Toxicity in the Anime Community, that know one talks about

Kayle_x_Morgana said:


Do not inject your anti trump politics into it(since every game company is left wing)

Don't be like mass effect. I believe that was ruined by Anita Sarkisian because the devs were listening to her for whatever reason. At launch apparently you weren't even able to make a super light skinned character. #diversity

And most importantly do not ever listen to anything shitaku or any cesspool gaming website says.

Or just do what cdprojekt red does.

Kayle_x_Morgana said:
that is what you said? More education will see that anime is bad because it isn't pc and woke?

_Ridley_ said:


I don't care one way or the other about what prompted this particular whiny thread among the other whiny threads, but this sentence made my brain hurt.

The word may be over- and misused in online discourse, but "problematic" is a perfectly valid word that absolutely can describe works of fiction. Literally all it means is that the work has problems. It doesn't mean the work lacks value, or that nobody is allowed to enjoy it. It just means that when you view this work from a particular POV, like feminist or disabled theory for example, it reinforces ideas considered harmful.

If the politics don't matter to you and you don't care if something is misogynist or ableist, then it doesn't affect you at all when someone critiques something as problematic. It's no different than someone hating a thing because they thought the music sucked or whatever. If the politics do matter to you, you can take it as a learning experience and decide for yourself how it changes your view of something. Media critique is just another way of trying to understand society. Feminists aren't trying to take anything away from you.

jal90 said:

You basically want censorship to happen, then.

Kayle_x_Morgana said:
yes that is exactly what I said. Finally someone underdstands.....

Ps no, you are... a word I cannot say because shit mods will ban me.

_Ridley_ said:


I don't care one way or the other about what prompted this particular whiny thread among the other whiny threads, but this sentence made my brain hurt.

Manaban said:


The thread that springboarded this entire topic had nothing to do with the type of wokeness you're complaining about. At all. I understand not wanting to read through about 500 posts, but I can summarize it for you, given I've been there in some capacity since the beginning. Right now I'm just lurking it from time to time because I'm exhausted with it.

You are inserting the wokeness aspect in it because you see "Somebody being a dick about ecchi" and immediately assuming "it must be dem damn es jay dubyas." But the closest thing to SJW about it was trying to justify their eradictive notions by making appeals to protecting children, which has nothing to do with the type of wokeness you're bringing up here. Everything else was stuff about fear of how it affects non-fans view of anime and making appeals to high art.

This thread was specifically offensive and got the backlash it did from ecchi fans because it was encouraging and advocating forcing us out. The OP and people who supported his views flip flopped on their reason as to why they should do that constantly, and only one of them was related to morality in any way, being the "protecc the development of children" argument they flipped to at around page 7, which they later flipped off of.

This isn't an issue of wokeness or SJWs or anything like that. You people are bastardizing this by forcing it into the problem. *I* was the one holding that fort while none of you that are asserting this as being the issue that's present here so strongly were even involved. Stop fucking acting like you were a part of the conversation and that you grasp what the issue was when you clearly don't even know the ways they were trying to justify their stances.

2shizukasensei88 said:
You might be surprised by what I am about to say, but......., I don't hate casual anime watchers (yeah, shooookiing right?), people who read and liked komisan, cried in anohona and evergarden, who shits on Sao constantly, watches seasonal anime, puts Demon Slayer in the favs and rate it 10, and etc. I'm fine with that (idc), the one that I have problems with is...., the people who wants the medium to be more PC, this is evident to the current most popular forum thread, people are constant asking for the ecchi genre to be removed, saying all sorts nonsense, like it's perverse, degeneracy, and leads to pedoshit. It's ironic, because those people probably read/watch 50 shades of grey, and now they are mad when some animated ass is on the screen. Like someone in the thread said "It is sad that people wished for it to be removed, instead of just ignoring it" (not exact words). And don't get me started on how much they virtue signal, it's unbelievable honestly. I wish I will never encounter people who use the word "problematic" for the things they don't like.

