| I don't get why people are so sentimental about archaic institutions like marriage. Just legalize that shit for everyone so every soul has an equal opportunity to domestic misery. |
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| Something similar to same-sex marriage existed already. (Different name for it.) I think now it is only about minor details maybe regarding taxes and afaik especially about adopting kids (where same-sex couples have been at disadvantage). But then again the tax system is really stupid here. We have an income tax increasing progressionally and married couples where one person earns a lot more than the other person can save income taxes by marrying. This was intended to support families (with kids ... cause kids are important for a national economy/demographics). A lot of people marry just to save money ... not even intending to have children. Homosexuals can adopt children or get (at least partially) own children with certain means. Tax benefits should be given for actually existing children in family ... or if one of the 2 partners (from a married couple) can't work cause of permanent illness/disability (so the remaining other person has more money left for himself and to support the other person). But then again the Mehrwertsteuer/Umsatzsteuer (value-added-tax / VAT) is also stupid. Pet food gets a discounted tax rate. Diapers (for children) get the normal rate. (Afaik ... and the liberal party the FDP - wanted to change this often in the past but when they were in a coalition with the CDU ... conservatives ... they could not push through changes or they didn't even seem to care about it anymore after elections. No wonder they did not pass the 5 percent barrier last elections 4 years ago.) |
Seiya said: Aureolus said: I don't have to give my reasoning for my opposition to homosexuality. Oh, I actually think that you do. I suspect that a large number of homosexuals were molested as children. I've seen plenty of anecdotal evidence to this effect. Maybe there is hard evidence out there as well. Generally, I think there has to be something traumatic in order to invert someone's life-giving capabilities in such a way. It's not some mistake that the gay "community" is filled with such degeneracy as "bug chasing", higher tendency toward pedophilia, etc. I don't go full Muslim on them or anything though. I say leave them alone, but no gay pride parades. Russia has a decent attitude toward this issue. I guarantee that if a cure is invented, most gays will use it. OT: Perhaps Germany hasn't legalized gay marriage in anticipation of the coming Caliphate. No point legalizing it just to have it smacked down by the Muslims immediately after. |
JustALEX said: Yeah....cuz it's totally natural for someone who doesn't live in a country that is 5,000 miles away to know the intricate laws of said country. And I was trying to give Germany credit here....I thought they DID have it because I know Germany has progressed a lot. Yeah, well this is the reason why almost all your claims are false. Rather than researching things, you almost assume 90% of the things you say JustALEX said: But I can't say I'm surprised by you quoting me though....stop obsessing about the things I say. Yeah, I am not obsessed about you. Nice try tho |
swirlydragonJun 28, 2017 5:46 AM
 Join Emilia's self-proclaimed knights club if you are a fellow Emilia fan |
Altairius said: Nope, we haven't legalized it, because at the Time when we changed the Laws, we had only introduced a Civil Union. That was more than 15 Years ago in 2001. The Advantage of calling it "Civil Union" was, that the Marriage could retain its special Protection under Article 6 Basic Law: OT: Perhaps Germany hasn't legalized gay marriage in anticipation of the coming Caliphate. No point legalizing it just to have it smacked down by the Muslims immediately after. "(1) Marriage and the family shall enjoy the special protection of the state." It's a legal Question whether or not "Marriage" is defined as being between a Man and a Woman only. traed said: Do you know the Difference between wanting to go to the other Direction and wanting to preserve the Status Quo? There isn't just Black or White. I am more than fine with the current Laws and I'd like for them to stay how they are. Noboru said: I didn't say that is what you want I said if you were logically consistent that is what you would want. If you're not logically consistent chances are your reasoning is not logical but emotional. That's a Reductio ad absurdum. Just because I don't want further Deviation, I don't have to want to enforce more strict "Straightenments" or how you want to call the Process of having a proper Family and punishing everyone who deviate from the Path. |
Altairius said: I suspect that a large number of homosexuals were molested as children. I've seen plenty of anecdotal evidence to this effect. Maybe there is hard evidence out there as well. Generally, I think there has to be something traumatic in order to invert someone's life-giving capabilities in such a way. It's not some mistake that the gay "community" is filled with such degeneracy as "bug chasing", higher tendency toward pedophilia, etc. I don't go full Muslim on them or anything though. I say leave them alone, but no gay pride parades. Russia has a decent attitude toward this issue. I guarantee that if a cure is invented, most gays will use it. If this is what you actually believe, then I strongly suggest that you seek psychiatric evaluation. |
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Noboru said: traed said: Do you know the Difference between wanting to go to the other Direction and wanting to preserve the Status Quo? There isn't just Black or White. I am more than fine with the current Laws and I'd like for them to stay how they are. I didn't say that is what you want I said if you were logically consistent that is what you would want. If you're not logically consistent chances are your reasoning is not logical but emotional. Why support status-quo ? |
