| I always see this meme online about how "men would rather do this thing and that thing" instead of going to therapy but really what do you think about therapy and by therapy I mean the psychological ones not physical therapy. While I do believe that mental illnesses is real and not just a matter of "feeling sad" I really don't see how talking about something that you literally can't do anything about is going to help you solve the problem and if you can solve the problem through talking about it to someone, aren't you essentially just paying someone to be a professional friend to you because that's how I see it and honestly it smells sketchy af to me. But what do you think? Is therapy a medical scam |
| talk therapy is not just about talking about your problems afaik it will teach you things like cognitive defusion or self distancing techniques that will make you separate yourself from your unwanted thoughts for example but ye talk therapy is said to be 50% effective only but still better than nothing if you have the money that is |
| it helps with coping skills if you dont have any good ones, it helps with alternate/different attitudes/thinking patterns if you havent thought of a good one yet, it helps if you need support and you lack that as well. but i will also say it helps to have a good match with the therapist and you might have to through a few if you cant talk to them properly. its just another tool but not the whole picture, you still have to figure out things on your own after that. |
| I think therapy is overall is a net positive. It is certainly better than doing nothing about your issues anyways. If people don't actively seek help, than they are bond to make their situation worse and potentially spiral out of control. I am taking about mostly talk therapy and medication that is required for extreme cases like schizophrenia, personality disorders, etc. But haphazardly giving out addictive anti-depressant medications that mess with the different receptors of your brain when it's not really required is really dangerous. Missing to take the meds after getting addicted to them, will have severe consequences too. It's fine if a therapy session just seems like someone being a professional friend, often times, that is exactly what is needed. Someone to talk to, vent and explore your own brain to figure out yourself better in order to deal with your issues better. People with mental issues, are often avoided afterall. They are seen as, well crazy and have no one to talk to at all. A therapist helps in making people understand themselves better, or at least they give a push. I haven't personally tried therapy, but I talk to my family when i have issues and they have been very supportive in my case. So i don't feel like i need any therapy. Besides i don't think i have any mental illness, maybe some degree of attention issues. I have dyslexia, which is not really a mental issue, but just a different way the brain processes information. |
tsukareruJan 18, 10:34 AM
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| it helped me so i generally recommend it to everybody been in therapy with the same therapist for years on and off recently i been struggling again, once i get back from my semester abroad im back to seeing my therapist it helped me get off drugs, live unmedicated, be more aware of mental health and so many things that my brain does, able to form better relationships, be more assertive and know what i want and know what emotions i feel and how to deal with them, helped me with figuring out my needs, and goals, things i care about, things i want to do or dont want to do its not that the therapist tells me what to do, there are no instructions, its me sitting down in this room and i just talk, they just might ask me a question, mostly it is me going over things, my thoughts, questioning them, analyzing them, and most importantly i get to say my thoughts out loud, which is like important to validate them whether theyre sensible or not i wouldnt be able to do it if i werent talking to a therapist, this is not something i would be able to figure out it myself while in my room alone or even talking to my friends that struggle themselves - i was only able to figure it out on my own while talking to a therapist in a therapist office worked for me, i literally turned my life around, therapy is abt u and not the therapist, i dont even view them as a person, they cant have an opinion, theyre just some entitity thats present in the room while im talking whats up and how i feel about it, therapist office is a space where i talk to myself, they might just help with asking a question, just why and how is enough i learned so much, so i was able to save myself and recover |
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| First off, some people just need to vent. They don't have anyone to seriously confide in. It's different than just telling a friend, since a therapist is an outside and (hopefully) unbiased source. Also, therapy is not just for talking. It's also to help you learn new coping skills, new ways of viewing your situation, and how to challenge whatever may be bothering you and the connected thoughts, as well as try to find the root of why that thing is bothering you. Probably one of the most common and successful forms of therapy is exposure therapy, which can be applied to many different mental illnesses, such as social phobia, general anxiety, obsessive-compulsive disorder, and even some personality disorders. My experience with therapy in the last eight or so years has been very positive. Aside from just normal therapy, I also tried dialectical behavioral therapy, which helps tons, even in my daily life today, even though I ended the temporary therapy about four or so years ago. It's a combination of group and individual therapy, to help you change your ways of dealing with stressful situations, coping skills, communication skills, how to handle your emotions, etc etc. |
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| Therapy can be good or bad for some people, it just depends on the situation. I will say though that the therapist themselves will play a big role on whether the therapy will be successful or not. In my personal experience though going to a therapist made things a lot worse. When I was younger I was suffering with a lot of mental health problems, mainly gender dysphoria. Instead of helping me cope with it in a healthy way my therapist just made my situation worse by promoting my metal health problems and putting me on a lot of unnecessary pills. My family and friends helped me get out of the bad situation I was in so even though I still suffer with gender dysphoria its at least a little easier on me. Still though just because some people had bad experiences with therapists doesn't mean it's not for everyone, so if you think therapy will help with whatever you are going through you should definitely go. If you do decide not to go to therapy make sure you have a plan on how to deal with your problem though or else you won't be getting anywhere. |
| When a pancake lover does something: "Outrageous vicious crime" When a waffle lover does something: "That means it is not illegal" Quotes - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ld_HIM667Do&t=2822s |
| Men are less likely to talk about their psychological problems to friends or/and family nevermind a therapist. They also suffer from higher rates of suicide so talking about problems rather than bottling up problems clearly helps. I would also add it is not just psychotherapy that is effective but also psychiatry. I know Psychiatry is an even more controversial topic than regular therapy and it is littered with scandals but despite its shortcomings, I believe there is a place for taking medications particularly if the issue is severe. As others have already said, there are good therapists and bad therapists ditto for psychiatrists. Key is you need to keep your wits and always get a second opinion if your current practitioner seems to be giving you wonky advice. There is also much to be said about finding one that you gel with naturally. At the end of the day, you are trusting someone with your health so best to go with what you feel is a comfortable fit. In fact, this type of advice could easily apply to physiological issues as well. I don't think the mind or the body should be treated differently. If you have an issue don't be afraid to contact a doctor and take medication if necessary. On the medication front it is always wise to ask about the side-effects do some background research before taking any major steps. |
| I don't care as long as I get drugs... |
| I think psychological therapy only works in select cases. If you are ugly, and get treated poorly; no amount of that therapy will change anything. I think therapy is more so for women. DBDR is a good example of how useless therapy is for sub fives. It is ultimately up to the individual to improve their mental perceptions if they are feeling down. A lot of people adopt the bad idea of never giving up which only works in fiction. Lol Physical therapy on the other hand makes a lot more sense. Funny enough, I think anime and videogames are a lot more positive cheaper copes to therapy for sub fives. |
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| From years of talking to strangers and friends with psychotherapists and/or psychiatrists and my mom seeing a counselor and me having spoken to psychotherapists online and also having seen a psychologist I can absolutely say the mainstream of psychotherapy and psychiatry is terrible ranging from barely helpful to actually extremely harmful. Actually good therapists are very much a rarity. You don't even have to take my word for it. Here is an ex psychotherapist. He has a ton of videos like this. |
Reply to vasipi4946
I don't care as long as I get drugs...