2shizukasensei88 said:

So basically, I can't make this kind of thread, because you already save the whole ecchi genre, and me doing this, is just making pointless chaos.

2shizukasensei88 said:
And you never explained why this is not a woke/sjw problem

2shizukasensei88 said:

the people who wants the medium to be more PC, this is evident to the current most popular forum thread, people are constant asking for the ecchi genre to be removed, saying all sorts nonsense, like it's perverse, degeneracy, and leads to pedoshit. It's ironic, because those people probably read/watch 50 shades of grey, and now they are mad when some animated ass is on the screen. Like someone in the thread said "It is sad that people wished for it to be removed, instead of just ignoring it" (not exact words). And don't get me started on how much they virtue signal, it's unbelievable honestly. I wish I will never encounter people who use the word "problematic" for the things they don't like.

Manaban said:

You are inserting the wokeness aspect in it because you see "Somebody being a dick about ecchi" and immediately assuming "it must be dem damn es jay dubyas." But the closest thing to SJW about it was trying to justify their eradictive notions by making appeals to protecting children, which has nothing to do with the type of wokeness you're bringing up here. Everything else was stuff about fear of how it affects non-fans view of anime and making appeals to high art.

Manaban said:
The thread that started this whole chain reaction went from forcing us out due to our fanbase's presence being bad for anime's image to non-fans, to forcing us out due to our type of content not being inspirational/suitable for small children and the fact that we propagate the creation of that type of content by supporting it, to forcing us out because we're inherently unhealthy and live lifestyles that are parasitic to society, to forcing us out because it doesn't constitute high art and, again, we're propagating devaluing anime's image by supporting the creation if the works, to just devolving into the blatant shitposting that Darius guy is doing right now.

2shizukasensei88 said:
You just said loads of nothing

jal90 said:

Do not listen to, don't do this, do not inject that. This is your speech. You aim to silence certain discourses and that is censorship in a nutshell.

If mods can ban you for what you have to say about me, maybe you don't belong to this community.

Peaceful_Critic said:


But anime can be racist, even if to a lesser extent. Anime does sometimes do the exaggerated, unattractive black guy look sometimes. Garterbelt from panty and stocking would be an example that closely resembles black face from the pictures of him I've seen. Being animated doesn't make it immune to this problem. Japan is nationally very Asian and Japanese, and they don't have the same history so they view stuff differently.

Kayle_x_Morgana said:


That is why I am censoring myself, just like what you want to do to anime. Don't want to hurt your feelings.

And nah, you don't belong here if you are trying to ruin anime for the majority. Sjws are the minority fyi.

Chiibi said:
Good, hopefully it hurt enough to stop using that asinine word so I never have to look at it again.

Kurgo said:

If you could rewrite this in a somewhat comprehensible and logical way and in standard English, it'd be extremely helpful, because I've read this nonsensical textual diarrhea a few times and I still can't understand what your problem (or even point) is. Let me have a go again.

You don't hate casual fans (why would anyone care what you think of casual fans - which in itself is an idiotic and unidentifiable definition -, I don't know, but still).
But you don't like people who...the usual, mean sjw who want to take ecchi away from us, or some other unoriginal drivel all-too-commonly spouted by embarassingly insecure teens (add pc culture in it too, just for funzies)?

Is that the point? Wah wah pc culture gon ruin MuH aNiMuH? Bloody hell, just write that the next time around, what's the point in waltzing around the issue to this hilarious degree?

As for the word problematic, I suggest a visit to thesaurus.com, where you'll find plenty of synonyms to use in its stead. You could also not give a damn about people using a word you don't like but that'd require a level of maturity you have apparently not yet attained so, currently, this is the best solution.

I'd hold out a tiny sliver of hope that you could be a troll but it really doesn't seem to be likely at all.
Here's a piece of advice: if you don't like what someone is saying you can - hold it - ignore them. Yes. I know. Now that you've been imparted this frankly essential piece of knowledge, your life is bound to improve drastically. You're welcome.

