Spice and Wolf (light novel)
| I really enjoyed Spice and Wolf (season 2 not as much) but honestly I feel it's not old enough to be worth getting remade. When we're talking Fruits Basket and Urusei Yatsura or even Samurai X, I get it because they're ancient. But I actually recall Spice and Wolf from when I was a boy and it wasn't that long ago... What did they change in this remake? |
 |
| I think 15+ years is old enough. |
| didn't watch the original Spice and wolf, but from what i heard the remake more source accurate. also don't see why Spice and wolf isn't old enough to be getting a remake, as another user pointed it out the original series is 15+. years old. and is age is the only reason to remake something? like take for example Tokyo Ghoul the first season came out in 2014 and it continued to have seasons for a few years. yet isn't it 'remake worthy'? |
| spiritual successor of lord rothchild. |
| it's pretty old enough and the fact that you didn't enjoy the second season not as much makes it more relevant |
| "All truth is meaningless. In the end, 'meaning' comes from the mind of each individual human. Even when there is a single truth, it can mean different things to different individuals. The truth has no meaning in itself!" - Erika Furudo |
| Personally if I had to choose (especially since both shows have basically the same pacing so far), I prefer the original. The new version is more light novel accurate besides the Holo dance there in one of the episodes, but I just liked the aesthetics and atmosphere of the old version a lot more. The new anime's characters look anemic due to how bright and overly glossy it can look for a series that would thrive more with a retro, grainy style to it and certain design choices feel pretty lame like the wolf from the previous episode. The pacing isn't an issue in both versions and the material is still Spice and Wolf, even with Chloe from the original being changed to Yarei, who was in the books. Opening is much better in the original anime too. Production isn't bad in the new version but it does visually look weaker, and Passione's production isn't quite the smoothest and easiest situation either so it makes me curious about how everything will be in the kong run. The one ultimate advantage the new adaptation will have is that it should go past where the original anime ended its adaptation on, and hopefully adapt the full thing, which is a much stronger incentive to watch in the long run. We just haven't gotten close to that point yet with the anime for me to still prefer the new anime over the older one. So this is essentially a patience thing to see how the anime does in the future to see if this long-term new adaptation is more than worth it or not. I might prefer the original but I'm still fairly liking the new anime for the time being and think it is a solid anime so I am going to try and be optimistic about the future of this franchise. |
Reply to R-e_n
The new version is indeed closer to the source material. It's a good thing for purists. It's also a way to get new fans, if they simply continued the show from where it stopped, newer spectators would have been screwed. They would have been forced to roll with some of the changes the first anime did too.
But if I'm honest, I not only prefer the older anime, but I also genuinely think it's superior in term of direction and more interesting.
To begin with I feel the LN is rather flawed. I read it because I loved the anime and... it wasn't what I expected. For instance the romantic/sexual tension between Holo and Lawrence hits differently. In the anime you had many silences and short glances/long gazes that implied a lot. In the LN you can read everything Lawrence thinks, and oh boy, you don't want to... It feels like a cheap teenage teasing romcom instead of the more mature feeling the anime had.
Hopefully this should stay the same in both anime (welp, you never know, in 10 years teasing has become a rather popular genre in itself... So they might try their hand at that type of comedy to get closer to the LN too...). But I have actual example of mediocre directing in the new anime. For instance in episode 5 of the new anime, you have a long ass discussion between Lawrence and Marhait and you'll only see their ugly mugs for half of the episode. In the older anime you had picture to illustrate what they were talking about. Do note that they're talking about something rather technical but abstract that can be hard to grasp for some people.
Another instance of odd directing in the new anime would be the use of the harp for the chase... That's... unusual. I think the new anime has far less care and charm than the old one.
I also think the old anime simply tried to fix some of the meh writing of the LN with it's reinterpretation.
Now do I think Spice and Wolf needed a remake? It's a tough one... As I said earlier a continuation would have been hard to pull. But this isn't Furuba where the anime just creates its own end and makes it hard to come back to the story. The end of S2 was a smart innuendo, nothing more. It was rather elegant.
I also think that visually the old anime holds up very well... I actually prefer its visuals and I'm not a fan of Holo's design in the new anime. She feels younger and more childish. Voice actors have aged too, and I personally perceive a gap in their performance... But to be fair someone who didn't see the first anime could be fine with it... And casting new people would have pissed a part of the fanbase.
