Ckan said: CaptainYabuki said: So he did, and my mistake, I meant the Gaidens.Ckan said: BlackSabotage said: Define filler. There were the history episodes, and the OVAs could also count.LOTGH has no filler. Wait.. noone even mentioned Logh... this is why people find logh fans obnoxious. He mentioned LOTGH in his opening post plus LOTGH is an OVA. I didn't know anyone watched the Gaidens beside the "Elitists", and yeah those guys seem obnoxious. |
CaptainYabuki said: Ckan said: CaptainYabuki said: So he did, and my mistake, I meant the Gaidens.Ckan said: BlackSabotage said: Define filler. There were the history episodes, and the OVAs could also count.LOTGH has no filler. Wait.. noone even mentioned Logh... this is why people find logh fans obnoxious. He mentioned LOTGH in his opening post plus LOTGH is an OVA. I didn't know anyone watched the Gaidens beside the "Elitists", and yeah those guys seem obnoxious. i watched gaidens, and the 4 episode story format can get a little repetitive, but they were enjoyable overall; especially the spiral labirinth |
 |
| My issue with OP's question is that forcing divisions of 'long & short' series is even worse than those arguing over whether 'shounen' is a genre or demographic NoSurrender1690 said: And the show was all the better for taking it out, and making them extras.stupid comment here tohse so called Gaidens are in the novel before the ste stuff thats in the main show |
NoSurrender1690 said: CaptainYabuki said: Ckan said: CaptainYabuki said: So he did, and my mistake, I meant the Gaidens.Ckan said: BlackSabotage said: Define filler. There were the history episodes, and the OVAs could also count.LOTGH has no filler. Wait.. noone even mentioned Logh... this is why people find logh fans obnoxious. He mentioned LOTGH in his opening post plus LOTGH is an OVA. I didn't know anyone watched the Gaidens beside the "Elitists", and yeah those guys seem obnoxious. stupid comment here tohse so called Gaidens are in the novel before the ste stuff thats in the main show Relax, I never did try to dispute your point. I was referring to these guys: http://myanimelist.net/clubs.php?cid=24296 |
GreatWarlordFeb 21, 2014 6:56 AM
skyzblue said: hybreezy said: People bringing up Monster as an example of a good long series when it has atrocious pacing and should have been at least 20 or more episodes shorter. Rather than starting a shitstorm, let's take a different approach. You say Monster should be atleast 20 episodes less, right? If so, please clarify which parts of the plot you felt were 'filler', that is, were unnecessary to the plot progression. You may use spoiler tags. It's just so god damn slow at times for no particular reason with establishing shots, reusing ending footage to start a new episode, scenes that hang too long before cutting, and so on. I've heard the manga is a lot better because obviously one can read at a much faster pace, but I still have issues with the story itself that I doubt can be fixed from simply trimming the fat. Still didn't feel like a story that needed nearly 30 hours to be told. |
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| They tend to have fillers, drag on for too long, get repetitive and just be slow paced in comparison. You get more attached to the characters somewhat but you also often get a massive boost in obnoxious plot armour. Above all though it just takes way too much time in comparison. Quality >>> Quantity after all. |
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BlackSabotage said: LOTGH has no filler. I made no mention of LOTGH nor was I responding to you, not sure why you'd interject with only that. There are other factors besides filler which can make longer than average series a pain to watch, maintaining arc quality throughout being one. |
| the official MAL hall of fame/cursed comments is now open for business - you are welcome to PM me any potential quotes to include |
CaptainYabuki said: NoSurrender1690 said: CaptainYabuki said: I didn't know anyone watched the Gaidens beside the "Elitists", and yeah those guys seem obnoxious. stupid comment here tohse so called Gaidens are in the novel before the ste stuff thats in the main show Relax, I never did try to dispute your point. I was referring to these guys: http://myanimelist.net/clubs.php?cid=24296 way more than 22 people have seen the gaidens o0 |
|
romagia said: CaptainYabuki said: NoSurrender1690 said: CaptainYabuki said: I didn't know anyone watched the Gaidens beside the "Elitists", and yeah those guys seem obnoxious. stupid comment here tohse so called Gaidens are in the novel before the ste stuff thats in the main show Relax, I never did try to dispute your point. I was referring to these guys: http://myanimelist.net/clubs.php?cid=24296 way more than 22 people have seen the gaidens o0 I know, my fault for overgeneralizing. |
