| So I've avoided talking about MGTOW on this forum a lot, since it doesn't have the best reputation and honestly I dislike labels, group think and collective ideologies. I do think I've brought it up in the past, but in this context I'd like to talk about how it specifically affected my relationship with females. As some of you know I hope MGTOW is Men going their own way. Pretty much a sub-set of the manoshere which promotes male sovereignty and discourages acts which could compromise that, specifically long term relationships and marriage. I could go over the reasons behind this, but I don't want this opening post to be longer than it has to be. Needless to say they are not popular with anyone really. Left-wing, right-wing, anti-feminists, feminists, pretty much universally hated on, cause marriage is sacred and men need to dedicate their lives to state and all that jazz. Women in particular are not welcome in the community by definition and most of them are not cool with that. So this raises some questions about how MGTOW ideology affects the people who "practice" it. I'm not one for the whole PUA, pump and dump thing, so I've pretty much avoided relationships and even though I was pretty close this summer I haven't been in one for a good like 4 years. That being said my relationship with women as a whole has improved drastically. I'm not nervous talking to them, I can be more open, cause I don't care what they think about me anymore. A lot more women approach me and I just have an easier time being around women and interacting with them, which has obviously helped me in school and work. Obviously a lot of that had to do with my previous perception of women. Pretty much I put them on the pedestal and MGTOW ideas helped me to bring them down to the same level as everyone else and also stop caring so much about external validation in general and focus on myself and self-improvement. I guess what I want to say is that a lot of people have very distorted ideas about the opposite gender and sometimes need a different perspective to help change that. I recently saw a video on romanticism which I thought was really great and I feel like a lot of people are pretty much indoctrinated into this ideology and have really crazy unrealistic expectations. Personally I'm probably not gonna settle down any time soon, but I feel like my perception of women is at a much healthier place now thanks to MGTOW ideas. Also I'll link the video below... its pretty long, but good shit. |
LoneWolfDec 12, 2016 9:51 PM
 "The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." -Friedrich Nietzsche |
| My problem with groups like this is that they are saying the obvious. It's fine and all if it helps people, it's just silly to me that it takes a "movement" to make men feel like they have worth outside of the social definition of a man, or whatever. There's an irony in the need to label yourself to escape a label (that applies to many desires of this, feminists, black movements, gay movements, etc). It's good you don't overvalue the opposite sex, though. People are people. |
| I became MGTOW about 12 years ago. After my divorce. I purposely spent the next 10 years single. I was brought up in the 1970's and 1980's and we were taught to put women on a pedestal, we were programmed that way, and we needed the obvious to be stated. I am very glad that it does not need to be so obvious these days, you can probably thank MGTOW for that. It has helped me to view women correctly, and see them for what they really are warts and all, so to speak, and like the OP I find it easier and more comfortable to talk with women now, because I too do not give any fucks what they think. It certainly does make it too hard to have a romantic relationship with them, as you do need to protect yourself from misandric laws, and rape hysteria, etc... The pendulum is coming back but not yet enough for men to safely have meaningful relationships and still be equal and protected under law. Lucky for me I am Bi, but otherwise and until the pendulum has enacted protections for me too, relations with women are only non monogamous, and no co-habitation can take place. |
| idk about you but the closer a girl gets to looking like ronald mcdonald, the more aroused i become. CAV where can we cast our eyes to @PoruMairu who thinks of himself a member of the true church. Helion. |
| MGTOW is basically just a coping mechanism for men with problems regarding the opposite sex, much like feminism is for women. Personally, I find it a little bit silly, like a crazy huge overreaction, but hey, I never had any problems with the opposite sex. |
