| I have a problem with spotting symbolism in anime. I'm just not very good at it. I'll recommend some shows that I know (Or have heard) have symbolism in them. Haibane Renmei (Especially want to know how you see symbolism) Serial Experiments Lain (Especially want to know how you see symbolism) Rahxephon Revolutionary Girl Utena (I couldn't find any at all in this series. I'm apparently a real novice.) Akira Mawaru Penguindrum Jin-Roh: Wolf Brigade Kara no Kyoukai (<-- Apparently) Kino no Tabi Ghost in the Shell (Series) Hajime no Ippo (.... Just kidding.) How do you know - especially in a case like Mawaru Penguindrum - that there's symbolism in the first place (Don't say "Because the director's always been like that" What about Utena then?), and even when it's obvious, how do you know what to look up and how to understand it? Do a lot of people who watch anime take college classes on symbolism? Because I need to get an MBA before I can waste my time on that, lol. I know that some websites have dissected shows, like Haibane Renmei and Rahxephon to point out all of its symbollism ect. ect. But how do you know you're not just making it up? How did the author of the site know before hand? Do you need a lot of knowledge on that particular topic? Do you need to be a scholar? Than I feel like I wasted my time watching it before I could understand it, and I feel like I may have inappropriately rated it (Especially in the case of Serial Experiments Lain). Please let me know. Despite watching and understanding a lot of intelligent anime, I still find it hard to see symbolism. I have a feeling I would enjoy some series more if I did understand the symbolism it was trying to covey. Keep pursuing your dreams! ~ Wynn |
KuandohanSep 7, 2013 9:44 PM
| My brother and I compose classical and modern music, please click the link below if you're interested. http://thesearethetwins.wordpress.com/ Please check out my profile to see what anime I recommend. Keep pursuing your dreams! ~ Wynn |
| Sorry man, but those are pretty shitty anime, they have no symbolism |
| YOKO ONO |
Jaguer_R said: Sorry man, but those are pretty shitty anime, they have no symbolism That's all based on opinion. You would have to change the minds of a lot of people in order for this opinion to flourish. Could you please point out what exactly is shitty about these anime? Keep pursuing your dreams! ~ Wynn |
| My brother and I compose classical and modern music, please click the link below if you're interested. http://thesearethetwins.wordpress.com/ Please check out my profile to see what anime I recommend. Keep pursuing your dreams! ~ Wynn |
| Symbolism is very relative, it can exist whether the creator intended it or not. Whenever I see something distinct I ask myself "does X's existence resemble or relate to any themes in this story?" For example, the birds in the sky are symbolic to travelers wandering about freely in Kino no Tabi. |
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| You just know. Jk. Most of the time it was actually as clear as day as how the producer deliberately use it as 'irrelevant' things in a show. It meant to tease our curiosity, or at least you will notice something odd about it. Then you will ponder it meanings, and what it represents. For example in SELain is how they named each episode by Layers. As a computer science freshman I was excited as hell when I first watch the anime in the early 2000's. At least in networking terms it reminds me of OSI layers and other prototypes in OS or application design, it refers to models that separates between user applications and physical world representations of information. For Mawaru Penguindrum, the symbolism would slaps you straight at the anime opening the second time you watched it (after you finished the series). |
azzuReSep 7, 2013 10:40 PM
| The most important things in life is the people that you care about |
| There's really no "method" for spotting symbolism. And you certainly don't need a degree in anything. You've seen Death Note and Phantom: Requiem for the Phantom. I want to see if you can point out any symbolism from these videos. Any. (This should be incredibly easy). |
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| Well Neon Genesis Evangelion +Rebuild movies managed to throw in a lot of religious symbolism. Examples: http://25.media.tumblr.com/880f97a15cdee5d62163c5a85457f508/tumblr_meqyhlt6Ct1riyvejo1_500.gif http://images.wikia.com/evangelion/images/3/3a/7th_Angel_Cross_Explosion.png Symbolism is usually easy to find, even if it's vocal symbolism. Like in Guilty Crown with the whole 'Adam and Eve' thing. |
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MEanimaniac1 said: Well Neon Genesis Evangelion +Rebuild movies managed to throw in a lot of religious symbolism. Examples: http://25.media.tumblr.com/880f97a15cdee5d62163c5a85457f508/tumblr_meqyhlt6Ct1riyvejo1_500.gif http://images.wikia.com/evangelion/images/3/3a/7th_Angel_Cross_Explosion.png Symbolism is usually easy to find, even if it's vocal symbolism. Like in Guilty Crown with the whole 'Adam and Eve' thing. The thing about NGE's symbolism, while I can't source it, is said to have been done more for cool factor. |