traed said: Because a Civil Union gives already pretty much equal Rights while still protecting the Concept of Marriage as something special, from which a normal, healthy Family with one Father, one Mother and one or more Children shall be formed. Why support status-quo ? Also, because we have way more pressing Issues. I wonder why you don't hear that much from the Greens about ecological Topics like the Nuclear Waste Transport on a River. Oh wait, I forgot that "Green" doesn't stand for Ecology any longer, but for Anti-German, Multikulti and Decadence. |
Noboru said: traed said: Because a Civil Union gives already pretty much equal Rights while still protecting the Concept of Marriage as something special, from which a normal, healthy Family with one Father, one Mother and one or more Children shall be formed. Why support status-quo ? Also, because we have way more pressing Issues. I wonder why you don't hear that much from the Greens about ecological Topics like the Nuclear Waste Transport on a River. Oh wait, I forgot that "Green" doesn't stand for Ecology any longer, but for Anti-German, Multikulti and Decadence. Oh, so same-sex marriage isn't "healthy" to you? If you think that your opinion is so correct, do this: Say the word "Squirrel." People who can't say squirrel properly are not in their right minds. |
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Altairius said: I suspect that a large number of homosexuals were molested as children. I've seen plenty of anecdotal evidence to this effect. Maybe there is hard evidence out there as well. Generally, I think there has to be something traumatic in order to invert someone's life-giving capabilities in such a way. It's not some mistake that the gay "community" is filled with such degeneracy as "bug chasing", higher tendency toward pedophilia, etc. I don't go full Muslim on them or anything though. I say leave them alone, but no gay pride parades. Russia has a decent attitude toward this issue. I guarantee that if a cure is invented, most gays will use it. OT: Perhaps Germany hasn't legalized gay marriage in anticipation of the coming Caliphate. No point legalizing it just to have it smacked down by the Muslims immediately after. I suspect a large number of white nationalists were molested as children. I've seen plenty of anecdotal evidence to this effect. It's not some mistake that the white nationalist community is filled with such degeneracy as furries and higher tendency toward pedophilia, etc. Noboru said: traed said: Because a Civil Union gives already pretty much equal Rights while still protecting the Concept of Marriage as something special, from which a normal, healthy Family with one Father, one Mother and one or more Children shall be formed. Why support status-quo ? Also, because we have way more pressing Issues. I wonder why you don't hear that much from the Greens about ecological Topics like the Nuclear Waste Transport on a River. Oh wait, I forgot that "Green" doesn't stand for Ecology any longer, but for Anti-German, Multikulti and Decadence. It gives rights but not all of them. Also civil unions also arent recognised in some other countries or have even less rights if they are which applies if they were to move or something. Unfortunately im a bit unclear on what rights are missing. You're implying homosexual marriage isn't special and that it is unhealthy for a family? You think homosexuality is a decadence and anti-german? |
traedJun 28, 2017 10:01 AM
Altairius said: I suspect that a large number of homosexuals were molested as children. I've seen plenty of anecdotal evidence to this effect. Maybe there is hard evidence out there as well. Generally, I think there has to be something traumatic in order to invert someone's life-giving capabilities in such a way. It's not some mistake that the gay "community" is filled with such degeneracy as "bug chasing", higher tendency toward pedophilia, etc. I don't go full Muslim on them or anything though. I say leave them alone, but no gay pride parades. Russia has a decent attitude toward this issue. I guarantee that if a cure is invented, most gays will use it. OT: Perhaps Germany hasn't legalized gay marriage in anticipation of the coming Caliphate. No point legalizing it just to have it smacked down by the Muslims immediately after. I got to say, it takes some balls to push the "all homosexual are pedophiles" on an anime forum. Hint: It's not shota that is a mainstream fetish. |
Seiya said: I didn't say that. I said the Purpose of Marriage is to grant the Framework for a healthy Family with one Father, one Mother and one or more Children. Oh, so same-sex marriage isn't "healthy" to you? Say the word "Squirrel." People who can't say squirrel properly are not in their right minds. Not gonna upload any Voice Recordings, but this would be how I would pronounce it: /ˈskwɪɹəl/ I doubt you could say "Eichhörnchen" properly, though. traed said: As if changing the Name to "Marriage" would make them magically recognized in all Countries of the World.It gives rights but not all of them. Also civil unions also arent recognised in some other countries or have even less rights if they are which applies if they were to move or something. Unfortunately im a bit unclear on what rights are missing. Just the Adoption as a Pair and some Heritage Stuff if I'm not mistaken. Individually, they are still allowed to adopt Children. You're implying homosexual marriage isn't special and that it is unhealthy for a family? You think homosexuality is a decadence and anti-german? Nice Strawman. I said the Concept of Marriage is something special, aimed at building a healthy Family. I don't think but know that the Green Party is anti-German:And decadent: https://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=1583720 |
Noboru said: I doubt you could say "Eichhörnchen" properly, though. And why would anyone want to speak Crout/Kraut language? |