Manaban said:

You can't make this kind of thread because you don't understand what you're talking about. You're chalking it up to SJWs and wokeness whenever the stances of the people who were attacking us were entirely unrelated.

You're talking out of your ass and making issues that don't exist in the context you're applying them to.





What's this?



Here's a more clear breakdown of the various issues the people in that thread were raising, though, that I posted earlier:




Hope this helps, considering you're pretty clearly accusing me of this without even reading it. Otherwise accusing me of presenting myself as the savior of ecchi wouldn't have been what you took away from my post at all.

Manaban said:

I mean, he was there and he even implicitly supported us at one point, at least through passive enablement.

You didn't do jack shit other than come here to try to make this as politicized as possible. Which is the only thing I've ever seen you do. This problem is only important to you now because you can make it into an issue about SJWs, as unjustified as it is (and probably why you didn't stick around in the initial thread for very long at all.) And in the broader community, you don't contribute anything other than pressing your paranoia about the presence of SJWs onto every topic you're in, and the only reason you're saying anything now is because the OP twisted it in a way that's facilitating you being able to turn it into this type of issue.

I'm keeping jal here over you any day of the week. You don't belong here.

Kayle_x_Morgana said:


OK so I don't know the point of your post. If you don't like me, feel free to block me. Won't lose sleep.

_Ridley_ said:
the "SJWs are coming for my porn" people here make me want to use it more.

Manaban said:

I was actually active in fighting off that thread, to start. I was there and against it. This wasn't an issue to you at all until you could use it to further your rhetoric.

As somebody who'd actually be affected by the shit you're trying to white knight for, I'm going to be more welcoming towards people who don't exclusively use this community as a platform to attempt to proselytize their personal politics. You don't give a shit about this community or anything involving it. You give a shit about coming here to make as much shit as you can into SJW-anti-SJW politics. So get out. This isn't your hill and nobody is going to be your fucking puppet so you can spew your conspiratory bullshit.

The other point is that I don't think the problem is with the user you're trying to tell to leave. And, considering the main point, I'd much rather see you bail out in comparison because you're more of a problem than somebody not taking issue with the word "problematic."

Kayle_x_Morgana said:


uh white knight aren'tyou literally doing that for the person I was talking to earlier? and for me, I'm the one trying to get people NOT to change anime. Keep it as it is do not censor it. Bad trolling. Good bye.

Peaceful_Critic said:
Black Face is when a white person dresses up as a black person using exaggerated purposefully unattractive features. It's not just having big lips(as that can be desirable), it's making the lips so comically big that it looks like no humans on earth.

Chiibi said:


Implying that SJWS aren't actually a threat? But they are a threat. If they've already gotten video games censored, I find that kind of intimidating.

What happened to freedom of speech? Don't misunderstand that I'm some porn freak; I'm really not and I don't "use" it the way porn lovers use it.

But destroying what the First Amendment stands for is terrifying to me. Don't tell me it's overreacting; Australia already wants to ban certain anime titles. What's next then? ALL of it?

_Ridley_ said:


Censorship is 99.9% of the time a right-wing/conservative action. Even within feminism, the anti-porn wing is the conservative faction that also denies transgender people's validity. There's no movement from left-aligned groups in favor of state censorship. They're generally the groups actively opposing censorship like FOSTA/SESTA in the US.

At worst, your average so-called "SJW" is yelling online about tropes that piss them off. The only difference between them and people who hate tsunderes or w/e is their motivation.

Zeroflamez said:

Yeah I don't agree with those old Cartoons that were extremely racist doing that kind of thing. However a character like Garter Belt, Mr Popo or Krone I don't see it as that as an issue. It's just big lips..

2shizukasensei88 said:


Bruh, have you heard people who used the word problematic for things they don't like? And I never said that it was problematic tho, gEt rEkt wItH fACtS aND lOgiC

Daniel_Naumov said:

Japanese internal crime rates and statistics, released annually by the NAP, have proven UN claims to be true and keep proving them with every new fiscal year. UN is simply fulfilling its duty to the adults and the children to protect the children and prevent the adults from committing even more atrocities upon the world. The cultural apathy and lack of moral guidelines are amongst the factors that facilitate these cruel, unbelievable statistics on children misuse and abuse.