☕ Truth be told, I'm quite proud of my house blend. To attain my flavor and fragrance, I use five different types of coffee beans. ☕ |
| I once had a long term relationship with a character from mario party. It was Birdo. |
 |
So I've avoided talking about MGTOW on this forum a lot Well you failed at that. You do it often enough I already know you're MGTOW and have made various threads about it and commented in various threads about it. It's actually what I know you for most. I'd like to talk about how it specifically affected my relationship with females. Isn't the whole point is to NOT have any kind of relationships with females ? manoshere This term is so stupid. Women in particular are not welcome in the community by definition and most of them are not cool with that. MGTOW is just the male version of separatist feminism with some small differences. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Separatist_feminism Pretty much I put them on the pedestal and MGTOW ideas helped me to bring them down to the same level as everyone else and also stop caring so much about external validation in general and focus on myself and self-improvement. This is in no way unique to MGTOW. I recently saw a video on romanticism which I thought was really great and I feel like a lot of people are pretty much indoctrinated into this ideology and have really crazy unrealistic expectations. Allain De Botton is not that great of a philosopher. I don't think he is entirely wrong but not entirely right either. I dont have patience to watch that video but I assume it's a longer variance of this. Thing is people are generally fairly lazy about relationships once they have who they want then expect it to work out on its own without them doing anything. Bad communication skills or a one sided effort. They often are either too selfish or too forgiving to the point they stick around abusive relationships. That is all that is wrong, not romance in all forms. |
| ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⣸⠋⠀⠀⠀⡄⠀⠀⡔⠀⢀⠀⢸⠀⠀⠀⡘⡰⠁⠘⡀⠀⠀⢠⠀⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠁⠀⣀⠀⠀⡇⠀⡜⠈⠁⠀⢸⡈⢇⠀⠀⢣⠑⠢⢄⣇⠀⠀⠸⠀⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⢰⡟⡀⠀⡇⡜⠀⠀⠀⠀⠘⡇⠈⢆⢰⠁⠀⠀⠀⠘⣆⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠸⠀⠀⡄⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠤⢄⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⡼⠀⣧⠀⢿⢠⣤⣤⣬⣥⠀⠁⠀⠀⠛⢀⡒⠀⠀⠀⠘⡆⡆⠀⠀⠀⡇⠀⠀⠇⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⢵⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⡰⠀⢠⠃⠱⣼⡀⣀⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠈⠛⠳⠶⠶⠆⡸⢀⡀⣀⢰⠀⠀⢸ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⣀⣀⣀⠄⠀⠉⠁⠀⠀⢠⠃⢀⠎⠀⠀⣼⠋⠉⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠴⠢⢄⡔⣕⡍⠣⣱⢸⠀⠀⢷⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⡰⠃⢀⠎⠀⠀⡜⡨⢢⡀⠀⠀⠀⠐⣄⠀⠀⣠⠀⠀⠀⠐⢛⠽⠗⠁⠀⠁⠊⠀⡜⠸⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⢀⠔⣁⡴⠃⠀⡠⡪⠊⣠⣾⣟⣷⡦⠤⣀⡈⠁⠉⢀⣀⡠⢔⠊⠁⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⡤⡗⢀⠇⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⢀⣠⠴⢑⡨⠊⡀⠤⠚⢉⣴⣾⣿⡿⣾⣿⡇⠀⠹⣻⠛⠉⠉⢀⠠⠺⠀⠀⡀⢄⣴⣾⣧⣞⠀⡜⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠐⠒⣉⠠⠄⡂⠅⠊⠁⠀⠀⣴⣿⣿⣿⣿⣻⣿⣿⡇⠀⠀⢠⣷⣮⡍⡠⠔⢉⡇⡠⠋⠁⠀⣿⣿⣿⣿⣄⠀⠀⠀⠀ |
| Here is my two cents. I see no problem with "men going their own way" However from what I have seen people from mgtow are incredibly paranoid about women...due to their personal experiences. Its basically judging an entire sex because of the misdeeds of a few. However in order to avoid being called a hypocrite....I will say that likely not everyone in mgtow are like this. Just the ones I have personally talked to. They think all women are manipulative, and are out to ruin your life. Now here is the thing...you can't blame men for not wanting to get married, when there isn't much of an incentive to do so. The problem with this movement is its a borderline cult. Kinda like feminism in a way. They are telling people what to think, and how to behave. If you think that you need mgtow...then have at it hoss, but I like thinking for myself. |
astrozombie84 said: ^ThisHere is my two cents. I see no problem with "men going their own way" However from what I have seen people from mgtow are incredibly paranoid about women...due to their personal experiences. Its basically judging an entire sex because of the misdeeds of a few. Judging from what I've seen most of them are more or less radical meninists (AKA radical feminists in the reverse) The horseshoe theory is strong with this one |
 Nico- said: Conversations with people pinging/quoting me to argue about some old post I wrote years ago will not be entertained@Comic_Sans oh no y arnt ppl dieing i need more ppl dieing rly gud plot avansement jus liek tokyo ghoul if erbudy dies amirite |
