Vladz0r said: Hahaha. That's great.http://i.imgur.com/ICENnKB.png |
LoneWolf said: @Josh makes me sad to call myself Canadian. |
| since there's talk about Kyoani and how they did Clannad going on right now, I'd like to add this, Haruhi Suzumiya is obviously the director of Clannad, here is a line from the dubbed version of episode 21: and this is what they would have done with LB if it had been directed by Kyo-ani :3 |
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smilewolfy said: since there's talk about Kyoani and how they did Clannad going on right now, I'd like to add this, Haruhi Suzumiya is obviously the director of Clannad, here is a line from the dubbed version of episode 21: and this is what they would have done with LB if it had been directed by Kyo-ani :3 Agree, not just because i'm fan of KyoAni, but the prequel of refrain is pretty medicore in nearly every aspects. JC Staff has wasted this godness good material from Key and ruined it with lackluster art. Sure recently KyoAni had a bad time with it's own series, but learning from Air, Kanon, and of course Clannad, it;s unlikely they'll ruin LB jut like JC Staff doing right now. By the way, Refrain had a lot of improvement, but getting big 5 is unlikely, big 50 is still possible |
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| I still think that a lot of the buildup was objectvely solid, focused, and laid the foundation for the series. I mean, seriously, Refrain is the heart of Little Busters, and it's like 80-90% of what made it good. It seems like they could be saving budget for when it starts, and next episode will have all of JC Staff's best screenplay/directors (according to the 2ch post that listed them. Yamakawa - storyboard (he does the Opening/ED, route endings) Animation Directors: Ena Nishikawa, Yuko Yoshida, Mineko Ueda (They usually work on the route endings for key animation and animation directing. The next episode will pretty much decide the fate of the rest of Refrain. |
| It's trying too hard to build up emotions and stuff...the background music is annoying too imo so no....just no..... please noooo |
| <img src="http://img245.imageshack.us/img245/4424/jeff1244.png" border="0" /> |
Vladz0r said: hyperknees91 said: And Vladzor if you're curious about reviewers point of view on the earlier episodes. They were just curious on why the anime needed to even happen in the first place. Cool, and I've said on this forum dozen of times that I don't really care for people who aren't going to give the anime a chance. At least with Little Busters there was always an underlying mystery, so Good Job to those deciding it's not worth watching before it even gets unveiled. I also think LB might have the same "problem" as After Story with the ending, though I think it was better because of how character-driven it was (Riki and Rin becoming stronger and saving them) rather than Clannad's otherworldly and omnipotent supernatural force. And @ your first statement with the episodes being completely incoherent with the rest of the plot. This is the exact thing I've been getting at with Little Busters. The series is much more focused, character-driven, and climactic than Clannad. It might need more episodes, but I think it can still build itself up to be a very emotional experience come the end of Refrain. Kurugaya's route in the anime at least has significant continuity in the story. What Clannad route in the anime was still relevant when Tomoya and Nagisa were living together in After Story? I can't think of any that are quite up there with Kurugaya's, story-wise. Anyway, I think the Secret is being done well and people will get a lot out of the show come the Refrain arc. Well, Misae's arc was kind of important because it introduces you to the orbs of light. But that's about it really :/ |
| The show would have to break 9.00 to reach the top 5. There is no way. I really can't imagine Little Busters reaching 8.60, and to do that the next 6 episodes would have to be amazing enough to erase the mediocrity left over from season one. |
GarLogan78 said: if anything the apparently mediocre first season is helping it's score than anything, the first season really urked people in the wrong way and the overhype of it just made people more off put of it, its more likley those that didnt enjoy season 1 will not start refrain and wont believe people who say refrain is some masterpiece because people said the same damn shit for the first season so they wont believe themThe show would have to break 9.00 to reach the top 5. There is no way. I really can't imagine Little Busters reaching 8.60, and to do that the next 6 episodes would have to be amazing enough to erase the mediocrity left over from season one. less people who disliked season 1 would pick up refrain = higher score |
Immahnoob said: Jizzy, I know you have no idea how to argue for shit, tokiyashiro said: Jizzy as you would call yourself because youre a dick The most butthurt award goes to you And clearly you havent watched that many shows thats why you cant determine if a show is unique or not Or maybe you're just a child who likes common stuffs where hero saves the day and guys gets all the girls. Sad taste you have there kid you came up to me in the first place making you look more like a kid who got slapped without me even knowing it and start crying about it to me |
GarLogan78 said: The show would have to break 9.00 to reach the top 5. There is no way. I really can't imagine Little Busters reaching 8.60, and to do that the next 6 episodes would have to be amazing enough to erase the mediocrity left over from season one. It has the potential to. The Refrain route was what pushed the Little Busters Visual Novel away from mediocrity and into god-tier. Seriously, in comparison to other VNs, Little Busters was pretty mediocre most of the way through. But you finish Refrain and realise that it's in no way mediocre. But if J.C. fuck up Refrain by some kind of weird magic, then us VN fans will have to hang our heads in shame and hope that KyoAni pick it up. |
Seano299 said: I'm hearing mixed things about how JC staff is adapting refrain, but one thing seems to be pretty agreed upon was that 1 cour for it was a mistake, but hey thats most adaptions so if it fails you guys can always fall back on that, cause thats a legit excuseGarLogan78 said: The show would have to break 9.00 to reach the top 5. There is no way. I really can't imagine Little Busters reaching 8.60, and to do that the next 6 episodes would have to be amazing enough to erase the mediocrity left over from season one. It has the potential to. The Refrain route was what pushed the Little Busters Visual Novel away from mediocrity and into god-tier. Seriously, in comparison to other VNs, Little Busters was pretty mediocre most of the way through. But you finish Refrain and realise that it's in no way mediocre. But if J.C. fuck up Refrain by some kind of weird magic, then us VN fans will have to hang our heads in shame and hope that KyoAni pick it up. |
Immahnoob said: Jizzy, I know you have no idea how to argue for shit, tokiyashiro said: Jizzy as you would call yourself because youre a dick The most butthurt award goes to you And clearly you havent watched that many shows thats why you cant determine if a show is unique or not Or maybe you're just a child who likes common stuffs where hero saves the day and guys gets all the girls. Sad taste you have there kid you came up to me in the first place making you look more like a kid who got slapped without me even knowing it and start crying about it to me |
