Chihayafuru Chapter 205 Discussion

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Mar 2015

12619

We should give thanks to Iatheia who translated 204-208 and who TDX credited her in the publication of those chapters.

landofthekwtDec 8, 2018 9:56 AM

Dec 7, 2018 3:36 PM

#5

Tringhamm

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Aug 2012

56

18 cards difference on a final game? And he even says 'Sorry for standing in your way'?
Yes, that's how you destroy the character's development.

Dec 8, 2018 10:45 AM

#6

LaauRamone

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Jul 2016

11

I loved this chapter... so emotional and beautiful. Arata and Taichi's relationship is beautifully complex, I myself adore the "rivals but friends" dynamic and this manga truly captures it both in the romance department and the sport one.

I really do not understand why some people think that this destroyed Taichi's character, to me is the complete opposite. I also don't get why people asumed that it was Taichi the one who should have won for storytelling sake... he learned and grew A LOT in the past year but -to me- Arata was meant to win it now. I really am hoping for Wataya to win the Meijin title and face Mashima again as the challenger next year.

Dec 8, 2018 10:31 PM

#7

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Mar 2015

12619

This chapter actually caused the editorial staff of BeLove to cry when they read it

Dec 9, 2018 2:44 AM

#8

sevki

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Sep 2010

244

On the one hand I think this emotional ending was needed and good. But on the other, a difference of 18 at the very end, I don't know... Arata would have had won anyways so why make the defeat much worse that it needed to be? We get it he is a "genius" and "hardworker" okay, but Taichi is not a dumb sucker. The final match should have been more competitive.

Anyways I don't really love Arata as a person, so I don't have hype for the Meijin title match. Let's see Chihaya's match first, and then see which way her relationship with the other 2 goes.

Dec 10, 2018 10:32 PM

#9

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Oct 2012

2231

landofthekwt said:
This chapter actually caused the editorial staff of BeLove to cry when they read it

Oh gosh, really did they cry? how is it that I can't feel anything? I'm totally in the dark. I just can't feel the emotions in this chapter..........

Dec 11, 2018 7:32 AM

#10

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Mar 2015

12619

@chiaki Their tweet was in Suetsugu's twitter It was that whole crying and hugging thing where they each talked about not wanting to be in each others way. Who are we kidding? Taichi wanted Arata to acknowledge him as a rival Arata used that whole teki= enemy thing to fire himself up against Taichi At the end they just kiss and make up Maybe it is Japanese thing where you release all the hate at the end of the game and kiss and make up

Dec 11, 2018 10:22 AM

#11

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Oct 2012

2231

Land kun, you already know how I feel about these chapters.........but I just can't believe the Be Love redaction. This was a total shoujo tear jerking hug show........not my cup of tea. I can appreciate crying etc, but it didn't feel real here. It felt so false........I just can't understand..........

Dec 14, 2018 2:24 PM

#12

Massahomsy

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Sep 2017

8

dupreeh said:
18 cards difference on a final game? And he even says 'Sorry for standing in your way'?
Yes, that's how you destroy the character's development.

Hahhahhaahha my sentiment exactly.... I've never ever commented or replied to anything before but when I saw this I just couldn't help laughing and replying to it ... I mean ok you want him to lose .. make him lose just not like this ...and above everything else I'm seriously tired of seeing him lose this much like in everything ... I don't want him to end up with Chihaya anymore ...at this point i ship him with happiness ..he deserves it relly he does

Dec 14, 2018 2:55 PM

#13

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Mar 2015

12619

Lets not get silly here. Taichi is smart, rich, handsome and comes from a powerful family Unlike everyone else his way is paved with gold. he did not lose because he was less talented than Arata. Everyone now acknowledges him as talented He is well on his way to becoming the head of the hospital that his grandfather heads now

His losing this match is irrelevant to his life. Only a few people on NHK even pay attention to the Meijin and Queen matches. He can still play next year after Suo is gone if he still wants to be Meijin

He got Arata to acknowledge him as a rival in order to beat. His mother actually acknowledged his choices and stood behind him. Suo acknowledged him. Chihaya is only staying away because she realizes what she did to him

Dec 15, 2018 3:30 PM

#14

Flyh

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Jan 2017

11

Woaw, 18 cards difference, Suetsugu Yuki just really wants destroy Taichi until the end ? Why Taichi always loose ? For me, I just see that if you're a hard worker but not a genius you can't win against the Queen and the Meijin. But ok, if Arata have to be the Meijin, just don't make Taichi lost by 18 cards... and emotional or not, I didn't feel anything except sadness.

Dec 15, 2018 6:02 PM

#15

sweetangie

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Feb 2011

379

akisame__ said:
I've been waiting so long for a really heart-felt emotional breakthrough with Arata. For a study of his loneliness and his dependency on Karuta, and we finally got that.

Oh yes, a very emotional chapter: Arata spoken from his heart how grateful he is having such wonderful friends through karuta: and he thanked Taichi again for playing karuta with him with all his heart this time in the present ( their bromance scene was very touching: I even cried again... T_T), and seeing Chihaya getting emotional towards Arata and Taichi is so sweet: it created a magical bridge built with Arata and Taichi's friendly rivaly, their friendship will last forever. I'm positive. ;)

Dec 16, 2018 6:24 AM

#16

jepifish

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Sep 2012

182

I don't understand the obsession this fandom has with putting Taichi at the front-and-centre of everything in 'Chihayafuru', when the story isn't even his to begin with. He went through a nice arc.

