| You can't make a better Legend of the Galactic Heroes. If you haven't at least seen that I can't take you seriously. |
| “Loddfafnir, listen to my counsel: You will fare well if you follow it, It will help you much if you heed it. If aware that another is wicked, say so: Make no truce or treaty with foes.” - Havamal 127 |
CatSoul said: AshitaNoJonas said: Why watch Yu Yu Hakusho, when you could watch Black Clover instead? You lost me here. You just compared a diamond to a pile of trash that's been lit on fire, pissed on by hobos, and then lit on fire again. These diamonds are exactly why younger fans should check out older anime. The only modern-day shonen I can think of that lives up to YYH's legacy is HxH. Except that HxH actually was made only a couple of years later than YYH, HxH isn't exactly modern. |
| In terms of visuals, I think a lot of new anime actually looks pretty rough. Just because the work is now digital doesn't mean it's going to be better in terms of quality. Both new and old anime have budget/technical problems, and with the huge amount of anime coming out every season, the chances of finding something today that looks like ass is much higher. |
| I just don’t like the old art animation designs |
 |
Mythologically said: No. This is also a stretch. There are just as much if not more corner cutting in averago now than back then. The industry just can't put out 100 anime a season in consistently good quality. There are maybe 4 studios which can keep their visual quality consistently high (KyoAni, Bones, Trigger and Shaftt), but those generally only make one series every other season. That isn't faster than the rate by the industry worked before the 2000s. The rest of the anime being made is really not that great.On the other hand, it's not a stretch to say that on average, modern anime art is better.  (2017)  (1993) |
  |
| @Mythologically You prefer the illogical light source/shading, or the absence of any defining feature or detail besides their hairstyles? I'm just being annoying for the laugh here, I'm sure we can find a better pic to represent modern anime... yet you pick the first one. Hmmmm... the background, maybe? |
Prophetess of the Golden Era  |
Deathko said: @Mythologically You prefer the illogical light source/shading, or the absence of any defining feature or detail besides their hairstyles? I'm just being annoying for the laugh here, I'm sure we can find a better pic to represent modern anime... yet you pick the first one. Hmmmm... the background, maybe? I'd pick the first for the artstyle. Tsuki ga kirei, right? Its pastel look is quite soothing to watch. One of the reasons why I have it in my PTW. The second is more expressive and lively though, but less artsy. |
jal90Feb 9, 2019 3:09 PM
Mythologically said: Heldengeist said: No. This is also a stretch. There are just as much if not more corner cutting in averago now than back then. The industry just can't put out 100 anime a season in consistently good quality. There are maybe 4 studios which can keep their visual quality consistently high (KyoAni, Bones, Trigger and Shaftt), but those generally only make one series every other season. That isn't faster than the rate by the industry worked before the 2000s. The rest of the anime being made is really not that great. (2017) (1993) Forgive me for being a brainless idiot but I am much more visually attracted to the first image than the second. Yes, because of personal preference. But it's not like the art style of Ah! My Goddess! is inferior to Tsuki ga Kirei in any way. Personally I prefer the art style of Ah! My Goddess! over Tsuki ga Kirei, but it's not like I can't understand why someone wouldn't agree with me. |
| @jal90 Yes... I generally agree with you, tbh... but once again, there's nothing obvious or objective about the quality of composition or artstyles. Now if people picked their words carefully or had objective arguments to back up their "objective" opinions this discussion would have happened another way. The only objective thing I can say about both artstyles while comparing them, is that the light source is drunk and the detail count very low on the first. And the background miiiiles more detailed and photorealistic. That's... slightly weird when you think of it (^% |
Prophetess of the Golden Era |
| @Deathko yeah, I actually agree with you a lot in this thread, it's just that I disagree on examples, you talking negatively about the lighting of this show and me like what why this is the reason why I have it in my PTW xD |
Heldengeist said: Mythologically said: No. This is also a stretch. There are just as much if not more corner cutting in averago now than back then. The industry just can't put out 100 anime a season in consistently good quality. There are maybe 4 studios which can keep their visual quality consistently high (KyoAni, Bones, Trigger and Shaftt), but those generally only make one series every other season. That isn't faster than the rate by the industry worked before the 2000s. The rest of the anime being made is really not that great.On the other hand, it's not a stretch to say that on average, modern anime art is better. (2017) (1993) Man, looking at this reminds me that anime used to have noses wow. |
