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| Yet another questionable chapter... So, another "blast" fruit, not really different from the baroque work no 5... And it's actually quite funny how robin got transformed. Correct me if I'm wrong, but all they need to do is to shock or make Sugar unconscious, right? Why wouldnt Robin just hit Sugar's neck, or just pin her right away instead of holding her off? Robin can pin her easily, considering she able to did the same to pelt, a seasonal fighter to boot. Or maybe Oda felt that pinning on a little girl until she formed a foam on her mouth is too sadistic? And seriously, I don't know why would you guys mad at Usopp for running away? Cowardice is his trait, and by neglecting it, then it's no different than neglecting the whole character himself. If anything, I was annoyed on how Oda change his way of fighting. I loved the old Usopp that fight with tricks on tricks and tricks, which differ him from his comrades (except Nami). Now he's quite boring.. I mean, his plant can do almost anything that he wants, no limitation on them. So much for being a "sharpshooter"... Gimme more Sabo's fight! |
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invalidargument said: Im really disappointed with usopp. As a matter of fact Im disgusted by him. How can he just leave them behind? Im still hoping for him to rethink what he's doing though. Well i think is expected that he will rethink and end up being all heroic in the end, that's what he always does but it would be nice if Oda gave him some real development after so long with a slight change of attitude especially after the last two years where he trained with the goal of no longer running away and become a true hero of the seas. Also i don't know but now he kind of seems even worse. In the past we wanted to run away etc before anything happens but if he saw a friends etc get hurt in-frond of his eyes he got mad. Now he hardly felt like wanting to kick the asses of those two for what they did to the little guys. |
MonadMar 6, 2014 6:41 AM
| I think you're all misunderstanding, from Usopps perspective he's alone with a couple of tontatta tribesmen there, he met a few hours ago... he has no idea of Robin, or the army that was with him...Of course there's hesitation From his point of view, he's abandoning a few strangers. It will indeed be bad ass when he realizes there's something more to it, and his inner struggle comes to show... In Usopp we will see the recognition of bonds in the SHs crew (...probably, okay since it's Robin again I don't know but there's definitely gonna be inner struggle and a bit of confusion in Usopps heart). Defeating Sugar isn't about making her faint/eat the tobasco shot, it's about overcoming and 'dispelling' her effect of turning people into toys and breaking the bonds they had before, meaning also in a psychological way ------> atleast that's my way of looking at it |
| This world is mine. I think this world may even just be a long, long dream I'm watching. You guys may just be illusions, and it can't be proven whether or not you really exist either. In other words, this world was created with me at the center. So what will happen if I die? I don't know. My imagination isn't very creative; I just can't imagine myself dying. In other words, there is no way this world can completely disappear. But if I die, then everyone will disappear. I am the only one in this world who won't disappear. The rest are just people I see as if in a dream. -Claire Stanfield, Baccano! |
| If Luffy were to be turned into a toy, and all memories of him went away, would that mean that at that given moment the Straw Hat members wouldn't recognize each other due to never meeting because it of Luffy they'd met? Or would somehow there be that connection, jut more of a 'missing pages hing. |
kiDnameDSkia said: I think you're all misunderstanding, from Usopps perspective he's alone with a couple of tontatta tribesmen there, he met a few hours ago... he has no idea of Robin, or the army that was with him...Of course there's hesitation From his point of view, he's abandoning a few strangers. It will indeed be bad ass when he realizes there's something more to it, and his inner struggle comes to show... In Usopp we will see the recognition of bonds in the SHs crew (...probably, okay since it's Robin again I don't know but there's definitely gonna be inner struggle and a bit of confusion in Usopps heart). Defeating Sugar isn't about making her faint/eat the tobasco shot, it's about overcoming and 'dispelling' her effect of turning people into toys and breaking the bonds they had before, meaning also in a psychological way ------> atleast that's my way of looking at it They ain't strangers. He already made a connection with them. We seen the Straw hat crew plenty of times helping other people they met just a while ago and be totally pissed off when they are abused or hurt. Actually that is what Straw Hats do best. Go places and help people they meet. Sorry but that excuse doesn't pass. |
