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Poll: Fate/Apocrypha Episode 22 Discussion


Dec 29, 2017 1:09 AM
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Z4k said:
Shawn_Jones said:
more like colors mashing together. This was super cheesy. Worst animation of the year.

Did you just create an alt account to say that? lol what a pussy.
No actually I made a account just so I could comment on this stupid statement. I don't sit and debate with a bunch of crybaby fan boys.
 
Dec 29, 2017 2:37 AM
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Shawn_Jones said:
Z4k said:

Did you just create an alt account to say that? lol what a pussy.
No actually I made a account just so I could comment on this stupid statement. I don't sit and debate with a bunch of crybaby fan boys.

The only stupid statement is yours mate. The fact that you compared this episode with Pain vs Naruto and used it as an example of bad animation without properly explaining shows how much of an ignorant moron you are.
 
Dec 29, 2017 2:43 AM
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Z4k said:
Shawn_Jones said:
No actually I made a account just so I could comment on this stupid statement. I don't sit and debate with a bunch of crybaby fan boys.

The only stupid statement is yours mate. The fact that you compared this episode with Pain vs Naruto and used it as an example of bad animation without properly explaining shows how much of an ignorant moron you are.
lol the only ignorant moron is yourself if you think for a second this animation is any good. Go jerk off to imaginary women you asshat.
 
Dec 29, 2017 6:44 AM
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i get both sides of this argument, but people saying this is the best or the worst are both wrong in my opinion; each single animated sequence by itself was great most of the time but because of the different styles the whole pack just looks weird.

 
Dec 29, 2017 7:06 AM

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What was some insane animation.

I wonder what's the relation between Achilles and Atalanta?
 
Dec 29, 2017 1:27 PM

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People need to learn that opinions are not universal.

Maityoman said:
You can tell the difference in people's knowledge about the anime industry depending on what they thought about the animation of this episode.

Quite pedantic, aren't you ?

I found the animation on par with the sound effects (meaning really REALLY bad). I will compare it with the EPR : it needs a lot of money and effort, but is nowhere near working.
 
Dec 29, 2017 11:03 PM
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The animation wasn’t bad but the graphics were bad which is understandable, story is still a mess and the cinematography for this episode was actually awful like holy shit I couldn’t tell what was going on with all the cuts and flashing lights
 
Dec 30, 2017 8:11 AM
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Rahkshilord said:
Wow look at all these god damn animators clearly that means it looks AMAZING. Oh wait no it didn't this episode was a TRAINWRECK. The animation style changes every two seconds and so does the camera angle making the fights completely incomprehensible. The INSANE amount of bloom effects and impact flashes that fill every scene hurts my eyes so much. I really don't understand the praise this is getting, did you actually see the episode?

Sure some cuts might be ok but god I hated the overall package, well drawn cuts and lots of animators with a ton of frames doesn't add up to anything if the end result is a bloody incomprehensible mess that caused me physical pain to witness.


I agree, you can hardly see what the heck is going on. Explosions, tons of scene switches, then its all over. Couldnt really comprehend what was happening. Very dull to me, but a good episode
 
Dec 31, 2017 3:28 AM

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Atalanta and Jeanne battle was going good, but then it was interrupted...
In Karna's battle there was some issues with animations for sure, but it was a good battle, Karna had a great personality.
 
Jan 1, 2018 1:14 PM

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Well, well, well... this episode was something else wasn't it? The producers were deffinitelly aiming high there but unfortunately, there were times in this episode where it felt like the animation was either a mess or some scenes were unfinished at time, which is a shame because there were also many glorious scenes and masterfully done parts as well, especially Karna vs Seig part. So yea, even if it felt unfinished it was probably the best episode of the series.

Still while it was great, I am not sure whatever I like when studios suddenally explode with budget and quality just for a single episode while rest of the series was done in it's own consistent style.
 
Jan 1, 2018 5:02 PM

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Amazing episode!! Not really a fan of the multiple different CGI's and artstyle. Each scene keeps changing rather than being consistent.

