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| I don't even know what kind of anime this is, everything is just a big chaos! Either way let's see what the last episode will offer us! |
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| Not sure I get it but it sure is compelling ( •᷄ὤ•᷅)？and we're returning to better animation so yaaaaay. I kinda think the suicide episode was just a random one-off/side story? I can forgive the show if it doesn't explain it because I really liked that episode. |
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AlexSadist-sama said: What the hell is going on, damnit. What exactly happened to this anime? It was awesome at beginning but now it sucks major ass |
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| it all went downhill after episode 4 |
| My brain hurts just like everyone's else! But i enjoyed it and starting step by step put together all parts of this weird and complicated story |
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| Now THIS episode has made up for the past few crappy episodes. This was a good one, and it was plot relevant, even though it seemed totally IRrelevant. I had a feeling that poor, young detective would end up losing it. What a shame. How dark, all the people who were "saved" are now getting screwed (not sure how a mini version Ushiyama's palm tree inside of his locker is bad for Yuichi, but he looked disturbed). The husband didn't look very surprised to see Maria. I'd had a feeling that she wasn't gone for good. Very sad. This episode was reeeeally dark and I LOVED iiiit! |
| "It's a tragic misunderstanding that could have been easily avoided if he just finished his sentence in time!" — Richard Watterson (The Amazing World of Gumball) |
| This has gotten really stupid at this point... Its been predictable if it was all an illusion. I am all for psychological anime, since my career is in the field of psychology, but this is just utter crap. Well might as well finish it, on to the next episode. 1/5 |
CejaraJan 30, 2016 4:24 PM
| Awesome episode. It takes a little investigation and consideration, but things really are making sense at this point. I think Tsukiko may have created Shounen Bat and projected him onto the populace. Shounen Bat is an after image of the individual who attacked her when she was in 6th grade. His popularity makes him stronger, just like that of the dog character (Moromi?). Everyone who has been attacked by Shounen Bat had a version of Morimo on them at the time of the attack. Remember the episode with the animation studio? No one was attacked until that guy showed up and gave them all Morimo dolls. Then they all suddenly got killed. The 3 people wanting to commit suicide each carried a large Moromi backpack throughout the episode. I could be way off on this, but I think Moromi is a signal of an impending attack/death. At the beginning of this episode, they said that imagination nurtures him and rumors make him grow. He's a manifestation of the collective subconscious of Japan's citizens. The more they think about him, the more they tell stories about him (like the gossiping women did a couple episodes back) the stronger he becomes. |
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on 
| Weell with this episode my theory is kinda proved but lets see the final ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ |
| *meme* |
| All I can hope for is that the resolution will be cut and dry so I can piece everything together. I really hope S.B. isn't just an illusion...that'd be kinda boring, seeing as the first few eps kept changing our theory but then everything after that pointed to S.B. being an illusion. |
| what's going on help |
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| I don't understand anything anymore. |
"At some point, I stopped hoping." |
| Aaaah. Yes, the classic Satoshi Kon mindfuck. I wouldn't have it any other way. |
| What is even going on? Such a disappointing second half... Srsly the synopsis and was looking promising and the first half was actually interesting. Then we got these two random episodes followed by this monster story. Was expecting something different. If I had knows this is going to end as regular monster story I probably wouldn't have watched it >.> Doesn't matter if there are supposed to be hidden messages or anything. Well, one more episode. Let's see what the conclusion will be if there even is going to be one. |
Aina-Chan said: 'Little Slugger' doesn't exist. I still think it's all in the peoples' heads. Delusional and wanting to escape from reality. >0< That's it, end of the story. |
| And still, Bill will live on. He will befriend the next inhabitants of the earth, beings of light who revere him as a god. And Bill will outlive them all... for millions and millions of years...exploring, learning, living, until the earth is swallowed beneath his feet. Until the sun is long since gone. Until time loses all meaning and the moment comes that he knows only the positions of the stars and sees them whether his eyes are closed or open. Until he forgets his name and the place where he'd once come from. He lives and he lives until all of the lights go out. |
