Aldnoah.Zero Episode 6 Discussion

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Sep 2011

3935

Darklight0303 said:

Sapewloth said:

Didn't he stop writing the episodes after the three first or smth?

That would be correct. Episode 3 was his last work

he is still the producer though

"Justice Never Dies!" - Kenji Endou, 20th century Boys

Aug 13, 2014 2:45 PM

#356

MrLief

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Jul 2012

340

MasterMeNL said:
Why did nobody die yet? FML
Don't have anything else to say I guess, but please let this not be like Gargantia...

I think plenty of people died in the first two episodes did they not?

Aug 13, 2014 3:37 PM

#357

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Sep 2013

613

y123y said:

mbdsquad said:
How the hell they're only the people that surviving while the minor grunts are dying around them? And how come the Vers mecha gets weak when they fight against Inaho?

Anime logic. Just have to accept it.

I dislike this logic. Just because many anime do it to the point it becomes "Anime Logic" doesn't excuse it from happening. There are plenty of anime that DON'T do such things. It is not excused, it's just a flaw like it is in the rest of the anime that do it. It's still bad writing no matter the series. Just because they need to make a scenario where grunts die but the MC's survive, doesn't mean they can just bullshit. It has to make sense somehow. Of course, the show just never focuses on the grunts so I guess we can just assume they are all incompetent idiots. Well, that and of course the Plot Armor for the MC's. (When the enemies randomly become incompetent for no reason other than to let the MC's survive or win)

KetenAug 13, 2014 4:07 PM

Aug 13, 2014 4:43 PM

#358

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Jul 2014

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Keten said:
I dislike this logic. Just because many anime do it to the point it becomes "Anime Logic" doesn't excuse it from happening. There are plenty of anime that DON'T do such things. It is not excused, it's just a flaw like it is in the rest of the anime that do it. It's still bad writing no matter the series. Just because they need to make a scenario where grunts die but the MC's survive, doesn't mean they can just bullshit. It has to make sense somehow. Of course, the show just never focuses on the grunts so I guess we can just assume they are all incompetent idiots. Well, that and of course the Plot Armor for the MC's. (When the enemies randomly become incompetent for no reason other than to let the MC's survive or win)

Gotta agree here. While it is often made this way in anime, it is really inappropriate for Aldnoah. I have no complaints about deaths of side characters in, say, Akame ga Kill, since the world there is kinda arbitrary and very over the top, but Aldnoah tries to be at least partly a war drama. It's inappropriate for it to treat deaths as a mere background.
Either Inaho's friends have to start dying more often or the grunts have to start dying less.

Aug 13, 2014 4:56 PM

#359

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Sep 2013

613

deadoptimist said:

Keten said:
I dislike this logic. Just because many anime do it to the point it becomes "Anime Logic" doesn't excuse it from happening. There are plenty of anime that DON'T do such things. It is not excused, it's just a flaw like it is in the rest of the anime that do it. It's still bad writing no matter the series. Just because they need to make a scenario where grunts die but the MC's survive, doesn't mean they can just bullshit. It has to make sense somehow. Of course, the show just never focuses on the grunts so I guess we can just assume they are all incompetent idiots. Well, that and of course the Plot Armor for the MC's. (When the enemies randomly become incompetent for no reason other than to let the MC's survive or win)

Gotta agree here. While it is often made this way in anime, it is really inappropriate for Aldnoah. I have no complaints about deaths of side characters in, say, Akame ga Kill, since the world there is kinda arbitrary and very over the top, but Aldnoah tries to be at least partly a war drama. It's inappropriate for it to treat deaths as a mere background.
Either Inaho's friends have to start dying more often or the grunts have to start dying less.

It's also about presentation as well. 0-Dimensional characters dying isn't necessarily a bad thing if it's meant to build a dangerous atmosphere. The show however is so in your face whenever one dies that it seems like it's trying to make you care about the individuals but you don't because they are 0-dimensional characters. Also it could make sense if Inaho and his friends had super mechs or something, or at least some reason for being better than they are, but all we have to go on is, "Inaho is just smart" and "Inaho's friends are.... Inaho's friends." so it doesn't really make sense.