NoSurrender1690 said: CaptainYabuki said: romagia said: CaptainYabuki said: NoSurrender1690 said: CaptainYabuki said: I didn't know anyone watched the Gaidens beside the "Elitists", and yeah those guys seem obnoxious. stupid comment here tohse so called Gaidens are in the novel before the ste stuff thats in the main show Relax, I never did try to dispute your point. I was referring to these guys: http://myanimelist.net/clubs.php?cid=24296 way more than 22 people have seen the gaidens o0 I know, my fault for overgeneralizing. im not in the group and i watched the whole franchise I feel like I'm repeating myself but I already said that I made a mistake overgeneralizing. However that group does seem obnoxious which is what my point was. |
hybreezy said: skyzblue said: hybreezy said: People bringing up Monster as an example of a good long series when it has atrocious pacing and should have been at least 20 or more episodes shorter. Rather than starting a shitstorm, let's take a different approach. You say Monster should be atleast 20 episodes less, right? If so, please clarify which parts of the plot you felt were 'filler', that is, were unnecessary to the plot progression. You may use spoiler tags. It's just so god damn slow at times for no particular reason with establishing shots, reusing ending footage to start a new episode, scenes that hang too long before cutting, and so on. I've heard the manga is a lot better because obviously one can read at a much faster pace, but I still have issues with the story itself that I doubt can be fixed from simply trimming the fat. Still didn't feel like a story that needed nearly 30 hours to be told. First of all, slow plot =/= stretched plot. Secondly, you 'feel'? Couldn't be anymore vague, can you? Just because you 'feel' that one of the best stories to have come in anime history is 'stretched', right? Why not just pinpoint the problems, my friend? I am sorry, I feel a bit difficult to comprehend your 'feelings' about the plot of Monster. |
Kagami_Hiiragi said: Idc if you think its weird, I have a life and friends and an income of money. |
| Probably just because they dont end. That and filler. |
 |
| One Piece is one of the few-long runners where a long story is logically justified. |
skyzblue said: First of all, slow plot =/= stretched plot. Secondly, you 'feel'? Couldn't be anymore vague, can you? Just because you 'feel' that one of the best stories to have come in anime history is 'stretched', right? Why not just pinpoint the problems, my friend? I am sorry, I feel a bit difficult to comprehend your 'feelings' about the plot of Monster. You just like overlooked the short list of technical problems I listed and expect me to list the blatant plot problems you'd just overlook anyway? Pass on that. If you should for whatever reason find yourself in the Monster universe though I hope you never point a gun at someone because you're the one who will be shot instead after a "dramatic" offscreen gunshot. You can read Mokey's post on Page 11 and my post on page 12 of Episode 74 Discussion Topic for what I clearly don't get about the series though if you really want to. Since apparently I'm the only insane person in the room. |
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| Because they are shit. |
 |
hybreezy said: skyzblue said: First of all, slow plot =/= stretched plot. Secondly, you 'feel'? Couldn't be anymore vague, can you? Just because you 'feel' that one of the best stories to have come in anime history is 'stretched', right? Why not just pinpoint the problems, my friend? I am sorry, I feel a bit difficult to comprehend your 'feelings' about the plot of Monster. You just like overlooked the short list of technical problems I listed and expect me to list the blatant plot problems you'd just overlook anyway? Pass on that. If you should for whatever reason find yourself in the Monster universe though I hope you never point a gun at someone because you're the one who will be shot instead after a "dramatic" offscreen gunshot. You can read Mokey's post on Page 11 and my post on page 12 of Episode 74 Discussion Topic for what I clearly don't get about the series though if you really want to. Since apparently I'm the only insane person in the room. Ah, your technical problems..right, what was that again? Use of previous episode's ending shot to start the next episode? What are you, a newcomer? What anime doesn't do that? And regarding scenes that hang too long, they add to the atmosphere. Then again, looking at your list, I guess its useless to convince a LoGH elitist. |
Kagami_Hiiragi said: Idc if you think its weird, I have a life and friends and an income of money. |
