Mahou Shoujo Madoka★Magica Movie 3: Hangyaku no Monogatari Episode 1 Discussion

Offline

Oct 2010

5252

ambie said:

Nope I don't think it's your disdain for Homura because even though I like her as a character, I agree with all that you said.

I feel like this movie really went against her character, the Homura that dedicated her life to fight for the world Madoka wanted to protect? She becomes someone who, like you said, disrespects everything Madoka's sacrifice stood for.

Wall of text below...

Actually I think her actions in this movie fit her character exactly. Homura is obviously obsessed with Madoka, the TV series outlines this as much and is willing to go great lengths to save her and make her happy. The revelation that Madoka did not want to become a goddess and was "suffering" due to her wish was simply too much for Homura (the discussion they had in the field brought about this realization). She initially was going to continue on as normal until she eventually fell and was reunited with Madoka.

However upon learning that Madoka did not want to become a goddess but rather did it because it was the right thing to do Homura snapped and decided to take drastic action. The reason her soul gem was glowing another colour (from my interpretation) was that she had not fallen into despair, rather because she was in a frenzied state of love, she had reached a point where she was determined to make Madoka happy in the way she saw fit. The second thing was that she wanted to protect Madoka from QB's kind, and the final thing is she wanted Madoka to be happy.

All of these things fit with her character, she had always been willing to go to great lengths for Madoka so I am not surprised to see that she was willing to go this far. Let me ask something though, is Homura really in the wrong here? Yes it's true that what she did might be looked on as an act of selfishness and obsession, but has she really done anything wrong? As far as I'm aware, her goal was to change the universe so witches/MGs no longer exist and Madoka could live happily.

When you think about it, this resembles exactly what Madoka was doing when she created her own "paradise" for fallen magical girls, except this time Homura is the one creating a paradise. It's likely Homura opted to use this method because she had already experienced creating a paradise for herself, and saw how happy everyone was. She even used the same method of re-writing the memories of Madoka, Sayaka, Charlotte, etc. The only thing Homura is doing wrong IMO is trying to control Madoka, she essentially did a role reversal in her new world. This was likely to get Madoka to feel the same way about her to the extent she feels about Madoka.

I think I got really off topic there, so I'm sorry for that. I just like discussing this show and a couple others alot.

GD1551Nov 18, 2013 10:03 AM

Nov 18, 2013 12:04 AM

#105

Offline

Jul 2018

561541

Exeneva said:
So you agree the film ending is marginally less sucky and therefore better? Yay!

We have no idea what the Homuverse is even like. Except for a few things;
1: There are familiars walking around. (This is rather bad, I'd say.)
2: There are still Wraiths walking around too apparently. (No different from the Madokaverse)
3: Madoka is now a transfer student from America. (...Huh?")
4: Sayaka seems to be under the impression that Homura is going to destroy the universe. (Which Homura does not deny.)
5: The moon has been cloven in half. (...Huh?)
6: Sayaka and Nagisa are still alive. (Yay, I guess?)

The movie presents an ending which is, taken at face-value, technically a happier ending than the show, as everyone is alive and yet there doesn't appear to be any witches walking around. At the same time though, you also have Homura constantly twirling her metaphorical mustache being evil for no apparent reason, Sayaka's apparent belief that the world is doomed, and just a general feeling of unsettlingness going through the whole thing. It remains to be seen if this world of Homura's is ultimately an improvement over Madoka's or not...

And I never said that episode 12's bittersweet-ness was a bad thing. It was a perfectly fitting conclusion for this story, and going any happier than what they did there would just have felt like a copout. And then there is again that whole thing with how the entire series was very clearly setting up for what happened in episode 12, to the point where when it did happen it made perfect sense, whereas this movie has absolutely no indicators that Homura stealing Madoka's powers and becoming the Devil and rewriting the universe is even possible before she actually does it. And then after the fact, the only explanation we get is "My Soul Gem was tainted by love."