| Read a lot. A lot of symbols that you see are actually allusions to famous works of art or to historical events/figures. Pay attention to little things. Is that fire the protagonist is staring into just a fire, or a symbol for the raging inferno that is his rage? |
| Let's go bowling. |
| Sometimes symbolism is pretty blatant, and sometimes it is so ambiguous that fans have different interpretations of its message. For Utena specifically, I would recommend reading some of the essays at Ohtori.nu to get you started. (I'm pretty sure there are other good sites for this as well, but that is the one I remember off the top of my head.) Also, if you're curious about the symbolism of a series, or how others have interpreted a particular scene/image, google it. Many people share their insights in essays, blog posts, etc. They're really not hard to find. As for how to see it yourself... obviously not all series are heavy in symbolism. But I would say that if you notice repetitive imagery, an unusual focus on objects or animals, or even song lyrics that seem to have some relevance to the characters/plot, there is probably intended symbolism. What it means may be explained by the symbol's generally accepted cultural meaning, its relation to what is currently happening in the plot, and/or what the character is experiencing emotionally. I enjoy symbolism. I think it can add to a story visually and emotionally, and I enjoy reading insights from other fans. But as a general rule, I consider a series too dependent on symbolism to convey the story to be weak. Symbolism is merely one element of a story; it should not be expected to carry a series on its own. I think it is worthwhile to look deeper into a story, but if it is impossible to understand without understanding the symbolism, it's probably just not a very good story. |
| Haganai has symbolism , too. The star , the moon , the observator , the (night) hawk(dunno , a hawk specific for Japan) , the sunny sky . These symbols interact as you'd expect. |
| "Love is a drug to our brain , it stops the thinking function and when you realize it wether you acomplish it or not you'll enter in one of the 3 withdrawal states : happy , sad or anger. Once this drug gets hold of you you'd better be prepaired beforehand." - Me |
| There's plenty of simbolism in Haibane Renmei but I can't think of something specific right now. And I would need to re-watch it to give you a proper response. |
| Well, obviously first you need to be familiar with the symbols used. Aside from that, it's just a matter of staying alert to the visuals while watching the anime to raise the chances that the symbolism will "click" for you. I've found this just gets easier with experience. I personally don't always spot it the first time I watch something, particularly if my eyes are busy with subtitles. |
| Dunno about symbolism much except for stuff I read about Mawarum's interpretation. But stuff like Last Exile's episode name are come from chess are kinda neat. More here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Last_Exile_episodes |
| Nah, i dont think sharing anime ratings in signature is cool thing. Here, stare at this pointless signature instead. |
| If my brain wants to think of every single detail in what I watch I might spot the symbolism portrayed to me. However, imo, good symbolism should not represent what the writer/director wants to show in a very deep way without saying it first in some sort of way. Symbolism should be there to be understood and give a sense of satisfaction and enhance the feelings given to you by a certain scene but not having understanding it as a necessity. |
| So, What do you think is on the other side? |
| It can be a matter or knowledge, or it can be completely subjective. If you read a lot, you will notice more as pretty much every human construct (whether it be shapes, numbers, letters etc.) is relative to one another. As someone rightly explained, you might interpret something in way that wasn't even intended by the author. I remember towards the end of Code Geass, Lelouche started to wear those strange Egyptian looking occult robes with the Eye of Horus on his hat, I've seen a few funny threads talking about Illuminati theories because of this. |
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MitchD said: It can be a matter or knowledge, or it can be completely subjective. If you read a lot, you will notice more as pretty much every human construct (whether it be shapes, numbers, letters etc.) is relative to one another. As someone rightly explained, you might interpret something in way that wasn't even intended by the author. I remember towards the end of Code Geass, Lelouche started to wear those strange Egyptian looking occult robes with the Eye of Horus on his hat, I've seen a few funny threads talking about Illuminati theories because of this. You cant detect symbols without knowledge. When Haganai finished airing I was thinking "Hmmmm.....we have characters that theyr names mean or refer to the moon , star , mountain hawk-eagle , scientist(observator) and a sunny sky ." I tried to create an image and then it hit me , the image fits perfectly . The moon who watches over the mountain-hawk-eagle , the star which shines brighter even thou' its far away , the sunny sky which eclipses the moon and , finally , the scientist(observer) which studies and helps the hawk survive things he cannot change alone. Funny , isnt it? If you saw the anime and understood it you can see something funny in what I've said , a really coincidental thing. P.S: We also have names which make a reference to trees . Yukimura and Sena's family name. Which is funny because hawks build a nest on trees where they lay one egg , the jap one. |
