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StrayBotato said: I liked Saber in F/SN more than F/Z. I liked Gil in F/Z more than in F/SN. For the rest I prefer F/SN Servants. But that's not to say I dislike F/Z Servants, Caster and Rider were very entertaining for example. I did not consider Saber because she is still technically the same Servant. Preferring F/SN's caster is the main one I do not understand. I hated Medea, srsly. Gilles was at least a lot of fun to watch. HentaiPriest said: Zadion said: I could let the forst sentence slide but this....oh boy no way in hell.Maybe Lancer in terms of personality, but not identity. What makes Cu a more interesting mythological figure than Diarmuid? |
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| What's there to like about F/Z's Caster opposed to F/SN Caster? All he does is kill kids and ramble with Ryuunosuke about how god might love killing children, lust after Saber and make funny faces. F/SN Caster's development in SN itself wasn't that great, but she certainly was a more sympathetic figure than Gilles ever managed to be even at his end. And had more reasoning behind her actions than Gilles drooling over Saber. The same can be said conversely, what makes Diarmuid more interesting? This is subjective, though, so I won't really comment on it. That said, I think everyone here is also including HA developments for the F/SN servants characters as well. |
InsertanamehereJan 5, 2015 4:43 AM
| Goodbye Rider,,(R.I.P) thanks Archer you didn't hurt my waver^ |
Insertanamehere said: What's there to like about F/Z's Caster opposed to F/SN Caster? All he does is kill kids and ramble with Ryuunosuke about how god might love killing children, lust after Saber and make funny faces. F/SN Caster's development in SN itself wasn't that great, but she certainly was a more sympathetic figure than Gilles ever managed to be even at his end. And had more reasoning behind her actions than Gilles drooling over Saber. The same can be said conversely, what makes Diarmuid more interesting? This is subjective, though, so I won't really comment on it. That said, I think everyone here is also including HA developments for the F/SN servants characters as well. Everyone except me. Well, you described exactly WHY I like Gilles. He was just fucking crazy, and there was pretty much nothing more to him than that. Is he one of my favorite characters? Hell no. (Ryuunosuke might be, though.) But I didn't dislike him; on the other hand, I just straight up hated Medea for the entirety of F/SN, though she did manage to yank a few feels out of me at the end at least. Being a more sympathetic figure doesn't equal to being a more interesting character or a character I enjoy watching more. But yeah, I am not including HA developments. |
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| So what part of Diarmuid's life make him more interesting than Cu? The ancient Romeo and Juliet mixed with Helen of Troy scenario? |
HentaiPriest said: So what part of Diarmuid's life make him more interesting than Cu? The ancient Romeo and Juliet mixed with Helen of Troy scenario? Frankly I think they are both interesting figures; I did not say I prefer Diarmuid, either, just that I do not also prefer Cu. But thanks for answering the question, bruh. |
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Zadion said: And Gil is still the same character. But the thing is, their roles in the story are different, and I liked Saber more in FSN, and liked Gil more in FZ.I did not consider Saber because she is still technically the same Servant. Preferring F/SN's caster is the main one I do not understand. I hated Medea, srsly. Gilles was at least a lot of fun to watch. As for Caster, I guess that's because of the difference in our preferences (I should have realized that sooner, as you have Yuno on your favorites). You seem to like insane characters, I can't really say the same (I like some of them but others either don't do it for me or I just out right despise). FZ Caster was very entertaining but he didn't have much going for him besides his over the top insanity and philosophy on God (well it was mostly his master's philosophy that I found interesting but still). So while I enjoyed watching him I didn't like him much. I liked Medea as the mid boss in UBW more than Gilles tbh. If we go by powers she's stronger too. That aside though, she summoned Sasaki and that alone makes her awesome :D |
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| F/SN Caster wins because she so kawaii desu. Spoiler from Carnival Phantasm and F/HA regarding F/SN Caster's identity and reputation F/Z Caster is also a very interesting character, but I'm not a fan of someone who's so twisted and crazy like that. |
ZeroDragonJan 5, 2015 8:05 PM
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| This episode totally got me emotionally worked up, more than I had expected myself to be... Have all my tears, Rider. |
