| Scientists have come up with a drug, injected once a day, that appears to make children’s bones grow. To many, it’s a wondrous invention that could improve the lives of thousands of people with dwarfism. To others, it’s a profit-driven solution in search of a problem, one that could unravel decades of hard-won respect for an entire community. In the middle are families, doctors, and a pharmaceutical company, all dealing with a philosophically fraught question: Is it ethical to make a little person taller? There is, however, little dispute over what the future holds. Vosoritide is on track to win FDA approval, leaving all parties to prepare for a world in which height is a matter of choice. https://www.statnews.com/2019/11/18/a-new-treatment-promises-to-make-little-people-taller-is-it-an-insult-to-dwarf-pride/ its not a matter of choice though but a matter of is it affordable? lol one good thing about being small is the you get less cancer thats about it |
| Lol, if a new service is gonna detroy decades of "hard-won respect", then there wasn't any real respect to begin with. Real respect should have nothing to do with whether or not the condition is curable or even affordable. If their belonging in society is really in danger of collapse because of this than this belonging is superficial at best and they should strive for more. |
| You are not your body, you are your brain, the "self" that emerges from within it. |
| being taller =/= being healthier. |
| "among monsters and humans, there are only two types. Those who undergo suffering and spread it to others. And those who undergo suffering and avoid giving it to others." -Alice “Beauty is no quality in things themselves: It exists merely in the mind which contemplates them; and each mind perceives a different beauty.” David Hume “Evil is created when someone gives up on someone else. It appears when everyone gives up on someone as a lost cause and removes their path to salvation. Once they are cut off from everyone else, they become evil.” -Othinus  |
| Kind of obvious it would be a good thing if it were safe since that form of dwarfism has other negative effects than just short stature. hazarddex said: being taller =/= being healthier. In this case it is. Read the article. |
RealTheAbsurdist said: because the implication is that being a dwarf is an undesirable condition as opposed to being a neutral or positive thing.I don't understand how it can be an insult: if some people want to be taller, let them be taller. Imagine someone invented a drug that made people who looked similar to you look less like you. The RealAbsurdistFaceFix drug. Anyone who looks like you can take it and change their face. Do you see? I'm just explaining the logic btw, not gonna comment on if I'm for or against it. |
| "my life at this state could be transposed into a pretty massive biography" - Cneq, "the guy who was literally using BTC in 2012 to make deals in the first main instance of a digital itemized economy forming naturally in all human history (also the precursor of NFTs) and who had 20k+ total trades.", 23 years old MAL's most prolific antivaxxer, Noboru. |
| Lol, what a surprise, some people seems like if they are always waiting an excuse to be offended. If it works and someone wants to be taller then there shouldn't be any issues. |
 |
Railey2 said: RealTheAbsurdist said: because the implication is that being a dwarf is an undesirable condition as opposed to being a neutral or positive thing.I don't understand how it can be an insult: if some people want to be taller, let them be taller. Imagine someone invented a drug that made people who looked similar to you look less like you. The RealAbsurdistFaceFix drug. Anyone who looks like you can take it and change their face. Do you see? I'm just explaining the logic btw, not gonna comment on if I'm for or against it. But that doesn't take into consideration the many people with this condition who would prefer to be taller and DO believe that dwarfism is undesirable. Just because a company creates a medicine to make people taller doesn't mean they hate short people or believe that being short is a bad thing. They're simply offering a service to people who want it. And there must be a large enough group of people who want it, otherwise they wouldn't invest so much time and money to create it. |
| When you stand at the cliff's edge, staring into the darkness below, the most horrifying realization is not that you might slip, but that you could leap. |
| Now make a drug to make people smaller. I'd be making myself short whenever I want to get ragdolled and back to my usual height when I want to be the ragdoller. |
| well, tall things are the first thing to get thunderbolted when it's raining though. that's another good thing about being small. less chance of dying. oh well, i kinda understand that many companies uses a height standard for their new recruits and this might hinder skilled people to get a satisfactory job because their physical body doesn't meet the requirement. that's the reality today. well, if you can't find a suitable job for you, make one yourself. we're living in a very convenient world atm. everyone can turn almost every simple daily chores into a job (i haven't found a job about breathing, like you pay someone to breath for you). |
 |
| People accepted it because they had no choice. We have always advanced medicine to help with medical issues that negatively impact people and this is no different. |
 I can see you |