| I honestly don't know how can people prefer that first image xD, no offense, to each their own, but really, the lack of consistency between the lightning/coloring/level of detail for the characters and the lightning/coloring/level of detail for the background inevitably brings a sense of discomfort... at least to me. This lack of consistency wasn't really ever present in old anime (as far as I'm concerned)... |
| @jal90 TBH I had no idea of what show it was, I barely follow seasonals since a while. I'll probably get around watching 2017 shows... in 10 years :p, and I'll watch that one then if the artstyle does indeed stand out. It was mosty bad faith from my side since lots of things I love in animation don't exactly look good in screenshots (most of Kill la Kill?). Maybe the 50+ barely animated episodic shonen of the 70s will put a stop to my quest and bring me back to objectively and obviously better looking anime, who knows (^% |
Prophetess of the Golden Era |
Deathko said: @jal90 TBH I had no idea of what show it was, I barely follow seasonals since a while. I'll probably get around watching 2017 shows... in 10 years :p, and I'll watch that one then if the artstyle does indeed stand out. It was mosty bad faith from my side since lots of things I love in animation don't exactly look good in screenshots (most of Kill la Kill?). Maybe the 50+ barely animated episodic shonen of the 70s will put a stop to my quest and bring me back to objectively and obviously better looking anime, who knows (^% Ah, I haven't watched it, that's why I first doubted, but I found the style quite recognizable from pics and clips I have seen xD Not like I want to defend that show anyway beyond my "I find that style curious and cute and that's why I want to watch it", so there's not much of a disagreement or an intent of here. |
Chrawnus said: It didn't have to be that, It was just the first rondom anime I clicked on, I scrolled somepace at random and took a screenshot.Yes, because of personal preference. But it's not like the art style of Ah! My Goddess! is inferior to Tsuki ga Kirei in any way. Personally I prefer the art style of Ah! My Goddess! over Tsuki ga Kirei, but it's not like I can't understand why someone wouldn't agree with me. Other than Tsuki ga Kirei really isn't a good looking series, I could have also chosen almost any other recent anime that wasn't made by the previously mentioned studios as comparison. |
|
Heldengeist said: Chrawnus said: It didn't have to be that, It was just the first rondom anime I clicked on, I scrolled somepace at random and took a screenshot.Yes, because of personal preference. But it's not like the art style of Ah! My Goddess! is inferior to Tsuki ga Kirei in any way. Personally I prefer the art style of Ah! My Goddess! over Tsuki ga Kirei, but it's not like I can't understand why someone wouldn't agree with me. Other than Tsuki ga Kirei really isn't a good looking series, I could have also chosen almost any other recent anime that wasn't made by the previously mentioned studios as comparison. I'm not really sure that we're in disagreement in the first place. |
| Where is the guy named @Pullman ? Isn't he supposed to appear and use one of his pre-made answers when people starts summoning "quality" in old VS new "debates? |
AshitaNoJonas said: I think your friend is an asshole for starters lmao. Yeah, I see what you mean about people thinking newer is better. I have a friend that prefers Darling in The Franxx over Eva (wtf I know). The way it looks has a big effect on fans today not liking it though. I personally don’t care if it looks older though. For most fans of old anime it's hard to comprehend why so many people refuse to watch old anime. Sure, it has probably something do to with the fact that old anime looks different from what they're used too. Different colors, different character design and overall art style. And depending on what kind of anime it, the animation itself might be pretty rough (this seems to be the biggest criticism from modern fans, but should be a non-issue for most OVAs and movies). But I don't think that is really the main reason why old shows are rarely checked out by young fans. I think it has something to do with the preconception that everything that has been done in the past, has been done better in modern times and became obsolete. Therefore to them, everything new is automatically better than everything old. Why watch Yu Yu Hakusho, when you could watch Black Clover instead? Why watch Macross when you can watch Code Geass instead? And so on and so forth. However what people fail to realize is, that anime always had trends and phases. So anime from the past isn't just an inferior version of what we have now, it's something completely different mostly. So by not watching old anime, you're actually skipping over all sorts of different type of shows that would never be made today (for better or for worse). Also, there are so many unique anime, that you can't just make a better version of it (like Eva). (I noticed something similar when I was talking to a friend about video games: I would tell him about this game called Shenmue from the early 2000s and he would always interrupt me and tell me I should just buy a PS4 instead, even though there really isn't a game like that on PS4, except Shenmue itself on PS4 [I'm playing on PC for clarification]). What do you think? |
| I don’t understand why some people get so worked up over modern anime fans refusing to watch older anime. Let people watch what they want to watch, they’re not obliged to watch your beloved classics. |
