Sora_92 said: Another thing where to direct the frustration over things - first, the maintenance at hand. If the moderators had no power over the whole issue either, obviously they're not at fault either, but I think it wasn't necessarily communicated well, prior the forums getting to work again. So members could easily assume it's mods' fault. It would been better told at the start, it is not. and not on Facebook, Twitter or anything, but here on MAL. Mods couldn't have communicated here on MAL because we didn't know about the maintenance beforehand, and we had no way to communicate here once the forum was down, as only DeNA can update that maintenance info page. That's why mods were communicating on twitter/facebook/discord. Another issue I'm rather annoyed with is the thing with the manga database. I don't know a lot about the things in the background, but I heard there was a time - or maybe right now too? - there were/are no manga database moderators. which, if it's true, is a very big issue. I prefer to add manga to my lists right away when I'm reading/finished them. sometimes I run into manga that aren't in the database, which is kind of annoying. even more annoying, when I look them up, I find the entry, but I can't add it to my lists, because it's "pending approval". some of them are since many, many months. and since those entries weren't even sent to the database by me, I won't even getting a notification when they get approved, so all I can do is bookmarking the pending database entry, and check it at times. there are some that I bookmarked ages ago, and still pending approval. if they aren't meet the database's standards for whatever reason, decline them, and if they met, approve them please. Why does it takes ages to accept new manga to the database, when it goes much faster with anime? - and I think it used to be much faster with manga too, in the past. You're right, I think the time it takes for manga entries to get approved nowadays is completely unacceptable, users shouldn't have to wait weeks/months to add the manga they submitted to their lists. There's just not enough active manga mods right now, hopefully it'll get better once we get new mods but that takes a long time. Sorry for the inconvenience. SigmaticDoc said: You're still addressing my whole point in the sense that I'm the one claiming that they ''steal''. It's MAL who went and stated that in a salty manner on their Discord. I'm just pointing out that it's extremely hypocritical and double standards. I don't mind them getting stuff as long as they cite the source. I don't know the conversation, but I assume they were referring to some sites scraping MAL's database to create their own, which has nothing to do with synopses or news... But that can't be hypocritical, at best it would be a false accusation. We need to be stealing something from other sites for it to be hypocritical, which we don't, as Pullman said there's nothing wrong with using other sites' synopses as long as they're credited properly. |
sasalx said: Not even close. There have been no account name changes on this account. The account itself was created as what maffy already said. You also forget club posts, which are not shown.Maffy said: Only that account was theirs all along though; they created it. They also used that to create the "MyAnimeList’s Official Mobile App" long ago. Also, your proof isn't much of a proof, because do you only need to post in the forums to get a post count? Even if they had hijacked it, the threads would still have shown in their history :P If they had deleted them, then there would be no big post count. You would think someone wouldn't jump to conclusions right away without having all the facts in their hands :P Not that it matters much if it was new or not, but I just wanted to correct the misinformation <: Proofs are good but only you if you can present it right. I can't see a misinformation sadly. Maybe they have taken it before this incident and I am probably wrong on this part. However, I still think my point stands. As you stated, there is a mismatch problem. Posts are shown in search and post number doesn't add up. I said the same but you somehow used this as a counter-argument. Don't know why... Thank you for trying to fix something you think wrong but at least give me a info that I can say "Oh right my bad". |
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Jinbou said: Mods couldn't have communicated here on MAL because we didn't know about the maintenance beforehand, and we had no way to communicate here once the forum was down, as only DeNA can update that maintenance info page. That's why mods were communicating on twitter/facebook/discord. I see... so in the end it's just a situation that ended up bad for everyone, mods and members alike... I'm just saying, I (and I'm probably not alone with it) don't follow MAL on facebook etc. (because I barely use those), so info told there wouldn't reach me, and other people who similarly would rely on MAL itself for MAL-related informations. Though it does reminds me why didn't I looked up MAL's discord yet...? Jinbou said: You're right, I think the time it takes for manga entries to get approved nowadays is completely unacceptable, users shouldn't have to wait weeks/months to add the manga they submitted to their lists. There's just not enough active manga mods right now, hopefully it'll get better once we get new mods but that takes a long time. Sorry for the inconvenience. So there are manga database moderators, that's great. And I'm glad that you agree with me. I get that there aren't many moderators, and so work would be slow - hope this will be solved in the future - actually, I'm curious of this, how the manga database and entry approval works? Like, couldn't members help some way to make it faster? Providing links to other sites, databases that have it (like Baka Updates manga) and online manga sites that have it, or don't know. |
| He has a point. And I don't see why people would attack him for his opinion or tell him to leave the site. He might want to continue using it ... suggesting this to get it improved. I understand that the admins/mods might be pissed and/or some people want to defend them. There seems to be a bit confusion sometimes if people forget that there is a different company "hidden" in the background that actually "develops" (if they are in the mood every now and then) - which is different from the admin/mod team. We don't even know how many people and how much time they spent on developing. Cause they aren't really communicating directly. Only through limited info they put on the update page or they are giving to the mods/admins (who share it at twitter only). That said: I doubt anything will change. Best hope would be that from fixing the security bugs they suddenly got into the mood to start developing stuff. But I have extreeeeemely low hope for that. I use MAL mainly to keep my list - it is clean and simple (in the classic list design without CSS - I like it better than other sites with too much fancy visual stuff) - and for the forums: A lot of people use them. That's enough for me. All other stuff is not that good. (Genre system is the worst. But since I mainly only watch airing stuff I don't need it ... only people searching for older stuff by genre might find a genre system useful. If I occasionally need to search by genre I use other databases.) There are different databases for different types of stuff you need to do. |
Sora_92 said: So there are manga database moderators, that's great. And I'm glad that you agree with me. I get that there aren't many moderators, and so work would be slow - hope this will be solved in the future - actually, I'm curious of this, how the manga database and entry approval works? Like, couldn't members help some way to make it faster? Providing links to other sites, databases that have it (like Baka Updates manga) and online manga sites that have it, or don't know. Some users already do that which helps to some extent, you can put links or additional information on the "More Info" field of your submission. But in the end it'll still take some time because we like double-checking the information from Japanese sources, and because there's just too many manga to add. |
changelog_ said: @phantom881, I am not responding to any more of your posts after this. It's not worth my time. How is someone ignorant because they believe a service isnt good enough??? I didn’t say the service simply isnt good enough, I really enjoy MAL actually, I was saying that the development teams actions simply weren’t and aren’t good enough for a site as large as MAL which they aren’t, For a site as large as Mal to be offline for 3-4 weeks is absurd and to still be bringing back core features such as the forums months later is ridiculous, are you really trying to tell me that the current development team is doing a good job?, they should be fired and completely replaced as they’ve made it abundantly clear that they aren’t prepared to effectively deal with situations like these I still believe that you are taking things out of proportion. Firstly, let's make this clear: I'm not telling you not to be frustrated, even I was, but that doesn't mean you should vent your frustration on this site. MAL and DeNa are very aware of the fact that many, many users are unhappy with their failures. The last thing they need are people, like you, who are making and contributing to threads highlighting failures that they've probably already been scolded by from their employers—especially the developers. I agree that their mistake that caused the site to be down for over two months was completely unacceptable, but that does not give you the right to say that they should be fired. It's one thing to express a complaint respectfully, but it isn't okay to demand a developer's removal. You have no idea what was going on in the background and therefore it isn't in order for you to assume that the developers are incompetent. MAL's developers are not full-time and believe it or not, DeNa has other projects they must work on too. In no way, shape, or form is MAL DeNA's number one priority, nor is it their greatest generation of profit. 1. How do you know that I wasn’t a MAL supporter which cancelled their subscription? 2. There’s many people who are paying for the site 3. Yes I do have the right to complain actually…. it’s called freedom of speech Secondly, I would like to apologise and retract my previous statement regarding the matter of you not being a MAL Supporter. It was wrong of me to assume that since there was no way of me knowing. However, I would also like to edit an inaccuracy in that post too. I said that only people who have spent money no MAL have a right to complain. This, in fact, is wrong. Only people who have bought manga from MAL have the right to complain. This is because MAL Supporter's were refunded the money during MAL's downtime. The only ones who really lost out were the people who bought manga, since I do not believe their money was refunded. You are absolutely correct in saying that you have the right to freedom speech. You can say anything you want as long as it is not considered offensive, but that does not mean you should say it. For the same reasons above, myself and many others believe that you have no right to be saying such things. I truly don’t understand that you can’t see why people are complaining about a site they use daily for updating their anime lists going down for 3-4 weeks and then still recovering months later. I can completely understand why people are complaining. I just do not believe that people should be complaining for the exact, same, reasons. You're forgetting that access to this website is a privilege, not a right. It's when people start complaining about privileges that I get annoyed. 