I mean, just look at the environment and rocks. It felt unfinished, some of the rocks are just drawn pencils rather having a firm feel to it.

Karna vs Siegfried was awesome either way. I love how Karna was still being fair and being chivalry till the end. I guess all Lancers has those traits :)

Atlanta vs Rider was changed to Atlanta. Shame it ended a bit too quickly, but I understand since they wanted to save the goods for the last.

I really hope this will all be fixed in the BD version!

Last 3 episodes!!
 
Jan 1, 2018 5:09 PM

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Smoku said:
Garbage. I'm thouroughly disgusted by the shit quality of this episode. I'm taken aback by it, it's really bad.
Just smacking in a division of animators doesn't mean you can skip every 2 frames and change styles in seconds. It was a blend of everything which just makes it really bad.

If you liked this, then you must "enjoy" modern art and all that artsy ugliness that looks like a random piss of paint on blank paper. This was really bad to watch.


Ahh, the good old "if you like something that I don't, then you (insert insult)"
 
Jan 4, 2018 2:11 PM

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Wow, those motion animations all the time! Not bad, animator-tachi, not bad!! Although the charas could have been looking better in some frames. I can understand people not liking this style, but they should understand that the pure animation of those movements and stuff is not easy. But its still a series, no movie with more time and different standards (Ghibli or Shinkai), so dont expect a movement showcase like that with perfect lines drawn everywhere.

And luckily I saw some of my fav charas fight and/or die a good death this episode! I am really happy right now. ^^ Rly nice work! But why not the whole series in this kind of style, A-1? It felt kinda out of place here and there.
Modified by summerwars, Jan 4, 2018 2:15 PM
 
Jan 6, 2018 10:48 PM

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Kittens-kun said:
Smoku said:
Garbage. I'm thouroughly disgusted by the shit quality of this episode. I'm taken aback by it, it's really bad.
Just smacking in a division of animators doesn't mean you can skip every 2 frames and change styles in seconds. It was a blend of everything which just makes it really bad.

If you liked this, then you must "enjoy" modern art and all that artsy ugliness that looks like a random piss of paint on blank paper. This was really bad to watch.


Ahh, the good old "if you like something that I don't, then you (insert insult)"


Ahh, the good old "I don't have anything to respond to this critique"
 
Jan 6, 2018 11:15 PM

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Smoku said:
Kittens-kun said:


Ahh, the good old "if you like something that I don't, then you (insert insult)"


Ahh, the good old "I don't have anything to respond to this critique"


Critique wouldn't be the word I'd use. More like elitist bullshit.
 
Jan 9, 2018 3:49 AM
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Honestly, for me, the fight between Karna and Sieg is really impressive and satisfying, both of them really use their maximum power, although Astolfo is interfering them at the end. But, I'm not satisfied with Atalanta vs Ruler, and Atalanta vs Achilles after that, it's like there is something off, but actually this is a pretty impressive episode!!
 
Jan 11, 2018 3:52 PM

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Sorry, but no. The animation of this episode was all over the place to the point it was almost unable to see what's happening on screen. It was all action for sake of director's artistic vision not for sake of the story.
And speaking of characters decision... this is not Fate for me, they are just doing dumb things for sake of looking cool. It's like the series doesn't take the franchise seriously yet it tries to look even more serious by itself. Powerlevels were all over the place and it really bothers me they don't even care about it (well, this probably applies to whole this series but it was more than evident in this very episode).

I can imagine why people are liking this episode but for me it just forsake everything that made Nasuverse good in the past.
 
Jan 12, 2018 5:25 AM

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I thought this episode's animation was rather nice. There were things that I didn't care for, but the good far outweighs the bad.

It's clear that the focus was placed on the transitions, rather than the individual frames. This worked well for high speed sequences, but some of the slow-moving (and near stationary) parts could've used more detail.

