Indeed, money and emotions have clouded rational thinking, sadly. It's especially visible in modern times, in the age of the information storm. Emotions have a wonderful environment to shine in an age where access to various information is easy, so apart from those who are simply curious and want to expand their knowledge, there can also be a lot of charismatic people who are incompetent. They can pose as actually knowledgeable "self-taught scholars" or something and, by doing so, gain a lot of attention from people craving for excitement, drama, and thrills. Mostly coming from the masses unaware of the fact they are being misinformed. On the other hand, the former thing, money, if used in an unethical way, can also lead to misinformation. More refined version of it, but misinformation is still misinformation, and half-truth is not truth.
Everything is good if used well. However, if we treat the aforementioned things as mere tools, then, as at least most of similar tools, they can be used in different ways. For good, for bad, for neutral deeds. It all depends on a person or people making use of them. That's why I think it's important to not be afraid of making use of the fact that in our current times we can gain knowledge fast and a lot of stuff is easily accessible via the Internet. One just needs to be responsible. Hard trait to see these days, sadly.
To be honest, I don't remember much about that thread about showering, but I remember there was one. What you said reminds me of some memes preaching about showering or bathing daily being, in fact, submitting to the system or something, haha.
About the protester you mentioned, no, I haven't heard about that person. I'm not much into informations regarding the internal affairs of the USA. Not at all, in fact. I prefer to just stick to stuff that is important from the point of view of the region I'm living in (and I live relatively far from North America, haha). Nevertheless, it is really a sad thing that this person did this. Unfortunately, ideological fanatism may lead to such horrifying actions, whether it's a form of protest or a bizarre sign of support.
Apologies for the late reply. I was busy for a couple of days and couldn't reply earlier.
Yeah, some people love to search for any sort of apocalyptic prophecies. The closer they are, the better, as, like you said, such information fuels up their emotions and makes them both scared and excited, or even passionate in some cases. That's why when they see a renowned and respected scientist writing about something, be it in a slightly humoristic way or not, they often just jump to the hypothetical date of the end of the world without even paying more attention (or any attention) to the context, background, or whole paper, lol.
At least they are not that influential due to their profession. After all, science isn't as exciting to the majority of the population as charismatic gurus with hypnotizing speeches and idealistic ideas. Science serves well as a fallacy ("uh-oh are you an actual scholar in hygiene to tell me that it's good to take a shower often?!") or a semi-fallacious way of derailing the discussion ("my source/sources says/say that the Earth is flat, you have no source, or even if you do, you have fewer sources than me, check-mate!").
The worst is when there is a fanatic using their charisma to gather people around themselves in the form of a cult. It usually ends up with horrible things happening. Events such as what happened in Jonestown in 1978 (mass suicide inspired by the guru of Peoples Temple, Jim Jones) or in Tokyo in 1995 (subway sarin attack inspired by the guru of Aum Shinrikyou, Shoukou Asahara), are only a few of the shocking and upsetting things that happened because a charismatic person overused their influence and inspired their believers, this way or another, to do atrocious things for the sake of the sect.
While I was reading this, I noticed that it was a Friday the 13th date, and my eyes rolled a little bit, lol. And on his birthday, too, hmm. What did he mean by this?
I had the impression of reading about a scientific shitpost of some sort, lol. Something that was meant to be more refined than a common meme, but didn't mean to be as serious as a stereotypical scientific work. xD
Ouch. It's a shame. I didn't feel the discussed topic itself was about something that could be considered a reason to delete the whole thread. At least it wasn't when I checked it out last time, which was hours ago, lol. I guess the original post had too much religion-centered stuff written in it. Maybe it was the reason of the whole thread's deletion. Oh well.
Luckily, I read your post, although I wanted to reply to it sometime later, because I had to do one thing that couldn't wait. I remember that you shared a link to an article that seemed to be a quick rundown of the stuff presented in the original article. The article I was referring to in the post I wrote was, of course, "Doomsday: Friday, 13 November, A.D. 2026" written by Heinz von Foerster, Patricia M. Mora, Lawrence W. Amiot. It was published in "Science" magazine in 1960. Long story short, in the article, there was proposed a formula allowing to predict future population growth, with picking up 13th November 2026 as the date of the aforementioned doomsday. Unlike other predictions, it wasn't a destructive image of cataclysms destroying the whole planet, but rather a day in which the human population growth, according to the formula, would become infinite and thus would lead to an overpopulation disaster without any chances to stop.