SkyFade said: If Luffy were to be turned into a toy, and all memories of him went away, would that mean that at that given moment the Straw Hat members wouldn't recognize each other due to never meeting because it of Luffy they'd met? Or would somehow there be that connection, jut more of a 'missing pages hing. As i see it they will know they are pirates and each other but they will be wondering things like: "Wait who is our captain?", "How come we did so many crazy things?", "Why are we pirates again?". Things like that. |
| ^ teh emphasis of my post wasn't on the 'excuse'...if you want, you can erase it whole and reread the post ignoring that detail. I was talking about the problem of Sugar in general, and Usopp as the device that will dissolve her plotwise. I also pointed out how battling Sugar and Usopp running from that battle isn't in Usopps cowardice towards battling someone head-on, it's a psychological battle in all terms, and Usopp as the symbol of that battle till now in the story (battling with fear, feelings, himself ---> also, there is no bravery without fear) is the perfect character for this. While I'm at it, I'll also say I consider Usopp the most human character in the whole series, and therefore every action he takes is perfectly logical, atleast from my perspective, even his cowardice. His way of battle (outsmarting opponents much more than just sniping) is also the most human way of battle. Take off your otaku glasses and try to look at it from a non-shounen perspective (this was a general constation to everyone who's 'disappointed' in Usopp) |
| This world is mine. I think this world may even just be a long, long dream I'm watching. You guys may just be illusions, and it can't be proven whether or not you really exist either. In other words, this world was created with me at the center. So what will happen if I die? I don't know. My imagination isn't very creative; I just can't imagine myself dying. In other words, there is no way this world can completely disappear. But if I die, then everyone will disappear. I am the only one in this world who won't disappear. The rest are just people I see as if in a dream. -Claire Stanfield, Baccano! |
| gOda is really nice guy. http://i.imgur.com/D6PBLd6.jpg sorry for poor english |
kiDnameDSkia said: I think you're all misunderstanding, from Usopps perspective he's alone with a couple of tontatta tribesmen there, he met a few hours ago... he has no idea of Robin, or the army that was with him...Of course there's hesitation From his point of view, he's abandoning a few strangers. It will indeed be bad ass when he realizes there's something more to it, and his inner struggle comes to show... In Usopp we will see the recognition of bonds in the SHs crew (...probably, okay since it's Robin again I don't know but there's definitely gonna be inner struggle and a bit of confusion in Usopps heart). Defeating Sugar isn't about making her faint/eat the tobasco shot, it's about overcoming and 'dispelling' her effect of turning people into toys and breaking the bonds they had before, meaning also in a psychological way I still don't get why knocking her unconscious would do anything. I mean, I'm assuming she sleeps every night, right? Is voluntary sleep so different from passing out that it would negate a devil fruit's effects? I guess it must... |
| You folks all need to chillax about Usopp, Oda has quite clearly thought his reactions through. Because Robin has turned into a toy Usopp can no longer remember her, or for that matter any of the events involving her such as when he became Sogeking at Ennies Lobby. This means he can no longer remember being brave and has thus reverted back to his cowardly-self which means he needs to again realize he has to be brave in order to defeat Sugar. Notice Franky said he was depending on Usopp thus confirming that Robin has been forgotten. It might be possible that the now toy Robin has not been given a contract like Toy Soldier and possibly can assist Usopp in toy form (through some act of deception) to take down Sugar. My thoughts... |
Quinius said: SwordsmanDan said: kiDnameDSkia said: I think you're all misunderstanding, from Usopps perspective he's alone with a couple of tontatta tribesmen there, he met a few hours ago... he has no idea of Robin, or the army that was with him...Of course there's hesitation From his point of view, he's abandoning a few strangers. It will indeed be bad ass when he realizes there's something more to it, and his inner struggle comes to show... In Usopp we will see the recognition of bonds in the SHs crew (...probably, okay since it's Robin again I don't know but there's definitely gonna be inner struggle and a bit of confusion in Usopps heart). Defeating Sugar isn't about making her faint/eat the tobasco shot, it's about overcoming and 'dispelling' her effect of turning people into toys and breaking the bonds they had before, meaning also in a psychological way I still don't get why knocking her unconscious would do anything. I mean, I'm assuming she sleeps every night, right? Is voluntary sleep so different from passing out that it would negate a devil fruit's effects? I guess it must... It definitely is in the OP world. Take Moriah as an example. On Thriller Bark he was sleeping for days before the straw hats arrived, but didn't lose control of the shadows. As soon as he got beaten by Luffy and started to lose consciousness, he lost control of the shadows and was forced to release them. That could be true. However, with Moriah I don't think the shadows would have gone back to their owners had he not taken them out of all the zombies first. |