Edit: It also helps when there are characters you actually care about and see them react to the awful atmosphere and scenario around them which makes it have a stronger impact on you. Hence why when Inaho doesn't react much at all to his friend dying it does nothing to make you care either. If the characters don't care, then why should you?

KetenAug 13, 2014 5:08 PM

Aug 13, 2014 5:38 PM

#360

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Jul 2014

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Keten said:
It's also about presentation as well. 0-Dimensional characters dying isn't necessarily a bad thing if it's meant to build a dangerous atmosphere. The show however is so in your face whenever one dies that it seems like it's trying to make you care about the individuals but you don't because they are 0-dimensional characters. Also it could make sense if Inaho and his friends had super mechs or something, or at least some reason for being better than they are, but all we have to go on is, "Inaho is just smart" and "Inaho's friends are.... Inaho's friends." so it doesn't really make sense.

Edit: It also helps when there are characters you actually care about and see them react to the awful atmosphere and scenario around them which makes it have a stronger impact on you. Hence why when Inaho doesn't react much at all to his friend dying it does nothing to make you care either. If the characters don't care, then why should you?

I agree that it is often a necessity. After all nobody has enough screen time to establish any casualty as a character first. Not that it would be a good thing too - I strongly dislike when author makes you know a character and then tortures you with this character's death just, as it seems, for sadistic pleasure (yep, I mean you, Martin).

But Aldnoah has a problem with how this stuff is handled. It's all so superficial: too much plot-armor and, you're right, reactions are not written well. The deaths of so many soldiers in the convoy should've had some impact on the people there. But Inaho is not emotional and his friends, surprisingly, are nonplussed too. Actually, the whole thing is strange. A number of pilots had already died horribly, so the newly drafted schoolchildren should've already gotten a lot more serious. And the most dissonant part is that, though Inaho's friends are obviously given plot-armor, they are almost as non-dimensional as grunts.
Marito's reactions are a bit better, but they too are mostly caused by the past, not current events.

Aug 13, 2014 5:58 PM

#361

Hannah_Ana

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Dec 2008

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Those Martians are despicable pigs!

Sent with Mal Updater

Aug 13, 2014 6:02 PM

#362

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Sep 2013

613

deadoptimist said:

I agree that it is often a necessity. After all nobody has enough screen time to establish any casualty as a character first. Not that it would be a good thing too - I strongly dislike when author makes you know a character and then tortures you with this character's death just, as it seems, for sadistic pleasure (yep, I mean you, Martin).

But Aldnoah has a problem with how this stuff is handled. It's all so superficial: too much plot-armor and, you're right, reactions are not written well. The deaths of so many soldiers in the convoy should've had some impact on the people there. But Inaho is not emotional and his friends, surprisingly, are nonplussed too. Actually, the whole thing is strange. A number of pilots had already died horribly, so the newly drafted schoolchildren should've already gotten a lot more serious. And the most dissonant part is that, though Inaho's friends are obviously given plot-armor, they are almost as non-dimensional as grunts.
Marito's reactions are a bit better, but they too are mostly caused by the past, not current events.

Precisely. Marito is the most interesting character to me only because he at least reacts to SOMETHING in a realistic way. I don't care that so far he is moderately useless, he at least has a character. Though him being moderately realistic just points out how non-realistic the rest of the characters are. It's a bit messy. You are right though, he doesn't even really react to current events in a realistic way, just things that happened in the past... Very odd...

Aug 13, 2014 6:17 PM

#363

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Jul 2014

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Keten said:
Precisely. Marito is the most interesting character to me only because he at least reacts to SOMETHING in a realistic way. I don't care that so far he is moderately useless, he at least has a character. Though him being moderately realistic just points out how non-realistic the rest of the characters are. It's a bit messy. You are right though, he doesn't even really react to current events in a realistic way, just things that happened in the past... Very odd...

Yes, it looks like he is the only one, who understands the danger they're in. I like that they haven't made him recover just yet - he is still useless, even if he wants to fight. Well, after his connection with the captain has been revealed, it is logical to expect that the things will go downward for him for some time. Maybe after a nasty catharsis he will get better. Though I am not sure that the Aldnoah crew will manage to develop his story well.