| @vasipi4946 This will go down as a vasipi4946 classic. |
| When a pancake lover does something: "Outrageous vicious crime" When a waffle lover does something: "That means it is not illegal" Quotes - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ld_HIM667Do&t=2822s |
| It's only effective if you actually listen to what they have to say, and actually want to change. I think most people who say these things don't want to change, and that's why it would be considered a scam by them. |
 This ground is soiled by those before me and their lies. I dare not look up for on me I feel their eyes |
| its not its just that sometimes you can therapy yourself xD |
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Reply to traed
From years of talking to strangers and friends with psychotherapists and/or psychiatrists and my mom seeing a counselor and me having spoken to psychotherapists online and also having seen a psychologist I can absolutely say the mainstream of psychotherapy and psychiatry is terrible ranging from barely helpful to actually extremely harmful. Actually good therapists are very much a rarity.
You don't even have to take my word for it. Here is an ex psychotherapist. He has a ton of videos like this.
You don't even have to take my word for it. Here is an ex psychotherapist. He has a ton of videos like this.
traed said: From years of talking to strangers and friends with psychotherapists and/or psychiatrists and my mom seeing a counselor and me having spoken to psychotherapists online and also having seen a psychologist I can absolutely say the mainstream of psychotherapy and psychiatry is terrible ranging from barely helpful to actually extremely harmful. Actually good therapists are very much a rarity. Traed is right again. Long-term therapy is useless and a scam. Will probably be seen as quackery/silly in future centuries. Like how they used to measure your skull... or astrology lol At best, and this is all hypothesis so I could be wrong, imo a little bit of therapy might be good for: (1) abused kids/teens to find out what's bothering them if they don't admit it. (2) people in denial after a tragic event might benefit from it temporarily to understand what's happened. Like say, someone who won't believe something bad even took place. That would be very rare too, after most tragic events in a person's life, the person accepts it as reality even if they don't like it and struggle. Sadly that's when therapy is assigned to them. And I think it actually makes things worse and harder to move on since they keep reliving it! Now, on the contrary: I do wonder about ppl who have little human contact, even online, and who actually desire contact and have trauma of some kind unresolved. Perhaps they may benefit from therapy if this isolation is causing depression compounded with other trauma. For instance, they are reliving the trauma in an unhealthy, isolated manner, rather than moving from it through action or interaction with others. Perhaps for those ppl, the short term or periodic therapy could be a net gain in their life. I'm not sure, but I doubt long term would be good for this kind of person, as it seems like it may create a dependent relationship. Also periodic therapy might be helpful so individuals can be assured if their perspective is wrong or not. I'm talking one session a year so we can know if an individual is literally understanding reality or not after abuse or loss. That could assist with moving on from a painful event. From my own experience, after a very bad breakup, I was recommended therapy to "feel better". The ex had told me I was abusive even though I didn't think I was. After explaining the full situation to the therapist, she explained that the ex was actually the abusive one! She pointed out I was manipulated and didn't fully understand what had happened (I guess I was gaslit, as they say). I kind of already knew that, but hearing it from a neutral party was helpful a bit for me to relieve me of some guilt and might have helped me move on sooner. Now things are 100% obvious in hindsight. Since then hearing the stories of other men, it seems to be a common situation with abusive and manipulative partners lol. Anyway, the rest of the therapy was a tremendous waste! Didn't help at all. Actually hurt more lol. One therapy session to understand the proper perspective would have been enough. I was also put into therapy on and off since I was a teen, it's never helped either, only made me feel worse reliving shit; only action and time helps to move on from trauma and difficult situations. |
Shishio-kunJan 18, 2:55 PM
| Therapy is not only talking or being a "Hired Friend", friends not always will say a negative thing about you, because they don't want to hurt you. And that negative thing might be the reason of why you're having a problem which you want to solve. Not to mention that alot of people can't deal with problems as they don't want to speak about their emotions, feelings, problems with their families, friends and trusted people, which leads into the need of therapist who has a code/codex [forgot the name of it] which doesn't allow him to reveal your problem to anyone else. But obviously I wouldn't be myself to not just pin out some historical stuff here ain't it? Psychotherapy is something which existed from Ancient times or even earlier, despite not being called like that. In Ancient Egypt there were sleep temples which most likely treated the psychological problems, manye of them affecting the sleeping process, such as insomnia etc. After all it isn't a modern day problem. The priests from the temple would interpret the dreams and try to help the people who seek help [Ain't it sound familiar? Falling nightmares having a specific subcouncious fear/problem/meaning, the one which I remember is when you have a dream/nightmare about losing teeths it might mean that you have a complex or being afrad of looking bad etc. ]. Egyptians and Greeks doctors have described detailed symptoms of such things as brain fever and many mental/other type of illness, some of them were even able to relate the potential cause problem which in nowadays we know to be one of the factors such as alcohol addiction. And it leads through many Ancient civilisations, toward Middle Ages and so on till nowadays. If therapy/psychoterapy would be a 100% scam, it most likely wouldn't survive till today [Even if alot of non positive stuff are also existing from these times till today, best ex. are some stereotypes which come directly from Ancient Egypt, or maybe even older but there are no historical/archaeological evidences for now] Obviously we need to point one thing, each proffession have their worst and their best crafts. I can't tell the quality of the average level as I was only once as a child in therapy, even tho I should have gone few times in past. There are the people who shouldn't do that job but they unfortunately do. And there are people who are doing great work and have a large feedback by clients. |