JizzyHitler said: Seano299 said: I'm hearing mixed things about how JC staff is adapting refrain, but one thing seems to be pretty agreed upon was that 1 cour for it was a mistake, but hey thats most adaptions so if it fails you guys can always fall back on that, cause thats a legit excuseGarLogan78 said: The show would have to break 9.00 to reach the top 5. There is no way. I really can't imagine Little Busters reaching 8.60, and to do that the next 6 episodes would have to be amazing enough to erase the mediocrity left over from season one. It has the potential to. The Refrain route was what pushed the Little Busters Visual Novel away from mediocrity and into god-tier. Seriously, in comparison to other VNs, Little Busters was pretty mediocre most of the way through. But you finish Refrain and realise that it's in no way mediocre. But if J.C. fuck up Refrain by some kind of weird magic, then us VN fans will have to hang our heads in shame and hope that KyoAni pick it up. Eh. I think 2 cour would've been disasterous as well. It would've been too slow and they would've dragged it out too far. How I feel LB should've been adapted. 26 episodes both seasons. Three character routes, all 6 episodes, in season 1, then two character routes, also 6 episodes, and Refrain in season 2. I think that would've been good for the show in the long run. So therefore, I think the major problem was their overall decisions for arc lengths. |
MCAL said: Judging by some reactions of anime only viewers I would have to agree that two cours would have been bad. They just want to know the secret already and making the series longer definitely wouldn't help that. I think this pacing is fine. Hell, some of them felt the latest episodes pacing was too slow. So for the record having two two cour season could be seen as a bad idea too. EDIT: And would people just shut up about Kyo-Ani. They first seem to forget that Kyo-Ani didn't want to adapt LB in the first place. And their latest work on Kyoukai no Kanata seems to prove they should stay away from adapting material for awhile. ^^^^ |
| この世界には。。。秘密がある |
Seano299 said: i see, thats completely different than i heard or expected, though being slow is usually better than be rushed most of the timeJizzyHitler said: Seano299 said: I'm hearing mixed things about how JC staff is adapting refrain, but one thing seems to be pretty agreed upon was that 1 cour for it was a mistake, but hey thats most adaptions so if it fails you guys can always fall back on that, cause thats a legit excuseGarLogan78 said: The show would have to break 9.00 to reach the top 5. There is no way. I really can't imagine Little Busters reaching 8.60, and to do that the next 6 episodes would have to be amazing enough to erase the mediocrity left over from season one. It has the potential to. The Refrain route was what pushed the Little Busters Visual Novel away from mediocrity and into god-tier. Seriously, in comparison to other VNs, Little Busters was pretty mediocre most of the way through. But you finish Refrain and realise that it's in no way mediocre. But if J.C. fuck up Refrain by some kind of weird magic, then us VN fans will have to hang our heads in shame and hope that KyoAni pick it up. Eh. I think 2 cour would've been disasterous as well. It would've been too slow and they would've dragged it out too far. How I feel LB should've been adapted. 26 episodes both seasons. Three character routes, all 6 episodes, in season 1, then two character routes, also 6 episodes, and Refrain in season 2. I think that would've been good for the show in the long run. So therefore, I think the major problem was their overall decisions for arc lengths. |
Immahnoob said: Jizzy, I know you have no idea how to argue for shit, tokiyashiro said: Jizzy as you would call yourself because youre a dick The most butthurt award goes to you And clearly you havent watched that many shows thats why you cant determine if a show is unique or not Or maybe you're just a child who likes common stuffs where hero saves the day and guys gets all the girls. Sad taste you have there kid you came up to me in the first place making you look more like a kid who got slapped without me even knowing it and start crying about it to me |
| Gotta wait and see how Masato's arc goes next episode. If they can't at least handle that well, and put some good budget and directing into it, then it's likely that the impact of the climax of Refrain won't reach the level of something like Angel beats or Ano Hana, let alone After Story. |
Seano299 said: GarLogan78 said: The show would have to break 9.00 to reach the top 5. There is no way. I really can't imagine Little Busters reaching 8.60, and to do that the next 6 episodes would have to be amazing enough to erase the mediocrity left over from season one. It has the potential to. The Refrain route was what pushed the Little Busters Visual Novel away from mediocrity and into god-tier. Seriously, in comparison to other VNs, Little Busters was pretty mediocre most of the way through. But you finish Refrain and realise that it's in no way mediocre. But if J.C. fuck up Refrain by some kind of weird magic, then us VN fans will have to hang our heads in shame and hope that KyoAni pick it up. If that is the case, I guess I will wait and see. But I am worried that Refrain is getting hyped just as much as LB! as a whole was when it got an anime announcement. I mean, Refrain literally seems to be best thing since sliced bread based on the VN readers opinions of it. And if it is able to make earlier aspects of LB! seem not bad or worth it, that will definitely be an accomplishment. |
| Heh, it's like JC Staff focused so much on the Secret and pushed the characters aside. I guess those 200+ hints and foreshadowings (super spoilers, don't look unless you read the VN- http://imgur.com/a/8Afqd ) People are not really seeing what's going on with the characters, I guess. There's also more of a feeling of detachment with how the anime is done, compared to having the big sprites of everyone in your face. Clannad doesn't have that problem due to it's great animation, but LB has a ton of zoomouts where you're sort of watching all the LBs do their own thing, and you're not really connected with them. The only parts that came close to the VN were the Pancake Party and Harem Sleepover, in terms of really showing the fun that the LBs are having without it feeling detaching, I guess. 1 episode per could change people's opinions, but the next 6 episodes will have to be godlike in order to reach the front page of MAL, let alone the top 5. |
| Another reason it won't hit the top five is that, despite that the show could have a huge boost at the end, the rating has actually been slowly slipping for weeks. It has gone from like 8.32 to 8.28, instead of going up as the show goes on. |
GarLogan78 said: Another reason it won't hit the top five is that, despite that the show could have a huge boost at the end, the rating has actually been slowly slipping for weeks. It has gone from like 8.32 to 8.28, instead of going up as the show goes on. I personally think it's because people are lowering their scores because they're confused. When the secret's revealed, given that a majority of anime viewers are able link with the other events that occurred and its implications, I'm pretty sure the score will get a significant boost. |