More than anything, this new adaptation is a business decision. If I'm not a fan of it, I really loved what they did with the begining of episode 1 that teases something in a far future. I also see it as a way to promote the sequel of the show.
I'll probably end up prefering the first anime. Adaptation that make changes aren't bad, I don't necessarily want 1 for 1 adaptations. But I'm fine with them giving the opportunity to newer fans to discover something closer to the original story.
I do think that there are MANY anime that could have benefited from this more tho... Some stuff just blatantly need remakes. Spice and Wolf wasn't really one of those things. And it's perfectly fine to watch the first anime, call it a day and continue with the LN.
But if I'm honest, I not only prefer the older anime, but I also genuinely think it's superior in term of direction and more interesting.
To begin with I feel the LN is rather flawed. I read it because I loved the anime and... it wasn't what I expected. For instance the romantic/sexual tension between Holo and Lawrence hits differently. In the anime you had many silences and short glances/long gazes that implied a lot. In the LN you can read everything Lawrence thinks, and oh boy, you don't want to... It feels like a cheap teenage teasing romcom instead of the more mature feeling the anime had.
Hopefully this should stay the same in both anime (welp, you never know, in 10 years teasing has become a rather popular genre in itself... So they might try their hand at that type of comedy to get closer to the LN too...). But I have actual example of mediocre directing in the new anime. For instance in episode 5 of the new anime, you have a long ass discussion between Lawrence and Marhait and you'll only see their ugly mugs for half of the episode. In the older anime you had picture to illustrate what they were talking about. Do note that they're talking about something rather technical but abstract that can be hard to grasp for some people.
Another instance of odd directing in the new anime would be the use of the harp for the chase... That's... unusual. I think the new anime has far less care and charm than the old one.
I also think the old anime simply tried to fix some of the meh writing of the LN with it's reinterpretation.
Now do I think Spice and Wolf needed a remake? It's a tough one... As I said earlier a continuation would have been hard to pull. But this isn't Furuba where the anime just creates its own end and makes it hard to come back to the story. The end of S2 was a smart innuendo, nothing more. It was rather elegant.
I also think that visually the old anime holds up very well... I actually prefer its visuals and I'm not a fan of Holo's design in the new anime. She feels younger and more childish. Voice actors have aged too, and I personally perceive a gap in their performance... But to be fair someone who didn't see the first anime could be fine with it... And casting new people would have pissed a part of the fanbase.
More than anything, this new adaptation is a business decision. If I'm not a fan of it, I really loved what they did with the begining of episode 1 that teases something in a far future. I also see it as a way to promote the sequel of the show.
I'll probably end up prefering the first anime. Adaptation that make changes aren't bad, I don't necessarily want 1 for 1 adaptations. But I'm fine with them giving the opportunity to newer fans to discover something closer to the original story.
I do think that there are MANY anime that could have benefited from this more tho... Some stuff just blatantly need remakes. Spice and Wolf wasn't really one of those things. And it's perfectly fine to watch the first anime, call it a day and continue with the LN.
| @R-e_n I miss when Anime took liberties with the source material. Kino no Tabi and FMA (both 2003) would not be as good if they stuck to the manga closely. Of course we have cases like Excel Saga where it makes no sense but hey it's a comedy so I guess it gets a pass. |
| |
| @r-e_n you hit all the marks that all those who believe the remake is better miss on. |
Help! I need somebody. Help! Not just anybody. Help! You know I need someone. Helpppppp!  |
| Absurdly better in every way, unless you’re blinded by nostalgia. (2) |
  |
| I don't believe that people who watched the original when it was released or years ago are making objective and reliable comments. If there's any, I'd like to hear the thoughts of people who watched the original and the remake around the same time or at least, at relatively close dates. But to do that, the remake has to finish airing and that's still 4-5 months away. |
meyveMay 13, 2:07 PM
|
Reply to Isekai-Enjoyer
Absurdly better in every way, unless you’re blinded by nostalgia.
| @Isekai-Enjoyer absurdly better than anime you didnt even watch? ah, my guy, you are funny, ngl |
| Am I a good person? No. But do I try to be better every single day? Also no |
| The original had more feeling and a better opening song. This series is still very good, and is truer to the source. |
Reply to R-e_n
The new version is indeed closer to the source material. It's a good thing for purists. It's also a way to get new fans, if they simply continued the show from where it stopped, newer spectators would have been screwed. They would have been forced to roll with some of the changes the first anime did too.
