Kami_sama_ said: Of course you are right, but that is no justification for allowing such content to exist in the first place. That's like saying "taking illegal drugs yourself is better than forcefully drugging others". Of course it is, but both are illegal actions nonetheless. Poor comparison is poor. :/ Illegal drugs are illegal because they are harmful. Drawings are not illegal though and they never should be. They are NOT harmful. There is no proof that they are. |
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| guys, stop responding to obvious troll threads. kthnx bye |
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Daniel_Naumov said: You cannot be wrong with those statements. You are wrong in assuming the kids are not harmed, though. Latent criminality arises with the over-indulgence in the said questionable material. Many offenders only became offenders and violated children/adults after having spent considerable time "boiling" in the content of mentioned origin. It does not alleviate them their mental suffering and urges, it actually reinforces them and their conviction about enjoying them... until the point they cannot control themselves. Oh I would like proof of THAT, please. That's such BS. Talk to ANYONE who is into lolicon, they will tell you "real children are gross". I even did extensive research on this whole argument "does lolicon cause real crimes" and the result was "inconclusive". |
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Kami_sama_ said: TolkienFan365 said: Well again functionally speaking it isn't child porn unless there is actual child abuse or it's a realistic depiction which it doesn't qualify under. A child support hotline had to put out a statement not to report stuff like that because it doesn't qualify as abuse which I agree with. Plus the problem is you don't have to go to the lolicon/shota argument this eventually just leads to older characters in their teens being accused and the problem with that anime characters rarely age up or at all in a distinguished way. That's why adult characters have been accused of being pedo bait like I saw someone on twitter accuse Rumi Usagiyama (bunny girl from MHA) of being pedo bait despite being 27 and having the body she does. So yeah this gets kinda insane eventually when even moe styles or even those that dress in lolita fashion or adults who cosplay lolicons characters get called that. It helps to have a good ability to distinguish fiction from reality. I don't have a problem with "problematic fantasies" granted a lot of that stuff doesn't really do much for me (the fetishes I have a pretty wholesome) because it takes up unnecessary resources, there is no indication of contributing to it plus in an even different cases people who draw it for psychological reasons (where there is proof that it helps trauma) would get in trouble. Of course actual pedos and other people who have issues need help and if they refuse it prison but I don't correlate that stuff with it. I guess this is not only a hentai/ecchi problem and more of an animation/art in general problem. Since art can always use the scapegoat that the character's appearance was due to creative expression and not with immoral sexual desire in mind during their creation. The problem with this argument again is where it can apply. In the west Cuteness is something that almost always is attributed to being child so if it's sexualized it's seen that way even though it's consenting adults or people who want to feel smaller or more dependent on the one they love in play or in dynamics they fully can consent to and have control of. The other issue of course is again bodies of men and women that are on the smaller petite side or they try to get it to look that way. You have porn stars that market themselves that way. The morality behind going after pedos is that one children sexually are completely undeveloped. Fact is getting them involved in that will be traumatic. Two teens can feel sexual desire but mentally are unable to make sexual decisions and because of their age an adult can easily manipulate or control them or get them into situations they aren't ready for. We can agree on that as a society. The problem with art is no one has been harmed, no one rights have been violated. The connection between causation isn't very well known with some studies arguing there is little. Regardless that is the only way you could get my mind on the right to draw said art by proving without a shadow of a doubt that there is an obvious correlation to causing it but there isn't. Also when it comes to fetish content again you would have to define immoral sexual desire because again to me that is anything that is actually illegal or that violates the right of another. Rape hentai comes from someone who enjoys non consent play or fantasies and often that just plays into other BDSM desires to have control stripped away as a form of relaxation for instance for some people it's coping. That is entirely different from an actual rapist in intent based on the most important factor sexual consent and care for the well being of another. Things like age play or DDLG/MDLB often just have a desire for a more nurtring or wholesome take of power giving in a sexual or even non sexual way despite the infantilistic nature of the fetish. Though against it's adults consenting and adults find other consenting adults attractive engaged in that which is totally fine. No harm is being done. No one is being exploited two knowing adults are consenting to a fantasy just like the school girl fantasy that is common in porn and also here where the art style is hard to distinguish or it's RPed by another adult. Resources need to be used to identify and deal with predators and considering how often people find out how bad the MAP network on twitter is they obviously need to get better and faster at dealing with and finding these people. |
