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| Great ep. Things are really picking up now. Man, <3 all the boob grabs and cleavage lol. Judging from this thread it seems they're moving a different direction than the manga? That could make a season 2 unlikely >< |
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| Although rape is overused as an abuse trope... It looks more like torture. Also the title containing Otome (i.e. maiden) pretty much implies virginity. |
bla bla bla The endless debate between fans and haters. At one point, after spending a lot of time on MAL, you just realize it's totally pointless.Niko-kun said: On MAL, everyone who has used the lame rating system becomes a critic and an intellectual by default, haven't you heard? |
| I think the way for the two Yuukos to reintegrate is for Teichi to see what happened to her 60 years ago and still accept and love her. Splitting your personality is one of the ways that victims of abuse (and I think we can probably agree that human sacrifice of an innocent girl is pretty abusive) cope with the trauma. Being in a relationship with a victim of abuse is not for the faint of heart, since you end up having to help them deal with it for a very long time. |
Please don't feed the trolls! In my next life I want to collide at the corner with the cute transfer student carrying a piece of toast in her mouth...rodac |
| Oh man! that ending was amazing. i was so into this episode. cant wait for the next episode |
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wakka9ca said: Then again, this is the title of the manga and this is actually going beyond the manga (because they don't plan a sequel and don't want to end with a non-ending is my guess).Although rape is overused as an abuse trope... It looks more like torture. Also the title containing Otome (i.e. maiden) pretty much implies virginity. |
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| Is it just me or this episode was the most awkward one so far not that the other ones are not.Yuuko suddenly slapping kirie was so....what to so,annoying?Niiya's reaction was even more annoying.Yuuko fell in water all of a sudden made me laugh but it still was awkward. |
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fishergirl16 said: I honestly feel really bad for Shadow Yuuko. She has the right to merge with Yuuko again, because Yuuko is just denying reality and being a coward by trying to stay 'pure'. The only way she'll grow is if she would keep her memories. Yuuko is stupid. I'm seriously on Shadow Yuuko's side. And I'm seriously on board with you. |
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KaitoDash said: If they merge, Shadow Yuuko will cease to exist... but that's better than existing on the sadness of othersfishergirl16 said: I honestly feel really bad for Shadow Yuuko. She has the right to merge with Yuuko again, because Yuuko is just denying reality and being a coward by trying to stay 'pure'. The only way she'll grow is if she would keep her memories. Yuuko is stupid. I'm seriously on Shadow Yuuko's side. And I'm seriously on board with you. |
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fishergirl16 said: hey... that sound exactly like me. No wonder I am still virgin ..I honestly feel really bad for Shadow Yuuko. She has the right to merge with Yuuko again, because Yuuko is just denying reality and being a coward by trying to stay 'pure'. The only way she'll grow is if she would keep her memories. . |
Monad said: Another lovely episode. I really like this anime. I think our main guy is acting wrong. He shouldn't push dark Yuuko away. If he really loves Yuuko then he will accept everything about her. If he accepts the dark Yuuko then Yuuko can stop be afraid of accepting her also and would be finaly able to gain her memories and face her past. InfiniteDestiny said: Magicturbo said: InfiniteDestiny said: abaanda said: are these ppl raping yuko in the flashback?? i fkin hope not They better not be, since to change that from the manga (where she wasn't) would be a unneeded change, they already did that in Mirai Nikki, there is no point in adding a rape scene T_T Thanks for discussing the manga beyond this episode V_V... that spoiled some of what I thought the memories could be I said it because its not going to be in the memories....all of this is new material, this episode included; tho i suppose some people like you still feel that is spoiling, so i'll just put spoiler tags in the future, my bad. It doesn't matter if the anime is going a different way(which in the specific subject it might not). Someone might want to read the manga after seeing the anime(like me for example) and you spoiled it. Now i know what NOT to expect while reading new events in the manga that i haven't met in the anime. Why should my manga assumption fun be reduced because you where an ass and spoiled things of the manga? Think a little would you? I'm pointing this out because I think it might calm down some upset users,I'm not doing it to defend