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HeisenDurden said: Airveen said: I still dont understand why he was happy dying. I still don't understand why he found the killing of women and children entertaining. Why do you want to understand the mind of a psycho serial killer? |
ssjokg said: HeisenDurden said: Airveen said: I still dont understand why he was happy dying. I still don't understand why he found the killing of women and children entertaining. Why do you want to understand the mind of a psycho serial killer? I was pointing out what you just said. Understanding psychopaths is pointless. |
HeisenMay 4, 2014 5:44 AM
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| 1. That plane got devoured like a Venus flytrap capturing a bug 2. Those fight scenes were pretty good. Ryuunosuke got what he deserves 7/10 |
| 俺の命を百合に。 Currently translating Sono Hanabira ni Kuchizuke o - Atelier no Koibito-tachi -- when bored. Above visual novel is 22.22% translated with progress uploaded to youtube; if you're into yuri VNs, check out my channel.  |
| Sweet! The new OP has my motorcycle in it (Yamaha V-Max). |
souledge94 said: jet+giant monster=not good results.The real question is what kind of father would abandon his daughter the answer is not a very good one.Im sure sakura would have still been happy if she could stay with her actual family. since this is a prequel I know this prick will die and I cant wait to clap for that moment. A topic that will never get old. Tokiomi had his reasons and did what he thought was the best for his child, as in his opinion, there was no other way. No one says his reasons were really legitimate reasons to give Sakura away and in hindsight it was a really stupid move, but based on what he knew about the magi's ethics and Sakura's hidden talents (something the anime leaves out, but it's partially explained in the novel), it was not an incomprehensible one. There were other options, but if Zouken was actually a nice guy and Sakura got the education Tokiomi hoped she would get, it would have possibly been the best one for her. In his opinion. |
| Well, in his opinion, even if Rin and Sakura try and kill each other in the future for some magi goal, especially the Tohsaka's goal, then everything is fine since that is the best the family could get because even though Sakura has the Matou name she still has Tohsaka blood. I think what we should hate on, is the very generic way of life magi have, not individuals since we get stuck on the "that's how they are".That doesnt really justify the treatment Sakura and others get. |
ssjokg said: I think what we should hate on, is the very generic way of life magi have, not individuals since we get stuck on the "that's how they are".That doesnt really justify the treatment Sakura and others get. Or the fact that he was retarded enough to gave his daughter to Zouken out of all people. |
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HeisenDurden said: ssjokg said: I think what we should hate on, is the very generic way of life magi have, not individuals since we get stuck on the "that's how they are".That doesnt really justify the treatment Sakura and others get. Or the fact that he was retarded enough to gave his daughter to Zouken out of all people. Well his thoughts on the potential fight to the death they may have in the future shows that even without giving her to Zouken, he would still be a shitty father by normal standards. |
souledge94 said: The real question is what kind of father would abandon his daughter the answer is not a very good one.Im sure sakura would have still been happy if she could stay with her actual family. since this is a prequel I know this prick will die and I cant wait to clap for that moment.YES! Ryuunosuke is dead wish he would have suffered more. That happiness would depend on her survival. In tokiomi's eyes, for a family that relies solely on their recognition to not get dissected, giving Sakura " a chance" at Matou household seemed more productive. Of course it was not a good choice because WE know more than he does. But at least in all possible futures both of them remain alive this way. ssjokg said: Well, in his opinion, even if Rin and Sakura try and kill each other in the future for some magi goal, especially the Tohsaka's goal, then everything is fine since that is the best the family could get because even though Sakura has the Matou name she still has Tohsaka blood. I think what we should hate on, is the very generic way of life magi have, not individuals since we get stuck on the "that's how they are".That doesnt really justify the treatment Sakura and others get. Which is generally how magi world works. Being rivals on even grounds trying to kill each other > One not even getting that and getting dissected somewhere. In his mind this gives them equal chances at making it. Awful in human society standards? Sure. Noble in Magus standards? Yep. HeisenDurden said: ssjokg said: I think what we should hate on, is the very generic way of life magi have, not individuals since we get stuck on the "that's how they are".That doesnt really justify the treatment Sakura and others get. Or the fact that he was retarded enough to gave his daughter to Zouken out of all people. Its canon that he did not know though. |
