Naruto: Shippuuden Episode 461 Discussion

What did you think of this episode?

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May 19, 2016 3:48 AM

Stark700

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Nov 2011

127893

THIS IS AN ANIME ONLY DISCUSSION POST. DO NOT DISCUSS THE MANGA BEYOND THIS EPISODE.
----------------------------------------
Ah more background storytelling about Kaguya's sons. Makes sense considering the transition and we also get a bit about their life too including their encounter with a toad. (that actually felt somewhat nostalgic seeing that).

Also some emphasis on the emphasis on the God Tree. The sorrow just never ends..

Stark700May 19, 2016 4:01 AM

May 19, 2016 5:15 AM

NaturalPerm

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Jan 2013

1544

Profoundly lame and not only because of the dumb story. The overall direction is so poor. I have to assume that the director either doesn't care or isn't good at what he does.

Feels bad when the final arc to such a massive hit anime is this much of a disappointment.

I'm pretty damn sure this wasn't even in the manga.

May 19, 2016 5:32 AM

Theorder14

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Jun 2011

557

wow, they're really dragging this on as much as they can.

May 19, 2016 5:51 AM

Semyel

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Oct 2015

Enjoying this backstory and finding it pretty interesting but the episode felt a little all over the place.

May 19, 2016 6:22 AM

TheEnhancedExe

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Mar 2016

464

The episode wasn't that bad actually. We found out some very interesting things.
Did noone else notice that the toad Gamamaru is actually Gamamaru, the Great Toad Sage, the old toad that's still alive in the current timeline.
We found out that Hagoromo didn't have the rinnegan from the beginning. He was actually the first to activate the Sharingan and not Indra.
And we found out that the Shinju can be used to create white Zetsu without using the Mugen Tsukuyomi. Kaguya probably didn't mind that her children have chakra as well at first because they weren't interfering with her plan. I assume she wanted to get their chakra back because they weren't using it to help her but to interfere with her plans. She probably had no intention of fighting her sons before they were interfering with her plans.

May 19, 2016 7:31 AM

thebrentinator24

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Jun 2014

6916

I hope this backstory on Kaguya finishes soon, while it's pretty nice to get some more information about her past, I'd rather just see the fight continue, even if it was underwhelming.

@NaturalPerm you're right, none of this was in the manga. In fact, Black Zetsu explained everything about Kaguya's past to Naruto and Sasuke in a single chapter. So this is definitely being dragged out.

People on MAL refuse to actually enjoy watching anime.

Your taste in anime isn't a personality trait.

May 19, 2016 7:39 AM

KenMasters34

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Sep 2015

Theorder14 said:
wow, they're really dragging this on as much as they can.

I was hoping that they would show the dreams of each person in the tree.

May 19, 2016 7:46 AM

KanameFujiwara

Offline

Jan 2011

340

It's about world building but yes it was done poorly. For an arc this important is it wise to rush? This is the problem with Naruto fillers - key arcs that need to be expand are horribly rushed.

Mod Edit: Removed quote of deleted post.

ArdanazMay 19, 2016 1:03 PM

May 19, 2016 8:07 AM

siki10

Offline

Dec 2015

NaturalPerm said:
I'm pretty damn sure this wasn't even in the manga.

They're actually doing a much better job than the manga did.

Next week's the last episode of the Kaguya backstory.

mod edit: merged double post

siki10Apr 30, 2017 1:15 PM

May 19, 2016 8:13 AM

#10

Kagami_T25

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Jan 2016

Omg! I'm so excited for next episode!! Kaguya's fillers/past is AMAZING!! 10 of the 10
^w^

May 19, 2016 8:25 AM

#11

Ulquiorra

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Feb 2013

24143

Interesting episode, the elder toad appeared!
Good kids shouldn't doubt their mother.

May 19, 2016 8:31 AM

#12

Dan-Te

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Apr 2014

399

Interesting backstory. I like the brothers Hagoromo and Hamura. And especially, I like the toad Gamamaru who is still alive. So in the end, the whole Naruto series can be summarized as one overshadowing conflict: Toads vs. Aliens!

May 19, 2016 8:38 AM

#13

Isterio

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Oct 2013

4275

The plotholes continue.

Nice job Pierrot, nice job please more dumb shit that makes no sense.
Kaguya established the ritual eoons ago, when she arrived maybe 20 years back on earth.

Hagoromo learning Senjutsu from the frogs could be adapted into canon.
Everything else was filler and him awakening Sharingan was dumb. Kaguya loved humans? When, when did she love them? Apparently she´s responsible for planting the tree and came after it. How do her motivations make any sense?

