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A new treatment promises to make little people taller. Is it an insult to ‘dwarf pride’?

#1
Nov 18, 12:40 PM
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Scientists have come up with a drug, injected once a day, that appears to make children’s bones grow. To many, it’s a wondrous invention that could improve the lives of thousands of people with dwarfism. To others, it’s a profit-driven solution in search of a problem, one that could unravel decades of hard-won respect for an entire community.

In the middle are families, doctors, and a pharmaceutical company, all dealing with a philosophically fraught question: Is it ethical to make a little person taller?

There is, however, little dispute over what the future holds. Vosoritide is on track to win FDA approval, leaving all parties to prepare for a world in which height is a matter of choice.

https://www.statnews.com/2019/11/18/a-new-treatment-promises-to-make-little-people-taller-is-it-an-insult-to-dwarf-pride/

its not a matter of choice though but a matter of is it affordable? lol

one good thing about being small is the you get less cancer thats about it
 
#2
Nov 18, 1:02 PM

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Lol, if a new service is gonna detroy decades of "hard-won respect", then there wasn't any real respect to begin with.

Real respect should have nothing to do with whether or not the condition is curable or even affordable.

If their belonging in society is really in danger of collapse because of this than this belonging is superficial at best and they should strive for more.
You are not your body, you are your brain, the "self" that emerges from it.
 
#3
Nov 18, 1:05 PM

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I don't understand how it can be an insult: if some people want to be taller, let them be taller.
"You don't need a reason to live, you just live"
-Nero Vanetti, 91 Days



 
#4
Nov 18, 1:06 PM

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being taller =/= being healthier.
"among monsters and humans, there are only two types.
Those who undergo suffering and spread it to others. And those who undergo suffering and avoid giving it to others."
 
#5
Nov 18, 1:07 PM

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Kind of obvious it would be a good thing if it were safe since that form of dwarfism has other negative effects than just short stature.

hazarddex said:
being taller =/= being healthier.

In this case it is. Read the article.
 
#6
Nov 18, 1:47 PM

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RealTheAbsurdist said:
I don't understand how it can be an insult: if some people want to be taller, let them be taller.
because the implication is that being a dwarf is an undesirable condition as opposed to being a neutral or positive thing.
Imagine someone invented a drug that made people who looked similar to you look less like you. The RealAbsurdistFaceFix drug. Anyone who looks like you can take it and change their face. Do you see?

I'm just explaining the logic btw, not gonna comment on if I'm for or against it.
 
#7
Nov 18, 2:21 PM

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Lol, what a surprise, some people seems like if they are always waiting an excuse to be offended.

If it works and someone wants to be taller then there shouldn't be any issues.

 
#8
Nov 18, 4:10 PM

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Railey2 said:
RealTheAbsurdist said:
I don't understand how it can be an insult: if some people want to be taller, let them be taller.
because the implication is that being a dwarf is an undesirable condition as opposed to being a neutral or positive thing.
Imagine someone invented a drug that made people who looked similar to you look less like you. The RealAbsurdistFaceFix drug. Anyone who looks like you can take it and change their face. Do you see?

I'm just explaining the logic btw, not gonna comment on if I'm for or against it.

But that doesn't take into consideration the many people with this condition who would prefer to be taller and DO believe that dwarfism is undesirable. Just because a company creates a medicine to make people taller doesn't mean they hate short people or believe that being short is a bad thing. They're simply offering a service to people who want it. And there must be a large enough group of people who want it, otherwise they wouldn't invest so much time and money to create it.
 
#9
Nov 18, 4:22 PM

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Now make a drug to make people smaller. I'd be making myself short whenever I want to get ragdolled and back to my usual height when I want to be the ragdoller.
"I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but it's probably going to involve frogs. I freakin' hate those things."
- Albert Einstein
 
Nov 18, 5:05 PM

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well, tall things are the first thing to get thunderbolted when it's raining though. that's another good thing about being small. less chance of dying.

oh well, i kinda understand that many companies uses a height standard for their new recruits and this might hinder skilled people to get a satisfactory job because their physical body doesn't meet the requirement. that's the reality today.

well, if you can't find a suitable job for you, make one yourself. we're living in a very convenient world atm. everyone can turn almost every simple daily chores into a job (i haven't found a job about breathing, like you pay someone to breath for you).
 
