GamerDLM said: Ryuk9428 said: Back in April and May, yes. But we did not need it to stretch out this long. It’s been 8 fucking months. In the past several weeks I’ve gotten completely tired of it and just started living my life as normal because this has gotten outrageous. If only there was a national strategy at the federal level and it wasn't left up to a state by state basis it wouldn't have been half as long. Imagine if we had nationwide strict lockdown rules for the first few months and broad mandates that followed guidelines set by the CDC. Too bad we didn't have a leader in that position who was willing to make that call. It wouldn't matter if the US had a Federal lockdown plan, because the virus will come back again, especially at winter. In Britain the lockdown is becoming more restrictive again, such as people not allowed into pubs. |
| @Ryuk9428 it really doesn't matter what part of the world your from it's never mattered what you know, or what you believe, but who you know. that is how job application work. that is how politics work. and that is why people like Andrew yang never had a chance even if his policies were probably the best of this years candidates. @RunescapeIsGreat that is because pubs are crowded places with a lot of people talking very close to each other and essentially breathing on other people. shutting them down is only logical. idk how many people will continue to not take this virus seriously, but of all people i thought someone who claims to love his countries history would understand that the plague nearly caused extinction of humanity across Europe.it exterminated more than one-third of Europe's population, but i guess i should be surprised. |
GrimAtramentOct 23, 2020 11:19 AM
| "among monsters and humans, there are only two types. Those who undergo suffering and spread it to others. And those who undergo suffering and avoid giving it to others." -Alice “Beauty is no quality in things themselves: It exists merely in the mind which contemplates them; and each mind perceives a different beauty.” David Hume “Evil is created when someone gives up on someone else. It appears when everyone gives up on someone as a lost cause and removes their path to salvation. Once they are cut off from everyone else, they become evil.” -Othinus  |
| I saw 15 minutes of it, but my family and I were saying Trump made some good points, we’re most likely going to vote for him. |
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hazarddex said: @Ryuk9428 it really doesn't matter what part of the world your from it's never mattered what you know, or what you believe, but who you know. that is how job application work. that is how politics work. and that is why people like Andrew yang never had a chance even if his policies were probably the best of this years candidates. @RunescapeIsGreat that is because pubs are crowded places with a lout of people talking very close to each other and essentially breathing on other people. That is my point, social areas will continue to be restricted back and fourth until the virus is vanquished. @Hazarddex I am confused by your post, are you saying that I am not taking the virus serious? Because I was a supporter of full military lockdown at the start of the year, and continue to be an advocate of the lockdown. |
RuneRemOct 23, 2020 11:22 AM
RunescapeIsGreat said: hazarddex said: @Ryuk9428 it really doesn't matter what part of the world your from it's never mattered what you know, or what you believe, but who you know. that is how job application work. that is how politics work. and that is why people like Andrew yang never had a chance even if his policies were probably the best of this years candidates. @RunescapeIsGreat that is because pubs are crowded places with a lout of people talking very close to each other and essentially breathing on other people. That is my point, social areas will continue to be restricted back and fourth until the virus is vanquished. @Hazarddex I am confused by your post, are you saying that I am not taking the virus serious? Because I was a supporter of full military lockdown at the start of the year, and continue to be an advocate of the lockdown. the way you worded it sounded like you were complaining about the lock-downs |
| "among monsters and humans, there are only two types. Those who undergo suffering and spread it to others. And those who undergo suffering and avoid giving it to others." -Alice “Beauty is no quality in things themselves: It exists merely in the mind which contemplates them; and each mind perceives a different beauty.” David Hume “Evil is created when someone gives up on someone else. It appears when everyone gives up on someone as a lost cause and removes their path to salvation. Once they are cut off from everyone else, they become evil.” -Othinus |
hazarddex said: RunescapeIsGreat said: That is my point, social areas will continue to be restricted back and fourth until the virus is vanquished. @Hazarddex I am confused by your post, are you saying that I am not taking the virus serious? Because I was a supporter of full military lockdown at the start of the year, and continue to be an advocate of the lockdown. the way you worded it sounded like you were complaining about the lock-downs Unfortunately nothing can be done about my autism. |
RunescapeIsGreat said: GamerDLM said: If only there was a national strategy at the federal level and it wasn't left up to a state by state basis it wouldn't have been half as long. Imagine if we had nationwide strict lockdown rules for the first few months and broad mandates that followed guidelines set by the CDC. Too bad we didn't have a leader in that position who was willing to make that call. It wouldn't matter if the US had a Federal lockdown plan, because the virus will come back again, especially at winter. In Britain the lockdown is becoming more restrictive again, such as people not allowed into pubs. The virus coming back is inherently less of a problem if it had a period where it was at least under some level of control. If it had been under control by say the start of Autumn then there would have been a stronger basis for tactics such as say contact tracing to be more reliably issued. It's basically the argument that a second wave is preferable to the first wave never really dissipating. Because by the second wave preparations are already underway but if the first wave never dissipated then it's just redundant and ineffective. |
GamerDLM said: Ryuk9428 said: Back in April and May, yes. But we did not need it to stretch out this long. It’s been 8 fucking months. In the past several weeks I’ve gotten completely tired of it and just started living my life as normal because this has gotten outrageous. If only there was a national strategy at the federal level and it wasn't left up to a state by state basis it wouldn't have been half as long. Imagine if we had nationwide strict lockdown rules for the first few months and broad mandates that followed guidelines set by the CDC. Too bad we didn't have a leader in that position who was willing to make that call. That's just not how the US system works. When Trump was suggesting policies for all the states they accused him of trying to be a dictator so he backed off. This is what pisses me off is that when it comes to Trump its basically damned if he does and damned if he doesn't. |