Lux_Lucis said: I have my own ideology, it's as consistent and precise as hands on the clock, that I won't trade for any other anytime soon. Share your ideology please, Jesus-senpai. I'm pretty sure we all want to hear something other than Christian theology from you. On-topic: Creating entire movements for a purpose which could be attained by a little contemplation and self-reflection always creates more problems than it wishes to solve. The problems of MGTOW are becoming apparent in how its members are so paranoid. If ridiculing the object of your desires is the only way you can fulfill your desires, then you are really just a coward. |
| MGTOW is mostly a way for men to hate women, it's hardly ever about men's rights. actually its pretty much only hating women. |
an egomaniac and a fool |
| I've never heard about it before, but it seems like the type of philosophy divorcees and perpetual undateables come up with to cope with their loneliness. |
| there really isn't an end to the amount of dumb acronyms people refer to themselves as is there. |
| So, it's basically Single Males Anonymous then, right? I can see their reason behind their motives, but I think they're overdoing it by maintaining an entire movement based on this sentiment. But all these gender-exclusive groups harping on about independence and the avoidance of relationships are uncannily resemblant of the disgust going on between girls and boys in kindergarten. manoshere Bloody hellfire what the hell is that poor excuse of a word? Why is the creation of ideologies always accompanied by phrases that don't make any sense at all? |
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| I'm having the impression that MGTOW is a party for straight and virgin guys. Sorry if I misunderstood. |
| Today they say you're crazy, tomorrow they will say you're a genious. |
| @Traed @Daphne It seems like the majority of people you don't really get MGTOW and you think it's just about hating women. I guess that's understandable given the majority of popular content, but it's an individualistic ideology at heart, so it's kind of hard to tell someone how to "go their own way". Avoiding women completely in modern society is kind of impossible and I have no idea why you would think that was a goal. It's more about dealing with them in a way that doesn't compromise yourself. Like I said I don't really like labels and I don't really identify with any, but MGTOW is one of the only places where you're allowed to practice freedom of speech in regards to gender relations and men's issues. |
LoneWolfDec 14, 2016 10:50 PM
"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." -Friedrich Nietzsche |
| I think my response was pretty neutral. I basically said the self help stuff isnt bad but just nothing unique. I have no preconceptions of MGTOW, all I know about it is entirely from people who themselves claim to be MGTOW. Walking past someone isnt a relationship unless it's a worker relationship. I've seen plenty of MGTOW who refuse to even be friends with girls because they dont trust them. |
| ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⣸⠋⠀⠀⠀⡄⠀⠀⡔⠀⢀⠀⢸⠀⠀⠀⡘⡰⠁⠘⡀⠀⠀⢠⠀⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠁⠀⣀⠀⠀⡇⠀⡜⠈⠁⠀⢸⡈⢇⠀⠀⢣⠑⠢⢄⣇⠀⠀⠸⠀⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⢰⡟⡀⠀⡇⡜⠀⠀⠀⠀⠘⡇⠈⢆⢰⠁⠀⠀⠀⠘⣆⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠸⠀⠀⡄⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠤⢄⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⡼⠀⣧⠀⢿⢠⣤⣤⣬⣥⠀⠁⠀⠀⠛⢀⡒⠀⠀⠀⠘⡆⡆⠀⠀⠀⡇⠀⠀⠇⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⢵⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⡰⠀⢠⠃⠱⣼⡀⣀⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠈⠛⠳⠶⠶⠆⡸⢀⡀⣀⢰⠀⠀⢸ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⣀⣀⣀⠄⠀⠉⠁⠀⠀⢠⠃⢀⠎⠀⠀⣼⠋⠉⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠴⠢⢄⡔⣕⡍⠣⣱⢸⠀⠀⢷⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⡰⠃⢀⠎⠀⠀⡜⡨⢢⡀⠀⠀⠀⠐⣄⠀⠀⣠⠀⠀⠀⠐⢛⠽⠗⠁⠀⠁⠊⠀⡜⠸⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⢀⠔⣁⡴⠃⠀⡠⡪⠊⣠⣾⣟⣷⡦⠤⣀⡈⠁⠉⢀⣀⡠⢔⠊⠁⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⡤⡗⢀⠇⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⢀⣠⠴⢑⡨⠊⡀⠤⠚⢉⣴⣾⣿⡿⣾⣿⡇⠀⠹⣻⠛⠉⠉⢀⠠⠺⠀⠀⡀⢄⣴⣾⣧⣞⠀⡜⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠐⠒⣉⠠⠄⡂⠅⠊⠁⠀⠀⣴⣿⣿⣿⣿⣻⣿⣿⡇⠀⠀⢠⣷⣮⡍⡠⠔⢉⡇⡠⠋⠁⠀⣿⣿⣿⣿⣄⠀⠀⠀⠀ |
| MGTOW aka men who couldn't get GFs so kid themselves into thinking they're choosing to be single |