BilboBaggins365Apr 15, 2020 12:05 PM
Kami_sama_ said: Chiibi said: Poor comparison is poor. :/ Illegal drugs are illegal because they are harmful. Drawings are not illegal though and they never should be. They are NOT harmful. There is no proof that they are. If a man is consistently beating his beaver off to a drawing of a six year old girl, appeasing his own perverted sexual desire, I would consider that nearly as harmful to their mind as using illegal drugs. As both would create an illegal addiction that warps their perception of society. Honestly if an adult who is supposed to be mature wants to kill himself off illegal drugs he is free to do so. No different than someone who wants to commit suicide it's their right to their life. They aren't violation anyone's else basic rights by doing so. That isn't really a good example as what we are talking about is stuff where someone is violating another's right. |
| Damn this thread turned to hell pretty quickly. And I don't even think OP was troll-baiting or anything. What was this thread supposed to be about again? |
 Latest reviews: Wonder Egg Priority and A Couple of Cukoos |
Kami_sama_ said: Chiibi said: Poor comparison is poor. :/ Illegal drugs are illegal because they are harmful. Drawings are not illegal though and they never should be. They are NOT harmful. There is no proof that they are. If a man is consistently beating his beaver off to a drawing of a six year old girl, appeasing his own perverted sexual desire, I would consider that nearly as harmful to their mind as using illegal drugs. As both would create an illegal addiction that warps their perception of society. Again, NO PROOF of that....that only sounds like paranoia. It's f*cked up sure, (actually I've never come across fans calling six-year-olds "hot" myself) but saying "it will cause an addiction" and "warps their perception" is ridiculous, unbased assumption on your part. |
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Kami_sama_ said: TolkienFan365 said: Well again functionally speaking it isn't child porn unless there is actual child abuse or it's a realistic depiction which it doesn't qualify under. A child support hotline had to put out a statement not to report stuff like that because it doesn't qualify as abuse which I agree with. Plus the problem is you don't have to go to the lolicon/shota argument this eventually just leads to older characters in their teens being accused and the problem with that anime characters rarely age up or at all in a distinguished way. That's why adult characters have been accused of being pedo bait like I saw someone on twitter accuse Rumi Usagiyama (bunny girl from MHA) of being pedo bait despite being 27 and having the body she does. So yeah this gets kinda insane eventually when even moe styles or even those that dress in lolita fashion or adults who cosplay lolicons characters get called that. It helps to have a good ability to distinguish fiction from reality. I don't have a problem with "problematic fantasies" granted a lot of that stuff doesn't really do much for me (the fetishes I have a pretty wholesome) because it takes up unnecessary resources, there is no indication of contributing to it plus in an even different cases people who draw it for psychological reasons (where there is proof that it helps trauma) would get in trouble. Of course actual pedos and other people who have issues need help and if they refuse it prison but I don't correlate that stuff with it. I guess this is not only a hentai/ecchi problem and more of an animation/art in general problem. Since art can always use the scapegoat that the character's appearance was due to creative expression and not with immoral sexual desire in mind during their creation. It doesn't fit well in my mind personally, but I can see why legally it can not be bound and why other's choose to dismiss it. Though this makes for a perfect example as to why the perverted anime stigma is the way it is. In Japan their age of consent is marginally lower than most western countries, but their art which is synonymous with anime where they depict characters from a Japanese legal perspective, instead of an American/Western legal perspective. But this legality is blurred when art is involved as scapegoats can be used (as I said before). That last paragraph is actually notably false. Japan's federal age of consent is 13 but almost every prefecture works the same as say the United States where they establish their own age (usually ranging from 16 to 18, again the same as in the US). Edit: In fact due to the interpretation and wording of some of the laws it can effectively be as high as 20 because civil law defines children as anyone under 20. |
GamerDLMApr 15, 2020 12:19 PM