Quinius said: SwordsmanDan said: That could be true. However, with Moriah I don't think the shadows would have gone back to their owners had he not taken them out of all the zombies first. Well I suppose that could be the case... So we know, that devil fruit users don't lose their powers when they're asleep, but we're not sure if it's the same once they're unconscious. What about a recent example: Jura(?), who turned brook, nami and chopper into "art", apparantly lost control of her power after she was cut by brook and supposedly lost consciousness. And another one: On Fishman Island Noah fell down, after Vander Decken knocked himself out. Besides that, the whole plan of taking out sugar is based on that theory, which in my eyes confirmes it already. Also I believe that at some point in the series it was said that DF's work like that (though I really don't know who and when that was mentioned, so it might as well have been some forum :p). You've got me there. Jura and Vander Decken are definitely examples of that. For some reason I thought Vander Decken died on the Noah, but you're right he just passed out. |
Quinius said: SwordsmanDan said: kiDnameDSkia said: I think you're all misunderstanding, from Usopps perspective he's alone with a couple of tontatta tribesmen there, he met a few hours ago... he has no idea of Robin, or the army that was with him...Of course there's hesitation From his point of view, he's abandoning a few strangers. It will indeed be bad ass when he realizes there's something more to it, and his inner struggle comes to show... In Usopp we will see the recognition of bonds in the SHs crew (...probably, okay since it's Robin again I don't know but there's definitely gonna be inner struggle and a bit of confusion in Usopps heart). Defeating Sugar isn't about making her faint/eat the tobasco shot, it's about overcoming and 'dispelling' her effect of turning people into toys and breaking the bonds they had before, meaning also in a psychological way I still don't get why knocking her unconscious would do anything. I mean, I'm assuming she sleeps every night, right? Is voluntary sleep so different from passing out that it would negate a devil fruit's effects? I guess it must... It definitely is in the OP world. Take Moriah as an example. On Thriller Bark he was sleeping for days before the straw hats arrived, but didn't lose control of the shadows. As soon as he got beaten by Luffy and started to lose consciousness, he lost control of the shadows and was forced to release them. Not only that but, yes, being unconscious is physiologically different than being asleep. Damn things look bad. Yeah, what Ussop did was pretty cowardly but on the other hand what the hell is he supposed to do in this situation?? Sugar has to spicy "grape" he's surrounded by enemies including Sugar and Trevor. Boy... what are they gonna do... |
| Love and Peace!!! |
rishardew said: SetsukoHara said: LMAO!Usopp must have eaten the pussy pussy no mi in that island, that's the only explanation for this shit. I never really like Usopp so I'm biased to talk about it but damn, can't even put into words how disappointed I am. PS: Too many Logias lately, weren't they supposed to be rare? Um, Trebol might be a logia, but who other than him in this entire arc is a logia? |
| Love and Peace!!! |
Thund3r1 said: rishardew said: SetsukoHara said: LMAO!Usopp must have eaten the pussy pussy no mi in that island, that's the only explanation for this shit. I never really like Usopp so I'm biased to talk about it but damn, can't even put into words how disappointed I am. PS: Too many Logias lately, weren't they supposed to be rare? Um, Trebol might be a logia, but who other than him in this entire arc is a logia? I actually think Trebol is a Paramecia since he hasn't turned into snot yet. Peeka might be a logia, though, seeing as he can turn into stone. |
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| Usopp is OOC as hell right now. Really, it usually takes someone's speech about what they protect/what they are glad to give their life for to get him all fired up and hey, Leo just did that in the previous chapter. It's high time for him to kick ass. Mister Oda, I don't like that imposter at all, shoo with him. |
| Oda don't do Usopp the way you did Sanji Pls Pls Pllsssss |
Kaimon237 said: Oda don't do Usopp the way you did Sanji Pls Pls Pllsssss Oddly enough, I don't think it's the case. Also, Sanji might even get his moment of awesome this arc since he's on the Sunny with Brook/Nami/Chopper and they are currently facing Big Mom's crew. So best case scenario: Usopp and Sanji become awesome again. Worst case... I don't think it'll happen but I'll be sad if it does since I like Usopp. Just remember that Usopp thinks he's alone since Robin + most of the Tontata are toys, meaning that they are gone from his (and the other Straw Hats) memory. It's probably why Luffy said something along the lines of "I could've blocked this" when Viola got hit by the shrapnel from Gladius. |