ZettaikenJan 18, 3:25 PM
| Therapy never really helped me. I went to a child therapist for years when my parents were divorcing and it resulted in nothing but wastes time at the behest of the court system. As an adult I went to one voluntarily and wouldnt help me with the problems I brought up but would instead try to get me to watch Ted talks about volnurability which wasn't my issue at all. Then when I've been forced to see a therapist and I talk about childhood trauma they just waive it away and move on without providing me any guidance beyond "just know it isnt your fault". Like bitch I never said I thought it was. Basically from what I've seen is that therapy does prioritize women, which makes sense overall but I dont have to like it. You shouldn't guilt trip your patient who is in a crisis so you can prioritize a girl who is similarly in one. That was the most enlightening for me and after I got out of the hospital I stopped seeing that therapist and havent gone to see ome voluntarily since. Just remember, nobody gives a shit about your struggle and the most you can do is pay someone to pretend they do. |
  ♡ Harder Daddy ♡ |
Shishio-kun said: (1) abused kids/teens to find out what's bothering them if they don't admit it. (2) people in denial after a tragic event might benefit from it temporarily to understand what's happened. Like say, someone who won't believe something bad even took place. That would be very rare too, after most tragic events in a person's life, the person accepts it as reality even if they don't like it and struggle. Sadly that's when therapy is assigned to them. And I think it actually makes things worse and harder to move on since they keep reliving it! I'd find it questionable to subject them to that against their will beyond a sort of observational thing with fairly casual talk and it doesnt necessarily have to be a therapist just someone skilled at that sort of thing. No one will talk if they are forced into therapy and it will be like for them that they are being punished. It's better to offer and leave it up to them otherwise it will be unproductive and create a case of avoidance of such things later. No, they believe unless it was something very strange then they would question their memory and sanity. What I think actually happens is they are just trying to pretend something didn't happen which they know did and are trying to forget or are in a state of dissociation where they feel detached from reality. That's different from actually believing something didn't happen they themselves experienced others have confirmed and they previously knew it did, which would be a delusion. This is done as a coping mechanism of an attempt to restore normalcy. Sometimes harmful but sometimes helpful. _Nette_ said: Then when I've been forced to see a therapist and I talk about childhood trauma they just waive it away and move on without providing me any guidance beyond "just know it isnt your fault". Like bitch I never said I thought it was. Some therapists don't even say that if their patient does say something is their fault. It's common though so kind of a case of them not really entirely listening and trying to personalize just pathologize. The ignoring of trauma is result of a dumbed down version of Alfred Adler's views. He was more about treating people as individuals not labels but what modern psychology got from him was: "No experience is in itself a cause of our success or failure. We do not suffer from the shock of our experiences — the so-called trauma — but instead, we make out of them whatever suits our purposes. We are not determined by our experiences, but the meaning we give them is self-determining. People are not driven by past causes, but move toward goals that they themselves set." While not entirely wrong turning this into CBT doesn't really address why people came to the interpretations they did in the first place thus not quite solving the root cause. |
| Might sound cliche, but therapy only works if you're open to it and have one that feels like a good fit for you. If those don't line up, it can feel like a waste of time and money, but so are a lot of things if you don't put effort in. It can be a shit ton of money though. |
Reply to Shishio-kun
traed said:
From years of talking to strangers and friends with psychotherapists and/or psychiatrists and my mom seeing a counselor and me having spoken to psychotherapists online and also having seen a psychologist I can absolutely say the mainstream of psychotherapy and psychiatry is terrible ranging from barely helpful to actually extremely harmful. Actually good therapists are very much a rarity.
From years of talking to strangers and friends with psychotherapists and/or psychiatrists and my mom seeing a counselor and me having spoken to psychotherapists online and also having seen a psychologist I can absolutely say the mainstream of psychotherapy and psychiatry is terrible ranging from barely helpful to actually extremely harmful. Actually good therapists are very much a rarity.
Traed is right again. Long-term therapy is useless and a scam. Will probably be seen as quackery/silly in future centuries. Like how they used to measure your skull... or astrology lol
At best, and this is all hypothesis so I could be wrong, imo a little bit of therapy might be good for:
(1) abused kids/teens to find out what's bothering them if they don't admit it.
(2) people in denial after a tragic event might benefit from it temporarily to understand what's happened. Like say, someone who won't believe something bad even took place. That would be very rare too, after most tragic events in a person's life, the person accepts it as reality even if they don't like it and struggle. Sadly that's when therapy is assigned to them. And I think it actually makes things worse and harder to move on since they keep reliving it!