Nov 18, 6:09 PM

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People accepted it because they had no choice. We have always advanced medicine to help with medical issues that negatively impact people and this is no different.

I can see you


 
Nov 18, 9:22 PM

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MadHobbit2 said:
Railey2 said:
because the implication is that being a dwarf is an undesirable condition as opposed to being a neutral or positive thing.
Imagine someone invented a drug that made people who looked similar to you look less like you. The RealAbsurdistFaceFix drug. Anyone who looks like you can take it and change their face. Do you see?

I'm just explaining the logic btw, not gonna comment on if I'm for or against it.

But that doesn't take into consideration the many people with this condition who would prefer to be taller and DO believe that dwarfism is undesirable. Just because a company creates a medicine to make people taller doesn't mean they hate short people or believe that being short is a bad thing. They're simply offering a service to people who want it. And there must be a large enough group of people who want it, otherwise they wouldn't invest so much time and money to create it.
The fact that they would prefer to be taller is the entire point, that's why it's insulting: the dwarves that want the medicine see it as a condition that needs treatment, and the company that provides the medicine complies. Now ask yourself: How does that come across to someone who feels strongly about being a dwarf? Count 1 and 1 together will ya. Put yourself in their tiny shoes, you can do it I believe in you.
Modified by Railey2, Nov 18, 9:27 PM
 
Nov 18, 9:56 PM

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I can already imagine bodybuilders illegally injecting large quantities of this into their bodies.

But yea, asking us "is it ethical" is quite ridiculous. If there is a cure to a certain disease/condition, then let the people who want to be cured use it.

@Railey2 if there's a "cure" that turns homosexual people heterosexual would it be an insult to "gay pride"? I mean would a person who feels strongly about being a homosexual be bothered by the fact that some people who were born with the same "condition" do not want to spend the rest of their lives the same way he or she does? I can see why some people may think it's offensive but I kind of disagree.
Modified by 149597871, Nov 18, 10:21 PM
 
Nov 18, 10:06 PM

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149597871 said:
I can already imagine bodybuilders illegally injecting large quantities of this into their bodies.

But yea, asking us "is it ethical" is quite ridiculous. If there is a cure to a certain disease/condition, then let the people who want to be cured use it.

Unlikely because it effects bones not muscles.
 
Nov 18, 10:13 PM

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traed said:
149597871 said:
I can already imagine bodybuilders illegally injecting large quantities of this into their bodies.

But yea, asking us "is it ethical" is quite ridiculous. If there is a cure to a certain disease/condition, then let the people who want to be cured use it.

Unlikely because it effects bones not muscles.


The right bone structure allows you to attain a muscular physique more easily and people with larger bones are usually a lot more muscular although it is not always the case obviously. Sadly, I'm pretty sure that some people I know would be probably interested in this "cure" for the aforementioned reasons despite not being actual dwarfs.
 
Nov 18, 10:24 PM

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149597871 said:
I can already imagine bodybuilders illegally injecting large quantities of this into their bodies.

But yea, asking us "is it ethical" is quite ridiculous. If there is a cure to a certain disease/condition, then let the people who want to be cured use it.

@Railey2 if there's a "cure" that turns homosexual people heterosexual would it be an insult to "gay pride"? I mean would a person who feels strongly about being a homosexual be bothered by the fact that some people who were born with the same "condition" do not want to spend the rest of their lives the same way he or she does? I can see why some people may think it's offensive but I kind of disagree.
you don't have to agree. I merely explained how some people might take offense, that's all. I don't think I'd personally take offense if I was a dwarf either. If people don't want to be dwarves, it's good that there's treatment available.
 
Nov 18, 11:33 PM

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I don't see anything wrong with that, it sounds to me like a good thing.




