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Meh, it was ok... I guess... This art style reminds me of aku no hano which was shit/awful!! imo. I'm not even interested in ping pong. The only reason I'm watching this is because everyone is saying it's really good. I'll give this series a few more episode to decide wheahter to drop it or not.
We will all get used to the animation. The animation makes the anime TOTALLY unique in our minds, so I like how it's so different. THE ED IS SO GREAT! And I definitely see the similarities to Kaiba, another work my the same director (haven't seen tatami galaxy though..)
THIS IS THE HOLY GRAIL, The animation looks bad......THAT THEY'RE GOOD But seriously..I can't ignore this one just because the animation is not towards my liking. The story itself could be great!
I hope I can finish this one easily but I think this will be watchable till a limit imo. I think this is still watchable as compared to Aku no Hana's standards.
That OP was crazy, for some reason..I liked it. or maybe the only good thing in this anime? XD
Peco and Smile are actually quite BA in themselves with their competition of skills. I'm liking these two characters.
I'm surprised but the OSTs are good too.
As for the rest..I didn't even bothered paying attention to the Chinese guy Wenge...I literally fell asleep during this part, hopefully they focus more on Uchiyama's role and the Peco guy.
Definitely got the Tekkonkinkreet vibe in this one but I think the animation is a little bit rougher compared to it but it is still watchable nonetheless. I came in initially just to see what was the big deal about the artstyle and was surprised that I actually finished the entire episode. I might have preferred to watch something like this in movie since I don't know if I can handle a whole season of this artstyle but it is good so far.
“A trip is the most fun before one sets out on it. With dogs, the bark and not the bite is more frightening and women are almost always prettier when they are shrouded in mystery. I can never be as pretty as you imagine and I would never do something like that to you. Would it not be better to imagine?” -Holo the Wise Wolf
If people really think this looks like Aku no Hana they need to get glasses. The problem with Aku no Hana is that it was a specific type of art style known as roto-scoping done poorly so it looked incredibly awkward. This doesn't use any type of rotoscoping that I can detect, but rather just has a more superflat kind of art style than you're average anime which tend to use the traditional big eye small mouth bishonen/bishoujo art style.
Master Yuasa strikes again! I can easily see this being the best show this season.
And lol @ people comparing Yuasa's animation to Aku no Hana's. These people need some eye surgery asap.
Seriously, this is great.
Starting from artwork, I am a lover of this type of art, and this is very well rended.
The characters are good, I like the glassed one, really.
I wasn't sure when I started watching it, but I'm sure I'll continue watching it!
Nice opening and ending, unique and appealing visuals (though I can see why it's controversal), interesting and promising characters (specially China guy), motherfucking table-tennis etc etc.
Overall better than expected. Looking forward to more.
I didn't even bother to watch this crap. The anime is full of ugly looking men with a shitty art. Where are the beautiful girls that we usually see in anime ? I feel like vomiting by looking at these ugly characters. So, this going to be very hard for me to watch.
THe story about Ping Pong ? meh Thats less reason for me to watch. I'm not fan of sport anime, and this season we have already two sports anime that are miles better, Baby Steps and Haikyuu!!
Even without watching it, I can say this is probably the worst anime in this season
the guys are really speaking Chines, not some katakana pronounsations
the art style really standout if compared to most animes, the story itself I guess will be more slice of life type about Smile, and incidentally ping pong is one of my favourite sports :)
Funny show. Not only that but I like the characters (Smile, the arrogant kid who got owned, the Chinese champ who did the owning, the coach with a bad temper etc) so far.
The art style fits perfectly (doesn't hurt my eyes the way just about everything sHAFT animates does), as does the music.
Don't forget that you are watching animation. That the show doesn't stick to the usual art style that is used normally doesn't make it ugly. It just make it different and in this case, pretty original.
Personally... I loved the colors used in this chapter. The vibrancy makes it look fresh and gives a light atmosphere to the show. I love how natural the dialogue is.
