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| They seem to have poured all budget on this fight, easily the best animated part of Apo. I always been a sucker for webgen animation with it's effect spam and it made the episode more expressive than usual. Too bad the rest of episodes will drop the ball in animation most likely. |
| Haha lol, people are saying the animation was good for this episode, it was worse than the Dracula fight, lame. Bye bye Atalanta, you won't be missed. |
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| I am stunned people consider this animation remotely bad, it was incredible. This was definitely the best animated episode of the season, maybe the year. Probably the best animated Fate/ or otherwise Type-Moon piece as well, including works from Ufotable and Silverlink. Karna and Siegfrieds battle was amazing, and truly did justice to what a servant is supposed to be. A-1 certainly exceeded expectations, I am actually shocked by how good it is. Karna vs Siegfried isn't the only highlight either, ofc, the Atalanta fights were great as well. And I should mention the choreography has been consistently excellent lately, especially the Achilles vs Chiron fight earlier. People pausing in between frames and posting shots to prove bad animation, pls stop, that's not what animation means kids. |
InsertanamehereDec 10, 2017 10:38 AM
| The animation honestly didn't even look THAT bad. Was it different from what most of us are used to? Sure, but different doesn't always = bad, drama queens. Karna vs. Sieg was a great fight, and although I'm sad to see Karna go, he went down swinging. Atalanta is finally gone, good riddance. She was getting on my nerves after all that Jack the Ripper stuff went down. Should be interesting to see what Shakespeare can do, Assassin saying Ruler will face her demise against him has me excited to see what he has up his sleeve. |
| People on MAL refuse to actually enjoy watching anime. Your taste in anime isn't a personality trait. MAL is literally just anime Twitter as its own website lol. |
| A1 went all out for this episode and it was definitely worth it,dynamic fights like these look better than some still shots with more detailed art and some effects. Highlight was the farewell between Achilles and Atalanta imo,the moment when the ed kicked in,just beautiful. Overall a very good executed scene. |
One Piece episode 914 & 915 & 1027 were a mistake and 957 brought the salvation - FMmatron |
SogiitaGunha said: I dropped the show halfway, but came back for this episode, since there were a lot of positivity about the animation, and that got me curious. Was it dynamic? Yes. Was it fluid? Yes. Was it creative and cool? Yes. However, my issue is still the same with A-1 Pictures animation in general: Their camera work and fight choreography are abysmal. Good animation needs the viewer to actually grasp what's happening in the screen, and not just mindlessly drooling all over the flashy shit they throw at you with light speed. This is a fatal flaw that easily kills my enjoyment, and this episode heavily suffered from it. The effort was present, but wasted since the core of the staff that works on the anime overall is weak. The choreography was fine though-and this is in fact how the fight is supposed to be presented, explosive, large scale, etc. That said, if you want truly good choreography, just look at the Achilles vs Chiron fight in the last episode. |
| To give you an idea about how good this Karna vs Sieg fight was,even MASAAKI YUASA who has nothing to do with Fate liked it :^) https://twitter.com/masaakiyuasa?lang=en |
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| The best fight scene in the whole series up until now, it was intense, i dont know about the animation, im not a good judge, ppl said it was actually a good one but i didnt really liked it , but seriously i loved the fighting , usually i felt sleepy watching this but not this episode |
| Well, this episode sure had a refreshing vibe to it. While I don’t really have a problem with this episode’s animation, it’s coordination made it much harder for me to follow what’s going on. And I think that’s the reason why I couldn’t enjoy this episode as much. But it’s nice to see how much they’re putting effort to F/A by hiring freelancers. And btw this episode really hit me with how honorable heroic spirit Karna is. He totally gets my respect. —> off to a rewatch round |
| That was some insane animation. Felt like I was watching a Trigger show lol Oh man Karna and Achilles both died T_T rip I'm curious about what Caster is gonna do next episode. |
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| I'm so fed up. I know it's the usual thing that happens in anime but Sieg's side is receiving too much of what I call Protagonist Status! All this damn special treatment! The Red side literally would've mopped the floor with the Black side if things went straight. So many times Red had the upper hand and then Black got some special treatment. And it's not even like the Black side is morally better, um hello the Yggme-whatevers- mass produce homunculi and throw them away like garbage. Had multiple psycho masters (the kid, that pink haired chick, that green haired chick etc) But really I'm just salty because Karna totally should've won. He had the graciousness to even give Sieg an excuse for allowing his servant to help. Hell nah, he cheated during an honourable one-on-one battle