| Lol, can't wait for that to happen soon. |
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| Yeah, i know the dark age of battle shounens being considered to be classic is upon us. |
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| How about Ghibli stuff, though. Just as with Disney princesses constantly being re-released or revamped, Ghibli stuff will also. It's just too much of a profitable family friendly thing to disappear. |
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| I don't think so but if it will I will still be following the Japanese culture and what they do next. |
| Gnyo ho! |
TheServant said: keragamming said: That is just common sense, animation overall is what attracts young teens, it appleals to them, so there will always be more teens than adults, by time most anime fans reach the age of 30, they either lose interest or simple dont have the time anymore. And dont get me wrong it has nothing to do with anime being for kids only or anthing like that, just telling you that it will attract kids and teens because of how colourful it is. So it's not based on any statistic, but it's your own prediction. Next time, please use "statistically" correctly. And I do not think you understand what common sense means. I am sure you will understand it eventually as you learn more. I think we should end our chat here. Thank you for your time. @Imaishi There was a thread back in like 2015 that use a good amount of users data, and found the average age of users here, and when I saw it I remember saying that is not surprising, that is why I said it is a common sense thing, so I did not just pull it out of my ass. I will admit I fucked up there, this was idea that pop up in my mind, and I wrote it without really, putting that much effort and making sure my point make sense. Though we may never know because users may not have put there correct age. I was also born in the 90s, that's not what I meant, our generstion grew up with those series on cable, and had to watch what was on tv, and I did point out that there will always be a bunch that watches the old stuff. The point I'm making is time, the more time passes the more irrelevant those series become. Clebardman said: Imaishi pretty much summed up everything that should be said. This has very little to do with "nostalgia" (that dumb argument will never die) considering 95% of the oldies I saw, I saw them for the first time in the last 2 years. But if you wanna be that grumpy close-minded dude who yells "anime were better in my youth, we had AoT!" while dismissing everything new, good for you. Just don't pretend that's how fans of the 80s/90s are. (and the chances of NGE being forgotten? They're at zero. AoT will be forgotten before Anno starts writing the 4th rebuild and you know it.) Nge is no dbz or pokemon! It is already ancient history. |
keragammingOct 2, 2018 5:22 AM
| Yet, there are people who still theorized about the series in recent times, and has been also introduced to the younger audience who watched Naruto/DBZ first, like yours truly. |
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RapidShadow said: I don't mean to generalize, this was also not part of the original argument with the debate about anime losing it's artistic merits and you have not directly responded to that. Because we clearly aren't see eye-to-eye on the term artistic merit. RapidShadow said: I do not think you know the meaning of the word artistically impressive please look it up. I do not think you know how broad and vague the word artistically impressive is. Please look it up. I could just as easily bring up say Doukyuusei 2016 for its simplistic and beautiful almost paintbrush quality character designs, the liveliness of its animation, the elegantly minimalist backdrop, and its sparing but great use of paneling. The same can be said for movies like In This Corner of the World and Liz and the Blue Bird. I would consider A Silent Voice a work with artistic merit. Heck, I'd consider some KyoAni series to have artistic merits, and I know there's no love lost between you and KyoAni. And I'm free to have that view and you're free to reject. But that's just it, we'd just be at an impasse. After all, here's what the Internet has to say: "Artistic merit is the perceived artistic quality or value of any given work of art, music, film, literature, sculpture or painting." I could write a long ass essay in support of the movies I named. I could bring up UnderTheScope's videos in defense of my views of the KyoAni series. Of course, you could just as easily dismiss my examples as too few. I could do the same because I'm sure as I could ever be that the majority of the pre-00s anime hold no merit. You can reiterate the examples you've mentioned but they're hardly the totality of all anime that ever aired pre-00s. I've already been over this. Basically this: Eanki said: RapidShadow said: Anime has mostly lost it's artistic merit's other than a few people That has always been the case And we're going to just keep cyclically arguing over this until and unless you realize my point which I've stated in my first post: you're overgeneralizing the past works, acting like they were all positively brimming with artistic merits and little to no stinkers. The majority of anime in every era will have little to no artistic merit. There, clear? Oh, and to be clear, the Ghost in the Shell part was in reply to the OP, not you. Because you keep talking about it and it's unbearable. You say you don't want to generalize and you're the one who keeps on overgeneralizing. Your overgeneralizations and piteous noises about intelligence are the root of this conversation and you keep repeating that and I suspect you're going to keep repeating that. RapidShadow said: people care about something like Lotgh still because it is complex with mature themes therefore people, smarter people will want to watch this instead of anime with simple themes. RapidShadow said: Intelligence is a factor in understanding complex works such as these, a person with 80 IQ has no chance of understanding it(I get that this is a weird argument to make) Understanding what? Basically high school level social science? Kid, in the uni, I took a 3 units minor in Soc Sci (2 or 3, I think) where we discuss top of my head the progression of political thought and several concepts from the Greek philosophers, the social contract with Locke, Hobbes, & Rousseau, the economic theories (e.g. Theory of Rent, Labor Theory, and Law of Comparative Advantage) and works of Adam Smith, Ricardo, Marx, etc., the progression on the concept of what "liberty" is from guys like Mill, to sociology with Durkheim, etc. I'm fairly certain no anime had captured that much complexity yet. And remember, that was a 1-sem minor, so my colleagues who majored in Pol Sci went deeper than that. You're going to tell me about "fairly complex works that a person with 80 IQ can't grasp" and then point to what amounts to high school level politics and social science? RapidShadow said: That's why I said smart people in the original argument, there