This might be 'controversial', but Taichi was a really narcissistic and self-serving character. Case in point: his complete overreaction when he was rejected by Chihaya despite everything he had "done for her". I wasn't really enjoying his arc, because I felt it was driving him down a path that was going to make him even more self-serving. But it didn't, by the end of it, it taught him the value of friendship, that whilst playing Karuta did not get him victory in-game or in-love it gave him a plethora of valuable relationships. I'm also glad that it made Taichi face his own flaws - though I apparently he doesn't have any according to his rabid fans - of being bitter, vindictive, and overly-antagonistic towards Arata. It's about time we saw him cross that childish bridge and actually acknowledge that Arata is a good friend, and cares about him.

It was also really touching to see Arata reach out to him like that. To express his loneliness, as well as the fact he's ashamed of himself for being so dependent on Karuta, on how it has impacted his friendships.

Why are people so livid? How on earth is this character assassination? Taichi was never foreshadowed to become one of the "greats" in Karuta. Why should the author just 'hand' him that victory because he's nursing a broken heart lol? He ended up coming out of that loss with so many more gains: personal growth that he will hold with him for the rest of his life. He learned to be compassionate and think of others needs as opposed to his own desires - something we had NEVER seen in Taichi before, as he was always operating with the desire to "win" Chihaya from Arata (not that a person can be won).

Also, what's with this "I hope Taichi gets Chihaya because he lost Karuta to Arata. He deserves that much." Listen up here, Chihaya is the *main character*. This is fundamentally her story. She is a woman with agency - it's up to her to decide who she wants to be with. No amount of battles on the Karuta game-room floor is going to determine who she will or will not be with. She's not a prize to be won, and the thought of so many of you treating her as such is pretty gross. It's like women are just objects to be fought over in a petty duel lol. Also, it's like many of you have forgotten who it is this whole manga is supposed to be about jfc.

Dec 16, 2018 9:50 AM

#17

Flyh

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Jan 2017

11

"He ended up coming out of that loss with so many more gains: personal growth that he will hold with him for the rest of his life. He learned to be compassionate and think of others needs as opposed to his own desires - something we had NEVER seen in Taichi before, as he was always operating with the desire to "win" Chihaya from Arata (not that a person can be won). "

Uh? Taichi never wanted to "win" Chihaya but to be seeing by her? And he was always trying to help others despite himself? Taichi narcissistic and self-service? Sure, when he was a kid, but much less actually.

Well, maybe Chihaya is the main character but I can't see a real evolution (except in Karuta lol). That's why I think Taichi is a better character in my opinion BUT it's not because he lost by 18 cards that his character development is destroy.

Dec 16, 2018 6:40 PM

#18

sweetangie

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Feb 2011

379

@akisame__ I totally agree, Arata brought alot of kindness in so many charcaters from this story: he was the one who made Chihaya open her heart by following her "own" dreams: something she found that she loves and really want to achieve by living her dream: Arata brought karuta to Chihaya's life, his love for karuta made Chihaya open her eyes for the first time of her life : so did Taichi which what we witnessed from this chapter the whole passion towards their love and friendship brought them together and Arata wants to share and express something he truly feels from the bottom of his heart which is something no one can ever take away.

It's true, Chihaya is a person not a trophy and only she decides who she loves ( and yes karuta isn't a lottery raffle where the winner must give-up the girl to the loser: it doesn't work that way- surely the creator has much more great ideas to the story: Taichi has growed as a charcater and that's is a big achievement coming from the creator for the Taichi fans.

The fans has to keep in mind Arata is also one of the main character from this story even though he gets mostly skipped for so many chapters before: therfore it's only fair even Arata deserves to have a spotlight of the story altogether: while mostly during of teh team arc tournaments Arata was mostly left out because having his own team wasn't a big part of his charcater development ( while Chihaya and Taichi gets most of the attention and development together with their team members in Mizusawa, it's something they achieved together and brought importance to the story as a whole with alot of dedication that served its purpose: and yes I really want Arata to share and achieve something together with Chihaya for a change that's also important to the story that's a big part of their charcater development, which is reaching out their dreams TOGETHER ( well that's my opinion): something they both share that connects them which brings their bridge to the light, following their promise they made for each other to meet in karuta tournaments had reach to this destination towards the main event in what's to come): since karuta is the main theme of the story, it's only fair for Arata to get some amount of screentime during the individuals ( aiming in becoming meijin) while he lacked in the previous arcs : which is one of the things we had waited for this long.

sweetangieDec 16, 2018 9:53 PM

Dec 17, 2018 2:40 AM

#19

jepifish

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Sep 2012

182

Flyh said:
"He ended up coming out of that loss with so many more gains: personal growth that he will hold with him for the rest of his life. He learned to be compassionate and think of others needs as opposed to his own desires - something we had NEVER seen in Taichi before, as he was always operating with the desire to "win" Chihaya from Arata (not that a person can be won). "

Uh? Taichi never wanted to "win" Chihaya but to be seeing by her? And he was always trying to help others despite himself? Taichi narcissistic and self-service? Sure, when he was a kid, but much less actually.

Well, maybe Chihaya is the main character but I can't see a real evolution (except in Karuta lol). That's why I think Taichi is a better character in my opinion BUT it's not because he lost by 18 cards that his character development is destroy.