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ssjokg said: HeisenDurden said: ssjokg said: I think what we should hate on, is the very generic way of life magi have, not individuals since we get stuck on the "that's how they are".That doesnt really justify the treatment Sakura and others get. Or the fact that he was retarded enough to gave his daughter to Zouken out of all people. Well his thoughts on the potential fight to the death they may have in the future shows that even without giving her to Zouken, he would still be a shitty father by normal standards. We all know he sucks as a parent and father. Fai said: Its canon that he did not know though. Still makes him retarted, because he gave her away without second thoughts and what happened to her afterwards never bothered him again. |
CapsuleCoreMay 24, 2014 2:54 AM
| You know very well that you make the Association seem way worse than they already are. As I said before they would need a SERIOUS REASON to take Sakura even if they wanted her. If they are as you say they are, Rin isnt really safe either, since no magi of the western world will really care about the fuss those savage monkeys will make, if the successor is kidnapped. It's canon that he never cared to know though. |
ssjokg said: You know very well that you make the Association seem way worse than they already are. As I said before they would need a SERIOUS REASON to take Sakura even if they wanted her. If they are as you say they are, Rin isnt really safe either, since no magi of the western world will really care about the fuss those savage monkeys will make, if the successor is kidnapped. It's canon that he never cared to know though. I am not just talking about association doing it. Rin is only safe for her status, exactly. (and as shown in FSN that's not evne enough and you need someone like Zelretch). |
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Fai said: There are two big factions that everyone fears, the MA and the Church. And they need a reason to act.I am not just talking about association doing it. Everyone else would try some nasty shit either way whether Sakura was with the Matou or Tohsaka. It would be the job of her guardians to protect her if they even wanted to. The really bad MA you keep talking about wouldnt do anything to help them seriously. Fai said: Rin is only safe for her status, exactly. (and as shown in FSN that's not evne enough and you need someone like Zelretch). Then she isnt safe because of her status. They just wait for her to do some "mistake" |
ssjokgMay 24, 2014 3:32 AM
Fai said: Its canon that he did not know though. I know that, but that's still no excuse. Zouken himself volunteered to adopt Sakura. Didn't he find it a bit suspicious, or to good to be true? Plus even he should have known that Zouken isn't the most trustworthy fellow. |
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HeisenDurden said: Fai said: Its canon that he did not know though. I know that, but that's still no excuse. Zouken himself volunteered to adopt Sakura. Didn't he find it a bit suspicious, or to good to be true? Plus even he should have known that Zouken isn't the most trustworthy fellow. Why would he find it suspicious? The Matou family is in ruin and need to get a good mage. It's expected that they look for one, and Zouken's request is completely understandable from Tokiomi's point of view. Also Zouken NEEDS Sakura to become a strong mage, even if Tokiomi finds him untrustworthy he still expects Zouken to make full use of Sakura's potential, which is also exactly what Tokiomi wants. |
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Botato said: HeisenDurden said: Fai said: Its canon that he did not know though. I know that, but that's still no excuse. Zouken himself volunteered to adopt Sakura. Didn't he find it a bit suspicious, or to good to be true? Plus even he should have known that Zouken isn't the most trustworthy fellow. Why would he find it suspicious? The Matou family is in ruin and need to get a good mage. I forgot about that, you're right. I know it sounds like I'm nitpicking, but given how everyone refers to Zouken as a vampire/rotten old man with a shady past, I just still find Tokiomi's decision retarded. |