May 19, 2016 8:47 AM

#14

ibraheem234

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Dec 2014

12508

I kinda like this filler... I mean background. I still think Kaguya was not wrong

May 19, 2016 8:54 AM

#15

Isterio

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Oct 2013

4275

ShojoSamurai said:

That's what the villager's believe, since no one there remembers the era before Kaguya arrived.
Why Hagoromo awakening the sharingan is dumb?

How do they not remember an era that´s a decade ago?

This is not in the manga, calm down, Pierrot has done way worse fuckups.
Remember when some random guy used Gaaras Ultimate defense and Chibaku Tensei against Kakashi?

Pierrot Naruto part 1 filler!

Mod Edit: Removed baiting.

ArdanazMay 19, 2016 2:28 PM

May 19, 2016 9:09 AM

#16

Lelouch0202

Offline

Dec 2014

7040

Pretty decent episode.

It's all cool that we're receiving the backstory regarding Kaguya but honestly I just wish they'd end this and finish off the series.

Was nice seeing Toad Sage though and Hagoromo learning Sage Power.

May 19, 2016 9:14 AM

#17

milkydean

Offline

Mar 2015

239

Isterio said:

ShojoSamurai said:

That's what the villager's believe, since no one there remembers the era before Kaguya arrived.
Why Hagoromo awakening the sharingan is dumb?

Pierrot Naruto part 1 filler!

Bcoz Kaguya wiped there memories.Its mentioned in the episode by gamamaru.
I think you need to calm down, also good way to not answer why awakening sharingan is dumb.

Mod Edit: Modified quote of edited post.

ArdanazMay 19, 2016 2:28 PM

May 19, 2016 9:29 AM

#18

HimariHimatsu

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Jan 2015

I really enjoy these episodes because they kinda make a new series on it's own, Kaguya: Filleruden!

It almost feels like they rushed it as ironicly as that sounds but the great elder sage made up for it.

5/5

May 19, 2016 9:30 AM

#19

Fiji

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Dec 2011

6101

I really didn't expect that the Old Toad Sage is actually tad a bit older than Hagoromo and Hamura, he has been alive for a long time. It was quite a bit cool to see him teach Sage Jutsu to Hagoromo, although I wasn't expecting that there are lot of frog statues there already.

Judging from the preview, I think there is a dip in quality, with Hagoromo and Hamura's faces looks messed up to me.

FijiMay 20, 2016 6:55 AM

Signature removed. Please follow the signature rules, as defined in the Site & Forum Guidelines.

May 19, 2016 9:41 AM

#20

Isterio

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Oct 2013

4275

milkydean said:

Bcoz Kaguya wiped there memories.Its mentioned in the episode by gamamaru.
I think you need to calm down, also good way to not answer why awakening sharingan is dumb.

The frog never says anything about memory wiping, he only says that she took them out of the MS. That´s just you filling in gaps aka fanfiction.

Now to the Sharingan bullshit. Why should Hagoromo´s Byakugan evolve into a Sharingan when Byakugan is superior in terms of vision and only MS enables the hax techniques. Why is his Sharingan permanent? His Mother has a Rinnesharingan on her forehead but that´s a different concept and supposedly a superior version of the Sharingan granted to her after eating the fruit, according to the filler and also implied in the canon.
Why does his brother awaken Tenseigan which is the Byakugan equivalent to Rinnegan through training after several years (timeslot is unspecified, yet hinted to be later in his life). Too many discrepancies with the canon.

May 19, 2016 9:47 AM

#21

Ramkec

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Feb 2012

6701

"If you see me in the forest fighting a bear, help the bear"
- Toad Gamamaru

Looks like next week they'll rebel and seal her.

May 19, 2016 9:59 AM

#22

milkydean

Offline

Mar 2015

239

Isterio said:

milkydean said:

Bcoz Kaguya wiped there memories.Its mentioned in the episode by gamamaru.
I think you need to calm down, also good way to not answer why awakening sharingan is dumb.

Ok, you clearly havent watched the episode.Go freaking watch it, Gamamura says that Kaguya erases the memories of the on who she revived.
Hagoromo didnt have byakugan dude,Hamura did, and he just had white eyes.Those are not byakugan, else why would he ask Hamura to check for the boulder.Also Hagoromo will gradually have ems, and rinnegan after.And Hamura will have tenseigan.They arent fully fledged yet.

May 19, 2016 10:01 AM

#23

tsudecimo

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Dec 2012

24356

Another nice episode. I'm really starting to like Kaguya as a character. She only needed a bit of slowing down in the manga but her personality and backstory is all there.