Daniel_Naumov said: Kami_sama_ said: If a man is consistently beating his beaver off to a drawing of a six year old girl, appeasing his own perverted sexual desire, I would consider that nearly as harmful to their mind as using illegal drugs. As both would create an illegal addiction that warps their perception of society. That does fit the general meaning of "addiction". However, not all addiction have proven to be extensively harmful in a direct way: while drug addiction affects the body AND the mind, the gaming addiction, for example, merely impacts the time available to the person who would rather ravel in the fictional world of videogames, and, as a result, their success in the society. But it does not have a direct negative effect on their well-being. This is the case with the over-indulgence into said questionable material as well. While not directly harmful, it is, just as any other addiction, making human being a slave... regardless of all the implications it brings with self. And who cares? It doesn't matter if it is or isn't harmful to the person's well being it only matters if they are directly harming someone else or it contributes to causing people to do said thing. People have the full right to engage in behaviors that could be incredibly dangerous like gambling, drugs, alchohol, pornographic, gaming, food and every other vice you can think of. The only case is they aren't harming someone else directly in the process (mental strain isn't the same). The police's job is to protect citizens not to ensure that they make good life choices. You have other services for that as well as family and friends and your own will to ensure you don't get sucked into something like that. For something to be illegal there has to an obvious harm otherwise might as well ban anything that could lead to an abusive behavior might as well turn this decade into literally the 20s again and bring back Prohibition since it leads to domestic abuse (one of the biggest arguments behind the movement). |
BilboBaggins365Apr 15, 2020 12:15 PM
TolkienFan365 said: For something to be illegal there has to an obvious harm otherwise might as well ban anything that could lead to an abusive behavior might as well turn this decade into literally the 20s again and bring back Prohibition since it leads to domestic abuse (one of the biggest arguments behind the movement). Yes, exactly. Again, this whole thing boils down to "Thing makes me uncomfortable so it must be erased/illegal/banned." attitude that people adopted in....like the last ten years? Nobody seemed to care in 2010. What the hell even happened? |
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Peaceful_Critic said: Zeroflamez said: When I say it resembles blackface, I'm not saying it is actual blackface. I'm saying the physical characteristics of the character are similar to those shown in actual blackface performances. Aka the word "resembles" instead of saying "it is". It may resemble black face but it really isn't. Mr Popo isn't black. He isn't even human. He's an Alien. Garterbelt's face may resemble black face somewhat but he cannot be "black face" because he is black. You're right. They do resemble Black face. However people are really thinking about these kinds of things way too critically in my opinion. I'm not saying that authors couldn't start to research more before they create characters of races they aren't familiar with like Kubo and Kishimoto did for Bleach and Naruto. People just have to learn to laugh at these kind of stupid things Anime does because most times it isn't coming from a place of hate. It's coming from a place of just not knowing or not thinking it is necessarily bad. When I see Chinese characters with the fu man chu mustache and narrow eyes and buck teeth I laugh. When I see Black characters portrayed stereo typically I laugh. When I see white characters portrayed with blue eyes, blonde hair and throwing out engrish I laugh. I know these are inaccurate uneducated representations and I don't take them seriously at all. As should everyone else. |
Daniel_Naumov said: https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/0047-2786.00029 https://www.dianarussell.com/porn_as_a_cause_of_rape.html https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20170926-is-porn-harmful-the-evidence-the-myths-and-the-unknowns This should provide you with enough "proof", if you like. I would not recommend the second one though, written by the bad kind of "feminist". Lol good job nothing here even hinted towards loli characters in anime. There's no doubt in my mind that too much LIVE ACTION pornography could have a negative effect on someone as real human beings are involved so it'd be WAY harder to separate them from a fictional world. @Kami-sama same goes for your statement. :/ Anime characters =/= real pornography. |
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BlakexEkalb said: LMAO what is happening in this thread. We went from issues with the anime community to talking about banning drawings and Mr. Popo resembling black face. I'm dying this is hilarious. the *ahem* problematic toxicity spilled from the other thread into this one |
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Daniel_Naumov said: Chiibi said: Oh I would like proof of THAT, please. That's such BS. Talk to ANYONE who is into lolicon, they will tell you "real children are gross". I even did extensive research on this whole argument "does lolicon cause real crimes" and the result was "inconclusive". https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/0047-2786.00029 https://www.dianarussell.com/porn_as_a_cause_of_rape.html https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20170926-is-porn-harmful-the-evidence-the-myths-and-the-unknowns This should provide you with enough "proof", if you like. I would not recommend the second one though, written by the bad kind of "feminist". TolkienFan365 said: And who cares? It doesn't matter if it is or isn't harmful to the person's well being it only matters if they are directly harming someone else or it contributes to causing people to do said thing. People have the full right to engage in behaviors that could be incredibly dangerous like gambling, drugs, alchohol, pornographic, gaming, food and every