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ssjokg said: There are two big factions that everyone fears, the MA and the Church. And they need a reason to act. Everyone else would try some nasty shit either way whether Sakura was with the Matou or Tohsaka. It would be the job of her guardians to protect her if they even wanted to. The really bad MA you keep talking about wouldnt do anything to help them seriously. Correction. Three factions. Church Dead Apostles Clocktower That's not counting the wildcard like rogue magi, rogue DAs, phantasmal beasts, counterforce, inside factions in the above factions(Altrouge's clique in DA's having their own plans beyond DA fascination with Dark Six, the factions of Clocktower, etc) or the true hidden factions, let's not forget the "Freelancer figures" too like Arcueid, who give no fucks to power balance of the world. Tokiomi knew that the ONLY way to get association to help them if problem occurs is to incur on their heritage and name. We are talking about the family who converted to christianity just to not get fucked over by church - selling your child to another family to ensure their survival is right within bounds of their actions. The difference that separates Tohsaka family from monsters like Matous or Einzberns is self-awareness - they do not just set off to change laws of universe - they know what size they actually are and just how easily forces can crush them. Out of Three Great Families, Tohsaka family is the only one with actual somewhat "human perspective" in themselves. Its why Zelretch sees Rin as worthy - he sees a chance that unlike Zouken or Einzebern family members, even when discovering such power that Rin did, Rin still would be herself. That's what intrigues him and amuses him. To see how far someone like that - someone who has both talent AND humanity, can go. Then she isnt safe because of her status. They just wait for her to do some "mistake" She is Safe-er. Note that WHO she is still ends up saving her. If not for her legacy and her name, she would be in a jar. HeisenDurden said: Botato said: HeisenDurden said: Fai said: Its canon that he did not know though. I know that, but that's still no excuse. Zouken himself volunteered to adopt Sakura. Didn't he find it a bit suspicious, or to good to be true? Plus even he should have known that Zouken isn't the most trustworthy fellow. Why would he find it suspicious? The Matou family is in ruin and need to get a good mage. I forgot about that, you're right. I know it sounds like I'm nitpicking, but given how everyone refers to Zouken as a vampire/rotten old man with a shady past, I just still find Tokiomi's decision retarded. Because it is still the only real choice Tokiomi has. If he knew the truth he would look for alternatives because they would not seem worse then. |
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| The Dead Apostles and anything that isnt a part of the Church or Association doesnt matter. We are talking about the Church or the Association taking someone by force. The factions of the Clocktower are still part of the MA and even if they act in secret, it just means that the status of a monkey isnt something that will stop them. Tokiomi could have chose ANOTHER family. NOT an infamous magus just because the guy(Zouken) was desperate. If the survival is just so they can reach goals and having reputation and not actually have a life then it isnt any different from what the MA would do. And if he cared that much, the least he could have done is check on her. There was no logical reason to make a deal of "having no business with her" after she is taken. The Tohsaka name has nothing to do with Rin having humanity. Just like the fact that in the end, having a name and inheritance does not protect them at all, if things are as you say they are, and we have the demon hunting families, one of them having at least one person being able to wound a Servant like monster, to prove that it ISNT like you say. |
ssjokg said: The Dead Apostles and anything that isnt a part of the Church or Association doesnt matter. Yes they do. Church, DAAs and MA are locked in three way conflict. Where one side moves, the other two do too to protect their interests. The 27 Dead Apostle Ancestors are not just "classification", its an actual faction, with a common goal(Dark Six). Sure some of them play for the other team(Zelretch) and some have their own interests(Altrouge's faction giving no fucks about Dark Six and focusing on Crimson Moon), but that changes nothing The only reason either of three factions did NOT assure the global domination and destroy the other two, is mutually assured destruction - all three sides have enough Haxx to wipe the planet. You can't just "Exclude" one of them. If the balance is broken, dystopia can ensues(see: Fate/Extra, Fate/Kaleid Liner PRisma Illya, Notes, Apocrypha, the FSN future civil war) We are talking about the Church or the Association taking someone by force. No we are not. The factions of the Clocktower are still part of the MA and even if they act in secret, it just means that the status of a monkey isnt something that will stop them. But status of