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Ryuk9428 said: GamerDLM said: If only there was a national strategy at the federal level and it wasn't left up to a state by state basis it wouldn't have been half as long. Imagine if we had nationwide strict lockdown rules for the first few months and broad mandates that followed guidelines set by the CDC. Too bad we didn't have a leader in that position who was willing to make that call. That's just not how the US system works. When Trump was suggesting policies for all the states they accused him of trying to be a dictator so he backed off. This is what pisses me off is that when it comes to Trump its basically damned if he does and damned if he doesn't. He openly rejected all responsibility when it came to closing states and explicitly stated he was leaving it up to the governors. He then later flipped on that stance claiming he had absolute authority to command the states to open back up. To a degree that a coalition of states formed who had instituted their own lockdown rules to reject his efforts to force them to reopen. Hell he could have just signed another meaningless executive order to follow the CDC guidelines, at least it would have had a more symbolic gesture then just saying "not my job" and given him an out to blame the CDC if anyone disagrees. Also maybe as a leader he should know to take charge and not be upset by people saying mean things about him, (also there is plenty of precedent to call him a person who at least passively aspires to be a dictator). |
Ryuk9428 said: GamerDLM said: If only there was a national strategy at the federal level and it wasn't left up to a state by state basis it wouldn't have been half as long. Imagine if we had nationwide strict lockdown rules for the first few months and broad mandates that followed guidelines set by the CDC. Too bad we didn't have a leader in that position who was willing to make that call. That's just not how the US system works. When Trump was suggesting policies for all the states they accused him of trying to be a dictator so he backed off. This is what pisses me off is that when it comes to Trump its basically damned if he does and damned if he doesn't. This is a dumb argument, everyone knows the left is inherently hypocritical (anti-lockdown, and then pro-lockdown / anti-war and then pro-war) so it's pointless to blame the left for Trump not having done a Federal lockdown, Trump lacked the will power to do his job, it's obvious to everyone in the West that Trump has ignored his campaign promises, he said he would've handled Ebola better than Obama, and then a pandemic happens in the West, and does he effective deal the the virus, no, because he doesn't want to be criticised by petty leftists that are always going to criticise him. |
RuneRemOct 23, 2020 12:03 PM
GamerDLM said: Ryuk9428 said: That's just not how the US system works. When Trump was suggesting policies for all the states they accused him of trying to be a dictator so he backed off. This is what pisses me off is that when it comes to Trump its basically damned if he does and damned if he doesn't. He openly rejected all responsibility when it came to closing states and explicitly stated he was leaving it up to the governors. He then later flipped on that stance claiming he had absolute authority to command the states to open back up. To a degree that a coalition of states formed who had instituted their own lockdown rules to reject his efforts to force them to reopen. Hell he could have just signed another meaningless executive order to follow the CDC guidelines, at least it would have had a more symbolic gesture then just saying "not my job" and given him an out to blame the CDC if anyone disagrees. Also maybe as a leader he should know to take charge and not be upset by people saying mean things about him, (also there is plenty of precedent to call him a person who at least passively aspires to be a dictator). Yeah he said he was leaving it up to the state governors because they accused him of trying to be a dictator when he started telling them what to do. Now that it was left up to the state governors, it is ridiculous to be blaming Trump for things that they fucked up on. Gregg Abbot and Ron DeSantis did not fuck up nearly as badly as Andrew Cuomo and Phil Murphy did despite running states that were just as large if not larger. @RunescapeIsGreat Ebola is a much much less contagious disease that is significantly easier to control than COVID. |
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Ryuk9428 said: GamerDLM said: He openly rejected all responsibility when it came to closing states and explicitly stated he was leaving it up to the governors. He then later flipped on that stance claiming he had absolute authority to command the states to open back up. To a degree that a coalition of states formed who had instituted their own lockdown rules to reject his efforts to force them to reopen. Hell he could have just signed another meaningless executive order to follow the CDC guidelines, at least it would have had a more symbolic gesture then just saying "not my job" and given him an out to blame the CDC if anyone disagrees. Also maybe as a leader he should know to take charge and not be upset by people saying mean things about him, (also there is plenty of precedent to call him a person who at least passively aspires to be a dictator). Yeah he said he was leaving it up to the state governors because they accused him of trying to be a dictator when he started telling them what to do. Now that it was left up to the state governors, it is ridiculous to be blaming Trump for things that they fucked up on. Gregg Abbot and Ron DeSantis did not fuck up nearly as badly as Andrew Cuomo and Phil Murphy did despite running states that were just as large if not larger. @RunescapeIsGreat Ebola is a much much less contagious disease that is significantly easier to control than COVID. It is super easy to stop Coronavirus, at the start of 2020 shutdown international travel to the US and institute a lockdown. There the issue is almost entirely resolved. Then with people not spreading the virus as much, masks and essential medical equipment can be used more wisely for those that are infected with the Coronavirus. |
Ryuk9428 said: GamerDLM said: He openly rejected all responsibility when it came to closing states and explicitly stated he was leaving it up to the governors. He then later flipped on that stance claiming he had absolute authority to command the states to open back up. To a degree that a coalition of states formed who had instituted their own lockdown rules to reject his efforts to force them to reopen. Hell he could have just signed another meaningless executive order to follow the CDC guidelines, at least it would have had a more symbolic gesture then just saying "not my job" and given him an out to blame the CDC if anyone disagrees. Also maybe as a leader he should know to take charge and not be upset by people saying mean things about him, (also there is plenty of precedent to call him a person who at least passively aspires to be a dictator). Yeah he said he was leaving it up to the state governors because they accused him of trying to be a dictator when he started telling them what to do. Now that it was left up to the state governors, it is ridiculous to be blaming Trump for things that they fucked up on. Gregg Abbot and Ron DeSantis did not fuck up nearly as badly as Andrew Cuomo and Phil Murphy did despite running states that were just as large if not larger. @RunescapeIsGreat Ebola is a much much less contagious disease that is significantly easier to control than COVID. Florida did horribly and has continued to do horribly, they didn't even have a consistent statewide lockdown and left it up to a county by county basis. That's why it's one of the current major hotspots for infections in the world. Texas and Florida are both higher in terms of number of cases than New York despite New York being an early hotspot and Texas has more reported cases than California and a higher rate of death despite having 10 million less people. New York and California have also much more broadly focused on testing than Texas and Florida using the data I linked and rounding California issued 17 million, New York issued 13 Million, Texas has reported 8 Million and Florida has reported 6 million. Florida has a higher population than New York but has issued less than half of the amount of tests. |