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| Neah you guys must not be real Usopp fans if a single chapter makes you lose faith in him. Usopp isn't like the rest of the crew, he constantly screws up but I have no doubt that when the time comes he's going to be there and do his part. Wasn't surprised in the least in seeing Usopp running away like a coward, but he'll be back and with a plan. |
Arete7 said: Neah you guys must not be real Usopp fans if a single chapter makes you lose faith in him. Usopp isn't like the rest of the crew, he constantly screws up but I have no doubt that when the time comes he's going to be there and do his part. Wasn't surprised in the least in seeing Usopp running away like a coward, but he'll be back and with a plan. I'm now thinking of doing a poll to see how many people are fans of Usopp, because I really am curious. However, it probably goes against some forum rule so I won't. ****Okay, I looked it Usopp's character profile and he has a large list of users who added him as favorite. Well, to each his own. |
SwordsmanDanMar 7, 2014 10:37 PM
| fucken usopp sometimes him being a pussy is funny but for me usually it's not... :l |
| Signature removed. Please follow the signature rules, as defined in the Site & Forum Guidelines. |
| Here it's not a problem of beeing an Usopp fan or not. The problem is that he didn't even fight at all. He just hid himself, watched what happened and ran without a scratch on him. He was never such a coward. If Oda wanted to make him flee it would have make more sense to have Trebol find him while he was still talking with the Tontata and then they would have got into a speed chase around the docks with the usual stupid music (Escape). At last it would have been funny. |
| I disliked that chapter... Usoland abandoned them??? Robin turned into a toy??? Wow this is a catastrophe! |
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| Usopp also ran away back then in Arlong arc but came back and beat that Chuu like a boss. |
SolBlade said: Just remember that Usopp thinks he's alone since Robin + most of the Tontata are toys, meaning that they are gone from his (and the other Straw Hats) memory. It's probably why Luffy said something along the lines of "I could've blocked this" when Viola got hit by the shrapnel from Gladius. Ah, it makes sense then. I always seem to forget about the fact that nobody remembers people who are made into toys (so it's kinda working, lol). Then right, Usopp's behaviour is understandable. He doesn't fight because he doesn't have anything to fight for here. As for Sanji - I think he slowly regains his awesomeness in Dressrosa. Fishmen Island was a distaster, Punk Hazard was so-so and now he's pretty much back. I expect great things from him now that he's in charge of Sunny. Make it so, Mister Oda! Robin shines in Dressrosa too, as I felt she became a little bland after Enies Lobby when her great secret was unfold. Now I'm pretty much satisfied with the Straw Hats again. |
kiDnameDSkia said: This. I agree 100%, from the very start Usopp only lied to them in order for him and Robin to survive. And from that first lie to them, he's been planning on getting away the first chance he got. So it's not like he really felt much moral obligation towards them... If it weren't for Robin, I highly doubt Usopp would've stuck around even as long as he did. Now that he doesn't remember her, he can't even understand why he was there to begin with.Monad said: That's not exactly true, it's not really like the crew just jumps at every chance they can to help people. It's just when they witness people being mistreated they can't resist that temptation to help them. And also it's not even always a unanimous decision either... the most recent example being Sanji not wanting to help those children on Punk Hazard, however Nami and Chopper did, and being Sanji he couldn't disobey Nami's orders. Luffy's just usually the one who jumps first without thinking about it, and generally at least Nami, Usopp, and Chopper are in extreme disagreement, but because most of the crew are just fearless monsters themselves and Luffy is their captain they just reluctantly go along with it anyway. I don't think there was ever a single time that Usopp was all for going up against strong people, unless one of his friends (e.g. the Straw Hats or Kaya) absolutely needed him... also, aside from Chu and Perona, there's never been a time where he fought one on one. The worst case scenario he ever did was going up against Kizaru when he almost killed Zoro.They ain't strangers. He already made a connection with them. We seen the Straw hat crew plenty of times helping other people they met just a while ago and be totally pissed off when they are abused or hurt. Actually that is what Straw Hats do best. Go places and help people they meet. Sorry but that excuse doesn't pass. Another thing to realize, aside from forgetting Robin... he's also already forgotten half of the dwarves, so his obligation/reason for helping them is quickly burning out more and more. SwordsmanDan said: I've also been considering this for a while now. Another thing you guys should consider is the fact that Trafalgar Law has been knocked out a couple times, but all his "creations" have stayed the same.Reading you guys' discussion makes me realize that it's probably something