| You know I feel like I'm being a bit too defensive about the movement. I recognize there are a lot of unsavory people who espouse to be MGTOW and follow it's teachings. Genuine misogynists and people who have just given up not only on women, but many things in life. It's unfortunate that they can't see the brighter side of things and work towards personal development and fulfillment and instead just rely on bashing women to get their kicks, but overall I feel like listening to MGTOW content has improved my life significantly. I don't have to feel like a loser for being single or unmarried. There are so many other things in life to focus on. Money, career, martial arts, health, fitness, cooking. It's just sad that so many men think the only thing that can bring them happiness in life is a girlfriend. Yes I've had negative experiences in the past and I don't want to put myself through needless drama and angst. When you live in a society that tells you that you need to be married and have a gf and romantic relationship to have any sort of happy of fulfilling life its good to break out of the echo chamber and look at things from the other side once in a while. |
"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." -Friedrich Nietzsche |
Daphne said: MGTOW is mostly a way for men to hate women, it's hardly ever about men's rights. actually its pretty much only hating women. You're conflating MGTOW with MRA. While the two are closely intertwined, they don't exactly mean the same thing. And while there is certainly a degree of misogyny within both movements, it isn't a core tenet. |
| People who put MAL stats in their sigs are losers lol |
Korrvo said: MGTOW is basically just a coping mechanism for men with problems regarding the opposite sex, much like feminism is for women. Personally, I find it a little bit silly, like a crazy huge overreaction, but hey, I never had any problems with the opposite sex. This all day long. I'm all for finding your own validation of yourself outside of a relationship, I think it's vital if you're ever going to have healthy interactions with other people at all, but MGTOW has this really nasty redpill undercurrent running through it that can be really really toxic. It's great if it helps people start to value themselves as more than just "one half of a relationship" or "something to make a woman happy", but the minute it starts tipping into purposely depriving yourself of a relationship it becomes very toxic and there are certain subsects of MGTOW that do that (and actively demonise women) that would be very easy for a hurting or vulnerable man to fall into. And I say this as someone who had a terrible, terrible relationship five years ago and has been single since. Finding yourself is great, exercising caution in whomever you choose to pursue a romantic or sexual relationship with is great, but MGTOW is a fucking rabbithole. |
| You can't fire me, I quit. In all seriousness, my impression of MGTOW is a paranoid, anti-social expression of platitudes that are fine in themselves. It's great that it's helped some people, but fostering paranoia and anti-social attitudes is not great. For example, this view of women does not sound remotely "correct" or healthy to me. PoruMairu said: I became MGTOW about 12 years ago. After my divorce. I purposely spent the next 10 years single. I was brought up in the 1970's and 1980's and we were taught to put women on a pedestal, we were programmed that way, and we needed the obvious to be stated. I am very glad that it does not need to be so obvious these days, you can probably thank MGTOW for that. It has helped me to view women correctly, and see them for what they really are warts and all, so to speak, and like the OP I find it easier and more comfortable to talk with women now, because I too do not give any fucks what they think. It certainly does make it too hard to have a romantic relationship with them, as you do need to protect yourself from misandric laws, and rape hysteria, etc... The pendulum is coming back but not yet enough for men to safely have meaningful relationships and still be equal and protected under law. Lucky for me I am Bi, but otherwise and until the pendulum has enacted protections for me too, relations with women are only non monogamous, and no co-habitation can take place. |
LoneWolf said: @Josh makes me sad to call myself Canadian. |