GamerDLMOct 23, 2020 12:36 PM
GamerDLM said: Ryuk9428 said: Yeah he said he was leaving it up to the state governors because they accused him of trying to be a dictator when he started telling them what to do. Now that it was left up to the state governors, it is ridiculous to be blaming Trump for things that they fucked up on. Gregg Abbot and Ron DeSantis did not fuck up nearly as badly as Andrew Cuomo and Phil Murphy did despite running states that were just as large if not larger. @RunescapeIsGreat Ebola is a much much less contagious disease that is significantly easier to control than COVID. Florida did horribly and has continued to do horribly, they didn't even have a consistent statewide lockdown and left it up to a county by county basis. That's why it's one of the current major hotspots for infections in the world. Texas and Florida are both higher in terms of number of cases than New York despite New York being an early hotspot and Texas has more reported cases than California and a higher rate of death despite having 10 million less people. New York and California have also much more broadly focused on testing than Texas and Florida using the data I linked and rounding California issued 17 million, New York issued 13 Million, Texas has reported 8 Million and Florida has reported 6 million. Florida has a higher population than New York but has issued less than half of the amount of tests. Who cares about the number of cases? The only thing that matters is deaths and New York and New Jersey have a deaths per capita rate of around 1,800 per million people compared to about 700 for Florida and Texas. Massachusetts, Connecticut, and Rhode Island are also well above 1,000 deaths per million. I'd say they definitely fucked up worse than Texas and Florida did. |
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Ryuk9428 said: GamerDLM said: Florida did horribly and has continued to do horribly, they didn't even have a consistent statewide lockdown and left it up to a county by county basis. That's why it's one of the current major hotspots for infections in the world. Texas and Florida are both higher in terms of number of cases than New York despite New York being an early hotspot and Texas has more reported cases than California and a higher rate of death despite having 10 million less people. New York and California have also much more broadly focused on testing than Texas and Florida using the data I linked and rounding California issued 17 million, New York issued 13 Million, Texas has reported 8 Million and Florida has reported 6 million. Florida has a higher population than New York but has issued less than half of the amount of tests. Who cares about the number of cases? The only thing that matters is deaths and New York and New Jersey have a deaths per capita rate of around 1,800 per million people compared to about 700 for Florida and Texas. Massachusetts, Connecticut, and Rhode Island are also well above 1,000 deaths per million. I'd say they definitely fucked up worse than Texas and Florida did. Going based on number of deaths Texas is worse than the most populous state in the country but you said the governor is doing a much better job and their current projections are still stating they're going to be one of the worst states for deaths. New York was also notably hit first before any lockdown procedures were put in place and were actively overwhelmed due to the inability to prepare, Texas and Florida saw death spikes in August and have since decreased the amount of daily testing (not to mention we have reports of say Florida actively trying to fudge the data to make it seem like it's not as bad which also ties into their decreased testing). Controlling the spread is also a measure of active policy and if we look at New Jersey the projections for deaths have basically flatlined compared to say Georgia which has more cases and is expecting a comparable number of deaths by February at their current rate. |
GamerDLMOct 23, 2020 1:16 PM
Korishi said: in context he is saying that he takes responsibility for America but he cannot take responsibility for the original cause of deaths (China) because its inevitable that people will die, but Biden is attacking Trump for letting anyone die in the first place plus the accusation before was also out of context so it was a useless exchange. he should not say he takes full responsibility then if he will just blame china again for the deaths |
| Weird, I'm simultaneously watching Trump say why his admin won't move on talks with Pelosi ("Cause we don't want to reward badly run states economically and medically wise"), while reading the posts here. If one takes him at word all is good-- bad shouldn't be incentivized but then you break what he says down and compare to facts he says he knows and what he said makes no sense. -CA is economically the strongest state and for its population size is handling the state outbreak decently -Rewarding implies the admin can signoff on these funds to these state and local governments if they want to but are deciding not to..even tho all states paid into the federal tax system.. -The states experiencing spikes are also traditionally Red states like Texas, Georgia, Florida, North Dakota -Why make the states that need help the most, not get that help purposely when the virus is lethal and would lead to more preventable deaths? You'd save more lives if those states actually got the extra help by keeping average people funded through Winter as one benefit to point to.. Even if he would have won the night, its still weird that this was his defense to why stimulus-talks won't continue is cause he doesn't personally like the political leaders of a few states or cities, so the other hundreds of millions must suffer? And then the Mitch-led Senate threatens to drop the issue (they wouldn't dare) if the White House does more than whats on the table-- sick assholes. That's the tradeoff on American incrementalism, slow change at the cost of preventable deaths/longterm loss; its aka the long-defeat America. They (outside Pelosi) literally could have made this a double-package before and after the election to remedy political career fears. |
| "In the end the World really doesn't need a Superman. Just a Brave one" |
| About 25 minutes in so far and this moderator is SO much better than the last. She actually let's them speak ffs. |
