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| OMG this was intense, emotional and really sad episode Suzu chan sayonara |
| [b]This entire episode was chilling. I'm so happy it didn't end with "Suzuha went back in time and then there was a happy ending"....even the suicide, it made this all somewhat more exciting. And I was so happy that Mayuri finally played a significant role in their objectives. Where is Kurisu...? Oh man, I hope she is not dead.... working with SERN would certainly be better than having her be dead... Anyway, I have a few questions on things that I'm confused on, and I'm not sure if they're explained later on. But here we go: 1. How come Suzuha's travelling back in time didn't change Okarin's timeline? Even if it was because the ending happened exactly the same as had she not gone back, doesn't her altering the past /automatically/ change the timeline she exists within? Doesn't that mean that Okarin should never have received her letter in this timeline? Or does this time travel machine simply alter the very fiber of their CURRENT world line? 2. I thought that Okarin could only go back 48 hours with the "time leap". If Kurisu isn't there, doesn't that suggest that he's gone back more than 48 hours? |
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primaltare said: Anyway, I have a few questions on things that I'm confused on, and I'm not sure if they're explained later on. But here we go: 1. How come Suzuha's travelling back in time didn't change Okarin's timeline? Even if it was because the ending happened exactly the same as had she not gone back, doesn't her altering the past /automatically/ change the timeline she exists within? Doesn't that mean that Okarin should never have received her letter in this timeline? Or does this time travel machine simply alter the very fiber of their CURRENT world line? 2. I thought that Okarin could only go back 48 hours with the "time leap". If Kurisu isn't there, doesn't that suggest that he's gone back more than 48 hours? 1. Time travel in time machine is a bit different. Simple explanation: it travels in time in the same World Line and it is basically established event. I mean there is no grandfather paradox because, for example, if you want to back in time and kill yourself as a kid or parent's/grandrarents/etc it would be impossible, because originally when you were born, you from the future was already there and didn't succeed, that's attractor field that is preventing this paradoxes to occur. Same with Suzuha, she was already in the past in that World Line from the beginning, that's why nothing changed at the moment when she time traveled. So "Or does this time travel machine simply alter the very fiber of their CURRENT world line?" yes. That's all you need to know for now :) And a little side note about general time travel mechanic in this show, this was already told, so it's not spoilers, but a lot people get it in a wrong way. World Lines (not timelines, they are called different for a reason) are not parallel worlds, there is only 1 world and 1 active WL, all other WLs exist only hypothetically. When WL is changed(sending d-mail for example) World is rebuilding itself according to the new WL, but Okabe has ability to save his memories in that process for some reasons, he is not jumping between different universes :). 2. You are talking about end of this ep? Watch next, he didn't time leap in the end. |
HoTTab1CH said: primaltare said: Anyway, I have a few questions on things that I'm confused on, and I'm not sure if they're explained later on. But here we go: 1. How come Suzuha's travelling back in time didn't change Okarin's world line? Even if it was because the ending happened exactly the same as had she not gone back, doesn't her altering the past /automatically/ change the world line she exists within? Doesn't that mean that Okarin should never have received her letter in this world line? Or does this time travel machine simply alter the very fiber of their CURRENT world line? 2. I thought that Okarin could only go back 48 hours with the "time leap". If Kurisu isn't there, doesn't that suggest that he's gone back more than 48 hours? 1. Time travel in time machine is a bit different. Simple explanation: it travels in time in the same World Line and it is basically established event. I mean there is no grandfather paradox because, for example, if you want to back in time and kill yourself as a kid or parent's/grandrarents/etc it would be impossible, because originally when you were born, you from the future was already there and didn't succeed, that's attractor field that is preventing this paradoxes to occur. Same with Suzuha, she was already in the past in that World Line from the beginning, that's why nothing changed at the moment when she time traveled. So "Or does this time travel machine simply alter the very fiber of their CURRENT world line?" yes. That's all you need to know for now :) And a little side note about general time travel mechanic in this show, this was already told, so it's not spoilers, but a lot people get it in a wrong way. World Lines (not timelines, they are called different for a reason) are not parallel worlds, there is only 1 world and 1 active WL, all other WLs exist only hypothetically. When WL is changed(sending d-mail for example) World is rebuilding itself according to the new WL, but Okabe has ability to save his memories in that process for some reasons, he is not jumping between different universes :). 