| Be it manga or anime there are a lot of people involved in its production, so how come we the weebs sitting in front of our laptops see the bull***t. For ex: One Piece, Luffy fights some guy, he's overpowered yet the bad guy just leaves him be instead of killing him (against Crocodile 2 times, against Doflamingo, against Enel, against mochi guy), in Death Note how come no one said to the author: hey dude, why didn't Mikami use the death note prior to the meeting? or how did Light put a tv inside a chips bag? It's a whole team there of animators, directors, producers, editors, writers, some of them with plenty experience yet we see the plot holes and we're just some random anime watchers. And I didn't pick on Naruto or Noein and some from my favs. Discuss. |
    |
| the more the crazier lol same with staff and their products, heck in real world you cannot simply add more workers to ensure the quality of the product (law of diminishing returns) |
Catalano said: Be it manga or anime there are a lot of people involved in its production, so how come we the weebs sitting in front of our laptops see the bull***t. For ex: One Piece, Luffy fights some guy, he's overpowered yet the bad guy just leaves him be instead of killing him (against Crocodile 2 times, against Doflamingo, against Enel, against mochi guy), in Death Note how come no one said to the author: hey dude, why didn't Mikami use the death note prior to the meeting? or how did Light put a tv inside a chips bag? It's a whole team there of animators, directors, producers, editors, writers, some of them with plenty experience yet we see the plot holes and we're just some random anime watchers. And I didn't pick on Naruto or Noein and some from my favs. Discuss. Bruh, that's like asking "Why are people so dumb?" Plot holes can always happen because the author and the editor can forget about the narratives that's already been established, especially if the series is one long ass muthafucka like One Piece (If Luffy was dead, there wouldn't be no One Piece) |
on 
| Sometimes I ask whether things that people say are plot holes are really plot holes. Because sometimes I've found that I don't notice them until someone points them out. Then is it really a plot hole? Other times I feel there is a plausible in-universe explanation for something, even though someone might just call it a plot hole. Then is it really a plot hole? This leads me to my usual interpretation: something is not a plot hole unless I can't think of a plausible (or satisfying) in-universe explanation for it. |
| Avatar character is Gabriel from Gabriel DropOut. |
| Kakashi spamming kamui in the war arc is a plot hole, enemies leaving Luffy instead of killing him is not a plot hole. Plot holes happen because of inconsistencies in story telling. |
 |
Dave_Adrian said: Bruh, that's like asking "Why are people so dumb?" Plot holes can always happen because the author and the editor can forget about the narratives that's already been established, especially if the series is one long ass muthafucka like One Piece (If Luffy was dead, there wouldn't be no One Piece) I don't have a problem with Luffy surviving but why make it like that? I know I'm not the target audience but still I invested a lot in the show. Forgetting it's impossible, OP is too much of a money faucet for WSJ. @GlennMagusHarvey I thought about that too but I'll give you the Noein plot hole: some guys in an universe create a different dimension for Earth but even though they can control time and space they always jump in that certain moment in time where the action of the anime happens, why not go further past if their plans are sidetracked? I saw that anime 3 times and there's no explanation. It's not an in-universe explanation. |
|
| Dude that's not plot hole it is plot convenience. |
 Kickstarter for Rokujouma is fully funded. Good work everyone. Lets wait for the result of our hard work together. |
| Not killing Luffy is just a bad (but obviously necessary) decision from the antagonists, it's not a plot hole. Crocodile kills Luffy, cool, insanely popular anime over in random anticlimactic ending. Doesn't make much sense, does it? |
| One Piece examples aren't even plot holes, Luffy's luck or the lacking approach of his enemies is rather a plot convenience and even that term should be taken with a grain of salt. First time Luffy lost against Croco he was impaled by him and thrown into the quicksand, the second time he drained all the water from his body third time he poisoned him Why should be bother further? He was in a hurry anyway. Enel threw him overboard with a huge golden ball, arrogant he as he is he probably thought, no way he's going to catch up with me and the Maxim. He also planned to sink the Upper Yard. So from his perspective, no way I'm going to lose. Luffy never lost against Flamingo, same for Katakuri. You could criticize them for not taking all necessary measures to dispose of their enemy, but then you could also criticize about 99% of all villains. Imagine a world where villains would just do their thing, fiction would be pretty boring . |