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You mean big Fucking oil companies won't continue to FUCK the American citizenship up their asses?! OH NOES!!! Well....I guess I WILL vote for the Racist Cheetoh and the party who collectively HATE someone like me (a minority from the working class). Jesus Christ....imagine actually defending big oil and fracking companies. Just imagine it! |
| Even putting Trump aside...putting all his craziness aside. Imagine being part of the Working class and voting for ANYONE with an "R" next to their name. And let me tell you people right now...ALL of you are "Working Class" unless you make 6 figures. Imagine going to work for a company you don't really care about, working hard, just to make enough to stay above water...and then voting for the party that ONLY helps the people who are ABOVE you. And the funniest thing is IF you are "above water", consider yourself extremely lucky. Because then you have the "Working Poor"....people who work and are below water, who are one missed paycheck away from getting evicted or have to decide whether to pay the light bill or have enough to eat for the entire week. Here we are in the "Richest" country in the world....and we might as well be second class citizens because that's exactly how we're treated. And then you have literal KIDS on the internet who mooch off their parents making retarded memes about a man and his party who are responsible for the highest income inequality ever seen in this country. The amount of sheer ignorance and collective retardation that anyone who is in the "Working Class" must have is too much to bear. tl;dr Imagine being a chicken and voting for Colonel Sanders. |
SargonTheGreat said: Ah yes the working class democrats who just so happen to let companies import large amounts of cheap labor. You're joking, right? How many jobs did the Racist bring back from CHYNA (as he calls it)? NONE! How many of the pathetic morons in Pennsylvania and Michigan who voted for him lose their manufacturing jobs when they realized that the whole thing was a grift? TONS! And BTW, fuck the democrats....do not think for one second I am one of them, they are the lesser of two huge evils. One day, the GOP will literally cease to exist and the Democrats will the party of the "Right" and it will be a great day because MAYBE we'll finally have a REAL Leftist party that supports the Working class, that truly cares about your average citizen. |
| There is no party in America that cares whatsoever about the working class, research the history of Unions to find out how the working class has been betrayed constantly by American politicians, especially Democrats. |
GamerDLM said: Going based on number of deaths Texas is worse than the most populous state in the country but you said the governor is doing a much better job and their current projections are still stating they're going to be one of the worst states for deaths. New York was also notably hit first before any lockdown procedures were put in place and were actively overwhelmed due to the inability to prepare, Texas and Florida saw death spikes in August and have since decreased the amount of daily testing (not to mention we have reports of say Florida actively trying to fudge the data to make it seem like it's not as bad which also ties into their decreased testing). Controlling the spread is also a measure of active policy and if we look at New Jersey the projections for deaths have basically flatlined compared to say Georgia which has more cases and is expecting a comparable number of deaths by February at their current rate. We're not comparing Texas to California, we're comparing to New York, New Jersey, Massachusetts, Rhode Island, Connecticut. All complete disasters compared to Texas and Florida. The death counts in Texas and Florida are not particularly high compared to other states as there are 10 states worse than Florida in deaths per capita and 17 states worse than Texas. Silverstorm said: Weird, I'm simultaneously watching Trump say why his admin won't move on talks with Pelosi ("Cause we don't want to reward badly run states economically and medically wise"), while reading the posts here. If one takes him at word all is good-- bad shouldn't be incentivized but then you break what he says down and compare to facts he says he knows and what he said makes no sense. -CA is economically the strongest state and for its population size is handling the state outbreak decently -Rewarding implies the admin can signoff on these funds to these state and local governments if they want to but are deciding not to..even tho all states paid into the federal tax system.. -The states experiencing spikes are also traditionally Red states like Texas, Georgia, Florida, North Dakota -Why make the states that need help the most, not get that help purposely when the virus is lethal and would lead to more preventable deaths? You'd save more lives if those states actually got the extra help by keeping average people funded through Winter as one benefit to point to.. Even if he would have won the night, its still weird that this was his defense to why stimulus-talks won't continue is cause he doesn't personally like the political leaders of a few states or cities, so the other hundreds of millions must suffer? And then the Mitch-led Senate threatens to drop the issue (they wouldn't dare) if the White House does more than whats on the table-- sick assholes. That's the tradeoff on American incrementalism, slow change at the cost of preventable deaths/longterm loss; its aka the long-defeat America. They (outside Pelosi) literally could have made this a double-package before and after the election to remedy political career fears. California's "strong economy" is highly misleading. Yes people earn more "cash" in California than almost any other state but the cost of living there is unbearable. Take West Virginia for example, supposedly it is the most impoverished state in the US because of how many people there earn incomes below $25,000. But what that statistic doesn't tell you is that you only need about a $38,000 income to live in the typical house in West Virginia whereas in California you need a salary of $120,000 to live in the same house. https://howmuch.net/articles/salary-to-afford-the-average-home-in-your-state The average salary in California is $72,000 whereas the average salary in West Virginia is $44,000. So West Virginia's is lower, but what this means is that the average person in West Virginia makes more than is necessary to live in the average home there, whereas the average person in California makes significantly less money than you need to afford a home there. And that doesn't even account for the fact that Californians have to pay more taxes than people in red states do. Kyotosomo said: @Ryuk9428 Unfortunately it's always been that way as the American public has always been disgustingly uninformed when it comes to politics. Virtually every single election dating all the way back to the 1900s has been won by the candidate with the more likable personality (the person that the highest number of Americans would "most want to go drink a beer with" lol). To my knowledge the only two exceptions have been Jimmy Carter (because the country was mad about Nixon's watergate scandal) and Woodrow Wilson (because his first election multiple Conservative candidates split the vote and his