Nekomonogatari: Kuro Episode 4 Discussion

jjrocks24 said:
we need to see hitagi more

TravSavage said:
I actually got a bit of the chills seeing Senjougahara at the end there.

Fiji said:
I didn't expect we will get such a convenient plot device called "Aberration Sword".

JohnGalt89 said:
I am probably in the minority here but this was actually my least favorite of the three series so far. It was still entertaining; however, it failed to grab my attention as much as Bakemono or Nisemono. And, as much I usually enjoy the dialogue in this series, this was the first time that I can remember finding myself bored during some of the conversations.

But, regardless of my complaints, I would still give this a 7/10.

DawnJ said:


Release order(novel) is bake-kizu-nise-neko(kuro) and that'll be better watching in this order... but we never know when the movie comes.

ronri said:
Honestly thought it was amazing.

It gave Hanekawa and Araragi's relationship a better sense of well-roundness while offering a better perspective in regards to Hanekawa's personality. While Senjougahara and Araragi remains as my favorite couple, the complexity behind Hanekawa's character and the channel (and eventual assimilation) that is Black Hanekawa is something that I greatly find refreshing in terms of a "victimized" character. The confirmation that Black Hanekawa is truly the embodiment of Hanekawa's inner destructive urges was something that I was looking for in Bake, and to see it fully realized in Neko (Kuro) was absolutely brilliant. That scene where she herself was speaking in place of the Sawari Neko (Meddle Cat) was something that really cemented certain theories I had about the character and it confirms a specific layer of depth that has long been hinted throughout the series.

Oshino's neutral stance was something that I greatly enjoyed as well, although at this point, it's certainly easier to pin-point the limits of his insight. In that regard, I find him similar to Kagenui (although Kagenui is less flexible) whereas Kaiki remains as the only one who's views maintain a sense of limitless mystique. While some people complained about Araragi's resolve in this, I really like how the writer went out of his way to really distinguish Araragi's stance towards Hanekawa (regarding the family issues and her own mental issues), and how as a male a character who holds a strong bond with a female character, he is actually able to differentiate his attraction to her from "love".

While Nise certainly provided a lot more interesting concepts, the fact that this gave a more wholesome experience regarding Hanekawa and her relationship with Araragi is something that I truly appreciated. While some complained that this lacked the same humor and wit as the other shows of the franchise, I'm honestly grateful it stayed true to form in terms of how Hanekawa's character arcs are written (in that they tend to be more dark, serious and neutrally introspective as it kept getting further into the story). For a quick 2 hour special, I was certainly not disappointed.

ElPysCongroo said:
Am I the only one who enjoyed Nisemonogatari the most?
Personally I found the dialogue just as well written as Bakemonogatari with the addition of it being funnier as well, while Bakemonogatari dialogue got slow at times explaining stuff. Furthermore the animation had also got a boost too, and to top it off Oshino Shinobu actually had a good amount of dialogue (which was great). Was the fanservice in it really that off putting?

ElPysCongroo said:
Am I the only one who enjoyed Nisemonogatari the most?

mugimugi said:

I'm not sure to interpret it like the sword enhances her Energy Drain.

drakere said:
Did anyone else notice the tie ins from Nekomonogatari to Nisemonogatari?

Like how Karen was going to sacrifice herself for her classmates but was stopped by Araragi who told her to settle for self satisfaction, when he was willing to die for Hanekawa's sake in this prequel. I think the hate on Nisemonogatari is really unjustified, because there was a lot of thought provoking themes and overall the character development of Araragi.

Also, why Araragi doesn't love Hanekawa. You can notice the fundamental difference between Hitagi and Hanekawa in the difference between their arcs. In Hitagi Crab, Araragi helps Hitagi with her situation but didn't save her, as Oshino Meme says it, you can only save yourself. By begging for her dignity back from the Crab God, Hitagi is able to save herself. Hanekawa has a problem but seeks for her "savior" (Araragi) to save her, but she can only save herself by confronting her own stress. Remember how in Bakemonogatari she gains stress again because she loves Araragi? Instead of confessing her love she escapes into Black Hanekawa, again leaving it to Araragi to drain her stress, in other words, running away. Araragi cannot return his feelings to Hanekawa until Hanekawa confronts her own problems herself instead of relying on Araragi.

Rewston said:
8/10
I have to say tho I was a little confused at the start, and I still am.

Rewston said:
Ah yes that makes sence, thank you for shedding some light on the issue for me. (ｏ・_・)ノ”(ノ_＜。)

I was just checking aswell how Araragi was acting around when Hanekawa brought up her issue again in Bakemonogatari, and idd they are connecting well, Araragi even says: "It really does seem like a continuation of Golden Week." But Hanekawa ofc has no clue of what he is talking about, its a new issue for her.

Edit: Had a double post >,>

hatahari said:
Love it! Ever since I became a Bakemonogatari fan, I've been dying to see the rest of the monogatari animes. Shaft always amazes me with their animation. :D

@D3ad_Fantasy: gosh, I love your avatar!! ♥

Elite60 said:
I don't care if you can regenerate...getting sliced in half will hurt like a royal bitch.