are people who constantly seek out new anime that make them think or tackle mature and yes that is a taste, even looking at the favorites of some of the people here it can be clearly seen the type of anime they watch is intelligent or tackles mature themes in some way. And what are you going to do when I tell you that there are works that tackles mature themes all around you but you can't see them or you refuse to see them because they're not typecasted as mature? Romance stories for example like Tsuki Ga Kirei, Wotakoi, and Danna Ga Nani I've been told to have some mature outlook. What are you going to do if I tell you about what I consider a significant theme in a show like Toradora!: that about the necessity of selfishness in moderation and asserting your own wants, and where the balance of those things lie. Or how about a show that tackles why physical attraction is not shallow and the culture of slut-shaming? RapidShadow said: (Apologize for the mistakes in the previous post) If you mean the grammar, no problem. I'm quadlingual, hexalingual if we count computer languages. I know the difficulties inherent in learning languages so I don't go around putting down people for grammar mistakes. I probably make a lot too even though English is one of my three native tongues. |
 You gave up your freedom of speech when you clicked Agree to the User Agreement This is not a public platform. My gaze is the measure of all things: I stopped considering "anime" a helpful tag Recommended Essays Exploring Actually Excellent World-Building |
| "NGE is already ancient history" And then you wonder why nobody believes your predictions, Keragamus. Can't even predict the present correctly (^% |
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-Lofn- said: Yet, there are people who still theorized about the series in recent times, and has been also introduced to the younger audience who watched Naruto/DBZ first, like yours truly. This. NGE is still being theorized by anime fans. You can still find in, for example, Twitter, people talking about how good or how bad the finale was. Ancient history? Da fuck? In this forum I see everyday people talking about or mentioning Eva. The same with Bebop and Ghost in the Shell. You won't forget about The Simpsons, about The Beatles or about The Godfather, won't you? Even if you haven't personally watched those, you know what they are. Also, comparing Eva or Bebop with DBZ or Pokémon, series that can be entered easier by the young people, is stupid nonetheless. What was good in the past will be forever, and those series are well known today and will be for a long time. People still talk about how Stairway to Heaven is one of the best songs EVER created. It came out in 1969. What is good and what is liked prevails. |
-Lofn- said: Yet, there are people who still theorized about the series in recent times, and has been also introduced to the younger audience who watched Naruto/DBZ first, like yours truly. Clebardman said: "NGE is already ancient history" And then you wonder why nobody believes your predictions, Keragamus. Can't even predict the present correctly (^% PentagramShogoki said: -Lofn- said: Yet, there are people who still theorized about the series in recent times, and has been also introduced to the younger audience who watched Naruto/DBZ first, like yours truly. This. NGE is still being theorized by anime fans. You can still find in, for example, Twitter, people talking about how good or how bad the finale was. Ancient history? Da fuck? In this forum I see everyday people talking about or mentioning Eva. The same with Bebop and Ghost in the Shell. You won't forget about The Simpsons, about The Beatles or about The Godfather, won't you? Even if you haven't personally watched those, you know what they are. Also, comparing Eva or Bebop with DBZ or Pokémon, series that can be entered easier by the young people, is stupid nonetheless. What was good in the past will be forever, and those series are well known today and will be for a long time. People still talk about how Stairway to Heaven is one of the best songs EVER created. It came out in 1969. What is good and what is liked prevails. No where did I say that absolutely no one will be talking about those old time series, nor did I say anything about the series quality. I'm sure at this moment there are still a minuscule cult following for those series, but the more time passes the more irrelevant they become. Ok, let me use this analogy, It's just like your family tree, you may know up to your great father, but anything past that for most person and it's all blank, the only way you can know of your great, great grandfather is by second hand information, probably from your grandfather since you were not there to know him, so by time it reaches your grandson, he probably wont even know of his existence, because you may not mention him, because truthfully you did not know him personally, and it would make more sense to mention your grandson about your father and grandfather than your great, great grandfather that you never met to begin with, and eventually you yourself will be forgotten. It's the same concept, nge is still getting recommended to people from other fans, second hand information, but as time passes eventually, the only way the newer fans will be aware of their existence is if they are interested in looking for older anime, since most websites wont be recommending those old series. The only other possibility of them being aware of those series, is if those old series are rank highly, like if cowboy bebop maintain that score, then newer anime fans will see it in the top ranking and may get into it that way if they are ok with outdated art style, NGE though generally isn't ranked that highly that it will not be on the front page, so that wont have that luck like cowboy bebop. I'm not taking a jab at the older series, this is simple the truth which all series will eventually experience. |
keragammingOct 2, 2018 8:21 AM
Catalano said: Stuff like evangelion won't become obsolete. Just look at Sgt Pepper, it's got 50 years and it's still the best album ever created. Whoa there, Sgt Pepper is definitely not the best album ever created, in fact, it's not even the best Beatles album. I'm one of the biggest Beatles fans here, and I'd rank Sgt Pepper as one of their worst LPs. Beatles for Sale, With the Beatles, and Hard Days Night are far better. |
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| @keragamming then that is way worse for situations in the likes of seasonals, this seasonals are waywards in popularity. Heck, Re;Zero is just alive today because of "best girl" Rem. Like I said in my initial post on the first page, people needs to explore the medium, and there will be people who will always do so. It's already happening today, it doesn't need to be on 2030. People are second handing information about NGE and Bebop to the newer generations and I don't see any problems regarding that. It's the same for every medium, the only way you might know a certain film, is through readable articles about certain genre of films, even TODAY, it's the same for seasonals, there are some that is under the radar for the mass, that you will randomly stumble upon and ask for dat sauce. It's not restricted to past anime. Edit: Phone limit |
