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| @IcyGlacier I dont read the manga but when he used SSB and kaioken vs hit he said he (and vegeta) can control his ki perfectly after training with the gods and is now able to use kaioken while every SSJ form before drained ki to some amount so he could not use it. My understanding was that the "red god" form was actually stronger (He was fighting beerus on 70% after all, add more training with whis and kaioken and his instant transmission, he would be far stronger then him now. So blue is weaker) |
Comander-07Jun 11, 2017 12:08 PM
| "This emotion is mine alone. It is for Madoka alone." - Homura or how I would descripe Mahou Shoujo Madoka Magica. |
Comander-07 said: @IcyGlacier I dont read the manga but when he used SSB and kaioken vs hit he said he (and vegeta) can control his ki perfectly after training with the gods and is now able to use kaioken while every SSJ form before drained ki to some amount so he could not use it. My understanding was that the "red god" form was actually stronger (He was fighting beerus on 70% after all, add more training with whis and kaioken and his instant transmission, he would be far stronger then him now. So blue is weaker) That doesn't mean that ssjb didn't use lots of stamina, he meant another thing which lets him uses blue with kaioken. In the DBS manga chapter 22 it's explained that SSB Uses alot of energy/Stamina and they can't use it all the time. And it was also explained that super Saiyan God (red) doesn't use energy at all but it's weaker in power than ssjb. You should read ep 22 of the manga it's actually really good to to read. |
IcyGlacier said: Comander-07 said: @IcyGlacier I dont read the manga but when he used SSB and kaioken vs hit he said he (and vegeta) can control his ki perfectly after training with the gods and is now able to use kaioken while every SSJ form before drained ki to some amount so he could not use it. My understanding was that the "red god" form was actually stronger (He was fighting beerus on 70% after all, add more training with whis and kaioken and his instant transmission, he would be far stronger then him now. So blue is weaker) That doesn't mean that ssjb didn't use lots of stamina, he meant another thing which lets him uses blue with kaioken. In the DBS manga chapter 22 it's explained that SSB Uses alot of energy/Stamina and they can't use it all the time. And it was also explained that super Saiyan God (red) doesn't use energy at all but it's weaker in power than ssjb. You should read ep 22 of the manga it's actually really good to to read. The manga and anime aren't part of the same canon and the forms work differently. Super Saiyan Blue in the anime doesn't consume hardly any energy and is brought about by perfect Ki control. The Super Saiyan Blue form in the manga is heavily nerfed so that the original Super Saiyan God form still has a use. Hell Super Saiyan Blue Kaio-ken doesn't even exist in the manga, so your argument doesn't have much merit. |
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IcyGlacier said: You do have some decent arguments. However the spying had a much broader intent than to find out about frieza. If it was really worth anything then they would know who is who and take out the easy targets. Let's also not forget that 18 and krillin split to pick up 17. There were plenty of better options to make. Plus they were aware of goku's ssb-form since the exhibition matches, so regardless of whether they knew frieza's power, striking while goku was around was still foolish.robiu013 said: That I'm 17 joke is easily the best thing in Super so far. The Frieza drawing was pretty good too, but they played it out too much with Kid Trunks addressing it directly. Also good job of universe 4 figuring out they can disqualify the competition by making them incapable of gathering up 10 people, but going after the strongest fighters in universe 7. I mean there's the old guy, who can't even fly and a bald guy, who is anxious and afraid 90% of the time, but sure go after the people of the universe, who are on pair with their gods of destruction. Uhm, they said that they had a someone being revived to join u7 team so they decided to kill frieza before he could join the team, this is the main reason they went after him An They didn't know that frieza was that strong. And why go after the others when beerus and whis are with them? Makes no sense. |
| فريزا مخيف جدا |
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| Nothing really special happened in this episode. When Vegeta was defending Freezer before Trunks so that he don't find out about the tourney was funny especially when we saw what Vegeta thoughts really were about it :D Krillin trying to get into a conversation with 17 was also funny to see. I liked when Piccolo asked 17 if he got stronger and 17 respond with the same question and they shaked hands afterwards. So the assassins appeared and Freezer didn't hesitate any second to show his power. Hopefully this won't end up to badly. Goku and the others don't really have to much more time left before the tourney begins. |