| I don't watch old anime because anything that came out pre-2006 has dogshit art. |
Nanaya-kun said: DepravedMagi said: I don’t understand why some people get so worked up over modern anime fans refusing to watch older anime. Let people watch what they want to watch, they’re not obliged to watch your beloved classics. True, can't wait when modern anime fans become old anime fans and new fags refuse to watch their ugly cgi infested digital anime in 10 years or so ... how will that feel suckers?! And that'll probably hold more truth than the current gen's arguments, because current anime won't look pretty upscaled for 4k... cel-based anime don't have this problem, at least when there's enough interest in the show to get a HD edition. |
Prophetess of the Golden Era |
Uh yeah, no. The "After" Frieza looks as if he lost a few chromosomes along the way |
DepravedMagi said: I don’t understand why some people get so worked up over modern anime fans refusing to watch older anime. Let people watch what they want to watch, they’re not obliged to watch your beloved classics. But one thing is letting them watching what they want (i.e. only anime from 2006 onwards because anime from previous years "looks like dogshit", like the user that posted right after you) without criticizing them, and another different thing is other people trying to understand the causes why these people refuse to watch them... which is also totally legit.... |
| Advocating for old anime is a tiring business that serves little to no purpose. How many of you started watching shows from back then because a certain someone convinced you that they were great? I bet not many... And most of the times is just cherry picking. Hell, I even dislike how plenty of the examples of old anime shared in this thread look. Of course the dude you're debating with will do the same with a current show. Of course they will believe newer shows look better if they amount to the 95% of what they consume. I believe giving older series a chance is something that must come from oneself, if you really dedicate time to this hobby and have any sort of curiosity in its history. You'll always benefit from having 40+ years of content to choose from than just 10-15. Particularly when really talented people are scarce and some of them have long trajectories (so it's not so much about the anime being X years old but it's also the creator you enjoyed from a recent show). And finally the obvious that almost hurts to mention everytime. There's good and bad in every period, not only in terms of story but visually. And even if some very broad aspects of the art/animation go in a certain direction, there's always a lot of artstyles to choose from. |
 |
This is what I'm watching at the moment: https://looneytunes.fandom.com/wiki/Hollywood_Capers I'm born in 1989. |
CaptainZoro said: Its simple, do ya want a brand new smartphone or an old flip phone? Young people, young stuff no one use flip phone not even old people By your logic, one piece is a garbage anime compared with newer anime just because it's new and only people who lived for hundreds and thousand years who enjoy media depicting history, epic lol |
 |
| I'm back & see that person i was arguing with is still having a rough time :[ Forgot their name already LOL |
 If anyone does not love the Lord Jesus Christ Let him be accursed O Lord, Amen! |
| 1 word DORORO see, adaptations allow younger fans to watch older anime in art styles we can appreciate better. WE NEED REMAKES! :) |
| Honestly I just haven't seen many older anime that look interesting to me. As of now the oldest thing I've seen is from 1990,and I don't see myself going older anytime soon |
| So many people talking about old vs new and both sides are mixing art and animation into one thing. Fking plebs. |
 |
Heldengeist said: Mythologically said: No. This is also a stretch. There are just as much if not more corner cutting in averago now than back then. The industry just can't put out 100 anime a season in consistently good quality. There are maybe 4 studios which can keep their visual quality consistently high (KyoAni, Bones, Trigger and Shaftt), but those generally only make one series every other season. That isn't faster than the rate by the industry worked before the 2000s. The rest of the anime being made is really not that great.On the other hand, it's not a stretch to say that on average, modern anime art is better. (2017) (1993) Hey dude, I love ah my goddess but there plently of better scenes to pick if you wanted to make a point. LOL. |
|
DepravedMagi said: I don’t understand why some people get so worked up over modern anime fans refusing to watch older anime. Let people watch what they want to watch, they’re not obliged to watch your beloved classics. Refusing history is dumb, sorry to say it like that but it's a fact. You should know the history of anything you like (if you truly like it of course) or that is important (not saying that anime is important tho). Seeing people praising some shit that has been done before 10 times better is kinda annoying. Not saying that old>new, but some old shows are unique and they truly are better than newer ones as well as some new ones are better than old ones. |
|