I haven't thought about it before too, but really - shouldn't the civillians be panicking, the crew mourn their losses and the inexperienced pilots to get ready to die? The atmosphere should be much darker, with no time for jokes about the schoolgirl's skirt... After all, despite Inaho's talents, each time the info, necessary to win the fight, was bought with blood.

Aug 13, 2014 6:28 PM

#364

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Sep 2013

613

deadoptimist said:

Yes, it looks like he is the only one, who understands the danger they're in. I like that they haven't made him recover just yet - he is still useless, even if he wants to fight. Well, after his connection with the captain has been revealed, it is logical to expect that the things will go downward for him for some time. Maybe after a nasty catharsis he will get better. Though I am not sure that the Aldnoah crew will manage to develop his story well.

I haven't thought about it before too, but really - shouldn't the civillians be panicking, the crew mourn their losses and the inexperienced pilots to get ready to die? The atmosphere should be much darker, with no time for jokes about the schoolgirl's skirt... After all, despite Inaho's talents, each time the info, necessary to win the fight, was bought with blood.

Another reason why I said the 2nd episode painted a picture of how the rest of the series would turn out way back then. People were being evacuated after they heard an entire city was annihilated... No one panicking, just casually talking about how douchey martians are. Even when they were being chased, they all seemed to keep their cool. Which is why it's strange how SOMETIMES the characters DO react properly... Messy tone is messy.

Aug 13, 2014 7:19 PM

#365

Luxtress

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Oct 2011

705

This anime... is kinda mind boggling. And not in a good way.

So it's official, all Martians are ASSHOLES and the Emperor is a huge idiot. Like seriously, their ancestors are from Earth but they're like a completely different race with no actual heart. It's like only the dickheads went to Mars. I refuse to believe the Princess is one of them, she is the only good one.

What else... oh yeah Inaho and his crazy combat skills out of fucking nowhere. With no emotions to boot. I think he is an android.

This show is going downhill for me.

Aug 13, 2014 7:22 PM

#366

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Sep 2011

3935

Keten said:

deadoptimist said:

I agree that it is often a necessity. After all nobody has enough screen time to establish any casualty as a character first. Not that it would be a good thing too - I strongly dislike when author makes you know a character and then tortures you with this character's death just, as it seems, for sadistic pleasure (yep, I mean you, Martin).

But Aldnoah has a problem with how this stuff is handled. It's all so superficial: too much plot-armor and, you're right, reactions are not written well. The deaths of so many soldiers in the convoy should've had some impact on the people there. But Inaho is not emotional and his friends, surprisingly, are nonplussed too. Actually, the whole thing is strange. A number of pilots had already died horribly, so the newly drafted schoolchildren should've already gotten a lot more serious. And the most dissonant part is that, though Inaho's friends are obviously given plot-armor, they are almost as non-dimensional as grunts.
Marito's reactions are a bit better, but they too are mostly caused by the past, not current events.

Precisely. Marito is the most interesting character to me only because he at least reacts to SOMETHING in a realistic way. I don't care that so far he is moderately useless, he at least has a character. Though him being moderately realistic just points out how non-realistic the rest of the characters are. It's a bit messy. You are right though, he doesn't even really react to current events in a realistic way, just things that happened in the past... Very odd...

By Marito, do you mean Kaji?

"Justice Never Dies!" - Kenji Endou, 20th century Boys

Aug 13, 2014 7:42 PM

#367

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Sep 2013

613

GodlyKyon said:

By Marito, do you mean Kaji?

Damn.. He even looks like him doesn't he? Welp, the only character I was really interested in now was basically just a rip off of an Evangelion character... Though who knows, Marito might get development or backdrop that makes him appear different later on. Kaji had more personality than him though, not just from his reactions but the way his work place looked as well... I won't turn this into an Evangelion discussion though. Especially since Evangelion is vastly differnet from Aldnoah. :P

Aug 13, 2014 9:45 PM

#368

PeacingOut

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Oct 2007

2932

MasterMeNL said:
Why did nobody die yet? FML
Don't have anything else to say I guess, but please let this not be like Gargantia...

Named characters have died in this show, just nobody of significance really. So far we've had Inaho's friend that got all of one line and Trillram and Vlad who are basically cardboard cutout antagonists. I would assume this Femina chick or whatever her name is will probably be next on Saturday if the formula follows.