InfiniteDestiny, who upset you guys. That said, as far as I (Someone who has not read the manga yet) can tell from spoilers I've seen and people I've spoken to here and there- if it wasn't confirmed or denied in the manga then it might very well NOT be an "unneeded change" (As I stated before around page 1 or 2 of this thread)... It was careless of that user to post it. No matter how upsetting the prospect of the situation in-anime might be. I have not heard of the author confirming or denying this is what happened so in actuality- that spoiler does not really state what isn't in there as the anime has now progressed further than the manga. For all I know the author might have approved it, or be working very closely with the studio. Until otherwise said I think people should calm down. And yes, it's an upsetting situation if that's what happened to Yuuko- however as far as I know it wasn't confirmed or denied and also those flash backs might have shown something else entirely (Even though they gave most viewers the same impression). |
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kyled00m said: KaitoDash said: If they merge, Shadow Yuuko will cease to exist... but that's better than existing on the sadness of othersfishergirl16 said: I honestly feel really bad for Shadow Yuuko. She has the right to merge with Yuuko again, because Yuuko is just denying reality and being a coward by trying to stay 'pure'. The only way she'll grow is if she would keep her memories. Yuuko is stupid. I'm seriously on Shadow Yuuko's side. And I'm seriously on board with you. I feel bad for her also- however I know how Yuuko felt to some extent, desiring someone or something to take painful memories away is a very compelling thought for most people I know (Including me) so I think I can sympathize with them both actually. |
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windeen-windy said: You're missing the worst part about what Yuuko experienced..kyled00m said: KaitoDash said: If they merge, Shadow Yuuko will cease to exist... but that's better than existing on the sadness of othersfishergirl16 said: I honestly feel really bad for Shadow Yuuko. She has the right to merge with Yuuko again, because Yuuko is just denying reality and being a coward by trying to stay 'pure'. The only way she'll grow is if she would keep her memories. Yuuko is stupid. I'm seriously on Shadow Yuuko's side. And I'm seriously on board with you. I feel bad for her also- however I know how Yuuko felt to some extent, desiring someone or something to take painful memories away is a very compelling thought for most people I know (Including me) so I think I can sympathize with them both actually. She was a girl from a well-to-do family (because Kirie's grandma owns the school or something like that it shows...) and she had a broken leg and was pushed or forced into taking the position as a human sacrifice to a deity she may or not have cared for to prevent mass death? (see memorial stone) With a broken leg, she couldn't really climb the stairs and she was imprisoned there at the shrine... she didn't get to kill herself and was alone in a dark place and died to hunger while suffering from her broken leg all together... There's more from what we've seen but it's yet to be fully told... If you want to say Ghost Yuuko is bad for forsaking her memories, that's one thing... but they are memories of true suffering... They'd have a major impact how she sees others and anyone who learns of them will have a major change in how they treat her, one way or another... |
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windeen-windy said: I have not heard of the author confirming or denying this is what happened so in actuality- It wouldn't be very helpful for the continued publication of the manga if the anime were to reveal major spoilers long before the source reached that point. The manga also seems to be developing in a different direction, including the behavior of the main characters, but we'll have to wait and see. It doesn't resemble the manga very much at the moment. I'm betting that the anime studio just wanted to wrap up the story in one season as nowadays few studios seem to commit themselves to longer series. In the worst scenario they'll completely diverge from the source as Kuroshitsuji did (for the worse) should they decide to go for a second season. |
MatthesJun 5, 2012 11:35 AM
| I just got back my old Laser Disc player from the repair shop and tested it out with episode 6 of the original El Hazard OAV series from something like 17 years ago. Sure enough, there is the scene where Makoto stops Ilfurita from killing off Shira Shira by jumping at Ilfurita, grabbing her around the waist, burying his face in between her ample boobs, and going back in time in Ilfurita's memories... I wonder if any members of the Dusk Maiden animation team were member of the El Hazard team at AIC way back then, or if it's just a case of them being familiar with it... LOL BTW - the original El Hazard OAV series remains one of my all time favourite anime series. BTW II - come to think of it, what is harder to love, a ghost or a near-immortal killer robot? |
