| @GoodZoom How is it a false metaphor? Go on and explain it. Also, why would you ask for a "business degree"? I'm not talking about subjects that need debating, I'm literally speaking about definitions, first and foremost. You don't need any level of trust in anything that isn't "debatable". MAL, in terms of "staff", isn't big enough to even need a HR department, not like that would be a bad thing to have, mind you, but Mienus speaks about it as if it's some alien artefact needed to power the portal so we can save humanity from the invaders. Also, no, I disagree, you guys have yet to actually question or say anything of worth, why are you still allowed to post? |
Play League of Legends here! Autocrat said: Hitler was good, objectively. |
| @Immahnoob For 1 show and ranking... If someone came to give it a 10 and dips, they don't give a shit about scoring in general. We obviously don't agree, so I'm gonna leave it there. Also on the other thing... Immahnoob said: I wonder what's worse, the circus or the one that actually enables it, like you? |
 |
Immahnoob said: @GoodZoom How is it a false metaphor? Go on and explain it. Also, why would you ask for a "business degree"? I'm not talking about subjects that need debating, I'm literally speaking about definitions, first and foremost. You don't need any level of trust in anything that isn't "debatable". MAL, in terms of "staff", isn't big enough to even need a HR department, not like that would be a bad thing to have, mind you, but Mienus speaks about it as if it's some alien artefact needed to power the portal so we can save humanity from the invaders. Also, no, I disagree, you guys have yet to actually question or say anything of worth, why are you still allowed to post? Well for one a diseases aren't comparable to that of a business. In the modern world you need credentials to be a business associate or a good adviser. A typical person couldn't diagnose me with an Ulceritis Colitis could they. Your grasping at what he's saying. An HR department wouldn't be bad you have a point there. Why would I question something I don't have a problem with or completely agree with. I am allowed to post as you are. |
| The Pickled Cactus Himself. |
ImbalancedEmblem said: Agreement is only an issue because you don't understand the fundamental problem behind this system. As long as the scoring system is not objective, you can't claim that any opinion related to the scores is invalid, all of them are acceptable, or none of them are. @Immahnoob For 1 show and ranking... If someone came to give it a 10 and dips, they don't give a shit about scoring in general. We obviously don't agree, so I'm gonna leave it there. Also on the other thing... Immahnoob said: I wonder what's worse, the circus or the one that actually enables it, like you? Your way of dissuasion was also a way to enable the OP, which is counterproductive. If you don't understand analogies, sure, you're correct. But if you do, to "understand or know about businesses" you need to "run a business" (or "should have run"). To be a "doctor", you need to "have had or have every disease", otherwise you can't know about medicine to be a "doctor". It's also rather odd that to know anything about a business, you deem it necessary for me to run a business. That's why the "doctor" part also sounds so bad. You don't need to know every bit of medicine to be a doctor anyway. Your grasping at what he's saying. An HR department wouldn't be bad you have a point there. I'm pretty sure I wrote a rather comprehensive and simple statement. A HR department wouldn't be bad doesn't mean that it's necessary.Salaries are also not difficult to assess, set an upper limit to how much you could pay your employees and then set the lower limit depending on the market, hell, you can just set them both depending on the market. Why would I question something I don't have a problem with or completely agree with. I am allowed to post as you are. No no, the issue is that you actually agree with it, hence why you don't question it, which is very weird. Also, if you claim you are allowed "just like me", what did you imply here?If you want to partake in the discussion say something that hasn't been said or questioned already. |
ImmahnoobFeb 14, 2020 2:47 AM
Play League of Legends here! Autocrat said: Hitler was good, objectively. |
| Way too late! This system should be existed years ago, but let's see the effect of this system to see actual scores and results. |
 |
I think i know what an analogy is. The "undertanding "you're doing can only be surface level compared to someone who has credentials. That means if i had a disease i'd know bur i would probably ask a specific doctor right? why'd you ignore the rest of the quote. I was agreeing with you though, my statement means that they are normally a net positive for business. I can agree with whatever I want just like you can agree whatever you want. We are humans. |
| The Pickled Cactus Himself. |