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Seiya said: Because German-speaking Europe is a huge Market and there are plenty of important scientific and philosophical Works in the German Language from the last few Centuries. For Instance, some ethnological Research had been only done extensively enough by Germans, so some lost Languages could be revived with the Help of German Notes:Noboru said: I doubt you could say "Eichhörnchen" properly, though. And why would anyone want to speak Crout/Kraut language? http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-06-19/rediscovering-the-kaurna-language-and-identity/8625612 |
Noboru said: Because German-speaking Europe is a huge Market and there are plenty of important scientific and philosophical Works in the German Language from the last few Centuries. For Instance, some ethnological Research had been only done extensively enough by Germans, so some lost Languages could be revived with the Help of German Notes: http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-06-19/rediscovering-the-kaurna-language-and-identity/8625612 German is considered a "Useless Language" in my country. |
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Seiya said: Noboru said: Because a Civil Union gives already pretty much equal Rights while still protecting the Concept of Marriage as something special, from which a normal, healthy Family with one Father, one Mother and one or more Children shall be formed. Also, because we have way more pressing Issues. I wonder why you don't hear that much from the Greens about ecological Topics like the Nuclear Waste Transport on a River. Oh wait, I forgot that "Green" doesn't stand for Ecology any longer, but for Anti-German, Multikulti and Decadence. Oh, so same-sex marriage isn't "healthy" to you? If you think that your opinion is so correct, do this: Say the word "Squirrel." People who can't say squirrel properly are not in their right minds. Actually it IS unhealthy by definition. A thought experiment: If you put things like cloning aside for now and converge both staight and gay relationships each toward infinity by assuming that the world only has straight or only has gay relationships, then how many humans would exist in 200 years in each case? In case of the former it's unknown but it would perhaps continue more or less as it had been until now. But in the case of the letter we might get to 0 or close to 0 instead, i.e. mankind would go extinct. So while perhaps it's not unhealthy on an individual level, it's certainly "unhealthy" for mankind as a whole. Of course that thought experiment is not so practical and less birthrate might be kind of helpful in some overpopulated areas, but it's a fact that homosexual people can't "create" new humans, unlike heterosexual people, technological methods aside. That alone might also create an unbridgeable "rift" between heterosexual and homosexual people in a sociological sense. traed said: Altairius said: I suspect that a large number of homosexuals were molested as children. I've seen plenty of anecdotal evidence to this effect. Maybe there is hard evidence out there as well. Generally, I think there has to be something traumatic in order to invert someone's life-giving capabilities in such a way. It's not some mistake that the gay "community" is filled with such degeneracy as "bug chasing", higher tendency toward pedophilia, etc. I don't go full Muslim on them or anything though. I say leave them alone, but no gay pride parades. Russia has a decent attitude toward this issue. I guarantee that if a cure is invented, most gays will use it. OT: Perhaps Germany hasn't legalized gay marriage in anticipation of the coming Caliphate. No point legalizing it just to have it smacked down by the Muslims immediately after. I suspect a large number of white nationalists were molested as children. I've seen plenty of anecdotal evidence to this effect. It's not some mistake that the white nationalist community is filled with such degeneracy as furries and higher tendency toward pedophilia, etc. I recommend you read that post again. I have never seen an attempt at sarcasm, that tries to point out supposed hypocricy, failing so hard. No offense. But it really goes quite far when you presume that the person you argue against would be willing to seriously "defend" the cause of why you think they think people come to believe in "white nationalism". Ironically it's actually true that "white nationalism" and other attitudes of discrimination CAN be caused by traumatic experience early in life, but not for the reasons you mentioned. I am personally aware of a particular case of someone who has multiple such attitudes against different groups for different reasons, actually. One cause is simply being "brought up" to think that that's how it is. It's essentially conditioning. The other cause is having had a "bad experience" that just so happens to perfectly conform to stereotypes of that group of people. This actually happened in the case of this person I know. "bad experience" might be anything, be it violence or getting conned by them etc., but it's important to note that hatred only gets created if the bad experience matches the sterotypes, so in a way it's an extention of the beforementioned case of "conditioning". |
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Grey-Zone said: Blah blah blah I can't help that you hate gay people. In North America, your opinion is a minority opinion, and nobody cares what you think. Next thing, you're going to tell me that you believe that there's an invisible man in the sky. |