| RIDER D: !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! My favorite char die :'( (but I already knew it xD spoiler :/ ) Hope archer don't win don't like him :/ |
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Zadion said: CookingPriest said: Yeah, not really, considering FZ servants are intentionally weaker and barring Berserker do not really have any interesting identities. subjective, but the only F/SN servant I'd consider to have a better or more interesting identity or personality than it's F/Z counterpart is Archer. Maybe Lancer in terms of personality, but not identity. I am sorry, WHAT? A badass irish hero with one of BEST deaths in all of legends >>>> A whiny bitch who died crying >>>> Lancelot and Kariya's NTR dreams Medea her backstory, her motivations and her characterization of gray morality >>>>> A random medieval psycho. Fake Assassin >>>> True Assassin. FSN Rider, her backstory and personality >>> A random tyrant who gets whitewashed by Urobutcher's writing flaws. Even FSN Saber trumphs the "chivalry stereotype" of FZ Saber. |
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CookingPriest said: Zadion said: subjective, but the only F/SN servant I'd consider to have a better or more interesting identity or personality than it's F/Z counterpart is Archer. Maybe Lancer in terms of personality, but not identity. I am sorry, WHAT? A badass irish hero with one of BEST deaths in all of legends >>>> A whiny bitch who died crying >>>> Lancelot and Kariya's NTR dreams Medea her backstory, her motivations and her characterization of gray morality >>>>> A random medieval psycho. Fake Assassin >>>> True Assassin. FSN Rider, her backstory and personality >>> A random tyrant who gets whitewashed by Urobutcher's writing flaws. Even FSN Saber trumphs the "chivalry stereotype" of FZ Saber. You are aware those are all subjective opinions, right? I'm all for people stating opinions as facts, as long as they're aware those are still opinions and they are not any more correct than the next person. In any case, The same argument could be made for Lancelot, but I strongly preferred Lancelot's characterization and design. But Berserker was never the most interesting character in either F/SN or F/Z. He was just cooler here, that's it. Medea was just an annoying character, seriously. I don't give a hell about her F/HA developments; she was an annoying character in F/SN. Gilles was fun to watch. Yeah, he was not a great character, but at least he was fun to watch. Medea was not. Fuck her developments and fuck Gilles developments too. Developments are NOT always the most important part of a character. They come second to the character actually being entertaining when s/he is on screen. And while I do quite like F/SN Rider, she's, like, a 7/10 character to me. Kind of straight faced and plain yet without the charm Saber has. F/Z Rider got me pumped with his exciting speeches and charisma, at least, but I would agree he does not have as good of development as F/SN Rider. And, again, Alexander was ALWAYS one of my favorite historical figures, even since childhood. I mean, even my 4th grade book report was about him. Needless to say, yeah, I thought it was awesome he was one of the Servants in F/Z. |
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| Maybe fate/zero rider is better but that's it. I must say though that true assassin is awesome just not in zero where they suck. F/sn hassan would've killed at least 10 of those buggers. |
 Anime is good, fucking deal with it. |
| I dont downplay Fz at all but really the only character that is better is Gil. |
black1blade said: Maybe fate/zero rider is better but that's it. I must say though that true assassin is awesome just not in zero where they suck. F/sn hassan would've killed at least 10 of those buggers. Assassin is the one area where F/Z's Servants are a total flop, I agree. |
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| Kikiki (is that a spoiler?) |
Anime is good, fucking deal with it. |
| Yeah f/z gil was pretty awesome and it's interesting to see I just didn't like how f/z trailed of at the end but that's my personal taste. |
Anime is good, fucking deal with it. |
Zadion said: No one does that but Fai and 2 people with Shinji avatars, who barely post anymore. |
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StrayBotato said: Zadion said: No one does that but Fai and 2 people with Shinji avatars, who barely post anymore.I wouldn't know; I just see a lot of it while reading old(ish) posts in the F/Z threads. |