But if I'm honest, I not only prefer the older anime, but I also genuinely think it's superior in term of direction and more interesting.
To begin with I feel the LN is rather flawed. I read it because I loved the anime and... it wasn't what I expected. For instance the romantic/sexual tension between Holo and Lawrence hits differently. In the anime you had many silences and short glances/long gazes that implied a lot. In the LN you can read everything Lawrence thinks, and oh boy, you don't want to... It feels like a cheap teenage teasing romcom instead of the more mature feeling the anime had.
Hopefully this should stay the same in both anime (welp, you never know, in 10 years teasing has become a rather popular genre in itself... So they might try their hand at that type of comedy to get closer to the LN too...). But I have actual example of mediocre directing in the new anime. For instance in episode 5 of the new anime, you have a long ass discussion between Lawrence and Marhait and you'll only see their ugly mugs for half of the episode. In the older anime you had picture to illustrate what they were talking about. Do note that they're talking about something rather technical but abstract that can be hard to grasp for some people.
Another instance of odd directing in the new anime would be the use of the harp for the chase... That's... unusual. I think the new anime has far less care and charm than the old one.
I also think the old anime simply tried to fix some of the meh writing of the LN with it's reinterpretation.
Now do I think Spice and Wolf needed a remake? It's a tough one... As I said earlier a continuation would have been hard to pull. But this isn't Furuba where the anime just creates its own end and makes it hard to come back to the story. The end of S2 was a smart innuendo, nothing more. It was rather elegant.
I also think that visually the old anime holds up very well... I actually prefer its visuals and I'm not a fan of Holo's design in the new anime. She feels younger and more childish. Voice actors have aged too, and I personally perceive a gap in their performance... But to be fair someone who didn't see the first anime could be fine with it... And casting new people would have pissed a part of the fanbase.
More than anything, this new adaptation is a business decision. If I'm not a fan of it, I really loved what they did with the begining of episode 1 that teases something in a far future. I also see it as a way to promote the sequel of the show.
I'll probably end up prefering the first anime. Adaptation that make changes aren't bad, I don't necessarily want 1 for 1 adaptations. But I'm fine with them giving the opportunity to newer fans to discover something closer to the original story.
I do think that there are MANY anime that could have benefited from this more tho... Some stuff just blatantly need remakes. Spice and Wolf wasn't really one of those things. And it's perfectly fine to watch the first anime, call it a day and continue with the LN.
But if I'm honest, I not only prefer the older anime, but I also genuinely think it's superior in term of direction and more interesting.
To begin with I feel the LN is rather flawed. I read it because I loved the anime and... it wasn't what I expected. For instance the romantic/sexual tension between Holo and Lawrence hits differently. In the anime you had many silences and short glances/long gazes that implied a lot. In the LN you can read everything Lawrence thinks, and oh boy, you don't want to... It feels like a cheap teenage teasing romcom instead of the more mature feeling the anime had.
Hopefully this should stay the same in both anime (welp, you never know, in 10 years teasing has become a rather popular genre in itself... So they might try their hand at that type of comedy to get closer to the LN too...). But I have actual example of mediocre directing in the new anime. For instance in episode 5 of the new anime, you have a long ass discussion between Lawrence and Marhait and you'll only see their ugly mugs for half of the episode. In the older anime you had picture to illustrate what they were talking about. Do note that they're talking about something rather technical but abstract that can be hard to grasp for some people.
Another instance of odd directing in the new anime would be the use of the harp for the chase... That's... unusual. I think the new anime has far less care and charm than the old one.
I also think the old anime simply tried to fix some of the meh writing of the LN with it's reinterpretation.
Now do I think Spice and Wolf needed a remake? It's a tough one... As I said earlier a continuation would have been hard to pull. But this isn't Furuba where the anime just creates its own end and makes it hard to come back to the story. The end of S2 was a smart innuendo, nothing more. It was rather elegant.
I also think that visually the old anime holds up very well... I actually prefer its visuals and I'm not a fan of Holo's design in the new anime. She feels younger and more childish. Voice actors have aged too, and I personally perceive a gap in their performance... But to be fair someone who didn't see the first anime could be fine with it... And casting new people would have pissed a part of the fanbase.
More than anything, this new adaptation is a business decision. If I'm not a fan of it, I really loved what they did with the begining of episode 1 that teases something in a far future. I also see it as a way to promote the sequel of the show.