Seiya said: I meant anti-social in the first sense, rather than the second.What's wrong with being anti-social? It's the future you know. In 10 years, nobody is going to meet their "friends" face-to-face. You live in Canada, so you should know first-hand how cancerous modern women are. "anti-social 1. contrary to the laws and customs of society; devoid of or antagonistic to sociable instincts or practices. 2. not sociable; not wanting the company of others." Being antagonistic to sociable instincts (e.g. avoiding women or bringing a paranoid cynicism to interactions with them) is a surefire way to make life harder and less enjoyable. Whether that's "wrong", you can decide. I assume that by "modern women" you mean young, progressive-leaning, university-educated women. I know many of them and I don't see the problem. Being young and educated myself, I generally prefer modern women to pre-modern women — no offence to all the pre-modern ladies out there. |
LoneWolf said: @Josh makes me sad to call myself Canadian. |
| Not really. Both of my parents came from working class families, though my dad did became a professional. |
LoneWolf said: @Josh makes me sad to call myself Canadian. |
| I think MGTOW got some nice ideas and I appreciate their attempt at finding value in life unrelated to attracting women. It's a form of non-conformity, rejecting society judging your value by how much women are attracted to you. It's about loving yourself even if women dislike you. There's no difference between it and the whole 'against fat shaming' thing. The problem is, you still find a lot of hostility towards women there. These aren't just people deciding they're abandoning romantic relationships, but they view women as intentionally trying to harm them. |
| WEAPONS - My blog, for reviews of music, anime, books, and other things |
| I'm just glad I live on a nonfeminist country and misandry and misogyny is virtually non-existent. Women are subject to submission (and they comply happily) and men must act as its protector (without actually exploiting their opposite sex), that is, traditional gender roles stuff. But imo it's more better than the stupid social movements in the West, since most people are satisfied and happy. |
JomsDec 14, 2016 9:08 AM
| I'm reminded why I have no faith in humanity. Thanks OP, and literally EVERYONE ELSE in this forum. I needed another dose of reality. |
"I'd take rampant lesbianism over nuclear armageddon or a supervolcano any day." ~nikiforova |
genesic123 said: TheBrainintheJar said: I think MGTOW got some nice ideas and I appreciate their attempt at finding value in life unrelated to attracting women. It's a form of non-conformity, rejecting society judging your value by how much women are attracted to you. It's about loving yourself even if women dislike you. There's no difference between it and the whole 'against fat shaming' thing. The problem is, you still find a lot of hostility towards women there. These aren't just people deciding they're abandoning romantic relationships, but they view women as intentionally trying to harm them. Cause by laws and accusations, woman actually harm men. Is there a systematic ideology intended to harm men, or harms men as a by-product? |
| WEAPONS - My blog, for reviews of music, anime, books, and other things |
Josh said: You can't fire me, I quit. In all seriousness, my impression of MGTOW is a paranoid, anti-social expression of platitudes that are fine in themselves. It's great that it's helped some people, but fostering paranoia and anti-social attitudes is not great. For example, this view of women does not sound remotely "correct" or healthy to me. PoruMairu said: I became MGTOW about 12 years ago. After my divorce. I purposely spent the next 10 years single. I was brought up in the 1970's and 1980's and we were taught to put women on a pedestal, we were programmed that way, and we needed the obvious to be stated. I am very glad that it does not need to be so obvious these days, you can probably thank MGTOW for that. It has helped me to view women correctly, and see them for what they really are warts and all, so to speak, and like the OP I find it easier and more comfortable to talk with women now, because I too do not give any fucks what they think. It certainly does make it too hard to have a romantic relationship with them, as you do need to protect yourself from misandric laws, and rape hysteria, etc... The pendulum is coming back but not yet enough for men to safely have meaningful relationships and still be equal and protected under law. Lucky for me I am Bi, but otherwise and until the pendulum has enacted protections for me too, relations with women are only non monogamous, and no co-habitation can take place. I see that you were born in 1991. My child is the same age as you. I want you to consider that for a moment. People my age do not say things lightly. I have been through hell and