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| THIS IS AN ANIME ONLY DISCUSSION POST. DO NOT DISCUSS THE MANGA BEYOND THIS EPISODE. ---------------------------------------- Not surprised that Murasakibara is pretty OP in this series. His height has an advantage even during some of his younger days. Bit of a meh episode. It focuses more on their flashback or rather GoM's time together especially with Kuroko. Akashi still impresses more though with his abilities. |
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| Final and everyone's goal is different. They won, but the old coach fell. Everyone except Kuroko is becoming strong to the extend that it is scary. HiroC's character's father is so strict. Suwabe-san's character starts to not attend the practice by the coach's order, who also feels guilty because the staff is using the team. Purple starts to look down on HiroC's character. During the match that caused by the argument, HiroC's character's skill is used out of pressure. He became not relying the team anymore. Everyone else has also affected because of what happened. So it's like he got rid of weak self just to win, according to what he said to Kuroko. |
I ♥ Two Syaorans from Tsubasa RESERVoir CHRoNiCLE and TRC!!! |
| I am really liking this pacing. They are blazing through Teiko arc without making it boring. This episode has shown us the turning point of how the GoM changed. >.< Everybody is too strong that I feel bad for Kuroko. The coach was pretty disappointing too. |
| Signature removed. Please follow the signature rules, as defined in the Site & Forum Guidelines. |
| They rushed the whole Teikou-Kamata West match. I feel bad for coach Sanada. |
| I feel kinda sad that teiko arc is going on so quickly.. but the heart breaking episodes are starting now.. Mukkun had to do the thing and wake the second Akashi. Akashi helping on the aokuro break up. Aomine going on full emo and stopping coming to the practice. Everyone is too strong for their own good ;-; so emotinal rn ;-; |
_______________________________ every moment i spent with you shined because the weather was good because the weather was bad because the weather was good enough i loved every moment of it. |
| This was a powerful episode. With Aomine hanging on by a thin string that was then destroyed by the coach. Sanada opposing the chairperson yet he couldn't do it when it mattered most. How Aomine was looking at Kuroko like that :/ Murasakibara causing the switch in Akashi, didn't feel bad that Murasakibara got defeated with the attitude he had with Akashi. This was a wonderful one showing why the 6 had to part ways. |
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| Now I feel really depressed. I wonder what would be if Akashi stayed the way he was before. Oh and the song at the end made me tear up a bit. |
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| Good bye, Akashi's old personality :'( I'm really sad of this "change" Anyway, this episode has lots of feels on it T^T My heart is aching T^T |
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| AomineAomineAomineAomineAomineAomineAomineAomine..... KagamiKagamiKagamiKagamiKagamiKagamiKagamiKagamiKagamiKagami... love these 2 <3 basket beasts kagami...is a present from Kuroko to Aomine hahaha I was suspecting about akashi personality disorder..I still suspecting that he is kuroko´s friend...can´t remeber his name now kuroko was so sad..and cute murasakibara was near to win akashi...for a moment I thought he would do it kise was fine like always so fine,gentleman <3 midorima is cold ,I can´t believe that he cryed chapters ago is good that he changes with time ,make him more interesting  |
| The changes from the guys. Akashi just owned Murasakibara. |
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| should let the generation of miracles people play against each other. That would be worth while practice. |
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| And because of that , they joined different high schools each.. *Crack* |
| This episode is so cool omagad. Poor Kuroko. Did you see this "see you next week" so cuute. <3 |
| And with that, the current GoM that we all know and love were born....Seeing this happen in the anime made me even sadder than with the manga :( God Akashi tho |
| Interesting turning point, if there were only more talented middle school basketball teams. This has to be more than 25 episodes this season. |
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| Well, everyone's gone emo now. Akashi's family is Japanese, right? Right??? The see you next week picture was adorable. |
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Now it all makes sense. It was Madara's grand plan all along. |
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| Poor Akashi... |
| Ruka desu. |
| they all become worse because their talent/powers are too great, they cannot find worthy opponents that will make them play fun basketball again |
