-Hermit- said: Zoldra0 said: I'm not saying it's the reason, I'm saying it has helped. It's been a while since I saw an episode, but up until then there was zero proof of anything being faked by the hosts. Anything changed? Their exaggerated reactions to any sound picked up, the EVP nonsense, how every piece of activity is picked up off camera. What reason do I have to believe it's not them making every single sound, voice and movement being heard? It's complete bullshit, every single thing about it. I also laugh when they go to a different country and some how the ghost's can magically speak their language and understand them perfectly. It's a show aimed at the gullible, like every ghost hunting show out there. This video sums the show up well I have to say actually, Hermit kinda right with some of these types of programs. A lot of these types of programs are aimed at mass audiences and they could be exaggerated some things here and there, I'm not personally going to comment on Ghost Adventure because I've never seen it, but I know Most Haunted had lots of sus people involved, including Derek Acorah. I think the ones that have a better chance of believability are the ones that are supposedly long running ones, yet get pulled after only 1 week. |
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-Hermit- said: Their exaggerated reactions to any sound picked up, the EVP nonsense, how every piece of activity is picked up off camera. What reason do I have to believe it's not them making every single sound, voice and movement being heard? It's complete bullshit, every single thing about it. I also laugh when they go to a different country and some how the ghost's can magically speak their language and understand them perfectly. It's a show aimed at the gullible, like every ghost hunting show out there. Off camera? What do you mean by activity? I have seen plenty of activity on camera. In fact I remember most of it being on camera, and that's why/how they address it. The various guests that have been on the show, be it famous people or randoms, should be able to verify if shit is being faked off camera. It would take a pretty big conspiracy for it all to be staged. |
Zoldra0 said: -Hermit- said: Their exaggerated reactions to any sound picked up, the EVP nonsense, how every piece of activity is picked up off camera. What reason do I have to believe it's not them making every single sound, voice and movement being heard? It's complete bullshit, every single thing about it. I also laugh when they go to a different country and some how the ghost's can magically speak their language and understand them perfectly. It's a show aimed at the gullible, like every ghost hunting show out there. Off camera? What do you mean by activity? I have seen plenty of activity on camera. In fact I remember most of it being on camera, and that's why/how they address it. The various guests that have been on the show, be it famous people or randoms, should be able to verify if shit is being faked off camera. It would take a pretty big conspiracy for it all to be staged. Okay, show me this activity captured on camera that you can confidently say wasn't done by somebody involved with the show. It's amazing that people living in these haunted properties can never pick up anything on camera themselves, but the fantastic Ghost Adventures team led by monotone Zak will come along and all kinds of bizarre things start happening. As for guests, it's simple why they haven't called them out on anything, it's because they ain't in on it, they're just guests being told its all real. |
-Hermit- said: Okay, show me this activity captured on camera that you can confidently say wasn't done by somebody involved with the show. You are shifting the goalposts. -Hermit- said: It's amazing that people living in these haunted properties can never pick up anything on camera themselves, but the fantastic Ghost Adventures team led by monotone Zak will come along and all kinds of bizarre things start happening. I remember this episode with a family that were trying to contact their deceased daughter (?) and had at least allegedly picked up sound recordings of her voice. I also remember seeing plenty of episodes with old security camera footage and what not that had picked shit up. -Hermit- said: As for guests, it's simple why they haven't called them out on anything, it's because they ain't in on it, they're just guests being told its all real. As adults they should be able to tell what's real and what isn't. Like if they just felt a hand tap on their shoulders or not. I'm sure they don't need Zak Bagans to tell them. |
| No, not really. I don't really believe that everything I see, touch, hear, etc is reality itself. Objective reality cannot be known, but I'm still open with the possibility of ghost existing. Experience-wise, I do see figures that are ghost-like occasionally when I'm tired or exhausted, but sight itself won't make me believe on them. |