Beyond that, I found the contrast between styles a bit too jarring - both compared to other episodes, and within the episode itself. Not the end of the world, but sometimes distracting. The 3D style near the end didn't help. (And then there were things that I didn't agree with from a more subjective, stylistic standpoint.)

All in all it was pretty good, not amazing, but it was good fun to watch.
 
Jan 13, 2018 1:59 PM

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Oh look, finally a decent episode with decent animation.
 
Jan 21, 2018 6:39 AM

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Fappa said:
Well if anything this episode will show how little some people understand about animation.
I already see the complaints about character going off model ( which is essential for fluent animation with great cinematography to work ) in stead of staying perfectly on model with merely mouth flaps and very limited movement.

They pulled all stops this episode and it was a blast, a visual treat.

Well said. This episode was great. It's a pity how a lot of people can't spot good quality when they see it.


 
Jan 28, 2018 11:18 AM
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Kitoge said:
I'm afraid that I'm going to have to join the group that disliked the animation. I thought it was poorly done. I don't mind if you liked it, but if you're going to say that was the best animated fight scene in the Fate series, you must be out of your mind. Movements were not fluid; background art was ridiculously poor. I thought they were on the moon for the entirety of the fight. Just because there was some flashy blue and red colors coming out of their weapons doesn't mean it's well animated. Hopefully they fix it up later. I enjoyed ufotable way more


this, after reading tons of comments i wonder if people watched a different episode
 
Feb 1, 2018 1:34 PM

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Really bad animation + alot of terrible derp frames IMHO
I really don't understand how it's good but I'll just have to rewatch it in 60fps, but for now it didnt really click with me.
In other words, felt like I was watching a different anime and the transition was so...so bad, if the style was like this from the beginning, I woudn't be complaining right now.
 
Feb 4, 2018 8:31 AM
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Seriously, the characters looked terrible in this episode but I didn't care because you need to sacrifice quality in order to acquire fluidity, exactly like Naruto.

But seriously, Karna vs Sieg was a mess, if you guys think godlike animation is billion rocks flying, 10 explosions per second at 60fps that totally blocks the vision of what the characters are doing, then I don't know what good animation is.

Joanna and Acquiles vs Atalanta was so much better, the background was shit but the animation was on top.
Modified by Zangetsu276, Feb 4, 2018 8:35 AM
 
Feb 7, 2018 3:52 PM

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Good that Archer of the Red is dead. Cool fight. 3/5
Life has no meaning.
 
Feb 8, 2018 4:32 PM

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Yeah, if someone says that this is bad animation, I'd have to question if their eyes are functioning properly or not.
 
Feb 13, 2018 11:52 PM

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Animation was all over the place in this episode. I'd call it a stylistic thing, but eh who knows. Probably just some pragmatism to show some frames for fluidity. I thought the fights were really cool. I'll say there were too many explosions in the fight between Karna and Sieg like it was to fill in time though.

Hope the animation matches up with what it was like early in the series, but if not I'll deal with it.

On the other hand this series gave a lot of amusing shots of characters' oddly placed eyes during conversations/stills in the recent past episodes and also maybe this one.

Karna's reasons for fighting match up with his base myth interestingly as well.

Then there's how Sieg said he would protect Ruler and then Achilles ends up interrupting her fight with Atalante. Riiiight haha.
Modified by Toxic_Mongoose, Feb 13, 2018 11:56 PM
 
Feb 14, 2018 6:58 PM

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Shawn_Jones said:
Z4k said:

Did you just create an alt account to say that? lol what a pussy.
No actually I made a account just so I could comment on this stupid statement. I don't sit and debate with a bunch of crybaby fan boys.


You created an account to be completely wrong. That's just sad.
In 9/10 cases, the worst thing about an anime is its fandom.
 