that Karna already gave a handicap for. Y U DO THIS KARNA!!! Meh, he has happier that way. Didn't really care about the cause or winning, he just wanted to do his own shit. I understand, but still wish he was given the OP status/results he deserved. Such a polite, awesome servant. Other things to note: Atlanta is a crazy bitch and I hate how Achilles went down with her. Like again, another servant that could've been mopping the floor with someone else from the Black side but decided being a hero was more important xD (Well it is but still) Also I know Rider is everypersonunderthesun's best girl (guy!) but c'mon he should be dead by now. Literally he's still just here for plot/fan service purposes. I know it's too much to ask for because PLOT, but I seriously want Caster to end Ruler. And no I don't want Sieg, Mordred or ANY OTHER PERSON TO COME TO HER DAMN RESCUE |
InugirlzDec 10, 2017 6:56 AM
| Animation was definitely something else this episode, and for the majority I really enjoyed it eventhough it looked completely different and reminded me of the Naruto vs. Pain fight. Sometimes it was just a bit hard to tell what was actually going on with all the lights and explosions and stuff. But yeah pretty nice episode Karna,Atalanta and Achilles all went out in style and rather peacefully. One thing tho, like didn't they say Sieg should be carefull about his tranformations and stuff? How could he go all out like that and be completely fine afterwards? |
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| It's confirmed that like half of the people don't know shit about insane animation and how hard that shit was to animate. To pull something like this off is beyond my imagination, i've seen it all now, best standalone episode i've probably ever seen in terms of animation. |
"Sudden post, but I'm writing this just after a private showing of Apocrypha ep22, since I wasn't able to record it this week. I watched something terrible and wonderful. I can only call it a masterpiece. Even if it was just by circumstance, I'm grateful I got to watch it in the private viewing room. It was animation and a sense of speed worthy of watching on the 200-inch screen. I might even say this is the zenith of Apocrypha's battle direction, having showed us this showsmanship and urgency of motion. Indeed, radiance is this stroke of the pen. Know that this is excellently stylish direction. [eh clumsy translation but it's supposed to resemble Karna's NP line] I witnessed an outpouring of brilliant talent, so much that I couldn't help but laugh during Karna and Sieg's last clash. Of course, it was because it just felt that great. I wanted to stand up and say "oh, bravo!" Apparently the staff working on this episode are quite young, and they were given free reign over the entire episode. I think some ridiculous monster has shown its true power... I want the mistress of the underworld to fight that flashily, too..." -Kinoko Nasu on the ep |
it's nasu he does that a lot my favourite was when he answered a simple question about the einzberns being human or not with a multi paragraph long essay ending on musing on some existensialism on the innocence of artificial intelligences who know how to only do one task, such as to say they love their owner |
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nN4MkyfBNac I will leave this link, just in case... |
| What the hell has happened to Mordred? Did I miss something? |
Siv3001 said: Next and probably the thing I'm most ticked off about is why Karna lost to Siegfried? Karna had previously displayed how op he is against Vlad where he even got impaled and didnt care much and yet he loses to Sieg due to protagonist plot armor and falling in love with Ruler? Since the show didn't really explain it, here's a quick rundown on what happened. This was pretty much the only time Karna is vulnerable to a stab like that. Normally, such attacks would do nothing (such as when he shrugged off being stabbed many times by Vlad's stakes), but if you look carefully, Karna's golden armor bits and earring (Kavacha and Kundala) vanish when he activates his Noble Phanatasm. Kavacha and Kundala are his gifts of divinity from his father, and are integrated into his body like skin, he was born with them on. The king of the gods Indra tried tricking him out of them, and Karna complied because of his generosity but also revealed he was aware of the deception, even though it was like tearing his skin off to remove his birthright armor. Indra was awed by Karna and ashamed of his own behavior so in exchange gave Karna his own weapon, Vasavi Shakti. That's why when activating Vasavi Shakti, which is one of the most powerful Noble Phantasms there is, Karna has to give up his armor of protection, so if it is somehow not enough (in this case thanks to Achilles' Noble Phantasm combined with command spell-boosted Bulmung) for a short period of time Karna is left severely weakened and defenseless. He essentially just ripped his skin off. Karna could have easily won if he wanted to with the armor on, but since Sieg can only transform into Siegfried for three minutes, Karna wanted to conclude their fight by then and go all in. Sieg even with command spell wasn't powerful enough to stop Vasavi Shakti, but Akhilleus Kosmos was able to negate it due to its unique properties, though the shield was destroyed as well. |