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MCAL said: Judging by some reactions of anime only viewers I would have to agree that two cours would have been bad. They just want to know the secret already and making the series longer definitely wouldn't help that. I think this pacing is fine. Hell, some of them felt the latest episodes pacing was too slow. So for the record having two two cour season could be seen as a bad idea too. EDIT: And would people just shut up about Kyo-Ani. They first seem to forget that Kyo-Ani didn't want to adapt LB in the first place. And their latest work on Kyoukai no Kanata seems to prove they should stay away from adapting material for awhile. madhouse then :3 |
| |
| The anime only viewers don't have shit to say in the matter, and I disagree with MCAL. People think the story is progressing at a FAST pace, and that events aren't extensively developed. People actually WANT to care for characters and story, but parts like Kurugaya's arc were rushed beyond belief, and had more time spent on comedy than Kurugaya. People also feel like not a lot is happening sometimes, and it's because there are excessive monologues remaining in the show while story aspects were cut from the script. But honestly, if it was 2 cours, it wouldn't matter because JC Staff destroys everything they touch. Anticlimactic and poorly directed lead-in to Refrain, the main story arc, they've killed the adaptation of meaningful CGs, screwed up OST placement in nearly episode, cut out important and emotionally engaging narrative aspects of each story arc (Hug with Komari at the end of her arc, Going out with Mio/visiting her house, Visiting Haruka's house and the phone calls, studying with Kud/Masato and phone calls from her as she visits Tebua to build tension, and Kud's monologue in the cave, diary opening with Kurugaya to show how she was suffering through the memory loss and trying to remember things throughout each time loop.) Kurugaya's route needed another episode. More common route needed to be adapted, and PROPERLY, so that people can actually feel attached to some of these characters by Refrain. Refrain needs at LEAST 3 more episodes, one for the intro to Refrain so that the setup isn't horrible rushed, and one for Masato's arc, and one for Kengo's arc. Rin's arc needed at least 2 episodes, because there's little time in between Rin becoming Riki's girlfriend and her being sent off to the sister school, and little time again between that part and her coming back, and they completely cut out parts that showed Riki actually manning up and trying to provide for Rin in the house. There were also baseball practices with Kyousuke, who replaced Rin as the pitcher and built up tension and motivation for Riki to oppose him in the baseball game and later run away, and there were important dialogue segments with Kengo as well. For the runaway part, the level of intimacy and believability of that arc gave me attachment to Riki and Rin's character, and was reminiscent to Tomoya providing for Nagisa in After Story. Sometimes a story needs to slow down and realize that character attachment and believability, and showing different aspects of the story, like characters interacting and caring for one another, can be effective buildup for the narrative. Up until that point, I felt like Riki was just going through the motions and barely had a mind of his own, and was just fulfilling whatever basic plot necessities the writer felt he needed to do to help each girl. So 5 episodes of common route, 4 eps for Kurugaya, 5 eps for Rin, and 10 episodes for Refrain would be 24 episodes. If it was actually properly directed like it should be, the pacing wouldn't have felt awful, there would be just as much obtainable substance from each episode, the character development would be better and the motives would be more clear, the characters wouldn't feel utterly bipolar. An example is Kyousuke's antagonistic "Called game." line coming in one episode, and 12 minutes later being "emo" in his room, as people think. People would actually have a clue that the time loop started in Refrain if they showed the pact with Riki to become stronger, rather than showing it as a flashback. They couldn't even execute some blatant storytelling to give people a better idea of what's going on, but they can toss hundreds of hints on the Secret in your face in the first 31 episodes. So, if you think slowing down the pacing to make the story more realistic and smoother paced, and actually heighten the intensity of events like Kurugaya's time loop and memory issue, Rin being at the sister school, the runaway with Riki and Rin, and Masato and Kengo's distress during their arcs which are going to be reduced to half an episode of their perspective, then I sternly disagree. I've argued this anime to death from both sides, thinking JC Staff was going to improve, but now seeing that there's so much fundamentally wrong with how the show is being handled, and it's an irredeemable shell of the visual novel. I can go to any episode and point out gratuitous errors in the script, screenplay, and music directing that I could've fixed myself if I was on the directing team as a Quality Check assistant. I'm not even including animation issues, but basic planning and execution aspects of the story that were clumsily juggled by JC Staff instead of handled with any fucks given. Well, if there were any further doubts about this, how about some examples? The screenplay/directors are just bad, and a lot of scenes look awkward as fuck overall. There's this retarded directing style that isn't even that effective- http://puu.sh/5kIHy.jpg http://puu.sh/5kIJ6.jpg http://puu.sh/5kIKc.jpg http://puu.sh/5kIMd.jpg http://puu.sh/5kIRU.jpg Then you have QUALITY and awkward camera angles all over the place. http://puu.sh/5mLNz.jpg http://puu.sh/5mLP6.jpg Like, why does the camera pan towards Riki here? http://puu.sh/5mLPF.jpg -> http://puu.sh/5mMD9.jpg They should've locked the view onto Kengo, and then switched it over to Riki as he finished speaking. http://puu.sh/5mMsb.jpg I mean, Riki looks like he just accidentally walked in on two people having sex. And the animation for him walking out of the room is also awkward. http://puu.sh/5mMuZ.jpg http://puu.sh/5mMve.jpg And that's all I have for now. |
Vladz0rNov 18, 2013 10:58 PM