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Rei366 said: Stark700 said: By DBS logic, every hour makes up a full episode. Didn't an episode a few weeks ago reduce the countdown of only thirty minutes? I wrote that mostly as a joke lol Time in anime rarely makes sense in logic. |
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| I'm so eager to see how the Goku gang is going to react when he comes back to Capsule Corp. holding hands with Frieza like they were the best buddies, especially Kuririn, like he wasn't the guy who once made him blow up in a zillion pieces. Those dynamics are going to be priceless.... |
| Picollo and 17 shaking hands was so great to see, such an amazing history those 2 have. Vegeta's expression when he had to say Frieza was a good guy lol, epic. I enjoyed the last couple minutes of the episode. That transformation looked epic. Only problem is, won't it drain Frieza's time or the Void area timeless? |
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| I always knew my local transltion of name freeza is the correct one KamiTube at it again |
Cross  AngeHey guys check my profile for current airing season anime recommendation (guaranteed best taste) |
Aiko_Hiroshi said: IcyGlacier said: That doesn't mean that ssjb didn't use lots of stamina, he meant another thing which lets him uses blue with kaioken. In the DBS manga chapter 22 it's explained that SSB Uses alot of energy/Stamina and they can't use it all the time. And it was also explained that super Saiyan God (red) doesn't use energy at all but it's weaker in power than ssjb. You should read ep 22 of the manga it's actually really good to to read. The manga and anime aren't part of the same canon and the forms work differently. Super Saiyan Blue in the anime doesn't consume hardly any energy and is brought about by perfect Ki control. The Super Saiyan Blue form in the manga is heavily nerfed so that the original Super Saiyan God form still has a use. Hell Super Saiyan Blue Kaio-ken doesn't even exist in the manga, so your argument doesn't have much merit. and here you casually saved me from wasting my time. Thank you sir! |
| "This emotion is mine alone. It is for Madoka alone." - Homura or how I would descripe Mahou Shoujo Madoka Magica. |
| Why do you guys continue to spell Frieza & Freezer? It's most probably a dub or sub oversight that got stuck in pop culture similar to M.Bison (Vega) It's "FREEZA" -The anime said so. |
| "Manga readers are annoying, all they do is complain or spoil the anime we discuss in an anime forum. They should really do their whining at manga forums. USERS ON MY IGNORED LIST: RayReynolds - SSL443 - Dr4kon - Nerdanimefan1992 - ToTheMountains - Fiveskies To add users to the Ignore list: (1) Go to Account settings (2) Click Forum tab and toggle down (3) Type or paste user name on entry box (4) Click Add and you're done. Problem solved, you'll never have to see someone trolling ever again because their post will be closed/collapsed. |
Comander-07 said: Aiko_Hiroshi said: The manga and anime aren't part of the same canon and the forms work differently. Super Saiyan Blue in the anime doesn't consume hardly any energy and is brought about by perfect Ki control. The Super Saiyan Blue form in the manga is heavily nerfed so that the original Super Saiyan God form still has a use. Hell Super Saiyan Blue Kaio-ken doesn't even exist in the manga, so your argument doesn't have much merit. and here you casually saved me from wasting my time. Thank you sir! No problem! The manga is still worth checking out since it does interesting things with the setting but you can't include it in the same canon as the anime, they're completely different stories at this point. |
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| I have to say that the interactions between Goku and Frieza are really good made. Frieza is truly his archenemy. 3/5 Transformation scene was cool. |
Taito10Jun 13, 2017 10:28 AM
SSJ4Life said: Comander-07 said: the blue form does not drain energy at all, that is the reason he can use kaioken. Aiko_Hiroshi said: The manga and anime aren't part of the same canon and the forms work differently. Super Saiyan Blue in the anime doesn't consume hardly any energy That's not what Goku said in the anime, episode 38, that's just your head-canon, guys. From a writer's perspective, why mentioned it? If that info was gonna be as different as the manga as other stuff are different, there was no need to make Goku talk about the SSB weakness. But, that's the thing, it's not that Toei was gonna change that rule in the anime, is just that they're incompetent. It was mentioned in both versions, manga & anime, but the difference was that Toyotaro respected the rule, he is still using that info for the Future Trunks arc. While on the other hand, Toei doesn't give a (d)uck, not only they put Goku talking about how SSB uses a lot of stamina to completely ignore it in the next episode, they add Kaio-Ken later on, on top of it, thus creating a contradiction avoided in the manga. Long live Toyotaro, the guy who tries to make sense out of DBS, that's a great challenge. Its not that simple. Remember in original Z when they reached "full" SSJ? That it would not drain any stamina anymore? Why do you think they dont walk around as SSJ all the time afterwards? Im pretty sure because it still does. The explanation that they gained Blue by training with the gods (or rather the angel) makes sense to me. So red would be the stronger version, but with the ritual its to unflexible and also goku and vegeta want to become strong without help. So it makes sense that blue is weaker. He indeed never said "not drain energy" afaik. But he said he has total control over his ki with imo is very close. |