FluffyFleshSep 8, 2013 1:25 AM
| "Love is a drug to our brain , it stops the thinking function and when you realize it wether you acomplish it or not you'll enter in one of the 3 withdrawal states : happy , sad or anger. Once this drug gets hold of you you'd better be prepaired beforehand." - Me |
| You need to educate yourself to notice it simple as that |
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| Sometimes they're straight up references, like the religious stuff in Evangelion. Sometimes they're themes and motifs that keep popping up subtly, like Madoka Magica throwing in various parts from Goethe's Faust. Do they actually mean anything? Completely depends on interpretation, authorial intent, how they function in the specific anime, blah blah blah. I'd say just watch anime and whenever you see something that you think is symbolism, look it up on Wikipedia or something to get a quick understanding of what it means. It might lead to a better understanding of what the anime is trying to say, or perhaps the writers are just throwing crap in arbitrarily and you'd be able call them out on it. It's nice to read more on religions/books/history/etc, but I think that seeing them used in other works creates this context to better understand both the anime and the symbolic reference. That and laziness. |
| I dont think there is a way to learn how to interpret sybolysm and i think thats okay so. One thing I really like about symbolism is that it leaves room for your own interpretation. For example Penguindrum As you see many different ways to interpret it, and the way to go about is is pretty simple. You just have to get imaginative, a bit of knowledge in some themes is sometimes necessary but not often in my opinion. |
| There may be different interpretations for what a symbol in show means, but some symbols are universal like skulls almost always represent death and roses often represent love and beauty. Some are not so easy to find though, sometimes a symbol may be unique to that particular show and you need to interpret the meaning by yourself. They might tell you what the symbol means, but sometimes they won't. You just need to trust your instinct and make rational decisions to try and figure out what a symbol might mean. Lastly you usually don't need to understand symbolism to enjoy a show. Its just an extra layer to give a show more depth and meaning. |
 "The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." -Friedrich Nietzsche |
| Thank you very much everyone for the great answers! I'll definitely try and read more books than. :P I intentionally left out Evangelion because I actually read up a lot on it and found out that the symbolism was really just what Hideki Anno thought was interesting at the time, it was arbitrary. If you guys have any unique shows that you think are deep in symbolism (Particularly philosophy) or great thinking shows, please recommend them! I'd hate to think that I already have seen all of the important shows. :( P.S. Thanks for not shooting this post down like the first commenter. Keep pursuing your dreams! ~ Wynn |
| My brother and I compose classical and modern music, please click the link below if you're interested. http://thesearethetwins.wordpress.com/ Please check out my profile to see what anime I recommend. Keep pursuing your dreams! ~ Wynn |
| Hajime no Ippo was a good anime |
| ...Nothing is symbolic. So is everything. Everything means everything else, and it means nothing at all, essentially. Basically, don't worry about symbolism. If you have to understand the symbolism to enjoy something, then it's shit anyway. Otherwise, it's just a fun activity. I can bet you most of the "symbolism" in most things are unintentional, people will read into anything. I've had people read my work and say "It's a very nice social critique about love and government", truth be told, I was just writing a love story with no mind for any symbolism. Maybe read about "Death of the author". Edit: Also, if I want to look smart, I act like that was the plan all along. I'm very deep like that. Any intentional symbolism I use is very vague and not tied to anything, like making character names from Latin that translate to a two word description. |
Mogu-samaSep 8, 2013 9:36 AM
| Want to talk? Club! "Would you like an anti-psychotic?" *Bonus points if you leave a comment about the meaning of my signature.* |