Vladz0r said: ohmygerd so many paragraphs..... i agree that the awkward camera angles and directing is a bit messed up but if we compare it to S1, its a whole lot better. I noticed that the quality also sucks as hell when they zoom out to show the whole scene such as here: http://puu.sh/5mLNz.jpg like look at riki and rin.. QUALITY QUALITY totally QUALITYThe anime only viewers don't have shit to say in the matter, and I disagree with MCAL. People think the story is progressing at a FAST pace, and that events aren't extensively developed. People actually WANT to care for characters and story, but parts like Kurugaya's arc were rushed beyond belief, and had more time spent on comedy than Kurugaya. People also feel like not a lot is happening sometimes, and it's because there are excessive monologues remaining in the show while story aspects were cut from the script. But honestly, if it was 2 cours, it wouldn't matter because JC Staff destroys everything they touch. Anticlimactic and poorly directed lead-in to Refrain, the main story arc, they've killed the adaptation of meaningful CGs, screwed up OST placement in nearly episode, cut out important and emotionally engaging narrative aspects of each story arc (Hug with Komari at the end of her arc, Going out with Mio/visiting her house, Visiting Haruka's house and the phone calls, studying with Kud/Masato and phone calls from her as she visits Tebua to build tension, and Kud's monologue in the cave, diary opening with Kurugaya to show how she was suffering through the memory loss and trying to remember things throughout each time loop.) Kurugaya's route needed another episode. More common route needed to be adapted, and PROPERLY, so that people can actually feel attached to some of these characters by Refrain. Refrain needs at LEAST 3 more episodes, one for the intro to Refrain so that the setup isn't horrible rushed, and one for Masato's arc, and one for Kengo's arc. Rin's arc needed at least 2 episodes, because there's little time in between Rin becoming Riki's girlfriend and her being sent off to the sister school, and little time again between that part and her coming back, and they completely cut out parts that showed Riki actually manning up and trying to provide for Rin in the house. There were also baseball practices with Kyousuke, who replaced Rin as the pitcher and built up tension and motivation for Riki to oppose him in the baseball game and later run away, and there were important dialogue segments with Kengo as well. For the runaway part, the level of intimacy and believability of that arc gave me attachment to Riki and Rin's character, and was reminiscent to Tomoya providing for Nagisa in After Story. Sometimes a story needs to slow down and realize that character attachment and believability, and showing different aspects of the story, like characters interacting and caring for one another, can be effective buildup for the narrative. Up until that point, I felt like Riki was just going through the motions and barely had a mind of his own, and was just fulfilling whatever basic plot necessities the writer felt he needed to do to help each girl. So 5 episodes of common route, 4 eps for Kurugaya, 5 eps for Rin, and 10 episodes for Refrain would be 24 episodes. If it was actually properly directed like it should be, the pacing wouldn't have felt awful, there would be just as much obtainable substance from each episode, the character development would be better and the motives would be more clear, the characters wouldn't feel utterly bipolar. An example is Kyousuke's antagonistic "Called game." line coming in one episode, and 12 minutes later being "emo" in his room, as people think. People would actually have a clue that the time loop started in Refrain if they showed the pact with Riki to become stronger, rather than showing it as a flashback. They couldn't even execute some blatant storytelling to give people a better idea of what's going on, but they can toss hundreds of hints on the Secret in your face in the first 31 episodes. So, if you think slowing down the pacing to make the story more realistic and smoother paced, and actually heighten the intensity of events like Kurugaya's time loop and memory issue, Rin being at the sister school, the runaway with Riki and Rin, and Masato and Kengo's distress during their arcs which are going to be reduced to half an episode of their perspective, then I sternly disagree. I've argued this anime to death from both sides, thinking JC Staff was going to improve, but now seeing that there's so much fundamentally wrong with how the show is being handled, and it's an irredeemable shell of the visual novel. I can go to any episode and point out gratuitous errors in the script, screenplay, and music directing that I could've fixed myself if I was on the directing team as a Quality Check assistant. I'm not even including animation issues, but basic planning and execution aspects of the story that were clumsily juggled by JC Staff instead of handled with any fucks given. Well, if there were any further doubts about this, how about some examples? The screenplay/directors are just bad, and a lot of scenes look awkward as fuck overall. There's this retarded directing style that isn't even that effective- http://puu.sh/5kIHy.jpg http://puu.sh/5kIJ6.jpg http://puu.sh/5kIKc.jpg http://puu.sh/5kIMd.jpg http://puu.sh/5kIRU.jpg Then you have QUALITY and awkward camera angles all over the place. http://puu.sh/5mLNz.jpg http://puu.sh/5mLP6.jpg Like, why does the camera pan towards Riki here? http://puu.sh/5mLPF.jpg -> http://puu.sh/5mMD9.jpg They should've locked the view onto Kengo, and then switched it over to Riki as he finished speaking. http://puu.sh/5mMsb.jpg I mean, Riki looks like he just accidentally walked in on two people having sex. And the animation for him walking out of the room is also awkward. http://puu.sh/5mMuZ.jpg http://puu.sh/5mMve.jpg And that's all I have for now. |
| I'm very easy to please, but I have to agree I don't think it'll ever go even top 50. |
"Now's the time for you to run towards the day you awaken from this dream." ~Boys be Smile |
| Out of curiousity since I wasn't into anime at the time; what kind of rating did After Story had while it was airing? Before the climax I mean. |
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| The reason people want to know the secret is because they have to wait weekly and can't just read the story at their own pace like the visual novel if you ask me. This is what we call teasing though, it keeps people hooked on material. Kyo-ani has kind of turned into a fan-service based, low-grade anime studio at this point. I really doubt anything would change with their adaption. Also Clannads rating was around the same as the original clannad (though that rating was lower than it is now before after story). So low 8ish territory. I don't think the ratings really raised until episode 16. |
hyperknees91 said: I hope you're not saying that fan-service automatically equates to being a 'low-grade' studio.Kyo-ani has kind of turned into a fan-service based, low-grade anime studio at this point. I really doubt anything would change with their adaption. |
Ckan said: hyperknees91 said: I hope you're not saying that fan-service automatically equates to being a 'low-grade' studio.Kyo-ani has kind of turned into a fan-service based, low-grade anime studio at this point. I really doubt anything would change with their adaption. I'm saying that's all they care about pleasing these days, they really don't reach for the stars. I would be a huge hypocrite if I said fanservice = low-grade because I love kill-la-kill hah. |
| As someone has said before... KyoAni does masterful adaptations of garbage LNs, instead of doing masterful adaptations of good source material. There are still some quality directors around, and if they stuck to the LB source material, they could've made the best out of the comedy instead of killing it as badly as JC Staff has, and they can obviously direct drama to some extent. My recent example would be Chuunibyou. I'm not saying that the actual story that was presented towards the end was especially good, but the way it was DIRECTED is better than most of what JC Staff has done with the series. You change the source material of Little Busters and apply KyoAni's techniques to it, you'll easily get a superior product to what JC Staff has hastily thrown together. |