skyzblue said: hybreezy said: skyzblue said: First of all, slow plot =/= stretched plot. Secondly, you 'feel'? Couldn't be anymore vague, can you? Just because you 'feel' that one of the best stories to have come in anime history is 'stretched', right? Why not just pinpoint the problems, my friend? I am sorry, I feel a bit difficult to comprehend your 'feelings' about the plot of Monster. You just like overlooked the short list of technical problems I listed and expect me to list the blatant plot problems you'd just overlook anyway? Pass on that. If you should for whatever reason find yourself in the Monster universe though I hope you never point a gun at someone because you're the one who will be shot instead after a "dramatic" offscreen gunshot. You can read Mokey's post on Page 11 and my post on page 12 of Episode 74 Discussion Topic for what I clearly don't get about the series though if you really want to. Since apparently I'm the only insane person in the room. Ah, your technical problems..right, what was that again? Use of previous episode's ending shot to start the next episode? What are you, a newcomer? What anime doesn't do that? And regarding scenes that hang too long, they add to the atmosphere. Then again, looking at your list, I guess its useless to convince a LoGH elitist. There are a lot of anime that do that, except the difference is you could probably shed 6-7 episodes worth of Monster from reused footage alone. Also of course the MAL way, attacking a dude's favourites you disagree with. Only this time I got the two birds with one stone and called a LoGH elitist (because I like it I guess?) too. Should have just lumped in Eva too for the Trifecta tbh. |
|
| I liove Monster but I have to side with hybreezy here a bit. His criticism is valid even tough its maybe a bit oveblown, I also think that Monster could have been a bit shorter. Maybe 72 episodes instead of 77. And the problem is simply that if you feel that the show is dragging a bit then it means that you enjoy it a bit less, which is a bad thing. |
| I don't particularly hate long running anime like those described here, it's just that I prefer not to watch them because their plots are generally too stretched out for my taste. |
| Monster should have never been a 74 episodes anime. Tenma is so stupid and predictable.. |
|
baki502 said: I liove Monster but I have to side with hybreezy here a bit. His criticism is valid even tough its maybe a bit oveblown, I also think that Monster could have been a bit shorter. Maybe 72 episodes instead of 77. And the problem is simply that if you feel that the show is dragging a bit then it means that you enjoy it a bit less, which is a bad thing. If you say it should be 72 instead of 74, you realise you have to cut some part of plot and possibly character development. The fact of use of reused footage is hilarious, its a 74 episode series, there will be use of reused footage (every anime does that; fucking RGU used reused footage every single episode). Mind you there were no recaps. And as for the dragging of the plot, the slowness of the plot adds to the atmosphere. Another example of that is Mushishi, the plot's slow because it needs to be. You can't expect every plot to be at break neck speed. |
Kagami_Hiiragi said: Idc if you think its weird, I have a life and friends and an income of money. |
| these type of discussion, are getting repetitive. It will only lead to conflict. |
skyzblue said: baki502 said: I liove Monster but I have to side with hybreezy here a bit. His criticism is valid even tough its maybe a bit oveblown, I also think that Monster could have been a bit shorter. Maybe 72 episodes instead of 77. And the problem is simply that if you feel that the show is dragging a bit then it means that you enjoy it a bit less, which is a bad thing. If you say it should be 72 instead of 74, you realise you have to cut some part of plot and possibly character development. The fact of use of reused footage is hilarious, its a 74 episode series, there will be use of reused footage (every anime does that; fucking RGU used reused footage every single episode). Mind you there were no recaps. And as for the dragging of the plot, the slowness of the plot adds to the atmosphere. Another example of that is Mushishi, the plot's slow because it needs to be. You can't expect every plot to be at break neck speed. +1.. |
 |