Now, on the contrary: I do wonder about ppl who have little human contact, even online, and who actually desire contact and have trauma of some kind unresolved. Perhaps they may benefit from therapy if this isolation is causing depression compounded with other trauma. For instance, they are reliving the trauma in an unhealthy, isolated manner, rather than moving from it through action or interaction with others. Perhaps for those ppl, the short term or periodic therapy could be a net gain in their life. I'm not sure, but I doubt long term would be good for this kind of person, as it seems like it may create a dependent relationship.
Also periodic therapy might be helpful so individuals can be assured if their perspective is wrong or not. I'm talking one session a year so we can know if an individual is literally understanding reality or not after abuse or loss. That could assist with moving on from a painful event. From my own experience, after a very bad breakup, I was recommended therapy to "feel better". The ex had told me I was abusive even though I didn't think I was. After explaining the full situation to the therapist, she explained that the ex was actually the abusive one! She pointed out I was manipulated and didn't fully understand what had happened (I guess I was gaslit, as they say). I kind of already knew that, but hearing it from a neutral party was helpful a bit for me to relieve me of some guilt and might have helped me move on sooner. Now things are 100% obvious in hindsight. Since then hearing the stories of other men, it seems to be a common situation with abusive and manipulative partners lol. Anyway, the rest of the therapy was a tremendous waste! Didn't help at all. Actually hurt more lol. One therapy session to understand the proper perspective would have been enough.
I was also put into therapy on and off since I was a teen, it's never helped either, only made me feel worse reliving shit; only action and time helps to move on from trauma and difficult situations.
| @Shishio-kun i dont think you know what a true scam is. its not supposed to be a instant cure all. its not meant to be deceiving. its just another tool that works for some people. it helps to know how to practice healthy coping mechanisms and be able to recoginize self sabatoging behaviors. the only thing thats quackery is your post. sorry you had a bad experience with therapy. |
| It depends heavily on if the therapist has the proficiency to get over the hurdle of scepticism and reservation the patient likely feels. People have every right to be cynical and dismissive of the process and it means that, in the rare scenario they meet someone who knows what they're doing, they're obviously not going to benefit from it. I've found that most people who didn't enjoy therapy felt their therapist was unable to get over this hurdle and a connection was never made. A perennial truth that many have forgotten is that the ability of helping others emotionally cannot be taught - you need to have an intuitive skill for reading people and finding options that will appeal to their sympathies, having a degree or even medical experience won't change that. Obviously a reductive system is untrustworthy and inaccurate unless it has something more substantial as its basis. Even psychoanalysis, the supposed pure form of cognitive study, is, as Jung noted, downstream from immaterial notions and agencies which have more profound implications than the simple aggregate of a person's outward perceptions. Reminder that most respectable and admirable people who have lived would set off numerous red-flags for any contemporary therapist: the explicit end-goal of therapy these days is to make you receptive to the status quo. |
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_Nette_ said: It's more just placating someone. There are groups of people that have alot of social stock in making sure people forget that my whole situation exists. Do you mean something specific or do you mean holistically? AnimeFreak-San said: i dont think you know what a true scam is. its not supposed to be a instant cure all. its not meant to be deceiving. its just another tool that works for some people. it helps to know how to practice healthy coping mechanisms and be able to recoginize self sabatoging behaviors. the only thing thats quackery is your post. sorry you had a bad experience with therapy. Scam isnt quite right word they used but not far off from the truth. Psychiatry and talk therapy cant solve things that need to be solved on a societal and familial level. |
| I was in therapy multiple times but it didnt help me. But if I think back now all I did was being annoyed and disturbed by the lessons and once I got home I would get back to my usual habits of playing games, watching hentai, watching TV, meeting noone and doing no sport. I still think therpay might help but if you ware not willing to put extra work in it and expect a therpaist fixing things for you, nothing will change. If you are not willing to get rid of your addictions and change your life around, therapy is a waste of time. I wasn't willing to change back then and put any work into every day aside from the therapy lessons. A therapist is only one fraction of what you have to do to improve your mental health. Now I am willing to change and put a lot of work and effort into me, I will soon start my third therapy session and will see if it will get better over time. If not, then we might be all screwed fr lol Edit: So the question in my eyes is: Are you willing to change your life around and put extra work into yourself? Are you willing to get rid of your addictions? Etc. - No, I want to live my life the way it is. I want to continue using drugs, alcohol, whatever. I am not willing to do workouts, etc. --> Then therapy is most likely not helping you. - Yes, I am willing to put a lot of effort into myself, doing the extra hours, getting rid of addictions, taking a look at yoga, meditation, signing up in a gym, going outside much more often, meeting with a group of people who have the same issues like I have --> Then therapy MIGHT help you. I can recommend HealthyGamerGG (YouTube) if you want to inform you about things like that. He is a doctor and also made a video like "Why therapy sucks for men". Maybe take a look at his channel. |
Heart4HSJan 19, 2:19 AM
| The best sentiment I heard about therapy is that even though more people are in therapy than ever before, there are also more people miserable than ever before. A successful therapy session would mean that the patient no longer needs to go there. But it's not like I would actually have hands on experience with it, therapy is a western thing, almost nobody does it here. |