other vice you can think of. The only case is they aren't harming someone else directly in the process (mental strain isn't the same). The police's job is to protect citizens not to ensure that they make good life choices. You have other services for that as well as family and friends and your own will to ensure you don't get sucked into something like that. For something to be illegal there has to an obvious harm otherwise might as well ban anything that could lead to an abusive behavior might as well turn this decade into literally the 20s again and bring back Prohibition since it leads to domestic abuse (one of the biggest arguments behind the movement). Social institutions, compassionate and responsible people and countrymen do care if their brethren or sometimes even strangers are suffering. Understanding, love and harmony are the pillars of the world of tomorrow. People who show no concern for the other, while sharing the reality with them, will find themselves completely out of place. No I don't really care I mean maybe I misanthrope probably but seriously the people that talk about the public good and empathy for their common man are some of the greatest tyrants and mass murderers in history just look at the French and Russian Revolutions. The road to hell is paved through good intentions. One must ensure they aren't going off down the wrong one in the name of virtue. Lots of things I disagree with that i think should be legal because I know banning it up opens up a lot of issues mainly with regards to personal freedoms and giving horrible people legal rights to do horrible things in the name of protection. After going through the BBC article they literally pointed out that it does have little connection to violence, the case of it causing disfunction is limited and probably not true. The cases of them committing an actual sexually aggressive act the person was already sexually aggressive before being exposed. The argument on relationships can have a lot to do with communication or the view of what is allowed in marriage as some see that as cheating. The argument on their self life actually indicates that watching porn with your partner could lead to a healthy sex life. Most everything else has to do with porn portraying unrealistic situations and not clarifying the fantasy like gay men not being protected because they don't see it in porn. So once again people who can't distinguish reality from ideals I agree people shouldn't get sex education from porn. Plus if it was the case how come countries like Saudi Arabia despite their terrible treatment for women aren't better since they have a more hardline stance against porn. Rape shouldn't be common in those societies but it is. There are studies looking at post war communist states that showed decreases in those activities once there was less regulations. The BBC article you linked undermined the other two you linked and there is a lot of other studies that say it leads to a decrease in sexual violence and rape. So to me once again this seems like a debated issue. You probably should read some of the articles when you link them because the studies in there don't explicitly condemn it all. Honestly again seems like many other vices basically being incredibly bad depending on some circumstances but if controlled should be okay maybe even healthy. Yeah there are people that have terrible porn addictions they need help (which isn't the job of the police to enforce) and and again addictive personalities are just going to find something else they have psychological problem that needs to be dealt with. It's hardly going to matter if you illegalize it and again if the common "good" is the goal everything needs to be regulated down to food consumption (can't have people eating themselves to death. If you want a society like that you are free to but to me that just sounds like an easy abusable 1984. |
BilboBaggins365Apr 15, 2020 12:41 PM
BlakexEkalb said: Chiibi said: Lol good job nothing here even hinted towards loli characters in anime. There's no doubt in my mind that too much LIVE ACTION pornography could have a negative effect on someone as real human beings are involved so it'd be WAY harder to separate them from a fictional world. I know I'm jumping in on the conversation and probably ignoring what has been already previously stated, but are we talking about lolis as a WHOLE or just lolis that are underage? Since plenty of people have a different definition of what a loli is, I consider loli to be any character that has child-like qualities which include but are not limited to shorter stature, smaller chest, etc. Just go with "any character who is under 18". Because finding teenaged characters sexy is a crime that people here think should be punishable by law, apparently. Because they are just THAT bored. |
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Kami_sama_ said: Lol it was only me, seeing as OP explicitly referenced me and my other thread as sources of toxicity I thought I might have some fun here. As someone else once labeled me, I am the Stalin of MAL. I will bring all those who argue with my claims into my 'Anti-Ecchi Gulag of High Art' so they can be transformed into justice warriors. That was a joke lol because someone had accused you of being a SJW. I hope you didn't take that seriously. |
Chiibi said: Just go with "any character who is under 18". Because finding teenaged characters sexy is a crime that people here think should be punishable by law, apparently. Because they are just THAT bored. disgusting reprobates try to mask their degeneracy by drawing their underage fantasy girls with giant boobs and average height but they're not fooling anyone. Soon, the western mainstream will alleviate anime of this sickness. |