skyzblue said: baki502 said: I liove Monster but I have to side with hybreezy here a bit. His criticism is valid even tough its maybe a bit oveblown, I also think that Monster could have been a bit shorter. Maybe 72 episodes instead of 77. And the problem is simply that if you feel that the show is dragging a bit then it means that you enjoy it a bit less, which is a bad thing. If you say it should be 72 instead of 74, you realise you have to cut some part of plot and possibly character development. The fact of use of reused footage is hilarious, its a 74 episode series, there will be use of reused footage (every anime does that; fucking RGU used reused footage every single episode). Mind you there were no recaps. And as for the dragging of the plot, the slowness of the plot adds to the atmosphere. Another example of that is Mushishi, the plot's slow because it needs to be. You can't expect every plot to be at break neck speed. I've already clarified what I meant by reused footage. I'll refer to Mawaru Penguindrum as an example since I haven't see RGU yet. I'm not talking about reusing a transformation scene like with Seizon Senryaku, I'm talking about taking the last 2-3 minutes of an episode and using it to start the next. There was no need to do this as much as they did unless they were trying to make the show 74 episodes, in which case good job on them again. And in the case of tension, as I alluded to earlier they really force it with the stand offs that result in off screen gunshots. It gets especially silly in the last 5 or 6 episodes, but it's seen throughout the whole series. It gets predictable and nonsensical. |
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| Easier to hate on something that'd require such a commitment. I've only watched ten series over 40 eps (top three are 70, 74, and 109) so I have a little experience with them, so other reasons could be the slower pace, filler, repeats, filler, harder-to-follow overarching plots when you can barely remember why they're doing this one thing who's reason was stated 20-some eps ago, and filler. |
| Never forget, that if you post a topic, you're not allowed to post in it yourself, by order of MAL administration. |
keragamming said: these type of discussion, are getting repetitive. It will only lead to conflict. This. Some people just can't seem to accept that others have different preferences, and blow it out of proportion. |
hybreezy said: skyzblue said: baki502 said: I liove Monster but I have to side with hybreezy here a bit. His criticism is valid even tough its maybe a bit oveblown, I also think that Monster could have been a bit shorter. Maybe 72 episodes instead of 77. And the problem is simply that if you feel that the show is dragging a bit then it means that you enjoy it a bit less, which is a bad thing. If you say it should be 72 instead of 74, you realise you have to cut some part of plot and possibly character development. The fact of use of reused footage is hilarious, its a 74 episode series, there will be use of reused footage (every anime does that; fucking RGU used reused footage every single episode). Mind you there were no recaps. And as for the dragging of the plot, the slowness of the plot adds to the atmosphere. Another example of that is Mushishi, the plot's slow because it needs to be. You can't expect every plot to be at break neck speed. I've already clarified what I meant by reused footage. I'll refer to Mawaru Penguindrum as an example since I haven't see RGU yet. I'm not talking about reusing a transformation scene like with Seizon Senryaku, I'm talking about taking the last 2-3 minutes of an episode and using it to start the next. There was no need to do this as much as they did unless they were trying to make the show 74 episodes, in which case good job on them again. And in the case of tension, as I alluded to earlier they really force it with the stand offs that result in off screen gunshots. It gets especially silly in the last 5 or 6 episodes, but it's seen throughout the whole series. It gets predictable and nonsensical. Regarding your first point, every anime does that more or less, I am not going to waste my time on that. And, secondly, regarding the gunshots, I just thought that was realistic. I have no experience in shooting someone, so I can't say the tension shown was forced off or not. The fact that Tenma hesitated to shoot everytime was clear. He's a fuckin doctor, a live saver, not the opposite. The tension showed his inner conflicts imho |
Kagami_Hiiragi said: Idc if you think its weird, I have a life and friends and an income of money. |
| I don't really hate them, but after finishing a bunch of them I noticed certain patterns a lot of them share which I don't like and began to avoid them. There are of course exceptions, but it seems to me that series get worse the longer they run. 1. No payoff: As a fan of things that actually tell their story and end, longer series are riskier to watch because a lot of them don't end well or even have what I'd consider a conclusion. IE: the main mystery is not solved, the person does not complete their quest or achieve their goal. 2. Repetitiveness: They are often quite formulaic, and that can get old. 3. Lack of Consistency: The quality of storytelling can drop and there will most likely be pointless filler and lots of recap episodes and flashbacks to things we've already seen to waste my time. 4. Time spent watching: I could complete more shorter shows in time it would take me to watch one long one. |
