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dannymilk said: holy moly this dude is like three steps ahead of everyone trying to get him Big facts. Itsuki is an evil genius with a goal, and a plan to reach that goal. Seizaki's only option now is to figure out his plan before he finishes it and stop him before he can take over. |
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Ilovebeanbag said: Yeah I agree. His wife has a huge death flag on her head. I just hope nothing happens to the kid at least. Yeah that was a poor debate. But it was intentionally written to give itsuki an edge by the writer. There are hints that assistant and pony tail inspector will die though. Really want to know how Magase fits in all this. Is she working alone or itsuki controlling her? The kidnapping will not go well. All amazing points. That kid and her mom better be safe. Yeah, I know that was the intention, that was my entire point, but there's a surprising amount of people who are so deadened to written bullshit that they think it was such a great debate and that all the points were "really good." If you think about it, they're not. I don't mind the assistant dying, but pony tail BETTER stay alive. I love him. Everyone's idea that Magase and Itsuki are siblings is actually a really good interpretation. I don't necessarily agree, but I will not deny that it is a really excellent point. Your point that Magase might be being controlled by Itsuki is also a great point, but I believe it could be the other way around. It would be really interesting if towards the end we learned that, the seemingly ignorant, Ai Magase is actually in control of Itsuki and that all of this was her plan. But, I do think you're right, and that my point is just good to keep in mind as the show goes on. I do think that Itsuki has some sort of control over Magase, whether it be emotional or the fact that she has a chance at having power (maybe Itsuki is just supplementing power that Magase has wanted all along; not to just control the people around her, but the world). - If they're long lost siblings, that would explain that Itsuki is independent to make his own choices and her control is absent in him. - If they aren't, it's possible Magase might have control over him. - Itsuki might just be unable to be controlled by Magase somehow. - Itsuki and Magase might just be teamed up to control the world. - Itsuki might have convinced Magase that he could get Magase to a point in power to control the masses of people. Sorry, this whole thing was a mouthful. |
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| Ignoring every point except these to keep my comment short, Ilovebeanbag said: Magase comment 'i miss you'at the last episode totally creeped me out? Like WHAT? It was a good twist. If she can control any man,*why isn't seizaki already Dead?* Does she like to play around with him? Or Magase isn't as powerful as we think she is. Or is seizaki is like super max mental strength? Also I think suicide did not happen because of seduction alone, then *how did women commit suicide too?* It's not right to say every woman was lesbian on the 64 people death incident. Can Magase seduce women too? Seizaki - There's no doubt that Magase is attracted to him, whether emotionally, sexually, or simply because of the thrill that he's chasing her and trying to take her down. She absolutely likes to play around with Seizaki, and he is absolutely vulnerable due to his position, point of views, and his family, and she knows that. I think it's possible that there are those so mentally and emotionally strong that they can't be controlled by Magase, which it's possible Seizaki is an example, but I think Magase is merely choosing not to control Seizaki. And maybe she's choosing not to all because of his strong mentality? Seduction - When they say seduction, I think they're going for the definition that is unrelated to sex, because seduction has more uses than just a sexual meaning. She's seducing them to follow her command or commit suicide, not having sex with them in order for them to commit suicide. Though, obviously, as we've seen in a previous episode, her seduction can definitely be sexual. P.S, thanks for keeping the conversation going, I find this really interesting. |
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| What the EF! it was mind blown by this episode! and i thought Nomaru's speech was so powerful and moving but it was a shockers! damn! 5/5. |
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| Itsuki pulled an UNO reverse card Agreed, the debate was dumb, just because most of the topics were relevant of today's society irl doesn't mean they are well written |
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| damn, that went by quick I need next week's episode now and need more Magase lol |
phynto said: Yeah, I know that was the intention, that was my entire point, but there's a surprising amount of people who are so deadened to written bullshit that they think it was such a great debate and that all the points were "really good." If you think about it, they're not. Just butting in here. But I actually get neither side to this? Neither the people claiming it was such a great debate nor the people claiming it was really poorly written, because in my eyes this wasn't a debate at all. It was the beginning of a debate, the first five or so minutes of a discussion that would normally have gone on for about an hour, but then was cut short. And I think it's super weird to judge those five minutes like a whole debate when it was never meant to be? In my experience, first arguments in public debates tend to be pretty shallow because they're either fleshed out more during the runtime or the better arguments are saved for later (since it is something of a rule to always end with your strongest argument). The plan to bring out the kid was in general a good one, since his argument was mainly based on and around emotional response and what could better demonstrate this than bringing out a scared kid. I'm not too sure about their seemingly shallow background checks and so on but I'm going to wait if they give more information on that in the next episode before judging this. And at least for the anime episode itself this stunt was well placed, since it allowed the actual debate to be cut short before having to go into too much detail. Though I personally would have liked the discussion to have gone on a little longer before dropping that bombshell on us. This way the points could have been a little more fleshed out, allowing actual discussion on this, but I guess there wasn't enough time for that. What I also found interesting was Seizaki's decision to kidnap Itsuki. Not necessarily because of actual suspense or anything, but on a more abstract level. We can see Seizaki's definition of "justice" shifting, with him actively going against the law to enforce something he thinks is right. There is a lot of potential there and I am really excited to see, where the series will lead him and his views over time. |