Cejara said: This has gotten really stupid at this point... Its been predictable if it was all an illusion. I am all for psychological anime, since my career is in the field of psychology, but this is just utter crap. Well might as well finish it, on to the next episode. 1/5 A couple of episodes and the possibility of him being an illusion is highly considerable. |
| And still, Bill will live on. He will befriend the next inhabitants of the earth, beings of light who revere him as a god. And Bill will outlive them all... for millions and millions of years...exploring, learning, living, until the earth is swallowed beneath his feet. Until the sun is long since gone. Until time loses all meaning and the moment comes that he knows only the positions of the stars and sees them whether his eyes are closed or open. Until he forgets his name and the place where he'd once come from. He lives and he lives until all of the lights go out. |
| Oh right, this is what a plot episode looks like. Very important episode compared to the ones leading up to it, but we still don't know the details of Tsukiko's secret. |
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| So Maromi and Lil' Slugger are more or less the same in their nature and have source in Tsukiko's childhood's trauma. Maniwa fully lost his sanity. I loved the transition when he looked at the glass or something. He was wearing his normal clothes, while his reflection looked like this Holy Warrior. By the way, action sequences were really well in terms of choreography and animation, even though this anime is not about action. Ancient Master's last words were... well... powerful. ;p Now everyone seems to have the worst outcome of problems they wanted to avoid with Lil' Slugger's intervention. I feel bad for this scientist who had to face his wife second, and apparently main, personality named as Maria. :( |
| Last episode: "You're (Shounen Bat) just like Maromi! A convenient escape!" Me: Yeah, that's a pretty apt and ironic metaphor. This episode: Shounen Bat literally is Maromi. Me: ooohhhhhhkay |
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| Last episode: "You're (Shounen Bat) just like Maromi! A convenient escape!" Me: That's a pretty apt and ironic metaphor! This episode: Shounen Bat literally is Maromi. Me: ooooooookay |
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| I can't understand anymore what is real and what is not in this show, one more episode left... |
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| Shounen Bat being the manifestation of Tsukiko's traumatic childhood memories was pretty interesting. It's crazy how she has managed to accidentally drag everyone into this mess with just her imagination but it was the public who had given him that much power by spreading rumors and practically immortalizing him by making him the face of once intangible feelings like despair. Maromi was Tsukiko's coping mechanism that tried her hardest to shield her from her trauma but she's exactly the same as Shounen Bat in regards to being a means to take the easy way out since she served the purpose of helping her run away from her problems instead of facing them. I guess that Maromi was the face of hope that provided comfort to those who would rather not hear about the constant news of assaults and murders but the public's obsession and overdependence towards it corrupted her. Seeing the ex-detective, now full-time lunatic acting as the self-appointed holy warrior was an embarrassing and sorry sight. I have no idea on why and how the fatass' figures helped him find the answer to this mystery, why Maromi started disappearing from everywhere, and why everything's going wrong for Shounen Bat's past victims now though. I have a feeling that the last episode will probably leave me with more questions than give me the answers, oof. I could be wrong after just one episode and trying to think of a way to piece together my thoughts into writing made it all the more confusing for me but whatever~ |
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charlieman999 said: I can't understand anymore what is real and what is not in this show, one more episode left... I stopped caring for what is real or not but I hoped on this point (sub)plots were about to come together and make sense. A whole lot of sidestories and characters but this episode was just a big mess. |
| so basically - tsukiko had a crazy time in childhood because of her dog's death so she picked up a bat and started hurting random people in the neighborhood - the manifestation of her anger was shonen bat (like we see in her drawing) - then she lies about the assault from episode 1, she was stressed because of the new character - because she talked about shonen bat, cornered people seem to seek this type of comfort/release, they hurt themselves and blame it on shonen bat (paranoia/schizofrenia), some others like the anime studio guy hurt others, he was shonen bat when he smashed his colleagues etc - shonen bat does not exist, it's just a feeling, an ephemeral stuff, reminds me of Kamisu Reina where people that commited suicide blame it on a girl named Reina, but this girl was only in their minds, aka the manifestation of suicide - people woul start to blame shonen bat for their problems, they want an external enemy to the enemy that is