Feb 22, 2018 4:25 AM

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Uh wow 333 quotes... A record at least by what I've seen so far (not counting big names anime (apocrypha is a new anime, only with fate name though))

The animation ticks me off. Not really bad nor good, just... Unusual...
And why.... Atalanta died... Achilles followed too... I actually wished they kissed though before disappearing but... No way I guess...
Life isn't as fun and easy as anime.
Watch anime to bring that fun!!
 
Mar 2, 2018 7:50 PM

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Wtfff.
I think apo is a really bad anime but I've got an orgasm with this ep.
They call Yuasa or what ?
 
Mar 4, 2018 4:47 AM

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HOLY SAKUGA! The animation this episode was on point!
 
Mar 13, 2018 11:28 PM

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Really hated the animation in this episode. It felt like a completely different show. I would have been fine with it if the rest of the series was like this, but it all felt so out of place. I'm not really a fan of trigger and the over-the-top fights with explosion everywhere for no good reason. There is no way this fight actually happened on the hanging gardens as it would have been blown to bits. The sense of scale is completely off. This would have been great animation if it were in a different series, but this felt so off and different that it really took me out of the moment.
I don't accept random friend requests, but feel free to PM me if you want to talk about something i've posted or talk about some anime/manga that i've seen.

 
Mar 27, 2018 5:40 AM
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I understand that the majority of this episode was sakuga, and the action scenes are *technically* well done, but I can't say I enjoyed them. In a different anime I could appreciate animation like this, Mob Psycho 100 and the infamous Pain vs Naruto fight comes to mind, but the difference here is that for the entire show bar a single part with Frankenstein has stayed true to a very clean artstyle. Suddenly smoothing out the line definition, fudging anatomy and adding ridiculous choppiness just didn't work for me at all. I far preferred Vlad vs Karna and Achilles vs Chiron to any of the fights in this episode. The sudden change in artstyle might've worked if I was watching this week-by-week, but I watched this episode right after the previous one, so the immense change in artstyle was super jarring and distracting.

Aside from that, I didn't like Karna vs Sieg at all. Achilles's noble phantasm was a huge ass pull and honestly shouldn't have even been enough, Karna was pretty well established as a massively strong opponent able to fight Vlad on his own territory, yet he was defeated by a gimped version of Siegfreid? Not in my book.
 
Apr 6, 2018 10:46 PM

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This show is unraveling like a crumbling Reality Marble in regards to the plot, fights, choreography, directing, script, art, animation, and so on...
 
Dec 14, 2018 8:58 PM

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In terms of animation, this beats ufotable :/
As for the choreography though, shit was all over the place
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Jan 26, 8:18 PM

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red-tomato said:
In terms of animation, this beats ufotable :/
As for the choreography though, shit was all over the place

yep, i agree. the fluidity was exceptionally good, but the camera angles they picked were really bad.

really hard to understand what's going on at times, explosions everywhere, melting ground, giant ass beams, it's clearly a failure from an observer's point.
i understand that they tried to show it as something really grand, but goddamn, at least move the camera away a little bit so i can see the full picture,
not just a laser beam covering 80% of the screen
 
Mar 29, 2:51 AM

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Easily the best looking episode of the show so far. BAHI JD is simply the man.
 
Jun 6, 8:14 AM
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Best episode of the show , I can now say that Greek Heroes are the bests.
yikes
 
Jun 24, 8:57 AM

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Canksilio said:

Aside from that, I didn't like Karna vs Sieg at all. Achilles's noble phantasm was a huge ass pull and honestly shouldn't have even been enough, Karna was pretty well established as a massively strong opponent able to fight Vlad on his own territory, yet he was defeated by a gimped version of Siegfreid? Not in my book.


Don't forget that Sieg used CS to boost his NP too.

If 1 = 2, then everything is good.
 
Jul 4, 4:06 PM
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Can someone please explain why the animation is so bad this episode? It looks like I'm watching Voltron. LOL, did that Chiron and Achilles' fight scene blow through their budget? I hope the animation will be better next episode.
 