Nov 18, 2013 9:28 AM

#106

KlaLaskaXD

Offline

Jun 2013

118

Okay, thanks to you people I watched it, camripped but whatever, still.
And...
I'm disappointed. I am really, really disappointed. First of all: annoying "kawaii" magical girl typical stuff like them transforming for half an hour and later yelling something shitty together like in a freaking Tokyo Mew Mew. Also Kyuubey saying "Kyuu" or something like that, okay, I get it, he was pretending to not talk, but... couldn't he just stay... quiet? xD Wouldn't that be better? Also BB in her little Charlotte form was annoying sometimes, but it somehow fit her. Would be better if she was more quiet though. Also, the big minus in the thing: Just defuq Homura? Cool, they made a psycho weirdo of my second favourite character. Now she's the last. Just the hell did she do, why went philosophy about hey what's wrong with this world it's weird? I guess she has some mental disorder and just can't stay happy.I wouldn't really give a shit about the outside world, if I had all the magical girls together happy around me, and wouldn't try to kill them because they were evil in another timelines. I mean, maybe I'm not right. To be honest, I don't even really get what happened with her and what she did. That was just too philosophish and too artistic and so it went ununderstandable. For stupid me, of course.
Also, another minus is the new soundtrack. It just... HAS to be the old one, or it's not Madoka. At least theme songs. I think there was Mami's theme song one time when they were fighting, or at least something similar, and it made the scene much better.
Okay, now about the good things. All the characters except of Homura, were awesome, really, I could even call them more logical than in the first series, especially Madoka, who finally stopped whining and fought alongside with the rest. I actually liked that they were all fighting together. Maybe if they didn't shout something stupid from time to time it would be even perfect.
I also liked BB as human. I was afraid she'll be annoying, but she wasn't, she was cool. And cute. And not stupid, as I could expect from that she's much younger.
What else good.. hm...
Madoka from USA made me laugh? xD that was just so random.
I don't know what else to say about this movie. I'd give it something between 2 and 3, but i'll go with 3, I guess.
Actually, if not Homura that needs a psychologist, the movie would be ok. But unfortunately she was like the main... thing. So yeah. That's my opinion.
I hope they're not gonna continue this. The only good thing they could still do with Madoka would be a story focused around the witches and their lives before they became the witches. Like, who Walpurgisnacht could be? I'd so gladly get to know that.
Yeah, that's all. Agree, or not, call me stupid, but I just think that all..

Paws paws paws paws paws paws paws
Neko Neko Paws
Paws is what I like
I'm a paws obsessed person, I could look at kitties' paws all my lifetime.

Nov 18, 2013 9:41 AM

#107

Martin

Offline

Oct 2012

6508

How the hell did you guys manage to watch it? I'm assuming most of you went to theaters...

Really don't feel like waiting months for the BD release >_> it's not even going to be released here, sigh.

Nov 18, 2013 9:47 AM

#108

HaXXspetten

*hug noises*

Offline

May 2013

32196

MCsq2 said:
How the hell did you guys manage to watch it? I'm assuming most of you went to theaters...

Really don't feel like waiting months for the BD release >_> it's not even going to be released here, sigh.

There was a decent camrip of it released on Nyaa about 2-3 days ago

Nov 18, 2013 10:36 AM

#109

Amarrez

Offline

Apr 2009

2596

Watashi wa raspberry

7/10 it was pretty good. Homu gon homu

Nov 18, 2013 1:01 PM

#110

Edon613

Offline

Jul 2013

55

I liked it. It really showed how dark and twisted human nature can really be. And the entire series overall showed how a person can change so drastically.

Nov 18, 2013 4:13 PM

#111

Omniknight

Offline

Oct 2008

930

OBVIOUS SPOILERS AHEAD

A few questions to those who are really astute or able to find the underlying meaning.

1) What does the spool of pink thread represent? It turns into Homura's new soul gem. It can't be the Law of Cycles since it gets kicked around by Homura's familiars much earlier in the movie, just shortly after it is revealed that Homura has indeed turned into a witch. Then what is it?

2) Near the end, when Homura tells (more like orders) Sayaka to be her daily friend, Homura's minions are throwing oranges/tomatoes at her, which then splatters on her face. What is the significance of this? Is it to represent the fact that if Sayaka does not be friendly, she will not be liked by Madoka?

Nov 18, 2013 5:06 PM

#112

Offline

Jul 2018

561541

KlaLaskaXD said:
First of all: annoying "kawaii" magical girl typical stuff like them transforming for half an hour and later yelling something shitty together like in a freaking Tokyo Mew Mew. Also Kyuubey saying "Kyuu" or something like that, okay, I get it, he was pretending to not talk, but... couldn't he just stay... quiet? xD Wouldn't that be better? Also BB in her little Charlotte form was annoying sometimes, but it somehow fit her. Would be better if she was more quiet though.