back, I have been through periods of crippling self-doubt, depression, alcohol abuse, relationships where I have been physically abused, and I am still here to tell a story. I am not some 15 year old kid. I have lived a lifetime through multiple career changes, studied Engineering, IT, and Theology at University level, kept a roof over the head of my dependents, helped build churches, been on school councils, been through a lot of stages in life. It is so easy to negate someone else's life experiences. but the wise will listen to these years of experience. I never have said i hate women. We are all equal. But I have been through the school of hard knocks, and I don't have to worry about other people's opinions anymore. I have lived it. I have full confidence in my own experiences, and I take full ownership of my own shit choices in life. Go ahead and laugh buddy. I know for a fact that I have been through the lot and I am still smiling. I still try to love people no matter who they are. Just because I use the label MGTOW doesn't mean that I am part of a pre-conceived collective. My ex-wife and I still have a good relationship. You have a lot to learn. |
| idk about you but the closer a girl gets to looking like ronald mcdonald, the more aroused i become. CAV where can we cast our eyes to @PoruMairu who thinks of himself a member of the true church. Helion. |
| men going their own way? wow, that's a new one. Sounds like the worst idea ever xD Like um, NO lololol |
| I CELEBRATE myself, And what I assume you shall assume, For every atom belonging to me as good belongs to you. |
genesic123 said: TheBrainintheJar said: Is there a systematic ideology intended to harm men, or harms men as a by-product? The arm of the law is biased towards woman.You could lose your job for being offensive to woman.Women have special privileges just for being one,power without responsibility. That's true, yet what makes you think the law is all there is? |
| WEAPONS - My blog, for reviews of music, anime, books, and other things |
| @Faederwulf I really don't understand where you are coming from. Honestly the whole traditional conservative (tradcon) stuff just makes no sense to me. Why do you want to go back in time? Do you think men were happier before? I don't want to spend my life making a woman happy and keeping her in line when I know she wouldn't do the same for me. Do you think she really loves you? Do you think she cares about your feelings and wants to make you happy? Do you think she actually gives a shit about you outside of what you can do for her? Is it cause you want to pass down your genetic legacy? In a few generations it will be so diluted it won't even matter. If you have siblings with kids then your genes will live on either way. The funny thing is this kind of marriage is completely acceptable in my culture, I could get an arranged marriage to some 18yo virgin girl back in the country and no one would bat at eye. My parents are 10 yrs apart and their marriage was arranged. They are fucking miserable and just barely tolerate each other. They are only together for me and my sister. Going back in time is not the answer. Sacrificing your own happiness and freedom for your wife and your kids might be worth it for you, but definitely not for me. I was having a chat with some people I really respected in the MGTOW community and it was really enlightening. This is mostly pertaining to people on Youtube, but it was pretty much a consensus that the community was going to shit and just repeating itself or bashing women and a lot of the really great guys had either left or stopped producing content. I guess you can say that many men went their own way, even from MGTOW itself lol. Either way I'll still enjoy the videos and messages that helped me through tough times and reminded me what is important. @PoruMairu is right, without going through any hardship it is difficult to have perspective on what is truly important in life. At the end of the day happiness is in your own hands and your life is what you make of it. However you may live your life, make sure it is on your own terms. Go your own way and never let anyone strip away your freedom or come in between your happiness. |
LoneWolfDec 16, 2016 1:09 PM
"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." -Friedrich Nietzsche |