I'll probably end up prefering the first anime. Adaptation that make changes aren't bad, I don't necessarily want 1 for 1 adaptations. But I'm fine with them giving the opportunity to newer fans to discover something closer to the original story.
I do think that there are MANY anime that could have benefited from this more tho... Some stuff just blatantly need remakes. Spice and Wolf wasn't really one of those things. And it's perfectly fine to watch the first anime, call it a day and continue with the LN.
| @R-e_n literally my opinion |
 “Read as little as possible of critical or aesthetic works. They are either products of a close-minded spirit, petrified and devoid of meaning in their lifeless hardening, or clever verbal games [...]. Works of art are of an infinite solitude; nothing is worse than criticism for approaching them. Only love can grasp them, keep them, be just toward them. Always give precedence to your own feeling against these analyses, these reviews, these introductions. [...] You must let every impression, every seed of feeling, ripen within you, in the dark, in the inexpressible, in the unconscious, those regions closed to understanding. Wait with humility and patience for the hour of the birth of a new clarity. Art demands of its faithful followers as much as of its creators.” — RAINER-MARIA Rilke, Letters to a Young Poet (letter dated April 23, 1903). |
Reply to anizawa89
@R-e_n I miss when Anime took liberties with the source material. Kino no Tabi and FMA (both 2003) would not be as good if they stuck to the manga closely. Of course we have cases like Excel Saga where it makes no sense but hey it's a comedy so I guess it gets a pass.
| @anizawa89 "I miss when Anime took liberties with the source material." Well, I don't. A lot... and I mean A LOT of those so-called liberties were just nothing else, just a shit hitting the fan or utterly unnecessary to the overall picture. There were a few that really needed some, but not just comedy. Normal, character-driven stories also, such as for instances, drama (e.g. Galaxy Express 999). But in most of the cases liberties were just destructive to the adaptation (e.g. Da Capo, Green Green, Devilman TV and so on). Most of the original S&W liberties just flipped the already set table (e.g. the new character at the very beginning of the story). |
| Og has better writing and vibe all around |
| The ambience of the original is better, and so is the artstyle. This makes a bunch of suspenseful and intense scenes in the first arc (which by all means is the weakest part of the material) far less impactful, it's just too flat and cute for the most part (Holo isn't intimidating in the slighest in her wolf form). On the other hand, being more faithful to the LN is definitely the better way to go. In the first adaptation, they merely changed a character's gender to make a little antagonistic love triangle tease (or so it's what it feels like anyway), which makes for a not as centered confrontation during the whole thing in the sewers. For a mix of both, we also have Holo, who while is more faithful to her personality in the books somewhat (cuter and clumsier), also loses a lot of her wit that got so well translated in the previous anime (her more mature side is also accentuated better in the LN). Basically, now we have a sillier cute Holo, when we first had a more mature and serious Holo, when in the LN it was more like both combined. I just hope the adaptation will course-correct this part, as the story progresses, because this is a pretty significant deal breaker to me. Holo, and to a smaller extent Lawrence, are basically everything this story have of most important other than the economics subplots and the cool lore centered stuff. If you flanderize her towards cute "waifu bait" too much (which is definitely worse than "flanderizing" her to be more serious and mature, since the cute aspect is not what makes her significant in any way), and you kinda lose the original appeal that she had as a protagonist. Then again, hilariously enough there are examples of the latter being for the worse: Classroom of Elite's best twist was getting to know that the protagonist was actually a ruthless calculating bastard with a masterplan, and that was not something you found out until he first started to play his cards in the LN, while in the anime they spoil the entire twist by flanderizing his smartness to the point of feeling pretentious (in a story that by all means is being a bit pretentious for the fun of it with the mind games, it's just not as much as the anime makes it to be, with all the literary quotes that make no sense whasoever and are only there to make it look intellectual). Doesn't help that they also cut a bunch of characters and applied their roles to other members in the cast, making them the only important ones and worsening the problem. Mahouka had a similar issue as well with Tatsuya in the anime, he basically goes full Gary Stu instead of being a , all that nuance goes to the trash in favor of making him look cooler). Doesn't help in the slighest that they cut a lot of explanations since it would be impossible to adapt the magitech infodumps without obliterating the already slow pacing, but which in turn made for a slog lacking in substance for the first season especially. All in all, at least the adaptation is great here, unlike the previous examples. |
 |
| The original anime improved upon the LN a lot. The new anime is closer to the LN, so it's a bit worse. |
| I never watched the original but I'm enjoying this season thus far. Holo's design is much cuter than what I saw from perusing the original. |
 |
| I didn't watch the original, but I've watched like 5 episodes of this show and it's weirdly boring. Holo is nice but she can't do much alone |
Reply to AshTheChamp
The Remake is better than the original and a remake was needed to hook as many new fans as possible
| @AshTheChamp until they don't announce the second season and we need another reremake in 2030. |
| キターーーー(・∀・)ーーー！！ |
Reply to MonkoTJ
As someone who watched the original years ago as one of my first ever anime and has read the light novels, they both have their strengths and weaknesses. These examples are all, of course, my opinion.
