Monogatari Series: Second Season Episode 21 Discussion

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Oct 2010

5252

Damn I really liked this episode, more specifically the part where kaiki is convincing himself to take the job. I wonder what his deal with kanbaru is.

Nov 25, 2013 9:37 PM

#113

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Dec 2012

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skudoops said:
I wonder what his deal with kanbaru is.

He knows Gaen ( he went to the same college along with Oshino meme) who is Kanbaru's aunt. He first appeared when Koyomi left Kanbaru's house and met him. Kaiki was trying to figure if "there's any business he could do", which is referenced to Kanbaru and her hand, but since Koyomi already helped her, he didn't find it interesting or profitable, so he leaves.

I think that is his deal with Kanbaru.

Nov 25, 2013 10:08 PM

#114

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Oct 2010

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tsudecimo said:

skudoops said:
I wonder what his deal with kanbaru is.

He knows Gaen ( he went to the same college along with Oshino meme) who is Kanbaru's aunt. He first appeared when Koyomi left Kanbaru's house and met him. Kaiki was trying to figure if "there's any business he could do", which is referenced to Kanbaru and her hand, but since Koyomi already helped her, he didn't find it interesting or profitable, so he leaves.

I think that is his deal with Kanbaru.

I remembered all that, but he said "if it's to help Kanbaru, can I save my foes?" What I don't understand is why would he help, since he has no profit to gain (her situation has already been resolved). I assumed it had something to do with Gaen, but I was wondering what exactly that is.

Nov 25, 2013 10:26 PM

#115

geemaa

(Gamer)

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Aug 2009

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Asking the man who screwed you over earlier for help. That's crazy, but she has no choice.

Nov 25, 2013 10:30 PM

#116

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This episode shows why Kaiki is so popular with monogatari fans. The episode has only 2 characters talking to each other (the waitress spoke so little that she doesn't count) and I think the adaptation was done very well and brought up the unique charm of Kaiki pretty well too (as is the personality of Hitagi but less so).

It is great to see how NisiOisiN thought out almost everything including the link between Kaiki and Kanbaru back in Nise. Although I would say that while Kanbaru may be a factor for him agreeing to help Araragi and Hitagi, it is more like Kaiki trying very hard to find a reason, an excuse, to bend his policy and thus to help them.

And nobody seems to be surprised at how Hitagi, who lives in a run-down condo, has the money to fly to Okinawa... And Tsubasa, who has to support herself as she has no place in the family, has the means to try to look for Nene overseas....

So MAL finally starts locking news threads that are only a few weeks old?

I wonder where was the announcement of this change? Or we are seeing yet another case of changes made that impacted users but not communicated to them?

I wonder how long people would put up with this.

As much as I have a bunch of information to share about anime announced recently I cannot share it in news board, and the anime series is too disorganized and chaotic to share information except with people already interested in the particular series.

Nov 25, 2013 10:39 PM

#117

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Dec 2012

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skudoops said:

I remembered all that, but he said "if it's to help Kanbaru, can I save my foes?" What I don't understand is why would he help, since he has no profit to gain (her situation has already been resolved). I assumed it had something to do with Gaen, but I was wondering what exactly that is.

Oh that was what you meant. Yeah I thought he was going to say ''No da'' to that too. But I think he wants to help Hitagi, he is just trying to make up excuses for that since helping her contradicts or goes against how he normally does his work.

symbv said:

And nobody seems to be surprised at how Hitagi, who lives in a run-down condo, has the money to fly to Okinawa...

I thought her father was rich or is decent when it comes to money, otherwise how could have she afford to pay for all the 5 con artists and Oshino. Hitagi doesn't live in that unfinished condo because she is poor, I can't remember the reason why but I think it was mentioned when Araragi asked her in either Bake or Nise or maybe it was Hanekewa in Neko, my memory is bad..

Nov 25, 2013 10:40 PM

#118

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Sep 2012

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tsudecimo said:

I thought her father was rich or is decent when it comes to money, otherwise how could have she afford to pay for all the 5 con artists and Oshino.

But they lost all the money to con artists after that.

So MAL finally starts locking news threads that are only a few weeks old?

I wonder where was the announcement of this change? Or we are seeing yet another case of changes made that impacted users but not communicated to them?