You know, a teacher of mine recently said that in his mind, Madoka Magica was a parody of Magical Girl shows. Now, I objected to that and pointed out that the show was obviously not trying to be funny, and so even if he did find it amusing, it doesn't fit the definition of a parody. (That said, he also said that he really enjoys the series, enough so that he wants to buy it.) That said... The first 30 minutes of this movie are totally a parody of the Magical Girl genre. It is about as far removed from what Madoka is usually like as they can possibly get. And honestly? I liked that. Because it's clearly intended to be completely bizarre and off-throwing.

KlaLaskaXD said:
Also, another minus is the new soundtrack. It just... HAS to be the old one, or it's not Madoka. At least theme songs. I think there was Mami's theme song one time when they were fighting, or at least something similar, and it made the scene much better.

Uh, it's still Yuki Kajiura, and leitmotifs from the show appear several times. You pointed out Mami's theme yourself, but we also hear variations of Sagitta Luminis (aka the music that played in episode 12 when Madoka became a Magical Girl, which was also used as the basis for the second movie's ending theme Hikari Furu) all throughout the film, plus I could definitely hear both Sayaka and Homura's themes during the Preposterously Long Transformation. So what, you think they shouldn't write new tracks? That the movie should have consisted entirely of stock music from the show? Because personally I'd say that would get boring pretty quickly.
Oh, and Kimi no Gin no Niwa is the single best thing about this movie. At least as far as I'm concerned.

Nov 18, 2013 5:29 PM

#113

Offline

Oct 2010

5252

Omniknight said:
OBVIOUS SPOILERS AHEAD

A few questions to those who are really astute or able to find the underlying meaning.

1) What does the spool of pink thread represent? It turns into Homura's new soul gem. It can't be the Law of Cycles since it gets kicked around by Homura's familiars much earlier in the movie, just shortly after it is revealed that Homura has indeed turned into a witch. Then what is it?

2) Near the end, when Homura tells (more like orders) Sayaka to be her daily friend, Homura's minions are throwing oranges/tomatoes at her, which then splatters on her face. What is the significance of this? Is it to represent the fact that if Sayaka does not be friendly, she will not be liked by Madoka?

Could you take a picture of the scene when it's getting kicked around? Anyway to me that scene represented homura trapping madoka and within her (Homura's) world. If you noticed just before the thread scene appears, the universe is pink, and that pink is then engulfed in the colour of Homura's soul gem, this is then represented again when Homura's new soul gem engulfs the thread.

As for your second point, my interpretation of that scene is that Homura would get rid of Sayaka if Madoka did not like her. The splatter reminds me of blood splatter (Homura uses guns so I assumed it represented a bullet to the head). Remember she's doing all of this for Madoka's happiness, so if Sayaka becomes a hindrance to do that, Homura would likely just erase her, as it stands though Madoka likes all of them, so Homura is keeping all of them around. It's why despite Homura not like mami (and stating so) she subconsciously brought her into her world. This was because Madoka liked mami and she wanted things to be perfect for Madoka (again this is my interpretation).

Nov 18, 2013 5:36 PM

#114

Offline

Oct 2010

5252

Vegard_Aune said:

You know, a teacher of mine recently said that in his mind, Madoka Magica was a parody of Magical Girl shows. Now, I objected to that and pointed out that the show was obviously not trying to be funny, and so even if he did find it amusing, it doesn't fit the definition of a parody. (That said, he also said that he really enjoys the series, enough so that he wants to buy it.) That said... The first 30 minutes of this movie are totally a parody of the Magical Girl genre. It is about as far removed from what Madoka is usually like as they can possibly get. And honestly? I liked that. Because it's clearly intended to be completely bizarre and off-throwing.

I think the first 30 minutes were supposed to represent the ideal and happy scenario of them being together fighting monsters and having a good time (i.e the scenario Homura subconsciously created). It's evident by the fact they weren't taking the nightmares seriously at all, something mami points out. Also that nightmares return to being normal people when defeated. Then there's the obvious pairings and combo moves, and the overall sense of togetherness. I agree it was meant to throw people off, because it certainly threw me off, especially that transformation scene. I was like WTF!

