ashfrliebert said: We all know that men who play sports don't develop any muscle ever. And swimmers certainly don't remove articles of clothing. Nope. Also all athletes are elementary school children. Only real sports are played by 9 year olds.One of those anime has hot male characters and one doesn't. Everyone agrees with you Nigami, but that doesn't make it yaoi. |
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| Like for real if you get upset because an anime about guys swimming features guys who swim, I think you might want to make an appointment with a psychiatrist or something to get some unchecked issues resolved. |
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zeus81 said: Lestat- said: Nope. 50% of WSJ readers are girls and you know how Jump works, people vote for their favorites series to keep them being published and unfortunately 1 female vote = 1 male vote, that's why despite its "shonen" name it still contains some entries mainly targeted to female audience. Kuroko no Basket is one of them, and all the coating that make these manga/anime more attractive to girls is what we call 'gay', take it as a shortcut.Believe it or not, but most sports anime are categorized as shounen and seinen, meaning they are mostly targeted at a male audience. Their manga are likely even to be featured in the widely acclaimed Weekly Shōnen Jump, which is again, primarily targeted at young men and men in general. random src if you want more details on genders% Lestat- said: It's not about nudity it's all the rest, nobody will say that a show like Hajime no Ippo, with a full male cast shirtless most of the time, is gay because the drawing style is not cute at all, it's more manly, and the characters have interest in girls/have girlfriends, except for Miyata (who is probably gay).I have not yet come across a woman who was driven so entirely out of her comfort zone by witnessing other unclothed women So attractive male=gay? A character is gay unless he states he wants a girlfriend in every episode? Ok then. |
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Thebigofan said: Some people who write anime probably believe that. Otherwise there wouldn't be so many "male friend character who's only trait is he's a pervert and openly expresses his desire for sex" characters. Like, male friends are not allowed unless they are explicitly and ridiculously outspokenly heterosexual.So attractive male=gay? A character is gay unless he states he wants a girlfriend in every episode? Ok then. |
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| I think many people mix the meaning of 'gay' as in 'homosexual' with 'gay' as in 'unmasculine'. Like if someone asked a guy "do you need a hug?" and they answered "no that's gay" then it's pretty obvious that they're not talking about sexual orientation but about not wanting to seem sensitive and demasculinized. Imo none of the sports series mentioned in this thread fit to the former definition of 'gay', but some do fit the latter definition. Like in Free!, there's a lot of heart-to-heart talk and emotional scenes which might seem alien and unrelatable to an average male viewer. Or, shortly put, they'd seem 'gay'. |
mimiiria said: I think many people mix the meaning of 'gay' as in 'homosexual' with 'gay' as in 'unmasculine'. Like if someone asked a guy "do you need a hug?" and they answered "no that's gay" then it's pretty obvious that they're not talking about sexual orientation but about not wanting to seem sensitive and demasculinized. Imo none of the sports series mentioned in this thread fit to the former definition of 'gay', but some do fit the latter definition. Like in Free!, there's a lot of heart-to-heart talk and emotional scenes which might seem alien and unrelatable to an average male viewer. Or, shortly put, they'd seem 'gay'. But that's just using the term wrongly tbh. Not my/our fault if people use the term to express something that it doesn't really mean. Show me a dictionary (no, urban dictionary doesn't count) that defines 'unmasculine' as one of the meanings of 'gay'. I couldn't find one. At best it's a derogatory, sterotyping, demaning slang use of the term, intended to insult gay people by denying them any masculinity (in reality there are a fair amount of masculine gay men just like there are feminine heterosexual men). In any case gay = unmasculine is a false equivalence and not at all part of what the term means by definition. If people lack the ability to put their feelings in proper words (like calling those shows too emotional, not macho enough, or simply complaining that the characters are too much in touch with their feelings for them to relate to them, for example) then it's their fault, not ours for 'misunderstanding' them when they use a term wrongly. |
| I probably regret this post by now. |
| One outs is called yaoi? No way lol 0_o |
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Rivershield said: About Yuri on Ice... THIS THING IS GAY. Common guys, its ballet on Ice, It should not even be called a sport, it is a fucking dance. All these gracious moves, the sensitivity of the techniques, there's no way this can be male stuff. "THERE'S NO WAY A STRAIGHT MALE CAN ----!!" lol you must not have seen much male figure skating have you? |