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| eh, I'm pretty sure everything from like the 70s and 80s that has not been forgotten yet, won't be forgotten anytime soon. Either people don't care about age, or they already avoid anything from the 80s or earlier, often even the 90s and pat of the 00s as well. We already reached the stage where only a minimal number of people still cares about those classics, but those people will always exist. I've never met anyone who watched these shows when they came out, everyone I ever talked to about them has watched them recently, as an adult, so the whole theory of them only being talked about because people remember them from their childhood is bs. They already have cult status, so only people with an interest in old anime or a holistic interest in the medium will watch them. But that group is here now and it will be here 10 or 20 years from now. There's no reason to assume that there will be a smaller percentage of people who care about classics and the history of the medium and certain directors in the future compared to now. |
| I probably regret this post by now. |
| We barely have anyone watch old anime today, leave alone 2030. Yeah, they will most likely be forgotten though some might survive like Eva and DB. FMA: Brotherhood, Code Geass, KnNW, BnHA, Naruto, Death Note, AoT etc will be the one that become classic by that time. |
Papa_ScorchOct 2, 2018 8:57 AM
@-Lofn- @Pullman Perhaps I'm wrong and by 2030 those series will maintain their cult following, but in the long run, eventually it wont. Ok, let me use this analogy, It's just like your family tree, you may know up to your great father, but anything past that for most person and it's all blank, the only way you can know of your great, great grandfather is by second hand information, probably from your grandfather since you were not there to know him, so by time it reaches your grandson, he probably wont even know of his existence, because you may not mention him, because truthfully you did not know him personally, and it would make more sense to mention your grandson about your father and grandfather than your great, great grandfather that you never met to begin with, and eventually you yourself will be forgotten, simple because of time. My point is, they will eventually get replace, and the snk, fmab, hxh , death note etc will be the new classics and then eventually they will get replace as well. |
keragammingOct 2, 2018 9:26 AM
Catalano said: @Seiya take it easy man and listen to some Lucy in the Sky or A Day in the Life. Their worst is Magical Mystery Tour, the rest are about the same 10/10 quality, Sgt Pepper is just a little above them. I've listened to Lucy in the Sky and A Day in the Life more than my share of times, and they are nothing special. I prefer The Beatles earlier works, before all that crazy psychedelic hippie shit came out. |
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keragamming said: @-Lofn- @Pullman Perhaps I'm wrong and by 2030 those series will maintain their cult following, but in the long run, eventually it wont. Ok, let me use this analogy, It's just like your family tree, you may know up to your great father, but anything past that for most person and it's all blank, the only way you can know of your great, great grandfather is by second hand information, probably from your grandfather since you were not there to know him, so by time it reaches your grandson, he probably wont even know of his existence, because you may not mention him, because truthfully you did not know him personally, and it would make more sense to mention your grandson about your father and grandfather than your great, great grandfather that you never met to begin with, and eventually you yourself will be forgotten, simple because of time. My point is, they will eventually get replace, and the snk, fmab, hxh , death note etc will be the new classics and then eventually they will get replace as well. idk, looking at other mediums that's just not how it tends to work. The film classics from the 20s or 30s still get mentioned in alltime toplists and no film buff will not be aware of them. Of course, in the distant future anything can be forgotten, but once a piece of media reaches a certain status, that status alone will make sure it keeps getting mentioned in the future. Or take books. People still read the Bible and it's fucking old and outdated as fuck. |
| I probably regret this post by now. |
| You're kinda underestimating the staying power brought on by either nostalgia or just the desire to consume something old. All entertainment mediums have their fair share of these kind of people and there's no reason to believe they'll just be gone by 2030. |
| the anime that are considered classics will still be watch by many just like how the classic movies of hollywood are still watch today but for the majority of old anime then ye high chance they will become obsolete and forgotten by many but not totally forgotten by some like historians |
keragamming said: Have you ever watch Astro boy that came out in 1960? Did you know it had a big influence on anime? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pnX-0fbXzyA How many people has ever even watched it or know of its impact in the anime medium? Your example just undermines your argument. Astroboy, and Tezuka for that matter, are both still relevant as hell. A movie came out in 2009. Pluto is getting an adaptation soon. The best mangaka still alive were greatly influenced by him and other old mangakas. There's an award named after him. Just because most people don't know it it doesn't mean it isn't relevant -- remember, we live in the west. Most people don't even know most anime and think everything is naruto or dragonball. Also, don't start your arguments with assumptions that people know less than you do. It sounds smug and arrogant. Astro Boy is not even that obscure for you to think like that. keragamming said: It not only out of fashion, it's almost non existent Then you're even more wrong than I expected. keragamming said: and I disagree it is the same for video game and most medium, the only one I can think of that can stay relevant is music. I know it hurts and it is not something most people would want to agree with, but it is the truth And again you are just plain wrong: -Movies from over 50 years ago are still widely referenced and remembered as masterpieces. Casablanca is still a constant in most directors and a lot of other people top10 movies, as well as constantly brought up in media. -Comic books and videogames are young mediums, but even the oldies aren't "inexistent" nor forgotten yet: comic strips from the 20s like Little Nemo still have great cult followings, and just recently there was a great shitstorm over forged videogame records set in the 80s, which got a lot of people talking about it even though these games aren't even played anymore nowadays. -Most of the culturally ingrained paintings are not from this nor the last century, and I don't think I even need to make the case for literature, as writings from over 2000 years ago are still relevant to this day. This isn't the "truth". You have literally nothing to support yourself with but assumptions, as others demonstrated. You can't just say something is "common sense" when clearly nobody agrees with you. |