私のためにあなたの愛は存在しない場合でも
あなたのための私の愛は常に無限になります。

 
Nov 19, 12:05 AM

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149597871 said:
traed said:

Unlikely because it effects bones not muscles.


The right bone structure allows you to attain a muscular physique more easily and people with larger bones are usually a lot more muscular although it is not always the case obviously. Sadly, I'm pretty sure that some people I know would be probably interested in this "cure" for the aforementioned reasons despite not being actual dwarfs.

Wouldn't that be more about bone density not size? Anyway nah the new thing body builders are into is SARMs.
 
Nov 19, 2:31 AM

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It can make bones grow, what about muscles, cartilage and tendons? It could be putting those people in a world of pain with severely mess up bodies.
 
Nov 19, 7:59 AM

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Railey2 said:
MadHobbit2 said:

But that doesn't take into consideration the many people with this condition who would prefer to be taller and DO believe that dwarfism is undesirable. Just because a company creates a medicine to make people taller doesn't mean they hate short people or believe that being short is a bad thing. They're simply offering a service to people who want it. And there must be a large enough group of people who want it, otherwise they wouldn't invest so much time and money to create it.
The fact that they would prefer to be taller is the entire point, that's why it's insulting: the dwarves that want the medicine see it as a condition that needs treatment, and the company that provides the medicine complies. Now ask yourself: How does that come across to someone who feels strongly about being a dwarf? Count 1 and 1 together will ya. Put yourself in their tiny shoes, you can do it I believe in you.

If some dwarves would rather be short, they're more than capable of abstaining from the medicine. Why must one view be more morally acceptable than the other? If a dwarf who wants to be tall must be tolerant of the dwarves who want to stay short, why can't the dwarves who want to stay short be tolerant of the dwarves who want to be tall? Criticizing someone for something that is for all intents and purposes a lifestyle choice is what's wrong. Not the company making the medicine, and not either group of dwarves with differing views on dwarfism.
 
Nov 19, 8:03 AM

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MadHobbit2 said:
Railey2 said:
The fact that they would prefer to be taller is the entire point, that's why it's insulting: the dwarves that want the medicine see it as a condition that needs treatment, and the company that provides the medicine complies. Now ask yourself: How does that come across to someone who feels strongly about being a dwarf? Count 1 and 1 together will ya. Put yourself in their tiny shoes, you can do it I believe in you.

If some dwarves would rather be short, they're more than capable of abstaining from the medicine. Why must one view be more morally acceptable than the other? If a dwarf who wants to be tall must be tolerant of the dwarves who want to stay short, why can't the dwarves who want to stay short be tolerant of the dwarves who want to be tall? Criticizing someone for something that is for all intents and purposes a lifestyle choice is what's wrong. Not the company making the medicine, and not either group of dwarves with differing views on dwarfism.
Because they view it as an attack on their very being. Consciously deciding to not be a dwarf and to seek treatment implies that being a dwarf is bad and undesireable, which is why some dwarves find it offensive. And again, I want to stress that I agree that a resentful dwarf should just be the bigger person (hurr) and let it go, but can you really not see how some people might feel like this?

I explained the logic, if you can't use your own empathy to bridge the gap between your perception and someone elses, I can't be the one to do the work for you. Take it or leave it.
 
Nov 19, 9:52 AM

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Railey2 said:
MadHobbit2 said:

If some dwarves would rather be short, they're more than capable of abstaining from the medicine. Why must one view be more morally acceptable than the other? If a dwarf who wants to be tall must be tolerant of the dwarves who want to stay short, why can't the dwarves who want to stay short be tolerant of the dwarves who want to be tall? Criticizing someone for something that is for all intents and purposes a lifestyle choice is what's wrong. Not the company making the medicine, and not either group of dwarves with differing views on dwarfism.
Because they view it as an attack on their very being. Consciously deciding to not be a dwarf and to seek treatment implies that being a dwarf is bad and undesireable, which is why some dwarves find it offensive. And again, I want to stress that I agree that a resentful dwarf should just be the bigger person (hurr) and let it go, but can you really not see how some people might feel like this?

