strider_91 said: Don't worry she hs just being tsun to tutturu. After all, it is becoz of her we are getting the saviour of animu s;g 0. Yaasssss Savior of animu! Still can't get down with the tuturu though. |
 Banner credit to @turnip |
| It's one thing if the character has good reason for acting like he does. Shinichi from Kiseijuu was a bullied kid got who thrown into a completely different world, and He had a genuine reason for acting that way, but eventually grew out of it. He actually progressed and developed. The only times I'll dislike a whiny character is when they stay whiny for the entirety of the anime. Having 0 character development doesn't usually sit well with me, especially when they have so much room to get better. |
 It's an entirely different kind of flying, altogether! It's an entirely different kind of flying. |
| How i think a character being unlikable/whiny as bad really depends on the anime. If the character fits appropriately in the anime, then i will either don't care about the character or think his good, otherwise his bad. |
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| If a character is unlikable, and is supposed to be unlikeable, good job animu. |
| Gilgamesh is egoistic bastard, always talk about his collection and all aside from him and some peers he choose are stupid and not worth his time. But his not that bad he make Kirei an interesting villain and praise that wimp-of-a-master of Rider for being loyal as his subject. |
-Senpai- said: Afro guy? Fucking shit tasteKonaKoffee4 said: I can see why people hate/dislike him, Light since the beginning has a pessimistic view of the world and suddenly he gets a God-like power, he set a high goal and the "end justifies the means" mindset just make him more dislikeable and basically all the story is him being a dick (a likeable dick btw) but idk, maybe if it was a person like that irl I would be like "Yeah, fuck that guy" but since it's just a work of fiction I just get lost in his evilness.Lol I know that. That was my point I was trying to make before. I like his character design because he acts the way he's supposed to. He's still a dick regardless and I don't like him. Go L! L is hotter anyways. And, don't like Kona, we all know that the hottest of the Death Note cast was that afro guy...  Matsuda > all |
 Nico- said: Conversations with people pinging/quoting me to argue about some old post I wrote years ago will not be entertained@Comic_Sans oh no y arnt ppl dieing i need more ppl dieing rly gud plot avansement jus liek tokyo ghoul if erbudy dies amirite |
| Fukcing plebs discussing why is Death Note's best boy when Ryuk is the true response. |
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| I don't think they're bad at all. They entertain me. Plus, the average person would be whining even more than them in a similar situation. |
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strider_91 said: Don't worry she hs just being tsun to tutturu. After all, it is becoz of her we are getting the saviour of animu s;g 0. I see. There is much tsun tsun on this site, even toward the clearly amazing tutturu. :'D |
| Signature removed. Please follow the signature rules, as defined in the Site & Forum Guidelines. |
| An unlikable character doesn't necessarily mean it's a badly written one. |
| I don't like whiny people so naturally I'll hate whiny bitch too. People only like whiny character when they stop being whiny at one point. |
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| 1) I disagree that being whiny is unlikeable, and tend to dislike people who claim that it is. There is only one thing that is unlikeable. It's being evil. When a character is doing the right thing, it doesn't matter if he lacks self-confidence and isn't a hot-blooded fool. Courage is not knowing no fear, it is knowing fear and acting despite it. 2) I think the logic in the opening quote is bad. Sure, NGE or Mirai Nikki could have Momonga the Overlord as a protagonist. Would it make the show better? NO. It sure wouldn't be NGE or Mirai Nikki anymore. If anything, it would have made the shows too easy for the protagonists. Evangelions can be so overpowered _because_ they can only be piloted by weak people. Kamina piloting Evangelion would have been boring and overpowered. 3) Some characters are just bad (as characters in a story). Some characters are unlikeable. These categories are not related. |
Illyricus said: I agree, who can hate Mayuri? I mean, how can you hate this cute, adorable and lovely face? Only a monster can hate that smile. We must protect it. Mayuri from Bleach is just one big stain on the name of science. I can understand it when the only scientist in the show is a perverted old man who designs giant robots that can only be piloted by little girls (but I still find in a bad thing). But to have all the show's scientists on the side of evil, and being the evilest beings on that side? That's pure anti-intellectualism. I hate that. |
| What makes a character bad is not their unlikable traits but rather the less developed they are as characters. As long as the character in question has a reason for acting the way he/she does, I don't care whether or not he/she is likable or unlikable. |
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| If the character is written that way and it makes sense in the overall story.... then that logic is just stupid. But if a character is just whiny just because.... that logic is sound. |
AltoRoark99 said: I never understood people's distaste for "whiny" characters. As long as they have a reason to complain, what's the problem? I'm sure all of you have been whiny at least once in your life. There is a huge difference between "once in your life" and "EVERY FUCKING HOUR YOU SPEND AWAKE". When the character, especially if it is the MC, whines 99% of the episode's span, in 90% of the episodes, it just fucking sucks. |
