A portion of fans of Japanese animation and manga on MAL as well as some genuinely insane Youtubers have been shitting on translators and localization teams for the past few weeks and saying things like, "I hope AI replaces your job, it will be much better". Well, it's already started happening and the results are catastrophic. Most people have been mentioning the Ancient Magus Bride's manga using AI translation, while a more dire example of how bad this is can be seen in the official English translated release of Sumiyoshi Ryo's Centaurs, a 2016 manga which has recently started publishing in English by Ablaze Manga. Ablaze decided to cheap out and use AI translations for the book and the results have led to mistakes that literally any professional translator would not make, and ones that not even a beginner student would make. Issues such as:
would not be present if a human actually were translating this. Other series like Kamen Rider Kuuga have also been AI translated with completely nonsensical results that are so bad to read that it hurts the quality of the product. So far this has only seemed to happen with manga but imagine this garbage spreads to anime subtitles. They would just be completely unreadable garbage (and possibly even contain timing errors) that would be so incredibly inaccurate to the point of making a mockery of the source material. Translation and localization is a very difficult process, and a machine is completely unable to understand things such as:
A lot of AI supporters use the argument that "AI can learn and adapt to improve its issues". What they refuse to acknowledge is that AI doesn't actually learn, it just follows patterns and can't actively understand what it is doing and complex nuances of something like language. Translating written and spoken language isn't like a math problem with one strict answer, it is more akin to a puzzle in a video game that may have multiple equally valid solutions, some more straightforward and some more creative, but never only limited to one solution. AI also does have biases on how to handle things based off of the patterns it has copied, so the argument of "Using AI to overcome bias of woke localizers" is a poor argument since an AI can only spit out the data has been fed, and there will ALWAYS be bias in any situation, whether a human or a machine is the one in charge of taking care of things. There is no such thing as being "unbiased", especially when translating a language like Japanese which can be very vague and confusing at times. If these AI translations become more widespread, a lot of people are going to be turned away from anime and manga as these translations are nowhere near up to professional standards, let alone beginner standards. The average person would prefer a solid product with maybe a few flaws rather than a near incomprehensible mess spit out by a computer that can't understand basic concepts of the Japanese language and the translation and localization process. If you really are upset with how things are translated by human professionals, then learn Japanese so you don't have to deal with the translations and let everyone else enjoy it. Don't fucking harass localization teams, wish them death, or wish they have their job replaced by some program that does their work at an unacceptable standard. |
LSSJ_GamingJan 13, 1:27 PM
This post is brought to you by your local transfem gamer goblin. Will not tolerate bigotry and will fight against "anti-woke" sentiment to make the anime community a safer place.  |
Try this few weeks ago, i just provide name btw and let ai choose who is who and result not too bad even with that lack information/data. This is the impression from sora about the situation. 2h though. |
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| the question is can mahoraga adapt to translate |
 Migi... Handle the defence. |
Reply to Luc36
Try this few weeks ago, i just provide name btw and let ai choose who is who and result not too bad even with that lack information/data.
This is the impression from sora about the situation. 2h though.
This is the impression from sora about the situation. 2h though.
| @Luc36 It isn't the best for long stretches of text. The longer a work is, generally the worse the results. Translating a few short sentences is different to translating a whole novel, comic, or TV show which may have hundreds or thousands of lines of spoken dialogue |
| This post is brought to you by your local transfem gamer goblin. Will not tolerate bigotry and will fight against "anti-woke" sentiment to make the anime community a safer place. |
Reply to AshuAmbrose
Honestly, this whole drama started due to a few bad localizers(I am sure you guys already know about the Dragon Maid dub and other instances of unnecessary changes to the characters' original lines) which justifiably made the entire community turn against them and at the same time we have companies seeing the vast potential of AI. So what happens when a hated person's position is threatened by an uncontrollable threat? People start supporting that threat due to their hatred for that person and that's exactly what is happening here right now. If those localizers hadn't made such a mess and simply apologized instead of doubling down then maybe they would have had some support from the community but now it's too late they are already demonized in the eyes of the fans and as far as AI is concerned it is only a matter of time before it gets so good at translating that most people wouldn't be able to tell the difference. Yes, the translations are bad right now but they can simply have someone review those translations and report the errors which would further train the AI, rinse and repeat for a few years and the AI comes close to perfection the poor reviewer then gets fired during "corporate restructuring".
