Do you like weak MCs?
| pfft no, I don't really like MC's that start off weak, idgaf if they're OP or not. Unless it's a case where I don't like the MC and want them to lose then yea the weaker the better |
 'On-Hold' is another way for a completionist to say 'Dropped' |
| Lower they are the more they can rise. |
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| No, no I do not. Action is fun when its unpredictable and there is no plot armor. When protagonist is some weakling and braindead like Luffy, you for sure know what will happen and I just do not care. Especially with its overblown drama. Katanagatari started with the strong protagonist and it has an amazing action. |
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Gythia said: N1eR said: Ok sure, but I'm pretty sure all 4 MC of HxH are in the same boat as Luffy when it comes to power level in their respective series, and Gon in "braindeadness" too. And that managed to get on your favorites..Action is fun when its unpredictable and there is no plot armor. When protagonist is some weakling and braindead like Luffy, you for sure know what will happen and I just do not care. Gon was never braindead. Maybe in social interactions, at best... but even then he was tolerable. Luffy is just too over-the-top. And I thought it was a common sense, that HxH was starting with tropes and then subverting them... (thus not being predictable... Fuck Election arc tho). Also, you are not really weak in HxH (cuz none cracks fucking mountains with their heads). You can beat most of the people if you are smarter than them... So yeah, that managed to get on my favorites list. What's the problem, again? |
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| I absolutely fucking hate weak protagonists. not because they are but because it always goes like this: does something fucking amazing as an eyecatch in the first ep the show passes without the guy doing anything like that again because he's the weak archetype loser then does something cool again to wrap up the season. so 10 out of 12 episodes I was robbed from cool stuff happening because "he's weak". |
| 馬鹿げた倫理 全部ガラクタで |
| Meh, I care more about the MC's personality and character development. But I do like watching them get stronger over the course of the series, so yeah they're not bad. It of course all comes down to how they're executed in the end. Deku's my favorite MC of this type. |
 'nom' |
| I am kinda neutral but I find weak MCs annoying sometimes especially if they are mentally weak. |
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| I like Setsuna more than Kira. That should explain it. But personally my favourites are never wimps or babies*. I can never put Deku at the same level as Eren for instance despite of both starting off annoying. But personalities are also important. For example I liked Armin more than Bakugo. Is there anyone who likes Bakugo? Send them over to me. Needs some one on one teaching. *Simon is an exception. Usually my faves are already strong. Gintoki for one was known as the White Demon before he turned into a bumpkin. The only protagonist I know with no power ups. I mean he practically longed for Kamehame ha or Bankai. O_o |
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Gythia said: @N1eR TL;DR, there's no problem. I'm just saying that it's pretty funny how HxH got into your favorites while One Piece got a 3 despite them both being pretty similar manga/anime. show me human interactions of Luffy what tropes did it subvert? Because I clearly see how Luffy is winning his battles just by screaming louder than his enemies. giving birth to boring common tropes? hmm... do tell what interesting tropes did it give birth, I am listening As I sad, MOST of the people. And now you are bringing inhumane people, who were there for one arc... Leorio can hurt Ging, who is basically is a god-tier among humans now. Netero could not hurt Meruem, by your logic. Even post-time skip Luffy would have been obliterated by Flamingo, if not plot armor. They can't crack mountains? You sure? I think you forgot the Dresrosa arc... also Funny is that you are picking on HxH, when I clearly took Katanagatari as an example of protagonist. which means, protagonists are not a major reason of it being in my favorites list. I am not sure about them being that similar. Can you bring 5-10 substantial similarities? |
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| Not really, sometimes i hate MCs who starts weak and naive (just like typical shounen MCs) but i do have a tolerance for those who have a good development, like Eren i used to hate him, after he got drastic development in the manga now he is one of my favorites MC in any manga/anime i've ever known |
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| For me it depends on how they get stronger rather than how they start. I hate when their developments are painfully slow. Both Eren and Deku starts with nothing but while Eren had some solid development in 3 seasons of airing, Deku's still struggling not to break his bones, geez he realised his legs existed in 3rd season! I also hate random sudden power-ups. |