| @GoodZoom You can assume that my understanding is of a "surface level" because of "lacking credentials", but you have no right to have such a bias when you yourself seem to be an amateur, and if you do, you clearly aren't reading what I'm saying. You take a statement for what worth it has, not for who says it, or maybe you're saying that's not your style? Then you're the one that lacks credibility in the end. Why would anyone care what you think at this point? Anyway, my analogy still stands, is my point. I can agree with whatever I want just like you can agree whatever you want. We are humans. You don't seem like the type that lets people have their own opinions, to be fair. You agree with a system that differentiates between new members and regular members (elites and veterans), not allowing them to have their opinions counted when everyone else's are. You don't see the dissonance? Hence why this is also an important point. |
Play League of Legends here! Autocrat said: Hitler was good, objectively. |
| @Immahnoob Last reply since I don't wanna clutter with my junk. Never made mention of the objectivity or lack thereof here. I just find it funny that the "restrictions" become moot when someone actually uses the site for longer than 5 seconds. Far from the best solution, but the people on opposing sides are making huge leaps. I also appeased to OP in that comment, so they'd hopefully stop. Definitely didn't need to add anything in that clusterfuck but hindsight is great isn't it? |
|
ImbalancedEmblem said: Fine, but I'll say this as a last thing. If the restrictions become moot after 5 seconds as you say, then they're not even worth implementing.@Immahnoob Last reply since I don't wanna clutter with my junk. Never made mention of the objectivity or lack thereof here. I just find it funny that the "restrictions" become moot when someone actually uses the site for longer than 5 seconds. Far from the best solution, but the people on opposing sides are making huge leaps. I also appeased to OP in that comment, so they'd hopefully stop. Definitely didn't need to add anything in that clusterfuck but hindsight is great isn't it? I'd say you'd be wrong though, I'm sure you need a certain amount of activity or time on MAL before your account counts, and you also need a certain amount of anime (which indeed, would take a few minutes). This isn't only an issue of waste of resources, it's also an issue of unnecessary differentiation. |
Play League of Legends here! Autocrat said: Hitler was good, objectively. |
| These people act like its their duty to keep the scores as they see fit. Like someone new should not see IR in top 100 or something. Remember Steam did not remove it's rating system after all the review bombings. That's because you can't have it both ways. You either have a community score or you don't. And brigading is just part of a community score. If Pewdiepie came out and said he liked or hated this show, I bet people will change their scores. He doesn't even have to tell anyone to do it. Now that MAL admins have decided to remove or not count scores made from legit accounts. They have also made the community based scoring system invalid. |
Immahnoob said: @GoodZoom You can assume that my understanding is of a "surface level" because of "lacking credentials", but you have no right to have such a bias when you yourself seem to be an amateur, and if you do, you clearly aren't reading what I'm saying. You take a statement for what worth it has, not for who says it, or maybe you're saying that's not your style? Then you're the one that lacks credibility in the end. Why would anyone care what you think at this point? Anyway, my analogy still stands, is my point. I can agree with whatever I want just like you can agree whatever you want. We are humans. You don't seem like the type that lets people have their own opinions, to be fair. You agree with a system that differentiates between new members and regular members (elites and veterans), not allowing them to have their opinions counted when everyone else's are. You don't see the dissonance? Hence why this is also an important point. I am an amateur, so i don't tell people how to run their businesses. No bias here, mate check my non-existent review for IR. Your analogy is weak there is no defending that. Standing on whatever cheap cardboard they use in fake Yu-Gi-Oh cards. Im not crucifying you for your opinions right I mean i am no carpenter. The weak shall become the Elite the vetting process is happening Mwahahaha! That's the master Plan I can't wait until the mods will just remove the rankings entirely and only have Gintama as our supreme anime. /s |
| The Pickled Cactus Himself. |
