Defiance said: I really don't even know how to debate with you when you say something as stupid as Tr1ggers4d said: Now I really don't know how you can say this. What I am saying is the Christians should be offended by people telling them to stop using "Merry Christmas" because they are apparently offended by some mundane reason. How the hell is this "reverse discrimination?" Your argument is as strong as saying the straight population should be offended by the existence of gay marriages. Another thing you say Tr1ggers4d said: What I said was "The fact that you link using racial slurs to 'Merry Christmas' is pretty laughable as well" and I said that on the basis of you saying that they are all just words but words can be offensive(linking "merry Christmas to racical slurs) as quoted here...I never argued that Christianity is like racial slurs Tr1ggers4d said: Making it a word does not mean that it can be any less offensive than anything else....Racial slurs are also words, but they can be quite offensive because of memories or history connected to them. Also you argument flip flops between a logical and emotional stance, which is pretty confusing as well. EDIT:also I refuse to retract my statement that you call a "epic failure in logic" (makes you sound very narcissistic btw), because in America(where I'm basing it off of) I would say a good 90%+ of all people I have met getting worked up about saying "Merry Christmas" are in fact, seculars lol. I don't have a survey to make you feel better about it, but I certainly have personal experience. 1. No one is telling them to stop using "Merry Christmas" - that is their personal choice. Some choose to do so because they may want to appear more thoughtful, or are more cautious. Social pressures may exist, but they're negligible when you consider all the Christmas decorations, shows, music and etc being played right now. 2. Proof that my argument "flip flops" between logical and emotional stances please. I'm not really using much emotional appeal in my argument, am I? If so, please point it out. 3. Quite a tenous link. tr1ggers4d said: It may be inappropriate for people to be offended at the words, "Merry Christmas," but your defense that because it is a word, no one should get offended, is ludicrous. Words are not just words, they can be connected to deeper emotions and personal beliefs. You can never know exactly how one word resonates with an individual compared to another. That would mean, if you cared to actually understand before you post bullshit, that I believe that the argument "it's just a word" is invalid. It's irrelevant to the phrase in question. All my argument is addressing, is that the defense "it's just a word" is meaningless, unless you're willing to relegate racial slurs or other words tied with such pain to minor relevance. I'll stress it again: I'm addressing the defense he used, not the phrase in question. The link you're creating is tenous, at best. I was linking racial slurs to the defense in question, not the phrase in question. That defense just happened to be for the word, 'christimas.' Had the defense been by itself, I would have made a similar response. Moral of the story: reading before you post helps, a lot. 4. Do you realize your argument is self-contradictory? "I would say a good 90%+ of all people I have met getting worked up about saying "Merry Christmas" are in fact, seculars" That would mean because it's not a guaranteed 100%, your umbrella statement is already invalid. Furthermore, your usage of statistics is just some numbers you pulled out of your ass. I don't give a damn about your "personal experience" considering how easily victim that is to bias(Let's say it is unbiased and objective, I highly doubt you keep a written catalog of what types of people hate Christmas, if so, please do scan pictures of it.) |
tr1ggers4dDec 21, 2008 7:54 PM
| I'll use basics from my com class, Just try to understand what the person is implying before anyone spouts bullshit from their mouth so no misunderstanding develop or arguments. |
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| Guys... play nice. It's Hanukkah as of sundown, and Christmas is a few days away. Agree to disagree already. -_- It's the yuletide (SCREW THE YULES! I HAVE MONEY!) season. Here, let's all get properly offended! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_slur ^_^ Now that we're all properly offended by words, Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to you all. |
| ~ Mr. Panda // Twitter: @ManlyBats ~ The Anime Historian ~ Fleet Admiral, Manly Battleships® Ask Mr. Panda Thread Follow Mr. Panda's VCR of DOOM! review series here. Now on YouTube! |