One Piece episode 914 & 915 & 1027 were a mistake and 957 brought the salvation - FMmatron |
CHAMPIONOFDEATH said: Kakashi spamming kamui in the war arc is a plot hole, enemies leaving Luffy instead of killing him is not a plot hole. Plot holes happen because of inconsistencies in story telling. Crocodile wanted to kill Luffy, he had the chance, he had the power, he caught him off guard yet he left him in the sand. Just why? I too want Luffy to win but not like that, why not make him getting rescued by a weird animal by mistake or the evil guy getting attacked by someone else and sidetracked, there are a lot of ways here |
|
| i can understand with Noein since its hard science fiction i think https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hard_science_fiction but One Piece is not a hard fantasy i think https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hard_fantasy so as long as its genre has no word of "hard" stuff then its cool just treat them the way asspulls are treated |
Catalano said: Be it manga or anime there are a lot of people involved in its production, so how come we the weebs sitting in front of our laptops see the bull***t. For ex: One Piece, Luffy fights some guy, he's overpowered yet the bad guy just leaves him be instead of killing him (against Crocodile 2 times, against Doflamingo, against Enel, against mochi guy), in Death Note how come no one said to the author: hey dude, why didn't Mikami use the death note prior to the meeting? or how did Light put a tv inside a chips bag? It's a whole team there of animators, directors, producers, editors, writers, some of them with plenty experience yet we see the plot holes and we're just some random anime watchers. And I didn't pick on Naruto or Noein and some from my favs. Discuss. CHAMPIONOFDEATH said: Kakashi spamming kamui in the war arc is a plot hole, enemies leaving Luffy instead of killing him is not a plot hole. Plot holes happen because of inconsistencies in story telling. Gotta need to agree here with this brotha.. Leaving Luffy alive aint plot hole, just maybe a bad narrative. Kakashi spamming Kamui left and right without gettin blind or passin out in the war arc tho is definitely a plot hole cuz it retcons an established narrarive. |
| @2ego no problem, tell me the Death Note stuff, I'm satisfied with OP from the posts. |
|
Catalano said: CHAMPIONOFDEATH said: Kakashi spamming kamui in the war arc is a plot hole, enemies leaving Luffy instead of killing him is not a plot hole. Plot holes happen because of inconsistencies in story telling. Crocodile wanted to kill Luffy, he had the chance, he had the power, he caught him off guard yet he left him in the sand. Just why? I too want Luffy to win but not like that, why not make him getting rescued by a weird animal by mistake or the evil guy getting attacked by someone else and sidetracked, there are a lot of ways here @FMmatron describes it perfectly in his reply. |
|
| @Mythologically he didn't get the note directly from Light and for a man so perfectionist as him I would say he could've tried it to see if it's the real one. They were heading for a dangerous battle. When I go downtown and I get my smokes I always check if the lighter works. |
|
| Maybe that is because so many people involved that they have more plot inconsistencies.. Like mentioned above, you are not really a random watchers if you can see and think about plotholes, most fanboys don't even think about it ... One Piece was never a show with a logical story, I mean how could one person fight every strong people in the world like he was a center of the world ? It will not be strange to think that god doesn't want to take this center of the world lol ... About Mikami in Death Note I think that is not a plothole, the plothole (or it is more proper to call it plot inconsistency) is Near had really a stupid initial plan in final fight, if Mello didn't save his ass, then he and other NPK agents were e as smart as a grade schoolers.. |
"The Slave is the have-not, the oppressed one with nothing to spare. But because the Slave is in that despairing situation, having nothing, it can kill the Emperor !" |
| @HungryForQuality I thought about it to but it sounds kinda sad, they just don't care. Wouldn't it be more acclaimed if it were better? I know it's only entertainment but still. |
|
| @2ego Death Note happened in 2007 I remember so a mobile device with wifi could be used for the chips scene but that stuff looked like a damn tv :)) and there were lots of conspiracy theories referring to Mikami: one said that damn N used the death note on Mikami, of course, only theoretical because the creators left this stuff in the wind, but it haunts me like when Barcelona is losing a match. |