Keten said:

deadoptimist said:

I agree that it is often a necessity. After all nobody has enough screen time to establish any casualty as a character first. Not that it would be a good thing too - I strongly dislike when author makes you know a character and then tortures you with this character's death just, as it seems, for sadistic pleasure (yep, I mean you, Martin).

But Aldnoah has a problem with how this stuff is handled. It's all so superficial: too much plot-armor and, you're right, reactions are not written well. The deaths of so many soldiers in the convoy should've had some impact on the people there. But Inaho is not emotional and his friends, surprisingly, are nonplussed too. Actually, the whole thing is strange. A number of pilots had already died horribly, so the newly drafted schoolchildren should've already gotten a lot more serious. And the most dissonant part is that, though Inaho's friends are obviously given plot-armor, they are almost as non-dimensional as grunts.
Marito's reactions are a bit better, but they too are mostly caused by the past, not current events.

Precisely. Marito is the most interesting character to me only because he at least reacts to SOMETHING in a realistic way. I don't care that so far he is moderately useless, he at least has a character. Though him being moderately realistic just points out how non-realistic the rest of the characters are. It's a bit messy. You are right though, he doesn't even really react to current events in a realistic way, just things that happened in the past... Very odd...

To me the cast so far that actually qualify as characters with a noticeably functioning in order of most developed to least are as follows:

-Slaine. Don't think anything needs to be said there really, he carries this show on his back by being the only character so far to progress beyond the basic bare bones of a character arc.

Putting a break here for emphasis on where the bare bones basics of a character arc portion of the cast starts:

-Marito
-Saazbaum
-Rayet
-Asseylum though she just barely makes the cut and only as recently as this episode

That's about it at the halfway point of the cour.

So like 1.5 of the shows main characters, the douchebag traitor villain that is still one dimensional as hell but at least helping to move the plot along via his scheming as a low rent Gihren Zabi, a guy that functions largely as back story exposition and has demonstrated at least a long term problem to overcome in his cockpit phobia and a girl that saw her parents died and so far has mainly just been seen pouting about every since and acting like a really low rent Sochie Heim from Turn A Gundam with a fraction of the personality and spunk has at least seen the ball rolling.

PeacingOutAug 13, 2014 9:55 PM

Aug 13, 2014 10:52 PM

#369

Winter 2017 tl;dr Season Preview

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Sep 2011

3935

Keten said:

GodlyKyon said:

By Marito, do you mean Kaji?

Damn.. He even looks like him doesn't he? Welp, the only character I was really interested in now was basically just a rip off of an Evangelion character... Though who knows, Marito might get development or backdrop that makes him appear different later on. Kaji had more personality than him though, not just from his reactions but the way his work place looked as well... I won't turn this into an Evangelion discussion though. Especially since Evangelion is vastly differnet from Aldnoah. :P

mostly because of his mature + aloof look. Though they're not that similar in design... Sorry for making that comment.

"Justice Never Dies!" - Kenji Endou, 20th century Boys

Aug 13, 2014 10:55 PM

#370

fst

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Mar 2013

20064

It's just not a Kaji without the engrish, even if that was a rebuild thing.

Aug 14, 2014 12:59 AM

#371

Raziel1991

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Mar 2011

850

Episode 7 preview

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vcYDUkWSX3M

Aug 14, 2014 1:21 AM

#372

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Sep 2011

3935

Raziel1991 said:
Episode 7 preview

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vcYDUkWSX3M

Flying rocket fists... Wow, they are really gonna do that? Huge oldest mecha cliche

"Justice Never Dies!" - Kenji Endou, 20th century Boys

Aug 14, 2014 1:27 AM

#373

-Riptide-

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Oct 2013

3420

Raziel1991 said:
Episode 7 preview

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vcYDUkWSX3M

It looks like Inaho and Slaine will work together to beat that woman with the fist missiles. Should be good.

Aug 14, 2014 1:48 AM

#374

Miraclezify

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Nov 2012

1415

I'm a little disappointed that they're really playing this robot of the week show. The action is still some of the best action anime has ever produced and the robots are legitimately awesome (something I don't say about most mechas), but I'd much rather they focus on some character development. The characters have great chemistry, but some development to add weight to the action would make it great.