along the lines of how the ability changes things. If you think about it, Jura's and Vander Decken's are more similar to each other than to Law's or Moria's. Jura's is somewhat similar to a Zoan/Logia, where it completely changes the object/person in question... if you take Chopper for example, if Chopper got knocked out he'd return to his normal Brain Point (as seen in Enies Lobby when Franky tackled him into the water). Decken's is actually a little simpler to explain I think... most likely while awake his own mind is kind of like a tracker, so when he's knocked out his body lose it's sense of the target. But when you take Law's and Moria's abilities, they don't actually alter things in completely unnatural ways. In other words, they don't actually transform things but only move things around. Unlike say Ace, who turns his body into fire... Law only moves pieces around and puts them together however he wants... thus they can't go back together on their own. Kind of like if you cut someone's hand off and sewed it onto someone else's body... except without the messy bits. And if that's true then it also explains Moria's ability, and goes along with what SwordsmanDan said. Moria doesn't actually transform anything either, but just grabs their shadows/spirits and puts them somewhere else. He doesn't actually have control of the shadows after he lets go of them (we don't exactly see him tossing the shadows at the corpses). And so, the only reason they returned to their original owners was because Luffy was literally making him cough them up, and so they because they didn't have anyone to guide them, they just went home I guess you could say. |
HalibelTheEspadaMar 8, 2014 8:45 PM
Quinius said: Good point, I never thought about the fact that others might be able to control them just as well once they're severed.You're right. I do also think, that it depends on how the ability changes things. That's why in my head Law was in a different category all along. But it's true, that Moriah is probably more like Law as well. I just remembered that even Lola and company were able to catch the shadows and put them into Luffy. They could have probably put them into new corpses the very same way, which means, that it's likely that the shadows were not connected to Moria anymore at that point. Thus he is not controlling the shadows after all. He only severs the connection to their original body which allows even normal people to hold onto them. On the other hand salt is able to release the shadows again, so the DF powers are obviously still involved to some degree. Thinking about it now though, I wonder if the salt part has any connection to water affecting Devil Fruit users... after all even fresh water has a tiny bit of salt in it. The real question is, where this puts us regarding Sugar's abilities. Are they more like Jura's and somewhat similar to Zoan/Logia like you said or are they more like Law's and Moria's. I'm not quite sure about that. I would say Sugar's ability is more like Jura's, since she's permanently transforming them into something that they weren't before. But I get the feeling that things won't actually be so simple, just because that's what their entire plan is counting on... also that might be why Doflamingo's so confused about them attacking Sugar. But from what we know right now, I would imagine they'd turn back to normal.If her abilities are like Law's, it would make things a lot more difficult (though it seems pretty desperate already with Robin forgotten and Usopp running^^). That's why I still believe, that knocking out Sugar is going to turn everyone back to normal or AT LEAST cancel their contracts. Unless of course her ability actually is just putting their souls into toys that already exist... which doesn't seem very likely... especially since that's basically Moria's ability. |
HalibelTheEspadaMar 9, 2014 11:45 PM
| ^ There's a bit of a hole in your theory about Moria though: the only reason he pulled all the shadows in himself is out of desperation, to stall the SHs and enemies till sunrise so they burn (because ATM they didn't have shadows) - if just knocking him unconcious without using Shadows Asgard first wouldn't bring back their shadows (all shadows to their respective owners), why didn't he just wait it out without making a scene? I'm pretty sure at that point knocking him unconcious would have the same effect, so although your reasoning stands with reason, I think Moria is more in control of the shadows than Law (who isn't in control of the parts he shuffles in any way ---> the only time Law controls something is when that something is in his room area), and it's a bit different in nature. Although not as directly, Moria can control the separated shadows one way or another, the same as Sugar can control the toys via contracts. If there is no contracts, the toys are free to do what they want, I think that's the same thing with those zombies on Thriller Bark, because they all firstly got their shadows cut off, and if I remember correctly Moria comes to an 'agreement' with the shadow to serve him in another body. |