| If you read Eleceed you're automatically my friend. |
| not only weak but I also hope I can see more mc with not likable attitude like Subaru from Re:zero. So I can hope the change / development for the character in future arc. |
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In Katanagatari execution was key. Don't wanna talk about the protagonist in case I ruin the story for someone else. Gon was disgustingly childish. Last episodes in particular. Ew. Luffy is childish but in a different manner, a lot more tolerable than the other piece of G*n. I guess you see Luffy as a "scream to win" kind of character. I don't. Sujective topics end in "let's agree to disagree". PS! What the hell do you mean by "Show me human interactions of Luffy" because I'm interpreting it as a stupid question so before I assume I want to hear you elaborate your question further, with less ambiguous details. (Unless it really was just too stupid of a question) |
| If they start out weak but as the series goes on, the progressively gets stronger and is able to hold his own against the more powerful enemies, of course. If they start out weak and stays weak......no. Can't list any examples off the top of my head though. |
cHowaito said: In Katanagatari execution was key. Don't wanna talk about the protagonist in case I ruin the story for someone else. Gon was disgustingly childish. Last episodes in particular. Ew. Luffy is childish but in a different manner, a lot more tolerable than the other piece of G*n. I guess you see Luffy as a "scream to win" kind of character. I don't. Sujective topics end in "let's agree to disagree". PS! What the hell do you mean by "Show me human interactions of Luffy" because I'm interpreting it as a stupid question so before I assume I want to hear you elaborate your question further, with less ambiguous details. (Unless it really was just too stupid of a question) Just because you say so, of course. Here, I will elaborate |
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| no i prefer op mcs not weaklings who cry all the time and somehow manages to get strong while annoying me during most of the series bleh |
| I like to see growth usually, especially with younger characters. Rurouni Kenshin well... was quite the best all along, and there wasn't growing as much emotional conflict if I remember right. Someone can be a good fighter or whatever, but still get to new realizations about him\herself, which also can be interesting. But those who have life of pancakes... nah. |
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Humans around you may be really weird. By human interactions I meant the scenes that are grounded instead of being over-the-top. There is nothing human in threatening Yonkou there. That's just way to reckless. Who the hell repeats "I refuse" several times for no reason? And there are tons of comic relief in a supposedly serious scene. So obnoxious... No human would care about such aDvEnTuRe. What kind of argument was that, lol. It still wound have been an adventure, even if he knew some more info. And anyone would have been able to come up with random excuses to have an adventure. "But noooooo, lets refuse to get new information like a braindead monkey I am." Thanks for providing stuff anyway. Not like certain thing who quoted me previously. But did not you see "bottom of the food chain"? Meaning that you were talking about the INTRODUCTION arcs. Cuz these videos are from the second half. Well, it would not have been a discussion if I searched it by myself. Not to mention that I have already read big chunk of OP. -WHAT?! There is a single path in ONE PIECE?! the hell... and there are no random disconnected unknown places?! How is it an adventure then? why plot is not moving then? Why do we have close to zero information about politics then?! Oh, right, cuz story has no path and its just bunch of random nonsense. -Done well?! Like, random boat randomly having a brain and moving on his own?! -There was a flashback of power up in the middle of a fight vs. Flamingo. Are you really talking about OP, or just trolling? -900 chapters of hints... amazing... what did it subvert, anyway? -Every author has planned ending and they always tweak it mid-way. Whats so special about Oda? -Info dumps are good there? why?! I dropped series because of how awful the artwork and info dumps were. It was like he was putting in chapters as much things as much he could and they were just mishmashed -die? I don't recall such things. Maybe only in flashbacks. -Luffy? gray? how?! also, OP is far from being innovative in this case. -whats amazoness is supposed to mean? -how did OP give birth to it? -booooring... who cares... also, Haki. Also, powers in JoJo came from the arrow... there will be other cases as well, I am pretty sure. So no innovation for OP. -what world building? He is just dropping random islands and hardly ever connects them. Also, Saint Seiya, DB, Nausicaa and probably bunch of other stuff were