Head of Tohsaka Family is something that would make the rest more inclined to interfere Tokiomi could have chose ANOTHER family. NOT an infamous magus just because the guy(Zouken) was desperate. If the survival is just so they can reach goals and having reputation and not actually have a life then it isnt any different from what the MA would do. And if he cared that much, the least he could have done is check on her. There was no logical reason to make a deal of "having no business with her" after she is taken. He could. Without info about Zouken's true goals other options were worse. There was a logical reason for silence agreement - If no one knew Sakura is Tohsaka, they would treat her like a Matou, which was the whole point of it. being too stupid to see the speciffics =/= not knowing there are things dangerous to you in the world. That's source of Tohsaka's paranoia. The night is dark and full of terrors. The Tohsaka name has nothing to do with Rin having humanity. In Zelretch's POV it does - Its literally "Oh its Nagato's successor? Dude managed to encounter me and NOT have his family turn into shitty mess of cosmic horror? Well, geee, this will be interesting" |
AhenshihaelMay 24, 2014 8:07 AM
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| DA and everything elsehas nothing to do with MA or the Church kidnapping someone. That was the point of this discussion in multiple threads. Unrelated individuals and factions do not matter. Being close to the family head and the REST of the rest family would do the same. It isnt about Zouken's true goals.It is about Zouken himself. You honestly believe that Tokiomi was the only one in the world to not notice that he isnt a honest person? That isnt a logical reason. The families had close ties thanks to the creation of the ritual, getting close again wouldnt seem strange. You know I find it hard to believe that a guy that supposedly wants the best for his daughter just gives her to the first guy knocking at his door. Treating a being that can easily destroy the town you supervise with barely the respect it deserves isnt "the specifics". Rin is how she is because |
ssjokg said: DA and everything elsehas nothing to do with MA or the Church kidnapping someone. That was the point of this discussion in multiple threads. Unrelated individuals and factions do not matter. Nope. The topic has always been about the threats to the sisters in the Magus world and how being head of a family can benefit them in protecting against them. Being close to the family head and the REST of the rest family would do the same. Not really since the one "close to" would have no actual "worth". The allies can just cry crocodile tears and bring bad news then. It isnt about Zouken's true goals.It is about Zouken himself. You honestly believe that Tokiomi was the only one in the world to not notice that he isnt a honest person? See: tokiomi and kirei. as I said before, Tokiomi's an idiot. That isnt a logical reason. The families had close ties thanks to the creation of the ritual, getting close again wouldnt seem strange. Considering the Three Great getting close together s enough to attract Church's attention, nope. You know I find it hard to believe that a guy that supposedly wants the best for his daughter just gives her to the first guy knocking at his door. Blame the narrative for that. They could have added ten or so pages detailing Tokiomi's search for other options. We know he did. Treating a being that can easily destroy the town you supervise with barely the respect it deserves isnt "the specifics". See above: Tokiomi's an idiot. Rin is how she is because 1. We do not know the EVENTUAL outcome. Just that she won't be happy. Which is a point of view of Nasu. For me - a true happiness built after sorrow brought by clarity is worth far more than happiness built upon a lie. You'll have to wait for the upcoming Tohsaka Rin focused Visual Novel/Light Novel that deals with aftermath of one or multiple routes(common guess is that the Sea Cruise Mystery involves some inter-dimensional fuckery between different realities) and how she views what she found out about everything. 2. As I said above that's not how Zelretch sees it. |
AhenshihaelMay 24, 2014 8:50 AM
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| Not gonna participate in this discussion anymore, just wanted to say: |