I realized this a couple of episodes ago but her character design is beautiful and scary at the same time.

May 19, 2016 10:56 AM

#24

TheEnhancedExe

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Mar 2016

464

ShojoSamurai said:

TheEnhancedExe said:
Did noone else notice that the toad Gamamaru is actually Gamamaru, the Great Toad Sage, the old toad that's still alive in the current timeline.

We found out that Hagoromo didn't have the rinnegan from the beginning. He was actually the first to activate the Sharingan and not Indra.

And we found out that the Shinju can be used to create white Zetsu without using the Mugen Tsukuyomi.

A. It was rather obvious
B. We already established that Rinnegan is a mutation of Sharingan, no one is born with the Rinnegan. And also, nowhere has it ever been mentioned that Indra was the first to awaken the sharingan. He was born with the sharingan powers, like his father.

Kaguya > Rinne Sharingan
Kaguya's son Hagoromo > Sharingan
Hagoromo's son Indra > Sharingan

C. We already established that before. Go back and read the manga arc 'Kaguya Ōtsutsuki Strikes' again ;)

A. Well, it just seemed that noone noticed it because noone mentioned it and Stark only referred to him as a toad. And I don't think it was clear for everyone as his name wasn't mentioned that often in the anime.
I actually can't even remember the last time he appeared in an episode because it was so long ago.

B. I already know that, but at first I actually thought Hagoromo was born with the Rinnegan as Kaguya herself has the Rinne Sharingan, so I thought as she passed on a "great" amount of chakra on to her children, she could probably pass the Rinnegan on to Hagoromo. I just thought that way because it was only known that he had the Rinnegan but not that he once had the Sharingan. And I thought so because you need Hagoromos chakra to awaken the Rinnegan (remember what he told Naruto and Sasuke), so as he had his own chakra since he was born, I thought he already had the Rinnegan back then. But looking at it now, it makes sense, as

And I never said that it was mentioned that Indra was the first to awaken the Sharingan. He was just the first person known to awaken the Sharingan until todays episode.

C. I read the arc several times, it was only told that Kaguya used Mugen Tsukuyomi to create white Zetsu but in this episode, she didn't use Mugen Tsukuyomi. The Shinju probably kills all people who get too close to it and are too weak (most likely everyone without chakra) and traps the bodies in cocoons. It wasn't mentioned this episode but I believe, as it was told in the manga, the Shinju is already creating white Zetsu with these corpses. Prior to this episode, we only knew it was possible with Mugen Tsukuyomi, now we know it's most likely possible without.

May 19, 2016 11:27 AM

#25

HirasawaLucky

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Mar 2014

pierrot has adopted naruto manga became an anime serie very well. was broadcast as many as 461 eps in tv tokyo.do not you see? the frame of animation is very soft for this animation with the total of hundreds episodes like now.while fairy tail with the total of hundreds episodes is not as soft as naruto.we should thank to studio pierrot.do not you remember the epic episode?
shikamaru,kakashi,ino,kiba vs kakuzu and hidan.
itachi vs sasuke
team sasuke vs killer bee
naruto kyuubi vs pain
chiyo and sakura vs sasori
kakashi vs obito
general that epic scenes only for animation totaling around 20 or 13 episodes.and studio pierrot made hundreds episodes of naruto shippuden with a very soft quality
minato dan kushina vs kyuub (sad scene)
and before the death of itachi. the frame of animation its so soft.
.we should thank to the animators at studio pierrot, because they have made this animation frame is so very soft. even the A-1 pictures studio who mad fairy tail with hundreds eiposdes it is not soft as naruto. just see a simple simple movement like walking and hitting and you
You will know the difference between fairy tail and naruto.if you're an 2D traditional animator you will really understand the difference. you have to watch anime about how to making anime ''shirobako''.the core of all I mean is pierrot studio has adapted Naruto animation with quality as good as the animation of numbered a dozens episodes. although Naruto has hundreds eps now. imagine how many frames are created by the animators?
and this is not about a comparison between the story of fairy tail and naruto.it's about the quality of the animation movement. you have to watch anime about how to making anime ''shirobako''. if you're an 2D traditional animator you will really understand the difference.

May 19, 2016 11:49 AM

#26

AntonKutovoi

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Mar 2013

727

Art-wise, this episode looked like a complete piece of sh*t. Even by Naruto measures.

May 19, 2016 12:41 PM

#27

SecondaryH

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Apr 2015

1985

Interesting backstory. Why does Kaguya keep sacrificing people to the tree tho?

tsudecimo said:
Another nice episode. I'm really starting to like Kaguya as a character. She only needed a bit of slowing down in the manga but her personality and backstory is all there.