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traed said: From years of talking to strangers and friends with psychotherapists and/or psychiatrists and my mom seeing a counselor and me having spoken to psychotherapists online and also having seen a psychologist I can absolutely say the mainstream of psychotherapy and psychiatry is terrible ranging from barely helpful to actually extremely harmful. Actually good therapists are very much a rarity. It can help some. Talking with others openly about our struggles often does, especially those with understanding. However, as a patient, one should be very careful what is said to them; in most countries, those in mental health professions (particularly psychologists/psychiatrists) have more legal power over a person than the police and can cause much more harm than good. The film One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest is a pretty realistic portrayal of the power these people still wield to this day. The only thing that has changed is that nowadays lobotomies are accomplished chemically as opposed to surgically. It's more palatable for the general public. TibetanJazz666 said: Reminder that most respectable and admirable people who have lived would set off numerous red-flags for any contemporary therapist: the explicit end-goal of therapy these days is to make you receptive to the status quo. Very true. It's helpful to regard those who work in this field as not unlike clergy in old times who would function to relieve people of their guilt and so on, but also to ensure compliance with the desirable social structure/conditions. |
Kvistis said: It can help some. Talking with others openly about our struggles often does, especially those with understanding. However, as a patient, one should be very careful what is said to them; in most countries, those in mental health professions (particularly psychologists/psychiatrists) have more legal power over a person than the police and can cause much more harm than good. The film One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest is a pretty realistic portrayal of the power these people still wield to this day. The only thing that has changed is that nowadays lobotomies are accomplished chemically as opposed to surgically. It's more palatable for the general public. Yes talking about things can be helpful sometimes for some people but im saying that it doesnt necessarily have to be someone with a degree in psychotherapy it can be a caring understanding person and you get better results with a support network instead of just some therapist that often takes advantage of patients unconsciously and sometimes consciously. Wasnt that about shock treatment not surgical lobotomies? Havent read the book but saw the movie years back. They actually still do that but call it something else and pretend it is safer just because they give drugs to prevent muscle spasms and do it under anesthesia when from what im aware from some documentary which may be false because it was produced by the untrustworthy Church of Scientology but it also had a court footage in it and interviews. Basically it did and still causes brain damage. I wouldnt go as far as say psycho pharma are lobotomies since it is possible to recover a degree from them but in case of antipsychotics the purpose is similar to make the patient manageable although newest ones are an improvement and even newer ones are coming out even better ive read of in development. In case of antidepressants and antianxiolytics they are part of the excuse of maintaining atatus quo in society. Oh you dont like your job doesnt pay enough? Take this pill. I should also mention it seems these meds are being used incorrectly by doctors overprescribing or making someone rely on them indefinitely when that isnt always needed. |
traed said: Yes talking about things can be helpful sometimes for some people but im saying that it doesnt necessarily have to be someone with a degree in psychotherapy it can be a caring understanding person and you get better results with a support network instead of just some therapist that often takes advantage of patients unconsciously and sometimes consciously. I totally agree with you. traed said: Wasnt that about shock treatment not surgical lobotomies? Havent read the book but saw the movie years back. They actually still do that but call it something else and pretend it is safer just because they give drugs to prevent muscle spasms and do it under anesthesia when from what im aware from some documentary which may be false because it was produced by the untrustworthy Church of Scientology but it also had a court footage in it and interviews. Basically it did and still causes brain damage. Shock treatment these days is a voluntary procedure in most countries, but chemical lobotomies are not. traed said: I wouldnt go as far as say psycho pharma are lobotomies since it is possible to recover a degree from them but in case of antipsychotics the purpose is similar to make the patient manageable although newest ones are an improvement and even newer ones are coming out even better ive read of in development. In regards to pharmaceuticals, I don't wish to assume, but perhaps you haven't seen first hand what these people can do. They can reduce a beautiful, creative human being into a husk, a walking corpse if they wish, just because their patient's way of experiencing and interacting the world is not according to the window of acceptable behavior, often when they have never committed a crime. If those with a piece of paper saying they are somehow qualified to judge what's going on in your mind decide you need to be completely destroyed by drugs, they will do it, and an individual has no choice in the matter. I believe you underestimate the actual damage pharmaceuticals can do to a body. They will strap you to a bed and inject you day after day by force. If you believe they only do these things because their judgement is "educated," I highly recommend the book "the Myth of Mental Illness" It will help to understand the issues at hand. |
KvistisJan 19, 9:56 AM
| The idea of getting therapy is not bad, in fact everyone does it to some level. Some cant do it on their own or with the help of friends and/or family members, so they pay strangers to help them through it. Although I would never jump to a therapist immediately for things I could try and treat on my own, paying a therapist means I have come to a serious mental low point that I am unable to treat on my own. Then again, some therapists can be scammers, absolutely unfit for their line of work. Those therapists that intentionally keep you in this dependency relations all so that they keep getting money. Its like those messed up sayings where they say a "good" doctor is not the one who cures his patient, but the one who keeps their patients coming pack, aka the greedy sob who doesnt care about actually fixing the problem, only keeping the problem messed just enough so that they have a continued stream of revenue. Bad Therapists are like that. However, a person also needs to be open for therapy, actually intending to fix their problem, otherwise no amount of aid will work. At the end of the day, it all depends on the person to fix themselves, whatever method is necessary (being self therapy or therapy from friends, family, or payed therapist). |
 "Don't let your memes be dreams."- Ancient Japanese proverb, probably |