1. It’s a forum were conversation and dialogue is encouraged why are you here if you’re just going to shut people down by telling them to leave 2. I don’t think you understand the people complaining, were complaining (well I wont speak for everyone) but I’m complaining at least because I love this site and I truly want to see it succeed and I don’t want to leave this site for another, I’m a very loyal person and im not going to jump ship as soon as something goes wrong It's a forum where conversation is encouraged, not inconsiderate ranting. Especially not inconsiderate ranting about the forum. If you truly love this site then you should know first-hand and with common sense that complaining about it isn't going to change anything. I'm going to say this now: I don't care how "loyal" you are. If you have a problem with this site then please leave or stop making useless posts. You're not ready to jump to another site but you're ready to complain about this one non-stop? Haha really? This isn’t Nazi Germany I will do and say whatever I like, you don’t even know me don’t tell me what to do… This is just immature and inconsiderate. According to your "freedom of speech", I have every right to argue with you and make bold statements. Also, you can't do whatever you want, there are rules you have to follow on MAL. And the way you use Nazi Germany in your argument clearly show a lack of thought and maturity. That’s really really flawed logic, not “ranting” about something enables that behaviour to happen in the future, let me give you a hypothetical example if Walmart released a KKK t shirt with a racist slogan on the t shirt and nobody complained about it or “ranted” about it then Walmart wouldn’t see an issue with their actions of releasing that t shirt and would likely do something similar in the future. Not complaining when a company does wrongdoing makes them think their actions were justified Now you're just twisting my original statement to suit you. There's a big difference between some downtime for a free-to-use site compared to Walmart. The downtime was a mistake. Walmart releasing a racist t-shirt is on purpose (according to your hypothetical example), Walmart would not release such a shirt accidentally. Since Walmart released the shirt purposely, of course there will be backlash, because there are things inherently wrong and illegal with the shirt. MAL's downtime was a mistake and no laws were broken. MAL has constantly apologised for the downtime and not once in any form have they justified it. This is again a baseless accusation that has not been well-thought. What I don’t think most of you defending MAL see is that you’re actually hurting the site as defending MAL in this situation make them think their response to the downtime was justified, a lot of people are even congratulating MAL and saying good job which goes farther to make them think they done a good job taking months to bring back the site which is mind blowing NO ONE believes that MAL's actions were justified and not once did they try to justify them. I'll tell you my account details if you can show me an example of MAL justifying their actions. However, no one believes that your comments are right, justified, or properly thought-out. The problem is people like you who believe that complaining after the downtime will fix the issue. How can negativity ever relieve negativity? The answer is always negative. At least there are some people trying to positive, acknowledging the fact that what happened was wrong and a mistake, but are not senseless and unsympathetic enough to show their arrogance on the very same website. @changelog_ Well I didn’t really feel it was worth my time replying to you the first time based on the things you were saying trying to shut down conversation and basically saying stop complaining get over it complaining will do nothing when not complaining about something enables similar actions to happen in the future. “but that doesn't mean you should vent your frustration on this site” that makes no sense, this is the best place to vent your frustration, you’re better venting your frustrations as direct to a organisation or person as possible rather than venting about it to a friend in discord chat for example as the organisation needs to know there is a lot of frustration so they can improve. “many users are unhappy with their failures” You couldn’t even admit there was a failure until a member of the social media team expressed his/her frustration and also admitted the situation was completely unacceptable which in your mind somehow isn’t. “The last thing they need are people, like you, who are making and contributing to threads highlighting failures that they've probably already been scolded by from their employers” The last thing they need are people like you defending their unacceptable actions in the situation (I’m talking about Dena and the development team by the way) “who are making and contributing to threads highlighting failures” This right here is too good. You’ve done the exact same thing yourself multiple times you’ve contributed to this thread also and I’m not pointing out failures from the past. That was the guy who made the thread. I just seen the thread and started venting about my personal frustrations with the downtime issue here as this thread seemed like a reasonable place to do it rather than in a thread discussing anime lol. “I agree that their mistake that caused the site to be down for over two months was completely unacceptable” Completely changed your tune from your previous response “but that does not give you the right to say that they should be fired” Yes, I do apologise for what I said before I was saying that out of anger and emotion for the situation and I shouldn’t haven’t said it “MAL's developers are not full-time” Yes I know this now and wasn’t aware of that before, Dena has even more responsibility for this whole situation then if he doesn’t have a dev team dedicated to a site as large as mal and basically uses third party contractors “DeNa has other projects they must work on too. In no way, shape, or form is MAL DeNA's number one priority, nor is it their greatest generation of profit.” What other projects does Dena work on if you don’t mind me asking? I’m just curious to know. He should have a co owner for MAL then or at least a head guy whos main focus is MAL otherwise situations such as this will just continue to happen in the future and he will continue to lose more and more MAL users. “This, in fact, is wrong. Only people who have bought manga from MAL have the right to complain” This is a ridiculous statement to make that you can only complain if you’ve bought the manga, the MAL supporters have every right to complain, when they were going through the downtime they couldn’t cancel their subscriptions some people would of missed out on different important purchases and been unable to buy items which they wished to buy because of this such as games for example. Maybe the user was 5$ off buying a game and needed to cancel their Mal subscription in order to afford that game as they wouldn’t of had enough for both. “You can say anything you want as long as it is not considered offensive” just a correction here you can say anything considered offensive as long as it is not considered hate speech, there’s a big difference and I would give examples but… you know, I don’t want to get banned of MAL :P “I can completely understand why people are complaining” There was some mixed communication here then as I thought you couldn’t understand why people were complaining, “I just do not believe that people should be complaining for the exact, same, reasons” We will just have to agree to disagree here then as I believe if something is not up to good standards then you should complain so that it will improve and especially in situations such as the downtime issue on MAL so that organisations know that their actions in a situation simply weren’t good enough and so that they don’t feel that their actions are being condoned by the community. “It's a forum where conversation is encouraged, not inconsiderate ranting. Especially not inconsiderate ranting about the forum” What is this Nazi Germany Were you can’t give criticism? Once again trying to shut down speech “you should know first-hand and with common sense that complaining about it isn't going to change anything” This makes no sense, with common sense there’s no better way for something to change than when its receiving a lot of criticism so that the organisation realises that their actions simply weren’t good enough and so the organisation realises that a large number of people aren’t happy and so they can improve that’s common sense “If you have a problem with this site then please leave or stop making useless posts. You're not ready to jump to another site but you're ready to complain about this one non-stop?” This is just immature and ridiculous, Giving criticism leads to improvement and there we go again third time trying to shut down speech. I really enjoy this site and want it to improve so Dena needs to understand there is a lot of outrage over the actions in this situation so Dena can see the actions were unacceptable. “If you have a problem with this site then please leave” If you have a problem with dialogue and conversation which you have clearly shown multiple times, please leave “I have every right to argue with you and make bold statements” I’m perfectly fine with you giving counter arguments to my argument, what I’m not ok with is you trying to shut down my freedom of speech multiple times telling me to please leave the site and stop complaining. “Also, you can't do whatever you want, there are rules you have to follow on MAL” I meant within reason of course but that seems pretty obvious to me, I’m clearly not saying that I will just murder somebody if I want to xD “And the way you use Nazi Germany in your argument clearly show a lack of thought and maturity.” Telling me if you have a problem with the site then leave shows a real lack of thought and maturity “Now you're just twisting my original statement to suit you. There's a big difference between some downtime for a free-to-use site compared to Walmart” That’s an absurd claim to make I didn’t twist your statement at all, its all quoted right there with my response for everybody to see “There's a big difference between some downtime for a free-to-use site compared to Walmart” Walmart was just an example it’s the statement I’m making that matters and you’ve trying very much to clearly downplay the situation here by “some