inside them, think about Bruce Lee movies, where main character is fighting his inner demons'the enemy within, and like he said: “If there is a God, he is within. You don’t ask God to give you things, you depend on God for your inner theme.” “I wish neither to possess nor to be possessed. I no longer covet ‘paradise’. More important, I no longer fear ‘hell’. The medicine for my suffering I had within me from the very beginning but I did not take it. My ailment came from within myself, but I did not observe it, until this moment. Now I see that I will never find the light unless, like the candle, I am my own fuel, consuming myself.” - the detective's wife survived shonen bat because she believed in her husband, she didn't accept to lose to insanity/fear whatever negative feelings she would have, true she was kinda crazy but inside she was simple, that's why she wasn't "attacked" but her inner demons were fighting, she wanted release, she wanted an easy way out of this life - the detective killed himself - somehow some people can access other realms, like the dead realm or purgatory (imo), they are the old guy, the young detective and the kid that died in his cell, he was cornered/afraid etc, we see shonen bat, we see the blood, but that's only symbolism as I explained above about shonen bat I kinda don't know what the otaku guy's role is but we have one more episode, truly this anime is Kon's magnum opus, a mastepiece |
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| This is the right path |
| The saddest thing about Maniwa's descent the fantastical is that his Radar Man Holy Warrior Outfit is far less cool than his actual attire. Regardless, I find myself mostly commenting on obligation since I've left one for every episode so far, not really certain I can articulate my thoughts on this one without the last episode. In a lot of ways, this was one of my least favourites in awhile, I guess I prefer the more self-contained stories to the actually over-arcing narrative, though several of my favourite moments here were directly tied to Tsukiko's story. I guess it's more the Maniwa side that doesn't click with me. The Maromi and Shonen Bat connection has been obvious for awhile, especially since the last episode made that overt, but the missing pieces for me have to do with the Master's role and Maniwa's delusions leading him to the correct conclusions. Like, with the bunny girls and hacking that lead him to the truth. Stuff like that kept me pretty disengaged with the story. |
| Maniwa is in the fantasy world fighting Lil Slugger (who vanishes into thin air) and then it cuts to the static TV set. Kon is showing us that fantasy worlds (which can include television and thus Maromi, who was once an innocent sweet idea and is now mass marketed as a 'supposed balm for the soul'). Maromi represents fantasy/ideations/grandiosity. Maromi is also TV, video games, the internet, social media, shopping, addiction, obsession, the media, the 'latest trends.' etc. Living in these can make us lose not only our grips with reality but lose our lives just as much as real death. "Maromi is dangerous." We know how Mrs. Ikari faced Lil Slugger/Maromi. She was not afraid of death nor wanted to die. She wants to live. She also mentioned she lived a modest, simple life. She spent her time caring for her husband and finding joy in real life and real love, not materialism. This is how she defeated and avoided Lil Slugger / Maromi. Then Maniwa is in a room of figurines then plugged into an anime video game type scenario which is deeply tied into otaku culture and hikikomori: a way in which we can lose ourselves and lose a sense of living and reality. We learn that Tsukiko created Maromi to cope with trauma as we often turn to Maromi for comfort or distraction. It's also interesting how it cut to the homeless woman (who has nothing) and made eye contact with Tsukiko. When Maniwa calls Tsukiko and says "you don't have to suffer alone anymore." This is huge. Just as Mrs. Ikari leads a life of love, Tsukiko is offered REAL love/support, as opposed to the imaginary comfort of Maromi. In turn, Maromi freaks out and Lil Slugger comes. Facing the real world would mean abandoning Maromi and facing traumas, fears (fear of death/ideations of death), and pain. This is much too painful for Tsukiko so she runs off with Maromi. Maniwa is there to stop Lil Slugger because he's there to help Tsukiko face reality and offer support. However, he's lost some of himself in the process, thus his skewed reality. Mrs. Ikari's death and her asking for Mr. Ikari pretty much confirms, to me, that Mr. Ikari is dead via Maromi/Shonen bat. |