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Noboru said: As if changing the Name to "Marriage" would make them magically recognized in all Countries of the World. Just the Adoption as a Pair and some Heritage Stuff if I'm not mistaken. Individually, they are still allowed to adopt Children. Didnt say it would but sometimes even if it's not allowed in a country it still winds up being legit through loopholes I guess. I found a link finally that explains the difference http://www.expatica.com/de/family-essentials/Getting-married-in-Germany_100926.html https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_Germany Apparently they can only adopt stepchildren. Why or why not should that be the case? Heritage? What would that imply? Do you mean inheritance rights? Do you or do you not think gay couples should be allowed to inherit their partners money if something happens to them? As for tenancy do you or do you not think they deserve the ability to own land jointly? Also it involves taxation apparently so why support bigger tax cuts for marriage but not civil unions? If you say it's for kids why would you want tax cuts for the married who dont have kids and not tax for civil partners who do have kids? Noboru said: Nice Strawman. I said the Concept of Marriage is something special, aimed at building a healthy Family. I don't think but know that the Green Party is anti-German: (Banner reads: "Germany never again! Against the Annexation of the GDR (German Democratic Republic/Eastern Germany)! Against German Nationalism!")[/spoiler] And decadent: https://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=1583720 Strawman arguments arent questions. Also you just repeated yourself. I asked you why uphold status quo and you said marriage is special and about building a healthy family. If you would agree that gay marriage is also special and can build a healthy family you didn't even answer the question properly because if it applies to both that isn't a reason to uphold status quo. That is why I asked for you to clarify so I know how to respond further. I wasn't questioning if the Green Party of Germany was anti-german. I was questioning why you would even bring that up because it seemingly implies you're saying homosexuality is a decadence. Do you or do you not think it is decadence to be in a homosexual marriage or relationship in general? and why or why not? Grey-Zone said: I recommend you read that post again. I have never seen an attempt at sarcasm, that tries to point out supposed hypocricy, failing so hard. No offense. But it really goes quite far when you presume that the person you argue against would be willing to seriously "defend" the cause of why you think they think people come to believe in "white nationalism". Ironically it's actually true that "white nationalism" and other attitudes of discrimination CAN be caused by traumatic experience early in life, but not for the reasons you mentioned. I am personally aware of a particular case of someone who has multiple such attitudes against different groups for different reasons, actually. One cause is simply being "brought up" to think that that's how it is. It's essentially conditioning. The other cause is having had a "bad experience" that just so happens to perfectly conform to stereotypes of that group of people. This actually happened in the case of this person I know. "bad experience" might be anything, be it violence or getting conned by them etc., but it's important to note that hatred only gets created if the bad experience matches the sterotypes, so in a way it's an extention of the beforementioned case of "conditioning". Altarius is a white nationalist. It's meant specifically for him and no one else. It's just so he knows how he sounds |
traedJun 28, 2017 11:48 AM
-Ouro- said: Bernrika said: I got to say, it takes some balls to push the "all homosexual are pedophiles" on an anime forum. Hint: It's not shota that is a mainstream fetish. He's a Neo-Nazi. Expecting anything rational out of him is pointless. - Neo-Nazi - During free time communicates with foreigners in a foreign language on an international platform that is centered around a foreign medium without even trying to force his beliefs on others I must have missed it when "neo-naziism" or "New National Socialism" stopped being an ideology whose members always did their best to "show off" how they can live without any "foreign elements" and also stopped being an ideology where refutation of one's own's views by someone else is considered unacceptable. I wonder when this ideology was reformed like this... |
Grey-ZoneJun 28, 2017 11:46 AM
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-Ouro- said: Grey-Zone said: - Neo-Nazi - During free time communicates with foreigners in a foreign language on an international platform that is centered around a foreign medium without even trying to force his beliefs on others I must have missed it when "neo-nazi" stopped being an ideology whose members always did their best to "show off" how they can live without any "foreign elements". I wonder when this ideology was reformed like this... This doesn't have to do anything with "forcing views on others," (even though that's the ultimate aim of Fascism). All it has to do with is his views being godawful. So? Doesn't change what I said in the slightest. You focus on characteristics that might match with Neo-Nazis but deliberately ignore those that don't match. That's called "confirmation bias", by the way. As for why I intervened: A true neo-nazi wouldn't ever write on this forum (unless we go to ridiculous ideas like someone being a recruiter or something). That's my point. And accusing people of being a nazi is a personal attack, i.e. and ad-hominem. Using it is often (though not always) an indication that you lost an argument. Probably doesn't apply to you in this case since you weren't the one arguing, but just jumping into a discussion like that with a personal attack that's obviously a hyperbole makes you come across as some unfriendly jerk, even if that's not what you wanted. |
Grey-ZoneJun 28, 2017 11:57 AM