Aug 14, 2014 3:51 AM

#375

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Jul 2014

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Raziel1991 said:
Episode 7 preview

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vcYDUkWSX3M

"The Boys of Earth"? Seriously? And those happy faces of Marito (he is ptsd'd, for god's sake...) and the blonde guy in the end?..
I hoped for a proper paranoia to be the center of the episode. After all they can't know who is the pilot of the enemy's plane and why he is helping them. It could've easily been a struggle between two martian knights. It would've been logical to expect it, by the way: they left the territory of Cruhteo and did damage to him, so he could've tried to take his prey from the other landlord. It's a pity that they don't use politics in the plot, there's not enough tension.
Ngh. It looks like it's degrading really fast. But, well, I won't judge too harsh until I watch it...

Aug 14, 2014 8:00 AM

#376

Maryruss

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Jul 2014

204

deadoptimist said:

Raziel1991 said:
Episode 7 preview

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vcYDUkWSX3M

"The Boys of Earth"? Seriously? And those happy faces of Marito (he is ptsd'd, for god's sake...) and the blonde guy in the end?..
I hoped for a proper paranoia to be the center of the episode. After all they can't know who is the pilot of the enemy's plane and why he is helping them. It could've easily been a struggle between two martian knights. It would've been logical to expect it, by the way: they left the territory of Cruhteo and did damage to him, so he could've tried to take his prey from the other landlord. It's a pity that they don't use politics in the plot, there's not enough tension.
Ngh. It looks like it's degrading really fast. But, well, I won't judge too harsh until I watch it...

I agree with you, there should be more paranoia, it must be the center of the serie.

Aug 14, 2014 9:11 AM

#377

PeacingOut

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Oct 2007

2932

Miraclezify said:
The action is still some of the best action anime has ever produced and the robots are legitimately awesome (something I don't say about most mechas), but I'd much rather they focus on some character development.

Trust me, it's not and they really kind of aren't. Watch more mecha anime and broaden your horizons a little. Sorry it's just kind of getting annoying seeing people making these broad sweeping statements about the shows place in the annals of mecha anime or anime in general while prefacing them with "and by the way I don't really watch mecha any anime".

Also I wouldn't expect too much major development with the plot and cast so much as just them trying to make more cool looking action scenes and one liners while sort of continuing to outline the basics of a war premise. Just think of the kind of people we're dealing with behind this show, their relative lack of experience in the genre, what's been said about the show, and fit the pieces together. Beyond that I'd take any sort of nuance as a really pleasant surprise at this point, otherwise I'm pretty much watching out of obligation as a genre fan and to see a decently enjoyable summer blockbuster type show I can just tune into and absorb with the bare minimum of effort.

PeacingOutAug 14, 2014 9:18 AM

Aug 14, 2014 9:45 AM

#378

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Sep 2011

3935

Kaioshin_Sama said:

Miraclezify said:
The action is still some of the best action anime has ever produced and the robots are legitimately awesome (something I don't say about most mechas), but I'd much rather they focus on some character development.

Trust me, it's not and they really kind of aren't. Watch more mecha anime and broaden your horizons a little. Sorry it's just kind of getting annoying seeing people making these broad sweeping statements about the shows place in the annals of mecha anime or anime in general while prefacing them with "and by the way I don't really watch mecha any anime".

Also I wouldn't expect too much major development with the plot and cast so much as just them trying to make more cool looking action scenes and one liners while sort of continuing to outline the basics of a war premise. Just think of the kind of people we're dealing with behind this show, their relative lack of experience in the genre, what's been said about the show, and fit the pieces together. Beyond that I'd take any sort of nuance as a really pleasant surprise at this point, otherwise I'm pretty much watching out of obligation as a genre fan and to see a decently enjoyable summer blockbuster type show I can just tune into and absorb with the bare minimum of effort.

I don't know why, but before Code Geass, I never really liked mecha shows. I think a lot of people on the forums are the same, no idea why it's a disliked genre. Maybe the idea of people fighting in robots seems silly? or all the political drama?