windeen-windy said: kyled00m said: KaitoDash said: If they merge, Shadow Yuuko will cease to exist... but that's better than existing on the sadness of othersfishergirl16 said: I honestly feel really bad for Shadow Yuuko. She has the right to merge with Yuuko again, because Yuuko is just denying reality and being a coward by trying to stay 'pure'. The only way she'll grow is if she would keep her memories. Yuuko is stupid. I'm seriously on Shadow Yuuko's side. And I'm seriously on board with you. I feel bad for her also- however I know how Yuuko felt to some extent, desiring someone or something to take painful memories away is a very compelling thought for most people I know (Including me) so I think I can sympathize with them both actually. Yeah, you can imagine the loneliness and sadness of being invisible for 60 years. The original instance of her death also must be traumatic and painful. On top of it you finally meet someone that can see you and that person you like very much. But while your desperate to cling onto to him, his classmates are purposely or inadvertently blocking you. While normal people wouldn't think that much of it, for someone like Yuuko, who is incredibly lonely, it must get intense fears of jealousy. Now with all that dark emotion building up year after year wouldn't you want to discard it all? This is why I feel sympathy for both entities of Yuuko and realize they're one in the same. They're suffering from some type of split personality disorder. |
CirrisJun 5, 2012 4:26 PM
Cirris said: Yeah, you can imagine the loneliness and sadness of being invisible for 60 years. The original instance of her death also must be traumatic and painful. Yuuko does not perceive time as living people do and she never felt lonely before she met Teiichi, that's something the anime failed to convey but which is repeatedly pointed out in the manga. She also does not remember the circumstances of her death as that is the whole point of the Shadow Yuuko plot so it can't really bother her. The anime treads now in dangerous waters by warping the characters' personalities to something that at author never intended them to be. And as usual I'm not very happy when anime writers take their liberties with the plot and characters. |
ErunnoToo said: She doesn't feel the passage of time or loneliness because when she does, those feelings are shifted to Shadow Yuuko... Since Shadow Yuuko is the embodiment of Ghost Yuuko's memories & emotions, she is technically feeling all those things... Jealousy is the feeling of having something taken from you and being stranded alone so she is feeling lonely as long as she has memories of anyone she considers special, be it a friend or something more.Cirris said: Yeah, you can imagine the loneliness and sadness of being invisible for 60 years. The original instance of her death also must be traumatic and painful. Yuuko does not perceive time as living people do and she never felt lonely before she met Teiichi, that's something the anime failed to convey but which is repeatedly pointed out in the manga. She also does not remember the circumstances of her death as that is the whole point of the Shadow Yuuko plot so it can't really bother her. The anime treads now in dangerous waters by warping the characters' personalities to something that at author never intended them to be. And as usual I'm not very happy when anime writers take their liberties with the plot and characters. Whether you want to accept it or not, she was lonely once she was left at the shrine for dead. She shut off her emotions to free herself from the loneliness and only recently in the anime has she re-acquired those emotions because of Teiichi. |
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| So... why did that idiot try to help her rum from the memories they so desperately tried to retrieve? Pretty stupid episode in my opinion. Basically, it would be just her memories and emotions returning to here they belong. Why do they make the scene appear so dramatic? It almost seems like Shadow Yuuko was the villain and Yuuko the victim when it's just the other way round... |
animehobbit said: Neither is the villain.. Everyone runs from bad memories after all, always trying to escape them and putting the blame on others... it's human nature. Teiichi understands that Shadow is Ghost's memories but it's complicated... very very complicated.So... why did that idiot try to help her rum from the memories they so desperately tried to retrieve? Pretty stupid episode in my opinion. Basically, it would be just her memories and emotions returning to here they belong. Why do they make the scene appear so dramatic? It almost seems like Shadow Yuuko was the villain and Yuuko the victim when it's just the other way round... |