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-Ouro- said: Grey-Zone said: So? Doesn't change what I said in the slightest. You focus on characteristics that might match with Neo-Nazis but deliberately ignore those that don't match. That's called "confirmation bias", by the way. As for my views: A true neo-nazi wouldn't ever write on this forum (unless we go to ridiculous ideas like someone being a recruiter or something). That's my point. Neo-Nazis still use these platforms, even if they are in part foreign produced. So since Stormfront is hosted on an international platform, that apparently doesn't make them Neo-Nazis? That's some extremely faulty logic right there. Stormfront is made by nazis for nazis - and it's a "bubble" of only (neo-)nazi views - that's clearly a false equivalence. You just jumping into a discussion out of nowhere with nothing to say about the actual ongoing discussion other than a general comment on the headline and a personal attack against a user also makes you come across as an asshole, even if that's not what you intended. |
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-Ouro- said: Grey-Zone said: Stormfront is made by nazis for nazis - and it's a "bubble" of only (neo-)nazi views - that's clearly a false equivalence. You just jumping into a discussion out of nowhere with nothing to say about the actual ongoing discussion other than a general comment on the headline and a personal attack against a user also makes you come across as an asshole, even if that's not what you intended. While that's true, keep in mind that Altarius's views still make him a Neo-Nazi, even if he's using a website that isn't a Neo-Nazi bubble like Stormfront or the Daily Stormer. And keep in mind that I did make an earlier remark about teh actual topic of marriage earlier. That didn't provoke anyone, but when I made a comment agreeing with a fellow user about a Neo-Nazi and how he said that all "gays are a bunch of pedos", that's suddenly a problem? No, his views don't make him a neo-nazi. Now I am still not entirely sure if he is actually German or not, but if he is, and if he truly was a neo-nazi, then he would even want me, a "2nd generation immigrant", kicked out of the country at the very least. I have not seen any indication of that being the case. Keep in mind that nationalist is not the same as a national socialist. People love to conflate these two, but it's not the same. And note your absurd absolute: you turned what he described as "many among them" into "all of them" to make your point stronger. That's usually an indication that your thinking is reversed, i.e. that you didn't look at the evidence (what he said) to create a conclusion (he is supposedly a neo-nazi), but instead the other way around - you started from the conclusion and THEN looked for evidence to support it with the filter of already being convinced of the conclusion turned on (confirmation bias). In other words, it's not that you "deduced" that he is a nazi based on what he said from beginning till the end, but instead that you were "convinced" that he is one after the first view words you read from him and afterwards anything you read from him is completely irrelevant, as it wouldn't change your view about him. Of course, there is nothing weird about that, as that's perfectly normal human behaviour. |
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Seiya said: I wouldn't generalize. Just because you and/or others you know don't have any Use for German, it doesn't mean that the Language is useless. Or else, there wouldn't be plenty of Jobs requiring the German Language, in Especial for Localizations and in the Fields of Business, Trade, Tourism and Research. Then the academic, cultural and economic Relations are of great Importance for both Countries.German is considered a "Useless Language" in my country. It's also a fairly wide-spread foreign Language. @traed: I'm not up for an Inquisition. The Main Issue is whether or not Gay Marriages are both a necessary and worthwhile Step for Germany and I would say you could eventually get all Rights (including full Adoption and Inheritance Rights and yes, I meant that one) without having to call it "Marriage". That would not only be the easiest Solution, it could also prevent possible social Rifts, legal Troubles, since the Concept of Marriage is especially protected by the Basic Law, and most important: you wouldn't need to waste Time with a Legislation of trivial Things that would affect only a Minority and could rather concentrate on the more important Topics. |
Noboru said: Seiya said: I wouldn't generalize. Just because you and/or others you know don't have any Use for German, it doesn't mean that the Language is useless. Or else, there wouldn't be plenty of Jobs requiring the German Language, in Especial for Localizations and in the Fields of Business, Trade, Tourism and Research. Then the academic, cultural and economic Relations are of great Importance for both Countries.German is considered a "Useless Language" in my country. It's also a fairly wide-spread foreign Language. Nobody speaks German in my area of Canada. English is the only language people speak here. Besides, you Germans don't even wash yourselves. |
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Seiya said: 1) Anecdotal Report. German is an important Language for the Businesses around the World, since they can get to know German-speaking and international Contacts around the World through various Trade-Fairs.Nobody speaks German in my area of Canada. English is the only language people speak here. Besides, you Germans don't even wash yourselves. 2) From where did you got that? We have invented several Soap Products like Carbolic Soap and created soap-free Cleansers and all other Kinds of chemical Stuff for Hygiene and Cosmetic. You must live behind the Woods if you have never seen a Schwarzkopf, Nivea, Frosch, Perwoll/Persil or any other Henkel or Beiersdorf Brand Product. |
NoboruJun 28, 2017 2:18 PM
Noboru said: Seiya said: 1) Anecdotal Report. German is an important Language for the Businesses around the World, since they can get to know German-speaking and international Contacts around the World through various Trade-Fairs.Nobody speaks German in my area of Canada. English is the only language people speak here. Besides, you Germans don't even wash yourselves. 2) From where did you got that? We have invented several Soap Products like Carbolic Soap and created soap-free Cleansers and all other Kinds of chemical Stuff for Hygiene and Cosmetic. You must live behind the Woods if you have never seen a Schwarzkopf, Nivea, Frosch, Perwoll or any other Henkel or Beiersdorf Brand Product. You really believe that Germans are superior to everyone else, don't you? |