He completely overreacted when Chihaya rejected him, and for the vast majority of the time leading up to his confession he was the textbook definition of a Dogged Nice Guy. He went to such extreme lengths post-rejection, acting spitefully and shutting Chihaya out just because she doesn't reciprocate his romantic feelings. That's most definitely narciistic and self-serving behaviour. Thankfully, he seems to have grown out of it.

How does an 18 card loss in karuta have anything to do with character development? Karuta is a game - Taichi's skill in that field is not correlated to his personal growth at all. He could become the best karuta player in the world, yet still have the emotional depth for a cardboard cutout. So many people claim that Arata is hard to empathise with because he's just a "Karuta God", but that also has nothing to do with character depth or development.

Taichi learn to grow as a person. Emotionally. To think beyond himself. That's got nothing to do with winning or losing by 18 cards. If you can't see that, that you're honestly missing the point. And, to be honest, real life does not work like that anyway.

Dec 17, 2018 11:35 AM

#20

Sorvarin

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Jun 2007

1039

Shinobu sorta made me uncomfortable... :|
the Arata-Taichi scene was magical

landofthekwt said:
We should give thanks to Iatheia who translated 204-208 and who TDX credited her in the publication of those chapters.

god bless her

SorvarinDec 17, 2018 3:22 PM

see you, space cowperson . . .

Dec 23, 2018 2:41 AM

#21

starstriker

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Oct 2008

1

So do Taichi fans hate Sumire? I'm confused lol

Dec 31, 2018 12:09 PM

#22

jojojlc

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Dec 2010

2

I’m so glad someone finally acknowledged taichis efforts. Taichi didn’t really care about winning or losing he just wanted someone to acknowledge all the effort he had put into a game he didn’t even enjoy for the sake of others. Even though it is “controversial” and people think it has killed the story I personally think it was necessary for character development. Without it both arata and taichi would be stuck in a state of hatred for each other and honestly no matter who Chihaya would have ended up choosing to be with would not be satisfying if they both truly hated each other and Chihaya would be thrown into a state of dispare if that happened making the story end in complete chaos. Yeah, the author could have made taichi the winner but again taichi didn’t really care about being a king during this match whereas arata did so realistically if he had lost arata would not have been emotionally capable of acknowledging taichi and again the story line would have just ended with them both hating each other.

Dec 31, 2018 12:51 PM

#23

jojojlc

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Dec 2010

2

starstriker said:
So do Taichi fans hate Sumire? I'm confused lol

I don’t know if they hate her but she is actually a really good character in my opinion. When Chihaya rejected taichi he became distraught and left the club but taichi basically rejected sumire but she was still able to love and support Chihaya who she was basically rejected for. I know taichi has loved Chihaya for a lot longer but time doesn’t necessarily mean your feelings are deeper and you can tell sumire truly loves taichi and just wants him to be happy. I personally think she is what taichi needs, not necessarily in a romantic way but he needs someone who cares for him Unconditionally that isn’t Chihaya. He spent all that time being in love with and obsessing over Chihaya & arata that I don’t think he has ever really looked at or accepted anyone else into his heart.

Jan 18, 2019 12:08 PM

#24

Mugipyon

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Jun 2015

110

akisame__ said:
I don't understand the obsession this fandom has with putting Taichi at the front-and-centre of everything in 'Chihayafuru', when the story isn't even his to begin with. He went through a nice arc.

This might be 'controversial', but Taichi was a really narcissistic and self-serving character. Case in point: his complete overreaction when he was rejected by Chihaya despite everything he had "done for her". I wasn't really enjoying his arc, because I felt it was driving him down a path that was going to make him even more self-serving. But it didn't, by the end of it, it taught him the value of friendship, that whilst playing Karuta did not get him victory in-game or in-love it gave him a plethora of valuable relationships. I'm also glad that it made Taichi face his own flaws - though I apparently he doesn't have any according to his rabid fans - of being bitter, vindictive, and overly-antagonistic towards Arata. It's about time we saw him cross that childish bridge and actually acknowledge that Arata is a good friend, and cares about him.

It was also really touching to see Arata reach out to him like that. To express his loneliness, as well as the fact he's ashamed of himself for being so dependent on Karuta, on how it has impacted his friendships.

Why are people so livid? How on earth is this character assassination? Taichi was never foreshadowed to become one of the "greats" in Karuta. Why should the author just 'hand' him that victory because he's nursing a broken heart lol? He ended up coming out of that loss with so many more gains: personal growth that he will hold with him for the rest of his life. He learned to be compassionate and think of others needs as opposed to his own desires - something we had NEVER seen in Taichi before, as he was always operating with the desire to "win" Chihaya from Arata (not that a person can be won).

Also, what's with this "I hope Taichi gets Chihaya because he lost Karuta to Arata. He deserves that much." Listen up here, Chihaya is the *main character*. This is fundamentally her story. She is a woman with agency - it's up to her to decide who she wants to be with. No amount of battles on the Karuta game-room floor is going to determine who she will or will not be with. She's not a prize to be won, and the thought of so many of you treating her as such is pretty gross. It's like women are just objects to be fought over in a petty duel lol. Also, it's like many of you have forgotten who it is this whole manga is supposed to be about jfc.