| This world is mine. I think this world may even just be a long, long dream I'm watching. You guys may just be illusions, and it can't be proven whether or not you really exist either. In other words, this world was created with me at the center. So what will happen if I die? I don't know. My imagination isn't very creative; I just can't imagine myself dying. In other words, there is no way this world can completely disappear. But if I die, then everyone will disappear. I am the only one in this world who won't disappear. The rest are just people I see as if in a dream. -Claire Stanfield, Baccano! |
| in other words, Sugar is pretty similar with Moria, or the nature of how they use their abilities is, in my opinion. Same with Jura. Decken is a bit different because he's ability in that aspect is pretty simple, he has a target and the object he threw will just go to the target, if he faints the target will be lost because the sender was cut off. Think of it this way: the contract is legit as long as both sides are able to oversee it. If the man collecting the taxes can't come to your house to collect, you obviously won't pay them and will retain your money/sanity :D therefore, he loses a taxpayer... I don't know if you get me, or if this reference was even more dumb than it sounds to me, but I hope you got the point |
| This world is mine. I think this world may even just be a long, long dream I'm watching. You guys may just be illusions, and it can't be proven whether or not you really exist either. In other words, this world was created with me at the center. So what will happen if I die? I don't know. My imagination isn't very creative; I just can't imagine myself dying. In other words, there is no way this world can completely disappear. But if I die, then everyone will disappear. I am the only one in this world who won't disappear. The rest are just people I see as if in a dream. -Claire Stanfield, Baccano! |
| ^ Well, according to the wikia, Moria does indeed have control over where or not the shadow goes back to it's owner (unless they're purified using salt). But the idea there wasn't for them to knock him out and all the shadows would come back. In that arc the plan was to just beat him and force him to make them all return. True, Moria did do it out of desperation... but I think in his mind taking in all those shadows would make him powerful enough where they didn't stand a chance and he's just have to hold that form until they all just turned to dust. But it was said that in order for the shadows to return, Moria had to say that the shadow could, unless it was purified, so knocking him out wouldn't actually send the shadows back. For a more reliable/direct source though, Moria says it here in chapter 463. While Moria's ability is somewhat similar to Jura's and Sugar's, the main difference is that he isn't turning them into anything... he's basically just taking their souls and essentially copying the person into a zombie. The only thing it actually does to others is make them unable to enter sunlight. Whereas Jura and Sugar actually turn them into weaker/useless things that can't really fight back. |
| ^ True, but I want his ability to be separated (in this conversation), along with all other abilites before mentioned, with Laws DF ability, because Law doesn't 'govern', he doesn't change things nor anything similar, he controls them abstractly in a limited space for a limited time, and there are even limits within that area. He can't control a person in any way, the closest he can come is cutting the person and controling parts of it, or rather just adjusting them or making them blend differently. He's just playing operation basically, so I think while arguing about the limits and bondaries of Sugars ability, mentioning Laws ability here is unjustified and out of context. Sugar, as you stated and proved with Moria, likewise 'governs' over toys, with whom she came to an agreement with (signed a contract). Therefore, it can be compared to a certain extent. But while Sugar, the same as Jura changes them completely into something else (people), this is where the comparison draws the line, and we're unable to say for certain if fainting Sugar and Moria would have the same effect. |
| This world is mine. I think this world may even just be a long, long dream I'm watching. You guys may just be illusions, and it can't be proven whether or not you really exist either. In other words, this world was created with me at the center. So what will happen if I die? I don't know. My imagination isn't very creative; I just can't imagine myself dying. In other words, there is no way this world can completely disappear. But if I die, then everyone will disappear. I am the only one in this world who won't disappear. The rest are just people I see as if in a dream. -Claire Stanfield, Baccano! |