Immahnoob said: @GoodZoom You can assume that my understanding is of a "surface level" because of "lacking credentials", but you have no right to have such a bias when you yourself seem to be an amateur, and if you do, you clearly aren't reading what I'm saying. You take a statement for what worth it has, not for who says it, or maybe you're saying that's not your style? Then you're the one that lacks credibility in the end. Why would anyone care what you think at this point? Anyway, my analogy still stands, is my point. I can agree with whatever I want just like you can agree whatever you want. We are humans. You don't seem like the type that lets people have their own opinions, to be fair. You agree with a system that differentiates between new members and regular members (elites and veterans), not allowing them to have their opinions counted when everyone else's are. You don't see the dissonance? Hence why this is also an important point. You're making it sound like MAL differentiates between royalty and peasants. This isn't about higher rights coming from how and where you were born. If your vote will count more if you're a legit user (here for some time, proper list, activity) than a not so legit user, that's really not so bad imo. I know that at this point some ratings don't count at all, but what I'm saying is for the future, if they implement something like this, it would be harder for trolls to just make accounts and have an immediate impact. And trolls usually don't have patience to wait 2/3/6 months or 1 year to make their trolling. |
Fortune favours the bold!  |
| @GoodZoom I am an amateur, so i don't tell people how to run their businesses. That's your prerogrative.Your analogy is weak there is no defending that. Prove it.Im not crucifying you for your opinions right I mean i am no carpenter. The weak shall become the Elite the vetting process is happening Mwahahaha! That's the master Plan I can't wait until the mods will just remove the rankings entirely and only have Gintama as our supreme anime. /s This isn't even a proper reply. They are though. This isn't about higher rights coming from how and where you were born. Well, it is, you can suddenly be declared a pariah by the second formula or you're a plebeian because you're not old or that much of a veteran.If your vote will count more if you're a legit user (here for some time, proper list, activity) than a not so legit user, that's really not so bad imo. Again, you're not considering any of the previously mentioned facts.In a system where every opinion is the same, differentiating between them is unnecessary discrimination. I know that at this point some ratings don't count at all, but what I'm saying is for the future, if they implement something like this, it would be harder for trolls to just make accounts and have an immediate impact. And trolls usually don't have patience to wait 2/3/6 months or 1 year to make their trolling. You have still to prove why it's a problem for this impact to happen.I don't know why you're still arguing as if your premise was even proven. |
Play League of Legends here! Autocrat said: Hitler was good, objectively. |
Zsayel said: These people act like its their duty to keep the scores as they see fit. Like someone new should not see IR in top 100 or something. Remember Steam did not remove it's rating system after all the review bombings. That's because you can't have it both ways. You either have a community score or you don't. And brigading is just part of a community score. If Pewdiepie came out and said he liked or hated this show, I bet people will change their scores. He doesn't even have to tell anyone to do it. Now that MAL admins have decided to remove or not count scores made from legit accounts. They have also made the community based scoring system invalid. Doesn't steam mitigate that by telling you how recently the score was impacted now? |
| The Pickled Cactus Himself. |
GoodZoom said: Zsayel said: These people act like its their duty to keep the scores as they see fit. Like someone new should not see IR in top 100 or something. Remember Steam did not remove it's rating system after all the review bombings. That's because you can't have it both ways. You either have a community score or you don't. And brigading is just part of a community score. If Pewdiepie came out and said he liked or hated this show, I bet people will change their scores. He doesn't even have to tell anyone to do it. Now that MAL admins have decided to remove or not count scores made from legit accounts. They have also made the community based scoring system invalid. Doesn't steam mitigate that by telling you how recently the score was impacted now? Yes now that was a better way to deal with it than simply not counting people who changed scores. |
Immahnoob said: @GoodZoom How is it a false metaphor? Go on and explain it. Also, why would you ask for a "business degree"? I'm not talking about subjects that need debating, I'm literally speaking about definitions, first and foremost. You don't need any level of trust in anything that isn't "debatable". MAL, in terms of "staff", isn't big enough to even need a HR department, not like that would be a bad thing to have, mind you, but Mienus speaks about it as if it's some alien artefact needed to power the portal so we can save humanity from the invaders. Also, no, I disagree, you guys have yet to actually question or say anything of worth, why are you still allowed to post? Looked more like an analogy than a metaphor. Disease is to doctor what function is to business. |