Defiance said: EDIT:also I refuse to retract my statement that you call a "epic failure in logic" (makes you sound very narcissistic btw), because in America(where I'm basing it off of) I would say a good 90%+ of all people I have met getting worked up about saying "Merry Christmas" are in fact, seculars lol. I don't have a survey to make you feel better about it, but I certainly have personal experience. Oh? I've heard of quite a few cases where it's people who are apart of religions other then Christianity that get offended. At least as often as "seculars". I'm going to call bullshit on this 90% unless you -can- actually come up with a statistic. Edit: Oh, and Merry Christmas everyone :) |
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| I think that would be more of a matter of card-stacking than anything else. Given over 75% of the population professed to be Christian (as of 2000), and about 13% stated they are nonreligious/secular. The only other "significant" religious group would be Jewish (a little over 1%). Allowing for immigration, Hinduism and Islam have probably grown as well (though they only equated about .5% a piece at the time). Jewish people don't have much animosity for the holiday (in fact, more than one Jewish scholar has remaked on the irony of it being non-Jews that hate Christmas). Hindus couldn't care less. Muslims, in many cases, either ignore the "holiday season" entirely or observe the "holiday spirit" aspect, not giving particular reverence for the occasion as a holiday. So unless there is another absurd doctrine-edict from the drug-induced pen of L. Ron Hubbard for Scientologists I managed to miss, I don't think we can assert that Non-christian religious persons as a whole have a major objection to Christmas. The math doesn't add up. Then again, I don't really see any evidence giving a defenite answer either way, so what it boils down to is a difference of opinion/expierience. Given that, I don't see how either side of this debate can call the other side's argument poor. |
Mr_PandaDec 21, 2008 10:20 PM
| ~ Mr. Panda // Twitter: @ManlyBats ~ The Anime Historian ~ Fleet Admiral, Manly Battleships® Ask Mr. Panda Thread Follow Mr. Panda's VCR of DOOM! review series here. Now on YouTube! |
Mr_Panda said: Yea pretty much, I don't really see how I can argue with Triggers when he just ends up calling everything i say "bullshit" and "I don't give a damn about your 'personal experience' considering how easily victim that is to bias" as if everything I say has to be a proven 100% of the time fact or it is completely a "logical fallacy" as he or Khorven would put it lol. But hey, since I'm a white Christian male, I am probably a sexist, racist and bigot(e-sarcasm).Given that, I don't see how either side of this debate can call the other side's argument poor. |
| I enjoy Christmas, and I'm an atheist. I love to enjoy Christmas, the presents, the friends and family, the Santa, and the Christmas specials on Frosty, Rudolf, and How the Grinch stole Christmas. What i have learned is that Christmas has lost it's religious meaning a long time ago. Christmas is a commercial holiday, and you know why. So i don't mind if someone says Merry Christmas, and neither should anyone else. So, Merry Christmas everybody :D |
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| I consider it as a tradition. I enjoy it so I have no objection to it. |
| I don't give a rat's ass if someone says "Merry Christmas" or "Happy Holidays" to me, especially since I'm Agnostic. I just return what that person said with the same phrase. |
| Signature removed. Please follow the signature rules, as defined in the Site & Forum Guidelines. |
| Well, I just learned something new. I never realized that 'Merry Christmas' was politically incorrect. I personally can't find any harm in that saying, so yeah, I wouldn't care. Actually, I welcome it. |
"I've read so much manga that at times my mind works in comic panels and dramatically expressed chibis. I'm both ashamed and amused by this." |
| i like it when people do and don't see anything wrong with it :) but no one has said it to me this year >:( |
legiondairy said: i like it when people do and don't see anything wrong with it :) but no one has said it to me this year >:( Merr Christmas. ^_^ BTW CCZilla, love the ava and sig. |
| ~ Mr. Panda // Twitter: @ManlyBats ~ The Anime Historian ~ Fleet Admiral, Manly Battleships® Ask Mr. Panda Thread Follow Mr. Panda's VCR of DOOM! review series here. Now on YouTube! |
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| I'm Christian myself, so Merry Christmas. I don't see why it should be a big deal to say it since most non-Christians celebrate Christmas as well. |
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| I dunno why, but reading through this topic got me thinking about this holiday classic. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73vcbde8Cb8&feature=channel_page |
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| Isn't is suppost to be Christmas? for those who has different holidays or nothing at all, they can say what ever they want but since i have Christmas, i say Merry Christmas ^^ |