earlier. -Every story has such themes, they just do not explore them. OP is not exploring themes. -??? Netero is human and there are other such humans. Maha, for example. "Caught off guard" lol, really? Adds to my point of having a brain. Also, Ging DID expect it and even reacted to it, but did not do anything, cuz of manga spoilers. Point was - hurting itself. You literally can't catch whitebeard off-guard. He has haki and thus expects movements of yours. Heck, he probably expects movements while being asleep. Why he did not block that attack? And even with that cut, he did shit on whole Marinford. Sure it hurt. and did that power up do anything important, lol? idk whats your point. Law was being cut and thrown around for around 50 chapters there and nothing happened to him. Flamingo was just walking towards luffy for minutes, before he woke up or something. Bullshit action. I meant the guy who went for Luffy, on that arena. He did have flashback of cutting island in half or something. "I would say" is not an argument". Have this one https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:KobsterHope07/Enel%27s_Island_Busting_Raigou_(Redux) "you said that one of the major reason you hated and dropped One Piece was because of the MC" where did I say that? I don't really recall a single thing that I like about One Piece NOW. Why only MC? "Obviously what I meant was when talking about both series in general. "Critically acclaimed Weekly Shounen Jump adventure/battle series that started in the late 90s." " That's very superficial. I like some adventure"battle series and dislike some. |
MitakaFamiNov 16, 2019 7:00 AM
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| Weak pussies suck, OP protags for life |
| I'm fine as long as it's executed well. I have no particular fancies or aversions to a weak protagonist in an action series, it depends where the story takes it. |
Gythia said: N1eR said: Ok sure, but I'm pretty sure all 4 MC of HxH are in the same boat as Luffy when it comes to power level in their respective series, and Gon in "braindeadness" too. And that managed to get on your favorites..Action is fun when its unpredictable and there is no plot armor. When protagonist is some weakling and braindead like Luffy, you for sure know what will happen and I just do not care. Outside of his fight against pitou all of gon's fight involve him trying to beat a stronger opponent throught tricks and quick thinking great examples of that are him against hisoka in heaven's arena, versus genthru and the volley ball match in greed island. I don't know if you were watching a different show or what but in term of fighting gon is the opposite of braindead. On the same note I wouldn't call luffy braindead either but it's clear oda and togashi have complete different methods at approaching a fight. |
| You've answered pretty much as I would have. I like those MC's that have room to grow, because it's watching them improve over time that is satisfying as the audience. Those MC's that start off strong don't have as much room for growth, whereas those MC's that start off weaker have much greater capacity to grow and improve. A really good comparative example would be Asta & Yuno from Black Clover. The story centres around Asta because he starts off from a weak position, whereas Yuno appears to be a prodigy from the start & is treated as such. If the story followed only Yuno I don't think it would be anywhere near as good & the audience wouldn't empathise with him as much as they with Asta now after watching him go through hell to get where he is now. |
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Sorry to jump in again but most of the tropes you're attributing to OP here are more staff that it has done better than naruto or bleach instead of things he created or subverted since many other shounen jump titles have done the same thing before it and sometimes better Characters staying dead: jojo, city hunter, hokuto no ken Powerful MCs at the start of the story: yusuke uramishi, ryo saeba, goku and let's not even talk about kenshiro or kenshin himura Moraly gray MC: Ryo saeba, cobra, the girls in cat's eyes and even giorno giovanna can be considered morally gray Great world building: Naruto and DB actually have pretty good world building and rurouni kenshin has a great depiction of meiji era japan Goku's SS transformation was a great use of the power of friendship, was foreshadowed throughout the arc and didn't use any form of flashback As for real life themes being explored, city hunter explored post war guilt, police and government corruption, organized crime and terrorrism, and ashita no joe was forced into an early ending because of how politicaly controversial it was becoming. One piece does a lot of great things and may even seem revolutionary compared to some of its contemporaries but in the larger shounen history it isn't really that great of a pioneer |