The original:
+ Has way better music that, and this is the important part, fit the scenes more smoothly. The new score is great, but it hasn't been cut the same way to follow the scenes smoothly. No impacts where important things happen, the music doesn't suddenly drop out when drama hits etc... all important tropes in an immersive soundtrack. As someone who does music for a living this disappointed me with the new score. Penkin is clearly amazing and the songs by themselves are great, they just weren't implemented well in the final cut to me.
+ Has a more "mature" feel. The characters are less cutesy and the overrall art design is more gloomy. With character writing as mature and nuanced as Spice & Wolf, it fit the theme very well.
+ Timeless animation. It looks great to this day! The modern use of CGI in anime is a crime to humanity lol. Then again, with working conditions being what they seem to be in Japan nowadays we should cut the animators a lot of slack.
- There's more filler. While enjoyable, it sometimes put the flow of the plot on hold.
- The length... They skipped light novel 4 and instead ended on the cliffhanger that is volume 5. A real shame it never continued!
The remake:
- The music, or at least how it's been cut into the show. As mentioned above!
- The use of CGI and overrall animation quality. The show looks great a lot of times, but other times the characters looks stiff, CGI looks wonky and the ways they hide a characters movements is sometimes so blatant that it's funny. Lawrence standing with his hand over his mouth for a solid minute, mouths being covered by cups etc...
+ The character design! I like the design of both shows, and I don't really prefer one over the other. They both look great! People complaining about Holo looking too cutesy in the new show should stay clear of the novels and the manga, where she literally looks like a child lol.
+ The animation (at times). For example, I thought Holo's transformation was way better in the remake as compared to the original. The less feral look made much more sense for her, as she's a normal (if gigantic) wolf and not some feral monster. They also did it the scene in what at least looked like 2D animation instead of CGI, which I was afraid they'd be doing. The scene put a big smile on my face!
+ The Japanese voice acting. While nostalgia might blind some, going back I think the delivery in the original was a little... flat as compared to how I remembered it. The voice actors have clearly grown a lot in these 15 years since the original, and they're bringing their A-game!
+ Story choices. Overrall this remake is more faithful to the light novels, which opens up for the possibility of them coverering the entire story.
I would also like to add that I kinda prefer both anime to the novels in one regard, being Holo. In the books she's kind of an asshole most of the time, and her endearing qualities get lost sometimes. Both shows do a great job portraying her teasing as playful and good natured.
The original:
+ Has way better music that, and this is the important part, fit the scenes more smoothly. The new score is great, but it hasn't been cut the same way to follow the scenes smoothly. No impacts where important things happen, the music doesn't suddenly drop out when drama hits etc... all important tropes in an immersive soundtrack. As someone who does music for a living this disappointed me with the new score. Penkin is clearly amazing and the songs by themselves are great, they just weren't implemented well in the final cut to me.
+ Has a more "mature" feel. The characters are less cutesy and the overrall art design is more gloomy. With character writing as mature and nuanced as Spice & Wolf, it fit the theme very well.
+ Timeless animation. It looks great to this day! The modern use of CGI in anime is a crime to humanity lol. Then again, with working conditions being what they seem to be in Japan nowadays we should cut the animators a lot of slack.
- There's more filler. While enjoyable, it sometimes put the flow of the plot on hold.
- The length... They skipped light novel 4 and instead ended on the cliffhanger that is volume 5. A real shame it never continued!
The remake:
- The music, or at least how it's been cut into the show. As mentioned above!
- The use of CGI and overrall animation quality. The show looks great a lot of times, but other times the characters looks stiff, CGI looks wonky and the ways they hide a characters movements is sometimes so blatant that it's funny. Lawrence standing with his hand over his mouth for a solid minute, mouths being covered by cups etc...