downtime” for a “free to use site” “Walmart releasing a racist t-shirt is on purpose” Once again it was just an example, it’s the statement I was making that matters that if you don’t complain when a company does wrongdoing then they won’t know there was any wrongdoing and will think what they did was perfectly acceptable, I could replace the example but I’m not going to as I felt that it served its purpose but yea as you pointed out it wasn’t the perfect example as Walmarts actions were on purpose, I do however find it intriguing though that you only argued with my example and didn’t even address the statement I was making at all which is clearly common sense. “NO ONE believes that MAL's actions were justified and not once did they try to justify them” It’s a large part of the community justifying them though that upsets me such as yourself until a staff member stated in this thread that their actions were completely unacceptable then you completely one eightyied on your argument, before you were arguing with me in your previous reply when I was saying their actions were completely unacceptable, you were making argument as to why they weren’t. “I'll tell you my account details if you can show me an example of MAL justifying their actions” Once again it’s the community justifying their actions I’m upset with “However, no one believes that your comments are right, justified, or properly thought-out” Firstly this is an extremely and immensely immature statement to make and I could say the exact same thing about many of your comments not being thought out, secondly that’s a truly amazing ability you have there were you can read the minds of every single person reading this thread, its like something straight out of anime, do you happen to be a shounen protagonist by chance? :P “The problem is people like you who believe that complaining after the downtime will fix the issue” No the true problem is people like you justifying MALs actions in your previous reply making arguments that their actions weren’t completely unacceptable before that staff member replied then you changed your tune. “How can negativity ever relieve negativity? The answer is always negative” Criticism does a lot actually for improving organisations and brands “At least there are some people trying to positive” As I said before congratulating them on a job “well done” is only hurting MAL, the more they realise that more and more people are upset, the more they will try to improve upon themselves so that actions like the ones taken in this situation will be less likely to happen in the future “acknowledging the fact that what happened was wrong and a mistake” Once again completely changed your tune from your previous post and properly acknowledge now that their actions were completely unacceptable [Edit Ive spent way too much time on this reply (around an hour) and debating with you so i will no longer be reading or replying to your replies) At the end of the day you're just in this thread trying to shut people down, shut down freedom of speech and shut down constructive criticism which the original thread maker posted whether i agree with it or not] |
phantom881Aug 14, 2018 4:56 PM
Sora_92 said: Agreeing with OP in many things. And don't really get people who say "it's all fine. it you dislike it leave!" the maintenance took ridicolously long (and the clubs are still not back), I think everyone have the right to be frustrated about it. Not because paid for the site, but it shouldn't be said it's a "privilege" to use MAL. MAL would be nothing without its members. if all people would leave, the site would be empty. (of course that won't happen with a site this huge, but that's another thing.) People expressing concern over things are worrying for the site. They care about it, and want it to improve. If you are content with the situation (which is clearly not perfect) it won't lead to anywhere but stagnation. If our ancient ancestors would been content with their situation we would live in caves, or wouldn't even came down from the trees, IMO. Another thing where to direct the frustration over things - first, the maintenance at hand. If the moderators had no power over the whole issue either, obviously they're not at fault either, but I think it wasn't necessarily communicated well, prior the forums getting to work again. So members could easily assume it's mods' fault. It would been better told at the start, it is not. and not on Facebook, Twitter or anything, but here on MAL. It's natural members are frustrated over the long maintenance, no one should say them to shut up, everyone should be able to share their opinion (and frustration too). As for other things that should be improved... I don't know about the "stolen synopsis" thing, I never really looked deep into that, but I think whether they are "stolen" or not, if credit is given, it's all right. and I think I seen credits to other sites, if the synopsis were from other places. as for other issues though... there is the tag system that's clearly no good. Like many other members, I told it in suggestions several times. but it appears (tell me if I'm wrong, but it do appears so) that mods never even react to that idea (except sometimes merge similar threads). I did realised it through several threads like that, that there is another thing making the solving of the basic problem more complicated, that is, members don't agree, how should it be solved, what new genres should be added, what are redundant, etc., so in the end, they turn into arguments, and lead to nowhere. But MAL's genre/tag system is clearly broken. there are tags like cars with only a handful anime/manga, while we have no tags that are actually genres like Mahou Shoujo, or Isekai (this wasn't a genre back when MAL born, but nowdays, it clearly is), and some other things could be very useful too, like sub-genres of other, like we have (but for manga only, which is also questionable why) the "gender-bender" tag, which is a huge umbrella with lots of things under it, making it totally useless if you're looking for something more specific or want to avoid something. crossdressing, futanari, transgenders, stories where random alien randomly changes MC's gender, and many more things are all under it, making it very useless if looking for any of these types specifically. then there's the other question about "shoujo ai"-Yuri & "shounen ai"-Yaoi redundancy. putting aside that the words "shoujo ai" and "shounen ai" doesn't even mean in Japan what they used for in the West (or so I read), it can be found redundant, why to have 2 tags for the same thing? - okay, some would say "it's not the same, because one is "tamer". If members want all 4 tags to be able to find what they want better, all right, I do accept that they have a place here on MAL, but then so would be other, more classified tags too. To help users find what they want to read/watch. I think, in the end, no tags should be removed - even "cars" is useful, even if only has a few things under - but just like that, more tags would be very, very useful and helpful. Of course, in the end of the day, many users use other sites' tags to find what they want, but wouldn't it be nice and useful, if MAL's tag system would be actually useful? Another issue I'm rather annoyed with is the thing with the manga database. I don't know a lot about the things in the background, but I heard there was a time - or maybe right now too? - there were/are no manga database moderators. which, if it's true, is a very big issue. I prefer to add manga to my lists right away when I'm reading/finished them. sometimes I run into manga that aren't in the database, which is kind of annoying. even more annoying, when I look them up, I find the entry, but I can't add it to my lists, because it's "pending approval". some of them are since many, many months. and since those entries weren't even sent to the database by me, I won't even getting a notification when they get approved, so all I can do is bookmarking the pending database entry, and check it at times. there are some that I bookmarked ages ago, and still pending approval. if they aren't meet the database's standards for whatever reason, decline them, and if they met, approve them please. Why does it takes ages to accept new manga to the database, when it goes much faster with anime? - and I think it used to be much faster with manga too, in the past. Some could say "but you're not a mod, you don't know how hard they work, don't say they don't work hard enough or anything" I didn't questioned they are working hard. but some issues are here since quite long, and I heard nothing about them would getting fixed anytime soon. expecially the issue with the manga database, which I don't get how even occured. The tag system used to be the same since ages, I'm not surprised about it staying like this, (though would be great if it would be improved), but when parts that used to work fine, stop working so fine, it's, something that should be taken care of, I think. ever since I joined MAL, there were many-many things the site. there are changes, some are for the better (like the notifications), some are for the worse (removal of not helpful button from reviews), but many issues were never changed (like the broken and outdated tag system). There were crazy times, like when [img] didn't work for long, or when the site got hacked, but MAL did always overcome them, just like as it overcome this issue of maintenance too, (but why does it took so long...), I guess I am a loyal type too, and I really, really love this site, and that's exactly why I tell my opinion. Because I care. not questioning that others wouldn't. I know many of us, members and mods alike, care a lot about this site. That's why, issues should be solved, and site improved, and improved and improved, slowly but surely to be better, up-to-date, to not lose in the "race" with other similar sites, and keep being our MAL for decades and centuries and anything to come. "And don't really get people who say "it's all fine. it you dislike it leave!" the maintenance took ridiculously long (and the clubs are still not back), I think everyone have the right to be frustrated about it. Not because paid for the site" Thank you! ^ @changelog_ "People expressing concern over things are worrying for the site. They care about it, and want it to improve. If you are content with the situation (which is clearly not perfect) it won't lead to anywhere but stagnation." Amen brother @changelog_^ |