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| Don't worry, the anime of today will get shitted on later down the line for looking "old". That's what I call sweet karma. ;) |
Please learn about cel animation and its technical process. Learn how special effects and backlighting were done without computers. |
keragamming said: -Lofn- said: Yet, there are people who still theorized about the series in recent times, and has been also introduced to the younger audience who watched Naruto/DBZ first, like yours truly. Clebardman said: "NGE is already ancient history" And then you wonder why nobody believes your predictions, Keragamus. Can't even predict the present correctly (^% PentagramShogoki said: This. NGE is still being theorized by anime fans. You can still find in, for example, Twitter, people talking about how good or how bad the finale was. Ancient history? Da fuck? In this forum I see everyday people talking about or mentioning Eva. The same with Bebop and Ghost in the Shell. You won't forget about The Simpsons, about The Beatles or about The Godfather, won't you? Even if you haven't personally watched those, you know what they are. Also, comparing Eva or Bebop with DBZ or Pokémon, series that can be entered easier by the young people, is stupid nonetheless. What was good in the past will be forever, and those series are well known today and will be for a long time. People still talk about how Stairway to Heaven is one of the best songs EVER created. It came out in 1969. What is good and what is liked prevails. No where did I say that absolutely no one will be talking about those old time series, nor did I say anything about the series quality. I'm sure at this moment there are still a minuscule cult following for those series, but the more time passes the more irrelevant they become. Ok, let me use this analogy, It's just like your family tree, you may know up to your great father, but anything past that for most person and it's all blank, the only way you can know of your great, great grandfather is by second hand information, probably from your grandfather since you were not there to know him, so by time it reaches your grandson, he probably wont even know of his existence, because you may not mention him, because truthfully you did not know him personally, and it would make more sense to mention your grandson about your father and grandfather than your great, great grandfather that you never met to begin with, and eventually you yourself will be forgotten. It's the same concept, nge is still getting recommended to people from other fans, second hand information, but as time passes eventually, the only way the newer fans will be aware of their existence is if they are interested in looking for older anime, since most websites wont be recommending those old series. The only other possibility of them being aware of those series, is if those old series are rank highly, like if cowboy bebop maintain that score, then newer anime fans will see it in the top ranking and may get into it that way if they are ok with outdated art style, NGE though generally isn't ranked that highly that it will not be on the front page, so that wont have that luck like cowboy bebop. I'm not taking a jab at the older series, this is simple the truth which all series will eventually experience. You are taking it to a point where in 2050 no one will know FMA:B, Death Note, Naruto, because those will be considered 'classics' or old anime so they will be forgotten. Eva and Bebop are in top #50 of popularity, both of them. Even if they are 20yo, people recognise those names as 'legendary animes', so they want to know what is all about. Yes, passing of time makes people forget about old things and know new ones, but what is good known as 'legendary' remains. As for Bebop is different because it ended long ago, but Eva now has the Rebuilds, which are taking high expectations since 2006. For example, think about games: even if you haven't played Half-Life never in your life, you are supposed to know (if you know something about gaming) that Half-Life is an iconic shooter and media reference. Even today, people are waiting for its third release and talking how Valve changed the way we saw the shooters. Yes, later came Call of Duty / Battlefield / Medal of Honor, but Half-Life will always be remembered for how ICONIC is it. |
Pullman said: keragamming said: @-Lofn- @Pullman Perhaps I'm wrong and by 2030 those series will maintain their cult following, but in the long run, eventually it wont. Ok, let me use this analogy, It's just like your family tree, you may know up to your great father, but anything past that for most person and it's all blank, the only way you can know of your great, great grandfather is by second hand information, probably from your grandfather since you were not there to know him, so by time it reaches your grandson, he probably wont even know of his existence, because you may not mention him, because truthfully you did not know him personally, and it would make more sense to mention your grandson about your father and grandfather than your great, great grandfather that you never met to begin with, and eventually you yourself will be forgotten, simple because of time. My point is, they will eventually get replace, and the snk, fmab, hxh , death note etc will be the new classics and then eventually they will get replace as well. idk, looking at other mediums that's just not how it tends to work. The film classics from the 20s or 30s still get mentioned in alltime toplists and no film buff will not be aware of them. Of course, in the distant future anything can be forgotten, but once a piece of media reaches a certain status, that status alone will make sure it keeps getting mentioned in the future. Or take books. People still read the Bible and it's fucking old and outdated as fuck. I did not go as far as saying they will never get mention, because I'm sure there will be people that will decide to make a best anime from this decade list or something of that nature. The only reason the bible is still relevant, because religion overall continues from generation to generation, it's always in your face, and even that is slowly dwindling from what I have heard and read with this generation, but that is another story. The reason why Hitler, slavery etc is still known by many and will continue to be in the minds of many is simple because these things are taught to us in History class, or that there is a yearly time of the year that touch on these topics. Point is, if we were to stop getting history classes, and basically drop all these things that happen in the past, eventually all those things will be forgotten as well. It's the same for anime as well, imagine 50 years from now, or 100? Don't try to convince me that people would still be talking about Evangellion, attack on titan or anything that is currently going on now. @meatbun_ Answer me this question, after a century has past, do you really believe those people will be going back almost tow century to mention those classics? Do you even know of any classic movies in the 18 century? |