| I am sorry about the long delay. I could finally devote some time to give a proper reply to your questions and objections. 149597871 said: Meusnier said: Amusing that I argued against Occam's Razor the other day about its application to the existence of God. However, with ghosts, it would be very different because they are supposed to have a direct influence, which therefore could have been observed. Yet, there are no such evidence, only sayings of internet people. People in this thread look like the too happy bourgeois from the Années folles mocked so well by Sartre. It depends how you define ghosts, but if this is some "immaterial" thing that has a material influence, it would make no sense because it would be self-contradictory, and you will see more than one person here using this definition (who mentioned Poltergeister). Could you elaborate? Is observing an entity from a higher dimension the same thing as observing its influence? Let's deal with dimensions that we can understand better. If a supposed two-dimensional (flat) world exists in our three-dimensional Universe, then would we not be able to influence it in any way? Sure, you may argue that its inhabitants may not be able to observe our presence, but I am sure most of them will notice, if let's say, we decide to split their world in half one day. In a similar way, would there be anything preventing beings from four-dimensional planes from having direct influence in our world? Meusnier said: Now, you cannot embed a four-dimensional object (manifold) into a three-dimensional space [unless you take a non-differentiable function at most 3/4-Hölder continuous...], so this dimensional argument is not very convincing either, and this is not because an object is of higher dimensional that you cannot observe it through its projections (say). I will keep using the same logic. If you can project something from our world into a lower dimension, then I do not see a problem with doing this operation on a higher dimensional level. Of course, some properties change (it is like trying to draw a stereometric figure on a piece of paper), so you cannot "embed" an object perfectly into a lower dimension, but is "observing it through projections" not enough or possible? I am not sure if I am following you here. Meusnier said: Finally, the supernatural (or "paranormal") is another self-contradictory concept and should be replaced by the "set of phenomenon that could not be scientifically explained yet." Correct. That is what I usually mean when I say "supernatural" or "paranormal." I was merely trying to avoid wordiness or repetition. Meusnier said: What is certain so far is that no physical event was ever deemed beyond any scientific explanation. No, I have lost you again. You need to elaborate on that one as well. Meusnier said: This is not much different from thinking that a demon on your shoulder influences you to commit evil deeds, which is somewhat respectable since such a belief is orthogonal to scientific experiments. Reading this makes me shudder. Could you elaborate? Is observing an entity from a higher dimension the same thing as observing its influence? I do not think that there is a fundamental difference here if one can track back the said influence to such a higher dimensional object. But the point here about ghosts is that there is no convincing proof that any "ghost activity" ever occurred, that is, any observed phenomenon could not be explained otherwise than by the one of ghosts. Let's deal with dimensions that we can understand better. If a supposed two-dimensional (flat) world exists in our three-dimensional Universe, then would we not be able to influence it in any way? Sure, you may argue that its inhabitants may not be able to observe our presence, but I am sure most of them will notice, if let's say, we decide to split their world in half one day. In a similar way, would there be anything preventing beings from four-dimensional planes from having direct influence in our world? You are right, and we could indeed observe them easily if space has such a simple geometry, which however does not seem to be the case. I will probably be too technical below, but I need to explain where my conclusions arise from. I see now that I was too elliptic in this post for I had already dismissed the possibility of a world similar to the one in Abbot's Flatland. If we lived in a flat five-dimensional space, we would be able to directly observe abnormal phenomena that would not restrict to ghosts sighting (and not only from a given point on Earth). However, string theory predicts (or rather assumes...) the existence of extra dimensions (say six of them: the model is therefore the product space of (3+1)-dimensional Minkowski space M and a six-dimensional compact manifold Y), but of a size comparable to the one of the Planck constant (10^(-35)), which is therefore impossible to observe as the inhabitants of Flatland could directly observe Spaceland (the point here is that ghost sightings can be observed with a bare eye). Therefore, assuming that ghosts existed in some six-dimensional Calabi-Yau manifold, there would not be any obvious way for them (or some projections of them) to suddenly materialise or be observed (that does not seem physically possible either because of issues of conservation of mass). Assuming that they are higher dimensional does not help here, quite the contrary. Now, making the conservative assumption that ghosts are three-dimensional but live in Y, then there is also a first topological issue: n-dimensional manifolds—or geometries—cannot in general be embedded in the n-dimensional flat Euclidean space, but assuming that you can make such an embedding, it will never be isometric, i.e. the distances will not be preserved. This is a famous theorem of Nash that you can isometrically embed any n-manifold into a Euclidean space of dimension large enough. Due to the symmetries of the Riemann curvature tensor, there are exactly n(n+1)/2 equations, which shows that the best possible dimension is also n(n+1)/2 (in practise, you need a bit more space, and there are counterexamples depending on the geometry: surfaces of negative Gauss curvature cannot even be embedded into the three-dimensional Euclidean space [Efimov's theorem]). With n=3, you get at best an isometric embedding into the six-dimensional Euclidean space. Therefore, having your ghost travel to our space is akin as trying to make a ping pong ball go through a needle's eye and expect it to preserve some of its properties. I will keep using the same logic. If you can project something from our world into a lower dimension, then I do not see a problem with doing this operation on a higher dimensional level. Of course, some properties change (it is like trying to draw a stereometric figure on a piece of paper), so you cannot "embed" an object perfectly into a lower dimension, but is "observing it through projections" not enough or possible? I am not sure if I am following you here. See the above. This would only be possible if those higher dimensional objects existed in a total space that could be observed from our lower-dimensional sub-space. Meusnier said: What is certain so far is that no physical event was ever deemed beyond any scientific explanation. No, I have lost you again. You need to elaborate on that one as well. Here, I am merely stating the observation that there is no reason to assume that some physical phenomena that occurred at a given point of time cannot be eventually rationally explained. This is very different from mathematics where one knows that some (mathematical) truths are not attainable by logic itself. You may call that scientific optimism, but not scientism. Meusnier said: This is not much different from thinking that a demon on your shoulder influences you to commit evil deeds, which is somewhat respectable since such a belief is orthogonal to scientific experiments. Reading this makes me shudder. Sad to hear that you do not like mathematical metaphors. |
| I'm open to the idea of ghost existing, the one I would consider to be the most plausible is poltergeists, I feel like if people didn't really left this plane of existence entirely, they would probably only have the capacity to influence inanimate objects slightly so as not to disrupt the flow of life kinda. I dunno, there's definitely like 500 hoaxes for each potentially legit paranormal experience, so it's incredibly hard to come to any kind of conclusion. We are not the end all be all, we'll never fully comprehend how the universe operates, so I feel like there's a chance that yeah, maybe there are lingering spirits around us. They might not even be bad spirits, who's to say why somebody would be stuck here in a state of limbo? I'm not outright stating that such things exist, but why not play around with the idea y'know? |
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| My belief is not required here, they either exist or they don't. For my own mental safety, whatever convincing "otherworldly" encounters I had, I try to forget and simply treat them as my delusions. Thinking otherwise would be troubling, to say the least, I don't want to open that Pandora's box, I have enough trouble dealing with things that are already proven to exist. |
| I believe that they exist, I believe that otherworldly encounters can happen, but I hallucinate things sometimes, so I usually just treat my "otherworldly" experiences as my own hallucinations or delusions and go on with my day, usually never bringing it up again. |
| Personally, no I don't. It's hard for me to comprehend that when you die, you go into a different type of form that isn't physical. Like how bodies decay, animals will eat that and it'll fuel them so I can't see any other way that you could be alive again. However, I am open minded to different ways (dimensions, etc) where other animals/beings could be living. It bothers me that we can even think, but I think that's just brain activity and evolution that caused us to be able to do that. Not anything spiritual like souls. When people claim they see ghosts, it's most likely their brain playing tricks on them during or after. There are loads of times where I think I see something and am like, "it's a ghost" when in reality it's definitely me being scared or on edge since I have a lot of anxiety about ghosts and spirits, even when not believing in them. |
| i had those ghost seeing experience once but i still don't believe them |
| If they are, they better let me do them. Otherwise, what's the point |
 𝔚𝔞𝔫𝔫𝔞 𝔱𝔬𝔲𝔠𝔥 𝔶𝔬𝔲, 𝔚𝔞𝔫𝔱𝔦𝔫' 𝔶𝔬𝔲 𝔴𝔦𝔱𝔥 𝔞𝔩𝔩 𝔪𝔶 𝔪𝔦𝔤𝔥𝔱 ______________________ |