I wonder how long people would put up with this.

As much as I have a bunch of information to share about anime announced recently I cannot share it in news board, and the anime series is too disorganized and chaotic to share information except with people already interested in the particular series.

Nov 25, 2013 10:44 PM

#119

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Hmmm, but still flying to Okinawa shouldn't be expensive, her father is not out of work or anything. Hanekewa searching for Oshino is questionable though, you are right.

Nov 25, 2013 10:45 PM

#120

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symbv said:
And Tsubasa, who has to support herself as she has no place in the family, has the means to try to look for Nene overseas....

I won't lie, I assumed that Hitagi paid for it. I've assumed that while they aren't rich anymore her father still works his job and gets paid well. So despite them not having a large amount of wealth amassed, they do have a large amount of income.

Nov 25, 2013 10:47 PM

#121

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Sep 2012

10121

tsudecimo said:
Hmmm, but still flying to Okinawa shouldn't be expensive, her father is not out of work or anything.

Using low-cost carrier, it is possible to fly from Tokyo to Okinawa under 20k yen but the time was January 1st which is a super-popular time for people to fly (because of the long new year vacation) so I would imagine a much more expensive air fare to fly that day (and on short notice too which is the case with Hitagi).

So MAL finally starts locking news threads that are only a few weeks old?

I wonder where was the announcement of this change? Or we are seeing yet another case of changes made that impacted users but not communicated to them?

I wonder how long people would put up with this.

As much as I have a bunch of information to share about anime announced recently I cannot share it in news board, and the anime series is too disorganized and chaotic to share information except with people already interested in the particular series.

Nov 25, 2013 11:32 PM

#122

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Sep 2012

10121

To be honest, I felt quite thrilled when after a bunch of NO Kaiki finally came up with a YES at the end. I think the way they panned out the whole monologues is very well done.

So MAL finally starts locking news threads that are only a few weeks old?

I wonder where was the announcement of this change? Or we are seeing yet another case of changes made that impacted users but not communicated to them?

I wonder how long people would put up with this.

As much as I have a bunch of information to share about anime announced recently I cannot share it in news board, and the anime series is too disorganized and chaotic to share information except with people already interested in the particular series.

Nov 25, 2013 11:38 PM

#123

Yuna

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Jun 2010

1204

dat monologue tho

Nov 25, 2013 11:51 PM

#124

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mugi said:
Yes I think that empathized the significance of his decision really well.
But the voice actor is partially to praise for this as well.

I think the series as a whole has impeccable voice acting, I honestly have to commend them for their casting as well as directing here. Every VA fits every character imo and I particularly like Senjougahara's and to a lesser extent Kanbaru's.

Nov 25, 2013 11:53 PM

#125

ihusmal1234

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Jul 2013

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tsudecimo said:
Hmmm, but still flying to Okinawa shouldn't be expensive, her father is not out of work or anything. Hanekewa searching for Oshino is questionable though, you are right.

I remember Hanekawa telling Araragi she was planning to travel the world after high school way back in bake. And since it's been 4-5 months since then, she should've been able to sum up a bit of money. Not sure about the wealth of the Tsubasa family, but if they have a 2 story condo it shouldn't be that bad. Since Hanekawa's relations with her parents got better maybe they're supporting her more now. Or since she's number one in her class (not sure how the college system goes in Japan) she might have gotten some type of scholarship overseas and searching for Meme might have been a side job that got brought up recently.

Nov 26, 2013 12:02 AM

#126

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mugi said:

skudoops said:

mugi said:
Yes I think that empathized the significance of his decision really well.
But the voice actor is partially to praise for this as well.

I think the series as a whole has impeccable voice acting, I honestly have to commend them for their casting as well as directing here. Every VA fits every character imo and I particularly like Senjougahara's and to a lesser extent Kanbaru's.

Mhm, and while I don't really care about Mayoi, their presentation of that last scene and her voice acting actually made me cry.

I didn't cry or anything, but I did genuinely feel bad for her. Not to mention the way they concluded that episode with emotions running so high also made it have more impact IMO, I couldn't believe it for a bit after the episode had ended.

Nov 26, 2013 5:10 AM

#127

BillyMK

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Jun 2012

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I have to admit the only reason I didn't cry was because I had already spoiled myself about her departure... damn Hachikuji! Why YOU??