keragammingOct 2, 2018 11:04 AM
| I'm pretty sure most anime fans know what Astro Boy is. Even if they don't take the time to watch it they still know it's legacy and how it influenced other anime. |
| I'll definitely forget about you and this thread by the next 30 minutes ;-) |
keragamming said: Dude just stop, you're only making fun of yourself at this point. Why assuming people wants to be uninformed and ignorant? It's the same for anime as well, imagine 50 years from now, or 100? Don't try to convince me that people would still be talking about Evangellion, attack on titan or anything that is currently going on now. @meatbun_ Answer me this question, after a century has past, do you really believe those people will be going back almost tow century to mention those classics? Do you even know of any classic movies in the 18 century? Also there were no movies in the 18th century. |
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meatbun_ said: Looking at any other medium, from literature to movies and comic books, there's absolutely no reason to believe such a thing. Of course newer stuff will always be more popular and not everything will always be around (only those with relevant enough cultural impact), this already happens today, but there's no reason the old stuff will completely go out of fashion. though it's important to note that only a handful of them will be remembered. I can't name more than 10-15 movies from before 2000s, being a "film casual", but yea your point definitely makes sense. |
LegsDaddy said: I'm pretty sure most anime fans know what Astro Boy is. Even if they don't take the time to watch it they still know it's legacy and how it influenced other anime. Really? I only found out a few years ago. Heck I did not even know astro boy was an anime, always thought it was a american cartoon. Only the hardcore anime fans know that. Lord_Of_Denial said: I'll definitely forget about you and this thread by the next 30 minutes ;-) In the end we are all going to be forgotten eventually. ;) @PentagramShogok Half life came out in 1998 and half life 2 came out in 2004, Persons that played the game in that time, is still looking forward to playing it, I don't see anything special about that, most of the persons that played it are the same persons that played it back in 1998 and 2004 that were teenagers that are now adults. I see half life as more like a meme than anything else. @Unowen Search, google is your friend in the late 18 century. It has nothing about being uninformed or ignorant, most people are not interested in what happen 100 years ago regarding entertainment. The only time people are interested is when it comes to race, and what happen to their race in the past, but when it comes to things like entertainment, most are not interested in what happen 50 to 100 years ago. |
keragammingOct 2, 2018 11:27 AM
| First movie ever according to google: either 1878 or 1888. Of course those were just recordings though. 18th century: 1701-1800 LOL TRY AGAIN |
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keragamming said: Pullman said: idk, looking at other mediums that's just not how it tends to work. The film classics from the 20s or 30s still get mentioned in alltime toplists and no film buff will not be aware of them. Of course, in the distant future anything can be forgotten, but once a piece of media reaches a certain status, that status alone will make sure it keeps getting mentioned in the future. Or take books. People still read the Bible and it's fucking old and outdated as fuck. I did not go as far as saying they will never get mention, because I'm sure there will be people that will decide to make a best anime from this decade list or something of that nature. The only reason the bible is still relevant, because religion overall continues from generation to generation, it's always in your face, and even that is slowly dwindling from what I have heard and read with this generation, but that is another story. The reason why Hitler, slavery etc is still known by many and will continue to be in the minds of many is simple because these things are taught to us in History class, or that there is a yearly time of the year that touch on these topics. Point is, if we were to stop getting history classes, and basically drop all these things that happen in the past, eventually all those things will be forgotten as well. It's the same for anime as well, imagine 50 years from now, or 100? Don't try to convince me that people would still be talking about Evangellion, attack on titan or anything that is currently going on now. @meatbun_ Answer me this question, after a century has past, do you really believe those people will be going back almost tow century to mention those classics? Do you even know of any classic movies in the 18 century? As long as the medium exists, people will be interested in its history and for that reason a lot significant works won't be forgotten. Of course you can construct obscure scenarios where all knowledge of history gets lost to humanity but what's the fucking point? We're not writing dystopian fiction here, we're trying to talk about the mechanics of how classics get remembered and I'm telling you it has nothing to do with age and all to do with historical significance, quality and reputation. And yes, it's only a relatively small group who has these interests, but so what? They're still more than enough people to not count as something being 'forgotten'. And my whole point was that your 2030 timeline is completely random. I don't see any difference between the status of 70s and 80s anime now and 10 years from now. They're already limited to the small group of enthusiasts who like old anime or are interested in the history of the medium and literally nothing about that will change. I don't see why there should be a smaller percentage of people interested in the history and old masterpieces in the future. It's a niche interest, yes, but it's a consistent one, no matter the medium. History doesn't stop being interesting just because it grows older. That's now how it works when you're interested in history. |
| I probably regret this post by now. |
Unowen said: First movie ever according to google: either 1878 or 1888. Of course those were just recordings though. 18th century: 1701-1800 LOL TRY AGAIN Ok, I admit I fucked up there, but if there were any in that time, no one would care or think that it is relevant now. Basically I'm talking about time, the more time passes the less people will give a shit about it. |