Slayermaster said: ...Nothing is symbolic. So is everything. Everything means everything else, and it means nothing at all, essentially. Basically, don't worry about symbolism. If you have to understand the symbolism to enjoy something, then it's shit anyway. And here you are , trying to confuse him. |
| "Love is a drug to our brain , it stops the thinking function and when you realize it wether you acomplish it or not you'll enter in one of the 3 withdrawal states : happy , sad or anger. Once this drug gets hold of you you'd better be prepaired beforehand." - Me |
Shocked said: It might lead to a better understanding of what the anime is trying to say, or perhaps the writers are just throwing crap in arbitrarily and you'd be able call them out on it. If most people can't understand what you are trying to say by the end of your story, you've fucked up. It's not even being "too deep", it's just being shit at your job. |
| Want to talk? Club! "Would you like an anti-psychotic?" *Bonus points if you leave a comment about the meaning of my signature.* |
Slayermaster said: Shocked said: It might lead to a better understanding of what the anime is trying to say, or perhaps the writers are just throwing crap in arbitrarily and you'd be able call them out on it. If most people can't understand what you are trying to say by the end of your story, you've fucked up. It's not even being "too deep", it's just being shit at your job. Or they are just stupid . That's always the best explanation . If there are people that understood then those who didnt either are just watching it without paying attention or they are dumb. |
| "Love is a drug to our brain , it stops the thinking function and when you realize it wether you acomplish it or not you'll enter in one of the 3 withdrawal states : happy , sad or anger. Once this drug gets hold of you you'd better be prepaired beforehand." - Me |
FluffyFlesh said: Slayermaster said: Shocked said: It might lead to a better understanding of what the anime is trying to say, or perhaps the writers are just throwing crap in arbitrarily and you'd be able call them out on it. If most people can't understand what you are trying to say by the end of your story, you've fucked up. It's not even being "too deep", it's just being shit at your job. Or they are just stupid . That's always the best explanation . If there are people that understood then those who didnt either are just watching it without paying attention or they are dumb. Of course. But I say most people. Which assumes that we are not including stupid people. |
| Want to talk? Club! "Would you like an anti-psychotic?" *Bonus points if you leave a comment about the meaning of my signature.* |
| If you have to ask what it symbolizes, then it didn't symbolyze anything. |
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Slayermaster said: Shocked said: It might lead to a better understanding of what the anime is trying to say, or perhaps the writers are just throwing crap in arbitrarily and you'd be able call them out on it. If most people can't understand what you are trying to say by the end of your story, you've fucked up. It's not even being "too deep", it's just being shit at your job. Philip K. Dick wouldn't agree with ya. |
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| You basically have to be versed in it. Symbolism requires the symbol to be acknowledged as meaning whatever it's supposed to communicate...so just familiarity honestly. Every media is self-referential and utilizes these known symbols for different purposes, be it in your face or the most subtle thing. |
| Every symbol has a meaning in a countries culture .Either way the author decides what's the symbols meaning . A Tree , for example , can represent stability , a shelter . The star and the moon have a special meaning in japs culture , I forgot the source , damn it I must search for it again to say the exact meaning...... |
| "Love is a drug to our brain , it stops the thinking function and when you realize it wether you acomplish it or not you'll enter in one of the 3 withdrawal states : happy , sad or anger. Once this drug gets hold of you you'd better be prepaired beforehand." - Me |
| I'm actually not taking it as seriously as you may think I am TarexTherex, It just seems like it would have been more enjoyable if I did get the symbolism (Mainly in Utena, Serial Experiments Lain and Haibane Remei.) But I don't force myself when I can't see it. I do enjoy the story from face value, and my score usually represents that (Except with Serial Experiments Lain, I just didn't like that show). Thank you very much for you and everyone's helpful responses! GGNoodles said: Hajime no Ippo was a good anime Yes it is, I love it too. I can't wait for the new series to come out! FluffyFlesh said: Slayermaster said: Shocked said: It might lead to a better understanding of what the anime is trying to say, or perhaps the writers are just throwing crap in arbitrarily and you'd be able call them out on it. If most people can't understand what you are trying to say by the end of your story, you've fucked up. It's not even being "too deep", it's just being shit at your job. Or they are just stupid . That's always the best explanation . If there are people that understood then those who didnt either are just watching it without paying attention or they are dumb. So you're calling me stupid, huh? lol Keep pursuing your dreams! ~ Wynn |