Luthandorius said: He has a point. And I don't see why people would attack him for his opinion or tell him to leave the site. He might want to continue using it ... suggesting this to get it improved. I understand that the admins/mods might be pissed and/or some people want to defend them. There seems to be a bit confusion sometimes if people forget that there is a different company "hidden" in the background that actually "develops" (if they are in the mood every now and then) - which is different from the admin/mod team. We don't even know how many people and how much time they spent on developing. Cause they aren't really communicating directly. Only through limited info they put on the update page or they are giving to the mods/admins (who share it at twitter only). That said: I doubt anything will change. Best hope would be that from fixing the security bugs they suddenly got into the mood to start developing stuff. But I have extreeeeemely low hope for that. I use MAL mainly to keep my list - it is clean and simple (in the classic list design without CSS - I like it better than other sites with too much fancy visual stuff) - and for the forums: A lot of people use them. That's enough for me. All other stuff is not that good. (Genre system is the worst. But since I mainly only watch airing stuff I don't need it ... only people searching for older stuff by genre might find a genre system useful. If I occasionally need to search by genre I use other databases.) There are different databases for different types of stuff you need to do. "He has a point. And I don't see why people would attack him for his opinion or tell him to leave the site. He might want to continue using it ... suggesting this to get it improved." Amen thank you @changelog_ |
Jinbou said: Some users already do that which helps to some extent, you can put links or additional information on the "More Info" field of your submission. But in the end it'll still take some time because we like double-checking the information from Japanese sources, and because there's just too many manga to add. But what about the entries that weren't submitted by me? I can't edit those, can I? And then there's no way to help with those entries, that someone else did submited, but they're pending approval. And what exactly "double-checking" means in this context? Making sure said manga exists? I think if there is a submitted entry, and check baka updates, and some online sites that have it - they might be non-official translations, but I would think they are enough to check that said manga does exists, is a manga (not webtoons, LN or something else), written by XY-sensei, possibly finding chapter count and other info too, expecially when it's finished. I know they are not official, but, does that means they aren't useful source of information? Maybe I'm too naiive and have little understanding over how the database works, but I would think, it's like there is a newly suggested entry of XYZ manga title, written by A-sensei, synopsis, etc. - check Baka Updates, M@ngafox, M@angaDex, etc. sites for it, if it's an existing manga, and have (non-official) translation of at least one chapter, they very likely would have it. If want to be extra sure flip into a chapter, and then can be pretty sure said manga exists, and is a manga. it might leaves some things unanswered in some cases, like what genres it belongs to (although most sites have genre tags too, but it might be slightly off when a new manga appears there, sometimes they tag it different and realise it only later "ah, it's actually a tragedy, not a comedy" or "oh, it's yaoi", but then again, MAL's tag system is totally broken to begin with, so it's of little relevance. It would be better to have an entry in the database even if tagged a bit wrong, than not having it at all, I think. Maybe I'm too naiive, but wouldn't that work? If Japanese info is needed, most manga can be found on the respective homepage of the mangaka who written it, usually easy to find (although that wouldn't necessarily confirm much, besides that the manga exist as is written by XY mangaka, I guess) I get that there are hundreds and thousands of entries waiting in line to be checked by manga database mods, but the number will just grow and grow even larger week-by-week - and there are new manga getting published and translated day-by-day, the backlog will grow so big it's impossible to handle - or maybe right now, that's how it is. I get if it looks like an impossible task to solve, but this is no good this way... databases should be as up-to-date as possible, IMO. |
Unyversu said: Let the dude share his opinion dam... Why do you all get so salty over 1 opinion? I feel bad for this dude now It even states that he registered on MAL -> Feb 2015 I think he has more then enough rights to share his point of view without getting toxic weebs smashing their keyboards defending the pride of an anime website lmfao ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Now on to what i feel about your topic, you have alot of good points and ideas that needs to be added for a much better future for mal! [ IN MY OPINON ] Please don't rage at me weebs. First of, the AniList has an years slider This is a great idea! Somthing that i now feel very stupid about not suggesting before you :o I really hope MAL takes some time off to implement this! Second of you made me feel stupid for not suggestion this once a gain! a dislike button to your reviews. This would help alot of people inclouding myself in choosing to watch or ignore an anime that i am uncertain about, if i am rating the Anime of the reviews witch i do rarely but i guess some people do it! All this is a great topic with alot of great points! and i apolagize for these people's rude behaviour. This will probably not stop the cringe kids from saying you're view on things is trash and that you can just go! and that you just don't understand... like i'm just gonna sit here laughing at them to be honest! hope mods see this post and does not get blinded by the keyboard smashers. Cheers,- Uny "Let the dude share his opinion dam... Why do you all get so salty over 1 opinion? I feel bad for this dude now It even states that he registered on MAL -> Feb 2015 I think he has more then enough rights to share his point of view without getting toxic weebs smashing their keyboards defending the pride of an anime website lmfao" I respect this dude highly :P |
Railey2 said: _Ako_ said: no, he doesn't want to quit, he wants MAL to be better. Can't you tell? He still likes this site, otherwise he wouldn't have written this post.In short, if you want to quit MAL, just do it. AL will happily love you there I guess. But this is the exact thing he's complaining about, people being stuck up idiots and refusing to even consider changing the site for the better. Instead it's all "oh look, MAL is MAL and if you don't like it you can fuck off". MAL got away with this for the last couple years because there was no proper competition, but that's slowly changing. OP is 100% correct, if this continues it'll eventually be MAL's downfall. Swagernator said: same to you. You're talking to someone who cares about the site and wants to make it better. Why alienate him? What on earth would you gain by doing that? I don't understand.No one is holding your ass here, you're free to go. OP makes a thoughtful post that he put a lot of effort into, and people give him this shit. Maybe IT IS too late. @Railey2 Massive props to you for speaking up against the people trying to shut people down on a forums site where dialogue and conversation is supposed to be encouraged |
Tomm01p said: Look, I don't really want to defend MAL here and make it seem like a superior site or anything (because it propably isn't anymore) but I still have to comment on few points. SigmaticDoc said: You have a single limited rating system despite people constantly asking for more so they can personalize their lists more, meanwhile AniList pulls of 5 different rating systems with relative ease. MAL staff's excuses that it'd be messy are redundant. There is absolutely no point in making more rating systems. 1-10 system is by far the most respectable one to rate any kind of media entertainment. Sometimes having 1-100 could seem as helpful, for example when you want to digest your one true 100 out of everything else, but you have favorites for that. 90% of the time, it's completely irrelevant if you rate show a 5 or 53, nobody's gonna question the difference anyway. 1-5 is fine but it doesn't have enough diverstity between the numbers to really be effective imo. Smileys are just dumb in general. MAL staff is true this time when they say it would only make things more messy. SigmaticDoc said: For proper statistics on anything you have to use Third Party sites such as MALgraph and in cases like the current one - where MAL's API doesn't work, you won't be able to even check your stats out. Meanwhile that's built-in your AniList profile. This was probably meant as a problem with third party sites in general, but MALGraph is not down anymore. Just saying. SigmaticDoc said: AniList and Kitsu both have global feeds, which makes up for a much more organic community. Absolutely no reason for MAL to have this feature. Forums are a mess as they are, and having a global feed in which 90% of the post are "good morning everyone, hope you have a good day" is absolutely pointless. SigmaticDoc said: There's also a dislike button to your reviews. People can know your review isn't well regarded without having to resort to reporting it only so they can get the same copy paste answer back from the MAL staff. The feature was taken away a few years ago for a reason. Literally nobody cares what is written in the reviews, as long as the number in the end is on the "popular opinion" side of things, it's always gonna get minimal downvotes. No matter how bad of a review it might be. On the other hand well written reviews focused on unpopular opinions always get downvoted to death. SigmaticDoc said: Bottom line is, outside of a few functions, MAL loses out on the majority of the aspects and it still doesn't do anything about it. People will realize it's slowly relying on it's popularity so it doesn't do anything and that the staff just simply doesn't care. I think you are a bit naive if you think the staff of AniList would behave any better if put into MAL's situation. And I don't want to defend MAL here, they comm in general is not great and it's true they are not bringing anything new compared to AniList. On the other hand, you have ro consider how many more people use MAL over AniList. The difference between the two databases is still incredible. That alone makes MAL a much harder to fuction as it is, which of course makes it more difficult to try and improve anything (also considering things could end up the same way the last months, which of course nobody from MAL wants). Also, the people who created AniList are much younger and less, let's say, corrupted. Staff of MAL was once also full of ideas to make something better. If AniList was the one who created this site years ago, things would be exactly the same as they are now. Also, when you want to write the things MAL does badly, you should also atleast mention the things it does well, and what makes people stick around. It has, by far, the best list-editing out of any site I know, which is the most important thing. Profile site layout is much better than anywhere else too. Its database is still very strong. Forums are livelier. I have to mention anime/manga list again, because it's just that awesome. Once again, I don't really want to make MAL as the superior site here, but making it seem like the lesser is also a wrong approach. It has flaws, sure, but it also has non-matched qualities that make people stick around. EDIT: To actually answer your topic. No, MAL doesn't have to change as long as it has the best list abilities. They should, but it's not necessary. I disagree with some things you said but i also agree with some, either way i really respect the way you made your reply, it was very respectful and thought out and wasn't just telling him OMG YOU CRITICISED MAL JUST LEAVE IF YOU'RE NOT HAPPY like some of the other "people" on here |