My favourite scenes was when they were in the rooftop and they introduced the name of the chapter and the whole Chinese dude and Peco match!
The ending is pretty both in visuals and music. Let's wait for the next chapter.
A lot of the responses here about the "ugly" artstyle are exactly why I helped create this panel to discuss Sakuga and Japans unique animators. Me and a few friends of mine did this at ACEN a few years back, check it out, you will learn something! - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LLNHSrJoqFM
The art is amazing, the animation is fluid and I love the fact that they got actual Chinese voice actors to play the Chinese characters. No bullshit sports shounen stuff here, this is exactly what I wanted.
I decided to try it out on whim because I was in "sports mood"
Seriously, I'm really hung on art so I thought it would bother me very much but to me pleasant surprise I didn't even notice it.
Story hooked me on and I was immersed in this anime for 24 minutes.
Without hesitation, I'm gonna continue.
I pity everyone who misses this awesome anime just because of "unusual" at.
neilworms said: A lot of the responses here about the "ugly" artstyle are exactly why I helped create this panel to discuss Sakuga and Japans unique animators. Me and a few friends of mine did this at ACEN a few years back, check it out, you will learn something! - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LLNHSrJoqFM
You guys made that? Awesome I rewatch those videos from time to time. I'm learning to become an animator myself so it's nice to see the Japanese side of things, because we don't really get taught about that in school at all.
But yeah it was a pretty great episode, I was already pretty stoked because of Masaaki Yuasa, but this exeeded expectations.
My boy Masaaki's at it again. I can't imagine I'll like this show as much as some of his other stuff.
It'll definitely be worth watching though. This episode had cool music and whatever.
When I first saw Ping Pong on the anime list, I thought "lol this looks dumb. but i'll check it out because my friend told me -not- to. i will rebel against her and watch it anyway."
Then I started watching the trailers and thought "WOAH??? THIS LOOKS REALLY COOL??? WHAT??"
Now that I've seen the first episode multiple times... (and read the manga in one go, but we're talking about the anime so I won't go into that)
I LOVE IT. WOW. Okay, the character designs, I understand, aren't exactly "pretty" but I personally like them. The backgrounds are BEAUTIFUL. They're often drawn with wide angle lens, which I find very fitting with the character design.
And yo. I love the animation in this. It makes me very happy. There weren't any obvious "we're putting a still frame and close up of one character's face here for a long time because we're lazy/no budget" things going on (lol Bleach). The close ups were usually used to show emotion/expression. Or for narrative purposes.
Yes, even that scene with just the clouds and wind blowing had a purpose in the narrative. If it weren't there, the wenge and coach analyzing ping pong through sound scene wouldn't have been as effective or cool.
Also. MOVING JAWS. Whenever anime (or any animation) has MOVING JAWS I'm happy. Haha. This is what happens you watch a lot of low budget children's anime where mouths just flap without the jaw moving. You get excited whenever you see MOVING JAWS. I also liked how Smile's shoulder moved while he was playing his game on the train (the ride back at the end. It wasn't animated on the ride to visit Wenge's school)
And like many people, I absolutely loved Wenge. haha. His anger and absolute frustration at his situation. I felt it. His facial expressions were great. It was so satisfying seeing Peco get creamed.
Peco's annoying, but I like him. His voice when he's mocking people is so perfectly irritating. haha.
And SMILE. YES. I have a weak spot for main characters like Smile. I won't delve too much into his character since not much is revealed in the first ep, but yeah. I love Smile.
Anyway, people seem to be confusing art style and animation? Or maybe they just really think the animation is bad (I think it's rather good for an anime tv series):
Animation =/= art style. some things can have crappy animation yet still be pretty. Like UtaPri. I love the art style, but the animation looks really lazy. Also, Bleach. I like the art in it, but it has even lazier animation than UtaPri. Maybe even lazier than Pokemon. It's like 5 minutes of one character's face because they're too lazy to draw the rest of the body. The face is hardly even animated. Then they fight for 5 seconds (10 if we're lucky) and it's back to a stare off and a close up of someone else's face. Nurarihyon no Mago did this too (esp in the first season. I was so disappointed because it was my favorite manga).