second election the country didn't want to switch presidents in the middle of a World War). There may be others but from the data / surveys from these time periods I've seen those are the only two big exceptions. If Americans were properly educated on civics and economics we would be living in a vastly different country no doubt about that. At this point I wonder if it even matters. Part of the problem is natural stupidity but I'd say an even bigger problem than natural stupidity is intentional stupidity. There's too many people out there who glorify stupidity, disavowing intelligence as "pretentious" or "snobby." They act as if their inability to understand the bigger picture of life is some kind of virtue. They brag about not voting based on policy or ideology but rather on "which candidate I like more" because they want to show off their disengagement from politics and uninformed nature believing it to be virtuous. Hoping you will infer from that that they are so busy living their lives they don't have time to care about politics. What they are really saying though is that they are too dumb to understand how politics effects them. They are too dumb to understand how their actions and mindset effects the environment around them. And when you try to point it out to them they act self-righteous about their inability to understand. It is absolutely maddening to try and talk to these people sometimes. It literally feels like talking to the human equivalent of a brick wall. In-fact, its easier to talk to a brick wall because I can at least anthropomorphize the brick wall as an intelligent contributor who can point out the flaws in my thought process or serve as the second voice to my opinions. |
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Ryuk9428 said: GamerDLM said: Going based on number of deaths Texas is worse than the most populous state in the country but you said the governor is doing a much better job and their current projections are still stating they're going to be one of the worst states for deaths. New York was also notably hit first before any lockdown procedures were put in place and were actively overwhelmed due to the inability to prepare, Texas and Florida saw death spikes in August and have since decreased the amount of daily testing (not to mention we have reports of say Florida actively trying to fudge the data to make it seem like it's not as bad which also ties into their decreased testing). Controlling the spread is also a measure of active policy and if we look at New Jersey the projections for deaths have basically flatlined compared to say Georgia which has more cases and is expecting a comparable number of deaths by February at their current rate. We're not comparing Texas to California, we're comparing to New York, New Jersey, Massachusetts, Rhode Island, Connecticut. All complete disasters compared to Texas and Florida. The death counts in Texas and Florida are not particularly high compared to other states as there are 10 states worse than Florida in deaths per capita and 17 states worse than Texas. Except as I stated New York and New Jersey were at the epicenter at the start of the pandemic prior to lockdowns being in place, they didn't have nearly the preparations for medical provisions or the general information about the virus at that time and have since vastly improved their projections for deaths and limiting the spread. Texas and Florida saw huge spikes in the fall despite having plenty of time for preparations and have actively been trying to hide the data. Florida in particular has been called out for having a notable spike in pneumonia and influenza deaths in March. As well as their decrease in testing following the death spike shows that deaths are being directly correlated with testing and further reinforces the measure that they are misattributing deaths to downplay the effects of the pandemic in these states. You're also continuing to ignore the current projections for these states. For example Massachusetts and New Hampshire are currently projected to be the worst states based on per capita deaths per 100k. Also that you're still ignoring the fact that the rate of spreading the virus is a major factor in a pandemic and a serious measure of policy implementation. Things that these 2 states have objectively failed on compared to New York and New Jersey and that's even with their attempts to reduce testing. |
GamerDLM said: Ryuk9428 said: We're not comparing Texas to California, we're comparing to New York, New Jersey, Massachusetts, Rhode Island, Connecticut. All complete disasters compared to Texas and Florida. The death counts in Texas and Florida are not particularly high compared to other states as there are 10 states worse than Florida in deaths per capita and 17 states worse than Texas. Except as I stated New York and New Jersey were at the epicenter at the start of the pandemic prior to lockdowns being in place, they didn't have nearly the preparations for medical provisions or the general information about the virus at that time and have since vastly improved their projections for deaths and limiting the spread. Texas and Florida saw huge spikes in the fall despite having plenty of time for preparations and have actively been trying to hide the data. Florida in particular has been called out for having a notable spike in pneumonia and influenza deaths in March. As well as their decrease in testing following the death spike shows that deaths are being directly correlated with testing and further reinforces the measure that they are misattributing deaths to downplay the effects of the pandemic in these states. You're also continuing to ignore the current projections for these states. For example Massachusetts and New Hampshire are currently projected to be the worst states based on per capita deaths per 100k. Also that you're still ignoring the fact that the rate of spreading the virus is a major factor in a pandemic and a serious measure of policy implementation. Things that these 2 states have objectively failed on compared to New York and New Jersey and that's even with their attempts to reduce testing. Well I've also heard reports that 30% of the recorded deaths at this point are fake. If you died of a heart attack but happened to have COVID in your system they call it a COVID death. Florida for example has inflated their death toll by 10%. https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/house-report-says-floridas-covid-19-death-toll-inflated-by-10-25/ar-BB1a48pa |
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| Trump never actually answered any of the questions, he just kept rambling about how everything's gonna be fine and how amazing he is. I don't know about Biden's competence completely but you'd have to be a Southern American dipshit or braindead to ignore the fact that he is clearly better. |
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| So glad I don't live in a shitty red state. |