hyperknees91 said: All's well then. While many may dislike the nature/direction of shows Kyo-Ani's been making of late, they're hardly an incompetent studio.Ckan said: hyperknees91 said: I hope you're not saying that fan-service automatically equates to being a 'low-grade' studio.Kyo-ani has kind of turned into a fan-service based, low-grade anime studio at this point. I really doubt anything would change with their adaption. I'm saying that's all they care about pleasing these days, they really don't reach for the stars. I would be a huge hypocrite if I said fanservice = low-grade because I love kill-la-kill hah. On topic: Little Busters? Really? Good source material means nothing in the face of a mediocre/poor/uninspired adaptation. Sasuga Drama. Vladz0r said: ^precisely.You change the source material of Little Busters and apply KyoAni's techniques to it, you'll easily get a superior product to what JC Staff has hastily thrown together. |
CkanNov 20, 2013 1:16 AM
Vladz0r said: As someone has said before... KyoAni does masterful adaptations of garbage LNs, instead of doing masterful adaptations of good source material. There are still some quality directors around, and if they stuck to the LB source material, they could've made the best out of the comedy instead of killing it as badly as JC Staff has, and they can obviously direct drama to some extent. My recent example would be Chuunibyou. I'm not saying that the actual story that was presented towards the end was especially good, but the way it was DIRECTED is better than most of what JC Staff has done with the series. You change the source material of Little Busters and apply KyoAni's techniques to it, you'll easily get a superior product to what JC Staff has hastily thrown together. After watching the making of Kanon (2006), one thing for certain is that Kyoani would have animated the CGs a lot more faithfully (This is seriously important for upcoming episodes). " We always use the pictures whenever the chance arises". Since JC staff doesn't animate the CGs (Lord knows why) it's inevitable that they will be getting flakes from it. I'm not blaming the whole studio for some underwhelming episodes, but the people who were put in charge, Director, SOUND DIRECTOR, Sponsors etc. Also having different episode directors throughout the whole season 1 made it pretty inconsistent overall. We get awesome episodes such as Mio's route, sleepover and then suddenly the first episode of Haruka's route. I've already accepted the fact that the anime will not do Refrain justice after they announced that Refrain is going to be one cour. It can turn out decent if they give it their all in the remaining episodes. It would've been pretty amazing if it was Rin+ Refrain into 13 episodes, but there was also Kurugaya's story to tell thus cutting Refrain down to 7 eps. Despite that I'll still enjoy Refrain and see what they can come up with in 6 episodes while keeping my VN expectations down. |
| Meh, I'm just glad I have Space Dandy and JoJo part 3 to look forward to in the upcoming seasons. At least those have a good chance of being great. (read:amazing) |
Reckoner said: Yeah, sorry. FPS != good direction. Kyoani is actually pretty average (if not sometimes downright poor like this seasons KnK) on that front. There are numerous issues with their adaption of Clannad, worst of all being the complete botching of the ending (They made it far worse than it should've been). Kanon 2006 is actually a better adaption than clannad IMO. Actually using music that fit the mood that the script and story are intended to convey, and having scenes feel continuous rather than disjointed also account for "good directing". KyoAni can do that on top of drawing and displaying characters from angles that don't look utterly retarded at times, and using effects that actually make sense. http://i.imgur.com/W6LGo8q.jpg http://i.imgur.com/w3Kb8Gn.jpg Reckoner said: . At this point, I think the anime is already superior to the visual novel in almost every regard. I wish some more stuff wasn't cut and made it into the anime, but for the most part the visual novel was extremely bloated to begin with. You're delusional. I can count on one hand the number of things that were better executed than the visual novel. I could spend HOURS coming up with lists of things that are poorly executed in every episode that were better done in the VN. Just refer to my post on the previous page to see what the series is lacking. Do you ACTUALLY think that Clannad is a worse adaptation than Little Busters just because of the ending? I agree that Kanon is a better adaptation, though. Are you actually trying to say that JC Staff is doing a better job because they MIGHT not screw up the ending as hard as Clannad did? So I guess it's okay to forgive all the blatant mistakes that they've made due to rushed decision making to try and cash out on Little Busters. If the anime was truly superior to the VN, then why the hell aren't people enjoying as much or or understanding it as well as VN players did? Why are there so many complaints of rushed pacing and rushed/forced drama in EVERY route? Why are people complaining about issues in the anime that the VN didn't even have, like rushed development and plot progression in Rin's route, and the lack of fleshing out events? I really fail to see how JC has done anything right but compile the raw elements of the story, and strip away a lot of material that makes characters worth giving two fucks about in every episode. I feel a sinking feeling in my stomach when I recommend this show to people, and not a single person I know can even get through it, despite them having enjoyed Clannad. As someone who actually loved the visual novel for the experience that it offered, I feel betrayed by Key and Jun Maeda for failing to at least supervise this anime adaptation better. It's obvious that Maeda didn't care much for the show when he didn't supervise the script for the anime and left it up to Tonokawa to help the failure of a series composer we have. They couldn't even keep Riki's promise with Kyousuke, the driving force for Refrain, intact in the adaptation. I'm glad you're enjoying it, but when they fuck up Masato and Kengo's arcs in the next two weeks and people are calling it melodrama due to its piss poor direction and pacing, and the score per episode is worse than Kurugaya's arc, just remember who told you so. It seems like everyone is willing to forgive JC Staff's blunders because they think the Secret of the World is powerful enough to redeem this series. Do you actually think people will care for the characters when the Secret is unveiled as much as VN readers did? Only if the audience is swayed in the same nature as Angel Beats where people are easily swayed by the quick drama. I'm included in that, but I'd rather have characters feel natural and developed, rather than get 10 minute revelations for Masato and Kengo to prove that they're more than just the cliche characters that they are in the common route. Well, let's see if the bro episodes are actually decent and if they decide not to use their worst fucking director and sound director for the Secret of the World unveiling. We might at least get a MAL score recovery of the impact of the destination is strong, even if the journey is a WW2 minefield. And I said I could count on one hand the things that were done better than the VN, so here you go: -Kurugaya's loli Kurugaya/route ending (story itself was rushed, and ruined my favorite girl) -Haruka's route ending (story was rushed to shit, Haruka is now bipolar, but at least Futaki wasn't ruined) -Kengo joining the team was epic rather than a running gag- fits more with his character in Refrain. -Komari's relationship with Rin is more intimately shown. |