| Nope it was about random Sealing Designations forced on those without the rights of inheritance. With or w/o the inheritance threats from outside the Association would be the same for those "savage monkeys". Even Tokiomi's concerns are about the Association only. Not even the Church. In the case of the japanese, that nobody cares about in the western magi world, it would be the same even with a family name to "protect" them. There is a limit. You cant say that he is just an idiot. The Church that was allied with the Tohsaka family, the supervisors of Fuyuki, for the 4th and future wars? Yeah they would be really angry at them and cut all ties in an instant. Any source that proves that?Or it is just speculation? So he is an idiot only when it supports your argument?He is no genius like Rin but the story never portrayed him as an actual reatard. When it was about Rin he never stopped thinking of her future but for Sakura that ended the moment Zouken asked for her.After that it was "gee lets hope she is trained good enough to be a match for Rin". 1.So lets ignore the word of god because it is his view?What about Gen's view on Tokiomi? Tokiomi's "concerns" about Sakura dont match his actions. And that is YOUR view. If we dont take the original creators word as facts then we might as well accept everything, like Last Episode, or Rider not being as horrible as the real one, etc etc. You want MY views on this? Yeah I will wait for a story that will never come in order to confirm your speculations...Nice idea... 2.But thats how it would be. And that would change how he would view her. |
ssjokgMay 24, 2014 9:22 AM
souledge94 said: THe thing is why couldint he still check on sakura.I know he gave her away but that doesint mean he cant stop by and see how she is doing since I didint see anywhere stating other wise.This just proves that crap he was spewing about actually caring about giving them a chance is crap.I also have a gut feeling that even if he did know he former daughter was being raped by worms he wouldint give two dams since we see hes a terrible father with magic on the brain.Dam these kids got the short end of the stick.They didint have a good mom or pop. The answer is: Because Urobuchi needed him to be a villain. The in-story answer is harder to explain, besides simply accepting that he was an idiot to accept Zouken's deal. And honestly, I don't know why, it simply doesn't make sense. He is concerned about Sakura and what might happen to her, yet when he gives her away he stops worrying about her. What concerned parent would really do that? |
C-Core said: And honestly, I don't know why, it simply doesn't make sense. He is concerned about Sakura and what might happen to her, yet when he gives her away he stops worrying about her. What concerned parent would really do that? A father that is concerned about the future that she will give(to the family etc) instead of the future she will have. |
ssjokg said: C-Core said: And honestly, I don't know why, it simply doesn't make sense. He is concerned about Sakura and what might happen to her, yet when he gives her away he stops worrying about her. What concerned parent would really do that? A father that is concerned about the future that she will give(to the family etc) instead of the future she will have. While I did think this is partially true, this can't be the only reason, if he sees Sakura's and Rin's potential as a curse and regrets that, in his opinion, unlike him they cannot choose the path of the magus out of their own free will.* Honestly, I simply miss more Tokiomi POVs that could have given a more sufficient explanation. He couldn't seriously believe his family will prosper just because he made Sakura heir to a family that a long time ago sought Akasha. It's even more baffling that he didn't check how Sakura is treated even though Matou and Sakura are almost neighbors. If he was concerned about a future she might give then what really will happen should concern him as well. Edit: *(and thus also the choice to live a normal life). I interpreted that as him having deeper thoughts of concern than only the ones of a magus. But yeah... interpretations. |
CapsuleCoreMay 24, 2014 10:14 AM
souledge94 said: Just a side note Im guessing the reason sakura looks so different from her mom and pops is an artistic choice.I mean she has purple hair and different color eyes.I thought kids are suppose to get something from their parents. No, if you watch episode 1 again, you'll notice Sakura has dark brown/black hair and blue eyes. Her eye and hair color changing has to do with her body being trained and changed due to the worms. |
C-Core said: I hope there were as well .All this debate wouldnt even exist, since in the end we are fighting over interpretations based on the few things we know about him.ssjokg said: C-Core said: And honestly, I don't know why, it simply doesn't make sense. He is concerned about Sakura and what might happen to her, yet when he gives her away he stops worrying about her. What concerned parent would really do that? A father that is concerned about the future that she will give(to the family etc) instead of the future she will have. While I did think this is partially true, this can't be the only reason, if he sees Sakura's and Rin's potential as a curse and regrets that, in his opinion, unlike him they cannot choose the path of the magus out of their own free will. Honestly, I simply miss more Tokiomi POVs that could have given a more sufficient explanation. C-Core said: Is it bad that I find hilarious that Deen actually showed Sakura with her original hair in the old FSN.souledge94 said: Just a side note Im guessing the reason sakura looks so different from her mom and pops is an artistic choice.I mean she has purple hair and different color eyes.I thought kids are suppose to get something from their parents. No, if you watch episode 1 again, you'll notice Sakura has dark brown/black hair and blue eyes. Her eye and hair color changing has to do with her body being trained and changed due to the worms. |