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kyled00m said: windeen-windy said: You're missing the worst part about what Yuuko experienced..kyled00m said: KaitoDash said: If they merge, Shadow Yuuko will cease to exist... but that's better than existing on the sadness of othersfishergirl16 said: I honestly feel really bad for Shadow Yuuko. She has the right to merge with Yuuko again, because Yuuko is just denying reality and being a coward by trying to stay 'pure'. The only way she'll grow is if she would keep her memories. Yuuko is stupid. I'm seriously on Shadow Yuuko's side. And I'm seriously on board with you. I feel bad for her also- however I know how Yuuko felt to some extent, desiring someone or something to take painful memories away is a very compelling thought for most people I know (Including me) so I think I can sympathize with them both actually. She was a girl from a well-to-do family (because Kirie's grandma owns the school or something like that it shows...) and she had a broken leg and was pushed or forced into taking the position as a human sacrifice to a deity she may or not have cared for to prevent mass death? (see memorial stone) With a broken leg, she couldn't really climb the stairs and she was imprisoned there at the shrine... she didn't get to kill herself and was alone in a dark place and died to hunger while suffering from her broken leg all together... There's more from what we've seen but it's yet to be fully told... If you want to say Ghost Yuuko is bad for forsaking her memories, that's one thing... but they are memories of true suffering... They'd have a major impact how she sees others and anyone who learns of them will have a major change in how they treat her, one way or another... I didn't say she was bad- I just said I can understand the desire to rid oneself of those painful memories. I have PTSD (Probably TMI but whatever- not trying to brag, just explain) from past serious traumas when I was in school actually; they effect me every day, effect how I react to people in person and even on MAL and other places on the net. It would have been great to have been able to purge myself of those memories. But- I can put myself in Shadow Yuuko's place too to some extent as someone who has lived with those painful things. So I can understand her wanting freedom of the hatred and pain and sadness. When you have someone with you to help you through things it makes it a bit more tolerable. Sometimes anyway. I didn't mean one Yuuko was good and the other was bad. Just that I can somewhat understand the POV from both of them and I can't really blame either of them for what they want. |
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ErunnoToo said: windeen-windy said: I have not heard of the author confirming or denying this is what happened so in actuality- It wouldn't be very helpful for the continued publication of the manga if the anime were to reveal major spoilers long before the source reached that point. The manga also seems to be developing in a different direction, including the behavior of the main characters, but we'll have to wait and see. It doesn't resemble the manga very much at the moment. But no one would know if they were manga spoilers until the manga got there. However I do understand where your coming from with those points. |
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kyled00m said: ErunnoToo said: She doesn't feel the passage of time or loneliness because when she does, those feelings are shifted to Shadow Yuuko... Since Shadow Yuuko is the embodiment of Ghost Yuuko's memories & emotions, she is technically feeling all those things... Jealousy is the feeling of having something taken from you and being stranded alone so she is feeling lonely as long as she has memories of anyone she considers special, be it a friend or something more.Cirris said: Yeah, you can imagine the loneliness and sadness of being invisible for 60 years. The original instance of her death also must be traumatic and painful. Yuuko does not perceive time as living people do and she never felt lonely before she met Teiichi, that's something the anime failed to convey but which is repeatedly pointed out in the manga. She also does not remember the circumstances of her death as that is the whole point of the Shadow Yuuko plot so it can't really bother her. The anime treads now in dangerous waters by warping the characters' personalities to something that at author never intended them to be. And as usual I'm not very happy when anime writers take their liberties with the plot and characters. Whether you want to accept it or not, she was lonely once she was left at the shrine for dead. She shut off her emotions to free herself from the loneliness and only recently in the anime has she re-acquired those emotions because of Teiichi. I agree with you there kyled00m- she still felt them, even if she doesn't remember it. |
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| That was some heavy stuff in the flashback, I hope some of it is not what I think it is... A very good episode with a fine balance between the funny and the serious moments. Can hardly wait for the next episode...4/5. Took me quite some time to realize they are most likely going to title the last episode Dusk Maiden of Amnesia... |