| "This emotion is mine alone. It is for Madoka alone." - Homura or how I would descripe Mahou Shoujo Madoka Magica. |
SSJ4Life said: that last part is not inconsistency its just garbage. But I still like it more (or rather hate it less) then GT ._.Comander-07 said: So red would be the stronger version Wrong. Akira writes a "skeleton" script, one copy each, for Toei (anime) for Toyotaro (manga). Each, are allowed to make changes (which would mean this series is no as Akira's as many claim) but only Toyotaro goes directly to Akira before each chapter is released so he has the original author's blessings. That's why the manga has avoided the many (d)uck ups the anime has done. Which I can easily name a few, if you're interested. In the manga it's even more clear that SSB is superior to SSG, and it passed through Akira's check up, so, it's official. Comander-07 said: He indeed never said "not drain energy" afaik. But he said he has total control over his ki with imo is very close. Specifically, he said that SSB burns A LOT of stamina. Episode 38, look it up if you don't believe me. For the anime to make sense, the events should've been consistent with this info, but it's quite the contrary, SSB stamina not having visible weakness goes directly against this, and that's not even mentioning the Kaio-Ken on SSB. Toei just forgot about it because they don't have any passion for the series, they're just thinking about the money. It's why the series will still produce only inconsistencies, the most recent being the SS of universe 6. I skimmed over Ep 38 but I believe you mean 39, there he uses Kaioken and old supreme kai tells us the tale of the unbreakable swo.. no the "stamina drain" of a SS. My point is they are never perfectly right. Goku said SSJB has proper Ki control. My take is all SSJ forms put stress on your body and to some extend use up your energy. Kaioken just puts even more stress on your body so he never used it as a SS. But here is the difference. Blue is a god form. It does not. The end of the story. I dont even care what the difference in the manga is. This here is about the anime. The manga has a different section. I do think the explanation how they got blue is fine. Red needs a ritual which they dont want/can use. So they trained with whis. This anime has a lot of flaws, a lot. But kaioken + blue is fine |
| "This emotion is mine alone. It is for Madoka alone." - Homura or how I would descripe Mahou Shoujo Madoka Magica. |
| Bless this episode. I needed this. Fandom, come on with it. |
SSJ4Life said: How can something be the right version when its 2 different things. Thats like saying SSJ4 is stronger then blue because GT comes later in time. Its bullshit.Comander-07 said: I skimmed over Ep 38 but I believe you mean 39 Nope. Episode 38, trust me I've used this episode to debunk said matters in different threads already. Hit: "You forgot to transform." Goku: "Oh, that drains my stamina real bad, so I'll use it later." This scene goes exactly the same in anime as in the manga, meaning this scene comes directly from Akira Toriyama himself. Comander-07 said: This here is about the anime. The manga has a different section. I'm fully aware. I only mentioned the manga because that part of the story is on both versions, but only the manga got it right. Just because he said some random garbage does not mean its 100% true. Go watch ep 39. Because that is the important thing when we talk about the anime. Remember when they thought SSJ1 was the limit? Remember when goku said something about price money? Or other things? It was a lie. To end my contribution to this discussion Stamina =/= Ki (Energy) The end. |
| "This emotion is mine alone. It is for Madoka alone." - Homura or how I would descripe Mahou Shoujo Madoka Magica. |
elior1 said: The_Nut_Cracker said: yes they are small fries for frieza but i dont know about sidra. he might be strongerI really liked the17/krillin,17/18 ,17/piccolo interactions especially android 18's towards krillin as they stood in front of 17. So many great lines from her. " You don't have to force a conversation" " no,her name is Marron get it wrong again and I'll kill you" Lmao Goku is still the biggest moron for recruiting frieza onto universe 7 Frieza being a target for assassination by universe 4 feels like filler Sidra looks a throw away character from my point of view but I could be wrong xd |