Seiya0890 said: But its still disgusting from my point of view, and from the word's point of view, therefore its disgusting. Wise words. |
| Do some people seriously put Tokyo Ghoul and Mirai Nikki on the same level as Gurren Lagann and NGE? OP: obvious answer is obvious, this logic is flawed. It has to be well done, though, otherwise it can be really cringe-worthy. |
katsaroulhs said: AltoRoark99 said: I never understood people's distaste for "whiny" characters. As long as they have a reason to complain, what's the problem? I'm sure all of you have been whiny at least once in your life. There is a huge difference between "once in your life" and "EVERY FUCKING HOUR YOU SPEND AWAKE". When the character, especially if it is the MC, whines 99% of the episode's span, in 90% of the episodes, it just fucking sucks. Again, if they have a good reason to complain, then I don't see the problem. Shinji Ikari has very logical reasons to complain. I just can't imagine acting any differently if I were in his shoes. |
AltoRoark99 said: katsaroulhs said: There is a huge difference between "once in your life" and "EVERY FUCKING HOUR YOU SPEND AWAKE". When the character, especially if it is the MC, whines 99% of the episode's span, in 90% of the episodes, it just fucking sucks. Again, if they have a good reason to complain, then I don't see the problem. Shinji Ikari has very logical reasons to complain. I just can't imagine acting any differently if I were in his shoes. Shinji is a VERY special case. Like, 1 in 1000000. |
Seiya0890 said: But its still disgusting from my point of view, and from the word's point of view, therefore its disgusting. Wise words. |
katsaroulhs said: AltoRoark99 said: Again, if they have a good reason to complain, then I don't see the problem. Shinji Ikari has very logical reasons to complain. I just can't imagine acting any differently if I were in his shoes. Shinji is a VERY special case. Like, 1 in 1000000. But he is hated just because he is whiny. This proves the simple mindset people have where any character who whines is deemed a bad character. Another example is Vincent Law from Ergo Proxy. |
| That's a valid thought process. If a character is supposed to be likable but he comes off unlikable then that could make him a bad character in the eye of the viewers. When you get to it, there is no clear and universal definition of a good character. Most people perceive it differently, from superficial reasons to critical reasons. Being Whiny with good reasons really doesn't make it any less annoying. This seems like a Shinji rationalization in particular. Sure, calling Shinji a bad character because he is a pussy isn't that valid but when it comes to it Shinji personality while intended to be that way can be looked at as badly written. The whole popular opinion of him being realistic is rubbish imo. His character never develops, it keeps going in a circle, this is particularly evident when after all Shinji went through in the TV series, he still keeps doing the same routine at the beginning of EoE with Misato. Not all characters needs to develop but Shinji had many reasons and conflicts to develop. And development doesn't necessarily mean he should become a ''tough guy'' but his character needed to change and have some decisive mindset. How he was basically the same character on repeat was more annoying to me than his whining. |
tsudecimoFeb 4, 2016 1:54 PM
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| They aren't bad, they are just less enjoyable, at least in my opinion. It's sort of like in real life, no one likes a whiny person, so why are they going to like a whiny character. Doesn't make the character bad, just unenjoyable and/or annoying. |
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AltoRoark99 said: But he is hated just because he is whiny. This proves the simple mindset people have where any character who whines is deemed a bad character. Another example is Vincent Law from Ergo Proxy. Shinji is hated because he is whining during times he shouldn't. And I didn't know Vincent was being hated. I found him awesome. |
Seiya0890 said: But its still disgusting from my point of view, and from the word's point of view, therefore its disgusting. Wise words. |
| bad character doesnt mean bad writen. |
 "If taking responsibility for a mistake that cannot be undone means death, it's not that hard to die. At least, not as hard as to live on." |
| I think the terms "likeable" and "unlikeable" are so poorly defined that they are basically useless. |
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katsaroulhs said: AltoRoark99 said: But he is hated just because he is whiny. This proves the simple mindset people have where any character who whines is deemed a bad character. Another example is Vincent Law from Ergo Proxy. Shinji is hated because he is whining during times he shouldn't. And I didn't know Vincent was being hated. I found him awesome. Whining during times when he shouldn't? What do you mean by that? Kuma said: unlikeable character doesnt mean bad writen. FTFY |
flannan said: Mayuri is actually very awesome, and he is not a bad guy.Illyricus said: I agree, who can hate Mayuri? I mean, how can you hate this cute, adorable and lovely face? Only a monster can hate that smile. We must protect it. Mayuri from Bleach is just one big stain on the name of science. I can understand it when the only scientist in the show is a perverted old man who designs giant robots that can only be piloted by little girls (but I still find in a bad thing). But to have all the show's scientists on the side of evil, and being the evilest beings on that side? That's pure anti-intellectualism. I hate that. |