| With shows like Free!, I can understand why, because of how sexualized the men are, it's easy to jump to the conclusion that the fanservice is directed at the other characters rather than the audience. Another thing is whether or not the show tantalises the female audience, again like Free!, with the idea that the cast are indeed homosexual. Although I do agree with you, Lestat, that it is confusing when people call reverse harems in general yaoi. We don't go around saying shows like DxD are yuri because they are harems. Especially shows like Haikyuu, where there is little to no fanservice in my eyes, apart from the fact that there are sweaty schoolboys playing a sport together. Or perhaps, Lestat, it's just a way to degrade those shows, maybe in a similar fashion to the way we can describe certain situations as being "a bit gay", just because they make people perhaps sexually uncomfortable or do, indeed, have homoerotic undertones. |
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Yesterday, we had fujobait, today we have Yaoi, This is why the anime community's a sausage fest guys. |
| These days, every anime that has 2 or more males are instant FujoBait, doesn't matter what genre the anime is, Fujoshis will make it Yaoi. Heck, just take a look at Tales of Zestiria. Guess who's at the top of the pairings? It's not Sorey X Alisha, it's not Sorey X Rose. It's fucking Sorey x Mikleo. The problem isn't this anime is gay or not, it's the Fujoshis. Buy Yuri on Ice is definitely GAY. |
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GangsterCat said: Pullman said: the difference is i love yuri infestedI just realized that there are just as many all-female sports anime this season than all-male ones. Keijo, Long Riders and the ping pong one versus all out, yuri on ice and haikyuu. The male-cast-haters really have no justifiable reason to complain or call the sports genre yaoi-infested. The issue here is that people pretend this isn't the reason it's like YEEEAH i totally care about the QUALITIES of the series and judging from the qualities of the series HAIKYUU IS FUJOBAIT and then their like, well ya know some people just like ecchi man, why do you have to complain so much. JESUS CHRIST MAL |
| ゴロゴロゴロ ゴロゴロゴロ ゴロゴロゴロ ゴロゴロゴロ ゴゴゴゴゴゴ ゴゴゴゴゴゴ ゴゴゴゴゴゴ |
| some of the things being said here are just unbelievable. wow. |
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Rivershield said: I was not saying that characters should, by standard, have a crush on some girl, I was just pointing a natural behavior that is just common sense and the reason why many sports anime before had better representation of male behavior. You can't separate men from their interest in women, specially when you're dealing with high schoolers. The real problem though is that when you have a entire team of handsome dudes that goes on talking all the time how they care about their teammates and none of them has even talk about women then the least you will do is wonder about their masculinity. If you don't do that, maybe you're effeminate yourself. There's several big differences between Slum Dunk and any other classical sport manga to any modern sport manga, that goes from the character design to the way friendship and teamwork are portrayed. It is clear for someone who read both what is most appealing to men. About Yuri on Ice... THIS THING IS GAY. Common guys, its ballet on Ice, It should not even be called a sport, it is a fucking dance. All these gracious moves, the sensitivity of the techniques, there's no way this can be male stuff. Basically, you view men who don't do manly things to be effeminate men who are gay. There's nothing abnormal about a group of heterosexual guys not talking about girls at all. I have a group of friends I hang out with since the start of high school, and I don't recall a time where we talked about girls. We all are definitely straight, but we just aren't interested in talking about girls. We mainly talk about sports, tv shows and movies, otaku shit, and video games. I work with a bunch of male coworkers that I've known for years, and talking about girls is just not a thing we care about. The closest I'll hear about talking about girls would be family-related stuff like "My wife and I went to X and had a great time" and "My sister just got married". I don't know about you, but there are lots of things guys are more interested in talking about with other guys than relationships with girls. Your perception on figure skating is bizarre. You must think acrobatics is gay for men because that's what figure skating is. It's a sport that emphasizes heavily on acrobatics and performance arts. All these gracious moves you call them can be male stuff. A lot of men do enjoy watching figure skating too. |