| @Faederwulf My biggest reasons for not being interested in marriage are first and foremost the laws around divorce. It is extremely easy for a woman to completely destroy your life in court and take everything away from you. Your kids, your money, your house, your car, you will be lucky to escape with your dignity and life. Worst case scenario you will end up in jail for not being able to pay child support and alimony or you will end up like the many men that take their lives after divorce... Even celebrities are not immune to this. One of the people who I greatly respected and admired comedian and actor Robin Williams took his life in large part because he was forced to keep working to pay his divorce settlements. One his most powerful quotes.  Second is just observing married people including my parents... they are fucking miserable, all of them. My neighbors are miserable, I can hear them fighting next door every few days. I've been around enough married couples to know that they are not happy with this and are usually only together for the children. Most people are not even that considerate and thus we have a ridiculous divorce rate of almost 50% in all western/developed countries. The divorce industry and courts are incredibly corrupt and biased. I highly suggest you watch the documentary called "Divorce Corp". These fucking disgusting divorce lawyers that are profiting off peoples misery are living lives of extreme luxury. They will encourage woman to lie about domestic and child abuse to get more money out of their men and the courts will almost always side with the woman unless you have mountains of evidence that she is abusive. They would rather give the kids to a mother addicted to drugs than the father. Marriage is a social construct and it is not about you and your wife, but about you and the state. This is why there is such a thing as common-law marriage when you live with a partner in the same place for a certain amount of time the state steps in and deems that you are married and you have to face all the same consequences. If you really just wanted to be with someone you don't need a piece of paper from the state and a ridiculously expensive wedding ceremony and rings to prove it. This is probably the most important point aside from divorce, but people change. I changed so much from who I was 2 years ago. My beliefs, my lifestyle, my body. I am a completely different person. What makes you think she will always be the same? What makes you think you will always be the same? People change all the time and emotions are fickle. Right now you might think she loves you and will never divorce you, but what about 2 years down the line? 5 years? 10 years? People change no matter how much you want them to stay the same. And look man... you are are not put on this earth simply to spread your genes. Many great people did not reproduce, yet they have left a great legacy and people respect and admire them to this day. For example Nikola Tesla, Isaac Newton and yes even Friedrich Nietzsche. Like you said your siblings already have children so there is no need to worry about your genetic legacy. I don't see how you plan to force your future generations to breed within their own ethnicity. In a few years things like ethnicity will not even be a big deal. I don't want to go all transhumanist, but technology is improving and soon we will have things like artificial wombs and designer babies. |
LoneWolfDec 16, 2016 10:57 PM
"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." -Friedrich Nietzsche |
genesic123 said: There is also that biological need to cater to women but I did not simply say the law is all that is. You misunderstood. Some laws may favor women, but what makes you think it means the situation is, in general, better for women? |
| WEAPONS - My blog, for reviews of music, anime, books, and other things |
| Well, I find some of MGTOW ideas good. Men shouldn't treat women specially, as if they were some kind of angelic creatures. They don't have to commit to a relationship compulsorily just because that is what society expects from them either. I respect those points. But when I see that a large amount of MGTOW members are bitter women haters, who blame them for everything is going wrong with their lives, I can't take it more seriously than feminazism. They are two sides of the same coin. |
 |
| Never would have thought that you need a whole movement to see human value outside a relationship. |
Kotoneko-chan said: Well, I find some of MGTOW ideas good. Men shouldn't treat women specially, as if they were some kind of angelic creatures. They don't have to commit to a relationship compulsorily just because that is what society expects from them either. I respect those points. But when I see that a large amount of MGTOW members are bitter women haters, who blame them for everything is going wrong with their lives, I can't take it more seriously than feminazism. They are two sides of the same coin. Once you remove the misogyny, MGTOW is a natural side-effect of feminism. Just as women realize they can be valued outside of a relationship, so can guys. |