Sora_92 said: Jinbou said: Some users already do that which helps to some extent, you can put links or additional information on the "More Info" field of your submission. But in the end it'll still take some time because we like double-checking the information from Japanese sources, and because there's just too many manga to add. But what about the entries that weren't submitted by me? I can't edit those, can I? And then there's no way to help with those entries, that someone else did submited, but they're pending approval. And what exactly "double-checking" means in this context? Making sure said manga exists? I think if there is a submitted entry, and check baka updates, and some online sites that have it - they might be non-official translations, but I would think they are enough to check that said manga does exists, is a manga (not webtoons, LN or something else), written by XY-sensei, possibly finding chapter count and other info too, expecially when it's finished. I know they are not official, but, does that means they aren't useful source of information? Maybe I'm too naiive and have little understanding over how the database works, but I would think, it's like there is a newly suggested entry of XYZ manga title, written by A-sensei, synopsis, etc. - check Baka Updates, M@ngafox, M@angaDex, etc. sites for it, if it's an existing manga, and have (non-official) translation of at least one chapter, they very likely would have it. If want to be extra sure flip into a chapter, and then can be pretty sure said manga exists, and is a manga. it might leaves some things unanswered in some cases, like what genres it belongs to (although most sites have genre tags too, but it might be slightly off when a new manga appears there, sometimes they tag it different and realise it only later "ah, it's actually a tragedy, not a comedy" or "oh, it's yaoi", but then again, MAL's tag system is totally broken to begin with, so it's of little relevance. It would be better to have an entry in the database even if tagged a bit wrong, than not having it at all, I think. Maybe I'm too naiive, but wouldn't that work? If Japanese info is needed, most manga can be found on the respective homepage of the mangaka who written it, usually easy to find (although that wouldn't necessarily confirm much, besides that the manga exist as is written by XY mangaka, I guess) I get that there are hundreds and thousands of entries waiting in line to be checked by manga database mods, but the number will just grow and grow even larger week-by-week - and there are new manga getting published and translated day-by-day, the backlog will grow so big it's impossible to handle - or maybe right now, that's how it is. I get if it looks like an impossible task to solve, but this is no good this way... databases should be as up-to-date as possible, IMO. Yes, you can't edit those entries, nothing to do about that. I meant finding/double-checking information like the magazine(s) it was published in, serialization dates, chapter count, information about any extra chapters or one-shots it might contain... baka-updates is useful for synopses but that's pretty much it, it's a good site but our guidelines, the information fields in our databases, the way we handle some entry types are just different. And taking the info from Jp. sources is always more reliable. Yeah backlog is getting bigger right now, but it's nothing we can't solve. I'm sure it'll get better in the future. It's getting slightly off-topic, you can message me if there's more you want to say about manga DB. |
| I went to look at the other sites and they have a lot of nice and useful things I still like the setup of mal. I'm not going anywhere but I do wish mal had like instant stuff like the others though that's be berry nice. |
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Tyrel said: sasalx said: Not even close. There have been no account name changes on this account. The account itself was created as what maffy already said. You also forget club posts, which are not shown.Proofs are good but only you if you can present it right. I can't see a misinformation sadly. Maybe they have taken it before this incident and I am probably wrong on this part. However, I still think my point stands. As you stated, there is a mismatch problem. Posts are shown in search and post number doesn't add up. I said the same but you somehow used this as a counter-argument. Don't know why... Thank you for trying to fix something you think wrong but at least give me a info that I can say "Oh right my bad". Yea someone else pointed out that. I forgot that. My response to that: sasalx said: KatsutoSaki said: @sasalx I thought the same when I saw the forum posts count as 275. Well, there's a possibility that he/she posted 274 times in the clubs they've joined... It's a "possibility" since the clubs can't be accessed right now... Hmm I see. That would make sense yes. However, if it's true that's not a good sign either. You are the caretaker of a site but only answers problems related to mobile. Oh well. |
mhkr said: Energetic-Nova said: Did you know if you search 1970-1979, it wont show shows that aired in 1979 but finished in 1980. I mentioned to them to fix this, they said that it didn't need to be fixed. If this is a problem it didn't fix in Anilist also... Kitsu does the slider how I want. And not peimarily on anilist |
The anime community in a nutshell.  |
| I just discovered this topic today, so I'm sorry in advance for butting in the conversation a little late, but since It's been month that I wanted to take some time to adress the huge "manga database problem" MAL have, I want to jump on the occation. Jinbou said: I took the liberty to look at your message exchange with @Sora_92, but I prefer to write here because I do think it's too important of a subject to not be adressed here directly for more people to read and discuss about it.Yes, you can't edit those entries, nothing to do about that. I meant finding/double-checking information like the magazine(s) it was published in, serialization dates, chapter count, information about any extra chapters or one-shots it might contain... baka-updates is useful for synopses but that's pretty much it, it's a good site but our guidelines, the information fields in our databases, the way we handle some entry types are just different. And taking the info from Jp. sources is always more reliable. Yeah backlog is getting bigger right now, but it's nothing we can't solve. I'm sure it'll get better in the future. It's getting slightly off-topic, you can message me if there's more you want to say about manga DB. I'll get to the point: I think the way MAL have been handling the manga database updates those last years to be unacceptable. Here's a little story: Last year (in May), I went to Japan and came back with some manga I hightly wanted to read (the original editions, in japanese). As soon as I returned, I decided to submit those manga to be added here in the manga database, and I can guarantee I gave extra care to add all the helpful and necessary informations to make those submitions as smooth as possible (ISBN code; serialisation magazine; etc etc..). The result? I'm still waiting. It's been litteraly more than 1 years and a half now that I submitted some entries, and they are still not there, and I never got any message from any moderator to tell me at least my submissions were seen and worked on. Now, during the MAL problem we had those last 2 month, I decided to go to Anilist to see how they were doing, and I decided to test their reactivity by submitting exactly the same manga I did here on MAL one year earlier. Do you know how long it took for my manga entries to be accepted? Litteraly 2 days. So, no, I don't think that's acceptable at all, and I think there is a serious problem here. I hope to be understanded correctly, as I sincerely don't think the manga moderators are at fault and by no mean am I saying they are not doing works, because I'm truly sure they are doing what they can. No, the only way I can see it (and I would love to be wrong here, but that's definitly how it seems to be) is that MAL management and way of being handled don't give a damn about manga and people like me who like this place and simply want it to be what this website is advertised and supposed to be: a place were I can add the manga I have read and want to read to my list. And I can't do that, I just can't do that simple and elementary thing. For reference, here are the manga I hold the physical copies litteraly right next to me right now but were never added to MAL database, but were by Anilist in 2 days (I repeat, 2 days): - "Aoi Kiku" by Ikuko Hatoyama - "Kanashimi no Machi" by Tsumugi Taku - "Mizumachi" by Yuzuki Kazu - "Kuuya Shounin ga Ita" by Hideki Arai (I choosed to not give the direct links to the corresponding Anilist page because I think it wouldn't have been courteous to do that). I don't think I'm the only one that think it would only be fair to have more transparency from here on when it comes to how the manga database is managed, and to have true feedbacks on what is being done to catch up and return to a state where the community can expect to have the manga they submited with correct information to be added in less than 1 years (to be generous). |
DullboyAug 18, 2018 2:24 PM
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| Kitsu and AniList are ass tho, their "simplistic UI" approach is a joke and importing is a mess. Wouldn't be a surprise if there are shill accounts from the competition tryin to pour more fuel to the fire lol. And rumor had it that one of these two were leeching off MAL's db via API, gee i wonder... As others have stated, don't like it? leave then lol. |