kiDnameDSkia said: ^ True, but I want his ability to be separated (in this conversation), along with all other abilites before mentioned, with Laws DF ability, because Law doesn't 'govern', he doesn't change things nor anything similar, he controls them abstractly in a limited space for a limited time, and there are even limits within that area. He can't control a person in any way, the closest he can come is cutting the person and controling parts of it, or rather just adjusting them or making them blend differently. He's just playing operation basically, so I think while arguing about the limits and bondaries of Sugars ability, mentioning Laws ability here is unjustified and out of context. Sugar, as you stated and proved with Moria, likewise 'governs' over toys, with whom she came to an agreement with (signed a contract). Therefore, it can be compared to a certain extent. But while Sugar, the same as Jura changes them completely into something else (people), this is where the comparison draws the line, and we're unable to say for certain if fainting Sugar and Moria would have the same effect. Well, this is definitely a better convo then when Fairy Tail does something you can't explain. Most just call it as another inconsistency and wait for the fanservice;) |
| This was a pretty good chapter up until that last page. I thought Ussop was definitely going to step up after Leo gave him his answer but I guess not. I just hope that he decides to go back and fight on his own. I’d be pretty disappointed if the only reason he fought was because he was found out or cornered or something. This Pica vs Zoro fight could be pretty interesting. It seems like in a normal setting Zoro is stronger than Pica but Pica has a huge advantage here. I like how both Luffy and Zoro are easily able to counter Pica’s attacks as well. Pica sent an attack at Luffy and he effortlessly blocked it and said that Zoro would be fine. It will probably be a pretty good fight. Gladius is pretty bad ass. I feel like he is probably the strongest executive besides the top three. It looks like him and Kinemon will be fighting which should probably be pretty cool. With the anger problem that Gladius has I’m guessing that he will be pretty pissed when he finds out that Kinemon tricked him. I wonder if how he cuts flames will apply to explosions too. Also I noticed that the dwarf is with him now and not Zoro which could mean that he will help fight Gladius. I feel like that also means Zoro might be in for a pretty rough fight (why he is not carrying him around anymore). I’ve been liking Franky a lot since after the time skip. He became a monster. I’ve actually wanted to see what was going on on his side for a while. That would be cool if he took on the Vice Admiral. Either way his bounty will probably go up a lot. That’s too bad that Robin became a toy. I wanted her to get a fight. Maybe she’ll end up getting one when she becomes human again though. I kind of had a feeling either Robin or Ussop was going to get turned into a toy. I guess I’m gladder it was Robin instead of him because I really wanna see him step up. Luffy is in the same room as Doflamingo now. Shit is definitely going to get crazy pretty soon. |
| Funnily enough, while I have had problems with Usopp in the arc, this part not only didn't bother me but served to finally put the character in a proper context. Many people accused him for blaming Franky or for making fun of the dwarves but I saw it in a very different way, as if he was repeating these thoughts in his head to relieve his own guilt feeling. In the last chapters he had shown a very despicable side of him when he was too focused on his own survival and didn't seem to care about what happened to the rest. This scene in that sense was relieving to me, seeing that he actually cared and was concerned about his own attitude. I can understand that he's seen as a coward and a traitor as well as the huge pressure he was bearing till that point, but what I think is important in there is depicting how he feels through it. In that sense this chapter was very satisfactory, it gave me the picture that I was expecting. On the other hand I don't believe that it is a Sanji case because Sanji's was played for comedy, and Usopp's is likely to be dramatic and an important process in the character. |
kiDnameDSkia said: Well all I was saying is that Moria's is different from Sugar's and Jura's in the same way that Law's is. Of course they're not overly similar, because every fruit is different. I wasn't saying they're the same, I was just using Law to provide another example... because using only Moria's ability isn't really enough to justify my theory. ^ True, but I want his ability to be separated (in this conversation), along with all other abilites before mentioned, with Laws DF ability, because Law doesn't 'govern', he doesn't change things nor anything similar, he controls them abstractly in a limited space for a limited time, and there are even limits within that area. He can't control a person in any way, the closest he can come is cutting the person and controling parts of it, or rather just adjusting them or making them blend differently. He's just playing operation basically, so I think while arguing about the limits and bondaries of Sugars ability, mentioning Laws ability here is unjustified and out of context. Sugar, as you stated and proved with Moria, likewise 'governs' over toys, with whom she came to an agreement with (signed a contract). Therefore, it can be compared to a certain extent. But while Sugar, the same as Jura changes them completely into something else (people), this is where the comparison draws the line, and we're unable to say for certain if fainting Sugar and Moria would have the same effect. But as far as I know none of them can control them indirectly... I didn't