2. You are talking about end of this ep? Watch next, he didn't time leap in the end. 1. I'm not sure I fully understand how this prevents the Grandfather Paradox...if she were to kill her younger self in this world line, even if she and her younger self were to exist in the same physical space/time, how could she possibly kill herself? If she attempted to do this, what would happen? Would the time machine be destined to fail? Would both exist at that point and cease to exist afterward? Or would the future version continue to exist even with the past one being dead...? Thanks for the clarification on the difference between timeline and world line by the way. :) 2. Err, my bad, I meant that he sent a D-mail. Misconception. 3. Another question, why would Suzuha have not failed had she not stopped in 2010? Did the time machine break enough from the rain that it caused the malfunction where she was in a state of amnesia, and that's why? Thanks ^_^ |
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primaltare said: 1. I'm not sure I fully understand how this prevents the Grandfather Paradox...if she were to kill her younger self in this world line, even if she and her younger self were to exist in the same physical space/time, how could she possibly kill herself? If she attempted to do this, what would happen? Would the time machine be destined to fail? Would both exist at that point and cease to exist afterward? Or would the future version continue to exist even with the past one being dead...? All past and future in World Line is predetermined, if she would try to kill herself young something will happen that will prevent that kill attempt, just like Okabe can't save Mayuri she wouldn't be able to kill herself young. primaltare said: Did the time machine break enough from the rain that it caused the malfunction where she was in a state of amnesia, and that's why? Yea, something happened in that rainy night, maybe lightning hit time machine. |
| Awwhh, Mayushii made the connection, yeyyyyy~ Good girl, Mayu :D Friggin Daru LOL. Making requests about the appearance of his future wife hahaha |
| This is PURE INTENSE, if this ep were a physical matter, it would be the densest ever. It's so packed with the deepest of feels, emotional and mental twists. It's weird... it's both making me want to stop and go on watching. It's messing with my kokoro. souledge94 said: It's because that scene and all else happened before he time leapt, remember?lol he got the right soda this time. Time leaps so far: World line shifts so far.. Rewatching for the 4th time. |
AX3MApr 28, 2017 11:27 AM
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| [Rewatch - BD version 2.3 3rd Edition] I can't believe this episode made me cry again... First, when Suzuha found out who her father is. Then, when Suzuha's letter arrived... and she failed. [shippai shita shippai shita shippai shita] God, those words were painful to read... And finally, cried again when the divergence changed again and Suzuha died naturally, and her bike was still there... I love this anime so much. |
| If you think about it it's pretty hilarious how at the time okabe wanted to stop amane from leaving, he first got an email saying "go and stop her no matter what." and a few moments after, another one (the one he send in this ep.) saying "nvm, don't stop her after all" like how the hell should he know what to do xD |
| Freaking Daru hitting on his daughter. I don't think they are out of the woods yet, but it looks like Mayuri is safe for now. I don't think Okabe is one to let someone else get stranded in time. The meter finally changed. We may finally be getting on the right track. |
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| "Just raiku barrer". Is it really so hard to find japanese voice actors who can speak english? |
| Deep episode, and a strong one at that. I thought Okabe was going to time leap to a few hours earlier or send a text telling himself to tell Suzuha what happens if she goes to 1975 so that she stays in the present with them, but I guess in that case Mayuri would still be killed in the raid. I still feel as though she'll come back somehow |
| Suzuha... goodbye my favorite character. I'm glad that she somehow raised the divergence number (?) Her death was so tragic though... |
| What. A. Rollercoaster. This show is amazing, every episode is an emotional trip I can't really describe. This is seriously something else. |
| Around the gif~ "It's a big mistake to think you're the only one who can turn into a car" - Shiori Takatsuki |
| Man I forgot how depressing this episode was. |
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| That had it’s share of touching moments, though Okabe still needs to die. |