| @Eanki there's a reason why I mention Ova's and movies not tv anime. Go and check the seasonal charts of the 80's and you'll see several experimental Ova's and in comparison to today the production of experimental anime has reduced a lot. I probably should have mentioned "complex mature themes that are executed well" instead of simply mature themes anyway I consider works like Mononoke and anything Masaki Yuasa makes to be artistically impressive, in the 80's we had Ova's and movies like Angels egg, Urutsuki douji, Angel cop, Honneamise, Gunbuster, Patlabor etc.(I could go forever) every single one of them was unique and completely different from one another and even if there were several terrible Ova's I could at least credit them for being different. How many works can I name in recent years that has the same level of craftmanship as these shows do? Maybe only a handful heck even tv anime back then had to have some gimmick to separate them from other shows otherwise they'd go unnoticed like Metal Armor Dragonar which has some decent things in it but goes unnoticed because it really didn't bring much to the table. In comparison to shows like Aldonoah Zero which is the Dragonar of modern anime it gets extremely popular even though it doesn't deserve it whereas in the 80's something like that would not have an impact at all. Ok I agree the IQ argument is terribly constructed, let me take an example, a person is new to anime but has finished Evangelion and can understand the depth it has so he looks for new shows of the same nature, he finds that newer anime do not provide that as much therefore he looks towards older shows like Gundam, Utena, Lain etc. If people keep talking about Evangelion and shows to the level of depth as Evangelion are not being made anymore then Evangelion is still relevant, if a show that surpasses Evangelion is made like Kill la Kill and keeps getting made then Evangelion will lose it's relevance, however the amount of isekai anime getting announced(I don't judge anime before watching but after so many mediocre titles what can one expect?) or harem, ecchi shounen, edgy ass seinens today is a lot more than experimental shows which is something I think we can at least agree on. Evangelion will probably never lose it's relevance if this trend keeps continuing and growing larger, older movies like Citizen Kane, The Godfather(I have not seen them) are still relevant because well in the opinions of many people almost no work has surpassed them. Every age will have classics that will always be remembered and have it's own problems however every generation will always something unique to their generation and have their own problems. In the 80's most of the ovas that tried to be different were shit to be honest however now almost that is being made is different. |
| I have been watching anime since the 2010 and even now im still lookin back at some of the older titles from the 70's 80s and 90's and have a multiple of them i saw and remember fondly and still checking some news ones right now. Any classics will always be fondly remembered even if the fandoms for it shrink due to age. The titles that made the biggest impact such as Urusei Yatsure, Captain Harlock, Gundam, Astro Boy, Ranma 1 1/2, DragonBall, Legened of Galactic heroes. All Ghibli films will forever be relevant so your over exaggerating things a little. |
Pullman said: keragamming said: I did not go as far as saying they will never get mention, because I'm sure there will be people that will decide to make a best anime from this decade list or something of that nature. The only reason the bible is still relevant, because religion overall continues from generation to generation, it's always in your face, and even that is slowly dwindling from what I have heard and read with this generation, but that is another story. The reason why Hitler, slavery etc is still known by many and will continue to be in the minds of many is simple because these things are taught to us in History class, or that there is a yearly time of the year that touch on these topics. Point is, if we were to stop getting history classes, and basically drop all these things that happen in the past, eventually all those things will be forgotten as well. It's the same for anime as well, imagine 50 years from now, or 100? Don't try to convince me that people would still be talking about Evangellion, attack on titan or anything that is currently going on now. @meatbun_ Answer me this question, after a century has past, do you really believe those people will be going back almost tow century to mention those classics? Do you even know of any classic movies in the 18 century? As long as the medium exists, people will be interested in its history and for that reason a lot significant works won't be forgotten. Of course you can construct obscure scenarios where all knowledge of history gets lost to humanity but what's the fucking point? We're not writing dystopian fiction here, we're trying to talk about the mechanics of how classics get remembered and I'm telling you it has nothing to do with age and all to do with historical significance, quality and reputation. And yes, it's only a relatively small group who has these interests, but so what? They're still more than enough people to not count as something being 'forgotten'. And my whole point was that your 2030 timeline is completely random. I don't see any difference between the status of 70s and 80s anime now and 10 years from now. They're already limited to the small group of enthusiasts who like old anime or are interested in the history of the medium and literally nothing about that will change. I don't see why there should be a smaller percentage of people interested in the history and old masterpieces in the future. It's a niche interest, yes, but it's a consistent one, no matter the medium. History doesn't stop being interesting just because it grows older. That's now how it works when you're interested in history. I think you are misunderstanding me, let me get this straight once and for all, people will always remember old anime, I was never denying that, but here is the part where I strongly disagree with you on. Their old anime will be different from what your old anime was, The cycle will continue but instead these current old anime will be replace. Even now, people are already calling code geass and death note old anime, those anime will be there old classics. That is the cycle. @-ShadowClaw- If a fandom is shrinking as you say, what is preventing it from completely vanishing? @Zehennagel We are not even considering the advancement of technology, maybe in the future, anime will be fully 3d and projected, It may be the same thing as how most people wont watch black and white shows. |
keragammingOct 2, 2018 11:51 AM