| ^ Lmao that comment above me, does that mean I'm afraid of cats?! no I'm pretty sure am not. I can understand that it some cases some could be down to hallucinations of certain individuals seeing something. But what's the explanation of multiple people seeing the same thing at time same time? or different people seeing the exact same entity over many years leading to positive identification of the entity? with many having not been aware of any hauntings or spirits at the location. |
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Ryuk9428 said: What kind of mental illness changes your voice and gives you freakish strength for a young girl? She literally refused to eat. How do you explain that? freakish strength is easily explained actually. the human brain limits your actual strength because your own muscles could break your bones and cause internal damage. people who have mental illnesses could have this limiter removed meaning they can uses there full strength. also voices can easily change look at voice actors. the japanese voice actor for edward elric is a girl despite the voice sounding masculine and there are men who can make there voices sound like a womans. one example of this is the singer Zhou Shen most ghost stories can be traced to none ghost stuff. chairs moving on there own often due to structural movement and disability. however I would neither confirm nor deny something like that. |
GrimAtramentJun 9, 2021 8:54 AM
| "among monsters and humans, there are only two types. Those who undergo suffering and spread it to others. And those who undergo suffering and avoid giving it to others." -Alice “Beauty is no quality in things themselves: It exists merely in the mind which contemplates them; and each mind perceives a different beauty.” David Hume “Evil is created when someone gives up on someone else. It appears when everyone gives up on someone as a lost cause and removes their path to salvation. Once they are cut off from everyone else, they become evil.” -Othinus  |
| Yes and there is one behind you right ndasojdsa jksalnnkc |
Meusnier said: I am sorry about the long delay. I could finally devote some time to give a proper reply to your questions and objections. Ah, do not worry. To be honest, when you said you would reply the other day, I was not expecting it to be that fast. Anyway, thank you for taking the time to reply. I read it almost immediately, but I have been feeling rather reluctant to write a reply because it might be more of an ideological difference above all, but since I have way more free time than usual today, I think I will give it a shot. Meusnier said: 149597871 said: I do not think that there is a fundamental difference here if one can track back the said influence to such a higher dimensional object.Could you elaborate? Is observing an entity from a higher dimension the same thing as observing its influence? Yeah, that is true. I am merely assuming that higher-dimensional beings cannot be directly observed; therefore, we will be unable to trace back the source, even though we could be able to experience the influence it might or might not exert. I have seen fancy hypotheses and even theories about how gravity would leak into the extra dimensions and whatnot, but virtually all of them were discarded recently, with the exception perhaps of what you are going to mention later in the post. Meusnier said: But the point here about ghosts is that there is no convincing proof that any "ghost activity" ever occurred, that is, any observed phenomenon could not be explained otherwise than by the one of ghosts. Which I guess is further elaborated here: That is true. I have not seen any proof either. "Could" and "otherwise" can be tricky words, however. The former merely says that there is a possibility for something to be the case. When we encounter a phenomenon that we cannot explain due to a lack of proof or sufficient evidence of its causation, the possibilities are nigh on infinite, and one can always say that there "could" be another explanation, regardless of what hypotheses or theories they are presented with. For example, ever since the latest theory was disproven, nobody knows exactly why bicycles work the way they work. It cannot be explained, but it could be explained. To be more specific: it cannot be currently explained, but it could be possibly explained. I can say "it is magic/ghosts/the force/etc.," but unless I provide proof, one can always counter me with a statement that "it could be explained otherwise," even though they are likely just as empty-handed when it comes to presenting the aforementioned evidence. Also, instead of trying to draw the line between ghost activities and everything else, I would rather prefer if we use the terms "rational" and "non-rational" (not the same thing as irrational) explanation instead. Ghost activity is just another name for things that could not be rationally explained. In a sense, you are not wrong, but if your definition of "ghost activity" is "any observed phenomenon could not be explained otherwise than by the work of ghosts," then I can say with confidence that we will never encounter such a phenomenon. We will have to manually disprove a potentially endless amount of rational possibilities before we are able to deem a phenomenon to be completely beyond any rational explanation. I will use the same example. If there is a rational explanation for