| Teiko was truly a tragic team. Seeing them all change like this is pretty sad. I feel bad for Kuroko. |
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| So sad to see the GOM's falling a part. Akashi vs Murasakibara. Finally get to see where Akashi obtained his other eye. The GOM's getting stronger. Aomine unable to see Kuroko's passes or receive them. |
"I’ve set myself to become the King of the Pirates…and if I die trying…then at least I tried!" Monkey D. Luffy (One Piece) |
| Shit... Goddamn... this episode... this episode... This is the best episode of Teikou arc so far... Especially, those Akashi awakening scenes... Akashi's OST always sounds epic evey time it plays. I feel so bad for Kuroko now... T_T Though, I'm sure next episode will be even more epic (in a bad way) T_T I'm still waiting for the reason Ogiwara started to hate Kuroko. |
| Poor Kuroko :cc |
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| So Akashi used to be actually nice. Poor Kuroku, the being "together forever" doesn't seem happening now. Really nice arc, enjoying the different personalities so much. |
| My Anime List | |
| Did anybody else get a little choked up and teary once the ending song started to play? Also I'm actually super disappointed they went shot for shot with the manga when it came to Murasakibara v Akashi, they could have made it so much better than it was. |
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| Damn, Death Note-ish soundtrack, yandere faces - just change the dialogue a bit and you get some horror anime series O_O (would watch it). Personality disorder as expected, but the moment when the 'second' Akashi has awaken has been done really well. Definitely the best episode so far, dem feels. Now I totally can't wait for Seirin to crush Akashi's team in the finals, damn it! |
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ibearclaw said: Also I'm actually super disappointed they went shot for shot with the manga when it came to Murasakibara v Akashi, they could have made it so much better than it was. Production I.G. is definitely rushing this arc with portions of it adapted into the OVAs already, which I am fine with. I believe there is only one episode left. |
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| Either Akashi's little "transformation" scene during the 1v1 with Murasakibara was exaggerated in comparison to the same scene in the manga or my memory is simply lacking. Regardless, it was quite cringe-worthy. I've said before that there is a limitation to characters like Akashi when the story is a basketball shounen, and I will continue saying it. Protip to aspiring writers: Don't get too carried away with your characters when writing them; Akashi is a prime example of this. His bizarre, cliche speech patterns aside, I really have to stress how ridiculous the sudden alteration in color for his left eye is. It's understandable how the author was wishing to convey Akashi's split personalities with this, but ultimately I feel it does more bad than good, especially how we're supposed to pretend the characters haven't noticed the color change...unless we're not supposed to pretend that's the case, and that instead they HAVE noticed but simply never mention it...for some reason (insert laughable plot reasoning here). Yeah, lol. It's just silly. Akashi was more tolerable in the manga it seems, but all in all he's still a badly written character. As I said, a perfect example of the author getting carried away with his own character. (...Whereas, of course, on the contrary you have Kagami and Murasakibara who could use MORE writing as they are very underwritten/underdeveloped. Hahaha. Ah well.) Anyway, Akashi disregarded, the episode was alright. |
TheEnigmaticRR said: (...Whereas, of course, on the contrary you have Kagami and Murasakibara who could use MORE writing as they are very underwritten/underdeveloped. Hahaha. Ah well.) It still bothers me how frequently Kagami's abilities fluctuate from one match to the next. Like all characters, he is only as powerful as the writer Fujimaki Tadatoshi wants him to be. |
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StevenHu said: TheEnigmaticRR said: (...Whereas, of course, on the contrary you have Kagami and Murasakibara who could use MORE writing as they are very underwritten/underdeveloped. Hahaha. Ah well.) It still bothers me how frequently Kagami's abilities fluctuate from one match to the next. Like all characters, he is only as powerful as the writer Fujimaki Tadatoshi wants him to be. Bothers me as well. It was especially noticeable during the Kise match...Kagami seemed irregularly useless there. I was mainly referring to how little depth he has as a character though, unless you understood that and I'm simply misunderstanding. He's a hothead who tries to do things himself, begins learning the value of teamwork while struggling against his aforementioned tendency to do things himself, and then eventually reaches the point where he understands his place in the team as the ace and thus holds the desire to fight his hardest alongside his team. And...that's really about it. Not a whole lot more to the guy. He himself is my biggest criticism of Kuroko no Basket, as he seems much more like a petty plot device than an actual main character; much like Casca in Berserk, if I may draw an appropriate comparison. |