Peaceful_Critic said:
Ooof, I was wondering who Mr. Popo is and then I looked at him. Wow, that's yikes. I would recommend looking at what blackface looks like. And if you still don't think Mr.Popo or Garterbelt resembles blackface, I genuinely don't know what to tell. I mean Krone is more forgivable(since the blackface isn't as blatantly obvious and there are other more respectful depictions of blacks in the show), though she uncomfortably still greatly resembles a minstrel archetype about black women both personality wise and appearance-wise(i.e that black women are seen as manly and aggressive). It's kind of telling how her appearance is used to terrify the children, not just her facial expressions(which implies her to be unattractive) and how every other character in the show looks like your typical anime character.

Daniel_Naumov said:

Regrettably, your whole understanding of the system is based on one unhealthy example, namely on how it is done in the U.S.A. Censorship is a complex matter and in reality does not preoccupy itself with political ideologies of any degree of rotting. Alas, in the U.S.A. the concept itself is a part of the brainwashing of the common folk and is equally used against every political, ideological or cultural group. The censorship, that is. A censorship known to the whole world. Throughout the centuries of its existence. Embedded in the annals of the ancient history.

Hopefully this does not become a surprise, but there is simply no "just" in art. When someone makes a character up, conceives the concept, they must envision the characteristics of said character, their design. When agreed with themselves on making a black character, the author then was forced to ask himself (I will assume) - "Should the person have big lips? If yes, what would that mean?", and then it happens. A complex system of knowledge, associations and cultural references begin whirling in the mind of the author. Is he knowledgeable enough to know that black characters with big lips are usually associated with derogatory or "funny" cartoons of the old? If yes, then what is the meaning of leaving that characteristic there? Is there a message to be perceived, or the design as a whole being a reference? If not, is it the case of, simply put, cultural ignorance? Then again, there might be reason at all - the author once saw a cartoon or a picture with black people having big lips, or precisely the cartoon in question, and without any further critical analysis simply re-produced the characteristics of the aforementioned character.

But before all of that happens, the author thinks of how the character will/should/would look like. There is never just "just". The thought itself cannot be diminished to something meaningless.

Pullman said:


okay 'bruh', keep the self-awareness low and if you're lucky you'll never realize how cringy you LoOk RiGhT nOw...




I just don't get why people like you always have to shoehorn politics into this topic, as if that's the only reason people don't like ecchi, because they worship political correctness. That's just bullshit. Some people just don't like it and are assholes enough to want it to disappear for that reason, and some are arch-conservative or religious and dislike it for that reason and others, like the OP from that other thread, are just ridden with personal insecurities and don't want to be associated with something that might get him judged by others and wants it gone for that reason.

I rarely see anyone actually say that they want ecchi to be gone because it's not politically correct, that are usually words being put into their mouths by people like YOU who want to politicize the topic to rant against the left and liberals in general by creating this narrative that anyone who for any reason dislikes ecchi is a SJW or PC fanatic, even when the complete opposite, the conservative right-wing and religious people are just as much against it if not more than the most zealous SJWs are, along with tons of people who just dislike it for personal reasons or out of insecurity.

And I'm sick of all this political bullshit, of people like OP politicizing average assholes or frauds like that other OP, spinning every tale in a way that exclusively and only blames the left when the reality is just not that simple, not that black and white. But when your main goal isn't to defend ecchi from all sides but to fearmonger against the left, that doesn't matter. Am I right?

That last line about 'virtue signaling' is another one of those extremely hypocritical complaints. You don't have a problem with virtue signaling, you just have a problem with people on the left doing it because you disagree with them. But your whole post, this whole thread is a giant 'virtue signal', it's just not signaling virtue to SJWs but to the other end of the spectrum, the anti-SJW crowd and alt-right. But it's the same fucking principle, the same fishing for likes and +1 posts and similar-minded people patting each other on the back for agreeing with each other that the other side is the worst thing in existence. I actually hate that too, but unlike you I'm not selective about it and hate it on both sides.