I realized this a couple of episodes ago but her character design is beautiful and scary at the same time.

Same goes for me mate. Alot of people dislike her tho.

Mod Edit: Combined double posts. Please use the edit button rather than making a new post.

ArdanazMay 19, 2016 1:35 PM

May 19, 2016 3:15 PM

#28

siki10

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Dec 2015

AntonKutovoi said:
Art-wise, this episode looked like a complete piece of sh*t. Even by Naruto measures.

It was outsourced.

May 19, 2016 3:31 PM

#29

thebrentinator24

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Jun 2014

6916

siki10 said:

Next week's the last episode of the Kaguya backstory.

I just checked the anime filler list website and looks like you're right, thanks for that information!

People on MAL refuse to actually enjoy watching anime.

Your taste in anime isn't a personality trait.

May 19, 2016 3:35 PM

#30

ArtimesGamer

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Jul 2007

6105

thebrentinator24 said:
I hope this backstory on Kaguya finishes soon, while it's pretty nice to get some more information about her past, I'd rather just see the fight continue, even if it was underwhelming.

@NaturalPerm you're right, none of this was in the manga. In fact, Black Zetsu explained everything about Kaguya's past to Naruto and Sasuke in a single chapter. So this is definitely being dragged out.

and thats a bad thing? You people act like the only thing that matters is canon story, as long as its not canon story you dismiss it as being terrible. Honestly! If this was canon, i don't think you would be complaining at all.

This arc has been actually pretty good, it helped fill in the plot holes left behind by the author, in establishing the ground work and history of Kaguya, her sons, and pretty much the origins of everything. Now if you want to get all that in one chapter from a single character (Black Zetzu's) point of view, thats fine with you. But i feel as though having a back story like this, give it much more substance and as a whole, adds more weight to the over all plot line.

Even after witnessing all this, it actually makes the upcoming final battle seem even more important now.

tsudecimo said:
Another nice episode. I'm really starting to like Kaguya as a character. She only needed a bit of slowing down in the manga but her personality and backstory is all there.

Exactly, thanks for clarifying this, at least some one sees the positives to this arc.

ArtimesGamerMay 19, 2016 3:40 PM

May 19, 2016 4:02 PM

#31

ZoroZoldyck

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May 2014

955

really liking this tbh.

May 19, 2016 4:45 PM

#32

Albi-kun

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Dec 2012

1486

So this is how Hagoromo came to be known as the Sage of the Six Paths. Interesting.

May 19, 2016 5:19 PM

#33

thebrentinator24

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Jun 2014

6916

@link9us
I never said I thought it was terrible. I actually find this to be a decent filler because, not only do we get to learn more information about Kaguya's past that Kishimoto didn't include in the manga, but also it feels like extended canon. And you're right, I wouldn't have complained if this was canon, because with each canon episode it means we're one step closer to finally seeing the end of an anime that should have ended a year ago. The only reason I said what I said was because I was under the impression that this filler would go on for a long time. However, now that I'm aware of the fact that it's ending next week, I'll go ahead and take back what I said about this being dragged out.

People on MAL refuse to actually enjoy watching anime.

Your taste in anime isn't a personality trait.

May 19, 2016 5:25 PM

#34

RediceRyan

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Jan 2013

11047

Good episode I thought.
Playing out like expected. Still where did Kaguya come from.

May 19, 2016 6:12 PM

#35

Milk_is_Special

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Apr 2014

11204

Wow, this episode looked bad!

May 19, 2016 7:31 PM

#36

LilyVarbik

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Jan 2016

644

Tree worshipping alien versus super powered hippie toad followers. 11/7

Hahahaha that guy got Hella caught

I was cool with Kaguya last episode, but this is harsh and is helping out naruto's (and sasuke's) argument against her.

These two brothers are honestly interesting me. A little #HYPEed over here.
So are all of them the white zetsu you knew during the war arc?

May 19, 2016 8:01 PM

#37

lonlonmi

Offline

May 2016

Kaguya's Byakugan is so strong that it can read feelings and thoughts. That is OP. Was this mentioned before? This opens up a whole bunch of questions and theories.

Is this a "Byakugan Princess" thing? Can Hinata do this? Does future Boruto have this power?

Seriously, Kaguya is such a pain. She's not even a ninja, but she is God level in every aspect of one, even clandestine work. In the Boruto movie it was cryptology, now interrogation. She even has a substitute for kunai and shuriken. I expect her to wield a sword soon. Such a shoehorn.