TheEnigmaticRR said: Through much of the early portion of the series Kagami has been sort of been the main character, it could very well have been Kagami no Basket. Every game really focused on him and even Kuroko's goals were veiled with the idea of wishing to support Kagami, but that is really the main plot of the story... Kuroko succeeding through him supporting others is the point. It's not petty, it's what needs to exist for Kuroko's story to exist. I was mainly referring to how little depth he has as a character though, unless you understood that and I'm simply misunderstanding. He's a hothead who tries to do things himself, begins learning the value of teamwork while struggling against his aforementioned tendency to do things himself, and then eventually reaches the point where he understands his place in the team as the ace and thus holds the desire to fight his hardest alongside his team. And...that's really about it. Not a whole lot more to the guy. He himself is my biggest criticism of Kuroko no Basket, as he seems much more like a petty plot device than an actual main character; much like Casca in Berserk, if I may draw an appropriate comparison. This episode could be seen as the spark that set Kuroko on this path for, what in all honesty is, revenge. People he viewed as friends just as much as teammates abandoned him and saw him as insignificant, and he's out to prove them wrong. So Kuroko needs someone for him to support, someone just as talented as the others to see just how valuable he is. And you mentioned Akashi's eye... It's a symbolic change, not a literal one, and it wasn't completely sudden. At the early points in this episode as Aomine becomes more disgruntled and the team changes the pupil in his eye starts to fade, and when the dynamic breaks, so does he and his eye color has completely shifted. |
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| Kind of hilarious how ominous orchestral chanting fits in a show about magic basketball |
| Soooooo rushed! Well, I just hope they do the last match properly :) |
| "There's no shame in falling down... true shame is to not stand up again!" "Aah? Of course I won't miss!" "My blood tastes like Iron." "Run through the tape in life! Never give up! Run through the tape!" |
TheEnigmaticRR said: StevenHu said: It still bothers me how frequently Kagami's abilities fluctuate from one match to the next. Like all characters, he is only as powerful as the writer Fujimaki Tadatoshi wants him to be. Bothers me as well. It was especially noticeable during the Kise match...Kagami seemed irregularly useless there. I was mainly referring to how little depth he has as a character though, unless you understood that and I'm simply misunderstanding. Oh. Don't worry, I am aware. I was only making another point regarding his character. And no kidding. In that match, Kagami seemed to be pretty much just... there. |
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ibearclaw said: TheEnigmaticRR said: Through much of the early portion of the series Kagami has been sort of been the main character, it could very well have been Kagami no Basket. Every game really focused on him and even Kuroko's goals were veiled with the idea of wishing to support Kagami, but that is really the main plot of the story... Kuroko succeeding through him supporting others is the point. It's not petty, it's what needs to exist for Kuroko's story to exist. I was mainly referring to how little depth he has as a character though, unless you understood that and I'm simply misunderstanding. He's a hothead who tries to do things himself, begins learning the value of teamwork while struggling against his aforementioned tendency to do things himself, and then eventually reaches the point where he understands his place in the team as the ace and thus holds the desire to fight his hardest alongside his team. And...that's really about it. Not a whole lot more to the guy. He himself is my biggest criticism of Kuroko no Basket, as he seems much more like a petty plot device than an actual main character; much like Casca in Berserk, if I may draw an appropriate comparison. This episode could be seen as the spark that set Kuroko on this path for, what in all honesty is, revenge. People he viewed as friends just as much as teammates abandoned him and saw him as insignificant, and he's out to prove them wrong. So Kuroko needs someone for him to support, someone just as talented as the others to see just how valuable he is. And you mentioned Akashi's eye... It's a symbolic change, not a literal one, and it wasn't completely sudden. At