Wasshio said: Unfortunately it was tl'd on a pastebin that I can't find and I have no idea if it's even still up Insertanamehere said: it's nasu he does that a lot my favourite was when he answered a simple question about the einzberns being human or not with a multi paragraph long essay ending on musing on some existensialism on the innocence of artificial intelligences who know how to only do one task, such as to say they love their owner Hmm, that's pretty interesting honestly. I might need to go and check that out, since I'm pretty curious about it o.o |
InsertanamehereDec 10, 2017 8:23 AM
Yo! Spoiler mate.It is about to happen. |
| |
I assumed they just skipped over it due to time constraints, whoosh |
Z4k said: Lmao so many dumb people calling this badly animated. This episode was by far THE best animated episode of 2017. I called it ''low budget animation'' cuz it looked like that. Though maybe lot of ppl worked on it but it looks bad and out of place, doesn't fit compared with other episodes. I don't like when animation suddenly changes in the middle of series : / Its like u are watching jojo and suddenly animation changes into madoka's.. it would be weird |
TekakurikaDec 10, 2017 8:47 AM
Siv3001 said: I have to say this episode was poor though it just seemed like the writers had too many op servants and didn't know what to do with em. For starters why did Archelius(excuse my spelling) even care about Astalpho and Sieg shouldn't he have his own wish he wants granted? Next and probably the thing I'm most ticked off about is why Karna lost to Siegfried? Karna had previously displayed how op he is against Vlad where he even got impaled and didnt care much and yet he loses to Sieg due to protagonist plot armor and falling in love with Ruler? Whut?? The only one who's motives made sense and stuck to character is Atalanta otherwise almost everything else about this ep was disappointing as hell in terms of handling its characters. 1. Aquilles promised Chiron to give one part of his NP to his team because he 'somehow' lost their battle when Chiron took his immortality. 2. This was explained at few replies before mine, look it up because I'm not copypasting that. 3. There was not a 'plot armor' there, he didn't won because power of love, he won because the NP of Aquiles and Karna not having his armor on while using his NP. 4. The characters were handled just fine. Sieg saying that he wanted to see again Jeanne was just a way of showing he finally accepted or found that he has deep feelings for her, just that. There are your answers. Besides that, if you don't like it you don't. |
| Good episode. The change in art and animation style was unexpected but damn that was some impressive fight animation they pulled off here. That was a real treat to watch. The fights were stunning. If I were to take this episode standalone with story context then it was pretty damn cool. In context of story, I find the way they killed Karna to be very deus ex machina and complete bullshit, Rider appearing out of nowhere, Achilles being the nice and giving them a NP that can save Sieg from Karna's onslaught, and also whatever in that final clash where Sieg somehow impales Karna. Even if there's some kind of detailed explanation as to how they were able to kill Karna, the very fact they brought out these exact conditions feels like nothing more than plot convenience, Red's servants could probably wipe the floor with everyone on black if they wanted too. Then again, the only way to kill someone as strong as Karna is to go deus ex machina I guess so whatever. Also, I just dislike Sieg so the very fact that he ended up taking out Karna just does not sit right with me. R.I.P Karna, Achilles and Atalanta, you guys were some of my favorite servants in the series. I'm not sure what to look forward to in the following episodes, I'm pretty sure they're gonna find some way to kill of Semiramis as well and I'm gonna be disappointed. :P |
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| There is always a Servant who got killed with spear like weapon huh. |
| Into the Internet! |
| Hhhhmmmmmm now that... THAT WAS FREAKING FANTASTIC. This was the best episode BY FAR in my opinion. Someone give those animators a raise, a gold ribbon, and a slice of cake for their amazing work. I was thinking about defending the people who seem to think your suppose to judge animation by the quality of every single individual frame, but I just got pissed off going further in and decided not to put in the effort. It's fine though, everyone's allowed to have their own opinion, even if it's clearly wrong. HOWEVER I must still add that the sudden style change out of nowhere is really weird, surprised the hell out of me. |
A Wild and Small Otaku has Appeared! |
Siv3001 said: This is a grail war though why did Archelius even feel the need listen to Chiron when Chiron himself stated that they were on opposite sides and he would treat him as such.I can accept the Karna death after the whole explanation I was given earlier. It would've been better if they explained Karna a bit more instead of everything just going the protagonist's way Hum, I suggest you to rewatch the episode 20-21 because they made that point clear. Plus, servants do whatever they want, this is not something new. About Karna thing being explained, yes you're right, they should've have explained the armor thing, but again it's clearly shown that his armor is taken off and that's why he could get hurt. I don't really know much about his myth but I do know that he was untouchable because of his armor ( he also briefly mentioned something about it in the ep where Siegfried and him fight for the first time ) |