Aside from that, I agree with you about the OST, it was really awesome. Kalafina's two songs where awesome and I really like their style of music (they are pretty much the only japanese group I can listen to lol).

Nov 18, 2013 7:06 PM

#115

Offline

Jul 2018

561541

skudoops said:
Aside from that, I agree with you about the OST, it was really awesome. Kalafina's two songs where awesome and I really like their style of music (they are pretty much the only japanese group I can listen to lol).

While I wouldn't go so far as to call them the only good group around (Especially seeing how you've got FictionJunction which is literally the exact same thing only with a slightly different rotation of singers... and even there there's an overlap) but they're definitely my favorite Japanese band, and I always look forward to their new releases when they come around... even if I do think that they're not as good now as they were a few years back. Seriously, their second album Red Moon was pretty much 100% amazingness with the exception of maybe one or two songs. Lately

That said, Kalafina >>>>>> ClariS, as far as I'm concerned. Seriously, ClariS has provided three songs for this franchise now... and to me, they all sound exactly the same. (Or, okay, not literally, I can tell them apart... But the mood they invoke is utterly identical.)

Nov 18, 2013 7:09 PM

#116

Offline

Oct 2010

5252

Vegard_Aune said:

skudoops said:
Aside from that, I agree with you about the OST, it was really awesome. Kalafina's two songs where awesome and I really like their style of music (they are pretty much the only japanese group I can listen to lol).

While I wouldn't go so far as to call them the only good group around (Especially seeing how you've got FictionJunction which is literally the exact same thing only with a slightly different rotation of singers... and even there there's an overlap) but they're definitely my favorite Japanese band, and I always look forward to their new releases when they come around... even if I do think that they're not as good now as they were a few years back. Seriously, their second album Red Moon was pretty much 100% amazingness with the exception of maybe one or two songs. Lately

That said, Kalafina >>>>>> ClariS, as far as I'm concerned. Seriously, ClariS has provided three songs for this franchise now... and to me, they all sound exactly the same. (Or, okay, not literally, I can tell them apart... But the mood they invoke is utterly identical.)

I've always assumed ClariS was part of the trolling done by the original series. Makes you think they show is going to be all happy and what not.

Nov 18, 2013 8:29 PM

#117

eldest

Offline

Sep 2012

1336

another movie that went full eva 3.0

Jesus fucking christ what a clusterfuck of a movie that was

Nov 18, 2013 9:41 PM

#118

Offline

Jul 2018

561541

skudoops said:
I've always assumed ClariS was part of the trolling done by the original series. Makes you think they show is going to be all happy and what not.

Of course. Which is why it made sense in the show (Not to mention how episode 10 then suddenly provided some context to the lyrics and made it clear that the song is TOTALLY relevant), but continuing with those upbeat, jPop-y openings for the movies, where everyone is long-since EXPECTING grimdark horror and despair, seems to me very pointless indeed.

Nov 18, 2013 9:49 PM

#119

Offline

Oct 2010

5252

Vegard_Aune said:

skudoops said:
I've always assumed ClariS was part of the trolling done by the original series. Makes you think they show is going to be all happy and what not.

Of course. Which is why it made sense in the show (Not to mention how episode 10 then suddenly provided some context to the lyrics and made it clear that the song is TOTALLY relevant), but continuing with those upbeat, jPop-y openings for the movies, where everyone is long-since EXPECTING grimdark horror and despair, seems to me very pointless indeed.

Considering how the movie starts, I think it fit haha. There was also an insert song somewhere in the first 3 minutes that I thought really helped with the tone they were going for.

Nov 18, 2013 11:13 PM

#120

HaXXspetten

*hug noises*

Offline

May 2013

32196

I think some people are still stuck too much in the 'good ending = happy ending' train of thought. Would you really say a heartwarming and fluffy conclusion would be fitting for Madoka after everything we've been through up to this point?
Not to mention there's still more to come anyway.

Nov 19, 2013 12:03 AM

#121

Offline

Jan 2012

33

HaXXspetten said:
I think some people are still stuck too much in the 'good ending = happy ending' train of thought. Would you really say a heartwarming and fluffy conclusion would be fitting for Madoka after everything we've been through up to this point?
Not to mention there's still more to come anyway.