the early points in this episode as Aomine becomes more disgruntled and the team changes the pupil in his eye starts to fade, and when the dynamic breaks, so does he and his eye color has completely shifted. I think you are making assumptions about why I said what I said. I'm aware that Kagami is required to exist; I understand that there has to be a light in contrast to Kuroko's shadow. The problem, as I stated, is that Kagami lacks depth as a character. Considering the amount of screen time Kagami receives and how vital he is to the team (being Kuroko's light and the team's ace), he should have more depth as a character than a simple ball hog who eventually learns to work with his team. He strikes me as very uninspired, so much to the point that, like I claimed, he rather seems like a plot device; surely SOMEONE has to be Kuroko's light, and thus his relevance doesn't go much further. He needed to be expanded upon, is what I'm asserting. For a character so big, he is rather small. Also, I'm aware that Akashi's eye is a symbolic change. Once again, as stated, I understand it is to represent his personality change. The ridiculousness lies in that we, as viewers, are supposed to see this, interpret it as a symbolic change (as we should), yet play along with the fact that other characters do not make anything of it. In my opinion, this change was not worth the symbolism it offers. Akashi's wide-eyed look is enough indication of his personality change; it should have just been left at this. |
| Speaking of Kagami lacking depth, I found it hilarious how quickly Himuro was thrown under the bus. What brother figure? One-trick pony is more like it. The theme of untalented people not being able to achieve greatness no matter their effort is very motivating indeed. |
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StevenHu said: Speaking of Kagami lacking depth, I found it hilarious how quickly Himuro was thrown under the bus. What brother figure? One-trick pony is more like it. The theme of untalented people not being able to achieve greatness no matter their effort is very motivating indeed. Hahahaha. |
| Symbolism doesn't need to be apparent to the other characters, the same way nobody says anything about lightning eyes in the zone or Aomine's forehead wrinkles. It's just way to make the change distinguishable to the viewers and it looks cool. If you're going to complain about that you might as well complain about hair color matching eye color and names matching hair color, because their relevancy is the same. |
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| Dat emperor eye. Yeah I like these episodes because they show great development. I know how Aomine, Murasakibara, and Akashi came to be. |
| I love Akashi's dialogue so much. |
"You either die an Ashita no Joe, or you live long enough to see yourself become a Naruto."  |
ibearclaw said: Did anybody else get a little choked up and teary once the ending song started to play? Yes, only because I already cried twice in this episode, and when it the ED began it just made everything worse. I knew it the song would make me sad when I first heard it, since it's the first ED song that wasn't upbeat. It was so heartbreaking to watch Aomine basically say that he doesn't need Kuroko anymore, and especially the part when he said that he doesn't even know how it feels to receive a pass from Kuroko. OUCH. And Akashi's brief talk with Kuroko pretty much rubbed salt on the wound. Also, I agree with people that Kagami lacks depth as a character despite the amount of screen time he had. He got character development alright at the very least, but as the series went on, I cared about him less and less... |
ibearclaw said: Symbolism doesn't need to be apparent to the other characters, the same way nobody says anything about lightning eyes in the zone or Aomine's forehead wrinkles. It's just way to make the change distinguishable to the viewers and it looks cool. If you're going to complain about that you might as well complain about hair color matching eye color and names matching hair color, because their relevancy is the same. I understand what you're saying, but don't you imagine it's slightly different in the case of his eye as his left eye's now orange color was not an original, established feature of his? Yet we're supposed to play along and assume the characters haven't recognized this new feature? I don't believe it's entirely fair to compare the altered eye color to the varying hair colors, names, and especially not the lightning eyes in the zone (which is symbolic, yes, but of the players' increased intensity in the matches; it is not an actual feature of theirs.) |