Vladz0rNov 20, 2013 3:04 AM
| Okay, I´ve been sitting on the sidelines for quite a while, so its time I finally share my opinion with you guys. First of all, I think this adaptation is bad. I will try to explain why: -The heroines routes were unfaithful to the source material: while its true Komari and Mio´s route were pretty similar to their VN counterparts, I would prefer to see romance in them. This would of course require the omnibus format, which I think would have worked out so much better than what they have been doing until now. But Haruka and Kud´s routes were so different and worse in the anime that i have no way to describe them. They even went as far to remove Kud´s monologue which was the core of her route. Well, not compeltely remove it, but they still nerfed it. Haruka´s route seemed like a compeltely different story, they kept the core part there, but there were so many unwelcomed changes... -The animation is an obvious one. Little Busters S1 had one of the worst 2012 animations that I saw, it really didn´t fit with the anime, there were so many useless closeups, and it just didnt feel right. In this regard, it would have been much better handled by KyoAni, though the lack of animation´s has to do with the low budget, so I´ll refrain from mentioning it too much. The point is, JC didn´t really try to make LB´s adaptation good, if they really did, we wouldn´t have to see that excuse for an anime that was LB S1... -They wasted too much time with Rin´s route buildup, only to destroy it afterwards. They spent entire episodes with the mission letters that Kyousuke sent, and I thought it was fine, because I expected Rin´s route to be outstanding. I really did. But then, JC made something unforgivable IMO: They destroyed the core of Rin´s route. The part where Riki and Rin live together is one of my favorite parts of the VN, and they just... nerfed it to a 3 minute anime... why did they do that? It doesnt make any sense. -It felt weak emotionally compared to the VN, though this is my personal opinion, not an objective one, and I can´t complain about this one too much since the saddest part is yet to come, but I don´t think it will be good anyway. It lacks character buildup, which the VN had plenty of. If there isn´t any character attachment at all, I won´t feel sad, no matter what ends up happening. Thats why I kinda feel sorry for the anime-only audience watching this horrible adaptation. -Lack of episodes (bad pacing): When I heard Refrain was announced, me (and I think 99% other people) thought that it would end up having 20+ episodes (2-cour). But instead, we get a rushed production with 13 episodes. Afterstory got 22 episodes, and considering each second season had 2 routes + true route, Refrain only getting 7 episodes is a really bad choice. In terms of length, AS and Refrain are pretty similar, and AS got 12 episodes, while Refrain got 7 (about half)... I thought the bad pacing of S1 was bad enough, but thisone just destroys my brain cells... why 13 episodes??? Refrain could easily fit 13 episodes if they didnt rush everything. Rin´s route would be able to fit alot more episodes aswell. -Incosistencies with the story: The VN used the omnibus format, hence making it so that Riki ended up with each girl in a different world. However, the anime decided to make Riki´s story with the first 5 girls in the same timeline. I don´t even know why they did that... plus, Kurugaya´s route was good in terms of animation, but did they have to make it so that Rin was jealous of their relationship? It was Kurugaya´s route, not Rin´s route. Rin was never jealous of their relationship in the VN. Plus, where is the promise Riki made to Kyousuke after Rin2 ended? I havent seen it yet in the anime. I have countless more arguments, but I really dont feel like writing them all down. For now, this is it. The sound directing isn´t bad? If you play the VN, you will notice that music placement is much better there than in the anime. Now, about the whole "KyoAni vs JC Staff" thing, the thing is KyoAni would´ve made the comedy awesome, and it would still be better at those emotional moments in each heroine route. True, they might destroy the anime with the whole "Over-moe" thing, but I think it would have been a much better adaptation overall. Plus, KyoAni would have access to a much bigger budget, and the people there have more experience, since they have adapted previous key VNs, like Air, Kanon and Clannad. They knew what they were doing. I´ll never get over this fact, KyoAni would have made LB much better than what JC is doing. You people say that KyoAni is mediocre, well it is because the only source materials they adapt nowadays are shit, but if given the correct material, I think they would do an awesome job. I´m not a fanatic LB fan, nor do I think its the best VN ever made, but I seriously think the anime could´ve been much better than this. This isn´t to say the anime doesn´t have some (few) strong points, but they are all hindered due to lack of good writing and idiotic scenes. Besides, why use the argument "The VN made it feel like the heroines routes were useless to the main story"? Any VN is like this. The heroine routes are supposed to be enjoyed seperately from the true route. They serve mainly the purpose of character development and enjoyment. Besides, they do serve the purpose of making Riki stronger, by making him help all the girls with their individual problems. So your argument is dead. This is all I have to say. Im not personally targetting anyone, nor am I saying I am right, this is just MY OPINION. You guys have yours, I have mine. And in MY OPINION; this adaptation is horrible. |
masterfxx1 said: Okay, I´ve been sitting on the sidelines for quite a while, so its time I finally share my opinion with you guys. First of all, I think this adaptation is bad. I will try to explain why: -The heroines routes were unfaithful to the source material: while its true Komari and Mio´s route were pretty similar to their VN counterparts, I would prefer to see romance in them. This would of course require the omnibus format, which I think would have worked out so much better than what they have been doing until now. But Haruka and Kud´s routes were so different and worse in the anime that i have no way to describe them. They even went as far to remove Kud´s monologue which was the core of her route. Well, not compeltely remove it, but they still nerfed it. Haruka´s route seemed like a compeltely different story, they kept the core part there, but there were so many unwelcomed changes... -The animation is an obvious one. Little Busters S1 had one of the worst 2012 animations that I saw, it really didn´t fit with the anime, there were so many useless closeups, and it just didnt feel right. In this regard, it would have been much better handled by