KuandohanSep 8, 2013 2:27 PM
| My brother and I compose classical and modern music, please click the link below if you're interested. http://thesearethetwins.wordpress.com/ Please check out my profile to see what anime I recommend. Keep pursuing your dreams! ~ Wynn |
| I think that is the producer intention from the first place. They use symbolism as a mean to encapsulate their ideas and concept that would take too much of screen time to explain. People would get bored listening to long explanation (on par with DBZ long sermon in battle). If you want to know what symbolism is intended by the author you could try buying some artbook from the anime. Usually they put lengthy info on it (and that's one of the reason why people buy it). |
| The most important things in life is the people that you care about |
So you're calling me stupid, huh? lol Nope . I didnt even knew you dont get some anime . Anyway , how do you call someone that cant understand something? And how do you call someone who dont understand something? Please , just dont give me sugarcoat words or explanations. |
| "Love is a drug to our brain , it stops the thinking function and when you realize it wether you acomplish it or not you'll enter in one of the 3 withdrawal states : happy , sad or anger. Once this drug gets hold of you you'd better be prepaired beforehand." - Me |
Kuandohan said: I have a problem with spotting symbolism in anime. I'm just not very good at it. Revolutionary Girl Utena (I couldn't find any at all in this series. I'm apparently a real novice.) The series is about a girl that pulls out a sword from another while in suggestive poses, are you sure you couldn't spot any thing that might be symbolic at all? Watch Adolescence of Revolution, a retelling of Utena that doesn't even bother about being subtle. |
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yazio said: Kuandohan said: I have a problem with spotting symbolism in anime. I'm just not very good at it. Revolutionary Girl Utena (I couldn't find any at all in this series. I'm apparently a real novice.) The series is about a girl that pulls out a sword from another while in suggestive poses, are you sure you couldn't spot any thing that might be symbolic at all? Watch Adolescence of Revolution, a retelling of Utena that doesn't even bother about being subtle. Is that what makes the show meaningful? I did get those bits of symbolism, but does it really make the show so "Deep"? Or at least that's what I keep hearing people say about it. It was definitely an interesting show though. Thank you very much for all of you're answers! FluffyFlesh, you don't need to take my joke so seriously. Keep pursuing your dreams! ~ Wynn |
| My brother and I compose classical and modern music, please click the link below if you're interested. http://thesearethetwins.wordpress.com/ Please check out my profile to see what anime I recommend. Keep pursuing your dreams! ~ Wynn |
Kuandohan said: Is that what makes the show meaningful? I did get those bits of symbolism, but does it really make the show so "Deep"? Of course not. The retelling of a fairytale, parallels to adolescence, dualism of the 3 main characters, the characterization, etc. are what make the show deep. I just picked the most obvious symbolism in the series. |
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| Symbolism is found in literature anyway , you wont find a deep meaning of symbolism in games or manga adaptations. A red rose is a symbol , for instance. Oh , sorry , in that day I was hit by several intelligent creatures from MAL and a game that I was playing. |
| "Love is a drug to our brain , it stops the thinking function and when you realize it wether you acomplish it or not you'll enter in one of the 3 withdrawal states : happy , sad or anger. Once this drug gets hold of you you'd better be prepaired beforehand." - Me |
yazio said: Kuandohan said: I have a problem with spotting symbolism in anime. I'm just not very good at it. Revolutionary Girl Utena (I couldn't find any at all in this series. I'm apparently a real novice.) The series is about a girl that pulls out a sword from another while in suggestive poses, are you sure you couldn't spot any thing that might be symbolic at all? Watch Adolescence of Revolution, a retelling of Utena that doesn't even bother about being subtle. After seeing the movie, you're definitely right about the in your face symbolism. I understand that it's not that I didn't get the show. It's just not my kind of show, that's all. Keep pursuing your dreams! ~ Wynn |
| My brother and I compose classical and modern music, please click the link below if you're interested. http://thesearethetwins.wordpress.com/ Please check out my profile to see what anime I recommend. Keep pursuing your dreams! ~ Wynn |
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