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-Ouro- said: Grey-Zone said: No, his views don't make him a neo-nazi. Now I am still not entirely sure if he is actually German or not, but if he is, and if he truly was a neo-nazi, then he would even want me, a "2nd generation immigrant", kicked out of the country at the very least. I have not seen any indication of that being the case. Keep in mind that nationalist is not the same as a national socialist. People love to conflate these two, but it's not the same. And note your absurd absolute: you turned what he described as "many among them" into "all of them" to make your point stronger. That's usually an indication that your thinking is reversed, i.e. that you didn't look at the evidence (what he said) to create a conclusion (he is supposedly a neo-nazi), but instead the other way around - you started from the conclusion and THEN looked for evidence to support it with the filter of already being convinced of the conclusion turned on (confirmation bias). In other words, it's not that you "deduced" that he is a nazi based on what he said from beginning till the end, but instead that you were "convinced" that he is one after the first view words you read from him and afterwards anything you read from him is completely irrelevant, as it wouldn't change your view about him. Of course, there is nothing weird about that, as that's perfectly normal human behaviour. Even if he's not exactly a Neo-Nazi, his views (homophobia, anti-semitism, holocaust denial, support for authoritarian regimes, racism) align with a lot of Neo-Nazis today, so I consider him to be a Neo-Nazi as a result. So you're saying that I basically called him a Neo-Nazi without knowing it? I've lurked in CE and CD a lot, and whenever Altarius starts talking, it's usually him complaining about either "JOOOOOOOOOOS," "Muh muzzies" or "there wasn't any holocuast!". That's a pretty big indicator that he's a Neo-Nazi, or at the very least something close to it. So it's perfectly normal behavior to be get offended by me calling someone a Nazi? The things you list are not "core characteristics" of national socialism though. The primary one is still over-excessive nationalism and "purity", as well as having "no tolerance" for those who are "different". As far as I am concerned "just letting homosexuals be" is plenty of tolerance. As I said earlier I didn't get the impression that he wants me, a second-generation (legal) immigrant (who'd therefore be considered "unpure" by nazis and neo-nazis) to be deported. And even anti-semitism is NOT a core characteristic of nazism. It was merely that way in that particular instance of nazism. For example if Israel suddenly became a nazi state, they would obviously not have that characteristic. I know it's hard to view people as complex individuals. It's so much easier to instead push them into "ideological categories" and treat them as personifications of the ideology you project onto them, but that's an, from an intellectual point of view, outright pathetic action to do. It's, by the way, also exactly what the nazis did. You put a label on people and then treat them as "inferior people" in some way. Of course not to the same extent, but the basic principle is the exact same one. |
Grey-ZoneJun 28, 2017 2:23 PM
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Seiya said: Not to everyone, but we're certainly on the upper Level in Terms of Importance per Person and when it comes to the Contributions that have been made by those having grown up with the German Culture. You really believe that Germans are superior to everyone else, don't you? |
Noboru said: Seiya said: Not to everyone, but we're certainly on the upper Level in Terms of Importance per Person and when it comes to the Contribution that have been made by those having grown up with the German Culture. You really believe that Germans are superior to everyone else, don't you? Lass es lieber sein. Offensichtlich ködert er dich nur. Schau dir nur mal seine letzten Antworten an. Deutlicher gehts kaum. |
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Grey-Zone said: Alles klar.Noboru said: Not to everyone, but we're certainly on the upper Level in Terms of Importance per Person and when it comes to the Contribution that have been made by those having grown up with the German Culture. Lass es lieber sein. Offensichtlich ködert er dich nur. Schau dir nur mal seine letzten Antworten an. Deutlicher gehts kaum. @Topic: Like, as soon as this upcoming Friday perhaps Nope, because other than our Parliament (Bundestag), the Upper Chamber (Bundesrat; Representatives of the Federal States) have to agree, then the President has to sign the Law, then there is a Time of Transition and if the Law is deemed unconstitutional, you have to have a 2/3 Majority in Parliament to make Changes in the German Constitution, first. From what I've read, you can't count on it becoming Law before the End of the current Legislative. |
Noboru said: Seiya said: Not to everyone, but we're certainly on the upper Level in Terms of Importance per Person and when it comes to the Contributions that have been made by those having grown up with the German Culture. You really believe that Germans are superior to everyone else, don't you? Man, you are one conceited individual. |