KyoAni, though the lack of animation´s has to do with the low budget, so I´ll refrain from mentioning it too much. The point is, JC didn´t really try to make LB´s adaptation good, if they really did, we wouldn´t have to see that excuse for an anime that was LB S1... -They wasted too much time with Rin´s route buildup, only to destroy it afterwards. They spent entire episodes with the mission letters that Kyousuke sent, and I thought it was fine, because I expected Rin´s route to be outstanding. I really did. But then, JC made something unforgivable IMO: They destroyed the core of Rin´s route. The part where Riki and Rin live together is one of my favorite parts of the VN, and they just... nerfed it to a 3 minute anime... why did they do that? It doesnt make any sense. -It felt weak emotionally compared to the VN, though this is my personal opinion, not an objective one, and I can´t complain about this one too much since the saddest part is yet to come, but I don´t think it will be good anyway. It lacks character buildup, which the VN had plenty of. If there isn´t any character attachment at all, I won´t feel sad, no matter what ends up happening. Thats why I kinda feel sorry for the anime-only audience watching this horrible adaptation. -Lack of episodes (bad pacing): When I heard Refrain was announced, me (and I think 99% other people) thought that it would end up having 20+ episodes (2-cour). But instead, we get a rushed production with 13 episodes. Afterstory got 22 episodes, and considering each second season had 2 routes + true route, Refrain only getting 7 episodes is a really bad choice. In terms of length, AS and Refrain are pretty similar, and AS got 12 episodes, while Refrain got 7 (about half)... I thought the bad pacing of S1 was bad enough, but thisone just destroys my brain cells... why 13 episodes??? Refrain could easily fit 13 episodes if they didnt rush everything. Rin´s route would be able to fit alot more episodes aswell. -Incosistencies with the story: The VN used the omnibus format, hence making it so that Riki ended up with each girl in a different world. However, the anime decided to make Riki´s story with the first 5 girls in the same timeline. I don´t even know why they did that... plus, Kurugaya´s route was good in terms of animation, but did they have to make it so that Rin was jealous of their relationship? It was Kurugaya´s route, not Rin´s route. Rin was never jealous of their relationship in the VN. Plus, where is the promise Riki made to Kyousuke after Rin2 ended? I havent seen it yet in the anime. I have countless more arguments, but I really dont feel like writing them all down. For now, this is it. The sound directing isn´t bad? If you play the VN, you will notice that music placement is much better there than in the anime. Now, about the whole "KyoAni vs JC Staff" thing, the thing is KyoAni would´ve made the comedy awesome, and it would still be better at those emotional moments in each heroine route. True, they might destroy the anime with the whole "Over-moe" thing, but I think it would have been a much better adaptation overall. Plus, KyoAni would have access to a much bigger budget, and the people there have more experience, since they have adapted previous key VNs, like Air, Kanon and Clannad. They knew what they were doing. I´ll never get over this fact, KyoAni would have made LB much better than what JC is doing. You people say that KyoAni is mediocre, well it is because the only source materials they adapt nowadays are shit, but if given the correct material, I think they would do an awesome job. I´m not a fanatic LB fan, nor do I think its the best VN ever made, but I seriously think the anime could´ve been much better than this. This isn´t to say the anime doesn´t have some (few) strong points, but they are all hindered due to lack of good writing and idiotic scenes. Besides, why use the argument "The VN made it feel like the heroines routes were useless to the main story"? Any VN is like this. The heroine routes are supposed to be enjoyed seperately from the true route. They serve mainly the purpose of character development and enjoyment. Besides, they do serve the purpose of making Riki stronger, by making him help all the girls with their individual problems. So your argument is dead. This is all I have to say. Im not personally targetting anyone, nor am I saying I am right, this is just MY OPINION. You guys have yours, I have mine. And in MY OPINION; this adaptation is horrible. Well, KyoAni would've done LB the way J.C. were doing it in terms of removing romance for the other girls. They did that in Kanon and Clannad because omnibus sucks in anime. They also would've fucked up the secret of the world because they don't understand Key magic at all. Look at the train-wreck of an ending Clannad got in the anime. Also, the problem with Refrain being two cour is the anticipation around the secret of the world. People are already complaining that they're taking way too long to reveal it and that they're beginning to lose interest in it. If the show was 2-cour, everyone would just give up on the secret of the world, which is the meat of the anime and Refrain. Spending 13 episodes just for Refrain would've annoyed the anime-viewers because they just would've been saying 'Get on with it!' like they currently are. |
| I dont really care too much about the romance part, and omnibus CAN work on anime, I thought it was brilliant on Higurashi, but again, personal opinion. Key magic isnt the issue here, its the way said "Key magic" is displayed. Clannad´s ending wasn´t a trainwreck, there were over 1000 hints about the wish since the start of the anime. So KyoAni actually did an amazing job there. Sure, I can agree with you on the part where you say "Fans are complaining about the secret taking too long". Its true, but I feel like more episodes could be used to deal with character attachment necessary for Refrain emotions. |
| I'll say that I agree with JC Staff STRUCTURING the main story, the friendship between the Little Busters, the continuity of the story rather than disappearances and segmented routes, etc. Clannad doing like 5-7 episodes for Fuko and Kotomi respectively, milking the drama for what it was worth in the main series keeps the show unbalanced. Anyone could've wrote a script to keep all the VN characters around at once, and thrown a ton of Secret foreshadowing in the anime. It sucks that people care more about the Secret than the character motives involving it, though. The Secret overshadows the characters, but I hope the revelation arcs in Refrain can bring a turnaround for the audience's focus. And by "directing", I'm referring to how the individual episodes are directed for content and story they're trying to convey each episode. I'm not referring to the the story structure and direction as a whole. I'd agree that JC Staff at least keeps the content more cohesive. If you ask people what the theme of Little Busters and Clannad are (assuming they will have watched both), you'll probably have more people understanding what Little Busters was about than Clannad. Actually providing the best content is more or less weak as I stated before. Missing phone calls from Kud for dramatic suspense, awkward gawking with the other LB members as Haruka/Kanata make up, Kurugaya no diary (when it was sitting on her piano in the anime...), etc. They met halfway