TasseKaffee said: Just butting in here. But I actually get neither side to this? Neither the people claiming it was such a great debate nor the people claiming it was really poorly written, because in my eyes this wasn't a debate at all I get what your saying in terms of them not behaving exactly as it was a debate, but had you paid attention to the show at all up until now it was clearly meant to be a debate between the candidates and Itsuki on whether or not the Suicide Law should be passed, as for voters to determine which of the candidates to vote for, based on their opinion and what they bring as a counter-argument. Assuming that you know it was meant to be a debate by the writers and you were only saying otherwise to point out that this debate didn't behave as a real debate would, I agree. My point of saying it was a shit debate was that it was a shit excuse of writing for it to seem as a debate. It was super short and only discussed one topic (though discussing any other topic would betray the subject of the show) and the candidates had brought nothing to the table to go against Itsuki. In short: you're right, this wasn't a debate. It was a really poor attempt at writing one. |
phyntoNov 12, 2019 3:14 AM
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YuyoGzm said: ...there were some basic flaws and errors on the arguments and with the way to introduce/use the guest (child). I didn't see anything wrong with the way they introduced Itsuki's child, before or after revealing himself. In fact, this was the only part of the debate that I enjoyed. |
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phynto said: I get what your saying in terms of them not behaving exactly as it was a debate, but had you paid attention to the show at all up until now it was clearly meant to be a debate between the candidates and Itsuki on whether or not the Suicide Law should be passed, as for voters to determine which of the candidates to vote for, based on their opinion and what they bring as a counter-argument. Assuming that you know it was meant to be a debate by the writers and you were only saying otherwise to point out that this debate didn't behave as a real debate would, I agree. My point of saying it was a shit debate was that it was a shit excuse of writing for it to seem as a debate. It was super short and only discussed one topic (though discussing any other topic would betray the subject of the show) and the candidates had brought nothing to the table to go against Itsuki. In short: you're right, this wasn't a debate. It was a really poor attempt at writing one. I guess, it wasn't clear what I meant then. So, next try: This was, in universe, the beginning of a debate. You are right, this was meant to be a debate for the voters to determine which of the candidates to vote for. Considering that, what was presented to us was in my eyes a perfectly fine beginning of one - introducing the main topic plus first although rather shallow arguments. In reality this would now go on for at least another hour, allowing arguments to be fleshed out and other points to be brought up. But this would make (at least for most people) incredibly boring three episodes and would distract from the plot they have going. So now they have to find a way to fit a debate that would normally stretch over a pretty long timeframe within about half an episode. One way is to approximate the debate, show us some but not all of it. That is what most shows do in that situation. What Babylon decided to do is introduce a more shocking / plot relevant aspect within in the debate. That being the kid. That is, what I meant when I said this was well placed within the episode. Because it allowed the actual debate to be cut short and focus on other things more relevant for the narrative. On the other hand, this means that was also the placement of that action within the actual debate in universe and this would actually be a rather poor placement. So I agree in general saying this debate is in universe a rather poor one (for now, we don't know how they'll handle the outcome of this in the next episode). But in my eyes this is not because of poorly constructed arguments but more because of the introduction of a new factor that came way too early within the debate. The arguments are shallow but this is not the problem, considering they're meant to be pretty much opening statements. The problem stems from the fact that the show didn't even pretend to go into greater detail but introduced a new turning point right after the opening. I don't mean to completely disagree with you. I don't mean to say this was a great writing choice and this was a strike of genius. I just think we shouldn't judge this as an actual debate because it was way too short to be actually considered one. But instead we should judge the narrative choice that lies beneath it. I hope I made my point more clear this time. I don't mean to attack anyone, I just thought I would try to bring another perspective to the table. |
| OH MY GLOB! That ending shookth me to my very core! The philosophy and ethics in this show is freakin' mad! Also that death flag did not go unnoticed; they'll go to the zoo together in the future? Yep, someone in Zen's family is going to die! |
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| That moment when Nomaru get "backstabbed" by Itsuki. Damn.......I didn't see that coming. |
| Really good episode, the debate about suicide law is so well writen and Itsuki responses was very convincing. An unexpected moment when Taiyo open his mask which turned out to be the mayor's own son. The receipt of the axe at the beginning of this episode is still a mystery... |
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| Itsuki be like: Damn, that was unexpected. If the son wins the election, Itsuki will be the one who will be supporting him, so its a win for him. And also, Zen can't kidnap Izuki now that he is with his son. They got bamboozled hard. |
| I loved this episode so much. The politicians gave valid & logical reasons/points - at least for me -. Suicide is bad cause it affects on economy - especially with a declining populated country like Japan -, and from a moral POV and a religious' one it's also prohibited. The emotion & humane side, I think it's an instinct in all humans that whenever you see someone who's trying to suicide, you'll try to prevent them from committing it (Well, at least the majority of people will do). But also, Itsuki has countered them so far. His points were valid imo also, although that I don't agree till now on the points that he used ( i.e. that these facts shouldn't be happened in our world to be brought in such a debate). I feel that, he had an influence on his son, he probably knew that his son will upload such a video and that some politician will use him as a trap card against Itsuki. Itsuki seems to be overconfident, I'm pretty sure that he handled a perfect plan for everything. |