Yes it would be. I've never watched or read anything that couldn't of benefited from a happy ending. Not saying that everything should have one mind you.

That said, I liked this ending even as a huge Homura fan. Dark Homura is so eerie, especially dat creepy smirk face she makes. I'm looking forward to what they are going to do with her.

Nov 19, 2013 12:27 AM

#122

Portality

Offline

Sep 2012

69

Somewhere in the middle my mind stopped comprehending what was going on in the background scenery.

So long as you yourself enjoy it, what does the thoughts of others matter to you?

Nov 19, 2013 12:41 AM

#123

Offline

Jan 2012

33

Portality said:
Somewhere in the middle my mind stopped comprehending what was going on in the background scenery.

With all the crazy background stuff going on in this movie this would be like the perfect movie for a weed party.

Nov 19, 2013 2:06 AM

#124

zerriet

Offline

Nov 2013

210

eldest said:
another movie that went full eva 3.0

Jesus fucking christ what a clusterfuck of a movie that was

Still for a movie that actually gave us more insight on homura's character, your 5/10 score is way too harsh

Anime gave me more life lessons than school

Nov 19, 2013 2:46 AM

#125

eldest

Offline

Sep 2012

1336

zerriet said:

eldest said:
another movie that went full eva 3.0

Jesus fucking christ what a clusterfuck of a movie that was

Still for a movie that actually gave us more insight on homura's character, your 5/10 score is way too harsh

5/10 by MAL standards is 'average'
comparing it to the original series and movies which i gave a 9 ('Great')

i think its a fair comparison

Nov 19, 2013 2:59 AM

#126

Offline

Jan 2012

33

eldest said:

zerriet said:

eldest said:
another movie that went full eva 3.0

Jesus fucking christ what a clusterfuck of a movie that was

Still for a movie that actually gave us more insight on homura's character, your 5/10 score is way too harsh

5/10 by MAL standards is 'average'
comparing it to the original series and movies which i gave a 9 ('Great')

i think its a fair comparison

Dang, no wonder people said my grades on my list are incredibly top heavy. I figured 5 was bad and below was just various degrees of awfulness with 1 being utter piss shit tier of awful.

Nov 19, 2013 3:03 AM

#127

eldest

Offline

Sep 2012

1336

Esura said:

Dang, no wonder people said my grades on my list are incredibly top heavy. I figured 5 was bad and below was just various degrees of awfulness with 1 being utter piss shit tier of awful.

really depends on how you rate your anime, i used to use the 5-10 scale with 5 being utterly irredeemable garbage. over time i started using the 1-10 scale instead, with 5 being average, 1 being irredeemable shit, 7 being alright, 8 being good, 9 being great and 10 being masterpiece.

my average score used to be closer to 9 overall. i think its around 7 now

Nov 19, 2013 5:10 AM

#128

Ribeyrolles

Offline

Jun 2009

130

Amazing, perfect and I loved it so much that I would've given it a 10/10.

up until those terrible last 15 minutes in which case it's now an 8/10

Nov 19, 2013 7:30 AM

#129

Offline

Oct 2010

5252

Iliya said:
Amazing, perfect and I loved it so much that I would've given it a 10/10.

up until those terrible last 15 minutes in which case it's now an 8/10

Gen did say people would have very mixed opinions about it haha.

Nov 19, 2013 10:51 AM

#130

Offline

Jan 2012

33

I just remembered something, and it seems to make Homura's actions more justified. The incubators were trying to figure out a way to control Madoka and bring back Witches right which would've undid everything Madoka sacrificed to stop. I don't even see why she's positioning herself as a villain now unless its a side effect of her previously being a witch since aside from her new demeanor and some of her dialog she hasn't done any villainy or bad.

eldest said:

Esura said:

Dang, no wonder people said my grades on my list are incredibly top heavy. I figured 5 was bad and below was just various degrees of awfulness with 1 being utter piss shit tier of awful.

really depends on how you rate your anime, i used to use the 5-10 scale with 5 being utterly irredeemable garbage. over time i started using the 1-10 scale instead, with 5 being average, 1 being irredeemable shit, 7 being alright, 8 being good, 9 being great and 10 being masterpiece.

my average score used to be closer to 9 overall. i think its around 7 now

I'm generally very forgiving with anime. If I liked it I usually never rate anything below 7. I kinda suck at being critical of things I liked.