Wow, thank you so much for this. Finally someone out there shared the same thought with me. Exact to the T. Also I agree with the 18 card difference point; yes it's kinda too big for card differences but it's not related to Taichi's chara development. Besides at the end, he lost because he was kinda not focusing on the game itself even only for a milisecond. If he still won even after that (you can also see Arata was really focused there), that's just unrealistic. And to everyone who said this chapter ruins Taichi's development: WTH??? I said this chapter is actually such a nice conclusion to his arc. Super NICE conclusion. The best way to end his arc. I love you Suetsugu-sensei. Gonna upping the score because of this and the previous chapter. So powerful.

Anyway, this chapter legit made me cry a ton. Both Arata and Taichi's developments and their relationship, THEIR BROMANCE. I can't form the words. Just, beautiful. Arata's IF situation. Taichi's finally making peace. Their hug. Their tears. MAI BROKORO (*ﾉД`*)･ﾟ･。

When Arata said, "I wish I could play soccer," I knew right away that'll be one heck of a moment. Gosh, I love his monologue so much. Best part. Arata, thank you so much for your words in this chapter. They're so beautiful, my nose clogged up. I love them. I love you.

Now please excuse me while I reread this chapter for years after.

MugipyonJan 18, 2019 12:47 PM

Echo Protection Squad | Bamco pls give Kresnik Bros happiness

Despair cause: dying children everywhere | ShinAya is important
―living a maso shipper life since 89.57% of her OTPs are Doomed by Canon―

Mar 29, 2019 7:20 PM

#25

SaotomeRhuan

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Mar 2019

1

That's it? All the development of Taichi for him to lose by 18 cards? WTF? Just throw the title of Meijin and Chihaya to Arata and finish the stupid manga.

Nov 20, 2019 8:33 AM

#26

Avish

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Jun 2014

203

What an amazing chapter! Made me shed a few tears. Finally, for the first time in his life, Taichi is finding the cards and Karuta dear. His kind gesture of asking Kana-chan to fix Arata's hakama somewhat made up for the 'tasuki' moment in the earlier chapter. Arata's emotional monologue and the hug was simply beautiful...

AvishNov 20, 2019 2:52 PM

May 16, 2020 7:42 PM

#27

Aoi_no_sora

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Nov 2015

353

Does mangaka hate taichi ??? Couldnt at least making Lost by less amount of Cards, so at leats he have some dignity there

May 18, 2020 8:41 PM

#28

Sapertinny

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Jan 2020

147

freizel said:
Does mangaka hate taichi ??? Couldnt at least making Lost by less amount of Cards, so at leats he have some dignity there

Probably she hates him

May 23, 2020 2:05 AM

#29

AuronAsimov

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Dec 2016

37

Ok, no no no no no no no, is this real? So Taichi just went in a blackhole with the Meijin, came back to the real world and the arc was finished that way?

"Hey guys, I'm gonna turn a sad boy for some months, giving everyone cold shoulders and abandoning the team in the nationals, to come back to hug Arata-kun in the end".

SaotomeRhuan said:
That's it? All the development of Taichi for him to lose by 18 cards? WTF? Just throw the title of Meijin and Chihaya to Arata and finish the stupid manga.

I second this.

May 23, 2020 7:13 AM

#30

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Oct 2012

2231

I feel Sensei's made a big mistake with that 18 card difference. Not only did she really poop on Taichi's karuta development, she didn't make Arata look credible at all putting that thick plotarmour on his shoulders. All the hugging drama after was ugh. Arata was is an easy position to be generous and nice.....not sure he would have said the same words, had he lost. As for Taichi, I applaud his efforts to go so far out of his comfort zone..... I hope he won't be left with only regrets. At least I think he is the bigger man in the story.

I also hope Chihaya has understood that.

May 23, 2020 12:21 PM

#31

abe_riona

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May 2020

6

18 cards at the end might have been a little controversal and disappointing to all Taichi fans, but I think its honestly because Taichi won a match against Arata. He won to THE Arata, that he said he couldn't beat even if he spent his whole youth on karuta. He spent his highschool life with karuta, and has now won against Arata. I feel like this was a shock, or rather such a big achievement, that he couldn't focus on his match. He didn't want to become meijin anyway, if Harada sensei didn't stop Taichi, he would have forfeited the eastern qualifiers final round, and wouldn't even be where he was. It would be totally better and more satisfying if Taichi lost with a 5 card difference or something, but people saying Taichi should have won are going too far in MY opinion. Taichi has suffered a lot, yes I don't deny that and I support him as well because he has been through many things. But Arata spent his whole life on this dream, and if someone like Taichi, who doesn't hold karuta dear, won this challenger match it wouldn't really make sense (or it would be more like a miracle). I can't really explain why, and you can all disagree however you want, but it just wouldn't make sense for Taichi to win.