| "The name's Gambit. Remember it." -Gambit "X-Men '97"  |
skyzblue said: baki502 said: I liove Monster but I have to side with hybreezy here a bit. His criticism is valid even tough its maybe a bit oveblown, I also think that Monster could have been a bit shorter. Maybe 72 episodes instead of 77. And the problem is simply that if you feel that the show is dragging a bit then it means that you enjoy it a bit less, which is a bad thing. If you say it should be 72 instead of 74, you realise you have to cut some part of plot and possibly character development. The fact of use of reused footage is hilarious, its a 74 episode series, there will be use of reused footage (every anime does that; fucking RGU used reused footage every single episode). Mind you there were no recaps. And as for the dragging of the plot, the slowness of the plot adds to the atmosphere. Another example of that is Mushishi, the plot's slow because it needs to be. You can't expect every plot to be at break neck speed. I dont see how every anime doing it makes it better? Every anime that does it makes it a bit less enjoyable in my opinion, without exception, and I will criticize this in every anime. Saying that almost every anime does it and so its fine is as saying that you arent allowed to criticize fanservice and filler because almost every anime has it. I wont stand for that. And as for the plot dragging out, yes it is highly subjective but I just felt a bit bored around the middle of the anime. And I am used to slow anime, after all I also watched Texhnolyze, Ergo Proxy, Angels Egg and Attack on Titan, all which are very slow anime, but it still got the feeling that it might be a bit dragging on too much around the middle of it. But overall I still LOVED Monster. Hell I gave it a 10/10 and I usually dont give 10s that easy and dislike long anime. And it still was great enough for me that despite some small pacing issues and its length I gave it a 10/10. All I am saying is that Monster isnt completely perfect in my opinion if you cant deal with that then tough luck being you. |
| They don't have enough patience. |
 |
| Because they don't feel like it's worth to spend so much time on a slowpaced show when they could watch like 50 anime of normal lenght. |
baki502 said: skyzblue said: baki502 said: I liove Monster but I have to side with hybreezy here a bit. His criticism is valid even tough its maybe a bit oveblown, I also think that Monster could have been a bit shorter. Maybe 72 episodes instead of 77. And the problem is simply that if you feel that the show is dragging a bit then it means that you enjoy it a bit less, which is a bad thing. If you say it should be 72 instead of 74, you realise you have to cut some part of plot and possibly character development. The fact of use of reused footage is hilarious, its a 74 episode series, there will be use of reused footage (every anime does that; fucking RGU used reused footage every single episode). Mind you there were no recaps. And as for the dragging of the plot, the slowness of the plot adds to the atmosphere. Another example of that is Mushishi, the plot's slow because it needs to be. You can't expect every plot to be at break neck speed. I dont see how every anime doing it makes it better? Every anime that does it makes it a bit less enjoyable in my opinion, without exception, and I will criticize this in every anime. Saying that almost every anime does it and so its fine is as saying that you arent allowed to criticize fanservice and filler because almost every anime has it. I wont stand for that. And as for the plot dragging out, yes it is highly subjective but I just felt a bit bored around the middle of the anime. And I am used to slow anime, after all I also watched Texhnolyze, Ergo Proxy, Angels Egg and Attack on Titan, all which are very slow anime, but it still got the feeling that it might be a bit dragging on too much around the middle of it. But overall I still LOVED Monster. Hell I gave it a 10/10 and I usually dont give 10s that easy and dislike long anime. And it still was great enough for me that despite some small pacing issues and its length I gave it a 10/10. All I am saying is that Monster isnt completely perfect in my opinion if you cant deal with that then tough luck being you. Hmmm...as you already said, it is subjective. I have no problems with it being that long, it needed to be to cover everything. As for the pacing, its perfect for me, tough luck if you think otherwise I guess :3 |
Kagami_Hiiragi said: Idc if you think its weird, I have a life and friends and an income of money. |