ssjokgMay 24, 2014 11:32 AM
| THAT THAT WAS SO FUCKING EPIC Everything that I wished the 1st season was (though I still liked it), this season looks like it'll be. Holy crap, the action sequences were gorgeous. Players are finally dying. The dynamics and relationships between all of them are so intense omg and they're all in play right now I love the OP and forgot to mention I think the music on this show has been consistently great choices and atmospheric |
| Just where did Archer got that flying machine?! Well.. Tokiomi is such a coward in front of Archer. And he sees his daughters only as tool to reach origin.., he gave Sakura away only to raise his chances. He is someone who exploits life of others for his own gain, showing no respect to it and for that he deserves nothing than death. Even in his state Kariya is more humane than Tohsaka ever was and would be. And the thing that happened there openly on public, not to mention they let the people see it, that's one big hell of a shit. Toshaka had that region under his jurisdiction and to allow something like this.. Magic Association really won't be happy. Ryuunosuke death was surprise but one only has to ask why Kiritsugu didn't do that earlier. But his thinking is pretty self-centred. He fears to disease whole city by Caster's abominations but only because that would end War. On the other hand he is ok with using Excalibur with all its devastating power right in the middle of the city. Yeah, sure, that's the way of Justice. Reaching his goal no matter what casualties on the road... but is something acquired like that really worth the cost? |
| Just where did Archer get that aircraft? |
SanaeSnake said: Just where did Archer get that aircraft? Gate of Babylon. You know, that thing that also contains the wine cellar of the gods. |
SanaeSnake said: Just where did Archer get that aircraft? Search Vimana in google. |
| Hmmm yeah as much as I loved the OP/ED, the previous ones were better :D Amazing start! :D Also I hope Tokiomi dies painfully. |
| Simply beautiful. |
| "Let Justice Be Done!" My Theme Fight again, fight again for justice! |
| This was a really great episode, probably the best one yet. The OP isn't impressing at all though, and the ED isn't really bad though I probably still like the first one more. |
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| Lol Emiya was cold, calculating, and anticlimactic. |
| I prefer the old OP and ED. Not saying that the new ones are bad, just that the old ones were really good. |
| MAL: A community that thinks every anime is bad, but rates everything a 7/10. |
| The Lord has come! THE LORD HAS COOOOOOOOOOOOOOME! |
 ☩ Discord: the.path.to.pathos ☩ RateYourMusic ☩ last.fm |
| Beautiful op song,Nice Kalafina!!^^but I prepare the season 1 opening song,,how many times I repeat it but I can't memorize it,>.< |
| 5/5 Episode that gives a lot of action. How early is not bad, there is everything in the narrative, fighting, rivalry between Master, blood; there is plenty of choice. Very nice opening and ending. Drawings and animations are always top quality. |
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| Boom! Headshot was the greatest COOL! I would have liked it if he had gotten a more messy end, but I suppose Emiya knows his business. This beginning to the second season was awesome. I hope it'll continue this trend and have more actual battles, as opposed to the first season since I guess all exposition has been done. Wonder who will exit this stage next? On the matter of exits, after 5 minutes in the first season, Berserker reappearance by taking over a fighter plane, was one dynamic entry(or reentry in this case). Just one question. How is Caster able to survive in this world now that his Master his dead? Let me rephrase that, how is he able to keep that abomination spell in effect when it probably consumes high levels of mana, and he has no Master to draw it from? Since when the same thing happened to the Servant was left near death and only healed after it was helped by iron hands or something(my memory of FSN is very hazy) right? |
R2Jan 27, 2015 7:57 AM
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R2 said: |
| ^Ah! I see. Thanks for the clarification. |
|
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