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Zadion said: The same argument could be made for Lancelot, but I strongly preferred Lancelot's characterization and design. Lancelot's characterization = "RAWWWHAHRAWHTWAHWARHA". So much character. Medea was just an annoying character, seriously. I don't give a hell about her F/HA developments; she was an annoying character in F/SN. We have REALLY different tastes. She was the most interesting villain in FSN for me Gilles was fun to watch. Yeah, he was not a great character, but at least he was fun to watch. Giles was a fucking filler. And while I do quite like F/SN Rider, she's, like, a 7/10 character to me. Kind of straight faced and plain yet without the charm Saber has. F/Z Rider got me pumped with his exciting speeches and charisma, at least, but I would agree he does not have as good of development as F/SN Rider. And, again, Alexander was ALWAYS one of my favorite historical figures, even since childhood. I mean, even my 4th grade book report was about him. Needless to say, yeah, I thought it was awesome he was one of the Servants in F/Z. Yet again, opposite. I wrote a thesis on Alexander the Great being a Hitler of Greek Times when I was in my first few university years. Not downplaying. Every work has its strengths. Characters simply are not Zero's strength. Beyond Kerry and Kirei, everyone else exists solely to fulfill their role in FSN backstory. Zero's strength is seeing how the pieces fall together into the picture we have in FSN. |
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| Best bits of zero where the moments involving all the servants (ep4-5,14-15 ect). The dog fight was an amazing spectacle. |
Anime is good, fucking deal with it. |
CookingPriest said: Lancelot's characterization = "RAWWWHAHRAWHTWAHWARHA". So much character. And F/SN Berserker isn't all that much more, aside from his tenuous connection with Illya. Giles was a fucking filler. People use the term "filler" as a pejorative far too often. Yet again, opposite. I wrote a thesis on Alexander the Great being a Hitler of Greek Times when I was in my first few university years. That's an interesting point to bring up, because it's pretty much true. The thing is, I know a fair number of people who admire Hitler, too - not for his actions, but for his character and...well, "genius." Even in the real world, disgusting tyrants can be interesting people. Characters simply are not Zero's strength. Beyond Kerry and Kirei, everyone else exists solely to fulfill their role in FSN backstory. Zero's strength is seeing how the pieces fall together into the picture we have in FSN. Frankly, I think every single thing about it is a strength, but I digress. I don't think the characters existing to fulfill their role in F/SN backstory makes it any less well constructed. It's entirely arguable that F/SN's backstory is more interesting than its main story. |
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Zadion said: Depends on which posts you are talking about.StrayBotato said: No one does that but Fai and 2 people with Shinji avatars, who barely post anymore. I wouldn't know; I just see a lot of it while reading old(ish) posts in the F/Z threads. Before UBW started airing Fai and the others didn't say anything about F/Z. On the contrary they were defending it. But there WERE people who shit on F/Z and praised DEENight because, and I quote, "F/Z is all talking" and "there's no romance" among other things. Some people hate it simply because Urobuchi's name is attached to it. Some people just couldn't appreciate it (which is understandable if they haven't read F/SN). |
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StrayBotato said: Some people just couldn't appreciate it (which is understandable if they haven't read F/SN). I'd say if F/SN makes people see Zero as nothing more a piecing together of F/SN's backstory, then reading F/SN first ruins peoples' appreciation. |
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Zadion said: It's entirely arguable that F/SN's backstory is more interesting than its main story. Yeah, no. FSN backstory exists solely to flesh out Shirou Rin and Kirei. It is backstory for a reason. how Characters react and interact because of it is what's interesting and fresh about FSN. And that depth is not in Zero. because Zero is NOT about characters. Kirei and Kerry are developed. Everyone else is a stereotype to help connect what you learned in FSN and FHA together. Zero is n othing more than a battle royal without FSN. the depth and care for other characters only comes with context of FSN. There's a reason why Zero is supposed to be seen after FSN. StrayBotato said: Zadion said: Depends on which posts you are talking about.I wouldn't know; I just see a lot of it while reading old(ish) posts in the F/Z threads. Before UBW started airing Fai and the others didn't say anything about F/Z. On the contrary they were defending it. But there WERE people who shit on F/Z and praised DEENight because, and I quote, "F/Z is all talking" and "there's no romance" among other things. Some people hate it simply because Urobuchi's name is attached to it. Some people just couldn't appreciate it (which is understandable if they haven't read F/SN). You must have been confusing me with someone else, because if you look back at the threads. The only thing I defended about FZ is the right for Rin episodes to exist. |