| @AshuAmbrose The Dragon Maid situation was 7 years ago, and a lot has changed since then (and even then that was only in the dub, and I am pretty sure most fans of the show watched with the subtitles which used an alternate translation.) Besides localization standards have come a long way over the past 4 decades. We aren't really in the age of queer, violent, sexual, and Japanese cultural content being removed to appeal to conservative parents anymore where shows would be massively cut up and heavily censored to hell and back, sometimes coming out completely unrecognizable. Localizations nowadays are MUCH more accurate to the source material and tend to pretty cleverly get around issues such as lip-flap timing, untranslatable jokes, and cultural references that may be lost. The quality of the crap AI is spitting out is honestly so poor quality, that it wouldn't even be worth a human going over and manually tweaking it, it has that many problems because it genuinely struggles with basic functions of the Japanese language. If it makes mistakes that a Japanese 101 college course (sometimes referred to as Elementary Japanese) wouldn't even make, then it shouldn't even be used in a professionally published work in the first place. |
| This post is brought to you by your local transfem gamer goblin. Will not tolerate bigotry and will fight against "anti-woke" sentiment to make the anime community a safer place. |
Reply to LSSJ_Gaming
@Luc36
It isn't the best for long stretches of text. The longer a work is, generally the worse the results. Translating a few short sentences is different to translating a whole novel, comic, or TV show which may have hundreds or thousands of lines of spoken dialogue
It isn't the best for long stretches of text. The longer a work is, generally the worse the results. Translating a few short sentences is different to translating a whole novel, comic, or TV show which may have hundreds or thousands of lines of spoken dialogue
| @LSSJ_Gaming I'm too lazy making new long story because i just try to test chatGPT ability to understand the context and situation. Sora explain more, and he also saying CN already using this. |
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| Real life AI as it is right now is so disappointing, often the tool of greedy corpos not wanting to pay actual people, rather than a tool that actually does human work better than humans. I dont see AI replacing humans in art making anytime soon, AI lacks creative thinking and logical deduction, its closer to Mass Effect´s VI (Virtual Intelligence) than true AI that we have grown accustomed in sci-fi works. |
 "Don't let your memes be dreams."- Ancient Japanese proverb, probably |
| Technically they could improve it a number of ways such as making custom models that translate for different characters differently and use image detection to better match context. It won't be on same level as a good least biased human translator but it could be used to help them make decisions on what would be the most common words to use in a given situation by a given character type. Like what would be the English speaking equivalent to the type of talk gyaru use? Just typical slang a teenager uses or more like a California girl? |
| I don't care if AI translates the text, as long as there is human proofreading at the end. Probably that's the future role for localizers, giving AI feedback and checking the results. |
ZarutakuJan 13, 1:52 PM
This dance is the pinnacle of human achievement. |
| AI translations should direct themselves to untranslated adult content, where the subtle details do not matter |
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Reply to Zarutaku
I don't care if AI translates the text, as long as there is human proofreading at the end.
Probably that's the future role for localizers, giving AI feedback and checking the results.
Probably that's the future role for localizers, giving AI feedback and checking the results.
| @Zarutaku The issue with the stuff is that it is so genuinely bad, even if a human proofread it, the whole thing would need to be scrapped. That's genuinely how low quality it is. If 90% of the text would need to be completely rewritten, what is the point in even using an AI. in the first place? |
| This post is brought to you by your local transfem gamer goblin. Will not tolerate bigotry and will fight against "anti-woke" sentiment to make the anime community a safer place. |
Reply to LSSJ_Gaming
@Zarutaku
The issue with the stuff is that it is so genuinely bad, even if a human proofread it, the whole thing would need to be scrapped. That's genuinely how low quality it is. If 90% of the text would need to be completely rewritten, what is the point in even using an AI. in the first place?