Not an anime, but a great example: Winx Club. Animation wasn't so good to begin with, and then it just became terrible in later seasons. Absolutely horrid. But hey, pretty fairies.
And then there are things that are "ugly" but have good animation. I'm gonna say Ping Pong is one of them (I don't think it's ugly though). I've already explained what I liked about the animation. Anyway, nothing ever looked awkward to me other than those few mob/crowd animation scenes with the background characters repeating the same motions over and over again.
Since I can't really think of any other anime that would be "ugly" with good animation, I'll move to western cartoons. I'm gonna get punched for this, but I'll mention it anyway: Spongebob. I think it's really ugly, but the animation is good (for a tv series). Great key poses.
Of course, whether an art style is pretty or ugly is all opinion. But good animation vs bad animation? Still an opinion, but more objective. There's a criteria. Are the characters and objects weighted? Do they move believably (not realistically, but believably)? Is the timing good? Is there overlap? How are the key poses? Are the silhouettes readable? Things like that.
...I think I derailed a bit (or a lot) with the whole animation thing.
But yo! Ping Pong is great! The series intriguing. I'm a sucker for sports anime and manga. Or competitions in general. Although my rather short anime list doesn't really show it (too lazy to add everything). I love character driven stories. And I'd say this is definitely more character driven than plot driven.
thepath said: I didn't even bother to watch this crap. The anime is full of ugly looking men with a shitty art. Where are the beautiful girls that we usually see in anime ? I feel like vomiting by looking at these ugly characters. So, this going to be very hard for me to watch.
THe story about Ping Pong ? meh Thats less reason for me to watch. I'm not fan of sport anime, and this season we have already two sports anime that are miles better, Baby Steps and Haikyuu!!
Even without watching it, I can say this is probably the worst anime in this season
Holy shit, that was good! Honestly, I've got High expectations for this one.
Also, I don't get why people would judge it as crap with only one episode out. Sure the animation is quite different from what we're used to, but it's got a certain "charm" to it, so to speak.
I'd say it's way better than the rest of the generic crap we get nowadays.
What do you think? The meaning of our existence. Why do we continue to live?
~Iris Rain Umbrella, my favorite robot
Just watched it. It'll take me some time to get used to the art although the animation isn't bad at all. Especially during the matches. The art looks good for backgrounds and such, but some details of characters just look off, especially the hair and all.
But other than that, the story's really good. It's great to see some characters speak in Chinese and I was glad to see the difference in talent between the main characters and that Chinese player. Smile is an interesting character too, I really wonder how good he can be.
Well, that was surprisingly better than I would have thought. I wasn't waiting that much that show, but now it made me hyped for the next episode.
I wasn't so sure about the animation style but I got habituated fastly.
That Peko seem like a huge brat, but we saw the reality, he is good, but he is far from being great. He can beat amateur people, but as soon as he meet serious opponent, he is no match.
Smile is really interresting. From what China said, he have a lot of talent but seem to give no fuck about it. Will he become interrested in ping pong or will he become a martyr of his own talent?
The OP was ultra lame though, I hope it will not always be a lazy montage of episode scene...
«Time is passing so quickly. Right now, I feel like complaining to Einstein. Whether time is slow or fast depends on perception. Relativity theory is so romantic. And so sad.» - Kurisu Makise a.k.a. The Zombie
Isayama Hajime should be awarded The Manga with The Highest Inconsistencies of Characters' Appearances.
He keeps performing multiple plastic surgeries on those Shingeki No Kyojin characters in a SINGLE chapter.