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Noboru said: @traed: I'm not up for an Inquisition. The Main Issue is whether or not Gay Marriages are both a necessary and worthwhile Step for Germany and I would say you could eventually get all Rights (including full Adoption and Inheritance Rights and yes, I meant that one) without having to call it "Marriage". That would not only be the easiest Solution, it could also prevent possible social Rifts, legal Troubles, since the Concept of Marriage is especially protected by the Basic Law, and most important: you wouldn't need to waste Time with a Legislation of trivial Things that would affect only a Minority and could rather concentrate on the more important Topics. It's not an inquisition it's asking you to explain and defend the basis of your stances. Legal rights isn't an important topic? That would be fine if it was fully same rights but then that's just arguing against gay marriage from semantics at that point. If anything they should take away the legal status from ceremonial marriage all together and if people want to marry legal wise they have to alternatively or additionally do it through a sort of marriage department or courthouse. So this means people could marry for religious reasons and if they choose have it not be legally binding. So basically it wouldn't matter if gays could marry at particular churches or whatever they could just go to a place that actually accepts them or just skip the religious ceremonial stuff. The other alternative takes it a step further and would be to abolish legal marriage all together and replace it with certain benefits for people that live together and others for people that raise children and forms for inheritance and visiting rights although this gets a bit complicated dividing it up. |
-Ouro- said: Grey-Zone said: The things you list are not "core characteristics" of national socialism though. The primary one is still over-excessive nationalism and "purity", as well as having "no tolerance" for those who are "different". As far as I am concerned "just letting homosexuals be" is plenty of tolerance. As I said earlier I didn't get the impression that he wants me, a second-generation (legal) immigrant (who'd therefore be considered "unpure" by nazis and neo-nazis) to be deported. And even anti-Semitism is NOT a core characteristic of nazism. It was merely that way in that particular instance of nazism. For example if Israel suddenly became a nazi state, they would obviously not have that characteristic. I know it's hard to view people as complex individuals. It's so much easier to instead push them into "ideological categories" and treat them as personifications of the ideology you project onto them, but that's an, from an intellectual point of view, outright pathetic action to do. It's, by the way, also exactly what the nazis did. You put a label on people and then treat them as "inferior people" in some way. Of course not to the same extent, but the basic principle is the exact same one. So you're basically comparing me to a Nazi? Woooooooow. I find it funny that you didn't take offense that Altarius called gays pedophiles, but you took offense that I called him a Nazi. Are you seriously defending this guy? This tells me you have a certain sympathy towards people like him. Excuuuuuuuse me for not being kind towards someone who hates others and deems them inferior to others. There's no fucking way that racism or homophobia should be treated as something acceptable. You find it strange that i'm being harsh on Altarius, but he deserves it in the first place. He identifies with an ideological system that actively wants to exterminate other races, homosexuals, and other "subhumans." That's not a fucking good thing to be defending, nor is it a good idea to defend shitheads who spout conspiracy theory bullshit like "muh caliphate" and "muh JOOOOOOOOOOOs." So don't be surprised if I'm being harsh on him. Does it look like I care if he's not a 100% Nazi? He's a far-right extremist who hates a lot of people. And his statement "Just let homosexuals be" is contradicted by saying "ban gay pride parades" and praising Russia, which persecutes LGBT people both on a societal level and an legal level. So no, he's no friend to people like me. I love your apologist behavior towards Neo-Nazism. Much of Hitler's ( who mind you, was the guy who invented the Nazi ideology) based much of the Nazi belief system as hatred against the Jews. Gotta love hisotircal revionism, am I right? Having read Mein Kampf, the first part mostly consists of him ranting about how Jews are ruining everything. Seems to me like you're confusing Nazism with Facsism. Not al Fascists are Nazis, but all Nazis are Fascists. In terms of thought process you are indeed closer to nazis than @Altairius is. Not in actual policy of course, but the thought process is much more important. The difference is easy to spot: Altairius still falls short of completely generalizing a whole group as he uses words like "most", "many" or "have a high tendency to"... that's still quite generalizing and I actually consider this kind of thinking already bad enough as is. As for you? I see you using the words "all" or "every" constantly. Your habit of generlizing people is the worst kind of generalization, one I'd only expect from extremists. In good faith, I am going to assume that it's caused by the anonymity of the internet as, perhaps, a way to vent stress - and therefore not your "standard" way of thinking. But I'd still advise you to not do that if you can help it. It's a bad habit that will only cloud your judgement. And you don't seem to understand the difference between a concept and its implementation... anti-semitism only existed in Germany in Hitler's time because jews were a convenient scapegoat at the time. If the exact same concept of national socialism would have been implemented in Japan instead of its imperialistic one, then there wouldn't have been any anti-semitism there because there were virtually no jews in Japan, but instead some other "scapegoat", probably among the Asian ethnicities, in other words, it's not truly part of what defines a nazi. People often make the mistakes because of a lack of other "instances" of nations that operate under national socialistic ideology. What actually matters is whether or not scapegoats are used for the purpose of implementing extremist policies. How much someone actually hates a particular group of people in itself is completely irrelevant. |