May 19, 2016 8:01 PM

#38

ArtimesGamer

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Jul 2007

6105

RediceRyan said:
Good episode I thought.
Playing out like expected. Still where did Kaguya come from.

That mystery question will be answered, as soon as the earth is invaded by saiyan like aliens and a hero has to rise up once again, but not to protect just the shinobi world, but the whole galaxy.

May 19, 2016 11:32 PM

#39

xull

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Nov 2015

2362

I don't really mind watching this filler, I actually liked it, Kaguya's past with more details, looks like the brothers are ready to fight her.

May 20, 2016 1:28 AM

#40

Isterio

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Oct 2013

4275

link9us said:

That mystery question will be answered, as soon as the earth is invaded by saiyan like aliens and a hero has to rise up once again, but not to protect just the shinobi world, but the whole galaxy.

I think it´s kept ambigious on purpose because once it´s settled there is no coming back. Currently there´s been no indication within the canon that they are aliens in the traditional sense.

They are otherwordly creatures which makes them alien by default, but it´s consistently implied that they are celestial beings. More mythical than scifi related. If Kishimoto and Toriyama sell the rights to Shueisha someday though, I can imagine them crafting some bullshit like the "Jump Multiverse".

Where they all come together, with Goku as the leader of the Jump superleague.

May 20, 2016 7:56 AM

#41

Wifikon

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Jul 2014

KenMasters34 said:

Theorder14 said:
wow, they're really dragging this on as much as they can.

I was hoping that they would show the dreams of each person in the tree.

i bet this is what we all want haha :D

May 20, 2016 1:23 PM

#42

lonlonmi

Offline

May 2016

Isterio said:

Guessing by the preview of the next episode, Kaguya can change the "World Memory" that Gamamaru explained when he was showing the past to the brothers with his crystal ball. The existence of a power that can falsify the truth of the past would be the most convenient plot device.

May 20, 2016 1:48 PM

#43

Resonance

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Jan 2015

671

Kinda normal episode, cool to see Gamamura in his early age.

May 20, 2016 4:09 PM

#44

cartoonartist

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Feb 2016

1117

it's interesting to see how everything in the world of naruto began and how the sage of the six paths came into being.

however i thought that hagoromo is the ancestor of hashirama, but he obtained the sharingan and hamura who actually looked like a uchiha or perhaps madara had the byakugan. also kaguya herself has the byakugan so what is the meaning of that ? does the byakugan actually rule over the sharingan ? and if yes, then what about the rinnegan, which is said to be the strongest power in this regard.

May 20, 2016 4:15 PM

#45

DarklordVor

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Mar 2015

7953

I can't believe when we get good fillers it's only 3 episodes meanwhile we got that horrendous chuunin exam fillers with months of stupidity.

It's pretty interesting to see Gamamaru's background. Not to mention the hint to Boruto movie when Kaguya keeps on looking at the sky.

It seems that black zetsu will be created in the next episode, Hamura and Hagoromo sealing Kaguya, Hamura sent to the moon as in The Last, dividing Juubi's power into the 9 biju, Hagoromo somehow gives birth to Isura and Indra, and we got shinobi world.

So much stuffs to tell, but they decided to do a very long fillers episode a few months ago. Just when we finally got good stuffs -__- next episode is gonna be rushed.

May 21, 2016 12:34 AM

#46

rahulgiri

Offline

Mar 2015

Why did Hagoromo has the sharingan?
I mean wasn't the Indra one who first had the Sharingan?
I think Hagoromo was suppose to have Rinnegan

May 21, 2016 2:21 PM

#47

iDensity

Offline

Feb 2015

1080

Now this is the kind of filler I wouldn't mind watching, new stuff... not BS dreams or that abomination chuunin exams that drag on for gawd knows how long.

Gamamaru's background was nice, didn't know the toads could live that long... Bakyugan also being powerful was good to know too, shame only one person (as far as i can remember) can do that.

May 22, 2016 12:56 PM

#48

neineineira

Offline

May 2016

The alien's motives from boruto the movie kinda makes sense after this episode, the tree drains the planet's energy like what happened to momoshiki's planet. Kinda explains how that place turned to a wasteland.

It also emphasize their arrival which kaguya was waiting since then.

May 23, 2016 5:43 AM

#49

PrOxAnto

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Jan 2013

6646

Liking this backstory, at least it's something new instead of the recaps, dreams etc.

May 23, 2016 8:16 AM

#50

kanto1994

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Jun 2015

How did kaguya use the moon when the moon was created from her two sons sealing her........

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