Jul 11, 12:36 PM

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Haha I knew people would discuss the animation style first of all. It was clear they changed the animation director/team this time. They used that weird animation style which sacrifices good art for good animation. And I'm not a fan of that in the slightest, as mentioned already it reminded me of the fight Naruto vs Pain. I don't really care how much money they used to buy how many freelancer animators, to me this style of animation just looks whack and sloppy.

Great animation - horrible art.
Modified by Gator, Jul 11, 12:43 PM
 
Jul 14, 7:02 PM

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that was like fireworks for my eyes times 100

Karna and Sieg, what a show
 
Jul 30, 5:48 PM

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The lack of understanding of people in this thread about what is good and bad animation is baffling as hell. I completely understand people can like or dislike this episode and how the visuals look and feel but if we take the word "animation" to its core so "drawings that moves fluidly" this is UNDENIABLY good animation.

I think most of the audience were so used to see stiff and unmoving shots in F/A which is BY FAAAAAR the ugliest Fate anime (F/SN 2006 has better chara-design, animation and effects, the same for FGO and Last Encore has a better color palette and CGI) that they got completely took off guard by how fluid and quick things hare happening here.

But still I can find a problem with this episode, we don't care and F/A do not deserve such talented work invested for this pointless of a scenario. Even if characters feels more alive and interesting (probably due to the change of director) Karna still is bootleg Gilgamesh, Jeanne is BLAND, Sieg is so boring it makes Shirou the greatest hero of history, Achilles is bootleg Cu Culain and Atalante is just a straight out crazy bitch and no one wants to root for her.
 
Sep 3, 1:25 AM

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Moekou said:
Woodfall said:
Karna - Biggest bad ass in the show imo and wow is he OP. He actually had them save his old masters even though he wasnt their servanr anymore! He fights his opponents with honor and wishes Sieg the best when he is defeated. Probably my favorite servant in this show and now it is sad to see him go.

Karna is someone Gilgamesh acknowledged he'd have to go all-out against. He's sort of a foil for Gilgamesh, who looks down on the weak and hoards all treasures, while Karna is known as the Hero of Charity, willing to give even his most prized possessions away to beggars.

Thanks for the background. :)

Karna is cool. He is kind of what Gilgamesh could have been if only he weren't such a petty asshole.

Frozenkex said:
It feels like the author wrote himself into a corner

it was foreshadowed and obviously planned from very beginning. Servants with such fitting history and abilities to enable what happened couldn't have been a coincidence. Achiles shield is the only thing in the whole story that could possibly stand up to Vasavi Shakti.

Where was it foreshadowed? I don't remember Achilles' shield being important before this. It is possible that I missed something. Which episodes was it in?

This whole animation debacle is interesting. Amid all the namecalling I have been able to glean that apparently this animation is considered technically good because of the fluidity of motion - each frame moves, which is apparently not always the case. I gather that this fluid-movement-in-every-frame thingy is what people call sakuga 作画.

I personally found the fights in this episode very ugly. But I gather that many people like it. These may be the same people who enjoy the look of Devilman Crybaby. I've seen that show praised for good animation. To my eyes, Devilman Crybaby is so ugly that I cannot bear to look at it - so I don't. But to each his own. This episode has the same, albeit to a much lesser degree.

A shame that this debate had to devolve into a poop-flinging fest.
 
Sep 7, 3:21 AM

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Oh my God! The animation in this episode was incredible! I've been looking forward to watching this episode because I've heard good things about it and I was blown away.
 
Oct 4, 9:47 AM

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I'm very dissapointed with the direction of this episode, specially how they handled Karna vs Sieg battle (instead of a great battle with a good choreography, we got just a bunch of pretty fireworks).
 
Oct 16, 12:02 PM

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I really dislike this series, the army of characters that mean nothing to me, the terrible animation this episode, even the sound sounded awful on my home cinema system. I don't even know if I'm gonna finish the series. It's been taking a silly long time to get this far and I just don't care anymore. People actually liking and defending this boggles my mind lol.
 
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