Psajdak said: Well, you can't deny that some things have really improved over time... Before:  After:  Before:  After:  That DBZ character looks way better in the earlier pic. The second one is higher res and better picture quality, but the art is far worse. Dude has zero facial structure and a spherical head, and look at the way their necks are drawn. I think that 'picture quality' thing is a factor- people get used to a certain amount of resolution, and they conflate a high *picture* quality, with high quality anime in general, despite the fact those two things are completely independent. But also people watch current-season stuff for different reasons to watching old, not-current stuff; you watch current stuff to be up to date with the shows people are talking about right now- it has a social aspect. But if you're watching a show from 2002, pretty-much no-one will be watching it at the same time/pace as you- theres no big reveals or big events to get excited about, and no "OMG did you see what happened last episode?!" You're just watching it for your ownn enjoyment, not to keep up with what everyone else is talking about. So if you got into anime largely because youlike that aspect of being up with what your freinds are talking about, of course you'll be less likely to want to watch stuff that doesn't have that aspect- it's a different kind of appeal that draws different people. But the other thing is, if you only watch current-season shows, your choice is limited to however many shows are airing this season- to a certain degree you're forced to take what they give you. In a shit season, you watch shit shows. But if you watch stuff from any era, you have literally >100x more options, with nothing limiting you- you CAN watch current season stuff... AND a bunch of other stuff too. To me, thats a big part of why I don't watch currently airing stuff- far more freedom and choice. Plus, I hate watching one episode then being forced to wait a week or whatever til I can see what happens next. I'd rather just watch something else til the season is fully aired, then start watching ep1, so I can get thru the season as fast or slow as I want. |
DaCraziGuy said: So many people talking about old vs new and both sides are mixing art and animation into one thing. Fking plebs. Welcome to MAL, where people praise a show's animation for its backgrounds, and bash another's for its artstyle. And where the most vindicative have the least arguments to offer. @Necromia I love how you say that with kawaii 16-bit era sprites in your sig :p |
DeathkoFeb 9, 2019 5:38 PM
Prophetess of the Golden Era |
| Older anime's art styles aren't as kawaii in todays standards. |
 |
| Honestly, you made a good point imo. I will admit I've mostly watched recent anime. It's not that I don't want to watch older anime rather I just never really thought of it. I'll look up some older anime to watch next time I get the chance. |
AshitaNoJonas said: But I don't think that is really the main reason why old shows are rarely checked out by young fans. I think it has something to do with the preconception that everything that has been done in the past, has been done better in modern times and became obsolete. AshitaNoJonas said: What do you think? I think it's a lot simpler than that. If you're someone who wants to socialize over anime, what series are people currently talking about? The new ones. Not the old ones. Sure, you can praise Cowboy Bebop or FMAB or Evangelion to high heaven, but the most hardcore watchers are talking about the current-season stuff, while some more casual watchers are into whatever their friends are talking about, which is generally stuff that's currently airing in some capacity or other, or has been released within the past few years. And it's not just socializing -- if you're looking for stuff to watch, and you just ask someone, are you more likely to get a newer or older series mentioned to you? A newer one. And on top of this... Beyond a select few "classics" that longtime fans keep mentioning, it's actually a bunch of longtime fans who are often interested in something new/novel/"innovative"/etc. to get their enjoyment going, and a lot of "old" stuff just gets dismissed as being "mediocre" alternatives to other older series. For example, someone might say "Why watch Lost Universe when you can watch Slayers instead?". On the other hand, those newer fans are arguably more receptive to shows that longtime fans consider "mediocre", because newer fans aren't stuck in tropey ways of thinking while longtime fans are more likely to go "oh it's another show with [trope], meh". So, it's easier to get a newer fan to watch something old, if not for the fact the people they hang out with are generally talking about newer stuff. |
| Avatar character is Gabriel from Gabriel DropOut. |
| @GlennMagusHarvey Have you read the shitfest that thread is? Because the social argument was brought way less often than "technology objectively made old anime art obsolete and I have no argument but EVERYBODY knows this so it's obvious and not up to debate LOL you have Haibane Renmei in favs you elitist scum" And even if their stance on anime art's quality relative to age had any substance and arguments to back it up... So what? Better watch any shiny turd than a not-so-pretty looking masterpiece of a story? ^___- There's also nobody saying "modern shows are worse I don't watch them"... the opposite isn't true. As a last note, people who watch anime only mention classic to casuals because they never heard of Iria or Area 88 or 11 Nin iru ^^ |