Idk why some people don't like the hug scene, it was like a beautiful display of Arata and Taichi's friendship (or more like what Taichi means to Arata). Taichi was sometimes happy to see Arata, but most of the times he showed hatred towards him. Taichi is a popular guy, and he has many friends and has many talents. Arata on the other hand is shy and doesn't have much friends, ever since he was little. He was bullied in Tokyo (by Taichi), but through Chihaya they became close friends. Taichi probably didn't think much of him.. he thought him as a friend but also a big enemy and was always jealous of him. Arata was sometimes jealous as well, but those feelings towards Taichi went away and was also always thankful for him, since he is one of his only friends that he has. I now think Taichi has understood that not everything between them is a competition, and they share a close friendship bond.
Honestly though, this whole competition between Taichi and Arata is because of Chihaya (and also because Taichi knows that they like each other). The reason why he wants to win to Arata in Karuta is also because of Chihaya (I think, oops). The ship Chiharata is the reason why he has negative emotions around them both, and it would probably be better if his feelings for Chihaya are fading away, and that is happening as he told Kanade so. I'm not saying this because I ship ChihayaXArata, but because I am a Taichi supporter, and I want him to be happy. He definitely deserves someone other than Chihaya, so a girl who has feelings for him, and will make him happy (I ship TaichiXSumire hard, i really dont know why), and I'm saying this for Taichi's sake. If he's gonna be obsessed with Chihaya for his whole life it isn't gonna take him far.

Sorry for the long rant, needed to post it somewhere haha. I would like to hear others opinions too, and I hope you understood part of my rant lmao.

Aug 22, 2020 8:32 PM

#32

EdTheAlchemist

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Apr 2019

292

So emotional. I cried many tears.

Oct 2, 2020 6:32 PM

#33

FlatOcean

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Feb 2016

84

I'll say it straight up, anyone who thinks that the 18 card difference destroyed Taichis development is a idiot.

Oct 4, 2020 2:42 AM

#34

accordionheart

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May 2018

6

FlatOcean said:
I'll say it straight up, anyone who thinks that the 18 card difference destroyed Taichis development is a idiot.

I dislike the 18 card difference, but it's mainly because I think Sensei mishandled the execution of the Taichi v Arata match. I understand what she was trying to do for Taichi's character development and there are moments I really like (e.g. when he asks Kana-chan to fix Arata's hakama), but a few issues made it fall really flat for me. I still wish it had been written differently.

My main issue is actually that Taichi never properly won against Arata. The second match was gifted to him - because of an previous agreement, but it still didn't feel satisfying. It meant that, for me, the payoff of "Taichi having won" wasn't properly realised. His celebration afterwards would have felt much more earned and I possibly would have been happier with the 18 card difference. But, of course, Arata had to make up for his mistake in the first match right away. I think this harmed Arata's character development as well.

The second issue for me is the 18 card difference. I understand that Suetsugu wanted to show Taichi in a desperate situation and contrast how he reacted then to how he would have acted as a kid, but the difference is so great that it feels unrealistic to me. Taichi's a decent player, with good stamina. He played amazingly in the second match, even when not playing Suo's style of karuta. Why did he lose by so much? We miss seeing the vast majority of the match and we never get a real answer as to what happened. The only narrative explanation I can understand is that Suetsugu was trying to impress upon us how strong Arata really is, which makes me feel that Taichi (and his journey in karuta) was sacrificed just to demonstrate that Arata can beat Suo. That's really not satisfying to me.

Obviously, it's all subjective, so I understand if people liked the execution, but I just wanted to set out my reasons for disliking it which feel pretty legitimate...

Oct 7, 2020 2:46 AM

#35

Offline

Oct 2012

2231

(^ I couldn't agree more!!! There were some really great moments in the challengers. But above mentioned critic put into words what has made me feel so unsatisfied with how it was handled.

Btw, I also feel that it has harmed Arata's development....making him look like his wins are because of his thick plot armour.

Oct 8, 2020 8:13 AM

#36

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Apr 2018

318

I don't know how people find it unrealistic or it affects any of the boys developments. Arata has been playing this game for nearly a decade and invested himself the most in it. Murao's description of him being that its not just talent and skill, he actually works really hard for it too, he literally practices 500 swings a day and builds himself physically for this game as well. The reason he can beat one of the strongest players like shinobu all the time is proof enough.
The fact that Taichi was able to push him to the limits back to back in 2 matches and even won one of them was such a big achievement for him. He was actually happy, that he finally managed to do something which he thought was impossible for him at the start & strived for plus also thanked suo for it. That's him showing his Hardwork payed off and his efforts were not in vain. Also arguing for taking cards is a important part of karuta even used in meijin & queen matches, like it or not.
Finally speaking of Arata's final match victory it was obvious Taichi was running out of steam because he had used almost everything in the first two games plus even one of the spectators mentioned their breathing rhythm, Arata was calm with more focus plus consistent with his takes and maintaining his skill level while taichi's rhythm was consuming him as Harada mentioned.
Also another fact is mentioned by suo after couple of chapters with his conversation to Harada sensei that, Arata's stats are all really highly balanced that's why its no wonder that he beat Taichi.

Oct 8, 2020 2:17 PM

#37

accordionheart

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May 2018

6

Kipo0007 said:
Murao's description of him being that its not just talent and skill, he actually works really hard for it too, he literally practices 500 swings a day and builds himself physically for this game as well.

So we get told that Arata practices 500 swings a day - but we never actually see how hard he works. We see Chihaya practice, we see Taichi practice, we see Shinobu practice. I buy that they all work really hard. I find it harder with Arata because we never see his 500 swings a day. It's a classic example of telling, not showing.

Kipo0007 said:
The fact that Taichi was able to push him to the limits back to back in 2 matches and even won one of them was such a big achievement for him. He was actually happy, that he finally managed to do something which he thought was impossible for him at the start & strived for plus also thanked suo for it. That's him showing his Hardwork payed off and his efforts were not in vain. Also arguing for taking cards is a important part of karuta even used in meijin & queen matches, like it or not.