Nov 19, 2013 6:04 PM

#131

Offline

Jul 2018

561541

Iliya said:
Amazing, perfect and I loved it so much that I would've given it a 10/10.

up until those terrible last 15 minutes in which case it's now an 8/10

Still more generous than what I did. Which is to say, my initial rating of this movie was 1/10.
Giving it a second watch I found that this is way too harsh though, because even though I do find the ending to be thoroughly unsatisfying and deus ex machina-esque (Seriously, you can't just pull something like that, say "Love." as if that explains everything, and expect the fans to accept it. Nothing in the movie or show before that point ever hinted at what Homura just did even being possible), the rest of the movie is quite good. Not as good as the TV-series mind you, and still a thoroughly unnecessary add-on to what I considered to be a complete story, which is why even if it had just ended with Homura's soul being taken away by Madoka (which is what Urobuchi apparently originally had in mind before Shinbo was like "You know... I'd like an ending that leaves the door open for a sequel"), I probably wouldn't have given it more than an 8.

As it is though, we've got like one hour and thirty minutes of pretty effective, albeit slightly dragged out content which is, on its own, worth a pretty good rating IMO, followed by 15 minutes of complete and utter batshit insane nonsense with an ending that completely fails to provide a satisfying conclusion... And they apparently have no clear ideas on how to progress past this point. And Urobuchi apparently considers himself done with this franchise. So yeah, mostly good movie with an ending that I hate with a passion... I have no idea what to make of this movie as a whole. Which is why, ever since I went and watched the movie a second time, I've removed that 1/10 rating and replaced it with... nothing.

removed-userNov 19, 2013 6:08 PM

Nov 19, 2013 6:54 PM

#132

Offline

Oct 2010

5252

Vegard_Aune said:

Giving it a second watch I found that this is way too harsh though, because even though I do find the ending to be thoroughly unsatisfying and deus ex machina-esque (Seriously, you can't just pull something like that, say "Love." as if that explains everything, and expect the fans to accept it. Nothing in the movie or show before that point ever hinted at what Homura just did even being possible)

I disagree, they have stated in the series that Kyuubey's kind harvested the power generated by the emotions of the girls. The emotion highlighted was just despair, but that never ruled out the possibility of other emotions have an affect on a MG. Kyuubey even states that after seeing what was happening with homura he now realized it was too dangerous to use human emotions. So it's quite clear they never thought of the possibility either, since having none, they don't understand how strong emotions can be.

GD1551Nov 24, 2013 1:29 PM

Nov 19, 2013 7:32 PM

#133

Offline

Jul 2018

561541

skudoops said:
I disagree, they have stated in the series that Kyuubey's kind harvested the power generated by the emotions of the girls. The emotion highlighted was just despair, but that never ruled out the possibility of other emotions have an affect on a MG.

Yeah well here's the thing though, if a Soul Gem can be tainted by "love" the same way that it could be tainted by despair or just general consumption of magic (And mind you, both of those did the exact same thing to it; Turn it into a Grief Seed), where do we even draw the line? Is there some other emotion that could likewise turn a Magical Girl into something else entirely? And if that is the case, how come it's apparently never happened before? Heck, the "love-tainted" Homura was powerful enough to consciously rewrite the entire universe. That's beyond what even Madoka with her UNLIMITED POTENTIAL could do. Yes, Madoka also rewrote the universe, but this was just a side-effect of her destroying every witch in history before they ever got a chance to hatch. Homura willingly and knowingly altered the laws of the universe in order to make it fit to her plans... Oh and Madoka also basically ceased to exist in our universe as a result of this, whereas Homura is still around, still posing as a human, and can still alter stuff at her convenience. Even if one assumes that Homura took Madoka's power (which doesn't really work either, considering how the ending implies that Madoka still has her power, only it's being suppressed), it still doesn't quite work because Homura is way more powerful than Madoka ever was.

And back to the original point, yeah, they never ruled out the possibility of other emotions having an effect... But there was nothing hinting at it either. Heck, even if Kyubey had just said something like "Despair is the safest and most efficient emotion for us to harvest," that would have made this all a lot easier to accept, because it would hint that there are other options that they choose to not use because they're too risky, but no, no such thing was ever said.