DeathkoFeb 9, 2019 6:04 PM
Prophetess of the Golden Era |
AshitaNoJonas said: No, you're just used to a certain art style. If you really cared about quality, you would at the very least watch old OVAs and movies. Not at all. This season's Dororo is a great example of that. Mythologically said: At this point, Psajdak can literally bait people without making a thread. What an absolute mad lad, and what a time to live in. Is it possible to learn this power? @Psajdak |
| So long as it doesn't look like Alexander Senki/Glasslip/Pupa, I won't drop it due to visual reasons. There are mostly stylistic differences. I can understand people liking modern anime more, because they started getting into anime watching it and thus are used to it, because people actually discuss it's titles, whereas old ones are left forgotten for the most part so sharing your experience with others is more difficult... I just hate when people spout bullshit like older animation was much much worse or that old anime look like shit, because you're freaking wrong. You always see the same old anime mentionned because people only bother remembering the great ones. Same will happen to your beloved seasonals, how many of them will actually stand the test of time? I dare say that most can't even remember what aired 5 years ago. Those old anime also shaped most tropes of the medium, some that are still used to this day. Anyway, I'm ranting. I just find it stupid to flat out refuse watching or reading something because it's from another time(some go as far as refusing watching anything older than 2010, like, how sound is that). You're effectively shooting yourself in the foot by hugely limiting your options for nonsensical arbitrary reasons. |
  |
| Oh dear, I give up... I only need someone to tell me that this:  is better than this:  Or that this:  looks more impressive than this:  |
| @Psajdak YAY! You picked two examples I agree with! I was starting to feel like a contrarian :'3 Note that I'm just talking about the actual drawings, because I could do without the ugly filters on the modern ones. The last one just needs a lens flare added to figure into a "How not to use Photoshop" video. |
Prophetess of the Golden Era |
| I personally believe that it's whatever a person is used to. Obviously someone who watches newer anime is subconsciously adjusted to appealing art styles, smooth animation, and other factors that keep them from considering older anime. It was the same way for me at one point. |
_Seki_ said: I personally believe that it's whatever a person is used to. Obviously someone who watches newer anime is subconsciously adjusted to appealing art styles, smooth animation, and other factors that keep them from considering older anime. It was the same way for me at one point. *starts foaming at the mouth* Smoother animation than GitS for sure. Bed time! |
Prophetess of the Golden Era |
AshitaNoJonas said: For most fans of old anime it's hard to comprehend why so many people refuse to watch old anime. Sure, it has probably something do to with the fact that old anime looks different from what they're used too. Different colors, different character design and overall art style. And depending on what kind of anime it, the animation itself might be pretty rough (this seems to be the biggest criticism from modern fans, but should be a non-issue for most OVAs and movies). But I don't think that is really the main reason why old shows are rarely checked out by young fans. I think it has something to do with the preconception that everything that has been done in the past, has been done better in modern times and became obsolete. Therefore to them, everything new is automatically better than everything old. Why watch Yu Yu Hakusho, when you could watch Black Clover instead? Why watch Macross when you can watch Code Geass instead? And so on and so forth. However what people fail to realize is, that anime always had trends and phases. So anime from the past isn't just an inferior version of what we have now, it's something completely different mostly. So by not watching old anime, you're actually skipping over all sorts of different type of shows that would never be made today (for better or for worse). Also, there are so many unique anime, that you can't just make a better version of it (like Eva). (I noticed something similar when I was talking to a friend about video games: I would tell him about this game called Shenmue from the early 2000s and he would always interrupt me and tell me I should just buy a PS4 instead, even though there really isn't a game like that on PS4, except Shenmue itself on PS4 [I'm playing on PC for clarification]). What do you think? Nah, this isn't what newer anime fans think at all. I guess some may think that but if they do they are dumb. I watch newer anime mostly because it's what is talked about and by watching those anime you can have conversations with people and interact with them. I love the old anime style, but I rarely watch old anime because I know most people won't have seen it or heard of what it is. Except for popular ones like Evangelion, Ranma 1/2, Yu Yu Hakusho and the Dragon Ball series etc. I really don't think what you have said applies to many. |
| you're cool |
*starts foaming at the mouth* Smoother animation than GitS for sure. Bed time! Now that's something I haven't watched haha |
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