| That Is Not Dead Which Can Eternal Lie And With Strange Eons Even Death May Die |
| Heck no, It's a holliday invented by merchants to make you buy gifts, much like valabntine and new year. Most people don't even know you celebrate the birth of jesus, so what's the point in celebrating then? |
| Sometimes it seems kinda nice just for people to celebrate for the sake of having a break and enjoying each others company. Oh and nah i ain't too bothered. But in all honesty i don't get Happy Holidays where i live it's always Merry Christmas! |
 HAPPY CHRISMAHANUKWANZIKAH!!!! It's okay if you're a Muslim A Christian or a Jew Its okay if you're agnostic and you don't know what to do An all inclusive celebration No contractual obligation Happy Chrismahanukwanzakah to you ( and pagans too) In some ways were all monkeys Well maybe just a smidgeon I'm a scientologist That's kind of a religion... Whose faith is the right one It's anybody's guess What matters most is camera phones For $20 or less And there’s never any hidden fees Oh what a joyous day! no commitments means I’m proud to go both ways! Happy Chrismahanukwanzakah to you (this is gonna be the best Chrismahanukwanzakah ever!) FYI... i celebrate Chrismahanukwanzakah. |
  "What happens when we die?" I know that the ones who love us will miss us. |
| I Carez Cuz People Actually Use Their Time And Say That To Meh! Politicz Sux But Without Them The World Would Goes Crazy!! |
You Know You Want My Muffin!  I Know U Do! |
Ranivus said: That's so cute! |
 Waratte Oemashou Sore ha Chiisana Inori |
| I am told "Merry Christmas" most of the time by the customers I deal with, and I usually chirp, "You too!" cheerfully right back at them. When I deal with people I don't know, like if I'm the customer, I usually say, "Have a great holiday." I try to say "Happy Holidays" whenever I remember, just because. Not to people I know, like co-workers, friends, and family, because I usually find out what they celebrate. "Merry Christmas" slips out of my mouth more often than not and with all the political correctness going on, I'm afraid that I will wind up offending someone. I asked several friends and co-workers about being offended over that kind of thing, and I was basically told everyone should practice "Happy Holidays" as a rule, and I was also told by another person that they only get offended if someone close to them - and KNOWS that they don't celebrate Christmas - says, "Merry Christmas." I still say people should stop and realize they are wishing good will for the season, regardless of the holiday either person celebrates, before flying off of the handle. The holiday time is to celebrate the year, appreciate those close to you, the kindness and good health of others. There's no need to get offended. (That is, unless, they're being really nasty and sarcastic about it. Those people are 'bah humbugs.') |
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llxwarbirdxll said: The government is full of pagans and heathens. The government is entirely made up of Satanists and Christians. |
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| As a militant agnostic (I don't know, and neither do you), I couldn't care less. People are just trying to be friendly. In stores, I figure it's also just something to say. |
| No, I don't care, but I say mithrasday myself because it's trver to the roots. |
How is the world ruled and how do wars start? Diplomats tell lies to journalists and then believe what they read. | Report rules abuse | Your Panel | Clubs | Messages | Forum | Recent <img src="http://img593.imageshack.us/img593/4672/stuhlbarg.png" /> |
| We closed up shop a bit early due to snow, and I got to write up the sign. At the end of the sign I drew a snowman and wrote "Merry Christmas!" My boss is Hindu yet she loved my sign. She also gave me a christmas card which read" Merry Christmas" I've also said merry Christmas to people when at work (especially when they say it to me). Our store has a Christmas tree up. I am also not Christian. :D Seriously, people need to get their panties out of a bunch and just relax and enjoy the time off. |
StephanBlackhawk said: I've noticed walking around my neighborhood, there is 0 Merry Christmas signs, mostly "Happy Holidays" and "Seasons Greetings". Is the government so paranoid they might offend a few people, that they change names completely. Where I live, the public schools, are not allowed to have "Christmas Concerts", "Christmas Carols", and anything with the word Christmas in it. Would you actually be offended if someone said "Merry Christmas" and not "Happy Holidays". Even in supermarkets, a lady told me "Merry Christmas" then apologized. I pretty much hate Political Correctness. Gosh that is totally extreme. it would be a depressing world if you can not wish someone good tidings, even if it is against your own religious beliefs, the meaning and intention is good, so it doesn't matter. |