|
Mythologically said: Damn, I got caught in it and completely forgot about the elephant in the room. Yeah, how he managed that?@2ego The whole thing with the mini-TV is how he managed to slip it into the bag of chips in the first place when his house is under constant surveillance. He legitimately cracks open the bag of chips, and the TV is already inside. |
|
| Also worth pointing out in the examples you listed, the manga is running week by week. They have one week to think of where the story is going and draw it. That is an intense schedule and almost no one can truly keep a story logically consistent with that, something is going to slip through. And in the source material, it's not a "team of animators and directors", but at most 3 people, an author, an illustrator, and an editor. And then couple that with the fact that plot holes exist in stories that took significantly longer to make and did have more people working on them, and I think the question of why anime has plot holes becomes more apparent. Because no one is perfect, decisions are sometimes made earlier in development and it's too late to change them, or the people involved felt it made sense or didn't think it through as they were focused on bigger picture things than the details. |
| You have shit taste, and then I have taste so shit it makes your taste look good |
2ego said: FMmatron said: One Piece examples aren't even plot holes, Luffy's luck or the lacking approach of his enemies is rather a plot convenience and even that term should be taken with a grain of salt. First time Luffy lost against Croco he was impaled by him and thrown into the quicksand, the second time he drained all the water from his body third time he poisoned him Why should be bother further? He was in a hurry anyway. Enel threw him overboard with a huge golden ball, arrogant he as he is he probably thought, no way he's going to catch up with me and the Maxim. He also planned to sink the Upper Yard. So from his perspective, no way I'm going to lose. Luffy never lost against Flamingo, same for Katakuri. You could criticize them for not taking all necessary measures to dispose of their enemy, but then you could also criticize about 99% of all villains. Imagine a world where villains would just do their thing, fiction would be pretty boring . Murder isn't interpreted as "Oh this guy might potentially try to get in my way, ah I'll just murder him then" in One Piece, it has a more realistic approach, almost no one goes around killing anyone that they dislike...except Doffy of course. Except, Luffy's enemies all had a pretty good reason and somehow I can agree with OP, if I would be the villain, then I would be able to come up with dozens of ways to get rid of Luffy, even in a fight. Altough, the thing is, many methods are just not serviceable enough to please a huge crowd. And when it comes to action or battle shounen, many writers care foremost to deliver something stylish that is spectacular and exciting. Most of the viewership isn't talking about the best written series, but the one with the coolest presentation. |
One Piece episode 914 & 915 & 1027 were a mistake and 957 brought the salvation - FMmatron |
| @MaskOfIce I too think I used kinda bad examples (agree with the tight schedule) so I'll write something about Noein who is an original, maybe someone will pick this up and formulate a better explanation. So these guys need Haruka yet can't defeat a single soldier Karasu, they go time-space travel and there's no auto-destruct if Karasu betrays us (I kinda can accept that). Noein discovers Haruka but can't kidnap her because of who? Karasu? he's weak compared to him. And why Lacryma guys didn't time-space travel to before Noein appeared in that particular dimension? because they have the tech, Noein barely discovered it, it was even created by Lacryma, just take Haruka who they now know she's Dragon Torque and erase Noein dimension. Still a great anime though. |
|
| I can be wrong, but sometimes the author wants the plot to go on one direction, but when he's writing the story his decisions in the process of writing it are leading the plot to another direction, so he'd need to force the plot to go where he wants it to go, creating plot holes or plot inconsistencies. It could also be because mangakas don't have time to redo their scripts, because of some insane deadlines, needing to stick with the first or second version of the plot. Also because some authors are just dumb. |
 |
Catalano said: Mythologically said: Damn, I got caught in it and completely forgot about the elephsant in the room. Yeah, how he managed that?@2ego The whole thing with the mini-TV is how he managed to slip it into the bag of chips in the first place when his house is under constant surveillance. He legitimately cracks open the bag of chips, and the TV is already inside. He could easily hide the TV device in his hand or something and slip it in when he opened the bag? It's not hard to come up with reasonable explanations for a lot of supposed "plot holes." There are plenty of shows with genuinely bad writing and large plot holes ofc, but most writers aren't as incompetent as they may seem. |