say Law controls things outside of his range. But all of Law's creations still stay that way (examples being Monet and Brownbeard or the hearts). But more than anything my main point was what you also just said, that knocking Sugar and Moria out should have different effects. Because Moria claimed that knocking him out, or even killing him, wouldn't change anything. However Sugar's ability is like Jura's where she turns them into something else altogether, so in theory if Jura being knocked out reversed her ability, then it would make sense that the same applies to Sugar. Essentially it seems like we're in agreement, I think I just might not have made the point I was trying to get across very clear before. Edit: But to clarify even more, the reason I brought up Law to begin with is because it's been shown that knocking Law out doesn't affect anything... everything stays in place (the hearts don't go back to their owners and say Monet would stay a harpy). The best way I can think of to summarize is: Jura's and (from what we know) Sugar's abilities are more like if a witch placed a curse turning someone into a frog... if you killed that witch they'd turn back to normal. But Law's or Moria's aren't really curses but more just physical changes like a surgeon removing body parts and moving them around. |
HalibelTheEspadaMar 12, 2014 9:04 AM
| ^ I never said I disagree with you :) It just bothered me Law is in this context. I don't see him related to this in any way. Robin also changes people by breaking their necks, yet their necks don't heal if you knock her unconcious :P /banal I get your point and everything, I just wanted to clarify that you can make an example of every paramecia this way, if it's convinient for the argument. Jura is the closest to be, and we should stick to her, for now |
| This world is mine. I think this world may even just be a long, long dream I'm watching. You guys may just be illusions, and it can't be proven whether or not you really exist either. In other words, this world was created with me at the center. So what will happen if I die? I don't know. My imagination isn't very creative; I just can't imagine myself dying. In other words, there is no way this world can completely disappear. But if I die, then everyone will disappear. I am the only one in this world who won't disappear. The rest are just people I see as if in a dream. -Claire Stanfield, Baccano! |
kiDnameDSkia said: Ah, okay... now I see what you're saying. That's a good point I suppose... he was just the first person who came to mind. I guess I could have just stuck to saying why Sugar and Jura were different and still got my point across. Sorry for making it more complicated than it needed to be then.^ I never said I disagree with you :) It just bothered me Law is in this context. I don't see him related to this in any way. Robin also changes people by breaking their necks, yet their necks don't heal if you knock her unconcious :P /banal I get your point and everything, I just wanted to clarify that you can make an example of every paramecia this way, if it's convinient for the argument. Jura is the closest to be, and we should stick to her, for now |
| Usopppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppp... but I guess that make sense.. -.- Robin got turned into a toy, daym. Usopp is fucked now. Kin'emon as Doflamingo fooled me for less than a second there. :) "Okay, can I whoop his ass now?" - Lol Luffy. I doubt Luffy would stand a chance against DD. I want someone to fight this Gladios dude, the fight might be good. |
ToG25thBaamApr 23, 2014 11:32 AM
| Honobono Log - best slice of life short -------------------------------------------- most kawaii loli overlord ---------------------------- Donquixote Doflamingo AMV - Control |
| It was obvious from the start guys, he's gonna act like a bitch, midgets will be in shit for it, having trusted him, emotional speech, brave ussop.. ... Probably in Sokeging's form. Lao g and The mask dude feel really out of place in a spanish themed arc. Lao seems chinese and that mask dude seems better fitted for Ph. I dont like that he has an explosive DF... AGAIN. Ussop's story nay turn out to be good. To everyone bitching about it: this seems the only time it might be donr well. Ok chapter. |
| Signature removed. Please follow the signature rules, as defined in the Site & Forum Guidelines. |
| Usopp just running away so he can make his comeback as Sogeking. It's always like that, I'm not worried in the least. |
| Proud founder of The Official Anti-Ging Freecss Fan Club Join now! Kellhus said: GuusWayne said: there is a limit to the suspension of disbelief And it's the fan that did it. Not the smoking porn reading rubik cube genius rape ape with a magic boat. |
| Usopp, you can't run away! |
 |
| With how much cowardice Usopp's displaying, I wonder what Oda is planning for his character. |
 |
| Robin could still use her powers even when turned into a doll, right? Maybe she could do something unexpected to help the crew! |
 She got him back. If you understand the characters well enough, you'd know she did! |
| Amazing, Ussop is the center of all the plan in everyplace and his is .... ...running away1!! kekeke |
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