipping" steps in that process, that is out of requirement - it's only a 22 minute episode after all. You're contradicting yourself here. The "analytical angle" of the characters themselves cannot be referred to as "consistent and logical" if we, as the audience, are not provided with ample justification in the 22 minute episodes to verify these claims. Once again, this ties back into presenting character intelligence versus enforcing or presupposing character intelligence. Nowhere do we honestly see how their thought processes seem logical, consistent, or authentic with the actions taken, thus making their actions seem more reliant on rudimentary intuition, Deus ex Machina, and luck. The requirement for showing how a set of characters are savant, intelligent, logical, analytical, and the like, is to present ample evidence through the consistent, reasonable flow of their actions and thought processes, the likes of which should be corroborated with the plot at hand, as to not belie the authenticity of what is presented. Unfortunately, NGNL does no such thing, and once again, expects the audience to just "believe" that such characters are intelligent because of expository references to such traits. That sets NGNL apart from for example Kamisama no Memochou, where the character portrayed as a 'genius' is not shown to be a genius, rather the show informs you of it and expects you to take it at face value. Informing the audience of something and portraying something are inherently different. We learn in Death Note and NGNL from the get-go that the characters are of some upper intelligence, not because it is shown to be true or because of reasonable portrayals of such traits, but because of a few lines of dialogue literally spoonfeeding the information to us, expecting us to, once again, take it at face value. However, this does not an authentic portrayal make. I could, as a content creator, encourage you to believe that my character is compassionate beyond belief, and then demonstrate his cruelty and sociopathy through his actions. As an audience, this would lead you to believe that I, as an author, was either intentionally misleading you, or had no idea how compassion truly worked in active. This is, in a way, very similar to the presentation offered by NGNL. It's easy to "tell" the audience a character is smart, but we aren't inclined to believe that is true until it is shown to us through their actions and thought processes--or at least, we aren't inclined to believe it is authentic. |
| It's natural for a person to deny he's a failure as a human being. That's why he searches for somebody who is more miserable than himself. That's why so much animosity exists on the internet. Those who aren't able to find a more miserable person, turn to the internet and call other people losers, even though they've never met. Just to make themselves feel superior. isn't that pathetic? There's a sense of security that comes from speaking badly of someone else. But that isn't true salvation. — Tatsuhiro Satou YandereTheEmo said: The only thing more pathetic than quoting someone you know nothing about, is quoting yourself. |
Comic_Sans said: This. Just because a show has violence, nudity and/or other 'deep' shit slathered all over everything doesn't make it anything more than a cartoon that gives younger kids nightmares. Stop pretending like your hobby is anything different from a child watching Sat morning cartoons. It's not. And that's just fine. Embrace that childish side of you and proudly fap to those animated cartoons. Just preferrably not with those other kids around.Most gore faggotery anime that try to be mature and deep but in the end just end being pretentious and tryhard Yes, I am also looking at you, Tokyo Phoul, SnK and Akame ga Kill |
| The butthurt is strong in this thread. A very predictable reaction guys. Take as many jab as you want on snk if that makes you feel any better. |
keragammingJul 29, 2015 10:17 AM
keragamming said: The butthurt is strong in this thread. A very predictable reaction guys. Take as many jab as you want on snk if that makes you feel any better. Do you expect people to discuss seriously about the size of your bait? |
keragamming said: The butthurt is strong in this thread. A very predictable reaction guys. Take as many jab as you want on snk if that makes you feel any better.  |
 Nico- said: Conversations with people pinging/quoting me to argue about some old post I wrote years ago will not be entertained@Comic_Sans oh no y arnt ppl dieing i need more ppl dieing rly gud plot avansement jus liek tokyo ghoul if erbudy dies amirite |
keragamming said: The butthurt is strong in this thread. A very predictable reaction guys. Take as many jab as you want on snk if that makes you feel any better. You really think that Squeaky & Kokyujin is the best thing ever, don't you? |
 |
keragamming said: The butthurt is strong in this thread. A very predictable reaction guys. Take as many jab as you want on snk if that makes you feel any better. The butthurt is strong in this thread. A very predictable reaction guys. Take as many jab as you want on cowboy bebop if that makes you feel any better. |
Anime is good, fucking deal with it. |
Comic_Sans said: keragamming said: The butthurt is strong in this thread. A very predictable reaction guys. Take as many jab as you want on snk if that makes you feel any better. :'D A good 10 second laugh from that one :D |
Anime is good, fucking deal with it. |
Working_Designs said: keragamming said: The butthurt is strong in this thread. A very predictable reaction guys. Take as many jab as you want on snk if that makes you feel any better. You really think that Squeaky & Kokyujin is the best thing ever, don't you? You really think futari no prepubescent is the best show ever? |
Anime is good, fucking deal with it. |
More topics from this board
» Waifu War V5 (Anniversary-Edition!) (Round 1) ( 1 2 3 4 5 ... Last Page )TheMinkalex - Sep 28 |
254 |
by Sheol01
»»
47 seconds ago |
|
Poll: » Are you fan of specific anime or general genre ?tchitchouan - 11 hours ago |
19 |
by AllAlone8
»»
2 minutes ago |
|
» Anime you didn't expect to be this confusing?m_alhafidz - 10 hours ago |
10 |
by W3TFT
»»
3 minutes ago |
|
» ☀️ Anime Summer 2025 Male & Female Characters TournamentISeeLifePeople - Oct 5 |
32 |
by Supersonic_Pain
»»
4 minutes ago |
|
» what do you think about anime elitism and which anime would fit here? ( 1 2 )selfawarecorpse - Oct 7 |
52 |
by TheInhuman404
»»
7 minutes ago |