"Justice Never Dies!" - Kenji Endou, 20th century Boys

Aug 14, 2014 9:54 AM

#379

Thess

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Sep 2010

1201

Kaioshin_Sama said:
To me the cast so far that actually qualify as characters with a noticeably functioning in order of most developed to least are as follows:

-Slaine. Don't think anything needs to be said there really, he carries this show on his back by being the only character so far to progress beyond the basic bare bones of a character arc.

Putting a break here for emphasis on where the bare bones basics of a character arc portion of the cast starts:

-Marito
-Saazbaum
-Rayet
-Asseylum though she just barely makes the cut and only as recently as this episode

That's about it at the halfway point of the cour.

The next 12 episodes will have a shift (in the break), at least Aoki Eri spoke of the story divided in two halves.

I won't spoil it for people and besides, they could change their minds from what they announced in the special program of the show. *shrug*

Aug 14, 2014 10:48 AM

#380

Winter 2017 tl;dr Season Preview

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Jul 2014

2556

By the way, now that I think about it, the characterisation on Slaine's side of the story seems strange too.
We know nothing of his status. Is he a squire, a prisoner or a pet on Cruhteo's castle? How did he manage to last those 5 years in such a hostile environment? Were there any relatively sane martians around?

I mean, one would think that after five years of being beaten and despised he would've had harder feelings towards Martians. We were not shown any sympathetic martian, Vlad didn't qualify as such in my opinion, so it's hard to imagine, why Slaine even bothers to communicate with him (and does so in such an enthusiastic manner) or why he had hopes that he could be heard out by Cruhteo or could be sent to the battlefield on a personal request.
On the other hand, since he hangs around Cruhteo's bridge and is protected by the princess, he must have a hope of becoming a knight or something. And he was let out as Trilliam's pilot, so he is trusted to some degree.

deadoptimistAug 14, 2014 11:03 AM

Aug 14, 2014 11:01 AM

#381

fst

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Mar 2013

20064

Miraclezify said:
The action is still some of the best action anime has ever produced and the robots are legitimately awesome (something I don't say about most mechas), but I'd much rather they focus on some character development.

It is definitely not some of the best action ever made. It's pretty good, probably the best this season, but not even close to the best ever, despite it's flashiness and production values. Stardust Memory had better mecha action despite it's age. So did 08th MS Team.

Aug 14, 2014 11:03 AM

#382

GD1551

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Oct 2010

5252

fst said:

Miraclezify said:
The action is still some of the best action anime has ever produced and the robots are legitimately awesome (something I don't say about most mechas), but I'd much rather they focus on some character development.

It is definitely not some of the best action ever made. It's pretty good, probably the best this season, but not even close to the best ever, despite it's flashiness and production values. Stardust Memory had better mecha action despite it's age. So did 08th MS Team.

It'd probably be overkill to even mention unicorn.

Aug 14, 2014 1:48 PM

#383

StardustReverie

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Jan 2010

1559

this episode was kind of bollocks tbh
A-team firing martians
no cannons or anything to shoot down slaine on the martian fortress
sending people to their deaths when everyone already knows inaho is all that matters
still thinking puny machine guns can do anything against armor like that

and they were talking shit about tanks earlier in the episode too. somehow I feel like tanks could perform better against these robots though.

Aug 14, 2014 1:59 PM

#384

niwasatou

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Oct 2006

285

I couldn't sit through the action sequences without cringing. Can the designs and writing get any more stupid? Christ.

Aug 14, 2014 6:58 PM

#385

Lykathea

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Aug 2013

1308

chickenonthepan said:

YurikoRaine said:

You just summed up the whole main cast perfectly

I just hope so much the plot gets some weird-as-fuck 180 degree turn somewhere... Anyone snapping anything, making this series (apart from the pretty cool action) a bit less basic. Come on I really want this to surpass Code Gayass!

Not enough plot twists and thriller yet... Far from it actually.

Plot twists are overrated. It isn't impossible for a show to be successful by just having and forwarding a single story.

LykatheaAug 14, 2014 7:01 PM

Aug 14, 2014 8:49 PM

#386

ZRShay

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Oct 2013

231

Moe martian handmaiden needs to become a casualty please.

Aug 15, 2014 3:23 AM

#387