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CookingPriest said: Zadion said: It's entirely arguable that F/SN's backstory is more interesting than its main story. Yeah, no. FSN backstory exists solely to flesh out Shirou Rin and Kirei. It is backstory for a reason. how Characters react and interact because of it is what's interesting and fresh about FSN. And that depth is not in Zero. because Zero is NOT about characters. Kirei and Kerry are developed. Everyone else is a stereotype to help connect what you learned in FSN and FHA together. Zero is n othing more than a battle royal without FSN. the depth and care for other characters only comes with context of FSN. There's a reason why Zero is supposed to be seen after FSN. So, if somebody watches Zero first and still manages to care for the characters, then is that somehow wrong? |
CookingPriest said: Zadion said: It's entirely arguable that F/SN's backstory is more interesting than its main story. Yeah, no. FSN backstory exists solely to flesh out Shirou Rin and Kirei. It is backstory for a reason. how Characters react and interact because of it is what's interesting and fresh about FSN. And that depth is not in Zero. because Zero is NOT about characters. Kirei and Kerry are developed. Everyone else is a stereotype to help connect what you learned in FSN and FHA together. Zero is n othing more than a battle royal without FSN. the depth and care for other characters only comes with context of FSN. There's a reason why Zero is supposed to be seen after FSN. It would be difficult to argue that F/SN's backstory in F/SN is more interesting than its main story, but not so difficult to argue that F/SN's backstory in F/Z is, as F/Z fleshed it out and turned into a full story just as complete as any other. And if Urobuchi took it upon himself to flesh out the backstory in an attempt to put it on par with F/SN's main story, would you tell me he intentionally only used character stereotypes as filler placeholder characters? Just for it to be worse? On purpose? Complimentary material for F/SN and nothing more, as if it was just a cheap fanfiction? And if so, how can you explain why so many F/Z watchers find so much to love in F/Z alone? Both in character and execution of its story. |
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| F/Z and F/SN are both fucking awesome, even as standalone. |
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Zadion said: That's not what I said <.<StrayBotato said: Some people just couldn't appreciate it (which is understandable if they haven't read F/SN). I'd say if F/SN makes people see Zero as nothing more a piecing together of F/SN's backstory, then reading F/SN first ruins peoples' appreciation. Some people may not care for it at all, but possibly if they have read F/SN first they would have. And reading F/SN doesn't make F/Z just that. |
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Zadion said: StrayBotato said: Some people just couldn't appreciate it (which is understandable if they haven't read F/SN). I'd say if F/SN makes people see Zero as nothing more a piecing together of F/SN's backstory, then reading F/SN first ruins peoples' appreciation. Did watching F/SN ruin your appreciation for F/z? I think you need to stop viewing a few angry people on the internet as a viable sample size. As zero said, ratings have shown that both are very successful by themselves. And putting them together only makes them better. I'm sure you'll agree. |
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WrongPriest said: Zadion said: I'd say if F/SN makes people see Zero as nothing more a piecing together of F/SN's backstory, then reading F/SN first ruins peoples' appreciation. Did watching F/SN ruin your appreciation for F/z? I think you need to stop viewing a few angry people on the internet as a viable sample size. As zero said, ratings have shown that both are very successful by themselves. And putting them together only makes them better. I'm sure you'll agree. What else am I supposed to use as my sample, then?! D: |
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| Shh, let's not go off-topic. |
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| I might be wrong, but when did Lancelot go crazy? and why on earth would he hate Arthur? wasn't he in the wrong for his affair with Guinevere. if anything, their positions should be reversed with Arthur going berserk with the revelation. then again in the original legend Arthur was a he, so I suppose this is the author using his artistic license. And boy, that NP was over the top crazy. if he had a weapon that powerful, then I'm kinda confused as to why they were fighting. they should have instead prostrated themselves before Gil at the first chance they got. talk about unfair! Finally, Waver lived!!! I was preparing myself for his death, seeing as how the characters were dropping like flies, even those not participating in the war but he survived! you know this reminded of the 300 movie, even Rider's last run after losing his army was kinda similar to Leonides charging towards Xerxes. This just earned you some R2 points, Gil. Just, I hope he survives this war. Please. Only 3 hours left... and 3 masters. |