| Of course, that big time machine can only go back in time, just like the phone microwave. Holy shit Mayuri! Give her a round of applause! She figured out that Daru is Suzuha's father after connecting the evidence she's learnt. Clever! Wait, does that mean that Daru was just asking his own future daughter to get naked with him, that's awkward. But man the way Suzuha talked to Daru as a daughter and then hugging him, it feels so heartwarming. That's a beautiful daughter you've got there Daru! It turns out that John Titor is a nickname Daru have. (Daru is a nickname too though) The moment when Suzuha was saying her farewell to her fellow lab members made me tear up (T^T) She can only meet them again in her old age, and that's if she can live that long... NO WAY! She got 24 years long amnesia when she goes back to 1975!!! My heart is broken upon seeing those repeated "I've failed!" (SHIPPAISHITA!SHIPPAISHITA!SHIPPAISHITA!) messages, the fact that she felt that her life is a waste because she failed to obtain an IBN 5100 and that the letter Okabe received was the dying words and the that she died from suicide make the feels feel so heavy... With feels... And it's even worse now that Okabe has sent that D-mail, practically erasing everybody's memory about spending time together with Suzuha (except Okabe) made all the feels even heavier... Suzuha dying of illness because of the change caused by the D-mail is still just as bad, but at least she didn't feel like she has wasted her life away into the point to her committing suicide. Okabe didn't just sacrificed Suguha herself, he also sacrificed the happy memories that his lab members have with Suguha. Let's hope that at the very least, those Rounders and Moeka won't come to kill Mayuri tonight. The divergence number did increase from 0.3 to 0.4 afterall! The Lab that Okabe founded must've grown so much that by the time he and Daru made future gadget 204, it's a full-sized time machine that can PHYSICALLY send someone back in time! DAAAMN! |
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| Pretty sad seeing suzuha go like that :( |
| I am not a weeb, I simply enjoy 2D girls |
| Poor Suzuha. When Okabe read the letter I came in such a sad mood. I failed, I failed, I failed.... That's so depressing to hear. I also believe that something like lightning hit the time machine and damaged it. So Okabes D-Mail changed so much. Wow so Daru is Suzus father. Hard to believe that this little pervert will have such a cute daughter. I laughed when he asked if his wife is hot :D Hmm so Mayuri is safe? That means the events changed even more. I wonder what will happen next. That's such a rollercoaster for Okabe. |
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| Oh my, what a father figure Daru is. It's thrilling how Suzuha had experienced 30 years and Okabe and the gang only experienced an hour or so. So Suzuha never become a part timer now. Guess Daru wasn't smart enough to fix the time machine as of now. |
| He who smiles in a crisis has found someone to blame. |
| To think Suzuha failed and she is already death, must be hard for Daru to hear that |
UnkrownedSep 8, 2019 3:43 AM
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| Gotta mark this as my favorite episode so far for many many good and sad reasons -The most thrilling, jaw-dropping atmosphere -Mayuri -I realized how much I like Suzuha -Daru is great -Mayuri is smart -Daru met his future daughter -Mayuri -The mood when Suzu was saying goodbye. Please stop torturing me. I'm not sure how I feel about Okabe after everything that has happened so far. |
| If this episode doesn't break my heart every time |
| Holy fucking shit omfg, this was the best episode so far, so many shit happened in only 1 episode, i kinda knew it was Daru all along tho it was clear from the time she was going to a meeting her father was supposed to go but when Daru didn't go and Suzuka left and got stopped by the D-Msg i was sure it was Daru, R.I.P. Suzuha tho i liked her a lot! |
| This episode solidified my love for Daru, 10/10 episode. |
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| There was so much going on this episode. Moments where I went from being emotionally moved to sadness. When Suzuha left after her reunion with Daru, I thought everything would turn out okay until Mr. Braun delivered the letter. While I'm happy that the D-Mail changed how Suzuha died, it's still sad that Suzuha was never able to meet her father because of the world line change. |
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| Very emotional episode. Daru was confirmed as Suzuha's father. As for Suzuha, I felt bad for her. Her destiny after moving back to 1975 was to die after reaching certain age. |
HiImTheNewHere said: even though I find a bit dumb all the issue with SERN . What's the problem with SERN creating a dystopia? HiImTheNewHere said: that the rounders faint after they get hit once I don't really know what do you mean here HiImTheNewHere said: nobody outside the main cast cares about a big "satellite" in a building... The place was locked down. The authorities probably tried to investigate the "satelllite", but since they cannot open it (future tech), then did basically nothing with it. |