TheEnigmaticRR said: ibearclaw said: Symbolism doesn't need to be apparent to the other characters, the same way nobody says anything about lightning eyes in the zone or Aomine's forehead wrinkles. It's just way to make the change distinguishable to the viewers and it looks cool. If you're going to complain about that you might as well complain about hair color matching eye color and names matching hair color, because their relevancy is the same. I understand what you're saying, but don't you imagine it's slightly different in the case of his eye as his left eye's now orange color was not an original, established feature of his? Yet we're supposed to play along and assume the characters haven't recognized this new feature? I don't believe it's entirely fair to compare the altered eye color to the varying hair colors, names, and especially not the lightning eyes in the zone (which is symbolic, yes, but of the players' increased intensity in the matches; it is not an actual feature of theirs.) Going out on a limb here, but as much as I want to deny it, someone's eye colour can change naturally. Wikipedia said: Changes (lightening or darkening) of eye colors during puberty, early childhood, pregnancy, and sometimes after serious trauma (like heterochromia) do represent cause for plausible argument to state that some eyes can or do change, based on chemical reactions and hormonal changes within the body. Here is a picture of what heterochromia looks like. See anything familiar? :|  I wish I am making this up, but the excess or lack of melanin can apparently cause this. |
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TheEnigmaticRR said: Not really, you're just looking too far into it. Would it make you feel better if I said the characters can't see it? That it is exactly the same as the lightning eyes, in that it's just showing which Akashi is being displayed. Because while his pattern of speech is a bit more "noble" (I don't know what to call it) his VA does a great job of keeping the tone the same.ibearclaw said: Symbolism doesn't need to be apparent to the other characters, the same way nobody says anything about lightning eyes in the zone or Aomine's forehead wrinkles. It's just way to make the change distinguishable to the viewers and it looks cool. If you're going to complain about that you might as well complain about hair color matching eye color and names matching hair color, because their relevancy is the same. I understand what you're saying, but don't you imagine it's slightly different in the case of his eye as his left eye's now orange color was not an original, established feature of his? Yet we're supposed to play along and assume the characters haven't recognized this new feature? I don't believe it's entirely fair to compare the altered eye color to the varying hair colors, names, and especially not the lightning eyes in the zone (which is symbolic, yes, but of the players' increased intensity in the matches; it is not an actual feature of theirs.) |
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TheEnigmaticRR said: I'm aware that Kagami is required to exist; I understand that there has to be a light in contrast to Kuroko's shadow. The problem, as I stated, is that Kagami lacks depth as a character. Considering the amount of screen time Kagami receives and how vital he is to the team (being Kuroko's light and the team's ace), he should have more depth as a character than a simple ball hog who eventually learns to work with his team. He strikes me as very uninspired, so much to the point that, like I claimed, he rather seems like a plot device; surely SOMEONE has to be Kuroko's light, and thus his relevance doesn't go much further. He needed to be expanded upon, is what I'm asserting. For a character so big, he is rather small. . The following analysis of Kagami is going to be disjointed, since I have no desire to waste time on properly organizing my thoughts, so I'll just say whatever comes to mind to bring across my points. Kagami is supposed to be boring, but he has enough depth for a character in a sports anime. It's not like Rukawa or Ippo or Echizen have a lot of depth to them other than coolness, passion, cockiness, indomitable spirit, etc. Kagami cares only about basketball and nothing else. He barely has any furniture in his house apart from the essentials, not even a TV. He practically eats and lives basketball. He obsesses about getting stronger and meeting strong opponents excites him. He even said in season 1, "it's better if I don't win", because apparently life needs to be full of challenges and there is no point if there is no one who can beat him. He started as an impatient ball-hog who loses his temper if he doesn't touch the ball enough for his liking, but eventually he progressed (thanks to Kuroko constantly lecturing him) to someone who's cool-headed, such that even Wakamatsu and Aomine noticed the change in him. There's this whole rivalry and brotherhood thing with Himuro in case you forgot. For all that tough exterior, we find out that he really is a softie after all. Even Hyuga commented that he is too kind to play seriously against someone he feels a sense of kinship with. But eventually, for the sake of winning, he decided to close off his feelings for Himuro