The issue with the stuff is that it is so genuinely bad, even if a human proofread it, the whole thing would need to be scrapped. That's genuinely how low quality it is. If 90% of the text would need to be completely rewritten, what is the point in even using an AI. in the first place?
| @LSSJ_Gaming Maybe it's not good enough yet, but I'm close to 100% sure that it will become good enough in the near future. |
This dance is the pinnacle of human achievement. |
| AI translating is in its infancy, nobody expected it to be perfect day 1, give it some time, it will be better eventually. If anything the presence of AI so soon in translating should teach the arrogant localizers to calm down (like a lot) or be replaced in 3-5 years. |
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Reply to Lazulite
if you're studying japanese then why does it matter to you what translations say? if you're making the most out of your learning then you should be watching anime raw or with jp subs anyway and have no interest in what happens with translations.
| @Lazulite I actually think that referencing well done translations can help if you're studying to be a translator. Translation and language are a passion of mine, so this stuff does matter to me, especially considering that my fallback plan if I can't make my artistic plans work out is to try and get a job translating video games. |
| This post is brought to you by your local transfem gamer goblin. Will not tolerate bigotry and will fight against "anti-woke" sentiment to make the anime community a safer place. |
Lol. The shit isn't even really ready, and they are willing to sacrifice for it to get rid of western localizers as soon as possible.  We are just now getting the new hardware and architectures for AI. Gonna try out the snapdragon surface pro 3 myself. |
SoverignJan 13, 4:10 PM
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| I'll take bad translations over unfunny memes and political shit shoved in when there wasn't anything of the sort in the original. Never have I wished for someone's dreams to NOT come true lol: "especially considering that my fallback plan if I can't make my artistic plans work out is to try and get a job translating video games" |
TropischJan 13, 8:19 PM
| "Well, she's flatter than a pancake" -Mimi Alpacas "Woof" -Tobiichi Origami "Are you trying to turn the dormitory into a strip club!?! -Atena Saotome |
| When its get translated to sub I already think we're missing out on some details but AI? |
| Signature removed. Please follow the signature rules, as defined in the Site & Forum Guidelines. |
| I heard recently a bunch of people got fired from Duolingo and are getting replaced by AI as well. We're really at the beginning stage of losing jobs to this huh? |
Reply to Neterosan
I heard recently a bunch of people got fired from Duolingo and are getting replaced by AI as well. We're really at the beginning stage of losing jobs to this huh?
| @Neterosan That doesnt make sense to be true because Duolingo from the start was for community translations. They are just a business that uses the users for free translation they profit off of. |
| Can't say about each site and language, though I know by seeing that one Polish site which has some fansubs firstly provides AI translation into Polish subs by warning that it is not correct and after a certain time there is an official translation. It started to happen as quickly as it was possible. |
| AI is not yet there to reliable translate everything. Especially from Asian to Western languages. But funny enough. 99% given sentences that were purposely butchered by editors/localizers (these that are most popular fuck ups) turned out to be so simple that even google translate did way better work than lolcalizers. I really don't understand people who, in this day and age, continue to defend localization and these garbage human beings, who still brag about how that they deliberately destroy translations using dead memes, their sick "morality," political correctness and other woke shit. The place of such individuals is under the bridge as unemployed, banned forever from the translation industry. Imagine that people prefer AI TLs (which still have some way to go before they can be implemented production-wise) to localized crap. That's what localizers have led to. But I'm personally very happy about it. Finally, people are opening their eyes. |
rsc-plJan 13, 5:06 PM
| Dub = fake crap. Always. |
| AI translation is garbo, and no matter how bad you might think a human localization is, AI or MTL is not going to be better |
| It's funny how everything related to AI always involves some kind of future tense: "will be much better", "will become good enough in the near future", "will be better eventually", "in 3-5 years" etc. I'm not saying it won't because I'm not an expert, but the prudent man keeps a certain degree of skepticism when it comes to this kind of prediction, especially if it sounds like "Buy today even though it's crap, because it will be good later, trust me." Too many hype trains have been wrecked in the past. |
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| @animegamer245 Piracy is fine if you can't afford something or if you can but need to check it out first before purchase. Most fan's are better spending their money on official merchandizing. I mean people in Japan see anime for free on TV anyway so it isn't like sales of the thing in itself is the only way to support the industry... |
LSSJ_Gaming said: Names using the wrong kanji readings despite the furigana telling you how to pronounce the name being RIGHT THERE in the original Japanese text. I've seen that in older translations, to be fair... LSSJ_Gaming said: So far this has only seemed to happen with manga but imagine this garbage spreads to anime subtitles. I've seen that too, albeit thankfully not in any commercial product. https://myanimelist.net/anime/23659/Hi_no_Tori__Hagoromo-hen https://youtu.be/Je4cKyLo1tk?si=kxtzmOx3SyjMo4UW LSSJ_Gaming said: What a joke or pun is (which would lead to said jokes being unadapted or turned into complete nonsense). Clannad's fan translation has that. So much for the idea that official localizers ruin everything. |
LucifrostJan 13, 8:13 PM
| その目だれの目？ |
Reply to traed
@animegamer245
Piracy is fine if you can't afford something or if you can but need to check it out first before purchase. Most fan's are better spending their money on official merchandizing. I mean people in Japan see anime for free on TV anyway so it isn't like sales of the thing in itself is the only way to support the industry...