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Ryuk9428 said: GamerDLM said: Except as I stated New York and New Jersey were at the epicenter at the start of the pandemic prior to lockdowns being in place, they didn't have nearly the preparations for medical provisions or the general information about the virus at that time and have since vastly improved their projections for deaths and limiting the spread. Texas and Florida saw huge spikes in the fall despite having plenty of time for preparations and have actively been trying to hide the data. Florida in particular has been called out for having a notable spike in pneumonia and influenza deaths in March. As well as their decrease in testing following the death spike shows that deaths are being directly correlated with testing and further reinforces the measure that they are misattributing deaths to downplay the effects of the pandemic in these states. You're also continuing to ignore the current projections for these states. For example Massachusetts and New Hampshire are currently projected to be the worst states based on per capita deaths per 100k. Also that you're still ignoring the fact that the rate of spreading the virus is a major factor in a pandemic and a serious measure of policy implementation. Things that these 2 states have objectively failed on compared to New York and New Jersey and that's even with their attempts to reduce testing. Well I've also heard reports that 30% of the recorded deaths at this point are fake. If you died of a heart attack but happened to have COVID in your system they call it a COVID death. Florida for example has inflated their death toll by 10%. https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/house-report-says-floridas-covid-19-death-toll-inflated-by-10-25/ar-BB1a48pa That's literally an example of Florida trying to downplay deaths. Pretty much the entire report is based purely on speculation about the medical examiners experience and effectively complains at how the CDC categorizes the virus as a factor. But that would also mean that the categorization is the same for all states except Florida disagrees because they want to cut the death count by at least 10%. It's also worth noting, in regards to the virus a consistently reported major effect is damage to blood vessels which would be directly related to heart conditions. Their entire speculation, as you summarized it, hinges on the idea that a disease that has been known to effect blood vessels and blood flow has no influence on a person dying to heart complications. All while undercutting the credibility of medical examiners for political purposes. |
GamerDLMOct 24, 2020 1:50 AM
| Even though Biden won debate and crushed Trump that isn't going to change anything, ignorant people are still gonna vote for Trump they don't care about reason and logic. https://www.politico.com/news/2020/10/23/poll-final-presidential-debate-biden-trump-432052 https://edition.cnn.com/2020/10/22/politics/cnn-poll-final-presidential-debate/index.html |
  Never explain, Never retract, Never apologize Just get the thing done And let them howl |
| @AnimeFeminist Just as ignorant people will vote for Biden. What specifically would Biden have done differently that would have stopped the spread of Corona? Here he is for shutting down the country. https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/22/politics/biden-coronavirus-shutdown/index.html But here he isn't. https://www.businessinsider.com/biden-shut-down-the-virus-not-the-country-2020-10 He did the same thing during the debate in regards to energy and fossil fuels. Promised eliminating emissions by 2025, but his plan says by 2035. The US energy sector said that would be impossible to do without big breakthroughs in technology. As far was Biden not being racist, i'm not so sure about that. He's on the record of supporting matters in racial segregation. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/nbcblk/joe-biden-didn-t-just-compromise-segregationists-he-fought-their-n1021626 Even Kamala Harris brought up that issue during democratic nominee selection process. But now she is his running mate. Also the same guy that eulogized a racist scumbag. He wasn't a KKK grand wizard like the article states, but he was an organizer and recruiter; a top officer in his local clan. https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-factcheck-byrd-eulogy-biden-kkk-grand/fact-checkrobert-byrdeulogized-by-joe-bidenat-funeralwas-notkkkgrandwizard-idUSKBN26S2EE Those are enough red flags for me and there are plenty more. |
SolidusSmoke said: @AnimeFeminist Just as ignorant people will vote for Biden. What specifically would Biden have done differently that would have stopped the spread of Corona? He probably wouldn't have spent 4 years spreading his demon semen to every corner of the Earth calling the fucking wrath of God down upon us. |
| I CELEBRATE myself, And what I assume you shall assume, For every atom belonging to me as good belongs to you. |
Ryuk9428 said: I think I'll just focus on your claims I bolded in this reply. The other portion is accurate and that is called buying power, but neglects the causes. You say their economy being "highly misleading" seems somewhat false, I can split with the difference and agree with you it is somewhat misleading but in terms of states in the union and territories it is regardless, dominant. According to one main source of measurement to justify its top 10 placement, they claim to be the sixth economy in the world, this measurement doesn't take into account the issues you mention but there are ones that do. When adjusted, they are still within the range of world economies compared to the other states, and competitive to other states of size like Texas in the amount of industries within the state (CA has Hollywood and Tech, TX has Construction and Oil). You are correct though about cost-of-living, then again, somewhat false as I'll explain below. California's "strong economy" is highly misleading. Yes people earn more "cash" in California than almost any other state but the cost of living there is unbearable. Take West Virginia for example, supposedly it is the most impoverished state in the US because of how many people there earn incomes below $25,000. But what that statistic doesn't tell you is that you only need about a $38,000 income to live in the typical house in West Virginia whereas in California you need a salary of $120,000 to live in the same house. https://howmuch.net/articles/salary-to-afford-the-average-home-in-your-state The average salary in California is $72,000 whereas the average salary in West Virginia is $44,000. So West Virginia's is lower, but what this means is that the average person in West Virginia makes more than is necessary to live in the average home there, whereas the average person in California makes significantly less money than you need to afford a home there. And that doesn't even account for the fact that Californians have to pay more taxes than people in red states do. The next part is the cost of living being unbearable, but this was vague cause you didn't say for who, so I answer for all. Like other states that hold large populations that contain excessively high earners, theres a correlation between regulation and size, so CA is not alone in regulations and doesn't fully explain the issue. There are trends showing inequality looks different for these states (ie NY, CA, TX, FL) cause of the size of industries and population in them. What makes the distinctions between each is the diversity of industries in the state as well as the policies each utilize to pushback on inequality (social programs). This doesn't mean you're outright wrong, just changing reality a bit. The state has issues it needs to deal with but is it unbearable or is their economy being strong "highly misleading"? No, I think you're toeing the line of misleading as well. More to the point: Does their economic rating justify denying them aid? Was your reply to my post offhandedly try to justify the White House denying legislation that would help maintain the economy as all states see a rise in their cases (meaning tighter restrictions--limiting economy), keep people from homelessness during a pandemic and help the Union? |