Nov 26, 2013 5:12 AM

#128

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BillyMK said:
I have to admit the only reason I didn't cry was because I had already spoiled myself of her departure... damn Hachikuji! Why YOU??

Are you sure you posted to the right episode thread? In this episode Hachikuji did not make appearance (only Kaiki and Hitagi did). You might want to post to episode 20 thread instead?

So MAL finally starts locking news threads that are only a few weeks old?

I wonder where was the announcement of this change? Or we are seeing yet another case of changes made that impacted users but not communicated to them?

I wonder how long people would put up with this.

As much as I have a bunch of information to share about anime announced recently I cannot share it in news board, and the anime series is too disorganized and chaotic to share information except with people already interested in the particular series.

Nov 26, 2013 5:18 AM

#129

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Dec 2012

24355

^ I think he is commenting on the topic of conversation between mugi and skudoops in the previous page (''while I don't really care about Mayoi, their presentation of that last scene and her voice acting actually made me cry'')

Nov 26, 2013 5:23 AM

#130

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Sep 2012

10121

^ I see. Interesting to see how discussion of that impressive episode spills over to another episode's discussion.

So MAL finally starts locking news threads that are only a few weeks old?

I wonder where was the announcement of this change? Or we are seeing yet another case of changes made that impacted users but not communicated to them?

I wonder how long people would put up with this.

As much as I have a bunch of information to share about anime announced recently I cannot share it in news board, and the anime series is too disorganized and chaotic to share information except with people already interested in the particular series.

Nov 26, 2013 7:00 AM

#131

cyruz

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destructo22 said:

TwinImpact said:
I really hated that Hitagi was willing sell her body luckily Kaiki is a good guy

Me too, but this only shows how desperate she is and how far she has come as a character throughout the series. You can feel the hesitation and uneasiness throughout the whole 2nd half of the conversation about payment. Luckily, Kaiki was like, "NOPE" *coffee in the face*

Kaiki a good guy? Please.

Hitagi shouldn't have said that. No, it doesn't emphasize anything. It only opens the path of Araragi despairing over it if that would really happen. You think he'd like that?

I really didn't like this episode at all. That's a first.

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Nov 26, 2013 7:35 AM

#132

V0ltg

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Oct 2013

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TwinImpact said:

I don't think she tried to make him guilty you know she will do anything for help Koyomi even sell her body? So, I said luckily Kaiki is a good guy if he's not good I think he will accept last offer
Tbh I don't hate Gahara, but just hate what she said

The thing is that Hitagi expected that Kaiki would react like he did to to her "bluff'' more or less. I know that Kaiki appears as someone who doesn't give a shit about anything as long as there is no profit/gain/etc. for him, but he's actually quite the guy who values his morals very highly. On top of that, he's also someone who cares for Hitagi. The fact that Kaiki knew in Nisemonogatari about the car accident and death of that priest, who tried to rape Hitagi, shows that pretty much. I mean, why else would he know about such a "fiddling" and "profitless" information if he really doesn't give a damn about Hitagi's development.

tsudecimo said:

Oh that was what you meant. Yeah I thought he was going to say ''No da'' to that too. But I think he wants to help Hitagi, he is just trying to make up excuses for that since helping her contradicts or goes against how he normally does his work.

I agree. I think that Kaiki was ready to help Koyomi and Hitagi, but he didn't want to admit it since helping his "rivals" for free(!) would contradict how people actually think of him. That's why he looked for a reason where he would also benefit (the safety of Kanbaru). He kind of conned himself in the bathroom.

V0ltgNov 26, 2013 7:44 AM

Nov 26, 2013 7:39 AM

#133

Akanezora

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Jul 2010

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Brilliant dialogues between Kaiki and Hitagi, the VAs are really to be praised.

Btw, as for Senjougahara willing to sell her body I don't think she really meant it, why would she make Araragi feel bad? Just take it as a dirty joke.

Nov 26, 2013 7:48 AM

#134

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Sep 2012

10121

mugi said:
I was commenting on the presentation if this episode and complementing on Kaiki's voice actor. Ended up complementing the voice acting in general.