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Dullboy said: I just discovered this topic today, so I'm sorry in advance for butting in the conversation a little late, but since It's been month that I wanted to take some time to adress the huge "manga database problem" MAL have, I want to jump on the occation. Jinbou said: I took the liberty to look at your message exchange with @Sora_92, but I prefer to write here because I do think it's too important of a subject to not be adressed here directly for more people to read and discuss about it.Yes, you can't edit those entries, nothing to do about that. I meant finding/double-checking information like the magazine(s) it was published in, serialization dates, chapter count, information about any extra chapters or one-shots it might contain... baka-updates is useful for synopses but that's pretty much it, it's a good site but our guidelines, the information fields in our databases, the way we handle some entry types are just different. And taking the info from Jp. sources is always more reliable. Yeah backlog is getting bigger right now, but it's nothing we can't solve. I'm sure it'll get better in the future. It's getting slightly off-topic, you can message me if there's more you want to say about manga DB. I'll get to the point: I think the way MAL have been handling the manga database updates those last years to be unacceptable. Here's a little story: Last year (in May), I went to Japan and came back with some manga I hightly wanted to read (the original editions, in japanese). As soon as I returned, I decided to submit those manga to be added here in the manga database, and I can guarantee I gave extra care to add all the helpful and necessary informations to make those submitions as smooth as possible (ISBN code; serialisation magazine; etc etc..). The result? I'm still waiting. It's been litteraly more than 1 years and a half now that I submitted some entries, and they are still not there, and I never got any message from any moderator to tell me at least my submissions were seen and worked on. Now, during the MAL problem we had those last 2 month, I decided to go to Anilist to see how they were doing, and I decided to test their reactivity by submitting exactly the same manga I did here on MAL one year earlier. Do you know how long it took for my manga entries to be accepted? Litteraly 2 days. So, no, I don't think that's acceptable at all, and I think there is a serious problem here. I hope to be understanded correctly, as I sincerely don't think the manga moderators are at fault and by no mean am I saying they are not doing works, because I'm truly sure they are doing what they can. No, the only way I can see it (and I would love to be wrong here, but that's definitly how it seems to be) is that MAL management and way of being handled don't give a damn about manga and people like me who like this place and simply want it to be what this website is advertised and supposed to be: a place were I can add the manga I have read and want to read to my list. And I can't do that, I just can't do that simple and elementary thing. For reference, here are the manga I hold the physical copies litteraly right next to me right now but were never added to MAL database, but were by Anilist in 2 days (I repeat, 2 days): - "Aoi Kiku" by Ikuko Hatoyama - "Kanashimi no Machi" by Tsumugi Taku - "Mizumachi" by Yuzuki Kazu - "Kuuya Shounin ga Ita" by Hideki Arai (I choosed to not give the direct links to the corresponding Anilist page because I think it wouldn't have been courteous to do that). I don't think I'm the only one that think it would only be fair to have more transparency from here on when it comes to how the manga database is managed, and to have true feedbacks on what is being done to catch up and return to a state where the community can expect to have the manga they submited with correct information to be added in less than 1 years (to be generous). This is beyond ridiculous. Definitely no excuse can be accepted. While it's good to double-check any information submitted, but to completely leaving the submitter in the dark for whatever reasons or difficulties is just not right. At the very least, the mod can inform the submitter and who knows he can even help with whatever information the mod needs. Yeah, it's true that the mods work for free yada yada. But it's just irresponsible to not do the job you are entrusted and you accepted by your own free will. Not to mention it's massively disrespectful towards the submitter as if their submissions are pure worthless. I would defend MAL for all the pluses MAL have, but this one is outright insane and indefensible. |
mickal777 said: Jinbou said: Some users already do that which helps to some extent, you can put links or additional information on the "More Info" field of your submission. But in the end it'll still take some time because we like double-checking the information from Japanese sources, and because there's just too many manga to add. If there's anything I can do to speed up the process please let me know... Main thing I have been doing is a link to natalie and include the authors name (sometimes with romaji if I can find it). That helps, thank you. otterman965 said: While it's good to double-check any information submitted, but to completely leaving the submitter in the dark for whatever reasons or difficulties is just not right. At the very least, the mod can inform the submitter and who knows he can even help with whatever information the mod needs. I think there's a misunderstanding, those entries don't get stuck in queue for a year because we're trying to find an information for that long, that happens on some entries simply because we never get to start working on them. Approving an entry takes an hour at most, usually less, there's no reason and no time to message the submitter about anything. The issue is that there are hundreds of new manga and LNs published every month, so there's a backlog and we can't find the time to work on some older submissions for now. Like I already said, I think this is unacceptable too, and I'm hoping it'll get better as soon as possible. |
| So, after 122+ replies, and 10 volumes, is it going to improve ? |
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Swagernator said: So, after 122+ replies, and 10 volumes, is it going to improve ? No, but the forum post count will ;) Anyways, they most probably won't lock this thread because then people will cry that they can't even express their "opinions" on improving MAL, etc. |
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| Those other sites you’ve mentioned. They might have a few better or newer things here and there but I doubt any of them will ever be as popular or more popular than mal |
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| Seeing as how this thread is still active let me address a few things. I'm suggesting things that I would like to see on MAL because I think they'd notably improve the website. It's not like I don't have things I don't like about MAL too, so everyone who's constantly reciting the ''if you don't like it here, leave'' statement. Well, I'd tell you stuff but it's against the guidelines. I'm not leaving, tough luck. So just shush, it's not like saying this brings anything even remotely relevant to the discussion. Also, reading upon the recent posts related mostly to the submissions. That's probably the part that needs to be fixed the most. Y'all quickly shut down the idea of accepting submissions through other means that are not this site's garbage system so focus on improving it then. As I said, I've posted an entry 2 years ago that is still pending, I have no idea what's happening with it or if anyone ever glanced at it, it seems like there's another pending approval on the site that is the exact same thing I submitted but with incorrect relations so I'm guessing they chose to approve the submission of the Elsword Light Novel that has a goddamn random unrelated hentai in it's relations instead of the one I posted. fix yo shit Submitters are what keep your site alive, don't keep them in the dark, notify them. They basically make the whole site for you. I sincerely doubt the database mods would amount to more than like 150 entries, given by how even someone like me has seen more anime than people who are supposed to be running a database with their knowledge of anime. |
AzurealXAug 22, 2018 11:24 AM
Anime List|Manga List | Discord: Azureal#2963 |
jal90 said: Basically this.As for Anilist, Kitsu and other similar sites, call me when their databases are competent and their social interaction is as well established as this site's. MAL still has years of advantage over them, and it's the place with the better balance between an accurate and extensive database and an active userbase yet. Just because these sites are promising and growing steadily doesn't make them yet on the level of a site that has run for much longer and has established a much more solidified community. I tried giving them a look, see how they work, but I just don't like their entire designs. Perhaps they are just too "modern" for my taste, but I've always preferred the simple and clean design of MAL (even after the redesign that I didn't quite agree with). Not to mention our database and its features that is years ahead of anywhere else, plus all those years worth of episode discussions and whatnot. I've been here for quite a few years, and I don't plan on leaving even if many of the users left. Sure it could use improving here and there, but at the same time I don't have any problems with it either. |
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| Considering all the positive points of Anilist over MAL that are actually present at the very core, why don't you consider porting to Anilist and holding your main activity there? The only reason MAL might currently have a more extensive database than Anilist is because it has a much larger userbase. Those two things go hand in hand. But for each active person that ports, Anilist does move towards matching in size. This is a matter best approached rationally. If you like the fact that Anilist has a much better API, is actively updated, the community and staff having direct contact and immediate replies, the devs actually communicating and being there for the community directly, being much more flexible and user-friendly, why don't you truly consider porting there as your main hub? A user by user and the userbase sizes can match. At that point, there would be no contest which is superior. |
| There are a lot of issues with the MAL and there are a lot of issues with people that use MAL. Going back to the whole reset-your-password thing at the beginning, you would hear a lot about people who have problems. Some of them previously deleted their e-mail and were at loss. Think for a second, how could someone on their own will delete their e-mail and not think of replacing it with a new one on sites they're using after not days but weeks or months? After that the site was dead and up until now what annoys me the most is that they were never truly honest about it. There was no "Sorry, there was actually a security problem. *insert explanation of what happened* We're very sorry but we fixed it, you don't have to worry about anything anymore. Probably." Their lack of transparency builds a a feeling of doubt. Even if it wasn't completely under their control, there should be some kind of communication between us which I couldn't really feel. About the score. I'm have reasons to be against it on personal level and to support it because I know that people are idiots and that you can't know if you like something until you atleast see how it works. Knowing how many bots and duplicate accounts just to boost scores are out there I couldn't give a simple fuck about global score but having too many options seems just useless when there is one perfectly working. On the other hand, how many times I had to read about people who don't even use full scale and instead of doing so want additional numbers or stuff like his simply because they don't want to "taint" their score since having low score is scary and means you dislike anime or something (like score itself even matters, pfff). If they had more option that would make scoring a bit more comfortable