Kvistis said: I totally agree with you. Oh I forgot to mention for some cases the person spoken to has to be pretty intelligent not just caring and understanding since sometimes people need complex advice for complex situations and therapists often do not give advice for that kind of stuff beyond a roundabout sugar coated way of saying "suck it up". Kvistis said: Shock treatment these days is a voluntary procedure in most countries, but chemical lobotomies are not. Depends what countries you have in mind. There is certain situations they can force it. Kvistis said: In regards to pharmaceuticals, I don't wish to assume, but perhaps you haven't seen first hand what these people can do. They can reduce a beautiful, creative human being into a husk, a walking corpse if they wish, just because their patient's way of experiencing and interacting the world is not according to the window of acceptable behavior, often when they have never committed a crime. If those with a piece of paper saying they are somehow qualified to judge what's going on in your mind decide you need to be completely destroyed by drugs, they will do it, and an individual has no choice in the matter. I believe you underestimate the actual damage pharmaceuticals can do to a body. They will strap you to a bed and inject you day after day by force. If you believe they only do these things because their judgement is "educated," I highly recommend the book "the Myth of Mental Illness" It will help to understand the issues at hand. Well there is a few things I left out like SSRIs can cause emotional blunting which is why there are some cases of people being on SSRIs and committing mass murder because they dont have so much empathy and it's also why it increases suicidal ideation in young people it isnt because their age but mindset so it can happen with anyone. Benzoiazapines can cause dangerous withdrawl symptoms if someone is taking them regularly, but incidental use is fine I think, better than alcohol. Antipsychotics can reduce remission and recovery rates of schizophrenia when taken longer than initial psychosis and make it hard to think. Pharmacology is one of the things I read about. I try to keep my knowledge in a wide range of subjects. I know some kind of drug out there exists that might be useful for myself mainly looking at Naloxone at a low dose and psilocybin as far as mental stuff goes. Many doctors also dont know about hyperbolic dosage tapering to get someone off a med instead they cut dose in half then in half again and so on but that causes withdrawls they mistake as symptoms coming back and put them back on it. Too bad I have difficulty focusing to read much, still not practicing mediation enough. |
traedJan 19, 11:33 AM
| "professional friend"? absolutely not, what an underestimation. not to speak for all therapists, but they are trained to respond appropriately and in the way that is most beneficial to their client. friends may have all the best intentions (and honestly should have "purer" intentions), but the reality is that in the end, better actions are more helpful than better intentions. edit: personal experience, I never for one second considered going to a friend or family for real advice in combating my depression. and not because I didn't trust them, wasn't close with them, or that they weren't kind. I did trust them, I was close to them, and they were kind. I just had the suspicion that due to their lack of knowledge, it was extremely likely things would only get messier if I relied on them for solutions. as a disclaimer, this was when I was in high school (so "immature" friends) ~10 years ago (society was less open to mental health). even if they meant well for me, they probably would not know what they or I were talking about nor the best ways to treat it or be able to cognitively understand me (not even necessarily empathize). I don't view therapy as emotional support, you can get that from friends/family. It's problem-solving. However I will say that in my case, meds were the real savior. Therapy def helped, but not the cincher is my belief. |
iunneJan 20, 12:28 AM
 |
| A lot of people seem to have bad experiences, so I'll throw my hat in the ring. Obviously nobody can be blamed for bad experiences, but I think it's very irresponsible to try and dissuade people from seeking resources that could help them. If you are a mess, sometimes a little guidance could be just what you need. You can't depend on exclusively your loved ones, because often times they are in the exact same situation as you. It helps to get a professional opinion. While my experience was rather limited, in the short time I had with them, I was able to sort out some things, and it actually did change my life in some areas for the better. I'm not "cured" or anything like that, because that's not what therapy is. And I think that's what some people go into it thinking. The only thing it does is give you tools and resources to be able to take care of the problems yourself. Not everyone has that kind of support group, or knowledge available to them, so it's a useful way to provide that to them. |
This ground is soiled by those before me and their lies. I dare not look up for on me I feel their eyes |
iunne said: "professional friend"? absolutely not, what an underestimation. not to speak for all therapists, but they are trained to respond appropriately and in the way that is most beneficial to their client. friends may have all the best intentions (and honestly should have "purer" intentions), but the reality is that in the end, better actions are more helpful than better intentions. I had some time in past spoke with a girl with BPD who told me things her therapist said was behind two of her suicide attempts. Then you have various others in the thread that also had bad experiences with their therapist. DreamWindow said: Obviously nobody can be blamed for bad experiences, but I think it's very irresponsible to try and dissuade people from seeking resources that could help them. I can't speak for others but that isn't really what I'm doing. I do talk people into seeing someone like that in certain circumstances and would if I could encourage them to be sure to find a well fit one and not settle for one that works against their interests. I'm more critiquing the the problems in the field since I'd like it to be improved on and so people are aware of what to look out for to spot particularly bad therapists and psychiatrists and so they also know there is hope beyond that if they have had therapists drop them as a patient too many times. Like there is different fields of psychology they may prescribe to, different therapy methods and some people improve through other means. Like sometimes it isnt a mental illness sometimes it is an undiagnosed medical condition causing symptoms manifesting like a mental illness which is why it can be good to see a doctor first to rule that out and just hope the doctor doesnt miss it and they indeed can since doctors these days also suck but for different reasons more to do with them having so many patients and not spending enough time and attention on them as result. |
traedJan 21, 2:11 AM
|
| Lie until what you want to be true becomes truth. Lie until you can't remember what's a lie and what isn't. Lie until you aren't lying anymore! Figures  |
Reply to traed
iunne said:
"professional friend"? absolutely not, what an underestimation. not to speak for all therapists, but they are trained to respond appropriately and in the way that is most beneficial to their client. friends may have all the best intentions (and honestly should have "purer" intentions), but the reality is that in the end, better actions are more helpful than better intentions.
"professional friend"? absolutely not, what an underestimation. not to speak for all therapists, but they are trained to respond appropriately and in the way that is most beneficial to their client. friends may have all the best intentions (and honestly should have "purer" intentions), but the reality is that in the end, better actions are more helpful than better intentions.
I had some time in past spoke with a girl with BPD who told me things her therapist said was behind two of her suicide attempts. Then you have various others in the thread that also had bad experiences with their therapist.