Nov 19, 2013 9:10 PM

#134

Offline

Oct 2010

5252

Vegard_Aune said:

skudoops said:
I disagree, they have stated in the series that Kyuubey's kind harvested the power generated by the emotions of the girls. The emotion highlighted was just despair, but that never ruled out the possibility of other emotions have an affect on a MG.

Yeah well here's the thing though, if a Soul Gem can be tainted by "love" the same way that it could be tainted by despair or just general consumption of magic (And mind you, both of those did the exact same thing to it; Turn it into a Grief Seed), where do we even draw the line? Is there some other emotion that could likewise turn a Magical Girl into something else entirely? And if that is the case, how come it's apparently never happened before? Heck, the "love-tainted" Homura was powerful enough to consciously rewrite the entire universe. That's beyond what even Madoka with her UNLIMITED POTENTIAL could do. Yes, Madoka also rewrote the universe, but this was just a side-effect of her destroying every witch in history before they ever got a chance to hatch. Homura willingly and knowingly altered the laws of the universe in order to make it fit to her plans... Oh and Madoka also basically ceased to exist in our universe as a result of this, whereas Homura is still around, still posing as a human, and can still alter stuff at her convenience. Even if one assumes that Homura took Madoka's power (which doesn't really work either, considering how the ending implies that Madoka still has her power, only it's being suppressed), it still doesn't quite work because Homura is way more powerful than Madoka ever was.

And back to the original point, yeah, they never ruled out the possibility of other emotions having an effect... But there was nothing hinting at it either. Heck, even if Kyubey had just said something like "Despair is the safest and most efficient emotion for us to harvest," that would have made this all a lot easier to accept, because it would hint that there are other options that they choose to not use because they're too risky, but no, no such thing was ever said.

The thing is, a MG was more likely to fall from the despair of seeing their own wish twisted rather than getting to the obsessive and twisted version of love Homura had. I mean, look what it took for Homura to even get to that point, she almost turned into a witch herself, and would have had it not been for madoka (both times). It can be reasonably assumed that no other MG had the ability to reach the point Homura had.

From what I interpreted, Homura merely trapped Madoka within a world she artificially created and changed her memories (essentially doing the same thing she had done for the entire movie prior to that), the difference is, she was fully aware of it this time and changed Sayaka's and Charlotte's memories as well. This is further compounded by the fact, Sayaka and Madoka both feel off in Homura's world even though they could not remember why. From what Sakaya said though it seems Homura only has a piece of the law of cycle, which Homura refers to as the memories of Madoka when she was still Madoka.

I agree this is not properly explained though. I'm hoping gen clears up some of it.

GD1551Nov 20, 2013 7:53 AM

Nov 19, 2013 9:27 PM

#135

MotherOfUltra

Offline

May 2013

26

How I interpreted this was:
1. Basically the same. Akemi's trapped, "angels" come to get Akemi, Akemi turns herself into witch to stop Madokami from coming, but she comes anyway.
2. Now this is tricky. Before Akemi went on to find out if she was a witch or not, she was in a flower garden with Madoka. There, she hears that Madoka (fake-ish) didn't want to get forgotten. So, Akemi regrets that she made Madokami do what she did.
3. Also, this is just my theory, but I think Akemi realized from how the flower garden eroded according to her emotions and got reborn according to Madoka's words that she herself was the witch.
4. ANYHOW, when Madoka came to pick her up, Akemi decides to do what she did for 3 reasons.
a) If Madokami got Akemi, Madokami would remember everything and Kyubey could use the memories of Akemi as the basis of Madokami and learn about her, and maybe eventually controlling her. Akemi didn't want that.
b) Akemi's conversation with Madoka (fake-ish) made her think that Madoka wanted a normal life.
c) Akemi just loved her, so she didn't want any of that.
5. About the "all the mahou shoujo becoming witch again" part, I think Akemi either 1) doesn't care or 2) is going to do all that on her own.
6. She needed Kyubey so that she can surveillance him. And since she is basically God, she can make sure there's only one Kyubey and/or make sure that Kyubey doesn't contact Madoka. I think it's the latter.
7. This is out of plot, but I've realized that the name Akemi Homura and Kaname Madoka is actually a wordplay.
Kaname.
kaname.
kanamekanamekanamekanamekamekamekame
kami?
Okay that's a little forced.
But...
Akemi homura
akemihomuraakemihomurakemihomurakemimurakemiurakemiura
akuma
Yeah that might be a little forced too, but it's interesting because in S1 (ish), Madoka said that Akemi Homura is a cool name, meaning that it's a rare name.
And come on, Akemi and Akuma. They even look similar.
Well then, peace out.