MadHobbit2 said: The fact that they would prefer to be taller is the entire point, that's why it's insulting: the dwarves that want the medicine see it as a condition that needs treatment, and the company that provides the medicine complies. Now ask yourself: How does that come across to someone who feels strongly about being a dwarf? Count 1 and 1 together will ya. Put yourself in their tiny shoes, you can do it I believe in you.Railey2 said: because the implication is that being a dwarf is an undesirable condition as opposed to being a neutral or positive thing. Imagine someone invented a drug that made people who looked similar to you look less like you. The RealAbsurdistFaceFix drug. Anyone who looks like you can take it and change their face. Do you see? I'm just explaining the logic btw, not gonna comment on if I'm for or against it. But that doesn't take into consideration the many people with this condition who would prefer to be taller and DO believe that dwarfism is undesirable. Just because a company creates a medicine to make people taller doesn't mean they hate short people or believe that being short is a bad thing. They're simply offering a service to people who want it. And there must be a large enough group of people who want it, otherwise they wouldn't invest so much time and money to create it. |
Railey2Nov 18, 2019 9:27 PM
| "my life at this state could be transposed into a pretty massive biography" - Cneq, "the guy who was literally using BTC in 2012 to make deals in the first main instance of a digital itemized economy forming naturally in all human history (also the precursor of NFTs) and who had 20k+ total trades.", 23 years old MAL's most prolific antivaxxer, Noboru. |
| I can already imagine bodybuilders illegally injecting large quantities of this into their bodies. But yea, asking us "is it ethical" is quite ridiculous. If there is a cure to a certain disease/condition, then let the people who want to be cured use it. @Railey2 if there's a "cure" that turns homosexual people heterosexual would it be an insult to "gay pride"? I mean would a person who feels strongly about being a homosexual be bothered by the fact that some people who were born with the same "condition" do not want to spend the rest of their lives the same way he or she does? I can see why some people may think it's offensive but I kind of disagree. |
149597871Nov 18, 2019 10:21 PM
149597871 said: I can already imagine bodybuilders illegally injecting large quantities of this into their bodies. But yea, asking us "is it ethical" is quite ridiculous. If there is a cure to a certain disease/condition, then let the people who want to be cured use it. Unlikely because it effects bones not muscles. |
traed said: 149597871 said: I can already imagine bodybuilders illegally injecting large quantities of this into their bodies. But yea, asking us "is it ethical" is quite ridiculous. If there is a cure to a certain disease/condition, then let the people who want to be cured use it. Unlikely because it effects bones not muscles. The right bone structure allows you to attain a muscular physique more easily and people with larger bones are usually a lot more muscular although it is not always the case obviously. Sadly, I'm pretty sure that some people I know would be probably interested in this "cure" for the aforementioned reasons despite not being actual dwarfs. |
149597871 said: you don't have to agree. I merely explained how some people might take offense, that's all. I don't think I'd personally take offense if I was a dwarf either. If people don't want to be dwarves, it's good that there's treatment available.I can already imagine bodybuilders illegally injecting large quantities of this into their bodies. But yea, asking us "is it ethical" is quite ridiculous. If there is a cure to a certain disease/condition, then let the people who want to be cured use it. @Railey2 if there's a "cure" that turns homosexual people heterosexual would it be an insult to "gay pride"? I mean would a person who feels strongly about being a homosexual be bothered by the fact that some people who were born with the same "condition" do not want to spend the rest of their lives the same way he or she does? I can see why some people may think it's offensive but I kind of disagree. |
| "my life at this state could be transposed into a pretty massive biography" - Cneq, "the guy who was literally using BTC in 2012 to make deals in the first main instance of a digital itemized economy forming naturally in all human history (also the precursor of NFTs) and who had 20k+ total trades.", 23 years old MAL's most prolific antivaxxer, Noboru. |
149597871 said: The right bone structure allows you to attain a muscular physique more easily and people with larger bones are usually a lot more muscular although it is not always the case obviously. Sadly, I'm pretty sure that some people I know would be probably interested in this "cure" for the aforementioned reasons despite not being actual dwarfs. Wouldn't that be more about bone density not size? Anyway nah the new thing body builders are into is SARMs. |
| It can make bones grow, what about muscles, cartilage and tendons? It could be putting those people in a world of pain with severely mess up bodies. |
 |
Railey2 said: MadHobbit2 said: The fact that they would prefer to be taller is the entire point, that's why it's insulting: the dwarves that want the medicine see it as a condition that needs treatment, and the company that provides the medicine complies. Now ask yourself: How does that come across to someone who feels strongly about being a dwarf? Count 1 and 1 together will ya. Put yourself in their tiny shoes, you can do it I believe in you.But that doesn't take into consideration the many people with this condition who would prefer to be taller and DO believe that dwarfism is undesirable. Just because a company creates a medicine to make people taller doesn't mean they hate short people or believe that being short is a bad thing. They're simply offering a service to people who want it. And there must be a large enough group of people who want it, otherwise they wouldn't invest so much time and money to create it. If some dwarves would rather be short, they're more than capable of abstaining from the medicine. Why must one view be more morally acceptable than the other? If a dwarf who wants to be tall must be tolerant of the dwarves who want to stay short, why can't the dwarves who want to stay short be tolerant of the dwarves who want to be tall? Criticizing someone for something that is for all intents and purposes a lifestyle choice is what's wrong. Not the company making the medicine, and not either group of dwarves with differing views on dwarfism. |