Piracy is fine if you can't afford something or if you can but need to check it out first before purchase. Most fan's are better spending their money on official merchandizing. I mean people in Japan see anime for free on TV anyway so it isn't like sales of the thing in itself is the only way to support the industry...
traed said: Most fan's are better spending their money on official merchandizing. I mean people in Japan see anime for free on TV anyway so it isn't like sales of the thing in itself is the only way to support the industry... It's unfortunately quite difficult to find merchandise outside Japan for anime outside the mainstream. |
| その目だれの目？ |
Reply to Lucifrost
traed said:
Most fan's are better spending their money on official merchandizing. I mean people in Japan see anime for free on TV anyway so it isn't like sales of the thing in itself is the only way to support the industry...
Most fan's are better spending their money on official merchandizing. I mean people in Japan see anime for free on TV anyway so it isn't like sales of the thing in itself is the only way to support the industry...
It's unfortunately quite difficult to find merchandise outside Japan for anime outside the mainstream.
| @Lucifrost Yeah it can be. Some places in the US have anime shops though probably limited on what they carry but nothing where I live and shipping from Japan is tricky. Lucifrost said: Clannad's fan translation has that. So much for the idea that official localizers ruin everything. I think in general puns pretty tricky since there may be occasions nothing even remotely close is possible so occasionally youd have to skip the reference to a pun otherwise dialogue gets too weird trying to force a pun in if none is available to be slipped in. Though that is probably very rare nothing would work. |
| using ai can reduce the workload of translations a lot. they directly make changes to the already translated text to make it sound more human and in accordance with the context of the scene. i see it as a very good thing. |
 The end of an era. Thank you Wit, Mappa and Isayama. Feeling half happy, half sad. Kawaii waifus and precious best girls <3333 |
Reply to Lucifrost
LSSJ_Gaming said:
Names using the wrong kanji readings despite the furigana telling you how to pronounce the name being RIGHT THERE in the original Japanese text.
Names using the wrong kanji readings despite the furigana telling you how to pronounce the name being RIGHT THERE in the original Japanese text.
I've seen that in older translations, to be fair...
LSSJ_Gaming said:
So far this has only seemed to happen with manga but imagine this garbage spreads to anime subtitles.
So far this has only seemed to happen with manga but imagine this garbage spreads to anime subtitles.
I've seen that too, albeit thankfully not in any commercial product.
https://myanimelist.net/anime/23659/Hi_no_Tori__Hagoromo-hen
https://youtu.be/Je4cKyLo1tk?si=kxtzmOx3SyjMo4UW
LSSJ_Gaming said:
What a joke or pun is (which would lead to said jokes being unadapted or turned into complete nonsense).
What a joke or pun is (which would lead to said jokes being unadapted or turned into complete nonsense).
Clannad's fan translation has that. So much for the idea that official localizers ruin everything.