I explained the logic, if you can't use your own empathy to bridge the gap between your perception and someone elses, I can't be the one to do the work for you. Take it or leave it.


I honestly don't understand how someone could be so petty and insecure about their identity. That kind of resentment serves no purpose other than to antagonize and attack others for not conforming to one's own ideals. If being a dwarf means so much to someone that they can't handle the fact that other people would rather not be dwarves, they need a reality check: there's more than one way to live, and their way isn't always the right way.
 
Nov 19, 10:46 AM

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That's a grudgin' !

Nah, what's the problem with that, some peoples get offended waay too easily.
 
Nov 19, 11:05 AM
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@Railey2

on a utilitarianism point of view im sure most people would love to be enough tall at least especially we males in this modern society too
 
Nov 19, 12:07 PM

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*Elsewhere in Japan, Conan exults in the distance. At last! He won't be a kid forever. Twenty years he surprises Ran.*
 
Nov 19, 6:13 PM

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>"Dwarf Pride"
Imagine being proud of having a Napoleon Complex, having to stare at sweaty/smelly backs and asses while waiting in line, being compared to fictional characters from mythology/fantasy that are known for being assholes, having limited dating options, possibly being mistaken for a kid if you also have a babyface, not being able to reach things, etc...

EDIT:
To be fair though, I'd actually have alot of respect for a dwarf who had the guts to embrace the stereotype by growing their beard down past their stomach and becoming the life of a party after drinking all while in full LoTR cosplay.
Modified by Lost_Viking, Nov 19, 6:29 PM
 
Nov 19, 7:29 PM

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Lost_Viking said:
>"Dwarf Pride"
Imagine being proud of having a Napoleon Complex, having to stare at sweaty/smelly backs and asses while waiting in line, being compared to fictional characters from mythology/fantasy that are known for being assholes, having limited dating options, possibly being mistaken for a kid if you also have a babyface, not being able to reach things, etc...
.


I mean people have pride in being gay so lol yeah there are plenty of silly things people slap "X Pride" on.
 
Nov 19, 7:32 PM

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I listened to a piece on NPR about this a few weeks and basically what it said was the rich do it but screw the poor.
Life Is Short But Intense.
 
Nov 19, 7:37 PM

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Lost_Viking said:
possibly being mistaken for a kid if you also have a babyface

In other news.......
https://www.bbc.com/news/newsbeat-50319910
 
Nov 19, 7:49 PM

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"Dwarf pride" is a coping mechanism for dealing with the lemons that life gave them. If a person born deaf, or blind, or crippled can gain hearing, sight, or limbs (especially now with bionic prosthetics), then they would do it in a heartbeat. Why is it any different for dwarfism?
 
Nov 20, 12:08 AM

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This is good. Too much research goes toward prolonging life when the focus should be on procedures that improve the quality of life as it is. Cosmetic ailments result in discrimination and directly impact a person's professional potential. Fixing a cleft palate is one of the cheapest and most effective ways to relieve suffering beyond someone's control, yet it's not a priority in the eyes of a public who only care about their fellow man when he's growing in a uterus or heading to the grave.
 
Nov 20, 1:11 AM

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That sounds awesome I mean shit I'd shell out 10K if it meant being 6'0" instead of 5'6" (heck even just 5'9" might be worth it). I've never really given much thought to my height but hey being tall can do a lot to help you earn more money (coming off as more charismatic / dominating is a great tool for climbing up corporate ladders as well as succeeding in negotiations plus I could leverage the better overall looks for higher Youtube Channel performance)
 
Nov 20, 8:51 AM

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WTF is even 'dwarf pride'?
“The sound of the Gion Shoja temple bells echoes the impermanence of all things;
The color of the sala flowers reveals the truth that to flourish is to fall.
The proud do not endure, like a passing dream on a night in spring;
The mighty fall at last, to be no more than dust before the wind.”


 
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