Nov 20, 2013 1:38 AM

#136

Offline

Sep 2013

280

Just watched the movie.
Seemed much more chaotic than the original series.
And throughout the entire movie I still kept asking myself the question - Why is Homura so obsessed with Madoka? Why? I get it, she was her friend, but this just goes beyond it.

I'd probably give the movie 8.25/10.

Nov 20, 2013 1:40 AM

#137

HaXXspetten

*hug noises*

Offline

May 2013

32196

caperock said:
Why is Homura so obsessed with Madoka? Why? I get it, she was her friend, but this just goes beyond it.

She definitely saw her as a love interest, not a friend, she pretty much blatantly confessed so herself.

Nov 20, 2013 2:22 AM

#138

Offline

Sep 2013

280

Yeah. Pretty much.
I don't know, for some reason now I regret asking for another season/movie.
The show ended rather well, with Homura all alone, now Madoka magically returns and everything's "fine" and "happy" again. Meh.

Nov 20, 2013 4:57 AM

#139

Offline

Jul 2018

561541

caperock said:
... now Madoka magically returns and everything's "fine" and "happy" again. Meh.

I sure hope those quotations are to indicate that things aren't really "fine" and "happy" at all. Because, y'know, there's plenty of stuff hinting that things aren't even remotely "fine" and "happy" the way things stand. And yeah, the show's ending was way better than this. But I think I've stated my feelings on how unnecessary this sequel is often enough...

Oh, and I initially thought Homura's actions were out of character... Then I remembered how basically her entire life has revolved around protecting Madoka and nothing else ever since she formed her contract with Kyubey. So yeah. Homura having a downright unhealthy obsession with Madoka is not something I'll hold against the movie. Actually I'd say it's perfectly in-character.

Nov 20, 2013 5:55 AM

#140

Offline

Sep 2013

280

The music didn't feel quite as good as in the original show.
Like this one - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-J5UegrkXw.

absolutelynoneNov 20, 2013 6:08 AM

Nov 20, 2013 6:13 AM

#141

Chepri

Offline

Jun 2012

353

caperock said:
The music didn't feel quite as good as in the original show.
Like this one - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-J5UegrkXw.

Overkills are not fair.

All hail the Nutcracker Queen!

Nov 20, 2013 6:41 AM

#142

Kepiting

Offline

Dec 2012

125

First thing first. DAMN.

i watched it and wow, it dosent even make sense.. then i realized that i should rewatch this movie. and true, i understand it from rewatching about 40 minutes.

so, basicly... there is some missing point that this movie has. especially the power that homura did show. idk how she can be that powerful, since she cant be more powerful than a witch. or close to it.

they should give a sequel, or maybe an extra for explanation. from my point of view, that the 3rd movie wasn't so bad. and it is not good either. this movie required a better ending. i dont think that the ending wasnt good enough to end the movie itself, but it require more explanation than just ending it like that.

but in the end, its not a OOC movie. everything comes to the mind when it rewinded from the series, how their "wish" originally is, and so on.

music and art. no need to complain about that.
overall. 7.8/10

Nov 20, 2013 8:55 AM

#143

Offline

Sep 2013

280

Other than that, Is it just me, or was Homura much stronger in the original series?

Nov 20, 2013 9:22 AM

#144

Amarrez

Offline

Apr 2009

2596

caperock said:
Other than that, Is it just me, or was Homura much stronger in the original series?

She never fought a magical girl properly in the original series. And the time she intefered with Kyouko and Sayaka's fight neither had any idea what her powers were.

In this movie Sayaka and Mami had fought alongside Homura for what must have been months, so they clearly knew her moves and how she relied heavily on the timestop, and found ways to counter it.

Nov 20, 2013 9:27 AM

#145