Strayfe said: Yes, it was an analogy, but he used metaphor, so I asked him to explain it. Looked more like an analogy than a metaphor. Disease is to doctor what function is to business. |
Play League of Legends here! Autocrat said: Hitler was good, objectively. |
Immahnoob said: @GoodZoom I am an amateur, so i don't tell people how to run their businesses. That's your prerogrative.Your analogy is weak there is no defending that. Prove it.Im not crucifying you for your opinions right I mean i am no carpenter. The weak shall become the Elite the vetting process is happening Mwahahaha! That's the master Plan I can't wait until the mods will just remove the rankings entirely and only have Gintama as our supreme anime. /s This isn't even a proper reply. Yep weird word to use to especially with the definition. I already did. Why should I make a proper reply, that you can't understand. |
| The Pickled Cactus Himself. |
| @GoodZoom Yep weird word to use to especially with the definition. Did you not say that you are human? It's your prerogative then.I already did. Why should I make a proper reply, that you can't understand. You didn't, I've already pointed out how too. I'd say the same thing, why would you think you have the ability to even make an argument in this case, be it comprehensive or not? You've proven to me that you don't understand how this system works and how it'll affect the community. Whenever I pointed out a flaw, you'd just deflect and claim I should find out the "counterargument" myself. Kek. Posturing against me isn't going to help you in any way. |
Play League of Legends here! Autocrat said: Hitler was good, objectively. |
Joatiti said: You can though albeit doing it manually by looking at stats page one by one. I did it and lot of person do so to play whack a mole with bot.Here is a suggestion, let's us see a list of users that voted a certain rating (like going to a anime and clicking in "10","1" or any other, and seeing the list of users that voted that). I think I won't be the only one liking that and you would seem IMO less shady. The problem is that this could expose your rigging of scores when people see that real users don't really like your beloved Chihayafuru 3. |
 Kickstarter for Rokujouma is fully funded. Good work everyone. Lets wait for the result of our hard work together. |
Depending on interpretation you could also argue that they are treating accounts over a certain age as having credentials, while newer accounts don't. Level two waste management operators aren't exactly royalty ruling over level one waste management operators. If we go the royalty route, then it's more about blood line, which I don't think is applicable in the direct sense of what is happening here. Still this doesn't change the fact that there's a hierarchy now, but the extent of power one can exert over another in the royal situation is extreme, while in a modern credentials system there's not necessarily any exertion over one another, but simply a different access privilege. Which is exactly what we are seeing with the discounting of scores. Not a ton of difference, but it exists. |
ZakuF_Feb 14, 2020 4:01 AM
| The main issue for the Analogy is Credentials again. A doctor wouldn't have to operate on themselves just others to have some credits. And a person that at least knows what how this site is being ran or how it operates would have those credits. The bussiness men have more credits. More credits than me or you. We have none. Its not an all or nothing situation like you said, but man do you need some to get the ball rolling on some issues. Credit! |
| The Pickled Cactus Himself. |
MrTacobell said: Joatiti said: Here is a suggestion, let's us see a list of users that voted a certain rating (like going to a anime and clicking in "10","1" or any other, and seeing the list of users that voted that). I think I won't be the only one liking that and you would seem IMO less shady. The problem is that this could expose your rigging of scores when people see that real users don't really like your beloved Chihayafuru 3. explain to me how the Chiyafuru 3 score is rigged? if Mal really wanted to increase it's score artificialy they would still be counting the people who gave it a 10 as a counter measure, if you stop counting all the 1 in chiyafuru and only count the rest it would have t he score over 9, and as you see it doesn't have the score over 9 right now, the Chihayafuru 3 incident was handled slowly as hell, and most Chihayafuru fans are still pissed off at MAL inefficiency, if you wanna start some conspiracy at least show some proof and don't just make it all up They think it's rigged, because it had the most positive net gain after the brigaiding was removed entirely. |
| The Pickled Cactus Himself. |