I know that it makes sense. I was just talking about how it was handled. But it is not "our today" in their universe. If treasure is just an excuse, then it can be discarded and replaced easily. Dunno, I get more interested if I know interesting stuff about the series beforehand. (I spoiled myself almost fully about Houseki no Kuni and started reading it, because I got engaged by spoilers alone and its one of my favorite stories in fiction) IDK, being motivated without any motivation is inhumane to me D: It may be okay for a child, but I am not sure, kids usually jump from one goal to another. Coby was fine, tho. Have not moved at the time when I dropped it... New generation went to Kaido and got beaten, that's progress I guess... Politics do not affect anything?! Hmm... pretty sure Robin's arc was about politics... Marinford and these death scenes... Revolution.... etc... Random nonsense comes up ---> gives little hints ---> then you praise it for being well thought out. Count it as good if you wish. Melodramatic asspull is bad to me. But okay, I am not against it being fine in nakama-department Not law's. Luffy had flashback just right when he used (or was about to use it) his last gear, I think. My point was, that when you think about 900 chapters of it, hints are the only "plot" that comes to mind. Yeah, yeah, that's good and all, but I would rather have plot from get-go, then after 900 chapters of hinting. Sure, Sanji was hinted, but it did not lead to anything much. Ravages of Time does plot and foreshadowing way better. If it is a mystery, then it should not be telling. Why are you hinting if you want to info-dump? We will experience it just fine. I liked it 5 years ago, thus why I was reading/watching it. Pre-ts, fair enough. They were not fleshed out enough to care about them, though. Post-ts... very forgettable. Such death scenes can even be found in Fairy Tail. (FAIRY TAIL of all things) Does not care? That's very hard to believe with just one example. And even then, it was a middle of war, you can't just start crying for someone. With Ace's death war basically ended for him. Others are bad guys? Why? Comic relief is the only negative thing I can recall about them. Pretty sure such tropes (amazoness, that is) can be found in older stories, as it is originated from somewhere else. And even if not, nobody cares about it. Also, subversion means criticism. What did it criticize? who has not beaten their first villains? also,popularized ? why does that matter. If anything, that means that its easy to copy... and I do not think amazoness (and maybe even other stuff you listed) are common in its genre. I asked in a sense, that whether if its interesting. HxH, for instance, criticized nakama-power itself. That has so much novelty alone... I do not care about that. Story should be about STORY. He just puts that details of geography and other irrelevant and boring stuff, but does not connect them enough (if at all) to care about it. That's most important part of world-building and story-telling in general. No, it just has that themes. You can't say that it is exploring it, while having one-dimensional opposing sides (Like, goverment, "higher race", etc...), who are just punching each other. Ignoring? Just like the manga itself? Did any of his nakamas blame him for it? Did he pay the price for it? ANYTHING?! No, because it was not treated as villanious act. Now compare it to Gon of Ant's arc. Does not matter what he was talking about, when that guy can sense danger of Ace (I mean, if he can sense someone else, he sure can have even better sense when he himself is in danger) even while being asleep. And yeah, he could block, thus having a brain is irrelevant in OP. Ging at least saw the punch with his own eyes Quite a lot? You mean, giving Luffy enough time to recover? And how can he recover so fast, when it takes DAYS to lose so much stamina in OP? (Akainu and Aokiji were fighting for 10 days). Why? Was that ice hollow inside? Point is, that Enel was one of the first villains and villains Post-TS are supposed to be way stronger than him. So, if Enel was not doing it easily, now we should have people who can easily do it. Whitebeard cracked Marinford and water/air around it, while being far from his prime years. Yes, but where is the dropping part? Because I clearly have not dropped it for a long time and if it took so much time, then I do not think it is justified to assume that I dropped it because of MC. hm... |
MitakaFamiNov 16, 2019 11:24 AM