| ] keragamming said: Pullman said: As long as the medium exists, people will be interested in its history and for that reason a lot significant works won't be forgotten. Of course you can construct obscure scenarios where all knowledge of history gets lost to humanity but what's the fucking point? We're not writing dystopian fiction here, we're trying to talk about the mechanics of how classics get remembered and I'm telling you it has nothing to do with age and all to do with historical significance, quality and reputation. And yes, it's only a relatively small group who has these interests, but so what? They're still more than enough people to not count as something being 'forgotten'. And my whole point was that your 2030 timeline is completely random. I don't see any difference between the status of 70s and 80s anime now and 10 years from now. They're already limited to the small group of enthusiasts who like old anime or are interested in the history of the medium and literally nothing about that will change. I don't see why there should be a smaller percentage of people interested in the history and old masterpieces in the future. It's a niche interest, yes, but it's a consistent one, no matter the medium. History doesn't stop being interesting just because it grows older. That's now how it works when you're interested in history. I think you are misunderstanding me, let me get this straight once and for all, people will always remember old anime, I was never denying that, but here is the part where I strongly disagree with you on. Their old anime will be different from what your old anime was, The cycle will continue but instead these current old anime will be replace. Even now, people are already calling code geass and death note old anime, those anime will be there old classics. That is the cycle. @-ShadowClaw- If a fandom is shrinking as you say, what is preventing it from completely vanishing? What i mean is that the amount of new people that will come and watch it, won't be the same as much as they were in the first few years they aired but they will keep coming to see them. |
-ShadowClaw- said: ] keragamming said: I think you are misunderstanding me, let me get this straight once and for all, people will always remember old anime, I was never denying that, but here is the part where I strongly disagree with you on. Their old anime will be different from what your old anime was, The cycle will continue but instead these current old anime will be replace. Even now, people are already calling code geass and death note old anime, those anime will be there old classics. That is the cycle. @-ShadowClaw- If a fandom is shrinking as you say, what is preventing it from completely vanishing? What i mean is that the amount of new people that will come and watch it, won't be the same as much as they were in the first few years they aired but they will keep coming to see them. We are not even considering the advancement of technology, maybe in the future, anime will be fully 3d and projected, It may be the same thing as how most people wont watch black and white shows. I'm just imagining 50 to 100 years from now people are watching cow boy bebop, it just seem so surreal to me, Hopefully I will be alive in the next 50 years to see how it turns out I guess. |
| time certainly moves on but some things never disappear and things are constantly getting rebooted i believe 1000% that pokemon will exist in some form 10 years from now, heck 30 years from now. People may not go back and rewatch the original show, but it wont be forgotten |
| https://combosmooth.itch.io/ - I make free-to-play browser games for PC and I sell pixel art animation here |
keragamming said: well, while writting that I was thinking about movies like shining, 2001 the odyssey and such things. there will be a handful, maybe a handful 5, then another handful of 10,15 less known but still classic like pulp fiction, psychose all that kinda things. what will difinitely survive are the handful of 5 I think.@Zehennagel We are not even considering the advancement of technology, maybe in the future, anime will be fully 3d and projected, It may be the same thing as how most people wont watch black and white shows. |
keragamming said: Pullman said: As long as the medium exists, people will be interested in its history and for that reason a lot significant works won't be forgotten. Of course you can construct obscure scenarios where all knowledge of history gets lost to humanity but what's the fucking point? We're not writing dystopian fiction here, we're trying to talk about the mechanics of how classics get remembered and I'm telling you it has nothing to do with age and all to do with historical significance, quality and reputation. And yes, it's only a relatively small group who has these interests, but so what? They're still more than enough people to not count as something being 'forgotten'. And my whole point was that your 2030 timeline is completely random. I don't see any difference between the status of 70s and 80s anime now and 10 years from now. They're already limited to the small group of enthusiasts who like old anime or are interested in the history of the medium and literally nothing about that will change. I don't see why there should be a smaller percentage of people interested in the history and old masterpieces in the future. It's a niche interest, yes, but it's a consistent one, no matter the medium. History doesn't stop being interesting just because it grows older. That's now how it works when you're interested in history. I think you are misunderstanding me, let me get this straight once and for all, people will always remember old anime, I was never denying that, but here is the part where I strongly disagree with you on. Their old anime will be different from what your old anime was, The cycle will continue but instead these current old anime will be replace. Even now, people are already calling code geass and death note old anime, those anime will be there old classics. That is the cycle. @-ShadowClaw- If a fandom is shrinking as you say, what is preventing it from completely vanishing? @Zehennagel We are not even considering the advancement of technology, maybe in the future, anime will be fully 3d and projected, It may be the same thing as how most people wont watch black and white shows. I just don't see any evidence for such a cycle existing in any other medium or area of human knowledge or culture so I'm not buying it. History doesn't replace itself, it just adds to itself. People still read Aristotle and Plato in the middle ages and they still do now. They read Dante and Shakespeare 100 years ago and they still do. They remembered the big movies of the silent film era in the 80s and they still do. They saw Rose of Versailles and Ashita no Joe as classics in the 90s and they still do. Once something gains the status of being mostly known and watched for being historically significant (which I think is already the case for 70s and 80s classics at least), it doesn't easily lose that status. It's hard to gain in the first place and only a few handful of titles from these decades are still remembered by what I'd call a significant minority. If a show gets to that level it is mentioned in books and essays and all-time toplists from critics and historical analysis of the medium, and future generations who develop an interest in the historical titles will read those lists and books and essays to learn about the history and that cycle continues. Not your cycle of knowledge being forgotten and replaced. It's how human culture and history and knowledge keeps developing instead of just being limited to the past few decades or centuries until it gets replaced by newer knowledge and forgotten. |