+ The character design! I like the design of both shows, and I don't really prefer one over the other. They both look great! People complaining about Holo looking too cutesy in the new show should stay clear of the novels and the manga, where she literally looks like a child lol.
+ The animation (at times). For example, I thought Holo's transformation was way better in the remake as compared to the original. The less feral look made much more sense for her, as she's a normal (if gigantic) wolf and not some feral monster. They also did it the scene in what at least looked like 2D animation instead of CGI, which I was afraid they'd be doing. The scene put a big smile on my face!
+ The Japanese voice acting. While nostalgia might blind some, going back I think the delivery in the original was a little... flat as compared to how I remembered it. The voice actors have clearly grown a lot in these 15 years since the original, and they're bringing their A-game!
+ Story choices. Overrall this remake is more faithful to the light novels, which opens up for the possibility of them coverering the entire story.
I would also like to add that I kinda prefer both anime to the novels in one regard, being Holo. In the books she's kind of an asshole most of the time, and her endearing qualities get lost sometimes. Both shows do a great job portraying her teasing as playful and good natured.
| @MonkoTJ Quote: "People complaining about Holo looking too cutesy in the new show should stay clear of the novels and the manga, where she literally looks like a child lol" You don't have to read past any more text past the next five paragraphs (one is a sentence long and each is marked with a - sign at the start. I enjoy overthinking because it incites me to learn foreign/new things. Though... it's not something I do very much, since I have my mind set to specific tasks. This is a good time for me though, finally cleared of obligations (for the next 12 hours). - To get straight to the point, I'm definitely bothered to see people likening the character Holo to terms like "child" or "children". - In LN Vol. 1, when Lawrence first glance's at Holo, he assumes that she is "about fifteen" From a biological standpoint, girls apparently stop growing height at 14-15, so that fits; 14 generally seems to be the limit (I'm not a doctor). If I try to interpret this from the author's perspective, The aforementioned quote of "about fifteen" reads to me like "at least 15, if not older", since she could have the same height at any age past 15 and now had the appearance of a young woman / young adult; as far as I know, 1That's probably why I hear a lot of people say it can be hard to discern between high school and college students, age wise. (note: 15 is the minimum age for Japanese high school. Middle school there has an extra year compared to American high school.) But thb I was surprised at "15" in the LN though, I would've thought the estimate to be higher. If that were the actual age, then she'd somehow be a child. No offense to OP or any of the other posters, but I have to ask myself why the fuck am I discussing how actual real girls grow just to explain lore on an anime forum, I feel gross and uncomfortable. Legitimately. But I'm the one who chose to share my thoughts; I guess I couldn't help being part of the discussion. - She looks more like a girl in her late teens in both the anime and the source light novel. It's the manga where they shrunk her down and made her a short stack. Yeah, Holo in the OG anime/ LN had her cute moments, like when she pouts / is sick. - There's a picture of Holo (LN version) holding a smaller version of herself. The image was posted online before I read Vol 16, and I remember wondering if it was fanart, or even Holo's child. I wasn't the only person to speculate that it might be her child, either. There didn't really seem like much other explanation, though we knew it'd yet to be confirmed since Vol. 17 was untranslated. Later I found out it was an official image- and one depicting LN Holo with manga Holo. Clear size difference. - I'm aware it's possible you included the "novels" by accident or meant to put that term elsewhere, but I won't assume that is the case. I disagree with that. Though the manga is definitely child kinda wtf, and doesn't fit the image I built of Holo in the LN, based on my imagination and all those extensive paragraphs/descriptions that come with the novels. I don't really understand your perspective with LN Holo. But, I have to accept it exists. I also suppose everyone draws their own separate imagery when reading a novel to some extent. It's more than fine to have your own mind, though it is important to be able to keep reality and fiction. No idea where you're at on that scale, if you're 0 or 100, but you do you : ) You know what's strange? I keep waiting to feel this big flow of euphoria or enthusiasm at the remaking existing (and being out), but it only comes in rare short doses. My interest seems quick to wane, but overall stays present. Yet right now t I'm writing a lot and quite quickly! Seems I still do truly care for Spice & Wolf after all these years, perhaps because I dedicated so much time to reading it. I was quite young when I read it, and I had to look up a lot