As I said, it would be a bigger achievement for me if Taichi had actually won one of them, but he didn't, it was gifted to him. If he had won one on his own steam, I would actually have felt really happy for him (and quite probably would have been fine with his loss). But he didn't.

Yes, arguing for cards is an important part of karuta, but Arata clearly felt like he was in the wrong in the first match. So I think it was more than arguing for the card, it was unfair behaviour. You can argue about how far certain behaviour is acceptable in karuta if you'd like (and Chihayafuru has explored that before), but that's not the point. The point is that Taichi didn't get a clean win over Arata, so it doesn't feel like that big of an achievement to me.

Kipo0007 said:
Finally speaking of Arata's final match victory it was obvious Taichi was running out of steam because he had used almost everything in the first two games plus even one of the spectators mentioned their breathing rhythm, Arata was calm with more focus plus consistent with his takes and maintaining his skill level while taichi's rhythm was consuming him as Harada mentioned.

But why is this the case? We don't get to see the final match in the entirety, we just get told that Taichi is down by a ridiculous number of cards because he got tired out. Taichi, who is a high-level player himself, practices with the best player in the world several times a week, and has decent stamina.

In the 2nd year Nationals, Taichi didn't drop a single match and played more matches over two days than Arata did, and yet we're meant to agree that this was inevitable? The last time Taichi and Arata played, before Taichi started training with Suo, Taichi only lost by 4 cards (iirc?). And Arata thought that he might have lost to Taichi if Chiha had been read, so clearly the match was close.

It just doesn't ring true to me that Taichi lost by such a huge amount. If we'd seen the beginning of the match, seen that the flow of cards didn't go in Taichi's favour, seen him start to struggle with Arata's playing, then maybe it would have felt more realistic (though still clearly an outlier with the rest of their games). But in the end, it was just really anticlimactic to me.

Oct 8, 2020 6:00 PM

#38

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Apr 2018

318

accordionheart said:

Kipo0007 said:
Murao's description of him being that its not just talent and skill, he actually works really hard for it too, he literally practices 500 swings a day and builds himself physically for this game as well.

So we get told that Arata practices 500 swings a day - but we never actually see how hard he works. We see Chihaya practice, we see Taichi practice, we see Shinobu practice. I buy that they all work really hard. I find it harder with Arata because we never see his 500 swings a day. It's a classic example of telling, not showing.

Kipo0007 said:
The fact that Taichi was able to push him to the limits back to back in 2 matches and even won one of them was such a big achievement for him. He was actually happy, that he finally managed to do something which he thought was impossible for him at the start & strived for plus also thanked suo for it. That's him showing his Hardwork payed off and his efforts were not in vain. Also arguing for taking cards is a important part of karuta even used in meijin & queen matches, like it or not.

As I said, it would be a bigger achievement for me if Taichi had actually won one of them, but he didn't, it was gifted to him. If he had won one on his own steam, I would actually have felt really happy for him (and quite probably would have been fine with his loss). But he didn't.

Yes, arguing for cards is an important part of karuta, but Arata clearly felt like he was in the wrong in the first match. So I think it was more than arguing for the card, it was unfair behaviour. You can argue about how far certain behaviour is acceptable in karuta if you'd like (and Chihayafuru has explored that before), but that's not the point. The point is that Taichi didn't get a clean win over Arata, so it doesn't feel like that big of an achievement to me.

Kipo0007 said:
Finally speaking of Arata's final match victory it was obvious Taichi was running out of steam because he had used almost everything in the first two games plus even one of the spectators mentioned their breathing rhythm, Arata was calm with more focus plus consistent with his takes and maintaining his skill level while taichi's rhythm was consuming him as Harada mentioned.

But why is this the case? We don't get to see the final match in the entirety, we just get told that Taichi is down by a ridiculous number of cards because he got tired out. Taichi, who is a high-level player himself, practices with the best player in the world several times a week, and has decent stamina.

In the 2nd year Nationals, Taichi didn't drop a single match and played more matches over two days than Arata did, and yet we're meant to agree that this was inevitable? The last time Taichi and Arata played, before Taichi started training with Suo, Taichi only lost by 4 cards (iirc?). And Arata thought that he might have lost to Taichi if Chiha had been read, so clearly the match was close.

It just doesn't ring true to me that Taichi lost by such a huge amount. If we'd seen the beginning of the match, seen that the flow of cards didn't go in Taichi's favour, seen him start to struggle with Arata's playing, then maybe it would have felt more realistic (though still clearly an outlier with the rest of their games). But in the end, it was just really anticlimactic to me.