SilverstormOct 24, 2020 6:10 PM
| "In the end the World really doesn't need a Superman. Just a Brave one" |
Silverstorm said: Ryuk9428 said: I think I'll just focus on your claims I bolded in this reply. The other portion is accurate and that is called buying power, but neglects the causes. You say their economy being "highly misleading" seems somewhat false, I can split with the difference and agree with you it is somewhat misleading but in terms of states in the union and territories it is regardless, dominant. According to one main source of measurement to justify its top 10 placement, they claim to be the sixth economy in the world, this measurement doesn't take into account the issues you mention but there are ones that do. When adjusted, they are still within the range of world economies compared to the other states, and competitive to other states of size like Texas in the amount of industries within the state (CA has Hollywood and Tech, TX has Construction and Oil). You are correct though about cost-of-living, then again, somewhat false as I'll explain below. California's "strong economy" is highly misleading. Yes people earn more "cash" in California than almost any other state but the cost of living there is unbearable. Take West Virginia for example, supposedly it is the most impoverished state in the US because of how many people there earn incomes below $25,000. But what that statistic doesn't tell you is that you only need about a $38,000 income to live in the typical house in West Virginia whereas in California you need a salary of $120,000 to live in the same house. https://howmuch.net/articles/salary-to-afford-the-average-home-in-your-state The average salary in California is $72,000 whereas the average salary in West Virginia is $44,000. So West Virginia's is lower, but what this means is that the average person in West Virginia makes more than is necessary to live in the average home there, whereas the average person in California makes significantly less money than you need to afford a home there. And that doesn't even account for the fact that Californians have to pay more taxes than people in red states do. The next part is the cost of living being unbearable, but this was vague cause you didn't say for who, so I answer for all. Like other states that hold large populations that contain excessively high earners, theres a correlation between regulation and size, so CA is not alone in regulations and doesn't fully explain the issue. There are trends showing inequality looks different for these states (ie NY, CA, TX, FL) cause of the size of industries and population in them. What makes the distinctions between each is the diversity of industries in the state as well as the policies each utilize to pushback on inequality (social programs). This doesn't mean you're outright wrong, just changing reality a bit. The state has issues it needs to deal with but is it unbearable or is their economy being strong "highly misleading"? No, I think you're toeing the line of misleading as well. More to the point: Does their economic rating justify denying them aid? Was your reply to my post offhandedly try to justify the White House denying legislation that would help maintain the economy as all states see a rise in their cases (meaning tighter restrictions--limiting economy), keep people from homelessness during a pandemic and help the Union? "According to one main source of measurement to justify its top 10 placement, they claim to be the sixth economy in the world" So California is the 6th largest economy in the world, yet has worse living standards than Scotland, Wales, England, Iceland, Denmark, Iceland, Sweden, Norway, Germany, Austria, Netherlands, Switzerland, France and Belgium. California is a large economy in the same way India and China is, large parts of the state are a slum, where there is massive wealthy inequality. California had great living standards before the 1980s. |
RuneRemOct 24, 2020 6:58 PM
| @RunescapeIsGreat Kinda the opposite "the higher the standard of living, the more expensive it will cost individuals to maintain, or even measure up to the standard. Costs of living are the expenses of things in the geographic region people reside and purchase within" Though I will also concede those analogies could be quick examples to get a point across but are misleading as China's housing issues are entirely different in nature to CA (imminent domain) and India has no strong central authority on any of its governmental levels. |
| "In the end the World really doesn't need a Superman. Just a Brave one" |
| and I thought the presidential debate in my country was bad. |
RunescapeIsGreat said: Silverstorm said: I think I'll just focus on your claims I bolded in this reply. The other portion is accurate and that is called buying power, but neglects the causes. You say their economy being "highly misleading" seems somewhat false, I can split with the difference and agree with you it is somewhat misleading but in terms of states in the union and territories it is regardless, dominant. According to one main source of measurement to justify its top 10 placement, they claim to be the sixth economy in the world, this measurement doesn't take into account the issues you mention but there are ones that do. When adjusted, they are still within the range of world economies compared to the other states, and competitive to other states of size like Texas in the amount of industries within the state (CA has Hollywood and Tech, TX has Construction and Oil). You are correct though about cost-of-living, then again, somewhat false as I'll explain below. The next part is the cost of living being unbearable, but this was vague cause you didn't say for who, so I answer for all. Like other states that hold large populations that contain excessively high earners, theres a correlation between regulation and size, so CA is not alone in regulations and doesn't fully explain the issue. There are trends showing inequality looks different for these states (ie NY, CA, TX, FL) cause of the size of industries and population in them. What makes the distinctions between each is the diversity of industries in the state as well as the policies each utilize to pushback on inequality (social programs). This doesn't mean you're outright wrong, just changing reality a bit. The state has issues it needs to deal with but is it unbearable or is their economy being strong "highly misleading"? No, I think you're toeing the line of misleading as well. More to the point: Does their economic rating justify denying them aid? Was your reply to my post offhandedly try to justify the White House denying legislation that would help maintain the economy as all states see a rise in their cases (meaning tighter restrictions--limiting economy), keep people from homelessness during a pandemic and help the Union? "According to one main source of measurement to justify its top 10 placement, they claim to be the sixth economy in the world" So California is the 6th largest economy in the world, yet has worse living standards than Scotland, Wales, England, Iceland, Denmark, Iceland, Sweden, Norway, Germany, Austria, Netherlands, Switzerland, France and Belgium. California is a large economy in the same way India and China is, large parts of the state are a slum, where there is massive wealthy inequality. California had great living standards before the 1980s. California is a shithole filled with homelessness you could never imagine. It's like $1800 for a 1 bedroom apartment in a decent neighborhood. There is a reason why people are leaving it in droves. The budget is out of control and of course they don't reign in the protesting thugs. Did you hear about the two officers that were shot while sitting in their patrol cars for no reason..? That's just good ol' California for you. |