of things, not just medieval words. I learned a fair bit from it. I can get really invested in characters and their stories, but cognitively I don't necessarily see them as humans. They're concepts in another reality. I'd say suffering brings parallels the closest though, and I never thought of this as a rigid rule even when others mentioned it, but it effectively seems like I get disgusted/stop consuming a work that displays higher levels of suffering if it doesn't feel truly necessary or relevant to the plot. It's more of what I feel than what I think, when it comes to that. Personally. I do think that art/manga that intentionally draw parallels to reality, takes heavy inspiration from it, or depicts things in a truly realistic way had better take care not to trivialize the subject that they're depicting. Certain distasteful things should not be simply dismissed as "just art". I'm not going to tell the artist not to dream up the idea, but I'd prefer not knowing that it ever exists, and it would likely be better if they didn't make the manga or kept it to themselves. Sidenote: I'm not referring to your opinion when I said I'd rather not know, lol. Anyway, as I said, the manga version of her character is definitely smaller and seems more like a child.... unfortunately. It's one reason I didn't read the whole manga, just parts of it. It makes me uncomfortable in possibly more than one way. Also it's really hard for me to identify her in my mind as "Holo". OG anime Holo mostly looks like the LN version, it's just that she has one of those generic(?) edged faces that you'd see more in pre-2010's anime. The way she was depicted personality wise, and even her face, only added to the sense of maturity. Other comments- I know to some, what I'm about to say might be ignored as mere yapping, but for me it's an opportunity to air out grievances about a certain topic. The s is something I should never say it out loud. I mean I've never tried it, but I can surmise results. Frankly... I still feel kind of guilty for having this mindset, having seen how others have used it to enable abuse. My experience doesn't lie, but my heart hates truths. To put in mildly, I'm of the opinion that people in their early twenties aren't mature; I honestly lack the ability to mentally consider some twenty year olds as adults. I know that sounds haughty and have never liked statements that are vaguely in that kind of domain because they seem presumptuous and condescending. I was a teen or perhaps younger when I began to firmly realize how unreliable people can be at any age. Even so, I continue to naturally assume when I see an adult that their state of mind matches their appearance. After many years of experience- of assuming that an adult I meet for the first time truly is an adult- I've come to recognize that this assumption of mine is often wrong. Though, for some reason I keep hoping anyway, and get endlessly disappointed. I won't lie that I have high standards, and in some ways the standards I set are too high. I unconsciously hold people to my own standards. (Please don't burn me at the stake for thinking that) So, back to the main point: since some people don't seem actually mature despite being in their earlier twenties, they personally don't appear to me as adults very much. And if we're doing appearance vs body in relation to anime, I'll mention that this is a different case than debates revolving around writers creating various lolis who are then labeled to be hundreds of years old. Such debates are so common that they literally became a meme. I really don't want to get into that topic, but I'll compare it anyway, since it's unfortunately a popular topic. If we were to compare her to Shinobu (referring to when she's in her original and most common form), both characters are centuries old, have an accent that feels like it came from antiquity, and are very mature/wise, even talking down to the protagonist if they wish. So there is some similarity with their non-physical traits, even though that cluster of similarities are somewhat a bit of an anime trope (what isn’t? Lol). But their appearances don't match; Shinobu's general form is definitely one of a child, and by contrast, Holo's is not. So her form gives further credence to her behavior. Appearance aside, personality wise: Holo's confidence in her sex appeal says a lot. Her maturity is solidified by the way she can easily put aside her playfulness and quickly don a serious demeanor when the situation demands it (or when she feels like it). This, coupled with her mature wisdom and at times pesnive mood, would make her seem older when viewed at length (such was the case for many, including myself.) I honestly thought she had a sort of adult charm, as if she's seducing him in certain scenes, some of which are already animated. . Opinion here, but her seductive playfulness seems more akin to an experienced woman, and she also displays the tempestuous whims of a maiden (maiden means young woman); her loneliness also speaks toward the length of adulthood. Moe is often sexual, but in a way that often changes the tone of a show and distracts / pulls away from the plot. I'd like to point out that the manga started serializing within a year or so of the LN's first