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| If Germany does not want to worsen its situation, it is better to vehemently reject this tide of degeneration. In any case Germans, do not deceive yourself thinking that they return to Neo-Paganism with this kind of aberrations. Here I made a thread about the supposed "pro-homosexuality" of Ancient Greece. https://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=1632528&show=0#post1 |
_Nemrod_Jun 28, 2017 5:58 PM
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6Nimrod6 said: If Germany does not want to worsen her situation, it is better to vehemently reject this tide of degeneration. In any case Germans, do not deceive yourself thinking that they return to Neo-Paganism with this kind of aberrations. Here I made a thread about the supposed "pro-homosexuality" of Ancient Greece. https://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=1632528&show=0#post1 What the hell are you talking about? |
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Seiya said: 6Nimrod6 said: If Germany does not want to worsen her situation, it is better to vehemently reject this tide of degeneration. In any case Germans, do not deceive yourself thinking that they return to Neo-Paganism with this kind of aberrations. Here I made a thread about the supposed "pro-homosexuality" of Ancient Greece. https://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=1632528&show=0#post1 What the hell are you talking about? When he said her he meant germany. It was his native language slipping through. |
Seiya said: 6Nimrod6 said: If Germany does not want to worsen her situation, it is better to vehemently reject this tide of degeneration. In any case Germans, do not deceive yourself thinking that they return to Neo-Paganism with this kind of aberrations. Here I made a thread about the supposed "pro-homosexuality" of Ancient Greece. https://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=1632528&show=0#post1 What the hell are you talking about? I'm not interested in your opinion. Out! This is partially true. In Spanish language, sometimes nations can be expressed in masculine or feminine terms depending on the context. In any case, it is already corrected. |
_Nemrod_Jun 28, 2017 6:07 PM
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No, I mean that it sounds like he's saying that legalizing same-sex marriage in Germany is "degeneration" or something. @6Nimrod6: Where are you from? |
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| @Seiya People of my perspective have no inclination toward "bug chasing". Homosexuals have a very high tendency toward it. Given that, aren't they better candidates for psychiatric help? Mind you, I don't think they should necessarily do that. If they want to, fine. I think there will always be a certain amount of homosexuals. @traed I'm not willing to look it up just now, but if the victims of pedophiles are males at a higher % than the % of gay men in the population, then that in itself is evidence of what I've said (especially if it's as high as 50%). @Grey-Zone I lean libertarian on a lot of things, but I think you have to enforce certain things to maintain a generally liberty oriented social order. The main thing is that Western countries remain majority white. It's a mathematical certainty that as the demographics shift away from that, Big Brother grows stronger in near exact proportion. Voting patterns are the main evidence of that. Certain socially corrosive things have to be reigned in as well, and there should be incentives to increase births among the smarter segment the population and inhibit births among those who can't afford them. |
traed said: It is an Inquisition, because I don't recall you or others being that pushy for any other Topic. And yes, those few Legal Rights that are missing towards a Minority which aren't necessary for their Daily Lives are certainly a much less important Topic than something like Immigration Policies, the Pensions or the Energy Policies which affect everyone.It's not an inquisition it's asking you to explain and defend the basis of your stances. Legal rights isn't an important topic? That would be fine if it was fully same rights but then that's just arguing against gay marriage from semantics at that point. |
Noboru said: traed said: It is an Inquisition, because I don't recall you or others being that pushy for any other Topic. And yes, those few Legal Rights that are missing towards a Minority which aren't necessary for their Daily Lives are certainly a much less important Topic than something like Immigration Policies, the Pensions or the Energy Policies which affect everyone.It's not an inquisition it's asking you to explain and defend the basis of your stances. Legal rights isn't an important topic? That would be fine if it was fully same rights but then that's just arguing against gay marriage from semantics at that point. Just curious, what do you think of other countries that have already legalized same-sex marriage, like Canada, where it's been legal for over 12 years? |
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Seiya said: Canada has been a Multikulti Country from the Get-Go and it isn't that important to the World. The Rest either feature a Multikulti and/or Multi-Orign Society as well (USA, France, UK) or simply aren't that important to the World (Netherlands, the Nordic Countries, South Africa, Brazil, some Hispanic Countries).Just curious, what do you think of other countries that have already legalized same-sex marriage, like Canada, where it's been legal for over 12 years? Canada also doesn't have Problems regarding Immigration and Demographics. |
| I wonder when Saudi Arabia will legalize it. |
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| I'm happy about this. That is all. |
Take care of yourself |
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