bicycles, then 10, 20, or 1000 years from now, someone will eventually find it. However, if bicycles are indeed the work of ghosts, then even after a billion years, mankind will still be trying to come up with various explanations for it and will never be able to find or rather verify the real answer. All that regardless of whether ghosts truly exist or not. Finding a solution for this issue can be problematic. Meusnier said: I see now that I was too elliptic in this post for I had already dismissed the possibility of a world similar to the one in Abbot's Flatland. If we lived in a flat five-dimensional space, we would be able to directly observe abnormal phenomena that would not restrict to ghosts sighting (and not only from a given point on Earth). Truth be told, I still do not understand that last sentence. Perhaps it makes perfect sense in your mind, but to me, it still sounds a bit elliptical. I have not even mentioned the curvature of spacetime so far, but I can probably still work with this assumption if you elaborate. Meusnier said: However, string theory predicts (or rather assumes...) the existence of extra dimensions (say six of them: the model is therefore the product space of (3+1)-dimensional Minkowski space M and a six-dimensional compact manifold Y), but of a size comparable to the one of the Planck constant (10^(-35)), which is therefore impossible to observe as the inhabitants of Flatland could directly observe Spaceland (the point here is that ghost sightings can be observed with a bare eye). That is way too much information to compact in one sentence. First of all, what does "observe" even mean in this sort of conversation? "The inhabitants of flat land could directly observe Spaceland" does not help me understand (I have not read Flatland). I assume that the inhabitants of the 2D world could somehow "observe" the 3D world, but that already contradicts the entire premise on which my logic is built. Maybe you mean the opposite? Since you mentioned size, you probably mean the Planck length, I assume. Yes, the extra dimensions in string theory are small, curled up, and inaccessible. However, I am not sure why we are at string theory in the first place. You basically replaced my assumption with another one. It is a (convenient) dead-end for this conversation since it is not the theory of everything (or at least not yet), and I do not know about you, but I am not a string theorist myself. I can try to go more metaphysical and work around that, but I see no point in doing so. Meusnier said: Therefore, assuming that ghosts existed in some six-dimensional Calabi-Yau manifold, there would not be any obvious way for them (or some projections of them) to suddenly materialise or be observed (that does not seem physically possible either because of issues of conservation of mass). Assuming that they are higher dimensional does not help here, quite the contrary. That is very accurate. Fortunately, I do not make this assumption to begin with. I do not build my premise within the realm of string or similar theories. Instead, I start from scratch and work only with macroscopic/large dimensions. Unfortunately, addressing the latter part of this paragraph becomes fruitless. For the sake of the argument, would you follow my assumption (until it completely stops making any sense)? |
149597871Jun 17, 2021 12:49 AM
| If the definition of ghost is "soul of a dead person with lingering regrets," then that's a fat no. When a person dies, their soul goes along with them. If your definition of ghost is "an evil spirit," then yes. I also believe in demons. |
| I think it'd be cool if they did, but no I don't believe in them. I don't really believe in souls or anything like that. |
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| Yes because they could exist, even though I've never seen one before myself. |
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| I'm not really believe on them cuz i'm not seing them. |
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| The idea of ghosts is so deeply ingrained in humans, I'd be surprised if anyone could truly overcome it. |
| わかりました |
| i got raped by one 3 weeks ago when i was asleep 😱😱😱😱😭😭😭😭 but den relized dat i was jus sleep masturbatin while i was havin lewd dreams of goro sensei so no ghosts arent rel 😇😇😇 |
| I'm on the fence. I think most so-called paranormal encounters can be rationally explained, but I wouldn't rule out the existence of ghosts entirely. |
| No, I'm more of a science person than superstitious |
  「 𝕂𝕖𝕪 𝕥𝕙𝕒𝕥 𝕙𝕚𝕕𝕖𝕤 𝕥𝕙𝕖 𝕗𝕠𝕣𝕔𝕖𝕤 𝕠𝕗 𝕕𝕒𝕣𝕜𝕟𝕖𝕤𝕤, 𝕤𝕙𝕠𝕨 𝕞𝕖 𝕪𝕠𝕦𝕣 𝕥𝕣𝕦𝕖 𝕗𝕠𝕣𝕞 」 |
| Yes.I saw twice my dead grandfather or his ghost maybe it was looking exacly like him and I saw him only for a moment how he was looking at me .This was last year when I paid a visit to my grandma's for a week.Saw him twice and was hearing somebody's breathing every night.It wasn't grandma cause she's very old and she's living in the small I was the only person who was in the big house so that's why I believe there is no other logical explanation for this. |
DonAngelonOct 25, 2021 2:46 AM
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| no i don't think they are. i believe aliens exist tho |
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