| @Mythologically @Platypus7 He bought both the mini-tv and chips bag outside, put the mini tv in the chips bag and sealed it again. That's how I remember it and makes the most sense. Doubt there's any plothole in this case |
EsquirtitMay 26, 2019 4:08 PM
| poop |
| @Esquirtit no offence but you need a cable to watch the news if that was a TV and there was no cable that connected the chips bag, maybe it was some sort of a touch screen phone with wifi or a lot of mobile data, but it must have been a pain to find a stream for the news. |
|
| cheaper to not fix an issue you started than to fix it bonus points if its slightly subtle and they can get away with it until it hits the market |
 |
| @catalano it's a portable tv it just uses a tv receiver/satellite that's installed in it. there are always basic tv channels where you dont need cable it's free for everyone @mythologically it's not that hard to seal a bag of chips again, have seen it before in pranks. it's Light bro. he did it when he went to buy the mini tv, he didnt already have one in his house |
| poop |
| ^^ Nothing more to add. Sounds pretty solid. |
|
| @Esquirtit that makes sense, been a while since I've read/watched it. Mythologically said: Platypus7 said: He could easily hide the TV device in his hand or something and slip it in when he opened the bag? It's not hard to come up with reasonable explanations for a lot of supposed "plot holes." There are plenty of shows with genuinely bad writing and large plot holes ofc, but most writers aren't as incompetent as they may seem. Yeah the thing is that in the scene he: 1. Rips open the bag 2. The camera shifts to a five-second still shot of his eyes 3. The camera shifts over to the bag of chips and the mini-TV is at the very bottom beneath all of the chips. Him slipping the TV in in those five seconds and burying it beneath all of those chips is unrealistic since it would most definitely look weird on all those cameras that are monitoring him. @Esquirtit how would one go about resealing a bag of chips? Also, what would he have done if anyone else happened to grab that bag? It never showed him going outside around that time, so if that's what happened, he probably did it a decent time before grabbing the bag. I agree that that's the most reasonable explanation, and it's the one I usually come up with, but it still doesn't make sense to me. It would be easy to reseal with glue. Iirc it never showed him going outside but he said he'd gone to buy the chips and mini TV earlier and he hid the bag at the back of a cupboard I think so the chances of anyone taking it randomly were next to zero. @Catalano, pretty sure it was a mini TV, works like a radio but with batteries I think. Edit: Beaten to it |
| I think that a lot of 'plot holes' that people have shitfits over aren't really plot holes at all, and that isn't just because people are so dumb that they misunderstand what they're watching (though that's part of it). Anime is just weirdly written and I think there are plenty of times when the feeling or event is more important than consistency from a creative perspective, so the so called 'plot hole' is mostly inconsequential. Obviously that isn't true for everything though, but I've seen plenty of anime in which the 'plot hole' almost seemed purposeful, and I just chalk it up to cultural differences and anime being very weird. And it's not like plot holes bother me very much anyway. Can't speak on One Piece specifically because I know nothing about it. |
| Becuase people behind the series are human and they make mistakes? Or because they willingly choose what's fun/cool/satisfying over what is most coherent/realistic? Honestly, the whole talk about plot holes is so stupid and happens way too often. 'Plot holes' or slight deviations from what is realistic are easy prey for pseudo critics and their importance is HEAVILY exaggerated. If a person forms an opinion about a show and all they talk about is a fucking plothole they have nothing interesting to say and just look for things to pick on. That is not to say the argument is completely wrong, I do not deny the existence of most plot holes, but the impact they have on quality of the show is severely overrated. Angel Beats is the biggest victim of poor criticism like that, and while the show has many problems, the 'plothole' at the end is not one of them. Hell, if the idiots spent half a minute thinking, they could come up with a sufficient explanation to it, considering just how otherworldly the very idea of a place like purgatory is, accepting it might be disconnected from time itself and connect people from different years decades or even eras, to me, doesn't seem at all hard. Don't even get me started on people writing fucking paragraphs about how stupid it is a character in a movie shot 11 bullets without reloading or that Saeko had a bullet fly in between her titties |