Never shown how hard he works? Even though we haven't seen that much in compared to Chihaya and taichi, but yes we do see his practice sessions alone as well as in his karuta society with murao that too when he loses to him at times. So "Never" doesnt really fit the equation or you have actually not seen it. Even one short scene was shown with the narrative he practices 500 swings a day. This is not some bs plot armor just for namesake.
Bigger achievement is he won, it was not gifted to him what are you talking about? The first match could have been won by him as well for arguments sake, The game legit includes the contest of Players want to or not give up the card they are fighting for. how is it unfair behavior ? Players like Harada, Yumi they literally assert themselves hard for the card and its a clean win, there are mind games and other tactics involved as well (taichi himself used mind games) it all depends on the players determination & whether they give up or not. There's nothing called clean win over it. Its a win and especially if its a high stake match you go for it.
Also it was a deal made between them for the 2nd match that if Taichi manages to bring it down to the luck of the draw, Arata will concede the game.
Arata could have managed to easily defend and get it to a 2 card or 3 card difference but Taichi did manage to make it to that point meaning he did actually pushed Arata to that point and earned that victory for himself.
Why is that the case? He practices with suo and has decent stamina sure but it all comes down to who can keep his nerves and keep a consistent performance throughout the games. Karuta is also a game of endurance. We see it in one of the experienced spectators perspective as well because he was wondering too where did Taichis strength from earlier games go. Its because everyone cannot maintain that level of gameplay in every game especially against a top level opponent. Murao described Arata's motion as something which doesn't waver on how many times it repeats itself while Taichi said he can hear the sounds but his body wont move plus his breathing was off with Arata continuously putting the pressure on him & setting the pace. There were lot of factors which were explained which we were putting a toll on taichi.
2nd year nationals Taichi didn't face opponents even close to current Arata's Level that too 3 games straight back to back in a row. You realize how much effort it takes to just keep at a level of someone like that in that specific situation? And what game are you talking about exactly? because if you are talking about the game where Taichi came at 4th place, it was not specified by how many cards he lost by and also Arata was contemplating what would have happened if the chiha card would have been read, would the game change and would he have been able to defend the chiha card because taichi was focused on that card. He didn't say he would lose. (Also we get to See Arata practice with murao in the same scene where Murao mentions Arata has overcome his stamina weakness again contradicting your first point)
Taichi didn't lose to some average player, he lost to someone who has been training to be a meijin contender his entire life and while Taichi was training with Suo, Arata was improving his skills as well. If luck factor came in because of the flow of cards were not in his favor it would be the same repetition of his previous matches where he lost due to luck, that would be even worse.
Taichi did achieve victory even in the match & for his personal growth. His efforts did pay off which was satisfactory to see imo

Kipo0007Oct 8, 2020 6:03 PM

Oct 9, 2020 12:09 AM

#39

accordionheart

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May 2018

6

To me, a win isn't just a win, regardless of how clean it was and especially when it's meant to be that narratively important. I disliked it because it wasn't satisfying enough for me for the payoff it was meant to be. I know it was an agreement between Arata and Taichi, but it made my enjoyment of the moment lacking. If I compare it to other big wins in the series, the excitement of taking the last card is really huge and in this case we didn't get that at all and it felt incomplete for me. I think it would have been more fitting for Taichi's efforts paying off if he'd taken all those cards himself.

And your points about Arata being strong are valid, but again, it feels like Taichi's strength completely vanished in the last match. If it had been closer than 18 cards (8 cards? 10 cards?), I really don't think I would have been as disappointed, but 18 just seems like an unsurpassable gap that isn't in line with what we've seen from Taichi before. I then feel like it undermines all of Arata's nice words about Taichi being so strong, because he's clearly not strong if he just somehow lost his will in the last match and lost by a huge margin. And that's a shame, because I didn't want the emotional payoff at the end of the chapter to be ruined for me, but it was.

As I said, it's all subjective, so I think we're going to have to agree to disagree in the end. This is just how I feel about the execution of the Challengers and it's fine if others like it! I just felt it was unfair to write off people who have complaints about the chapter as stupid.

Oct 12, 2020 9:41 AM

#40

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Oct 2012

2231

Arata lost to Harada. Taichi beats Murao and Sudo. Plays a luck of draw match against Chihaya. Taichi vs Arata match before the challenger: Taichi loses with 4 cards. Taichi vs Harada in the qualifiers, win for Taichi.

Then challenger: one close win for Arata, one close win for Taichi

Then Arata wins third match with 18 cards difference ???

Sorry, but there is no logical reason for such a big gap. Taichi is used to playing 6 to 7 matches in a row and on top of it has been training on regular basis with no other than the Meijin.

There really is no valid reason why Arata won so big in that last match. That Dragonball power up was really weird.

A 10 card difference max would have been "acceptable". But sports wise that 18 card difference wasn't explainable.....we didn't see what happened btw. And Taichi being exhausted is just a crappy excuse. Anyway, I loved the sports side but this precise match destroyed all credibility in the sports side of this manga for me. Even pushing it so far as to thinking ridiculous stuff like "was it Yuu's bento or what?"

Never expected Taichi to win, but even so rooted for him because it was crazy exciting. But that outcome.....well most of the fans that were there purely for the sports, dumped it right there and then. I know, cause I was around when that storm went down. I've read and watched my share of sports/game manga and anime....but this was a pure letdown.

Tbh, I don't know what Sensei wanted to convey with this other than something symbolic cause in a "sport's man's" logic it was incomprehensible.

Tbh it took away Arata's credibility.....the Meijin match could have been exciting......but now?? It's just because?

How can you even root in these conditions?