| Never wright strange things on your test sheet it will only get you into trouble. Yuuko was such a tease at the start of this episode it was like the only thing she cared about was Teichi and nothing more much to his displeasure. It was funny seeing her with those emotions tho. I knew Teichi would get to see Yuuko's emotions when that vengeful ghost went after them still i would like the see all the things that happened to her in that past at the moment it's all a mystery. |
| oh man. this anime really pisses me off. xD i should have dropped long a ago. but im gonna finish it since im at 9/12 episodes. |
Spitfirefly said: I don't know why you're so pissed but it's a good story even if it varies from the manga. The fact that it varies lets you see multiple endings and gives you a reason to watch the anime and read the manga, rather than just doing 1 and ignoring the other <3 :)oh man. this anime really pisses me off. xD i should have dropped long a ago. but im gonna finish it since im at 9/12 episodes. |
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| I pretty sure she wasnt rape, bt since there are alot of people who hate spoilers im gonna stop there. But do you know what will suck ass even more? If the anime goes on hold for a week like Accel world lol |
ZBurn said: Don't say shit like that, you'll jynx it -_-"But do you know what will suck ass even more? If the anime goes on hold for a week like Accel world lol |
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| yes next episode we hopefully find out what really happened to Yuuko! |
kyled00m said: She doesn't feel the passage of time or loneliness because when she does, those feelings are shifted to Shadow Yuuko... That's certainly possible but so far the manga has not given a definite answer which memories are kept by Shadow Yuuko. Yuuko explicitly stated that before meeting Teiichi, who is apparently the first human she has prolonged contact with, days and nights passed for her in the blink of an eye. It's Teiichi (and the other members of the club to a degree) who gave her a new sense of time. Since she doesn't remember her life she simply didn't know any other form of existence until then. Jealousy is the feeling of having something taken from you and being stranded alone so she is feeling lonely as long as she has memories of anyone she considers special, be it a friend or something more. Except that Yuuko never freaked out in the manga in this situation, it's pure invention by the anime authors who make Yuuko behave very out of character for the sake of bringing the plot to a conclusion and to introduce more angst-ridden drama. Whether you want to accept it or not, she was lonely once she was left at the shrine for dead. She shut off her emotions to free herself from the loneliness and only recently in the anime has she re-acquired those emotions because of Teiichi. Prove by assertion is no prove at all I'm afraid. We know (again from the manga) that she *now* starts to struggle with her undead state and is anxious about the future. |
MatthesJun 6, 2012 2:06 PM
| ErunnoToo, I understand your arguments but just because it's not explicitly stated, doesn't mean it doesn't happen. It's the same argument as the tree falling in a forest where no one is... It makes the sound, even if it's not heard. I'm not going to expand on this because we'll just look like fools bickering. |
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kyled00m said: ErunnoToo, I understand your arguments but just because it's not explicitly stated, doesn't mean it doesn't happen. But we are talking about a fictional work here so you must have at least circumstantial evidence to strengthen your argument. Because that's where your tree analogy falls flat: Things that don't have some kind of measurable effect simply don't matter. Otherwise I could claim that Yuuko rides pink unicorns whenever she's not in the frame. I very much enjoy discussions so don't feel dissuaded by me. Nobody forces the others to read our bickering anyway. :-) |
MatthesJun 6, 2012 2:07 PM
ErunnoToo said: Well then prepare for explanations... I'll edit this post after rereading the stuff and getting chapters and pointing out things that enforce what I explained that you targeted. in that 3Paragraph set up there.kyled00m said: ErunnoToo, I understand your arguments but just because it's not explicitly stated, doesn't mean it doesn't happen. But we are talking about a fictional work here so you must have at least circumstantial evidence to strengthen your argument. Because that's where your tree analogy falls flat: Things that don't have some kind of measurable effect simply don't matter. Otherwise I could claim that Yuuko rides pink unicorns whenever she's not in the frame. I very much enjoy discussions so don't feel dissuaded by me. Nobody forces the others to read our bickering anyway. :-) |