 |
| @Platypus7 It's the most legendary scene in Death Note. I don't even remember what OP is referring to when it comes to Mikami |
| poop |
Esquirtit said: @Platypus7 It's the most legendary scene in Death Note. I don't even remember what OP is referring to when it comes to Mikami I remember the most of the scene vividly, the setup is the hazy part. Pretty sure the Mikami thing is just OP forgetting he hadn't seen the names of N and his crew and therefore had to go to the meeting to see them. |
Catalano said: CHAMPIONOFDEATH said: Kakashi spamming kamui in the war arc is a plot hole, enemies leaving Luffy instead of killing him is not a plot hole. Plot holes happen because of inconsistencies in story telling. Crocodile wanted to kill Luffy, he had the chance, he had the power, he caught him off guard yet he left him in the sand. Just why? I too want Luffy to win but not like that, why not make him getting rescued by a weird animal by mistake or the evil guy getting attacked by someone else and sidetracked, there are a lot of ways here Crocodile left Luffy agonizing in quicksand after piercing his belly. It's not exactly a scenario you'd expect anybody to survive, and in fact somebody helped him when Crocodile was away. Luffy would have died here if it wasn't for that external help. Second time was mere luck by Luffy for being in the right moment and place because he had been dried out and was about to die any minute. |
| Most of the staff is not involved with things like plot, cohesion of the story, etc. If there's a plot hole, the guilty one(s) should generally be the writers and/or directors. |
"Doubting everything that you take on... That is very important. Open your own eyes, clear out your ears, and look and listen to the world... And think using your own brain. After you've doubted everything, there is a possibility of something real to believe in. To believe in something, doubt everything." |
Platypus7 said: Esquirtit said: @Platypus7 It's the most legendary scene in Death Note. I don't even remember what OP is referring to when it comes to Mikami I remember the most of the scene vividly, the setup is the hazy part. Pretty sure the Mikami thing is just OP forgetting he hadn't seen the names of N and his crew and therefore had to go to the meeting to see them. I'm referring to why didn't mikami check if the notebook was real on a random person prior to the meeting. Of course he had to be there and he knew he would have to kill N and the gangrene gand by watching them. |
|
Catalano said: I'm not familiar with Noein but my feeling on that is that we're calling something a "plot hole" because we perceive an inconsistency, and so essentially it's just an inconsistency by another name.@GlennMagusHarvey I thought about that too but I'll give you the Noein plot hole: some guys in an universe create a different dimension for Earth but even though they can control time and space they always jump in that certain moment in time where the action of the anime happens, why not go further past if their plans are sidetracked? I saw that anime 3 times and there's no explanation. It's not an in-universe explanation. I'm not saying what happened in Noein isn't a plot hole. I guess you could say I'm chalking it up to "it's a plot hole if you feel it is one". Which is basically my original point anyway. Also this leaves open the notion of "it's not a plot hole if you don't want it to be one" -- this is where stuff like "rule of cool" comes into play, where something happens and we accept it because it just makes a story more fun for example. |
| Avatar character is Gabriel from Gabriel DropOut. |
| Your question is a plothole. You could have sent a mail to WSJ or Toei, but instead decided to ask a group of people who might not even draw a proper circle. |
| :v |
| So....I think the best way to avoid this is to make a LIST of questions to ask yourself when you write a story and write the answers to each one that will be revealed in the story. Evidently lots of people don't do this. |
  |
More topics from this board
» Would you rather watch Anime blind or deaf?Dragevard - 56 minutes ago |
5 |
by LSSJ_Gaming
»»
45 seconds ago |
|
» Criticism You Don't Understand.Alpha_1_Zero - 3 hours ago |
1 |
by LSSJ_Gaming
»»
2 minutes ago |
|
» Is it weird to be attracted to anime characters under the age of 18? ( 1 2 )bluefin2004 - Yesterday |
58 |
by LostSpectre
»»
2 minutes ago |
|
» Post the Last Anime Items you bought ( 1 2 )SpeedyAlchemist - Mar 10 |
73 |
by Toooooooooohru
»»
3 minutes ago |
|
» Why do people complain about "rapey" characters in anime?Alpha_1_Zero - 3 hours ago |
3 |
by LSSJ_Gaming
»»
3 minutes ago |