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HiImTheNewHere said: When Suzuha enters the lab and hits everyone, they just faint. I understand that she is a soldier but with those thin arms and legs? Also, when Okabe is trapped in a car, he hits the guy that was with him and he faints. Yeah I also found that kinda dumb and weird the first time I saw it, luckily the awesome story of this anime made me forget about this issue, also I was able to invent an excuse for this issue thanks to a certain episode that will happen ahead, inventing excuses for it made me forget about this issue faster and even with the issues this anime has (because nothing is perfect) it's still my favorite anime and I have watched dozens. BTW, since you're a first time watcher I must warn you about something important here, there's some people out there recommending a pretty bad watching order (the Chronological Order), you should avoid that order at all cost, first time watchers should watch this anime the way it was intended to be watched which is the Airing Order. To make it short, this should be the order you should watch it: Steins;Gate 01-24 > Steins;Gate Ova 25 > Steins;Gate Movie > Steins;Gate Ova 23beta > Steins;Gate 0. (The Movie is non-canon but it's still pretty enjoyable) Also, Steins;Gate 0 is not necessary and if you really want to watch it then I recommend you to play the VN instead, the anime adaptation has issues and personally, I didn't liked it that much but that's just me, there's people that liked that anime. |
dzew said: That was a very interesting and sad episode, I kinda got confused at some point but I think I understood at the end. hmmm... actually... did I? What the fuck did he do with the d-mail? He sent himself a message to don't persue Suzuha, thus Suzuha could go to the past before the rain which damaged the time machine. |
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guidodi said: Wouldn't it be easier to travel back 48hs and tell Daru the time machine isn't fixed properly and give him a few tries to get it right? If you don't know what is the error, you can't fix it. |
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guidodi said: He is a genius and he invented the machine in the first place, they could at least waste 5 seconds of animation showing he tried to fix it a few times before giving up. Undoing all the d-mail is way more complicated than giving Daru a few more tries. First, no, he wasn't the one who invented the time machine. It was invented by Kurisu, Daru's design is based on a stolen SERN design, and it is inferior to the real time machine. As Suzuha explained. And that happened in the future, and probably not in 2 days, but in years. The easiest and safest way to fix the time machine is to let Suzuha use it when she initially wanted. Second, even if they manage to fix the time machine, they still have to undo all the D-Mails, as you could literally saw what happens if Suzuha can go back to 1975 with a functional time machine. (the IBN still didn't get back to Okabe). |
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guidodi said: SheevPalpatine said: First, no, he wasn't the one who invented the time machine. It was invented by Kurisu, Daru's design is based on a stolen SERN design, and it is inferior to the real time machine. As Suzuha explained. And that happened in the future, and probably not in 2 days, but in years. The easiest and safest way to fix the time machine is to let Suzuha use it when she initially wanted. Second, even if they manage to fix the time machine, they still have to undo all the D-Mails, as you could literally saw what happens if Suzuha can go back to 1975 with a functional time machine. (the IBN still didn't get back to Okabe). The time machine on this episode, fg204 was invented by Daru, the one on the movie is the one Kurisu built but it is really beside the point who made it. And yes, you are right, even if they managed to fix it, it wouldn't help at all. (WE know that, but Okabe doesn't) I get what you are saying and I agree with you, but that beside the point too. By only seeing it once Daru (partially) fixed it in less than 48hs, he is clearly a genius and with Okabe helping him in future repairs, by retaining memories and telling him what fixes didn't worked in the past it could be done. The point i am trying to make is he just gives up on fixing it after a SINGLE try, I just find it out of character for a guy we are shown time and again how tenacious he is to give up so easily. I know it is just a stupid little detail but it bothers me. Pay more attention. Kurisu is the one who invents the time machine at SERN. She is "the mother of the time machine" in the future. Daru's design is based on stolen SERN data. These are straight facts. The movie is not canon. And again, by reverting the effects of the D-Mail, the time machine is fixed. This is the easiest and safest way to fix it. I don't know why are you nitpicking. |
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guidodi said: I nitpick because I enjoy a friendly to debate that's all, it is interesting to see how people think. Like in this situation. Just as you think d-mail is the safest way, I disagree and think they are pretty unpredictable, you never know what's going to happen and I would never choose to keep using d-mail over fixing the time machine. I would leave d-mail as a last resort if I am unable to fix the tm over time. Okabe knows by now how unpredictable a d-mail is and how much it can change the world or even fail like it did with the loto 6, it should be his last resort as well... but after failing a single time to fix the tm he goes with the d-mail instantly. Anyway like I said before, it's just a small detail and it's just a matter of opinion what you would do. Your opinion is not wrong either, it's all subjective after all, we have our opinions of what's wrong or right in those circumstances. It's true that Okabe rewinding the failings to let Daru try to fix the time machine again and again could probably be another good alternative