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tsudecimo said: That's a valid thought process. If a character is supposed to be likable but he comes off unlikable then that could make him a bad character in the eye of the viewers. When you get to it, there is no clear and universal definition of a good character. Most people perceive it differently, from superficial reasons to critical reasons. Being Whiny with good reasons really doesn't make it any less annoying. This seems like a Shinji rationalization in particular. Sure, calling Shinji a bad character because he is a pussy isn't that valid but when it comes to it Shinji personality while intended to be that way can be looked at as badly written. The whole popular opinion of him being realistic is rubbish imo. His character never develops, it keeps going in a circle, this is particularly evident when after all Shinji went through in the TV series, he still keeps doing the same routine at the beginning of EoE with Misato. Not all characters needs to develop but Shinji had many reasons and conflicts to develop. And development doesn't necessarily mean he should become a ''tough guy'' but his character needed to change and have some decisive mindset. How he was basically the same character on repeat was more annoying to me than his whining. I don't even really get how some people can relate to Shinji. I mean you need to be exceptionally pathetic to be able to. There were several moments in the show that when things got better for shinji, they got worse soon after. When he made friends and one of his friends was going to pilot the eva and he had to fight him. That is a reason for him to fall back into despair. I don't think you considered how messed up the people who surround shinji are. They all use him and treat him rather poorly yet he still performs his tasks exceptionally well. You act like there has to be some linear progression to character development when that doesn't necessarily has to be the case. Especially in the case of evangelion, when the ending is shinji reaching that point where he accepts the pain and problems of others because that is the nature of human relationships. And he has to accept himself. Both the original end of the series and the movie say the same thing. Also, nice job insulting people. Jesus... |
Precisely. I still remember the moment where I facepalmed the hardest watching EVA. It was in EoE, a bit in the beginning and their base was under attack or something and Shinji did the whole fetus position routine with Misato. Felt like I was watching the TV series from the beginning. |
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| Well, he'd just been traumatized by killing Kaworu. |
tsudecimo said: Precisely. I still remember the moment where I facepalmed the hardest watching EVA. It was in EoE, a bit in the beginning and their base was under attack or something and Shinji did the whole fetus position routine with Misato. Felt like I was watching the TV series from the beginning. It's not like Shinji had pretty legitimate reasons for being depressed. |
| Too much whining is annoying. If all they do is whine, then I won't like them. |
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| People say that Makoto from School Days is a bad character because he's unlikable all of the time. They also say the same for Sekai from the same show for similar reasons, though I actually think she's a great character. RLinksoul said: I definitely don't agree that an unlikable character is automatically badly written. Instead of facing the threats and trials head-on, they behave "realistically" and spend the whole show crying and angsting, which can easily wear out its welcome. It says a lot that Madoka Magica's weakest aspect is almost unanimously considered to be its title character. Madoka doesn't just sit there and cry though, she tries to help her friends out on multiple occasions throughout the series. This argument doesn't hold any weight |
Eva1936Feb 4, 2016 4:32 PM
| Nah.. altering between hate and love at one character is easy, don't sweat it. I'm agree with that logic, what makes whiny character pissed me off is how their poor action, decision affect the whole series and change good anime into shitty/crap anime. a lame chara like TTGL's simone doesn't affect that much since kamina really takes the lead, and as the series continue he is change, he become better chara with good self-insert. But not many character like that, character's personality doesn't change fast, and watching a whiny character over 10/20-ish or even 1 season without change is annoying. |
Tarextherex said: That's very weak criticism made by bored sociopath nerds who had limited human interactions and want to keep living in their bubble of mediocrity. "Wahhh evangelion isnt super robot anime number 183748 the main char actually questions stuff wahhhh" If I "hate" a character is because he's terribly written/extremely one note. I hate all chars in mirai nikki, yuki sucks not because he's whiny but because he has literally no character except for wearing a hat, being good at darts and liking some crazy horrible waifu with no personality either(show has shit art too, fapping to anime is bad as it is but some of you be fapping on that mediocrity? Smfh). Elfen Lied characters aren't "realistic and flawed", they simply act in a way that actual humans wouldn't, but this is a stupid show with mindless violence so they GOTTA keep the drama going. Bonus one from a show that isnt offensive garbage that insults your intelligence: ginko from mushishi is bad too, how can you watch over 26 eps of him doing the same thing over and over? He's simply dull as hell and his rare humorous moments feel simply random, good episodic shows like Cowboy Bebop and many others actually has memorable multi-dimensional characters I agree with everything you said except for the Mirai Nikki part but only because I find Yuno an actually pretty good character. Other than that though, spot on |