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| Enjoyed the peacefulness before the big tourney. |
 Behold of my awesomeness~ controversial and/or sensitive topics likely devolve into the same repetitive, derogatory, abusive, and harassing comments can no longer be posted. But my feels. |
| Holy shit.... Frieza WTF so strong and cool |
SSJ4Life said: Comander-07 said: How can something be the right version when its 2 different things. Because those aren't 2 different things, it's exactly the same scene. You could only be right about that if the info delivered was used in 2 different ways, but it wasn't, the manga used the info, the anime just ignored it. SSB is used with a lot of respect in the manga the form is not only difficult to use, they keep working at it and we are witnesses of it's development. I had missed that from DBZ, the actual try to improve a SS form instead of just jumping from one form to another. Comander-07 said: Just because he said some random garbage does not mean its 100% true. #1) It's true because the series never talked about a lie, they do that when it's a lie. #2) It's true because it was in Toriyama's script, Toei just went out of their way to show something cool while throwing away the quality of the story. It only became "random garbage" because of it's inconsistency, adding to the awful writing of the anime. Comander-07 said: Remember when they thought SSJ1 was the limit? Irrelevant comparison, Goku didn't "thought" SSB was burning his stamina away, he wouldn't think it if it wasn't the case, that's nonsensical. Comander-07 said: Remember when goku said something about price money? Or other things? It was a lie. Of course it was a lie, the story let us know that since the beginning, they didn't with the SSB inconsistency though, so, another irrelevant comparison. You may have a point if the manga would be source material but its not. So yes they are 2 different things. If ssjb kaioken is a thing in the anime then its canon. Since this is not my adaption list but my anime list I dont care what the manga declares canon or not. This is about the anime. In the anime kaioken with blue god form is a thing. End of the story. I could also just declare the manga is not canon because it does not recognize the existence if kaoiken blue. |
| "This emotion is mine alone. It is for Madoka alone." - Homura or how I would descripe Mahou Shoujo Madoka Magica. |
| Freezer is here and is ready to kill all these assassins intergalactic!!!! kekeke |
| I'm not a big Dragonball fan but Frieza was hype as hell today |
| Goku eating. Goku tells them the truth. LMAO at Kuririn spitting out the drink. Quitela and Sidra. Trunks looking at Freeza. lol at Vegeta lying and his inner turmoil. Muten Roshi. Karin. Muten Roshi can't fly? Those people in the sky. Jinzoningen 17. 18. LMAO at 17 saying Maron because he forgot and 18 correcting him and telling him not to forget it again. lol at 17 saying he's 17. lol at the poachers waiting. lol at Piccolo going to see 17. Dat handshake. Piccolo a real one. lol at Muten Roshi's entrance. Freeza is here. Dat punch! Dat punch back. A dog. An army. Finger beam! Goku's face. Warming up desu yo! Dat light around the world. Golden Freeza. Dat ending. |
| If you see that my post is exactly 1 month old (or more) from when it was posted... Don't waste your time, especially when you want to reply with something petty & insignificant. Assume that I've moved on (because I have). |
| Frieza is still as badass as ever. |
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| You can really send a spy to another universe, have the spy return to report their findings, plot a character's assassination, hire an assassin, and send that assassin over to the other universe to kill them? I still can't get over how easy it is to just hop universes. That aside, Goku is really getting all his friends to pay for his mistakes, with Bulma literally paying money in this case. Lastly, the Kale and Caulifla situation just...I don't know. It just feels like a fan fiction scenario, or a ad lib plot I'd expect from a side story in Supersonic Warriors or something. It's an interesting what-if regarding an alternate universe Broly, but...I don't know. Maybe it was the explanation to easily go Super Saiyan that, after all these years, finally dispelled the full mystique of the transformation? Then again, that already started with Goten and Trunks from the Buu saga, so I'm not sure. This is just off for some reason. |
| has anyone discussed how Goten and Trunks are powered down sooo much that 17 is now stronger than them ???? |
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| I'm pretty sure Frieza will betray Goku and join other universe's side. |
| Golden freiza do be pog |
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| Alright, we're getting somewhere. Frieza is already out of control, and it seems like Goku may have made a mistake with this plan. What about team cohesion? The confrontation at the island between 17 and the others was intense too! |
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