by asking Kuroko to discard his friendship ring because right then, winning for the sake of his team is more important than Himuro. We find that he really cares about his teammates. The way he consoled Kuroko when he was crushed by Aomine was amazingly cool. "I'll teach him (Aomine), that there is no such thing as a useless effort." I think he even inspired Kuroko to do the same for Kiyoshi later against Yosen after he was taken off. "I'll beat you (Murasakibara) on his (Kiyoshi) behalf." Kagami has an undeniable effect on his team off-the-court as well. When we were first introduced to Kagami, he was cocky as hell. "I'll beat the generation of miracles and become the best player in Japan." However, he soon was shown how naive he was. After facing Aomine, it seemed apparent to me that he lost quite a bit of his confidence as a player. Yes, part of that can be attributed to him being more cool-headed, but he just didn't exude that same aura of overwhelming strength as he did when he first joined Seirin. It almost seemed that the Aomine had beaten his confidence down. However, the real Kagami was unleashed against Aomine when he no longer felt he had to depend on Kuroko anymore. Against Yosen, despite being a extraordinarily competitive player, he decided to limit his area of play from the entire 2 point area to just the paint area, showing the kind of humility and self-awareness that even surprised Hyuga. In the same match, he came to the realisation that he shouldn't lament about his lack of ability to get into the zone and just focus on playing to the best of his current abilities. Yet another leap forward in maturity as a player. It was great to see the subtle changes in Kagami as the story progresses. So much for a character with 'no depth'. He's symbolic of how, with the right guidance, a talent can blossom. He falls somewhat between Himuro and the other miracles. He already has the potential to be on par with the miracles, but he couldn't reach that on his own. However, with Kuroko, Alex, Midorima, Kise and Aomine all giving him support, training, advice and the right nudge along the way, and the miracles providing the seemingly insurmountable obstacle he needed to push himself further, he eventually attained their level of godly basketball. He just took a different path. Narrative wise, he does seem like a tool for Kuroko to use against the generation of miracles, to prove that their basketball is wrong, but they do have a real sense of camaraderie and he does have his goal (to become the best player in Japan) and own will to succeed, so it's more like they are mutually helping each other to attain their own individual as well as common goals. TheEnigmaticRR said: StevenHu said: Speaking of Kagami lacking depth, I found it hilarious how quickly Himuro was thrown under the bus. What brother figure? One-trick pony is more like it. The theme of untalented people not being able to achieve greatness no matter their effort is very motivating indeed. Hahahaha. His one-trick was devastating enough though. Not once did a Seirin player stop his dribbles. Once he worked in tandem with Murasakibara, Yosen's offense was (nearly) unstoppable. The generation of miracles being such monstrous talents such that a normal person could never hope to reach them no matter how hard they train is an important theme in the series. In real life, the ideal of innate talent is a myth. https://www.youtube.com/watch?hl=en-GB&v=mF0v-C_A45E In fact, elite players train harder than non-elite players. Sure there are some prerequisites to being talented, such as intelligence, ability to reflect on one's mistakes and internally correct them, visual and spatial processing speed, etc, but no one who is elite, be it Lebron, Curry or Anthony Davis, becomes it without working hard. Every real life elite player is a source of motivation if you are looking for it. The idea of born-geniuses, of people born with tennis, basketball or shinobi DNA in anime is inherently flawed, albeit it makes for compelling storytelling. So is the idea that you can get an instant power-up by screaming "I can't lose here!" :) If you want to develop your game irl, anime is not the best place to look for insights or motivation. |
TorribleApr 18, 2015 11:34 PM
| So, basically, everything is the new head coach's fault. |
Mormegil said: So, basically, everything is the new head coach's fault. Essentially, Shirogane the head coach, Nijimura, and a benign Akashi had been barely holding a team full of burgeoning talent together. Once Nijimura retired, Shirogane was hospitalized, and Akashi changed, the team lost their pillars of emotional support and discipline and started to fall apart. It was a combination of various external and internal factors, but the new coach's lack of ability to coach on the emotional/mental (sports psychology) side of things, and the GM's insistence on giving the GoMs special treatment didn't help. |
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