when it came to the buildup and emotional attachment, even if they solidified the stories with decent endings. I already said that Kurugaya's ending was much better, but that it needed a few changes, and lacked buildup for more people to actually feel for her character. The diary part could've been soulcrushing, but they removed it. Sound direction is awful at times. Not everyone notices it, but they just use the wrong songs at the wrong times. They even changed Parting of the Boys for CHEAP TRICKS, but maybe they'll use it for Kengo's perspective. Rin's character was better done. I mentioned her relationship with Komari, but her character feels more genuine at times. Her voice acting is much better due to the practice from the Little Busters Radio broadcasts, and Midorikawa Hikaru (Kyousuke) is doing a better job as well, and I think that contributes a lot to the characters. >If extra frames of animation are what stand between people enjoying this story and disliking it, maybe it wasn't so good to begin with? People are coming to me and telling me that they don't feel for Kurugaya because there was little buildup and attachment in her route, or that Riki and Rin getting together and the tension over the sister school incident was rushed (there is literally no fucking tension in the anime), or that the runaway was rushed. The anime clearly has unneeded issues for main parts of the story as well as all the other issues it has. There are people who don't CARE about the animation, and actually come for the story and don't even get the substancial buildup that it's supposed to have. You can't just strip away parts of a story that make it and its characters believable and expect it to turn out the same. It doesn't help when they removed the driving for of Refrain, the pact between Kyousuke and Riki, and changed it to a flashback. If Kyousuke references the flashback in his arc, it COULD make up for it, but the reason for the time loop back to May 13th feels essentially lost to me as to "what" initiated it. and @Seano299 They're using the Secret as a crutch to get people interested, and don't highlight and build up the believable character motives throughout the story. The anticipation of the Secret of the World even being an issue with the audience is because of how JC Staff dumped 200 hints into the anime in order to drive it, when the VN has you speculating on what the characters are actually DOING, rather than waiting for when the characters are going to tell the Secret. During Rin's arc, people should be focusing on Riki and Rin's development, Kyousuke's growing antagonism, Masato and Kengo's sides against Kyousuke's plan. They shouldn't be overwhelmed with anticipation for the Secret of the World at this point. In Refrain, people should be trying to figure out what Masato, Kengo, and Kyousuke are up to, and what's going on with Rin. They should have the Secret of the World in the back of their heads, not saying "Get on with it!" every episode, begging to know it. I guess the Secret could have a hugely powerful and ironic impact if done right, seeing how so many people are focusing on it. Alright, well, fun discussions anyway. Hopefully the series doesn't falter in its execution when it comes to the real "meat" of the story, because episode 8 was pretty underwhelming, even as a setup episode. |
masterfxx1 said: I dont really care too much about the romance part, and omnibus CAN work on anime, I thought it was brilliant on Higurashi, but again, personal opinion. Key magic isnt the issue here, its the way said "Key magic" is displayed. Clannad´s ending wasn´t a trainwreck, there were over 1000 hints about the wish since the start of the anime. So KyoAni actually did an amazing job there. Sure, I can agree with you on the part where you say "Fans are complaining about the secret taking too long". Its true, but I feel like more episodes could be used to deal with character attachment necessary for Refrain emotions. Omnibus's is not really a great format, even in Higurashi. I swear most people would just be completely lost if they didn't look up crap beforehand in Higurashi. I mean it's kind of a mood killer to see characters you were shocked to see dead, then suddenly alive again the next episode with absolutely no explanation. I love Higurashi, but I just think the story worked better as a visual novel then an anime (in terms of format, I like the anime more though). In Yosuga no Sora it was ok though, because it was done in a way that made more sense. Clannads ending was a trainwreck. There were hints on the other world, but not on what the other world could actually do. Plus they never really explained anything that the visual novel explained. Most importantly it made all the drama and character development seem trivial. It was awful, probably the worst ending in anime history next to Mai hime (for a decent anime that is). |
hyperknees91Nov 20, 2013 3:30 PM
| I can see how overall the story is tied together more tightly with the continuous format. My issue is how they've treated Rin's route, cheap tricks, the runaway, etc, and the start of Refrain isn't feeling quite so good. I'll be more enraged than Masato next episode if they don't make Refrain, the part that ties the story together, amazing and worthwhile. |
| From the episode summaries provided to me it looks like they're going to do Masato's little arc and Episode: Masato all in episode eight. Is anyone else worried that they are going to screw this up and make it a lot less emotional than in the visual novel? After season one ended I linked to a translated interview where the voice actors themselves said they felt the visual novel was better at the emotional parts than the damn show (which is scary when you realize that a non-animated version of something is better than the animated one), and I'm just really scared that Masato's backstory where he meets Kyousuke and Rin is going to be poorly done. It's my favorite part of the visual novel and the most important part to me, so I really want them to do this right but I just can't help but think I'm going to be very disappointed with how they do this. Which brings me to the scene where Masato asks Riki if he enjoyed sharing hte room with him (you know, that scene where people start crying) and that I feel it will be screwed up. Basically, is anyone else scared that they are going to completely fuck this up and make all of this waiting be for nothing? |
KeyIsLove said: After season one ended I linked to a translated interview where the voice actors themselves said they felt the visual novel was better at the emotional parts than the damn show (which is scary when you realize that a non-animated version of something is better than the animated one)... Do you still have the link to the interview? |
Vladz0r said: KeyIsLove said: After season one ended I linked to a translated interview where the voice actors themselves said they felt the visual novel was better at the emotional parts than the damn show (which is scary when you realize that a non-animated version of something is better than the animated one)... Do you still have the link to the interview? I made an entire thread on it on the first season board. Go check there. I remember someone loling over the comment ("emotions were better in the vn"). I'm pretty sure you saw it too. |
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