Well, surely an interesting take, coming from a great and influential scientist. However, I'm not convinced. The problem of unstoppable overpopulation, in my opinion, is too complex to be analyzed with just one formula and with just math. Scholars can predict, more or less, what might be the world's population in the future, which they do (statistics and predictions based on them exist, after all, lol), but to have a formula allowing them to grasp such complicated, dependable on so many different factors, thing? Bold and ambitious thing to do, no matter whether it was done unironically, or perhaps with a dose of humor, or out of scientific curiosity leading to an attempt at creating a formula of that kind.
As for me, I treat it as a scientific curio. Like I said, the concept of "infinite overpopulation of humans on Earth", assuming it's something that has a chance to occur one day (I doubt it will, at least not until we, as human beings, start building stable space civilizations on other planets shattered around our galaxy), is too complex to be put into the boundaries of a scientific formula. An idea for a sci-fi story? Sure thing, sounds cool, but not as anything close to a realistic prognosis.
I also remember that you mentioned fearmongering related to the overpopulation topic. Yeah, I saw fans of apocalyptic visions of overpopulation using it as an argument, though very rarely. Not that that I met a lot of 'em. I find it way healthier to avoid such people, if all they have to say is just repeating the same stuff with "trust me bro" credibility. Anyway, perhaps the thing I mentioned wasn't that popular maybe due to its still refined mathematical background. That's the only reason I can think of when wondering why the folks I'm talking about didn't touch on this subject a lot, at least in the convos on the Internet I happened to read. After all, it's way easier to just stick to slogans of all sorts than to just go deeper into the subject.
Fun fact: Heinz von Foerster's Doomsday was scheduled to take place on his 115th birthday. Funny coincidence? A joke of some sort? Maybe, maybe. But is Friday 13th a coincidence as well, I wonder?! xD
Saw you on that cursed "does age matter" thread. Nice to see another sane person! I actually stopped talking to that Noboru quite a number of years ago when I first discovered their questionable morals. I see nothing has changed in all this time.
I just finished reading the Hellhammer/Celtic Frost 'Only Death Is Real' book, have you checked it out? If not I highly recommend it if you see it at a good price anywhere. It goes into the history of Hellhammer and early Celtic Frost (up until just after Morbid Tales was released) and has a lot of photos and scans of artwork, old logos, flyers, etc. It's written by Tom G. Warrior with some input from Martin Eric Ain too. I found it super interesting.
I tried to keep with new series for like two or three times but failed lol I still watch new stuff from time to time, next spring in particular does have lots of sequels/continuing series that I'm very interested to get an eye on. But I'm more of guy who checks old anime from the 00' to early 10'
And so, I extend the question again -How can you make a case that bodily autonomy -or any other right for example, is morally good or desirable if they are not intrinsic? Why do we need a government to tell us what our rights are? Especially since they have been demonstrably infringing on those rights for centuries.
Maybe I misunderstand the "intrinsic" here, to me it sounds like rights exist naturally, but there are no rights in nature. They are a human concept and not every individual has the same in mind, so to find an acceptable consensus requires a democratic process and then the state is responsible to protect the constituted rights. Sadly some people in power abuse it to infringe on, reshape or even abolish certain rights for their own benefit, it happened many times already and will keep happening.
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Everything is good if used well. However, if we treat the aforementioned things as mere tools, then, as at least most of similar tools, they can be used in different ways. For good, for bad, for neutral deeds. It all depends on a person or people making use of them. That's why I think it's important to not be afraid of making use of the fact that in our current times we can gain knowledge fast and a lot of stuff is easily accessible via the Internet. One just needs to be responsible. Hard trait to see these days, sadly.
To be honest, I don't remember much about that thread about showering, but I remember there was one. What you said reminds me of some memes preaching about showering or bathing daily being, in fact, submitting to the system or something, haha.
About the protester you mentioned, no, I haven't heard about that person. I'm not much into informations regarding the internal affairs of the USA. Not at all, in fact. I prefer to just stick to stuff that is important from the point of view of the region I'm living in (and I live relatively far from North America, haha). Nevertheless, it is really a sad thing that this person did this. Unfortunately, ideological fanatism may lead to such horrifying actions, whether it's a form of protest or a bizarre sign of support.
Apologies for the late reply. I was busy for a couple of days and couldn't reply earlier.