| I probably regret this post by now. |
keragamming said: My favorite movie is from 1931. And that's just an isolated example, out of thousands of millions that enjoy entertainment in one way or another. If technology keeps advancing in the same way internet has for the past couple of decades, making information and entertainment flow much easier than before, it will be even easier to find people that likes old movies, music and anime in the future. A movie from 1931 has survived WW2 and many decades without internet. Anime from the 80s-90s has it way easier. @Unowen Search, google is your friend in the late 18 century. It has nothing about being uninformed or ignorant, most people are not interested in what happen 100 years ago regarding entertainment. The only time people are interested is when it comes to race, and what happen to their race in the past, but when it comes to things like entertainment, most are not interested in what happen 50 to 100 years ago. I recommend you just to stop generalizing. If this sight seems surreal to you, it's because you don't do it. For me though,that I have done it and I know plenty of people who also does, it's just natural if you're interested. |
|
| lol at people attacking the OP look at mecha shows for example they are the popular ones in the past but now a days even Gundam is less watch compared to other shows the OP just titled the thread in an hyperbole/exaggerated matter imo |
| So basically OP says that millennials are barbaric tribe with no regards to cultural heritage but the next generations will be even worst...kind of makes sense. |
| I wouldn't care if that were to happen, but, I really doubt that. |
 |
keragamming said: Answer me this question, after a century has past, do you really believe those people will be going back almost tow century to mention those classics? Yes I do, because this already happens nowadays, as I made clear in my comment, and as of now you haven't presented a single argument to make us think otherwise. You just speak of your own opinion like it hold some objective truth or whatever. keragamming said: Do you even know of any classic movies in the 18 century? Ha, yeah, you fucked up there, which again shows you don't really know what you are talking about. However, the most famed "first" movie (The Arrival of a Train at La Ciotat Station, 1895, 19th century) is still widely mentioned: it appeared as a central plot point in the movie "Hugo", from 2011, which mainly deals with the works of Georges Méliès, which produced a handful of movies starting at the 1896 (more than 100 years old!), specially Trip to the Moon, which is from 1902, and is still widely referenced everywhere. Thus, you are proved wrong yet again. keragamming said: It has nothing about being uninformed or ignorant, most people are not interested in what happen 100 years ago regarding entertainment. The only time people are interested is when it comes to race, and what happen to their race in the past, but when it comes to things like entertainment, most are not interested in what happen 50 to 100 years ago See, the main problem is, you don't have any argument. All you are doing is projecting your own beliefs into "most people", even though "most people" here doesn't even agree with you, and you seem desperate to hold your ground even if you have no base for anything you say. I know a handful of people who still consume movies from the 20s to the 80s and literature older than a century (including myself), and none of them do so because of their "race". Even most comic books I read are from before the 90s, the decade I was born in. Just because YOU don't like old stuff it doesn't mean NOBODY ELSE likes. It's not a difficult concept to grasp. Zehennagel said: though it's important to note that only a handful of them will be remembered. I can't name more than 10-15 movies from before 2000s, being a "film casual", but yea your point definitely makes sense. Just because you can't it doesn't mean nobody else can. Even as a kid born in the 90s I watched a bunch of 70 and 80 movies. The original Star Wars trilogy was my favorite movie as a child. I think older movies like this will be easily remembered than all the generic superhero stuff that comes in the lots nowadays. |
Satyr_iconOct 2, 2018 12:53 PM
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meatbun_ said: Just because you can't it doesn't mean nobody else can. Even as a kid born in the 90s I watched a bunch of 70 and 80 movies. The original Star Wars trilogy was my favorite movie as a child. I think older movies like this will be easily remembered than all the generic superhero stuff that comes in the lots nowadays. I was saying that about this era. 2000's, 2100's in hundreds of years, there will have been so much content, that I think the "general knowledge"(that means for people who won't "explore" the genre, casuals to say so) will be those 5-10 films from our era that everybody knows, realy, everybody knows them. but of course, cinephiles will exist and so on. so yea I was thinking hundreds of years ahead if not thouthands. |
Zehennagel said: I was saying that about this era. 2000's, 2100's in hundreds of years, there will have been so much content, that I think the "general knowledge"(that means for people who won't "explore" the genre, casuals to say so) will be those 5-10 films from our era that everybody knows, realy, everybody knows them. but of course, cinephiles will exist and so on. so yea I was thinking hundreds of years ahead if not thouthands. I still don't agree with you. The whole idea of "classic" are works which stood the test of time, and are as relevant today as they were in the past. We already had more than two thousand years of art which weren't completely forgotten and are still relevant nowadays, even if most people just come in contact with them by means of parody or adaptation. Just think Moby Dick, a book I'd guess a lot of people outside the US probably don't even know it's a book, or such a "serious" one, but everyone still knows about the story of Ahab and the white whale through popular culture. Yes, most people won't come in direct contact with such works, but they will still be afected by it in one way or another. There's no reason to think that the last 100 years of movies, comics and videogames will be forgotten in the future. With the advents of the internet, it's safe to believe in quite the opposite, I would say. A whole bunch of people never had a Nintendo but played a lot of it through emulation, for example, and Steam's classic or retro games are always hits. Comic books are still relying in nostalgia to this day, etc. |
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