DreamWindow said:
Obviously nobody can be blamed for bad experiences, but I think it's very irresponsible to try and dissuade people from seeking resources that could help them.
Obviously nobody can be blamed for bad experiences, but I think it's very irresponsible to try and dissuade people from seeking resources that could help them.
I can't speak for others but that isn't really what I'm doing. I do talk people into seeing someone like that in certain circumstances and would if I could encourage them to be sure to find a well fit one and not settle for one that works against their interests. I'm more critiquing the the problems in the field since I'd like it to be improved on and so people are aware of what to look out for to spot particularly bad therapists and psychiatrists and so they also know there is hope beyond that if they have had therapists drop them as a patient too many times. Like there is different fields of psychology they may prescribe to, different therapy methods and some people improve through other means. Like sometimes it isnt a mental illness sometimes it is an undiagnosed medical condition causing symptoms manifesting like a mental illness which is why it can be good to see a doctor first to rule that out and just hope the doctor doesnt miss it and they indeed can since doctors these days also suck but for different reasons more to do with them having so many patients and not spending enough time and attention on them as result.
| @traed it's the same thing as a teacher or police officer. I'm talking about what a therapist is supposed to be as a profession, not what some individuals actually are. Therapists are not supposed to be "friends", just like how teachers are supposed to be role models/guidance for students and police officers are not supposed to abuse their power. Reality is very different, bc we are humans. But therapists are just as much of a "scam" as teachers and police officers are, if you want to think of it that way. |
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Reply to traed
iunne said:
"professional friend"? absolutely not, what an underestimation. not to speak for all therapists, but they are trained to respond appropriately and in the way that is most beneficial to their client. friends may have all the best intentions (and honestly should have "purer" intentions), but the reality is that in the end, better actions are more helpful than better intentions.
"professional friend"? absolutely not, what an underestimation. not to speak for all therapists, but they are trained to respond appropriately and in the way that is most beneficial to their client. friends may have all the best intentions (and honestly should have "purer" intentions), but the reality is that in the end, better actions are more helpful than better intentions.
I had some time in past spoke with a girl with BPD who told me things her therapist said was behind two of her suicide attempts. Then you have various others in the thread that also had bad experiences with their therapist.
DreamWindow said:
Obviously nobody can be blamed for bad experiences, but I think it's very irresponsible to try and dissuade people from seeking resources that could help them.
Obviously nobody can be blamed for bad experiences, but I think it's very irresponsible to try and dissuade people from seeking resources that could help them.
I can't speak for others but that isn't really what I'm doing. I do talk people into seeing someone like that in certain circumstances and would if I could encourage them to be sure to find a well fit one and not settle for one that works against their interests. I'm more critiquing the the problems in the field since I'd like it to be improved on and so people are aware of what to look out for to spot particularly bad therapists and psychiatrists and so they also know there is hope beyond that if they have had therapists drop them as a patient too many times. Like there is different fields of psychology they may prescribe to, different therapy methods and some people improve through other means. Like sometimes it isnt a mental illness sometimes it is an undiagnosed medical condition causing symptoms manifesting like a mental illness which is why it can be good to see a doctor first to rule that out and just hope the doctor doesnt miss it and they indeed can since doctors these days also suck but for different reasons more to do with them having so many patients and not spending enough time and attention on them as result.
| @traed it's the same thing as a teacher or police officer. I'm talking about what a therapist is supposed to be as a profession, not what some individuals actually are. Therapists are not supposed to be "friends", just like how teachers are supposed to be role models/guidance for students and police officers are not supposed to abuse their power. Reality is very different, bc we are humans. But therapists are just as much of a "scam" as teachers and police officers are, if you want to think of it that way. |
|
iunne said: it's the same thing as a teacher or police officer. I'm talking about what a therapist is supposed to be as a profession, not what some individuals actually are. Therapists are not supposed to be "friends", just like how teachers are supposed to be role models/guidance for students and police officers are not supposed to abuse their power. Reality is very different, bc we are humans. But therapists are just as much of a "scam" as teachers and police officers are, if you want to think of it that way. Well yes, they technically aren't "supposed" to act as a friend because they are "supposed" to maintain emotional distancing. |
Reply to traed
iunne said:
it's the same thing as a teacher or police officer. I'm talking about what a therapist is supposed to be as a profession, not what some individuals actually are. Therapists are not supposed to be "friends", just like how teachers are supposed to be role models/guidance for students and police officers are not supposed to abuse their power. Reality is very different, bc we are humans. But therapists are just as much of a "scam" as teachers and police officers are, if you want to think of it that way.
it's the same thing as a teacher or police officer. I'm talking about what a therapist is supposed to be as a profession, not what some individuals actually are. Therapists are not supposed to be "friends", just like how teachers are supposed to be role models/guidance for students and police officers are not supposed to abuse their power. Reality is very different, bc we are humans. But therapists are just as much of a "scam" as teachers and police officers are, if you want to think of it that way.