| Well I know for sure now what I don't like about this show, and this episode specifically. One is the animation quality drop. Like it drops so hard sometimes, it's almost unbearable for me, knowing most of Kon's works look like a damn painting. This really is just painful. There are a few other things. But for this episode specifically, the montage of people getting into their troubles again, after their so-called "salvation" from shounen bat, as well as the wife not being able to find her husband who's drowned in his escapist delusions, just feels too ham-fisted. It's a shame coz at its best, the show has what is perhaps moments of Satoshi Kon's greatest artistic accomplishment. But it also has a lot of moments that don't fare well with his other works. Still, I love how absolutely, insanely unconventional and just generally how far the narrative would take us to (much, much more so than anything else he did). I actually love how un-obvious Kon presents his idea in a seemingly totally incoherent and unrelated fashion. It's charming to me because it works, though not for obvious reasons. Nurularifin said: this story feels too real yet too unrealistic at the same time... i haven't experienced such an art-house vibe for a long time Well surreal realism, or just the mix of whimsicality and reality isn't very uncommon. But Satoshi Kon's brand of surreal realism is simply irresistible. It's probably among the most imaginative of directors (animated or otherwise), both darkly humorous and subliminally terrifying. It's just his weirdness and genius coming into play, basically. |
| . . . |
| The shonen bat is just the urge to escape from reality. A lot of people face it. But Tsukiko Sagi was the one who gave a shape or a form to it.She drew the picture and explained the characteristics of it and since she was popular the news channels covered it and people thought of it the same way.She anthropomorphized the urge to escape reality bcoz she had encountered a violent assault or parental abuse in her childhood. |
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| What the hack is going on ? |
| Oh finally, thank god. The series finally continues from where it left off. It's a pity that they'd have to wrap everything up in 2 - 3 episodes but oh well. They really could have just made this one long film or a two part film series. If it weren't for the fillers, this would have truly been a great fucking show. Well, Maromi and Shounen Bat being the same thing sure does make things interesting. I've always had a weird feeling about Maromi. Well next ep is the last one. |
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| "Shonen-Batto" is actually a pun. There's a word in Japanese "Shounen Ba (正念場)" that roughly translates to something like a tough moment in your life, a critical moment. Satoshi Kon was a genius. |
| Mada mada dane |
| My takeaway: Maromi and Shounen Bat are both avatars of escapism, on opposite sides of the coin. Maromi is the blissful denial of reality - losing yourself in distraction - but the bliss is ephemeral; you can only run from what's in front of you for so long - enter Shounen Bat - bargaining, wishful thinking, desperation - your wake-up call to the pain you refuse to realize. Hence, the bodies encircling Maromi in the outro - the ephemeral relief from cold reality only cornered them for permanent captivity to it. |
| That news station desperately needs to to get a new mic lmao Also I'm sorry what is happening? Did the detective just completely lose it? How is he getting around like that? He went from the old guy's hospital room to the roof in a manner of seconds. And apparently the dolls are alive and they somehow helped him, and that guy is making figures of all the characters...? And now Maromi has disappeared everywhere? I think I might actually be done with this show... lol Like I actually don't care how this ends now. Some final thoughts though, Shonen Bat was never real. From what it looks like they're probably some ghost or maybe an urge to end your own life. But that doesn't make a whole ton of sense. And Tsukiko made them up from the start to get out of the corner she felt trapped in, but then suddenly everyone started to see them, I'm guessing because Tsukiko started the rumor, but then it spread to everyone in the city. I feel like all the murders happening are people just assuming it's Shonen Bat or something though, like it's not actually them, it's all because of that rumor. Maybe like mass hysteria or something? And they're most likely some kind of childhood trauma that Tsukiko had, which has now turned into Shonen Bat, and has spread to everyone Idk, but I can't help but feel like this is not getting explained in the last episode. I'm not even sure if I'll even bother with the last one. I've lost like all motivation to keep watching. This went from me bingewatching the first like 7 episodes, and giving it an immediate 8, to now forcing myself to keep going, and giving this show like a 4 or maybe a 5... Edit: I agree with a lot of people here. I think I would've much preferred if this show didn't go supernatural. It had such an interesting first half. That's why I was so invested and eager to keep going. But now? I just want to watching something else... |
AlkimiaAug 6, 2024 8:05 AM
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| Maniwa has gotten a bit insane. The Shonen Bat thing is older than it seemed. I wonder what originally caused it. Was it something around her dog? Maromi and Shonen Bat are the same after all. |
| Looks like they're gearing for a grand reveal. What I pieced together is that Tsukiko's attacker 10 years ago is probably the person behind all of this perhaps. I could be very wrong though. |
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| this anime is genius... |
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