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JoyBoy_316 said: Sorry to jump in again but most of the tropes you're attributing to OP here are more staff that it has done better than naruto or bleach instead of things he created or subverted since many other shounen jump titles have done the same thing before it and sometimes better Characters staying dead: jojo, city hunter, hokuto no ken Powerful MCs at the start of the story: yusuke uramishi, ryo saeba, goku and let's not even talk about kenshiro or kenshin himura Moraly gray MC: Ryo saeba, cobra, the girls in cat's eyes and even giorno giovanna can be considered morally gray Great world building: Naruto and DB actually have pretty good world building and rurouni kenshin has a great depiction of meiji era japan Goku's SS transformation was a great use of the power of friendship, was foreshadowed throughout the arc and didn't use any form of flashback As for real life themes being explored, city hunter explored post war guilt, police and government corruption, organized crime and terrorrism, and ashita no joe was forced into an early ending because of how politicaly controversial it was becoming. One piece does a lot of great things and may even seem revolutionary compared to some of its contemporaries but in the larger shounen history it isn't really that great of a pioneer Bastard has gray protagonist and I think its shonen in its first volumes (as it is cracking jokes about being shonen). So here we have another. |
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Jyoshiro said: cHowaito said: In Katanagatari execution was key. Don't wanna talk about the protagonist in case I ruin the story for someone else. Gon was disgustingly childish. Last episodes in particular. Ew. Luffy is childish but in a different manner, a lot more tolerable than the other piece of G*n. I guess you see Luffy as a "scream to win" kind of character. I don't. Sujective topics end in "let's agree to disagree". PS! What the hell do you mean by "Show me human interactions of Luffy" because I'm interpreting it as a stupid question so before I assume I want to hear you elaborate your question further, with less ambiguous details. (Unless it really was just too stupid of a question) Sooo your saying Gon a child was acting childish.. wow. I agree Luffy has human interactions. But the only difference in their childish actions is that Gon is a child and Luffy is not. Also while Gon acts that way there are alot of moments where he's the total opposite such as when showing genius in learning nen and winning the last quiz at Greed Island as well as his dedication and focus on training. Yea, I do understand that Gon is actually a child and Luffy isn't. That's one of the reasons why I think Gon is disgusting because I don't like child MCs. I have to bring up Killua now because he's the same age as Gon but instead, he's not disgusting because he gives of a certain "mature" vibe. You can tell me Gon had his moments but fuck me, they didn't help alleviate the bitter aftertaste that most of his screentime gave me. His character/personality is the only reason I won't ever rewatch it and Killua is the only reason I finished it. Child MC's can be hard to get right. Another example of a bad MC is in Accel World (Still can't believe he's the MC) and Magi: The Labyrinth of Magic (another "bad" child MC). ...What do you think? |
| As long as they develop, they're fine. When they DON'T, we gotta problem. coughcoughMIAKAcough |
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| I generally can tolerate weak mc as a starting point, I'm also fine with OP characters. What I don't like in any main character is that when they act wishy-washy to the point I no longer enjoy the anime as a whole. I also have a threshold limit when it comes to braindead characters. Last but not least, I can't sing praises if most of the opponent have better super power that's more exciting to watch than main character like deku, ueki (law of ueki), main character in marchen awaken romance etc. |
Gythia said: The type I dislike are those that get literally bodied by all its competitors and is at the very bottom of the food chain, for example: -Naruto (Naruto) -Deku (My Hero Academia) -Kaneki (Tokyo Ghoul) To me, they are the most endearing protagonists. The ones who try and fail, over and over again, yet muster up the courage to persevere. The Pain arc wouldn't have been so impactful if Naruto hadn't been continually bodied up until that point. |
| I prefer characters who remain weak. Having the power to directly impose your will on other people is the least interesting way of solving problems. |
| I want a MC who start off OP with character development. |
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| it's not about it starting point, but how the premise developed. |
 "If taking responsibility for a mistake that cannot be undone means death, it's not that hard to die. At least, not as hard as to live on." |
| I don't care. It would be boring if I only watched one or the other. I care more about the whole story than just one character. |
| I don't mind weak MCs, i find it better when they have room to grow physically because you can actually see their strungles. This doesn't mean i can't aprectiate OP ones though, specially when they're well done. But on the other side.. their personality matters more in my opinion, if i don't find them likable on that department then i don't care if they're weak or op. An example of this is Deku, he starts off weak but i find his personality traits somewhat annoying and boring. |
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| I kinda got real tired of it, that's why I really enjoy Isekai now. |
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