Yes, I've read up to the latest chapter of Shingeki No Kyojin manga.
Forced myself to read through the kidsketching chapters after the anime's ended. At least from now on, I only have to go through the hell once a month.
Patiently awaiting SNK TV/movie/OVA anime-sequel.
The 2015 SNK live-action movie would probably suck.
I'm surprised so many people are bashing the art style. Things like Mind Game and Kemonozume came out nearly ten years ago, are people are still adjusting to Yuasa? If they had gone with a more cliche art style there would have been an outcry. Taiyo Matsumoto is a national treasure. His artwork defies convention; the man is an auteur. Pop over to the latter volumes of Ping Pong; the level of intensity, fluidity, detail and excellence Matsumoto achieves is second to none. I couldn't be more happy they've tried to replicate his work in the anime. I appreciate different tastes, but the art style is not the plague. I just hope people stick around and give it a chance, because the latter matches will be a spectacle to behold.
I am watching a sports anime because of Yuasa. Whoa.
This was a quite good episode, but I think the series has room for improvement. Storyline-wise, it's just an introduction to the main characters and I have already grown an interest on Smile, Peko and the Chinese player so I guess it covers its purpose. On the other hand I don't know too much about ping pong and its rules/characteristics so some of its technicalities are kind of hard to follow.
The animation is very fine and fluid, though i somehow expected it to be even better, and the artstyle very consistent. It's quite similar to Mind Game and that, to me, is more of a good thing than anything. I couldn't care less if people are trying to make this the new Aku no Hana or not, honestly. To me they are nothing alike.
Holy SHIT this actually had me getting excited. Nice to see something different come by once in a while. Art is very much like a more polished Kemonozume. The different body poses/gestures and the way they were animated made it even more exciting, let alone the cinematography. It's also nice to see that not everyone is a photogenic piece of fucking goddamn motherfucking scrotum anus shit. Thought it was MADHOUSE or MAPPA working on this, but Tatsunoko shares the same roots so that makes this worth watching. Nice to see that they're faithful to its essence, English and Chinese and all.
This is going to be good goddamnit.
Nishimi Kaoru meets Ozu.
How the fuck is this, in any way, like Aku no Hana????? It's more like MIND GAME or Kemonozume. Fucking retards can't even tell what's what.
Wind_Falcon said: Hah, had to reply after tsudecimo's last post.
When we talk about subjectiveness and opinion, its usually when someone likes a shitty/bad taste piece or dislikes a masterpiece for some reason. Whether the works of art are good or bad is not a point of debate, nor is it something subjective concerning opinions. Anyone can like or dislike Dante's Divine Comedy, Beethoven's 9th or Van Gogh's Starry Night, but if anyone goes on to say that they are shit, he will be rightfully laughed at and ridiculed. Artistic quality is objective.
Why debates like this get started is usually because of narrow mindedness. I mean no one should really be surprised why every thread about Mamoru Oishii movies has the same comments about "slow plot/no plot at all" and why every anime with unconventional art style is instantly labeled as garbage when you check out the top anime on this and other sites (not just anime as well).
Of course there are people that just don't like something, but I assure you, they are the extreme minority. If you still think the discrepancy I outlined in the previous paragraph is not related to this, you are plain and simply wrong.
Really that's you argument? something was well received by the majority so it's quality is inherent and objective?
Your ignorance is really cute.
Opinions by default are not objective. Subjectivity is not only about whether you like it or not, it's about every little judgement you have with the quality and basically everything that is not objective.
The only objective things are the summary, the information about the characters, the cost of productions, the attributes of the characters and other factual things relating to the show.
ob·jec·tive (b-jktv)
adj.
1. Of or having to do with a material object.
2. Having actual existence or reality.
3.
a. Uninfluenced by emotions or personal prejudices
b. Based on observable phenomena; presented factually: an objective appraisal.