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| Seizaki's family finally appeared for a bit, and working is important indeed, but working so much you barely see your son or your wife seems stupid to me. Well, the debate was interesting, and I kind of like how Itsuki never lost his composure. He was as ready as expected for it. I didn't see the boy from the video being his son coming though, I wonder how the election will go now. And if that receipt they found with the guy who died will actually mean something. |
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| Please anime gods don't let anyone harm Seizaki's wife and child;(. And it looks like Homaru didn't do proper vetting. |
DreddNov 13, 2019 12:09 AM
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| bruh Everyone got played |
| This show has some flaws but still it's enjoyable, it is clear that itsuki has trupm cards but the son was unexpected. If kidnapping doesnt work then just kill lol but ai is another problem |
"Everyone fails sometimes But dreams won't fade, dreams won't fade Let's chase them as many times as it takes and don't lose Because today after all is today and once you wake up, it'll be a new morning" ~Aqours~ |
| Death Note vibes at the end lmao. Itsuki is a smart one if he saw the anonymous child making an entry all the way from the beginning. |
| Great episode, the debate was hella interesting and as usual, we got a plot twist at the end of this episode too! |
| A surprisingly well written debate about suicide. My personal stance is that it shouldn't be legalized so as not to encourage it. And while that argument was counter by Itsuki's marijuana argument, my counter would be there's a difference between doing something risky because you're not supposed to and doing something that literally kills you. Almost nobody that commits suicide does it because they aren't allowed to, but people do do drugs because they aren't allowed to. Rebelliousness can make people stupid, but it's not about to make someone try to end themself. |
| You have shit taste, and then I have taste so shit it makes your taste look good |
| Can I kill Itsuki? Can I? Can I?! |
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ziad1419 said: Guys You don't deserve good stories You just should watch trash show like kimetsu and bnha Good show like babylon not for you Exactly They looking for logic only in the anime they hate lol. |
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| So, is the kidnapping happening? I believe the next episode is going to be a thriller. |
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| If all political debates were as exhilarating. Itsuki's chances to succeed suddenly feel a lot less slim, in no small part thanks to his son. |
MountainOfIrony said: EfiChan said: Can I kill Itsuki? Can I? Can I?! No you can't he isn't really real. I totally don't mind killing him in the anime :) |
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ziad14 said: Brother If you don't like this show should drop it Don't talk shit about it Babylon is good show You are a fucking idiot. This show is far from flawless, and you should let the man have his own opinion. This whole "I think this show is perfect, so you can't point out its flaws!" Thing you've got going on here is stupid. The show is not perfect, it's simply good. I invite you to rewatch every episode up until now and pay close attention to everything and you will notice every little error with it. You should probably stay out of episode discussions of a show written by a notoriously bad writer if you can't handle other people's opinions. Fuck off. |
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W8And said: ziad1419 said: Guys You don't deserve good stories You just should watch trash show like kimetsu and bnha Good show like babylon not for you Exactly They looking for logic only in the anime they hate lol. You're an idiot too. This episode discussion thing is made for critique of the show, not for jerking off the shitty writers. You guys need to stay away from episode discussions or learn to accept other people's opinions. This show is a good show, but it's not that good. Shitty writers cause people to criticize the show, and that's what's happening here. |
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Daniel_Naumov said: You are missing a big point there - everyone is being controlled by Magase, she is waging a war against society as a "hero surrounded by apathetic and ungrateful peasants". Itsuki is also under her control, clearly. The kid who is Itsuki's son strangely has a hero mask. No, it's he's not "clearly" under her control. That's definitely a possibility to think about, but there's a ton of other possibilities that you could read about throughout this thread. |
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phynto said: learn to accept other people's opinions. Yeah exactly , Why you didn't accept my opinion ? lol. Edit: I don't really love this show , for me it's only 7.5/10 however It's more Logical than the anime that has been mentioned above. |
WIIXAndNov 15, 2019 3:23 AM
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| The debate was really interesting. To see the intellectual clash was fun, but there were some fallacies throughout the debate. The plot twist of the masked boy being Itsuki's son was interesting. It was one of the only ways he could turn the tables in that situation. |
  We don't know what kind of people we truly are until the moment before our deaths. As death comes to embrace you, you will realise what you are. That's what death is, don't you think? ------------------------------------ Itachi Uchiha |
W8And said: phynto said: learn to accept other people's opinions. Yeah exactly , Why you didn't accept my opinion ? lol. Edit: I don't really love this show , for me it's only 7.5/10 however It's more Logical than the anime that has been mentioned above. I never didn't accept your opinion, I called out the retards who weren't accepting other people's. I think it's completely fine that you rated it 7.5/10, I'm between 8 and 9. |
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| So what do you people think? should suicide be legal? I think it should be legal and pharmacies should sell a nice drug to do it so no one has to paint the walls red with a shotgun to the face |
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