Well yes, they technically aren't "supposed" to act as a friend because they are "supposed" to maintain emotional distancing.
| @traed right, exactly my point. I made this disclaimer in my initial post: iunne said: not to speak for all therapists, but... So to reiterate, you are not (or should not be) paying them to be a "professional friend to you." Just like how we should not be spending our tax money on power-hungry narcissists as police officers. |
|
| I wouldn't go so far as to say therapy in general is a scam, but I do think a lot of psychiatry unfortunately is. I think it's a necessary field but one that draws in a lot of opportunists and grifters. |
Take care of yourself |
| Imagine paying to get gaslighted... |
| IMO thinking like OP is kind of dangerous.. I am female, therefore, I don't know much about what's going on inside a dude's brain, but.. It's important to learn to become emotionally literate. therapy can help you with that. Let's not downplay it to "just talking" to a person because it isn't. there are people who have studied and worked with mentally ill people for decades. they can teach you how to go about situations so much better. Not to mention that you shouldn't just go to a friend with these things. You can, however, your friends are often not equipped enough to keep listening to you. They probably would, for your sake, but it takes a lot of mental energy. It is super important to go see a therapist. The real problem is the way governments in many countries deal with their healthcare system. It's often times very much fucked, and just fyi my government expects me to pay up almost 400 euros per year of therapy. (However, after I paid I am free to fall ill and be hospitalized, because my government pays for everything after that initial 400.) THAT's what needs to change. Because, well, I don't know about you guys but for me it would be easier and free of charge to just die.. Please see a therapist. You don't have to do it alone. Men are allowed to feel emotions. |
| "This signature is under construction." ~Fabuubz |
Fabrunette said: IMO thinking like OP is kind of dangerous.. I am female, therefore, I don't know much about what's going on inside a dude's brain, but.. It's important to learn to become emotionally literate. therapy can help you with that. Let's not downplay it to "just talking" to a person because it isn't. there are people who have studied and worked with mentally ill people for decades. they can teach you how to go about situations so much better. Not to mention that you shouldn't just go to a friend with these things. You can, however, your friends are often not equipped enough to keep listening to you. They probably would, for your sake, but it takes a lot of mental energy. It is super important to go see a therapist. The real problem is the way governments in many countries deal with their healthcare system. It's often times very much fucked, and just fyi my government expects me to pay up almost 400 euros per year of therapy. (However, after I paid I am free to fall ill and be hospitalized, because my government pays for everything after that initial 400.) THAT's what needs to change. Because, well, I don't know about you guys but for me it would be easier and free of charge to just die.. Please see a therapist. You don't have to do it alone. Men are allowed to feel emotions. It entirely depends on what someone has trouble with. The therapists are not the ones who do the work the patient is, most they can do is try to guide someone but sometimes they guide them in a direction that is wrong for them and they either resist and make no difference for them or they go with it and become different people in a bad way or wind up in a place they didnt want to be in. Many people are already aware of exactly what their problem is, often being something material in their life's state of being either as entirely the cause or contributing to it. Sometimes it is a mental state but no one can change a person's mental state but that person. Getting outside perspective can be helpful but it isnt always a therapist who is best at that at least not the mainstream of therapists who only treatment wise care about emotion control not conditions people are in. Other cases it is neurological but the meds they give either are ineffective or have unwanted side effects sometimes the effect is as bad or worse than what it is trying to fix. For example SSRIs work by causing emotional blunting. This blunts not just negative but positive emotions as well which can make someone feel worse and less avoidant of danger which is why it creates worse suicidal ideation in some people. I know this from speaking with various people about their medication and reading academic papers and watching documentaries that have interviews with psychiatrists and pharmacists and ex pharmaceutical representatives. You also arent considering how some people just cant go to a therapist because of their financial or mental state or other reasons. As ive said before im not saying someone should not go but there often is steps they can take prior it just depends how immediate they need help on something how bad it is and if they do go to a therapist they should do research well. I am aware of self therapy programs too such as https://ecouch.com.au/info/about That is how it works in the US but there is additional payments on top of that being like twice of some other countries. Here the money goes to private insurers and the money is used as an investment in a private company. There are therapists with sliding scale payments where they expect less money if you cant afford it. If they dont offer that such a therapist I personally would never trust even if it were i didnt personally need it. Really society should be structured so material problems arise less and teach people at an early age to be better capable of solving life problems and how to properly socialize and understand people and empathize with them to a reasonable amount. |
| There is nothing more insufferable than the men who boast about having been to therapy only to reveal themselves as complete idiots. Fabrunette said: IMO thinking like OP is kind of dangerous.. I am female, therefore, I don't know much about what's going on inside a dude's brain, but.. It's important to learn to become emotionally literate. therapy can help you with that. Let's not downplay it to "just talking" to a person because it isn't. there are people who have studied and worked with mentally ill people for decades. they can teach you how to go about situations so much better. Not to mention that you shouldn't just go to a friend with these things. You can, however, your friends are often not equipped enough to keep listening to you. They probably would, for your sake, but it takes a lot of mental energy. It is super important to go see a therapist. The real problem is the way governments in many countries deal with their healthcare system. It's often times very much fucked, and just fyi my government expects me to pay up almost 400 euros per year of therapy. (However, after I paid I am free to fall ill and be hospitalized, because my government pays for everything after that initial 400.) THAT's what needs to change. Because, well, I don't know about you guys but for me it would be easier and free of charge to just die.. Please see a therapist. You don't have to do it alone. Men are allowed to feel emotions. Implying that men are emotionally illiterate... We do not need therapists for that, we can write poetry, build telescopes, and count piles of oranges (Kepler conjecture). Friends are good enough for 99% of people who simply need to vent, not get a dubious psychoanalysis by a conman. I do not think that this is good advice. In reality, very few people need therapy, and if men are allowed to feel emotions, it would be best for everyone if they did not started to cry at the sight of the first cat that comes along or kick walls in public when they are upset at something silly. A public display of stoicism is an excellent basis of practical morality, and only the happy few should be able to see past your sharp edges. |
| @Meusnier I agree that friends is the best alternative. You forget this is my field, I'll tell you most people who visit therapy don't have any friends or at least not any real ones. Most people don't have any real friends. The problem is men are overall emotionally and sensitive you people keep labeling everything with masculinity as evil. Also 400 is 33 a month wtf the problem? |
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