At least they are not that influential due to their profession. After all, science isn't as exciting to the majority of the population as charismatic gurus with hypnotizing speeches and idealistic ideas. Science serves well as a fallacy ("uh-oh are you an actual scholar in hygiene to tell me that it's good to take a shower often?!") or a semi-fallacious way of derailing the discussion ("my source/sources says/say that the Earth is flat, you have no source, or even if you do, you have fewer sources than me, check-mate!").
The worst is when there is a fanatic using their charisma to gather people around themselves in the form of a cult. It usually ends up with horrible things happening. Events such as what happened in Jonestown in 1978 (mass suicide inspired by the guru of Peoples Temple, Jim Jones) or in Tokyo in 1995 (subway sarin attack inspired by the guru of Aum Shinrikyou, Shoukou Asahara), are only a few of the shocking and upsetting things that happened because a charismatic person overused their influence and inspired their believers, this way or another, to do atrocious things for the sake of the sect.
Luckily, I read your post, although I wanted to reply to it sometime later, because I had to do one thing that couldn't wait. I remember that you shared a link to an article that seemed to be a quick rundown of the stuff presented in the original article. The article I was referring to in the post I wrote was, of course, "Doomsday: Friday, 13 November, A.D. 2026" written by Heinz von Foerster, Patricia M. Mora, Lawrence W. Amiot. It was published in "Science" magazine in 1960. Long story short, in the article, there was proposed a formula allowing to predict future population growth, with picking up 13th November 2026 as the date of the aforementioned doomsday. Unlike other predictions, it wasn't a destructive image of cataclysms destroying the whole planet, but rather a day in which the human population growth, according to the formula, would become infinite and thus would lead to an overpopulation disaster without any chances to stop.
Well, surely an interesting take, coming from a great and influential scientist. However, I'm not convinced. The problem of unstoppable overpopulation, in my opinion, is too complex to be analyzed with just one formula and with just math. Scholars can predict, more or less, what might be the world's population in the future, which they do (statistics and predictions based on them exist, after all, lol), but to have a formula allowing them to grasp such complicated, dependable on so many different factors, thing? Bold and ambitious thing to do, no matter whether it was done unironically, or perhaps with a dose of humor, or out of scientific curiosity leading to an attempt at creating a formula of that kind.
As for me, I treat it as a scientific curio. Like I said, the concept of "infinite overpopulation of humans on Earth", assuming it's something that has a chance to occur one day (I doubt it will, at least not until we, as human beings, start building stable space civilizations on other planets shattered around our galaxy), is too complex to be put into the boundaries of a scientific formula. An idea for a sci-fi story? Sure thing, sounds cool, but not as anything close to a realistic prognosis.
I also remember that you mentioned fearmongering related to the overpopulation topic. Yeah, I saw fans of apocalyptic visions of overpopulation using it as an argument, though very rarely. Not that that I met a lot of 'em. I find it way healthier to avoid such people, if all they have to say is just repeating the same stuff with "trust me bro" credibility. Anyway, perhaps the thing I mentioned wasn't that popular maybe due to its still refined mathematical background. That's the only reason I can think of when wondering why the folks I'm talking about didn't touch on this subject a lot, at least in the convos on the Internet I happened to read. After all, it's way easier to just stick to slogans of all sorts than to just go deeper into the subject.
Fun fact: Heinz von Foerster's Doomsday was scheduled to take place on his 115th birthday. Funny coincidence? A joke of some sort? Maybe, maybe. But is Friday 13th a coincidence as well, I wonder?! xD
I just finished reading the Hellhammer/Celtic Frost 'Only Death Is Real' book, have you checked it out? If not I highly recommend it if you see it at a good price anywhere. It goes into the history of Hellhammer and early Celtic Frost (up until just after Morbid Tales was released) and has a lot of photos and scans of artwork, old logos, flyers, etc. It's written by Tom G. Warrior with some input from Martin Eric Ain too. I found it super interesting.
I guess we both agree in general terms. Im good with the distinction Penal Code does.
Maybe I misunderstand the "intrinsic" here, to me it sounds like rights exist naturally, but there are no rights in nature. They are a human concept and not every individual has the same in mind, so to find an acceptable consensus requires a democratic process and then the state is responsible to protect the constituted rights. Sadly some people in power abuse it to infringe on, reshape or even abolish certain rights for their own benefit, it happened many times already and will keep happening.