If you were genuine and unpolitical and willing to distinguish between different groups of people who dislike ecchi for different reasons instead of just immediately labeling anyone who hates it a PC-terrorist and blaming the left for it, we could have a conversation. I would be on your side. I did tell off that guy from the other thread as well because he was full of shit. It's just that you are too, making it hard to want to pick a side.

Idk what it is, but too many people who defend ecchi just seem like they want to force politics into everything, making me not want to side with them because of that. They're locked into this 'us vs. them' mentality and can't seem to interpret any conflict or disagreement on any other level than the political one. They have no other mode of argumentation than:

1. Identify disagreeing party and antagonize it.
2. Try to undermine their credibility by accusing them of being PC/SJW.
3. Ignore all nuance of their opinion and reduce it to 'muh evil SJW' by applying buzzwords like 'virtue signaling'.
4. Framing their own political stance and bias as being 'unpolitical' and convincing themselves that that's true so they don't realize their hypocrisy.



tl;dr:
It's very easy to agree that people who want to remove ecchi as a whole are assholes. It's very hard to find someone defending ecchi who doesn't do it in a hypocritical and politicizing fashion and whose arguments aren't extremely reductive, selective and manipulative. People like OP just make it incredibly hard to agree with them because they manage to take a very agreeable stance and coat it in so many shitty, political arguments and agendas that it becomes really hard to willingly associate with them and their argumentation. They're undermining their own cause and don't even see the irony of it.

Zeroflamez said:

Big lips is a trait a lot of black people have. As long as the author is just drawing big lips and isn't portraying them in a negative light I don't see there being an issue.

Peaceful_Critic said:
Just to be clear, are you saying that Krone was drawn that way out of her portrayal of a villain instead of as a black person? If so, I agree(and I don't think the author made her to be disrespectful), but I believe that the depiction is harmful regardless as it reinforces a stereotype to a country that doesn't see that kind of person.

Peaceful_Critic said:
Ooof, I was wondering who Mr. Popo is and then I looked at him. Wow, that's yikes.

2shizukasensei88 said:


So basically, I can't make this kind of thread, because you already save the whole ecchi genre, and me doing this, is just making pointless chaos.

Or probably I just don't understand you, and possibly accidentally straw maning your statement.

And you never explained why this is not a woke/sjw problem

You just said loads of nothing

Kami_sama_ said:


Personally, I don't think the Ecchi genre should be removed, Ecchi and even Hentai as an art-form isn't inherently bad, I just think that the culture it creates should be lessened.

However you can't deny the perverse way in which they depict young girls and boys. People who have illegal and immoral sexual desires will be able to use this art-form as a way to satisfy said desires. Even if it is culturally appropriate in Japan, there are other global cultures were it is culturally inappropriate, immoral or even illegal.

Imagine if the sale of guns all around the world was allowed. Gun-enthusiasts everywhere would be ecstatic as they can further their gun-based hobby, and other people could now purchase said guns for self-defense. However, there are places in the world and people within it that would misuse this gun regulation for their immoral deeds.

So I wouldn't say that Ecchi/Hentai leads to the creation of people who love child porn, but it would definitely give people a legal loop hole to attain it. This applies to all 2d/3d pornographic/ecchi material.

Kami_sama_ said:


However you can't deny the perverse way in which they depict young girls and boys. People who have illegal and immoral sexual desires will be able to use this art-form as a way to satisfy said desires.

Kami_sama_ said:


I understand that there are laws to prevent child-porn from being viewed. Nothing is stopping an avid child-porn lover from watching Boku No Pico. Which isn't classified as child-porn because the ages of it's characters are not specified, but it is heavily implied in how the characters act and 'interact' with each other.

Peaceful_Critic said:


Well, it's good you can agree with that. Oh, and as a quick question how is Mr. Popo personality-wise? You don't need to answer, but I am curious.