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| Still somewhat disappointed with this as a whole It had hype before it came out, guess im a sucker for dark theme stories The ecchi moments are really awkwardly out of place in this entire series |
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| Oh boy, new stuff happening and it might be original, I will say that this episode didn't feel right, Shadow Yuuko for example was way too aggressive. If the flashback of Yuuko's past which hasn't been really covered in the manga turns out to be the real deal , I'm gonna be so pissed. I hope that Maybe has been supervising the studio's work or at least approved the final episodes' plotline. |
Tzu said: Still somewhat disappointed with this as a whole It had hype before it came out, guess im a sucker for dark theme stories The ecchi moments are really awkwardly out of place in this entire series ^This exactly. This episode was probably the best one since the first episode, it had a really nice feel all over. I'm looking forward to the next ep! |
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| Excellent episode, next one will be great too |
| Definitely my favorite show of the season, hope it ends well. Just wish the manga would catch up although I'm fairly certain the direction the anime is taking will not be the same as the manga. |
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| kirie looked pretty cute with blue eye ^.^ okonogi is becoming cuter in every ep ;) |
| This episode opens the possibility of Yuuko’s past. Sadly I see nothing but murder, rape, humiliation and blood in it. Hence why anyone would not be able to live with it. There is a nice thing called reset in reincarnation and perhaps this episode certainly factors in as to why despite some believing to be reincarnated seem to relive their past lives? Well perhaps that is because you are never to remember how you died last time you were around and pass on to new things with no memories of that. Sadly for Yuuko it’s the opposite where her means backfired into a living memory that reminds her of how she died and not how she imagines it to be as lesser toll on her. I have little time so I will tackle only some sections of this episode. About the fan service, now let’s get that out of the way of the main thinking. Well I think that Yuuko in the spoiler What I really liked about the whole fan service is that prior to it Yuuko gets trapped within her own anger in the spoiler About Yuuko not being able to leave school grounds, rather interesting it was shown in the spoiler About Yuuko’s past, HERE WE GO! This should clear some confusion. Please be aware I have the best quality possible 720p for visuals, so I think I can get this cleared out. LIST TIME!
1. Yuuko in saving a girl from the sacrifice gets herself killed and raped. 2. In trying to save the girl she gets killed and sacrificed herself. 3. Because the morons screwed up the ritual somehow by raping her or other things, it was all given up and buried there. The least one is vague but it means the first 2 ones things worked out somehow with the ritual but the last one it screwed up because of Yuuko so it was all given up somehow. Either way it all suggests Yuuko saving a girl due to her emotions tying her with that girl and in thee end gets either tortured, humiliated and killed or raped/killed. Either way it just plains sours my stomach to think shit like that was going in Japan and anime showing its horrors so I will stop here. About my 2 favorite parts, the first one is most likely the Sadako of Yuuko in the following,  As she walks away from the gate after Teiichi leaves. Rather a most striking resemblance flows there. I would have to say that Shadow Yuuko in the following,  Was a nice reference to Black Rock Shooter as people say except I think it might have looked cooler. About the end, KICK ASS! Did you see the rewind in the spoiler About the preview, a rather perplexing pic in the spoiler BTW Image Stitches and Image Dump done in the BLOG: http://ecchiking99.blogspot.ca/2012/06/image-stitches-and-image-dump-of.html much nice Yuuko is done and custom stuff tried out too. Now GIFs with Avatars are done in the Club: http://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=450477&show=0#post1 I think the Yuuko Black Rock Shooter was cool to do. Really nice. |
Yumekichi11Jun 8, 2012 5:34 PM
| Not gonna lie, I've been lurking around for quite a while before actually deciding to step in and post. Yume', you've got some of the best episodes "description" posts ever! :D |
| Ohh it's getting juicy now. Finally peering into the past to reveal the crucial moment. Looks like Yuuko has already started to inherit some of Shadow Yuuko's traits. I chuckled at the BRS reference but it ruined the mood a little. It was nicely done when she was running towards the school gates, I could really feel her desperation to escape. |
| Blaaaaaaaaaack roooooooooooooooock shoooooooooooooooooter!!! |
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