I still feel Sensei made an illogical mistake in this chapter.

chiakimagotoOct 12, 2020 10:13 AM

Oct 12, 2020 1:18 PM

#41

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Apr 2018

318

Lol Dragonball power up. This is the thing with the biased views thinking only Taichi was working hard, training and developing not Arata.
They both came a long way from there especially from Arata vs Harada's match which also was a close one where Arata learnt his major lesson and his lack of major tournament experience.
And its there have been matches where people have lost with more than 10 card difference. Taichi is used to playing 6-7 matches true and so are other players who have the same experience doesn't mean they cant tire out playing a match with someone? Example Murao vs Harada sensei before his match with taichi, Harada literally drained him in one game and even the spectators said it will affect him later.
There are situations and scenarios where a player might not perform as expected due to various factors which can be surprising but expected which also includes opponents players outperforming them.
This happens "Sports wise" on various sport platforms where huge gap victories happen between two close levelled parties its not something unbelievable, if you actually watched more sport related events. It all depends on their performance till the end. Even the best players can make a mess out of their games, its not something impossible.
Arata was calm & still keeping pressure on him and not letting him give space to get his rhythm back, Taichi wasn't able to think of a proper comeback strategy, it was that overwhelming. His breathing was off which is a most important aspect of the game.
Even after suo who is like the best & most experienced person along with harada in their conversation explain and recognized arata's true skills & why he was able to beat taichi, idk how people find it unbelievable. Its like ignoring Arata's true potential as a karuta player and spitting on his experience hardwork & skills he has honed so far for years & years.
I do agree somewhere on the part that the 18 card difference could have been a little less but the people who are complaining about would still do it anyways.
And "Yuu's bento" was just a way of saying thanks to yuu for always helping him & his grandfather, that it gave him strength to keep even him going , its like saying something nice to her because last time he was a jerk to her. Plus giving a assurance to his mom and yuu that he will give it his all to win the third match. How can you even take that seriously as a major source of winning a match? its a pep talk basically for the people who are supporting him.
And the viewers who actually understand the game of karuta through the series never have dumped it here because this chapter actually was one of the best chapters for majority of the fans except for some.
Sensei conveyed a beautiful part between these two boys, their interaction & bonding without chihaya in their lives, something which many fans wanted to see. The biggest factor being Taichis efforts & sacrifices being recognized infront of everyone and his realization of his true love for the game. Which was also showed from others perspective when they say they are not talented at the game & its tough yet they still play it, which is best represented by Taichi.
It never took arata's credibility away nor destroyed Taichis development especially seeing both of their emotions & feelings in the chapter. The meijin matches are still exciting and proving Arata's strength even more.
Sensei wrote a really great chapter imo.

Kipo0007Oct 12, 2020 1:23 PM

Oct 12, 2020 1:51 PM

#42

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Oct 2012

2231

There is a big part of the fans that had a very hard time digesting this chapter.

Good for you that you loved it. I just don't buy it. Hardly anything of that third match was shown, so we don't even know what really happened and what made Arata that good to beat Taichi with such a great difference. Again, no show, only tell.

Personally this was one of the chapters I enjoyed least of all the chapters in the whole manga. I felt like something broke.

Alas the aftermath of the match didn't have the desired effect either. With time my brain has analysed what was being written/drawn, but my heart will alas never understand.

I'm certainly not alone in thinking this, seen the storm that raged after this chapter, lots of fans just dropped it all.

As for the excitement of the matches....there is no trust in the logic any longer...

I guess the only thing that still catches my attention in the matches are the poems, the personal development of Chihaya, Taichi's arrival.

As for Suou, I feel sad he is up against a character like Arata. He has no chance. I would be more than surprised if Arata loses this final. He'll probably lose the next match but scrabble up like he always does....and win the title. I don't see how there could be another outcome to all of this.

If there is a twist, I'll be baffled!

One thing I know about my read of Chihayafuru, is that I love it alot less after 205 than before....Sensei has put in some things after that I find genius and emotionally satisfying enough to keep me hanging on. I'll always love parts of this story to bits. But it's how she will wrap it all up that will count in my book if this story will just be forgotten or reread many times, like I've already done.

chiakimagotoOct 12, 2020 2:07 PM

Oct 12, 2020 2:31 PM

#43

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Apr 2018

318

Thats why i said "some" didn't and i have seen it on multiple social platforms.

Well i can see why you dont buy it given your preferences. We see from nishida's perspective when chihaya arrives either you will understand whats happening or not. We see Specatators input on the game, Taichi's mindset, what was happening and how Arata's playstyle has been affecting game putting him at a disadvantage. When the character itself is portraying & describing his helplessness against the situation and if you cant even grasp even a portion of that after watching tons of karuta games in the series then i dont know what to say.
The game was important sure but what came after was much more important on a grander scale which affected the story deeply especially for the characters. There was so much to be desired and the fans loved it.
For the logic of the matches, even the premises of the previous played matches are being used in the current chapters very nicely especially the chihaya vs Arata match. So i trust sensei with that.
Feeling sorry for suo for going against someone like Arata? really?
Taichi acknowledges the fact that arata is the best opponent there can be for suo and Suo is actually proving his true meijin prowess right now against him especially while being at a big disadvantage which is making fans respect him even more plus seeing his personal development & bonding with his aunt makes him even more lovable. So that statement of yours is not holding its weight tbh.
I can see where your disinterest/ less love for the series after 205 is coming from, but there's plenty of things that's making the series more cherishing and enjoyable & i do have faith that sensei will do justice to the story and make it memorable even without unnecessary twists to surprise people & letting it flow naturally the way its supposed to be.

Kipo0007Oct 12, 2020 2:36 PM

Oct 12, 2020 9:44 PM

#44