rogiedog said: MrTacobell said: explain to me how the Chiyafuru 3 score is rigged? if Mal really wanted to increase it's score artificialy they would still be counting the people who gave it a 10 as a counter measure, if you stop counting all the 1 in chiyafuru and only count the rest it would have t he score over 9, and as you see it doesn't have the score over 9 right now, the Chihayafuru 3 incident was handled slowly as hell, and most Chihayafuru fans are still pissed off at MAL inefficiency, if you wanna start some conspiracy at least show some proof and don't just make it all up Its rigged in the sense that it’s a sequel so the only people going to be watching it are those who liked the first two seasons. I’ve never seen it so I can’t say if it’s good or not Should they somehow average the sequel scores or perhaps make a non-sequel list. I mean the second season of Mob Psycho is better than the first to me. |
| The Pickled Cactus Himself. |
rogiedog said: MrTacobell said: explain to me how the Chiyafuru 3 score is rigged? if Mal really wanted to increase it's score artificialy they would still be counting the people who gave it a 10 as a counter measure, if you stop counting all the 1 in chiyafuru and only count the rest it would have t he score over 9, and as you see it doesn't have the score over 9 right now, the Chihayafuru 3 incident was handled slowly as hell, and most Chihayafuru fans are still pissed off at MAL inefficiency, if you wanna start some conspiracy at least show some proof and don't just make it all up Its rigged in the sense that it’s a sequel so the only people going to be watching it are those who liked the first two seasons. I’ve never seen it so I can’t say if it’s good or not What a weak argument. Index III has lower score than the first two seasons, but the ones who watched it liked the previous seasons, right? By the way, the score before the bots was 8.60, and now it's 8.65, talk about a conspiracy. Natsume Yuujinchou had a very slow score increase among its six seasons. And +0.2 each season is not much for Chihayafuru, if you especially consider that there is no hype like for popular shounen which can get +0.6 from one season to the other. Otherwise, it is a well-known effect, and we can be confident to receive a tons of messages of crying babies in October when SnK S4 will end up in the top 5... (top 1?, can't wait for the Bot War Season 2 Part 1) If it does of course, but there will be more occasions this year. |
| Index I : 7.50 Index II : 7.74 Index II : 6.77 Souma : 8.44 Souma 2 : 8.37 Souma 3 : 8.34 Souma 3.5 : 8.28 Souma 4 : 7.84 Also Monogatari series fluctuate too (too troublesome to line up). Point is not all series get score inflation. In fact some series regressing over the time. |
| Kickstarter for Rokujouma is fully funded. Good work everyone. Lets wait for the result of our hard work together. |
NeoAnkara said: Index I : 7.50 Index II : 7.74 Index II : 6.77 Souma : 8.44 Souma 2 : 8.37 Souma 3 : 8.34 Souma 3.5 : 8.28 Souma 4 : 7.84 Also Monogatari series fluctuate too (too troublesome to line up). Point is not all series get score inflation. In fact some series regressing over the time. Evidence that people will dismiss. I do believe, however that sequels are a lot different than the original. Consider One punch man which just has an abysmal second season animation quality wise. Should the list discount a reboots too then? |
GoodZoomFeb 14, 2020 5:37 AM
| The Pickled Cactus Himself. |
| Sequels should not be on top anime list at all. I love Chihayafuru 3 but if it was taken down along with all the Gintamas, I would be fine with that. |
| Very nice! My friends and me debated a lot about popularity and scoring based on many things. The ranking was always a discussion topic. It's great to see that MAL is improving more and more. You're all marvelous people! Cheers. |
| Gotta update this soon™ |
Immahnoob said: Interesting how everyone agrees with @Mienus point. I'm not even disappointed about how little you guys understand how businesses work. I mean you, or any of the people who work on the site, are free to point out anything I said that's incorrect. This is just my overall impression based on other websites I've been a part of. But I don't understand why those that miss the point of the volunteer comment are the ones posting so much about it. What's up with this pattern? What is the point of the volunteer comment? Plenty of people have been bringing it up as if MAL is running on some "questionable" business practices, as Hero Hei puts it. The "point" of it essentially is to paint MAL in a negative light - that there are those few running the site who are seeing massive profits and therefore they should be paying the moderators in some capacity. |
| People who put MAL stats in their sigs are losers lol |
Mayuka said: Sequels should not be on top anime list at all. I love Chihayafuru 3 but if it was taken down along with all the Gintamas, I would be fine with that. It seems quite unfair to me. Indeed, people give a score for a complete anime, and quite trivially, will value more or less depending on the ending. Take Hunter X Hunter for example. I am pretty sure that the average of the scores given to each season separately would be lower than the current average. So the solution to take the average of the different seasons of the same series seems like a wrong idea (just proposing something intermediate between "remove" and "add"). And just dismissing new seasons would be even more unfair, because inflation is not automatic. It the anime is popular, then no problem, but if it is not and gets a high score, it may attract more potential viewers and benefit to anime fans. |