Unyversu said: One outs is called yaoi? No way lol 0_o There are One Outs Yaoi fanarts and fanfiction out there so according to some people in this thread that makes the whole show intended to be gay and only enjoyed by girls. Don't question their logic, they think it's common sense! Although every crazy or delusional person thinks their worldview is common sense. |
| I probably regret this post by now. |
DoctorSexy said: that are and it objectifies men as sex objects But objectifying women is 100000% A-OK, 11/10 would fap again. |
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Shigure said: Basically, you view men who don't do manly things to be effeminate men who are gay. There's nothing abnormal about a group of heterosexual guys not talking about girls at all. I have a group of friends I hang out with since the start of high school, and I don't recall a time where we talked about girls. We all are definitely straight, but we just aren't interested in talking about girls. We mainly talk about sports, tv shows and movies, otaku shit, and video games. I work with a bunch of male coworkers that I've known for years, and talking about girls is just not a thing we care about. The closest I'll hear about talking about girls would be family-related stuff like "My wife and I went to X and had a great time" and "My sister just got married". I don't know about you, but there are lots of things guys are more interested in talking about with other guys than relationships with girls. Your perception on figure skating is bizarre. You must think acrobatics is gay for men because that's what figure skating is. It's a sport that emphasizes heavily on acrobatics and performance arts. All these gracious moves you call them can be male stuff. A lot of men do enjoy watching figure skating too. Thank you graciously for saying this. What this digital world perceives as purely 'manly' or 'masculine' has only come to light within the past few decades. When my parents were young (say, eighteen to twenty years old), it was almost odd if you did not participate in some style of dancing — both my folks participated heavily in ball-room dancing, and the diversity between men and women was greatly balanced. This was not perceived as 'gay' or 'feminine', no — it was applicable to both genders equally, and neither of them took shame in it, and the males did not perceive dancing as an activity or sport for wimps, like it is perceived now. When I was in high school, I had four guys in my class who did ball-room dancing. And guess what; all four were bullied for it, people called them and their dance 'gay', because smooth, graceful movements and healthy acrobatic athleticism are apparently 'only for women'. Similar are courtesy, manners and chivalry; I hear many men call these traits 'gay' or that they only apply to 'white knights' or wimps. Where does this come from? Well, I am aware that it is introduced through the media; music videos, idols and their nearly revolting 'charisma', but what goes on in someone's head to apply these so-called rules to themselves? Can one not apply the simplest of logic to understand that this creates an extreme drift between men and women (of course, we are not exactly equal, but let us at least speak of equal social rights here), that inspires objectification and sexualization, and also the phenomenon that men call everything that sways slightly from the modern norm 'gay'? To be quite honest, as a woman, I cannot find any masculinity in pumped up muscles, sexual provocation and typical aggressive rooster-like behaviour purely present to attract the opposite gender. It actually drives me far, far away; I laugh and shake my head at the ridiculous lengths some men go to attract women, thinking that all of us are brainless body-sacks blinded by muscle and roaring engines. Now, I find it a lot more naturally masculine if a man is polite and emotionally open, and can express himself without feeling pressured by a faulty, modern way of thinking about what a man can and cannot do to be 'masculine'. |
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kaimax said: These days, every anime that has 2 or more males are instant FujoBait, doesn't matter what genre the anime is, Fujoshis will make it Yaoi. Heck, just take a look at Tales of Zestiria. Guess who's at the top of the pairings? It's not Sorey X Alisha, it's not Sorey X Rose. It's fucking Sorey x Mikleo. The problem isn't this anime is gay or not, it's the Fujoshis. That used to be the case but these days the panicky males are even more vocal about these things than fujoshi. The reaction to fujoshi pairing non-gay males with each other used to be 'pls keep it to yourself, that's not what the show implies at all, just let me enjoy this' but nowadays a lot of males seem to react with 'yes, you fujoshi were right all along, gayness is everywhere and anime is doomed because of it'. They basically gave in to the fujoshi worldview and now see everything through the lens of a fujoshi, and they hate it but they can't turn it off because fuck knows why. Fujoshi aren't even part of that process at this point. It's just between those panicky males and the shows (or in many cases only the cover art of those shows since they don't even watch them). Even when you have reasonable fujoshis themselves telling them directly to their face that there is nothing gay in those shows itself and fujoshi only fantasize about it because they can, they will not accept the truth and insist on their inherent gayness and that nobody can watch those shows unless they are interested in gay fanservice and male-to-male relationships. Nevermind the thousands of people who do just that. Their delusions are stronger than facts. Just read back in this thread to see what I mean. Only shows without male characters are safe in their eyes, I guess. |