I see :-)

Anyway given the source material is just a long series of dialogues I think this episode was done exceedingly well. And it is almost every area, from directing, to the visual, to the sound and of course the voice acting.

I even tried to count how often Kaiki's shirt changed color !! LOL

symbvNov 26, 2013 7:52 AM

So MAL finally starts locking news threads that are only a few weeks old?

I wonder where was the announcement of this change? Or we are seeing yet another case of changes made that impacted users but not communicated to them?

I wonder how long people would put up with this.

As much as I have a bunch of information to share about anime announced recently I cannot share it in news board, and the anime series is too disorganized and chaotic to share information except with people already interested in the particular series.

Nov 26, 2013 7:52 AM

#135

Read this if you want to start the Fate/ series but don't know from where.

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Sep 2012

10121

I am sure Senjougahara meant every single word she said. She is this desperate and she wants to save Araragi so much. If we just take it as a dirty joke, I would say it would be just like paying disrespect to her seriousness in pleading. Of course Senjougahara being Senjougahara it is hard for her to stop being ironic but in this episode she sounded serious way more often than she usually is.

So MAL finally starts locking news threads that are only a few weeks old?

I wonder where was the announcement of this change? Or we are seeing yet another case of changes made that impacted users but not communicated to them?

I wonder how long people would put up with this.

As much as I have a bunch of information to share about anime announced recently I cannot share it in news board, and the anime series is too disorganized and chaotic to share information except with people already interested in the particular series.

Nov 26, 2013 8:05 AM

#136

ssjokg

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20025

THey have like 4 months of life,if things remain like this.If she and Araragi(thinking about her) arent desperate then there would be a problem with their chars.--mainly what you guys have been saying.

Calling this ep bad,not liking it, because a char is willing to go in such extremes for their soon-to-die-loved one is crazy.

I mean in the last ep of Medusa, Hitagi was willing to be the only "sacrifice" to Nadeko in order to save Araragi, but some "get sick" over this ep?Or calling it a dirty joke?

ssjokgNov 26, 2013 8:10 AM

Nov 26, 2013 8:09 AM

#137

Read this if you want to start the Fate/ series but don't know from where.

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Sep 2012

10121

ssjokg said:
Calling this ep bad,not liking it, because a char is willing to go in such extremes for their soon-to-die-loved one is crazy.

Actually I think the opposite, it is only human for a human to go to extreme to save her soon-to-die loved one even if it means she has to sacrifice everything herself. It may be crazy but it is very human thing too.

So MAL finally starts locking news threads that are only a few weeks old?

I wonder where was the announcement of this change? Or we are seeing yet another case of changes made that impacted users but not communicated to them?

I wonder how long people would put up with this.

As much as I have a bunch of information to share about anime announced recently I cannot share it in news board, and the anime series is too disorganized and chaotic to share information except with people already interested in the particular series.

Nov 26, 2013 8:12 AM

#138

ssjokg

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Aug 2009

20025

symbv said:

ssjokg said:
Calling this ep bad,not liking it, because a char is willing to go in such extremes for their soon-to-die-loved one is crazy.

Actually I think the opposite, it is only human for a human to go to extreme to save her soon-to-die loved one even if it means she has to sacrifice everything herself. It may be crazy but it is very human thing too.

I was talking about a user above, and maybe others too, since I didnt read ALL the pages.

Nov 26, 2013 8:37 AM

#139

MrPrinceSanji

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Feb 2013

25

Guys, just chill a little!

Hitagi has made so many commentaries in that direction over the course of the seasons, its become almost something like her trademark theme of conversation. Heck, she even recommended Araragi to choose her making breakfast for him wearing nothing but an apron and watching her from behind while doing so as an appropriate means of her showing him her gratitude :D.

Come to think of it: shes probably just so sexually confused/ socially awkward in a twisted way (probably because of her childhood experiences :/), that she just doesnt know what to say in public and what not to. (Anyways, its definitely not out out of character.) So just take it with a grain of salt, were never gonna find out either way.

Btw: loved the episode!

MrPrinceSanjiNov 26, 2013 8:45 AM

Nov 26, 2013 9:31 AM

#140

Cerisine

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Dec 2011

363

Turns out Kaiki's hard to hate

Nov 26, 2013 12:35 PM

#141