 |
| Who built the cages, Joe? "Dark winter" oooh so scary. Meh! Pretty standard debate... meaning it was far less entertaining then I had hoped. Biden looked... kinda tired. Trump did a good job (finally) saying what he has done on covid19. Biden said he would do stuff that Trump already did. Biden at one point had a line about knowing their "character" and who tells the truth. I know Biden is a career liar... politician... liar... a "fake" Catholic because he supports killing children by abortion. Sorry Joe, Catholics do not support abortion ever. You're a fraud! Biden was just a rambling old man who's plan amounts to unrealistic wishful thinking while still maintaining a theme of doom and gloom. Trump touted what he has already done and will continue to do with a positive, realistic, and can-do attitude. If you want success, vote Trump. If you want doom and gloom, vote Biden. The moderator kept rudely talking over Trump. The mod was less bad than the others, but still managed to be the loser of the debate. |
  |
BurntJelly said: Nah, Biden is registered baptized in the Catholic Church as well as not being ex-communed. On top of the fact there are many practicing Catholics that don't believe in directly funding or performing abortion but support it civically, economically and medically. So not sure if this was just a attack on Grandpa-Top Gun Biden at one point had a line about knowing their "character" and who tells the truth. I know Biden is a career liar... politician... liar... a "fake" Catholic because he supports killing children by abortion. Sorry Joe, Catholics do not support abortion ever. You're a fraud! Trump touted what he has already done and will continue to do with a positive, realistic, and can-do attitude. And what significant thing has Trump already done for Covid19? I mean, research has shown he is the biggest detractor to fighting it with misleading or outright spreading untrue things about the virus helping it to spread. His own Head of Staff says they don't have a handle, and Trump himself has stalled his own "negotiations" to stimulate the economy. If he made strides, he then made steps to reduce the impact of his own Administration's help. Biden was right about Swine Flu during the admin he was in "they didn't need to shut the economy down"; I need to understand how you see reality, which is why I'm asking these questions |
| "In the end the World really doesn't need a Superman. Just a Brave one" |
Silverstorm said: If you are interested in the topic: https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/cardinal-burke-biden-should-not-receive-holy-communion-15439BurntJelly said: Nah, Biden is registered baptized in the Catholic Church as well as not being ex-communed. On top of the fact there are many practicing Catholics that don't believe in directly funding or performing abortion but support it civically, economically and medically. So not sure if this was just a attack on Grandpa-Top Gun Biden at one point had a line about knowing their "character" and who tells the truth. I know Biden is a career liar... politician... liar... a "fake" Catholic because he supports killing children by abortion. Sorry Joe, Catholics do not support abortion ever. You're a fraud! Trump touted what he has already done and will continue to do with a positive, realistic, and can-do attitude. Edit: I am Catholic so i get offended by politicians like this. And what significant thing has Trump already done for Covid19? The sensationalist media has been misquoting and misrepresenting things Trump has said for 4 years. They have continued to do that to try to make Trump "look bad". I've watched the task force briefings online because the TV stations stopped carrying them. I'll take my information first hand before the media (left or right) have a chance to distort it.I mean, research has shown he is the biggest detractor to fighting it with misleading or outright spreading untrue things about the virus helping it to spread. His own Head of Staff says they don't have a handle, and Trump himself has stalled his own "negotiations" to stimulate the economy. If he made strides, he then made steps to reduce the impact of his own Administration's help. Biden was right about Swine Flu during the admin he was in "they didn't need to shut the economy down"; I need to understand how you see reality, which is why I'm asking these questions I think the timing of the lockdowns as well as re-opening has been appropriate and practical (not trying to force a one-size-fits-all solution on the entire country) given what was known at the time about the virus. Operation Warp Speed seems to be coming to fruition. Respirators, we got those built. Got extra hospital space for New York. Not needing it was a good thing. Lots of tests/capacity. Do we need more? I'm not sure we do. What about now? We know those primarily at risk are elderly with underlying health conditions. The death rate is down compared with earlier in the year. We have treatments now that increase the chance of survival. There is little reason to not open up the economy. We continue social distancing and wearing masks to try to keep the spread of the virus down. I'm not going to claim everything was perfect. That's impossible. I just think that the response was overall "good" given the information known at the time. Looking back with what we know now is only useful to plan for next time. |
BurntJellyOct 27, 2020 6:35 PM
|
| @BurntJelly Thank you for taking the time to clarify and I understand your positions more. I can only say I highly disagree with most of what you said; mainly statistics, absolute numbers and comparative studies disprove Trump "controlled" the virus in an effective manner. The fact their is no consistency between states has allowed the virus to continue surging, while internal issues have led to back-forth information from even the CDC. The Biden part doesn't prove he isn't Catholic-- that was an opinion by a cardinal known to be opposed to the Pope. And if the Pope considers Biden Catholic, and the former Vice President actively wears a rosary, then that is what he is. I do appreciate and agree the media does spin stories and sensationalize moments and events, but it does not lead to mean Trump handled things imo based on the fact the virus is still expected to tear through the union and the President is encouraging large group gatherings while simultaneously denying stimulus negotiations. |
| "In the end the World really doesn't need a Superman. Just a Brave one" |
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