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Daniel_Naumov said: Chiibi said: Lol good job nothing here even hinted towards loli characters in anime. There's no doubt in my mind that too much LIVE ACTION pornography could have a negative effect on someone as real human beings are involved so it'd be WAY harder to separate them from a fictional world. @Kami-sama same goes for your statement. :/ Anime characters =/= real pornography. By all means, you may keep denying the basic human psychology and fundamental triggers and connections between mind and action, there are serious academic institutions which will make sure this is not a mass misconception. TolkienFan365 said: No I don't really care I mean maybe I misanthrope probably but seriously the people that talk about the public good and empathy for their common man are some of the greatest tyrants and mass murderers in history just look at the French and Russian Revolutions. The road to hell is paved through good intentions. One must ensure they aren't going off down the wrong one in the name of virtue. Lots of things I disagree with that i think should be legal because I know banning it up opens up a lot of issues mainly with regards to personal freedoms and giving horrible people legal rights to do horrible things in the name of protection. After going through the BBC article they literally pointed out that it does have little connection to violence, the case of it causing disfunction is limited and probably not true. The cases of them committing an actual sexually aggressive act the person was already sexually aggressive before being exposed. The argument on relationships can have a lot to do with communication or the view of what is allowed in marriage as some see that as cheating. The argument on their self life actually indicates that watching porn with your partner could lead to a healthy sex life. Most everything else has to do with porn portraying unrealistic situations and not clarifying the fantasy like gay men not being protected because they don't see it in porn. So once again people who can't distinguish reality from ideals I agree people shouldn't get sex education from porn. Plus if it was the case how come countries like Saudi Arabia despite their terrible treatment for women aren't better since they have a more hardline stance against porn. Rape shouldn't be common in those societies but it is. There are studies looking at post war communist states that showed decreases in those activities once there was less regulations. The BBC article you linked undermined the other two you linked and there is a lot of other studies that say it leads to a decrease in sexual violence and rape. So to me once again this seems like a debated issue. You probably should read some of the articles when you link them because the studies in there don't explicitly condemn it all. Oh, these articles were not meant for you and I am sorry you had to waste your time looking through them. Anyway, we were talking about the human capacity for compassion and the bright future. Do not be mislead and bursting into other's conversations is considered sort of rude, kind of. ??? Pretty sure they were to also cut down my point that it does cause harm but the BBC article does undermine many of those points but whatever. Plus from looking it seems like an issue that is still very debated kinda like where video game/film violence was at one point (and people still cling to). Also you are on a public forum on a public thread you want a private conversation that is what Dms are for or commenting on a profile. You are rude to accuse me of literally using the forum as intended which is that anyone is open to read and respond. |
BilboBaggins365Apr 15, 2020 12:47 PM
BlakexEkalb said: Chiibi said: Just go with "any character who is under 18". Because finding teenaged characters sexy is a crime that people here think should be punishable by law, apparently. Because they are just THAT bored. Are we going by mentally under 18 or physically under 18? Also I do find it quite funny how if you find someone who is attractive and they are, what, 15-18, it's seen as a bad thing. Like, does turning 18 automatically make you not susceptible in finding certain girls attractive? I can post any number of pictures of girls that, while they look older than 18, are in the age range I gave. BOTH are bad according to the FBI of Anime on MAL. :/ I know right...couldn't agree more. @Daniel_Naumov If someone really cannot separate anime and real people, then yes, by all means lock them up. We call that "mental disorder". |
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Kami_sama_ said: TolkienFan365 said: That was a joke lol because someone had accused you of being a SJW. I hope you didn't take that seriously. Well they titled me as such, so I am as such. Seeing as from what I have seen, after I posted my thread, two threads have popped up that stated me and in-explicitly as sources of toxicity on MAL. So from the hate being poured my way where ever I go I must be public enemy number #1. No you just added fuel to a fire of a topic that is already super heated you hardly are the sole reason don't give yourself so much credit. This issue is pretty old. You can make innocent threads about where people can talk about what they like if that is an issue. Honestly while yeah I didn't like your evil otaku posts that inflamed it my problem was mostly with the other two in that thread. |