but personally I don't know if I would be comfortable doing it either because having poor Suzuha going through all that again and eventually end up with another suicide will be too much for me to handle, it seems that at that point she will always end up dying with a suicide, Daru probably doesn't have the necessary info to fully repair the time machine so it will always be damaged no matter what he do. Of course we don't know this yet but that's what it appears to be for me. While I won't be comfortable letting Suzuha do another trip just for her to end up killing herself again I would probably do the D-mail as well but I understand your point, the D-mail is risky and should also be used as a last resort, I guess my personal feelings for Suzuha will force me to use the D-mail right away but we all know that personal feelings isn't always the correct solution to a problem. |
guidodi said: Sure, you make some good points too. To be honest I never really thought about Suzuha suffering at all, just the fact that I consider the d-mail a pretty big gamble and the final goal is to save 5.7 billion people. Letting her suffer is a small price to pay against saving the world. I would probably let her suffer a few hundred tries at fixing the tm before giving up. LOL Also there is the fact that by now Okabe knows how cruel convergence can be. Even if he time leaps, Daru probably couldn't fix the time machine due to convergence, since time leap can only change the divergence by 0.000001% or less. He would end up doing the same thing over and over again. By the way, if you are interested, in the VN, you can choose to not send the D-Mail. Steins;Gate VN Suzuha Ending: |
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| I think after reading the VN, then rewatching the anime, Suzuha is becoming one of my fav characters in this series tbh. It was a lot to take in the first time watching it. Shit was painful. I missed a couple of things the story was telling. I completely understood how the timeline works as well. Neatly written. Reading steiner isnt a real thing. Its no fate. We're just seeing from one perspective. |
leev said: I think after reading the VN, then rewatching the anime, Suzuha is becoming one of my fav characters in this series tbh. It was a lot to take in the first time watching it. Shit was painful. I missed a couple of things the story was telling. I completely understood how the timeline works as well. Neatly written. Reading steiner isnt a real thing. Its no fate. We're just seeing from one perspective. Wdym by Reading Steiner isn't a real thing? |
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SheevPalpatine said: leev said: I think after reading the VN, then rewatching the anime, Suzuha is becoming one of my fav characters in this series tbh. It was a lot to take in the first time watching it. Shit was painful. I missed a couple of things the story was telling. I completely understood how the timeline works as well. Neatly written. Reading steiner isnt a real thing. Its no fate. We're just seeing from one perspective. Wdym by Reading Steiner isn't a real thing? The point is everyone has 'Reading Steiner'. When someone uses d-mail, its only the person itself that'll carry the memories to the new worldline. We're just seeing Steins;Gate through Okabe's perspective, logically theres also Kurisu and Daru's perspectives since they clearly used D-Mail at some point in the series (I forgot what episode). However because we're seeing it from Okabe's perspective, we see it as if they failed and nothing happens to them. Its probably the same when Okabe uses D-Mail. Kurisu and others would see that Okabe failed to move to a worldline. |
| That's absolutely not how it works. leev said: When someone uses d-mail, its only the person itself that'll carry the memories to the new worldline We seen it plenty of times both in Steins;Gate and Steins;Gate 0 when Okabe did not use D-Mail, and Reading Steiner activated. For example Moeka's case, or in 0, there are even more examples to that. leev said: logically theres also Kurisu and Daru's perspectives since they clearly used D-Mail at some point in the series (I forgot what episode). However because we're seeing it from Okabe's perspective, we see it as if they failed and nothing happens to them. Its probably the same when Okabe uses D-Mail. Kurisu and others would see that Okabe failed to move to a worldline. This again makes absolutely no sense, since only 1 worldline exists at any given time. So there is nothing like that "the others used the D-Mail, they moved to a different worldline, but this one still continues" Only Okabe has real Reading Steiner. What others can experience are faint memories, which are a wee bit different than Reading Steiner. Let's see Faris: (which happens in the next episode, hence the spoiler tag) Another proof that Reading Steiner and faint memories are different things: even Okabe himself, who possesses Reading Steiner, even he has faint memories too! - his dream about he is falling into a blackhole (a faint memory from a worldline, SERN experimented on him) - his dream about the wasteland from 70 million years ago (a faint memory from a worldline, where he was sent there by SERN Steins;Gate 0 anime: It is weird that you read the VN, yet still have such a weird and false theories. |
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