or whatever so I wouldn't have to read about them bitching about it, that would be good for everyone. Maybe one day, I would use these options myself if I see that it's actually syncing with me better, who knows. Advanced search lets you exclude or include genres but you can't do both at once while seasonal list has it and it works perfectly fine. It's fucking stupid that it can't work in 2 places. UI is very simple which has its ups and downs. I'd be nice if we could choose from few different styles just like we can choose between modern or classic for anime/manga list. Adding new entries, new pictures or characters is very slow and so is changing anything. I can't think of anything positive about it. Even if they take time to check everything or have a lot of older stuff that is not added, doesn't change that waiting weeks, months or years without any update is simply annoying. If we could check status of things we added - whatever they're been looked into or not yet, if they were denied or approved etc etc - that would be great. About the entries again, MAL staff said many times that demographic tags can't be applied to non-manga based stuff and that they can't be changed but it's easy to find original anime with them. They can't even keep up with their own "rules" which is simply weird. About the actual rules. Many people on here don't even seem to know that they exist. People who create pointless topics like "my waifu is the best", "who's the best waifu?" or "gimme random pictures" are common and who knows if they're not just a top or an iceberg because... ... no matter what social media site you're using, you're gonna see some cancer. When horrible subs added comments on their main page, it was and still is flooded with literal puke. I don't really care about MAL having global feed, if anything it's actually the opposite, I want it to block such pointless trash from normal discussions. I don't think that having a lot of stuff you called "garbage" is a bad thing. Some of them are actually nice, even though they're short, and I would never discover them if not MAL. I wouldn't blame everything on mods. They're aren't all that is out here. If anything, I'd blame the lack of staff since it could be one of the causes of few things like slow updates. There is a lot more issues I have with MAL or MAL community that I don't really want to bother myself with since I can't change any of them. MAL is prob still the biggest database so leaving clubs and not going on forum anymore is most likely what I'll end up doing if one day I'll have enough of all of this. |
HakaminahAug 24, 2018 2:36 PM
 I'm watching anime since 2012. I also play games, sometimes. Don't bother me if you want to 'become friends' or things like that. It's tiresome. I know you just want to collect some meaningless numbers. Thought: How many people sparked H. Charlotta just for blue pot? |
Hakaminah said: [snip...] I wouldn't blame everything on mods. They're aren't all that is out here. If anything, I'd blame the lack of staff since it could be one of the causes of few things like slow updates. There is a lot more issues I have with MAL or MAL community that I don't really want to bother myself with since I can't change any of them. MAL is prob still the biggest database so leaving clubs and not going on forum anymore is most likely what I'll end up doing if one day I'll have enough of all of this. The biggest problem is lack of staff and lack of transparancy and lack of updates to changes in the medium. Which are ALL reflected on other websites which list anime, stuff like having an isekai tag, a magical girl tag, Proper fetish tags. This is all standard with other sites. For example, Kitsu has an entire system which I love where they tell you individually when your database addition or genre tags have been added. https://kitsu.io/feedback/database-requests Like here are the database requests. Clear upvoting available to show support. Clear what mods/devs are working on. Here is feature requests. Same thing https://kitsu.io/feedback/feature-requests/ Same with bugs and mobile suggestions. Very helpful. Very transparent as a website. Even if it isn't the most "complete" type entries, I still feel this is better than what MAL does which is leave us in the dark about what is going on. This is how currently, Kitsu has a bigger character database than MAL does. Even if their character system doesn't include individual pages yet, they are working on it. As well as adding mangaka to the database and for those mangaka to be searchable. They have goals which are clear to improve the site. The same cannot be said for MAL. So while mal remains ahead in this area, it really wont for long so long as other sites continue to improve their services. While mal stays and parties like it is 2006 still. |
Energetic-NovaAug 28, 2018 7:34 PM
| The anime community in a nutshell. |
Energetic-Nova said: They have goals which are clear to improve the site. The same cannot be said for MAL. While the other things you say are mostly fair, I do feel the need to refute this. We have a lot that we want to see done on MAL and we have clear goals for those, my own personal project being the Featured Articles section. Unfortunately, yes, these come about way too slow but we strongly push for them regardless. Just because you don't see something doesn't mean nothing's happening. Kitsu and other sites do have a bunch of catching up to do, so they would seem to be doing more. Almost all of the "Planned" or "In Progress" features in Kitsu's Feature Requests are features that we already have, lol. Hell, they make references to MAL in some of these requests (e.g. request for Hanabado characters with a link to our characters page, Ability to see all the anime made by a certain production company suggestion with a screenshot from MAL, "Seasonal Section Similar to LiveChart or MAL", etc.). The database request page seems really inefficient compared to being able to add in the information through a form that breaks down the information. As a whole, we also manage a lot more information and features than they do by far. I don't think a system where you get to see every database addition would be a high priority for anyone; users get a notification when a related anime to something that's in their list is added and that's really all you need. Throughout the time that features of the site were being brought back up, we put out updates at every turn and have a log that you could follow, so saying we leave users in the dark is unfounded. |
Shymander said: Energetic-Nova said: They have goals which are clear to improve the site. The same cannot be said for MAL. While the other things you say are mostly fair, I do feel the need to refute this. We have a lot that we want to see done on MAL and we have clear goals for those, my own personal project being the Featured Articles section. Unfortunately, yes, these come about way too slow but we strongly push for them regardless. Just because you don't see something doesn't mean nothing's happening. Kitsu and other sites do have a bunch of catching up to do, so they would seem to be doing more. Almost all of the "Planned" or "In Progress" features in Kitsu's Feature Requests are features that we already have, lol. Hell, they make references to MAL in some of these requests (e.g. request for Hanabado characters with a link to our characters page, Ability to see all the anime made by a certain production company suggestion with a screenshot from MAL, "Seasonal Section Similar to LiveChart or MAL", etc.). The database request page seems really inefficient compared to being able to add in the information through a form that breaks down the information. As a whole, we also manage a lot more information and features than they do by far. I don't think a system where you get to see every database addition would be a high priority for anyone; users get a notification when a related anime to something that's in their list is added and that's really all you need. Throughout the time that features of the site were being brought back up, we put out updates at every turn and have a log that you could follow, so saying we leave users in the dark is unfounded. I donno, I feel like MAL doesn't listen to the high demand for new genres which are very much more apart of the anime community now than were apart of the anime community in 2006. People on this website are constantly denying that MAL needs things and I am really tired as someone who has come up with entire lists of 50+ isekai to justify the need for it. You require a lot of information on OUR PART instead of your part and since you double check it all anyway, it is kinda annoying. The refusal to catch up with stuff like Manwa as PROFESSIONALLY ONLINE published thing which is PROFESSIONALLY TRANSLATED AND AVAILABLE IN JAPAN. Is really annoying. You guys don't have any part of the dev team which talks to us. So normally, we don't know. And I don't care if it is "because mal has it" fact is, not all my suggestions or other peoples are automatically shut down like you just did. Why do people not think MAL wil add an isekai genre, a magical girl genre, a bara genre for manga, a gender bender genre for anime, fix the tagging system or anything like that? I mean Manga updates has a tagging system. I am not saying they are perfect information loggers, honestly, the only website I expect slowness from do to the level of information I see logged is Anime News Network. And that is because they are encyclopidias. Keep in mind, other websites CORRECTLY LABEL Yuri on Ice and No.6 as shonen ai. And I will forever stick with whatever website will kindly CORRECTLY label stuff like that. I am sick and tired of my opinion not mattering here no matter how long I have been on this website! Years of posting to suggestions and never once someone from the dev team saying they would do anything. Every website has a best quality. For MAL, it is stuff that other people developed as add-ons that work on MAL. :/ |
Energetic-NovaAug 28, 2018 8:56 PM
| The anime community in a nutshell. |
| @Energetic-Nova I never said your opinion didn't matter, I'm only responding with discussion, and believe me when I say I don't endorse people who say "MAL doesn't need to improve," it absolutely does. I don't appreciate that being pinned on the staff who work hard to do their best for improving the site. We don't "shut suggestions down," we take on board the suggestions that would be good for the site; not all suggestions are valuable. We have a long list of suggestions that we want to have worked through where it becomes a matter of time. Sadly, the owners gave the site a small dev team and the site is a low priority, which sucks :( we suffer from that as much if not more than you do. If something hasn't been labeled with a certain tag, there will likely be a valid reason for such. As I've said in this thread before, we have things that we do better and other sites have things that they do better: that's the nature of competition in products/services. If your priorities align with a different site's strengths, then go for it, we encourage going where you feel most comfortable. To reiterate, discussion/criticism =/= shutting down an opinion, it's selfish to think otherwise. On a personal note, I do think tags should be looked at. Don't forget that I, and the rest of the staff, are individual users like you with their own opinions. |