| I probably regret this post by now. |
| Thanks Mal, i have realized that Hajime no Ippo is one of the gayest anime around. |
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| Poor Takamura, heavy weight class but the feather weight class is manlier XD |
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Lestat- said: Shigure said: Basically, you view men who don't do manly things to be effeminate men who are gay. There's nothing abnormal about a group of heterosexual guys not talking about girls at all. I have a group of friends I hang out with since the start of high school, and I don't recall a time where we talked about girls. We all are definitely straight, but we just aren't interested in talking about girls. We mainly talk about sports, tv shows and movies, otaku shit, and video games. I work with a bunch of male coworkers that I've known for years, and talking about girls is just not a thing we care about. The closest I'll hear about talking about girls would be family-related stuff like "My wife and I went to X and had a great time" and "My sister just got married". I don't know about you, but there are lots of things guys are more interested in talking about with other guys than relationships with girls. Your perception on figure skating is bizarre. You must think acrobatics is gay for men because that's what figure skating is. It's a sport that emphasizes heavily on acrobatics and performance arts. All these gracious moves you call them can be male stuff. A lot of men do enjoy watching figure skating too. Thank you graciously for saying this. What this digital world perceives as purely 'manly' or 'masculine' has only come to light within the past few decades. When my parents were young (say, eighteen to twenty years old), it was almost odd if you did not participate in some style of dancing — both my folks participated heavily in ball-room dancing, and the diversity between men and women was greatly balanced. This was not perceived as 'gay' or 'feminine', no — it was applicable to both genders equally, and neither of them took shame in it, and the males did not perceive dancing as an activity or sport for wimps, like it is perceived now. When I was in high school, I had four guys in my class who did ball-room dancing. And guess what; all four were bullied for it, people called them and their dance 'gay', because smooth, graceful movements and healthy acrobatic athleticism are apparently 'only for women'. Similar are courtesy, manners and chivalry; I hear many men call these traits 'gay' or that they only apply to 'white knights' or wimps. Where does this come from? Well, I am aware that it is introduced through the media; music videos, idols and their nearly revolting 'charisma', but what goes on in someone's head to apply these so-called rules to themselves? Can one not apply the simplest of logic to understand that this creates an extreme drift between men and women (of course, we are not exactly equal, but let us at least speak of equal social rights here), that inspires objectification and sexualization, and also the phenomenon that men call everything that sways slightly from the modern norm 'gay'? To be quite honest, as a woman, I cannot find any masculinity in pumped up muscles, sexual provocation and typical aggressive rooster-like behaviour purely present to attract the opposite gender. It actually drives me far, far away; I laugh and shake my head at the ridiculous lengths some men go to attract women, thinking that all of us are brainless body-sacks blinded by muscle and roaring engines. Now, I find it a lot more naturally masculine if a man is polite and emotionally open, and can express himself without feeling pressured by a faulty, modern way of thinking about what a man can and cannot do to be 'masculine'. Masculinity and sexuality are different. You can be masculine and do anything. You can be masculine and do interpretive dance. It's how you carry yourself. If you never show interest in the other gender, your sexuality however is questionable. Not briinging up the other gender at all to focus completely on the sport or whatever then does make you pretty gay. It happens in every serious anime by the way. Even psycho-pass has slight romantic tension. The only characters w/o that are latched on to by the fujoshis because the lack of it is fair game to them. So yeah... all male sports anime like Free! and Yuri On Ice are hella gay and they're not trying to hide it. |