Luna said: S-Mazoku said: @Kineta Just wanted to kindly ask, why is it that One Piece was the only manga in the Top 10 Manga list to have its score lowered? It went from 9.09 to 9.05 (though it's become 9.06 now), so from ranked #3 to now #5. Every other Top 10 Manga increased, so I find it quite odd especially since One Piece's score has been rising naturally over the past couple of years (from 8.99 to 9.09). In the past, users could report rating troll accounts in the Illegitimate Accounts Thread. One Piece was one of the shows with most reports in this thread (both for the anime and the manga). What I noticed while deleting reported accounts was that for One Piece most of the reports were made for downvote accounts. The same also happened to other shows - often mostly upvote accounts or mostly downvote accounts were reported. Reasons for this could have been because one troll account group was more obvious and easier to detect than the other group, or because people turned a blind eye to one troll group for whatever reasons. This imbalance of reports was one reason why the "rely on user reports" method didn't work anymore and why we wanted an automatic system that would detect all troll accounts on all entries equally. So while I deleted a very large amount of downvote accounts for One Piece (anime and manga) in the past, the upvote accounts remained largely undetected (both of which helped in increasing the score during the past couple of years). These upvote accounts are now detected by the automatic system and the score is corrected to what it would have been if I had deleted upvote accounts at the same time as downvote accounts. That makes a lot of sense and thank you for all of your hard work over the years! From what you said this new system is much more reliable. Also, a couple of months ago the OP subreddit noticed that One Piece suddenly and unusually got like 200 downvotes over the course of like 1 week (which lowered its rating), but during that time it also got like 500 upvotes or something (which was usual). It seemed to get like 500 upvotes (10) every week. So does this mean that of the 500 upvotes for the One Piece manga, most of them were bots? |
S-MazokuFeb 14, 2020 7:59 AM
Joatiti said: I'm just tired of the "only bots or idiots like this" you are not better than anyone else. You should let people present their opinion, even if they go against yours. But now the score will just a refletion of the opinion by MAL royalty and shows like IR are forbiden to go above 8 in Score. It's sad, I've used MAL as a reference since I started watching anime and reading manga. Guess I will have to start to rate anime in a piece of paper and leave it there. Kineta specifically said to read the whole post to prevent false information from spreading. So please do that.  |
Ardanaz said: Joatiti said: I'm just tired of the "only bots or idiots like this" you are not better than anyone else. You should let people present their opinion, even if they go against yours. But now the score will just a refletion of the opinion by MAL royalty and shows like IR are forbiden to go above 8 in Score. It's sad, I've used MAL as a reference since I started watching anime and reading manga. Guess I will have to start to rate anime in a piece of paper and leave it there. Kineta specifically said to read the whole post to prevent false information from spreading. So please do that. Why should I believe in score manipulators? What I saw was a score triggering people and then users being silenced |
| So many wins here, but I'm also just particularly glad about pingu in the city getting nerfed |
 |
Joatiti said: Why should I believe in score manipulators? What I saw was a score triggering people and then users being silenced Then don't believe it. What you saw isn't what happened. Users vote brigaded and made alt accounts to boost a certain show, effectively letting a youtuber control the top 10. It's not good for the site if people can just tell their audiences to vote in a certain way just to get the top list to be how they want it to be. If you want to believe that is us silencing people (which it isn't), then that's your choice. |
More topics from this board
» Favorites Boosting Accounts: Ranking Recalculations ( 1 2 3 4 5 ... Last Page )Kineta - May 6, 2021 |
408 |
by Heighte02
»»
4 hours ago |
|
» Related Anime/Manga Section Changes ( 1 2 3 )Kineta - May 23 |
104 |
by Adnash
»»
Jun 7, 12:49 AM |
|
» [Challenge] You Should Read This Manga 2024 ( 1 2 3 4 5 )Kineta - Feb 23 |
247 |
by Bell_cz
»»
Jun 6, 11:22 AM |
|
» MAL Game "Fantasy Anime League" Opens for Spring 2024 ( 1 2 3 )Kineta - Mar 17 |
146 |
by Shadelurker
»»
Jun 6, 9:38 AM |
|
» [Update May 24] Interest Stacks: New feature for custom theme lists and challenges ( 1 2 3 4 5 )Kineta - Apr 6, 2022 |
204 |
by Someone_Someone_
»»
Jun 6, 6:44 AM |