ShymanderAug 28, 2018 9:11 PM
Shymander said: @Energetic-Nova I never said your opinion didn't matter, I'm only responding with discussion, and believe me when I say I don't endorse people who say "MAL doesn't need to improve," it absolutely does. I don't appreciate that being pinned on the staff who work hard to do their best for improving the site. We don't "shut suggestions down," we take on board the suggestions that would be good for the site; not all suggestions are valuable. We have a long list of suggestions that we want to have worked through where it becomes a matter of time. Sadly, the owners gave the site a small dev team and the site is a low priority, which sucks :( we suffer from that as much if not more than you do. If something hasn't been labeled with a certain tag, there will likely be a valid reason for such. As I've said in this thread before, we have things that we do better and other sites have things that they do better: that's the nature of competition in products/services. If your priorities align with a different site's strengths, then go for it, we encourage going where you feel most comfortable. To reiterate, discussion/criticism =/= shutting down an opinion, it's selfish to think otherwise. On a personal note, I do think tags should be looked at. Don't forget that I, and the rest of the staff, are individual users like you with their own opinions. You didn't pay attention at all to the way Kitsu has it set up so I know what is in progress, how when you type a suggestion, it actually starts showing you other people who have similar words in thier posts. How They have an alarm bell for anyone responding to you. How staff actually do communicate with the users in the comments section. But mostly it is the clear way it states what is "planned", "in progress", and "complete". This opens a clear line of communication regardless of missing informaiton or features Kitsu has or how people want features mal has or want features anime database has, the thing I like most is seriously just knowing what the next 20-100 projects are. XD And what has been completed recently even if it is not me who asked for it. The social element kitsu has as well as being able to have an actual NSFW discussion there makes it my favorite right now for social reasons. Here, if you talk about some weird obscure anime, nobody will talk to you. Or a manga. There? There are many people who might see your post regardless of what page it is on. It is just a really strong advantage of a site like that. |
| The anime community in a nutshell. |
| @Energetic-Nova In the grand scheme of things, it's one feature of many. I can't deny it would be nice to have that here, but complaining about it here won't get that to happen. If you want to see that happen, make a thread in the Suggestions board. If you prefer Kitsu, then that's your personal preference and that's perfectly understandable. Different users have different priorities. Being a smaller site does actually benefit them in this regard because they have fewer features, suggestions, and submissions to manage and process. Personally, Kitsu lacks too much for me overall and the way they run their social media is atrocious. |
| There is no point to repeat what others have said, so I'll just answer to things that strike me as most stupid suggestions: MAL had dislike button for reviews and it was removed for a reason. BBcodes in reviews would be a disaster. Considering how long it takes to clear troll ones, you can be sure whole first page for any seasonal anime would be full of size=500 text and other shit. Then there would be people who think their formatting actually looks good despite it being unreadable (just look at some profiles). Tho I agree more statistics would be cool and 3rd party sites aren't excuse to don't add those. If MAL really wanted to compete with other sites, adding VN database would be their best bet imo. Not only was it requested for a long time, but it's also something that no other site has. Btw. accusing someone of lying, even if you don't really know if they lied or how much they knew themselves, is really low. |
JustAnotherShiroAug 31, 2018 11:04 AM
| I prefer the 'old' features this site still retains (one of the sad things is changing up the profile page). Reviews are best kept simple, but a spoiler censor would be nice - and locked to those who haven't seen the anime. The DISLIKE option was initially removed since some made it a goal to mass-dislike certain users' reviews (the same as how mass-favoriting happened until MAL implemented a 1 account per person rule). Global feeds is Twitter.. I would prefer a more personalized profile. In fact, it would be nice to have an option to privatize one's profile, at least certain aspects of it (like the comments). I think clubs do a decent job with feeds as it is. Blogs are somewhat global if you see the tab, but it isn't open to browsing. I agree about MAL needing more update outlets and staff though. |
 |
Terkhev said: No only was it requested for a long time, but it's also something that no ther site has. But what's VNDB?! I think that site has everything that anyone wants... |
mhkr said: Terkhev said: No only was it requested for a long time, but it's also something that no ther site has. But what's VNDB?! I think that site has everything that anyone wants... I obviously meant anime list site that, other than manga, has also VN list. |
OK, but it's against the rules: "Add X as category (X: Games/Visual Novels/Movies/Books/etc)" Anime and Manga is already enough work to maintain. As with the previous suggestion, the amount of work and people actually making use of it would not even out. |
mhkr said: OK, but it's against the rules: "Add X as category (X: Games/Visual Novels/Movies/Books/etc)" Anime and Manga is already enough work to maintain. As with the previous suggestion, the amount of work and people actually making use of it would not even out. I know those rules very well and I'm not even suggesting it here. It's just my answer to OP, which btw also mentioend things that are "banned" from suggestions. In the first place this topic was moved from different forum and isn't actual suggestion in itself. |
| If another site like Kitsu or anilist added VNs, I would honestly laugh at them. There's not much sense to it since it's a very different medium. We may as well add other Japanese games while we're at it, then we'll get endless requests for American-made stuff that "looks kinda like anime so must be anime" like we already do. (I chuckle at how Kitsu gave in to those requests even though it doesn't make logical sense). |
| Listening to the users feedback is a great first step. |
| Today they say you're crazy, tomorrow they will say you're a genious. |
Jinbou said: You're right, I think the time it takes for manga entries to get approved nowadays is completely unacceptable, users shouldn't have to wait weeks/months to add the manga they submitted to their lists. There's just not enough active manga mods right now, hopefully it'll get better once we get new mods but that takes a long time. Sorry for the inconvenience. The problem isn't inactive mods - the problem is that nobody bothers to add new mods for the site. When exactly was the last time new volunteers were hired as mods? At this point, apologies from mods are nothing but empty words. |
  |
Sonal1988 said: Jinbou said: You're right, I think the time it takes for manga entries to get approved nowadays is completely unacceptable, users shouldn't have to wait weeks/months to add the manga they submitted to their lists. There's just not enough active manga mods right now, hopefully it'll get better once we get new mods but that takes a long time. Sorry for the inconvenience. The problem isn't inactive mods - the problem is that nobody bothers to add new mods for the site. When exactly was the last time new volunteers were hired as mods? At this point, apologies from mods are nothing but empty words. March this year: https://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=1713605 October last year: https://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=1670309 |
Sonal1988 said: The problem isn't inactive mods - the problem is that nobody bothers to add new mods for the site. When exactly was the last time new volunteers were hired as mods? At this point, apologies from mods are nothing but empty words. Most of the review moderators are new I guess... you also can become a news moderator if you know Japanese But Anime DB and Manga DB Moderators are somehow old (Last Manga DB Moderator hired in 2014 but they recruit new moderators now... Check this for details) |
Shymander said: Sonal1988 said: The problem isn't inactive mods - the problem is that nobody bothers to add new mods for the site. When exactly was the last time new volunteers were hired as mods? At this point, apologies from mods are nothing but empty words. March this year: https://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=1713605 October last year: https://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=1670309 However, we all know the queue of anime/manga entries. Last time I checked forum mods were doing fine. I don't have much info about review mods but I don't see troll reviews that long so we can say it's fine too. Therefore I think we can say "we need Anime/Manga DB mods." I don't know what happened to Luna but since she stepped down from being an admin, I don't think one or two admins hurt. I also made a recommendation for Support mods because we clearly need them. To add that I made another recommendation for Event mods since events are fun and helps the community. Both denied by Kineta so ¯\_(ใ)_/¯ |
| Well, she is not gone however her staff status is "Forum Moderator". Sadly the convo between her and Arz gives no insight too. They probably talk about in via something else. Anyways that was the answer. Edit: Hmm seems like I forgot to tag you @EratiK . However I want to add something. cyruz is also stepped down from being admin it seems. The current state is worse than I thought. Losing 2 admins is not a good thing for sure. |
sasalxSep 3, 2018 1:47 AM
| Anime/Manga DB certainly need help, so for those of you keen to help out/have the experience and skills necessary, be sure to check this out. Actions speak louder than words. @sasalx I don't know about the idea of Support mods, depends on what the reasoning is against them so I have no opinion atm. On the point of Event mods, events are already run by staff members and other volunteers as a collective which I personally think is a lot better than dedicated mods for a number of reasons.
|
ShymanderSep 2, 2018 7:32 PM
| I wish this site had a layout like anivide/anispace did.... |
| Signature removed. Please follow the signature rules, as defined in the [urlhttps://theglorioblog.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/swordart10ass.jpg=]Site & Forum Guidelines[/url]. |
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