volume, and continued to run for roughly six years after the LN published its epilogue. Meanwhile, the anime only had a couple years and then was discontinued, going all the way up to 100 chapters and reaching the end of the LN's main story. If it had a run ten whole years, and the publishers didn't discontinue it, so I imagine it was very well received by audiences. And I suspect that the relative recency of the manga publishing likely affected perception of what Spice and Wolf / who Holo is, to some degree. For example, I've anecdotally heard that there wasn't much Spice and Wolf doujinshi for many years. I can't say for sure, because I'm not an active collector of art, but some people really enjoy that. Most of them were drawn without much apparent reference to the source, but there were at least a few based on her appearance in the anime. However, for several years prior to this adaptation there was an increasing amount of doujinshis related to the manga. Now, I think it's overflowing with designs based on the manga. I didn't verify this for myself, but the person who told me quite this likely believed it to be true. I do know that for the last five years or so, I began to see less art of LN Holo the art people posted or sent to me. So that kind of overlaps with my friend's story. So is just my take, but- The manga was a bit (surprisingly at times) over the top with the moe; to me, the way she was drawn and the moeness made manga Holo feel like a different character. So it was hard for me to get into. It skipped a couple volumes like the OG anime did, but still essentially covered the whole main story of the original LN series. Still, perhaps the moe was appealing, because the serialization was never canceled, continuing on to publish for a full decade. Moe makes money. They had one dedicated chapter, which, if recall, was basically a surreal moe-fest. The two of them at a concern hall in modern times, Lawrence being an announcer with a mic, and lots of moe. (been over five years since I read it). In the absence of the anime, the manga was the sole ongoing adaptation. The manga, serving as a visualization for the series, offered many more images of Holo than the LN ever did. Its iteration of Holo was the most recent/current representation of her character. Manga is more accessible to read when tired or relaxing anyway, since there’s less words and it takes less focus. So, that would make the manga the Most recent and most accessible adaptation. So associating her with the lili-appearance would likely have become more common; having consistently been the standard for while, it would make sense for the next serialized adaptation of Holo to be similar in appearance, or at least have the next depiction of Holo share some traits with her modern iteration. Other things- (LN was 2006-2011, anime 2008-2009), Two years after the manga ended, we got Spice and Wolf VR, which is quite short on story, but full of cuetsy-moe; also, they made her look like a loli, or (flat lol) girl in her younger teens. Definitely younger looking than the anime or LN. The game is pure fluff and headpat. It got a sequel a year later. Now, here we are with this anime. Apparently, it's true this remake has more directly adapted the plot and given characters greater range of expression. But, it may have also leaned further into the moe element in terms of tone and directing. You can have the same plot and writing, but an animation always has to add more than the source offered, such as voicing, music, angle at which things are shown, and the fluidity of the movement. tldr- it’s been many, many years since I read the LN, and I do agree that certain aspects of Holo’s design are more distinctive now and closer to source. Still not a child tho in remake, from what I’ve seen. Imo they blurred the lines between manga and LN. I’m sure the anime will show stuff not previously animated, and that is pretty cool. Afterthoughts- ngl tho, this should hurt me to say (and doesn’t), but im not that interested in spice and wolf, nor holo anymore. I felt like it concluded at 16-17 and was happy to leave it there. A good story needs a definitive ending. That said, maybe I’ll read the sequel series that has the daughter and col as a protagonist… some day or year. Whenever I get around to it lol. I don't really get into discussions like this often since my keyboard is pretty active with other shit; I spent my free time. it's not a problem if you disagree with my perspective. But I'm always open to gaining additional insight if someone provides it. |
iSpadeYesterday, 4:25 PM
More topics from this board
» RatingAshTheChamp - 8 hours ago |
5 |
by KayKimii
»»
3 hours ago |
|
Poll: » Ookami to Koushinryou: Merchant Meets the Wise Wolf Episode 6 Discussion ( 1 2 3 )Stark700 - May 6 |
118 |
by Magicmist
»»
4 hours ago |
|
Poll: » Ookami to Koushinryou: Merchant Meets the Wise Wolf Episode 8 DiscussionStark700 - May 20 |
46 |
by Uguu_Tsukimiya
»»
6 hours ago |
|
Poll: » Ookami to Koushinryou: Merchant Meets the Wise Wolf Episode 5 Discussion ( 1 2 )Softhenic03 - Apr 29 |
94 |
by LuisSV23
»»
Yesterday, 9:01 AM |
|
Poll: » Ookami to Koushinryou: Merchant Meets the Wise Wolf Episode 7 Discussion ( 1 2 )Stark700 - May 13 |
63 |
by acosenza
»»
May 21, 2:16 PM |