Objectivity is a central philosophical concept, related to reality and truth, which has been variously defined by sources. Generally, objectivity means the state or quality of being true even outside of a subject's individual biases, interpretations, feelings, and imaginings. A proposition is generally considered objectively true (to have objective truth) when its truth conditions are met and are "mind-independent"—that is, existing freely or independently from a mind (from the thoughts, feelings, ideas, etc. of a sentient subject).
And I doubt you will read the following but it might make you understand more
A) Objective writing
B) Objective animation
C) Not everything is subjective
let's debunk one at a time, but first establish what objective means or people will get confused.
Objective means "inherent of the Object".
Let's take a object: Water.
Water above 0°C on normal pressure is liquid. It's the inherent property of water.
Water below 0°C on normal pressure is solid. Everyone can test this, just pick up a piece of ice, it is solid.
Water above 100°C is gas. People everywhere can test these things. There are no interpretations or opinions needed on this.
These are inherent objective properties of water.
Subjective means what a Subject (aka a MIND) interprets into these objective facts.
"Icewater is good because you can ice skate on it" Is an subjective interpretation of an objective fact.
Yes it is objectivity right that you can ice skate on solid water. but whether that is a good or bad thing is subjective, a mind created the value, or the subjective property of "goodness" for the solid water.
Values are by definition subjective. So whatever purpose you see in an objective is always a subjective interpretation.
The only way you can make values objective is within a framework, with a predefined purpose.
Poison is by definition just poisonous, neither good or bad.
Drinking poison therefor has no objective meaning. It will simply kill you. That is an objective fact.
A person who wants to live (subjective framework = staying alive) is doing a mistake by drinking deadly poison.
Hence, poison is bad.
A person who wants to die (subjective framework = being dead) is doing the right thing by drinking deadly poison.
Hence, poison is good.
Let's apply this method to reviewing.
"Objective" good writing.
It is true that humanity came up with ways to tell a story and that our brain reacts to certain stimuli better than to others. But let's not forget every brain (mind) is different and has different values.
We already see the framework.
Mind
Values
Subjective things.
Humans are by definition subjective when they judge. Depending on your culture, upbringing, education and personal experiences your value will be different to that of another person.
That means there must be a form of writing that applies to all brains equally, like we can all identify liquid water and solid water.
But that's not the case because the writing of a story is not objective. There are parts of it that are objective, but whether our subjective brains are stimulated by them or not can not be guarantied.
However long humanity defined the way they tell stories, in the end it is just as subjective as taste in music, or art.
Only under a framework we can talk about objectivity.
A Hentai without sex is clearly a bad hentai because it defies it's own definition (framework).
A show that aims to have no fanservice and yet offers plenty of nipple scenes and boobgrabs fails and thus defied it's own framework and hence is objectively bad.
Yet fanservice in it self is neither good or bad.
So are stories.
A) has plotholes
B) offers no clear ending
C) is slow
These are all objective facts, but how you interpret them is dependent not only on the given framework, but also on your values.
Since all these frameworks are equally valid because no one can prove their objective purpose it's a matter of personal taste what you like and what not.
Objective Animation Quality
One might question if not animation can be stated in facts.
No it cannot, for the same reason. There is always a subjective framework.
We might see mistakes, or see how one show makes it more fluid, or more correct. But those things are all based on the assumption that there is an objective purpose.
Yes under that framework animation quality can be good or bad, and we all use it. But since we gain new information every time our standards change.
A kid who only watched pokemon might think this is totally fine, while someone who watched GitS thinks it's the worst shit ever (in animation).
Our minds are by definition subjective, thus whatever we judge is only as valid as the information we had at that given time. It is limited and not complete, it relies on preconceived notions on how things ought to be. All artificial rules created by humanity.
If reviews are objective then the purpose of Mountains is to climb them, because that's what people do.
Just because fact A is true (you can climb mountains) you cannot say "therefor B is the right thing" (mountains are for climbing).
tl;dr
You cannot derive and IS from an OUGHT.