Ulquiorra1923 said: They don't have enough patience. Well its not really patience. When youre patient your waiting for something. But what are you waiting for when watching a long anime? Id rather say is that people who dont watch anime kant stay interested in the same thing for too long. I am like that with almost everything I need a lot of variety in my life. Even with games I play a shitton of games at the same time and most of the time dont even finish said games. Sure they are fun and I am having fun playing them but after a while I just get bored of it because its samey. Only the best of the best I keep playing for a long time and the only real single player game that has applied to is Dark Souls. All the other ones are MP games where the competition with other player is what pushes me to play them. But anime doesnt have that. So if isnt the best thing ever I just want something new and interesting all the time and get bored of one anime after about 30 episodes even if its good. Well unless the anime manages to have a lot of variety and changes of pace within itself. |
| is it just me or is everybody talking 'bout long running stuff lately |
 |
| Funny, I really love this argument: "You could watch *enter random number here* different series during the time taken for one of those long runners". I really love it, especially considering how most of every "short" anime mostly follow the same damn cliches that it's main genre has. |
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Ulquiorra1923 said: I completely agree with this statement. People who only like short series and hate long series to me seem to only be looking for instant gratification.They don't have enough patience. |
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| I think it's easier to hate a longer series because more longer series have larger fanbases. The longer a series is, the more time it has to gain new fans. Because of that I feel some people feel like a show is overrated because it has more fans than their favorite short series. I think long series are at more risk of going sour, but there are some really good ones that get just as much hate. But then again I've seen some short series that are rushed, so end up being bad. Then again I've seen lots of good ones. To me it's just who can complain the loudest. |
| -Lack of patience -Expecting a 50-100+ anime to have character development and reveals as quickly a 12-26 episode anime. -If you've only seen mediocre/bad ones you would start to have doubts on others -Bad first impressions -Some have bad pacing I dare say mob mentality plays a factor as well, tbh. |
bennitori said: I think it's easier to hate a longer series because more longer series have larger fanbases. The longer a series is, the more time it has to gain new fans. Because of that I feel some people feel like a show is overrated because it has more fans than their favorite short series. I think long series are at more risk of going sour, but there are some really good ones that get just as much hate. But then again I've seen some short series that are rushed, so end up being bad. Then again I've seen lots of good ones. To me it's just who can complain the loudest. /thread |
 |
bennitori said: I think it's easier to hate a longer series because more longer series have larger fanbases. The longer a series is, the more time it has to gain new fans. Because of that I feel some people feel like a show is overrated because it has more fans than their favorite short series. I think long series are at more risk of going sour, but there are some really good ones that get just as much hate. But then again I've seen some short series that are rushed, so end up being bad. Then again I've seen lots of good ones. To me it's just who can complain the loudest. I completely agree with you there. It all depends on preferences, though. Some people would rather watch shorter anime (I do like a good long-runner, I've watched quite a few of those). To sum it up, long anime are long :P |
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bennitori said: I think it's easier to hate a longer series because more longer series have larger fanbases. The longer a series is, the more time it has to gain new fans. Because of that I feel some people feel like a show is overrated because it has more fans than their favorite short series. I think long series are at more risk of going sour, but there are some really good ones that get just as much hate. But then again I've seen some short series that are rushed, so end up being bad. Then again I've seen lots of good ones. To me it's just who can complain the loudest. OR... statistically speaking, maybe the larger the number, the more people will dislike it, not necessarily because of the fanbase? The only believable cases where "unjustified/due to fanbase" hatred exist are anime that explode with popularity all of a sudden. Such as SAO and AoT, regardless of whether they are good or bad. As for the big 3, maybe there just are many people who don't think they are good because the fanbase IS huge? |
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