| @Lucifrost That is true, these mistakes can occasionally happen with human translators as well, but they seem to be much more frequent when using AI or ML software. Nowadays I know that certain licensors will double check things like character names, how certain terminology is translated, and other similar things to help double check the work or fit in with existing trademarks that may have been filed for these characters and terms. On the part about AI subtitles, I am kind of not surprised of bootlegs and fan translations using them since those generally don't have any standards to uphold from licensors which can sometimes lead to lower quality output like that. |
| This post is brought to you by your local transfem gamer goblin. Will not tolerate bigotry and will fight against "anti-woke" sentiment to make the anime community a safer place. |
LSSJ_Gaming said: On the part about AI subtitles, I am kind of not surprised of bootlegs and fan translations using them since those generally don't have any standards to uphold from licensors which can sometimes lead to lower quality output like that. It's very difficult to put together a team to translate something not popular these days. Im not sure what it is that makes it harder nowadays than it was a few years ago. |
| @animegamer245 Did you mean exporting? |
| Only thing I can think of we as buyers can do is not buying works translated by AI; that way it isn't profitable to these corporations |
| ai translation will only improve and to me its gonna be good for fan translations too like there are lots of untranslated manga and anime anyway so ai can help with that |
| I can forgive the ai making grammer errors and mistranslations more than the localizers who decide to rewrite the script. Pretty sure most agree with that. I played plenty of mtl games. |
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| Op is clearly trying to push lies and down play issues that youtubers have pointed out about these insane politically driven "translators" that have been directly changing any content they don't like and inserting political messaging into their translations. The dragonmaid situation is a great example of this and shows what a complete mockery of the original work they made it into (this is one of the most famous examples). These so called "translators" have changed many things and rewrote entire scripts because they don't like either the joke or are offended by it, remove a sexual moment because they don't like it, insert a political ideology and more. The complete disregard for the original works and then trying to act like they are the good guys and even calling the anime community "nazis" at points for wanting accurate translations when the anime community rightfully calls them out is not only disgusting but frankly just shows how they only want to use anime to push their ideas and think they can get away with it because the original creators might not be able to understand what is going on, which shows just how racist they are as well considering they are taking advantage over the Japanese creators. Also ai isn't even bad and frankly anything is better than the politically driven "localizers" pushing their ideology on Japanese media because even though ai has it's problems which are quickly lessening by the day (chap gpt 4 is already amazing for its pretty decent translations of hentai games and frankly the speed of improvements are incredible). The misinformation about ai content quality and youtubers to defend these localizers is pretty telling about what is going on here in this post frankly. I'm really happy to see people of the anime community gather together and not tolerate this garbage from these "localizers" as well as try to inform the original creators what is going on whenever possible so they don't tolerate this garbage and even let them know about ai or to use other actually trust worthy translators to translate the stories faithfully. The more we do this the faster we can put these so called "localizers" out of the job they clearly don't deserve and give it to people who actually deserve it instead. It truly is sad we have gotten to the point of ai and fansubs being far more reliable than "official" translations as well as the fact that people actually have to research the quality of official translations of a product before buying it to avoid getting a butchered product which also leads to more pirating since people are not going to want to spend money on purposely mistranslated products. For those wanting to learn more about this there are many youtubers talking about this, (I even believe the vtuber kirsche just did a deep dive with a couple of guests the other day) to talk about the insanity that is the "localizers" and how they are getting caught in their own lies and called out on their garbage and how they laugh in the face of the anime community and are proud of their mistranslations. Of course there are others as well like Rev says desu for example who should have a few videos on this topic as well. Always stay informed my fellow anime lovers and don't let these "localizers" continue to destroy the thing we love. |
Ecchi_ZoneJan 14, 8:28 AM
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| @animegamer245 there are plenty of options to buy merch from Japan: Amazon Japan, CD Japan, Animate International, Animate USA, Kinokuniya, Tower JP via World Shopping, Tokyo Otaku Mode, AmiAmi, Hobby Link Japan, etc, etc. There are also services like Tenso that lets you import from Japan for goods that are normally only available domestically. |
| You can buy lossless digital music from your favorite Japanese artists on https://ototoy.jp/. The songs are all DRM-free and you can re-download your purchased albums as you wish. Show your support to your favorite artist if you can! ps. if you are looking for Japanese albums, you have to search it in Japanese (not romaji). Just copy and paste the name. For those who want to learn Japanese through anime Resources for learning the language |