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| He went crazy with guilt because she didn't punish him. Seeing as how you've watched F/SN, I'm confused as to how Ea is such a surprise. Or then again DEEN didn't really showcase it's power so I guess one could be surprised. And again seeing as you watched F/SN |
| I'm referring to Waver. pardon the English and at least 4 years have passed since I watched fsn, and I wasn't a big fan so can't expect me to remember everything. I don't even remember how most of the masters and servants died. |
R2Jan 30, 2015 6:33 AM
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R2 said: I'm referring to Waver. pardon the English and at least 4 years have passed since I watched fsn, and I wasn't a big fan so can't expect me to remember everything. I don't even remember how most of the masters and servants died. No one is talking about 2006 FSN because it is non-canon and the actual continuity ignores it. Nothing in Zero connects to that FSN. |
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| I bawled. I did so hard. I wasn't this despicable even when Lancer impaled himself. Sikandar (they call him that in my native tongue) was the loveliest of all Servants. I hate Gilgamesh. I hate him. I hate him to the core of his red eyes. I don't know if I hate him or his new Master more, but if there's a final win this series will grab for me, it's their pathetic deaths. Great back show with Berserker (what a pretty man he was in a past life). Kariya </3 |
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k0k0 said: I bawled. I did so hard. I wasn't this despicable even when Lancer impaled himself. Sikandar (they call him that in my native tongue) was the loveliest of all Servants. I hate Gilgamesh. I hate him. I hate him to the core of his red eyes. I don't know if I hate him or his new Master more, but if there's a final win this series will grab for me, it's their pathetic deaths. Great back show with Berserker (what a pretty man he was in a past life). Kariya </3 Your hatred gives me great yuetsu. |
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ZeroDragon said: Your hatred gives me great yuetsu. Little golden bitch. |
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k0k0 said: Lol you hate him this much now? Your hate for him will grow 10x more after FSN.ZeroDragon said: Your hatred gives me great yuetsu. Little golden bitch. |
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Ragna92 said: k0k0 said: Lol you hate him this much now? Your hate for him will grow 10x more after FSN.Little golden bitch. I look forward to it. It's been a long time since I've hated a fictional character so much lol |
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| Episode quite addictive, more than the clash between Rider and Archer, is that between Saber and Berserker to like it more, but the ending with the death of Rider is much more poignant in terms of feelings. Very nice quality of the drawings and animations, a feast for the eyes. |
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| So in the end Rider couldn't even lay a finger on him. The fight was really well animated, but in the end it was too one-sided by far. |
| The epic battle scene itself has already brought tears into my eyes, and then there's Rider's death |
Nier_22 said: Wow Gilgamesh is powerful. Also he might be arrogant but he's still honorable and respects other people which deserve respect. RIP Rider, he was amazing. It has nothing to do with honor or respect and everything to do with social darwinism. He does not view Rider as "equal" but as someone worthy of being crushed by his (obvious) superiority. |
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To his worthy opponent, whose entire body was skewered from head to toe by the rain of Noble Phantasms, yet who did not stop until thwarted by the Chain of Heaven, the King of Heroes gave his greatest reward - he honored him with true feelings of admiration. mmhm |
Insertanamehere said: To his worthy opponent, whose entire body was skewered from head to toe by the rain of Noble Phantasms, yet who did not stop until thwarted by the Chain of Heaven, the King of Heroes gave his greatest reward - he honored him with true feelings of admiration. mmhm Which in gil's logic is using his full power to crush him. Its not about respect or honor. Its about Gil being willing to actually bother dealing with you instead of calling you a mongrel. And it does feel hypocritical to since Herc accomplished even more and did not get that treatment Stv pls, stop trolling. |
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| Rider banzai |
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