DoctorSexy said: Kuromii said: But objectifying women is 100000% OK. If it balances all the objection that men get Then yes Are you blind to the hundreds upon hundreds of anime that objectify women or are you just trying really hard to not be proven wrong? There's probably less than 20 anime out there that objectifies men and yet almost every single anime made objectifies women. |
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| Okay, I'd like to state first of all that I myself am skeptical about the supposed "gayness" of many of these sports anime. It's not the shows themselves I would have a problem with, then, but the fanbases themselves (whether they're fujoshi or fujoshi haters, I would find it annoying). This annoyance would also be true for alleged yuri-bait shows, btw, not just alleged yaoi-bait shows. I do think certain shots can be uncomfortable depending on the context-- having a personal or teasing conversation and having a character lean in with a lot of detail added to their lips/breath/etc. could be impling sexuality whether or not the characters are actually gay, and as such I probably wouldn't care for them. Beyond that, there's very little that would bother me. Speaking as a straight man who finds homosexuality repulsive, I have no inherent issue making light sexual jokes with others provided that I'm comfortable enough around them: e.g. smacking a guy's butt or jokingly offering a striptease, something fujos and fujo haters would likely take as definitive proof as gayness when it simply isn't. I don't believe public nudity is ever acceptable, although I wouldn't assume someone is homosexual because of group bathing alone. Lack of respect for one's genitals and what one's eyes consume is distinct from homosexuality. I wouldn't shower with other men and I know women who feel likewise about bathing with women. Nudity is indecent and should only be intentionally witnessed by one's spouse, parents (while you're very young), and other close family members/doctors/caretakers if there's a potential medical problem with said areas or a non-capability to take care of one's self. Still, as long as I don't have to explicitly see the sexual organs I would be unlikely to complain about men or women bathing together in fiction, much less assume they are homosexual for doing so. Being close friends with and having close body contact with the same sex does not make you homosexual. |
TripleSRankOct 10, 2016 7:21 PM
Unyversu said: One outs is called yaoi? No way lol 0_o Sports anime in general. If there are a large concentration of males in an anime and they aren't tearing each other guts out it's yaoi. |
| ゴロゴロゴロ ゴロゴロゴロ ゴロゴロゴロ ゴロゴロゴロ ゴゴゴゴゴゴ ゴゴゴゴゴゴ ゴゴゴゴゴゴ |
DoctorSexy said: Not even a thousand. They are barely 800 hundred even counting multiple times shows that are in multiple genres.Kuromii said: Are you blind to the hundreds upon hundreds of anime that objectify. Are you blind to the thousands of shows that objectify men Insert any shoujo, yaoi, Josei, shoujo, reverse harem here |
zalOct 13, 2016 12:04 PM
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DoctorSexy said: Kuromii said: Are you blind to the hundreds upon hundreds of anime that objectify. Are you blind to the thousands of shows that objectify men Insert any shoujo, yaoi, Josei, shoujo, reverse harem here You need to re-learn what objectifying means, my love. |
| |
| Sports manga and anime tend to draw a lot of the BL crowd (Kuroko no Basugay and Free! especially), which makes many people write off the genre as yaoi. It's most certainly yaoi-bait. |
| Honk Honk |
waifuEqualslaifu said: Sports manga and anime tend to draw a lot of the BL crowd (Kuroko no Basugay and Free! especially), which makes many people write off the genre as yaoi. It's most certainly yaoi-bait. Oh, there are people who ship Reinhard von Lohengramm and Siegfried Kircheis, this must make Ginga Eiyuu Densetsu an absolute fujoshi-bait and yaoi-bait anime! If you start looking at how the crowd responds to it with fan-art, fan-fiction and whatnot, you can say this for every anime in the game. It's just not how applying a genre to an anime works. |
» "Mercy is for losers..." « ⍏⍏⍏⍏⍏ inspector @ MAL's anime watching challenge |
| I do not really think of KNB and Haikyuu as yaoi, but I think, the reason why some people think of sports anime with male characters as yaoi, is because of how some scenes were shown. Example: Male Character 1 touches MC 2's head, then they will show MC 1 looking so gentle and full of love (Sometimes he even look erotic) and then there's that shoujo vibe with the animation - the lighting, the angle..that flowery kind of scenario that you will see in shoujo anime. So it's kind of like "interpret it the way you want" - but they are never ever going to admit that they are in love with each other, there will be no confession or anything, so yeah..sometimes it's just for fan service for those who like that kind of scenes. Unlike this kind of scenes where...it's almost impossible to give it a double meaning. Although some people still ship Sakuragi with Rukawa, male audiences don't see their scenes are "yaoi or gay" because it's oozing with manliness..but Yuri on Ice is a bit hard to deny though. |