| Sorry, bruh, but wokealisers won't be vandalising source materials anymore. AI technology is rapidly developing with lighting speed and new featured being improved and added on weekly basis. It is only a matter of time before it gets fixed and you declaring victory over a prototype having room for improvement is rather petty. So far it looks actually very promising. |
PiromyslJan 14, 4:33 PM
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| Most people act like offical subs are all full of mistranlations and politics, when that is mostly a dub thing not subs. Every season there's 40+ new anime, and pretty much all of their official subs are fine, I can't recall the last time I saw "politics" on a sub, mostly memes and other stuff, but not politcs, and it's definitely not that common. I mean, I remember when the new episode of AOT came out and they had to use google translate since there were no official subs yet, it was so garbage that everybody hated it, they literally were translating "Eren" into "Ellen".... traed said: Idk where you got that from, people in Japan literally have to pay to use their TVs. I mean people in Japan see anime for free on TV anyway |
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| i'm not going to complain about this now, but in 7 years i'll use this as my one and only example for why AI should be 100% banned. |
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| as for the calf/foal example, a human localizer wouldn't make that mistake. but instead, you'd see remarks about how consuming animal meat is wrong and that everyone should be a vegan or something. not that i would care, i just watch it raw on tver or on hulu with subs disabled when possible. sadly you can't disable subs from sentai blurays (at least not without hacking it with a pc), but it is what it is. |
| You can buy lossless digital music from your favorite Japanese artists on https://ototoy.jp/. The songs are all DRM-free and you can re-download your purchased albums as you wish. Show your support to your favorite artist if you can! ps. if you are looking for Japanese albums, you have to search it in Japanese (not romaji). Just copy and paste the name. For those who want to learn Japanese through anime Resources for learning the language |
MadanielFL said: Most people act like offical subs are all full of mistranlations and politics, when that is mostly a dub thing not subs. Every season there's 40+ new anime, and pretty much all of their official subs are fine, I can't recall the last time I saw "politics" on a sub, mostly memes and other stuff, but not politcs, and it's definitely not that common. I can understand why it would happen more in dubs but it's not like Japanese animation usually has as detailed of lip movement as American animation so they shouldnt struggle so much. This is some of the worst dialogue i came across.. https://boundingintocomics.com/2022/05/01/netflixs-english-dub-of-tiger-bunny-2-changes-dialogue-to-have-golden-ryan-criticize-outdated-gender-norms-declare-himself-a-feminist/ For some recent subs there was questionable localizing in The Dangers in my Heart (I think it was HiDive sub but it was corrected after), Mashle (for the Viz Media sub but not Crunchyroll) and Dark Gathering. MadanielFL said: I mean, I remember when the new episode of AOT came out and they had to use google translate since there were no official subs yet, it was so garbage that everybody hated it, they literally were translating "Eren" into "Ellen".... Lol MadanielFL said: Idk where you got that from, people in Japan literally have to pay to use their TVs. But even just using a TV without that you pay to use the electricity, so thats not what I mean by free. A TV tax if that is what it is they have same thing in the UK. Seems better to me than more ads if that is the alternative. More ads means shorter shows. hlepme said: On the other hand, you have EVIL, ANTIHUMANIST TROLLS who want to replace ALL LABOUR with AUTOMATION and KILL THE HUMAN SPIRIT! It's mostly people that program wanting to make themselves feel more important or they are stooges for billionaires. |
traedJan 14, 12:23 PM
traed said: Viz didn't sub the anime, they only translated the mangaMashle (for the Viz Media sub but not Crunchyroll) https://x.com/iuntue/status/1652154981154160640?s=20 traed said: Dark Gathering sub was classic Hidive stuff, it wasn't politics, but the translator trying not to use "lolicon" on the subs...Dark Gathering. traed said: They still have ads on JP TV tho...Seems better to me than more ads if that is the alternative. More ads means shorter shows |
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MadanielFL said: Viz didn't sub the anime, they only translated the manga Oh my bad, must have slipped up since i havent slept enough and busy doing other things. That explains why I dont recall anyone mentioning it in episode discussions. MadanielFL said: Dark Gathering sub was classic Hidive stuff, it wasn't politics, but the translator trying not to use "lolicon" on the subs... Didnt say it was necessarily politics but it was using political like language with the way "problematic" was used awkwardly messing up the intended effect of the line. Turning what was probably meant as trash talk into what sounded like a weak lecture. It was pretty bad way of doing it which is generally one of the kind of words better untranslated in many cases. Oh and just remembered another where there was a pointless change (not political)... 16 Bit Sensation: Another Layer changed "Time leap" into "time travel" even though this term was completely fine and literally recognizable what was and meant. MadanielFL said: They still have ads on JP TV tho... Yes but not as much as America i think. Though i am bit busy to compare exact times. |
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