| Who's the animator director of this episode? he deserve to be praised! I really like the kind of animation used in this episode, in insane fights i don't care about a consistent and detailed character design, first of all i want sakugas, fluid animation, even if to bring this should be necessary sacrifice some details. It's hard to do this, the animators staff did a great job, would be great having fluid animation and detailed design, but this is way hardier to do. |
Moekou said: Siv3001 said: Next and probably the thing I'm most ticked off about is why Karna lost to Siegfried? Karna had previously displayed how op he is against Vlad where he even got impaled and didnt care much and yet he loses to Sieg due to protagonist plot armor and falling in love with Ruler? Since the show didn't really explain it, here's a quick rundown on what happened. This was pretty much the only time Karna is vulnerable to a stab like that. Normally, such attacks would do nothing (such as when he shrugged off being stabbed many times by Vlad's stakes), but if you look carefully, Karna's golden armor bits and earring (Kavacha and Kundala) vanish when he activates his Noble Phanatasm. Kavacha and Kundala are his gifts of divinity from his father, and are integrated into his body like skin, he was born with them on. The king of the gods Indra tried tricking him out of them, and Karna complied because of his generosity but also revealed he was aware of the deception, even though it was like tearing his skin off to remove his birthright armor. Indra was awed by Karna and ashamed of his own behavior so in exchange gave Karna his own weapon, Vasavi Shakti. That's why when activating Vasavi Shakti, which is one of the most powerful Noble Phantasms there is, Karna has to give up his armor of protection, so if it is somehow not enough (in this case thanks to Achilles' Noble Phantasm combined with command spell-boosted Bulmung) for a short period of time Karna is left severely weakened and defenseless. He essentially just ripped his skin off. Karna could have easily won if he wanted to with the armor on, but since Sieg can only transform into Siegfried for three minutes, Karna wanted to conclude their fight by then and go all in. Sieg even with command spell wasn't powerful enough to stop Vasavi Shakti, but Akhilleus Kosmos was able to negate it due to its unique properties, though the shield was destroyed as well. Thanks for the explanation. I was confused too. But here’s the thing I still can’t forgive. The selling point of the entire fate franchise is to bring back historical heroic figures under a master/servant relationship to fight in a battle royale. Considering this is the greatest appeal of the series it’s darn right despicable that they don’t even put enough effort into showing/explaining these background stories. We have so many awesome figures but we’re just expected to know their stories and do background research or something. Rather than wasting time with the mello drama they should be telling us these things. This is bad writing. Also, just because there is a legitimate explanation for certain events does not make them good ones. For example yes we know Achilles gave his NP to Rider and that’s how Sieg won. But it’s absolutely ridiculous that the injured Rider was able to make it just in the nick of time to save Sieg from a situation where he so obviously should have perished. I’m calling bullshit. Even if they explained how Rider got there so fast, the fact of the matter is using that “just in the nick of time” trope to save Sieg is a cop out. |
| great animation Karna finally got some decent screen time I'm becoming really curious about the Shakespeare; always had the feeling that he is more important than the show lets on |
| I had to educate myself, and look back on the scenes on this episode again. The animation quality is not terrible at all. Maybe it is the change of style or so that caught me off guard. Or the animation that was pretty high detailed for throughout the series of Fate/Apocrypha from the beginning ruined my thought process, and made me judge right away. I guess it is just, I was not use to the style change in this fights that happened in this episode. |
| i liked everything in the episode, except for Karna, idk, that fight didn't feel right to me lol |
favorite "new girls" from summer <3 ... click sig for older seasons and more possible picks (rip all the other choices) |
Inugirlz said: For example yes we know Achilles gave his NP to Rider and that’s how Sieg won. But it’s absolutely ridiculous that the injured Rider was able to make it just in the nick of time to save Sieg from a situation where he so obviously should have perished. Speaking of which, there's more lore-related stuff regarding that I found from the wiki. Normally, it would be impossible for another unrelated servant to just borrow and use a Noble Phantasm's full ability like that. However, Achilles was known for giving away relics in his legend, while Astolfo is known for constantly receiving them in his legend (that's why he has so many different Noble Phantasms, he was constantly collecting magic relics along his adventures) These properties of the two heroes are what allowed Achilles to transfer his Noble Phantasm to Astolfo. |
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