| I disagree completely. Unlikable characters have their place and can still be well made. Unlikable people are everywhere and a well written piece of fiction can represent this well. Usually it's with 'evil' actions but doing it with 'whinny' or 'useless' actions is the same concept. |
Kuma said: bad character doesnt mean bad writen. Exactly. Sometimes a character is written in a way where you're not really supposed to like them. This is why I don't complain about people who dislike a certain character. |
| Banner credit to @turnip |
| A character could be considered "unlikable" or "whiny" while still being a "good" character in their own right. Of course, that depends on your definition of a "good" character. If that definition is "a character that I like", then they would not be a "good" character according to those standards. Alternatively, if that definition is "a character that is well-written", then they could possibly be considered a "good" character. I personally am in the latter group and tend to differentiate the characters that I just acknowledge as a "good" character from the characters I like. An example of this would be Lelouch Lamperouge, who is a character that I acknowledge as a well-written, complex character. However, he annoyed the fire out me. |
Illyricus said: flannan said: Mayuri is actually very awesome, and he is not a bad guy.Mayuri from Bleach is just one big stain on the name of science. I can understand it when the only scientist in the show is a perverted old man who designs giant robots that can only be piloted by little girls (but I still find in a bad thing). But to have all the show's scientists on the side of evil, and being the evilest beings on that side? That's pure anti-intellectualism. I hate that. I've never watched Bleach that far. All I remember is him being pointlessly evil and unable to even make a convincing "for science!" argument. He's killed all the quincy for his personal enjoyment, and hasn't actually invented anything, except not dying when he is killed (which is a bad thing of itself) . |
dizzyur said: I more often see criticisms directed towards people who like characters who are extremely morally corrupt as supposed to whiny. Take one of my top favs. I have been a target of such criticisms for liking him. "How can you like someone with so few morals? Eww, you're so gross!" Choke me. Character preference has nothing to do necessarily with the person who prefers them as far as personality goes, given the fact that I've had a pretty difficult life, and I'm a messed up person, and so is Nasujima, but that does not mean to any degree I approve of the fact that he's implied to abuse girls, launder money, and other acts that are questionable if not actually illegal. Of course I have a standard of moral, I just like messed up characters, I don't understand why that's so unfathomable? By no means does my favoritism towards a fictional man actually mean I support rape or misogyny in any way, and people need to stop comparing fiction to reality, especially in a series where the general consensus seems to be that everyone is in need of intense therapy due to the fact that they're all fucking nutcases. I find liking morally corrupt characters to be very hard to understand. What's good about them? Are all those Sudou/Oberon fans trolling? I mean I get it, Gilgamesh and Gasai Yuno are true to themselves and unconstrained by morality, and that makes them cool. But why corrupt characters? (By the way, I dropped Durara at about episode 1, so I have no idea what that teacher is like) |
dizzyur said: My interest may mostly stem from the fact that I'm fascinated by psychology, more so than that, highly imbalanced people who are to a point where they're irreparable... I watched a lot of crime shows when I was younger, and I was always interested in the nature of the people that were often profiled, even though they were, obviously, extremely bad people. Thank you for your explanation, now it makes a lot more sense. (But as I don't have interest in psychology myself, I still can't like that kind of characters) |
| Whining is fine with me, and it's usually pretty realistic given the ridiculous settings in some anime. It's silly to expect everyone to immediately turn into the team leader (or even the take action) type if they were thrown into a life or death situation. Though I do get really annoyed with protags who are physically weak or powerless in general, refuse to use underhanded tactics (because muh honor), and basically just go around preaching their morals while they stack up every possible disadvantage for themselves up till the last episode where they run at the big bad head-on. And win. I ain't about that. |
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| Whiny characters are annoying as hell especially if they lack common sense... sometime sIm able to ignore them though unless they do something so stupid and/or whiny that makes me roll my eyes way back I see my brain |
| 私はサイタマ様が大好きです。私は彼の雌犬です！ |
flannan said: If you watch the Hueco Mundo arc and this last arc, you will understand why the Soul Society needs him. He doesn't stop to being a jerk, but he is actually useful (saves Ishida and Renji, makes Ichigo reach the battlefield against Aizen, neutralizes an enemy who turn people into zombies, defeats an elite enemy along Nemu who makes everyone thanks him...) and his "evil" aspect is toned down. You have that image of him because you have only watch the arc when he is presented in the most negative light. I suggest you to watch Bleach entirely to have a better view of his character.I've never watched Bleach that far. All I remember is him being pointlessly evil and unable to even make a convincing "for science!" argument. He's killed all the quincy for his personal enjoyment, and hasn't actually invented anything, except not dying when he is killed (which is a bad thing of itself) . |
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