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| just look at all the all-male sports that came from before 2011 and you will as a male feel safe |
| Sonic X is basically an isekai |
| All-out is certainly homoerotic as all hell. Its not just about being flamboyant, because JoJo's bizarre adventures is the most flamboyant show out there, yet also some how the most manly. Its about overall atmosphere and what the show chooses to emphasize. A lot of the characters have overly feminine features for no real reason as well as being hilariously muscular at the same time. Then the constant male blushing.... the comradery goes to far with many characters. I play sports. Been playing team sports since i was 8. I understand team dynamics. It's not homoerotic... And my problem is not about it being gay, i'd rather some of the dudes on the team just kiss and get it over with instead of having the entire team be awkwardly gay. We still havent seen any rugby match worth watching, i want to get to that. |
ComboSmoothNov 23, 2016 8:21 AM
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Lestat- said: With this season's newly adapted All Out!! and Yuri!!! on Ice (plus yet another season of Haikyuu!), the male audience of anime has yet again risen in to an uproar on sports anime; the largest portion of the male audience believes these titles are shounen ai, or even pushing it as far as calling them yaoi. Why? I do not know. They are not — I have watched Kuroko no Basket, One Outs, Free!, Prince of Stride and Yowamushi Pedal, and none of these series show any indication of homosexual encounters or romance between male characters. Believe it or not, but most sports anime are categorized as shounen and seinen, meaning they are mostly targeted at a male audience. Their manga are likely even to be featured in the widely acclaimed Weekly Shōnen Jump, which is again, primarily targeted at young men and men in general. The mindset of a lot of young males on this subject just feels like a result of this twisted view on homosexuality. Looking at a group of men entertaining themselves through friendship and sports, does not make one homosexual. When you happen to look at a swimming team and the men happen to only wear slim trunks —as is, well; necessary in swimming sports—, does this make you homosexual? No, it does not. Now, I cannot speak for the male sex, but I find it disturbing how little tolerance the male gender seems to have toward viewing their own sex. Seeing a topless male is suddenly 'gay', and any group of men who are friendly with one another must all be 'gay'. I have never received a clear answer on this as I can only speculate about the prudish view on a same-sex perspective of heterosexual men, but why is it so problematic for you Martians to either witness another pleasant-looking man, or to be present in the same environment as a handsome —I feel I have to mention appearance, seeing as this feels like something that either intimidates men or urges them to think of someone as 'gay'— man? I have even heard of young men on actual sports teams either showering with their boxers on, or refusing to shower at all. As a woman, I can logically (well — as logical as this can get) come to three conclusions; 1. You are afraid that other men in the changing room are homosexual, and they develop feelings of lust or romance to you if they witness your naked self - 2. You are afraid that witnessing other naked men might inspire homosexual feelings within you - 3. You are suffering from some sort of distorted body image of yourself and fear that others will laugh at your naked self. Now, I have strayed from my own initial point, as in none of the anime I mentioned earlier feature any unclothed men in an inappropriate setting (Yuri!!! on Ice's pilot did show a shot of a character rising from a bath, but this was at an onsen — meaning the setting calls for a culturally appropriate usage of nudity), but looking deeper in to the subject, I feel like there are a lot more underlying developments that causes a lot of men to think this way. Men and women, please share your thoughts — any are welcome. Truth. While I agree that there's many fangirls that like sports anime, in the end most of them are all adapted from shonen magazine. Their main target is (straight) teenage boys. Most guys in sports anime (KuroBasu, Haikyuu, etc) keep talking how they want a girlfriend or ranting how cute female manager is etc etc etc. That's why I don't get why straight men keep bashing Kurobasu or Haikyuu with "It's so gay" or "It's aimed at fujoshi" considering canon gay/bi men in an actual sports anime is almost nonexistent. So the next time some dude said "I don't want to watch this show. It's so gay!" it better be really gay like Yuri on Ice, not 'straight' man that has a close friendship other male character and BABOOM! He date a woman at the end of series. |
| The 2016 Thread of the year is back! .... I stand behind my comments. I'm not watching any gay anime....sorry folks. |
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