How anime is supposed to be is based on the individual giving the framework in which the medium is judged.
Every human being has a different framework thus, every judgement is inherently different => subjective.
Things are just.
We give them value based on our subjective minds that seek meaning.
Things that come from a mind are subjective, because a SUBJECT is projecting them onto objects.
Like Values, Meaning, Purpose and Morals.
Where in my post exactly am I talking about this show in particular, and how it has been "well received by the majority", and how that reason in particular makes "it's quality inherent and objective"???
A lot of the time it's the opposite, like I already mentioned in my last post. Art is usually unrecognized by the larger audience.
But what is art is objective. Its empirical in it's very nature of whether it is or isn't art. No one's opinion about anything or ability to perceive art and quality changes that.
Though if you really are going to argue against this, I want to see your arguments about how Dante's Divine Comedy, Beethoven's 9th or Van Gogh's Starry Nigh can't objectively have artistic quality.
Otherwise it just boils down to another "You like what I don't like/don't like what I like" deal, which I already said again in my previous post, is meaningless.
Edit: Though you are right about the individual framework, I too have noticed this. Most people do in fact have narrow presuppositions about what art and quality should be, and everything that falls outside of that is by default "not art / bad", when in reality they can be just as good outside of those presuppositions. That's exactly what I meant about objective artistic quality and personal opinion. Most people just confuse these two very different things for being one and the same.
Where in my post did I reference this anime. I'm merely talking about the use of the word objective and objectively. I was referencing the examples you presented as prove of ''objective'' quality and the implications I interpreted from them.
Anyone can like or dislike Dante's Divine Comedy, Beethoven's 9th or Van Gogh's Starry Night, but if anyone goes on to say that they are shit, he will be rightfully laughed at and ridiculed. Artistic quality is objective.
How is this relevant? I'm talking about the quality aspect and your assertion of it being objective and inherent, not where it's art or not.
It depends on what you mean by artistic quality. If you mean the excellence of craft and something, then no those don't really have it inherently, and I would love to see you prove how an art can have an inherent objective quality in it, that's independent of people's perception of quality. The whole argument is not about those examples in the first place, it's about you thinking that subjectivness only mean personal enjoyment and is only relevant to like, apathy and dislike.
Otherwise it just boils down to another "You like what I don't like/don't like what I like" deal, which I already said again in my previous post, is meaningless.
Good job on ignoring what I said, and repeating the same thing.
''Subjectivity is not only about whether you like it or not, it's about every little judgement you have with the quality and basically everything that is not objective.''
Judgment means whether you think something is bad or good. (ex: Yussa's works are objectively different than the more standard anime, they are not objectively better however. Or objectively good, bad and average)
My original post was directed at your "there is such thing as an objective opinion. Objective opinions don't exist, there is only subjective ones, like yours and mine and etc." comment.
And since we are discussing a show in a medium that most people agree produces, at least some of the time, art, of course I'm talking about artistic quality, and not say craftsmanship quality, though this can be relevant or irrelevant in something being or not being art.
And no, "the excellence of craft and something" is not necessarily what I mean under artistic quality, but I feel the debate is rendered meaningless if we have to define artistic quality so late and then start arguing that one's opinion about what it is is subjective. That's why I mentioned Dante's Divine Comedy, Beethoven's 9th or Van Gogh's Starry Night, because I think they are pretty obvious in why they have objective artistic quality, which cannot be argued against. You can substitute them with an ocean of other masterpieces as well.
But all this is derailing the discussion away from what it was meant to address - your initially comment. Personal opinions being subjective in nature in no way shape or form has a bearing on what is art or has quality. Art is in itself a "quality" - like being human.
Though I do admit I might have misread your first comment in light of all the rest of the thread, in which case I apologize. But it did sound like it was made in view all the "if it's different, does that make it good, and if it doesn't what constitutes good art" and so on comments before it.