| WEAPONS - My blog, for reviews of music, anime, books, and other things |
TheBrainintheJar said: Kotoneko-chan said: Well, I find some of MGTOW ideas good. Men shouldn't treat women specially, as if they were some kind of angelic creatures. They don't have to commit to a relationship compulsorily just because that is what society expects from them either. I respect those points. But when I see that a large amount of MGTOW members are bitter women haters, who blame them for everything is going wrong with their lives, I can't take it more seriously than feminazism. They are two sides of the same coin. Once you remove the misogyny, MGTOW is a natural side-effect of feminism. Just as women realize they can be valued outside of a relationship, so can guys. And I find that great, as I said before. Everybody have the right to be valued outside a relationship. But when I see those "OMG, women are evil creatures who will suck up your soul as soon as you turn your back", they remind me of "All men are dirty rapist pigs who mistreat women" xD |
|
| n Korrvo said: No it's not at all, it's realising that the "american dream" of a wife,family and a house is a giant waste of time, money and effort so we go do what we want instead of that and live on our own terms in the world and do what best suits us. It's called men going their own way for a reason.MGTOW is basically just a coping mechanism for men with problems regarding the opposite sex, much like feminism is for women. Personally, I find it a little bit silly, like a crazy huge overreaction, but hey, I never had any problems with the opposite sex. |
Allen-Owen said: And needing a big, over-dramatic movement for realizing your preferred way of life makes it beyond silly.n Korrvo said: No it's not at all, it's realising that the "american dream" of a wife,family and a house is a giant waste of time, money and effort so we go do what we want instead of that and live on our own terms in the world and do what best suits us. It's called men going their own way for a reason.MGTOW is basically just a coping mechanism for men with problems regarding the opposite sex, much like feminism is for women. Personally, I find it a little bit silly, like a crazy huge overreaction, but hey, I never had any problems with the opposite sex. https://youtu.be/-N0yXGVWS1Y If you wanna go your own way, then do it quietly. |
☕ Truth be told, I'm quite proud of my house blend. To attain my flavor and fragrance, I use five different types of coffee beans. ☕ |
| mgtow isn't a movement it's disengagement from the path that society tells us to live. The problem it has is it's been hijacked by basement dwelling losers who use it as a safe space to protect them from reality that they can't get laid and instead lie to themselves that it's their choice. The actual mgtow philosophy is basically living life on your terms, the easiest way to explain it would be like a person such as zoro from one piece who instead follows his own goals and dreams above anything else just like every other pirate in that show. Mgtow is about doing what's in your own best interest, it's saying that my own life matters and i will live it how i see fit and screw anyone who doesn't like it. |
Allen-Owen said: This was better explained.mgtow isn't a movement it's disengagement from the path that society tells us to live. The problem it has is it's been hijacked by basement dwelling losers who use it as a safe space to protect them from reality that they can't get laid and instead lie to themselves that it's their choice. The actual mgtow philosophy is basically living life on your terms, the easiest way to explain it would be like a person such as zoro from one piece who instead follows his own goals and dreams above anything else just like every other pirate in that show. Mgtow is about doing what's in your own best interest, it's saying that my own life matters and i will live it how i see fit and screw anyone who doesn't like it. I still don't see why this philosophy needs a label, but living your life how you wish seems like common sense to me anyway, and has since I was a small child. |
☕ Truth be told, I'm quite proud of my house blend. To attain my flavor and fragrance, I use five different types of coffee beans. ☕ |
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