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| I wouldn't care :< |
| If they greeted me, I'd greet them back. Whether I know them or not, its just polite. :o Same with every other greeting. |
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Ranivus said: I dont care who you are... Jesus is more epic than 90% of the people that ever walked this earth. At least show the dead guy some respect. He's the reason why YOU PEOPLE are getting computers and video games and anime (in reference to presents). So basically what im tryin to say is anyone who ENJOYS giving or receiving presents this season. Should be kissing jesus' feet. ...anyways i say it at work. People will generally know your GOOD INTENTIONS when you say it. So why the FUCK WOULD YOU BE A DICK and 'correct' them. Dont be an asshole people. Just take the "seasons greetings" and be on your goddamn way. ...can you tell i deal with people/customers everyday at work? Theres nothing worse than an asshole customer being an asshole just for the sake of being an asshole. You know who you are. I agree 100% |
| Why the fuck is this alive? |
| sad |
| I work in retail and during the Christmas season you can never say Merry Christmas to a customer unless a customer says it to you first...you always have to say have a Nice Holiday! Once I made the mistake of telling a customer Merry Christmas because I am just so used to telling everyone that and she totally went off on me lol. |
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| I don't think I would care; but I don't want to turn them down so I'll simply force a "Merry Christmas" and a fake smile will do.. |
| 'Christmas' itself has gained far more than just a religious meaning. I think it's perfectly fine. |
 life is a dream ~death is reality |
| The only people who say Merry Christmas to me is the waitress in the restaurant..... my response is just a smile. Defiance said: Poor JesusThe only people getting pissed about saying "Merry Christmas" are those extremely secular people who believe Christians are evil and are the reason for all the worlds problems. |
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJZjR7xyyWE That pretty much. I say let someone say "Merry Christmas" I will say "Pleasnt Yule." and that will be that. |
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Chavez said: I call it Christmas, but I never considered it to be religious. I don't believe in god and all that, so it has no value for me anyways. I love Christmas because of the mood and all that, not because some nonexistent guy was born. This. |
| No and yes in some cases... XD |
| I know most celebrate christmas, but i don't. you have to understand when someone says merry christmas to me it's useless. i know what their intent is but I just don't feel the love you know what I mean? I like hearing 'happy holidays' I feel far more involved. Then Wen I respond I don't have to go 'oh haha sorry I don't celebrate christmas but thank you anyways and happy holidays.' it's awkward. I hate it. then the worst is when the cashier or friends complain about political correctness. I don't know how to respond and if I say anything I just look like an ass. |
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Defiance said: The only people getting pissed about saying "Merry Christmas" are those extremely secular people who believe Christians are evil and are the reason for all the worlds problems. words of pure ignorance |
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| Maybe, but i don't care. Its their own choice on saying it. |
| No, but I guess it doesn't count XD I'm not Christ XD But it's good to know that someone thought of you =] |
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| Nope, people say it to me all the time during the holidays and i say it to other people |
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| No. but it's nice people remember me. |
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| Merry christmas and happy thanksgiving day. |
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| I would not really care, but I would rather they not because I would then feel obligated to reply in the same manner. I do not like christmas, so I just dislike it when people say it to me, I am not offended by it though. People become offended for stupid reasons, it should not matter. |
 “Many of us crucify ourselves between two thieves - regret for the past and fear of the future.” ~ Fulton Oursler |
| I don't get offended when people tell me "Merry Christmas," but I prefer "Happy Holidays" or something neutral like that, because there's many faiths celebrating something around the winter solstice and I think it's ignorant of people to forget that. I myself celebrate Yule, the solar holiday Christmas was based on. |
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