Kami_sama_ said: Chiibi said: Lol good job nothing here even hinted towards loli characters in anime. There's no doubt in my mind that too much LIVE ACTION pornography could have a negative effect on someone as real human beings are involved so it'd be WAY harder to separate them from a fictional world. @Kami-sama same goes for your statement. :/ Anime characters =/= real pornography. Anime porn == real pornography. Definition of pornography: " printed or visual material containing the explicit description or display of sexual organs or activity, intended to stimulate sexual excitement. " It's real pornography but legally speaking drawn content does have legal defenses unlike "real" content not even just in Japan. In America it can qualify under the obscene law which is hard to apply and from some cases brought up it seems even the jury/legal courts are having trouble using or defining it it's almost only used in relation to this if the person already broke the law usually by being involved in actual CP. There was a pretty good video on this because of another art drama things that started. |
| If they're Americans then they've been told that sex is naughty. Ecchi makes anime a lot better and it wouldn't be anime without it. The Japanese are fearless regarding sex which is what makes anime/manga so much better than the current western canon. Disney recently censored some actress's ass in an 80's movie. That's how far and crazy America takes its 16th century Christianity. BTW Jesus never said no tiddy. I read the book and unfortunately people invented morality of Jesus after the fact. "Jesus said this..." "Christianity says that..." They just use Christianity as an excuse for their lame brain conservatism and fear. That's why old people go to church---fear. And who is the almighty, wealthy patron of churches? Fearful old people. When they were 20, oh, tiddy! But now they're 80? I don't have sex, no tiddy! You take the boy out of the anime and what do you have: boring medieval Christian western canon. Awful, predictable, scared to death of sex like it's the devil. Oh but violence? YAS QUEEN. Meanwhile in anime Japan they made a movie about actual violence against people in WWII (In This Corner of the World). Profound. While we worship Rambo and John Wayne. Shoot first and shoot Indians first and ask questions later. We're violent, mean and dumb. And those gays are naughty! Whip em' good! Let's get transgender bathroom bills! Honestly when you read manga and watch anime you wonder why your culture became so primitive--and it's down to Christianity's insufferable influence. They used Jesus and the word 'God' to strike fear into the hearts of society and force it to do its will. Meanwhile they were sodomizing children because nobody is immune to sexual drive. Japan has common sense. That's what I love about Japan. It's a lovely 'Swamp' (Silence). |
Kami_sama_ said: TolkienFan365 said: It's real pornography but legally speaking drawn content does have legal defenses unlike "real" content not even just in Japan. In America it can qualify under the obscene law which is hard to apply and from some cases brought up it seems even the jury/legal courts are having trouble using or defining it. There was a pretty good video on this because of another art drama things that started. Yeah I understand, but I was just responding to his idea that only live action pornography can have a negative effect on people. Porn is porn, and porn will have negative effects on people regardless. There is a reason why hentai/animated porn is as popular as it is, since it is a just as powerful sexual stimulant as live action porn. Yeah like of course it can any vice can almost anything actually theoretically can have a negative impact the problem you have to show a correlation caused by it that it can violate someone elses rights. Smoking may be bad but people have the right to it. To me this is still a very debated topic and that people don't agree on. |
Kami_sama_ said: TolkienFan365 said: It's real pornography but legally speaking drawn content does have legal defenses unlike "real" content not even just in Japan. In America it can qualify under the obscene law which is hard to apply and from some cases brought up it seems even the jury/legal courts are having trouble using or defining it. There was a pretty good video on this because of another art drama things that started. Yeah I understand, but I was just responding to his idea that only live action pornography can have a negative effect on people. Porn is porn, perhaps not legally, but nevertheless porn will have negative effects on people. There is a reason why hentai/animated porn is as popular as it is, since it is a just as powerful sexual stimulant as live action porn. That's weird....as live action porn gifs REPULSE me...but every time I see hentai, I just laugh because it's so damn stupid. I'm amazed people find hentai "sexy" when it's so easy to make fun of. Also I'm female. |
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| What a comeback. Op used a beat up horse like the ecchi anime stuff and made it into a golden goose of a thread. Well, what can I say, ecchi is great |
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| Anyway honestly after that last thread I am done on this topic. You guys have fun I think have exhausted my desire this conversation for another year. |
Kami_sama_ said: Also, stating that you are Female doesn't do anything affect my perception of your argument, I already noticed it when I looked on your profile when you first replied to me. But you said "his" when you were referring to me, didn't you? :/ |
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