| When you stand at the cliff's edge, staring into the darkness below, the most horrifying realization is not that you might slip, but that you could leap. |
MadHobbit2 said: Because they view it as an attack on their very being. Consciously deciding to not be a dwarf and to seek treatment implies that being a dwarf is bad and undesireable, which is why some dwarves find it offensive. And again, I want to stress that I agree that a resentful dwarf should just be the bigger person (hurr) and let it go, but can you really not see how some people might feel like this?Railey2 said: The fact that they would prefer to be taller is the entire point, that's why it's insulting: the dwarves that want the medicine see it as a condition that needs treatment, and the company that provides the medicine complies. Now ask yourself: How does that come across to someone who feels strongly about being a dwarf? Count 1 and 1 together will ya. Put yourself in their tiny shoes, you can do it I believe in you. If some dwarves would rather be short, they're more than capable of abstaining from the medicine. Why must one view be more morally acceptable than the other? If a dwarf who wants to be tall must be tolerant of the dwarves who want to stay short, why can't the dwarves who want to stay short be tolerant of the dwarves who want to be tall? Criticizing someone for something that is for all intents and purposes a lifestyle choice is what's wrong. Not the company making the medicine, and not either group of dwarves with differing views on dwarfism. I explained the logic, if you can't use your own empathy to bridge the gap between your perception and someone elses, I can't be the one to do the work for you. Take it or leave it. |
| "my life at this state could be transposed into a pretty massive biography" - Cneq, "the guy who was literally using BTC in 2012 to make deals in the first main instance of a digital itemized economy forming naturally in all human history (also the precursor of NFTs) and who had 20k+ total trades.", 23 years old MAL's most prolific antivaxxer, Noboru. |
Railey2 said: MadHobbit2 said: Because they view it as an attack on their very being. Consciously deciding to not be a dwarf and to seek treatment implies that being a dwarf is bad and undesireable, which is why some dwarves find it offensive. And again, I want to stress that I agree that a resentful dwarf should just be the bigger person (hurr) and let it go, but can you really not see how some people might feel like this?If some dwarves would rather be short, they're more than capable of abstaining from the medicine. Why must one view be more morally acceptable than the other? If a dwarf who wants to be tall must be tolerant of the dwarves who want to stay short, why can't the dwarves who want to stay short be tolerant of the dwarves who want to be tall? Criticizing someone for something that is for all intents and purposes a lifestyle choice is what's wrong. Not the company making the medicine, and not either group of dwarves with differing views on dwarfism. I explained the logic, if you can't use your own empathy to bridge the gap between your perception and someone elses, I can't be the one to do the work for you. Take it or leave it. I honestly don't understand how someone could be so petty and insecure about their identity. That kind of resentment serves no purpose other than to antagonize and attack others for not conforming to one's own ideals. If being a dwarf means so much to someone that they can't handle the fact that other people would rather not be dwarves, they need a reality check: there's more than one way to live, and their way isn't always the right way. |
| When you stand at the cliff's edge, staring into the darkness below, the most horrifying realization is not that you might slip, but that you could leap. |
| That's a grudgin' ! Nah, what's the problem with that, some peoples get offended waay too easily. |
 |
| *Elsewhere in Japan, Conan exults in the distance. At last! He won't be a kid forever. Twenty years he surprises Ran.* |
 |
| >"Dwarf Pride" Imagine being proud of having a Napoleon Complex, having to stare at sweaty/smelly backs and asses while waiting in line, being compared to fictional characters from mythology/fantasy that are known for being assholes, having limited dating options, possibly being mistaken for a kid if you also have a babyface, not being able to reach things, etc... EDIT: To be fair though, I'd actually have alot of respect for a dwarf who had the guts to embrace the stereotype by growing their beard down past their stomach and becoming the life of a party after drinking all while in full LoTR cosplay. |
Lost_VikingNov 19, 2019 6:29 PM
 |
| I listened to a piece on NPR about this a few weeks and basically what it said was the rich do it but screw the poor. |
| Life Is Short But Intense. |
Lost_Viking said: possibly being mistaken for a kid if you also have a babyface In other news....... https://www.bbc.com/news/newsbeat-50319910 |
| "Dwarf pride" is a coping mechanism for dealing with the lemons that life gave them. If a person born deaf, or blind, or crippled can gain hearing, sight, or limbs (especially now with bionic prosthetics), then they would do it in a heartbeat. Why is it any different for dwarfism? |
| This is good. Too much research goes toward prolonging life when the focus should be on procedures that improve the quality of life as it is. Cosmetic ailments result in discrimination and directly impact a person's professional potential. Fixing a cleft palate is one of the cheapest and most effective ways to relieve suffering beyond someone's control, yet it's not a priority in the eyes of a public who only care about their fellow man when he's growing in a uterus or heading to the grave. |
| WTF is even 'dwarf pride'? |
 |
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