Venom900 said:
I'm starting to think that none of the subsequent animated arcs will ever be near as good, or even better than Bakemonogatari....it was the only season that was well-balanced and did everything right, Nise was close, but not entirely interesting all the way through, Neko....80% fanservice 20% interesting.....if it was atleast 50/50 it would be great...but doing a prequel arc where we know a good bit of background info already from Bake, these 4 episodes were simply not enough I guess that's why I got to stare at a cat in lingerie for 75% of this arc...I understand theres a sequel season to this, and I only hope either that or Kizu will be close to as good as Bake...7/10

ronri said:

I don't know what's worse, the fact that you barely cared for the elaboration of one of the most interesting and long-questioned character dynamics in the series, or the fact that you simply took the majority of this whole thing as simply nothing more than cat-lingerie fanservice....

Venom900 said:


I dont know what's worse, believing your personal opinion is superior to mine, or the arrogance of assuming that I care about it.

ronri said:


No assumptions being made about who's opinion is "superior" here, just an observation regarding the fact that you seemed very quick to dismiss the majority of this (in your own words) as 80% fanservice. Perhaps I injected too much of a sarcastic tone in my previous comment as that seemingly caused you to reply so adamantly. In that regard, I do apologize (though I guess you might not really care at this point? and no I'm not even being sarcastic here).

Venom900 said:

I found it to be pretty sarcastic, I usually reply with a sarcastic reply similiar to the one that was given to me if one was given, otherwise it's much more civilized, now that we both know we're being serious here....

It's not as if I went through the 4 episodes one after the other over the span of 2-3 hours and quickly and blantantly worded it off as fanservice. I spent about 5 or 6 days watching this one, coupled with other shows aswell. I'm a huge fan of Bakemonogatari, so naturally I'm going to compare the one I liked the most to the others in the series. It's not that it was bad, infact I liked how it finally picked up in episode 3 toward the middle of it, but it felt like this arc had only two focal points (fanservice and tsubasa's past), and because of how the first episode progressed (teaser fanservice of a boy who has sexual desires to a girl) I was a bit annoyed because it was too short imo to use up an entire episode just for that, one can argue that it builds up the story, but I don't buy it..I was against a prequel arc when I heard of this being aired eventually because if memory serves, a good portion of Tsubasa's story (past and present) was explained in the latter half of Bake, being a prequel series it was obvious that Koyomi would not succeed in truely saving her in this one. Personally a sequel arc would have been great, I liked Tsubasa's character but I felt like she deserved a better closure, like Hitagi.

As a side note, what I meant by caring or not was in regards to your sarcastic remarks, not the remark itself, but the tone of it. I'm not usually one to off and comment about other people's comments because naturely they are either the same, or the opposite which is pointless to simply say hey I agree, or hey this is why your wrong but occassionally I'll write something in reply to another if I feel that strong about it, or such as this when someone has challenged me to prove my side.

ronri said:

Thank you for the reply, while I was initially very sarcastic in my tone, this was actually the kind of answer I was hoping for, so I apologize for my initial comment for being too premature in the way I reacted.

Fair enough, but that's the thing I really enjoyed about this. Although despite the gratuitous nature of the initial teasing of the love vs. lust aspect (which was admittedly entertaining in its own way), what I actually loved about that particular segment is that it actually addressed a lot of questions that many fans have speculated or questioned regarding Araragi's case: in that, did Araragi actually love Hanekawa and was simply in denial of it due to being more aware of his love for Hitagi first? Was Hitagi REALLY just lucky for asking him out first? These were many questions that fans have continually speculated, and this arc is pretty much a full elaboration behind Araragi and Hanekawa's dynamic as characters.

In that regard, I actually appreciated what they did and how they set up the whole premise. Araragi fell out of "love" for the first time, only to realize that he wasn't really in love with Hanekawa, and I felt that gave a more pronounced meaning behind how special his relationship with Hitagi truly was. I found that this felt more like a proper answer to the questions posed in Bake (WHY does Hanekawa have a sour relationship with her parents? why is the Meddle Cat/Sawari Neko so keen on siding with Hanekawa? is Black Hanekawa simply Hanekawa possessed? or is it Hanekawa's dark impulses unleashed? is it possible that Hanekawa is acting according to her own free will?). In this regard, it actually gave more depth in the reasoning behind Hanekawa's possession and her relationship with her parents as opposed to being a reiteration of Bake. I also applaud the writer for re-establishing the mythology of the Meddle Cat, not to mention it's actualization as a new and unique case of a human turning into real aberration.

While I agree that Hanekawa certainly deserves better closure (since the content given here are more of an answer to the questions posed in Bake, while also acting as a foreshadowing to the future events depicted in Bake), I take refuge in the fact that this arc can be taken as an elaborate prelude to the one in the upcoming Zenmonogatari with her respective arc actually being labeled as "Nekomonogatari: Shiro" (which hints at being the final arc to conclude Hanekawa's dealings with the Meddle Cat).

Venom900 said:
I'm starting to think that none of the subsequent animated arcs will ever be near as good, or even better than Bakemonogatari....it was the only season that was well-balanced and did everything right, Nise was close, but not entirely interesting all the way through, Neko....80% fanservice 20% interesting.....if it was atleast 50/50 it would be great...but doing a prequel arc where we know a good bit of background info already from Bake, these 4 episodes were simply not enough I guess that's why I got to stare at a cat in lingerie for 75% of this arc...I understand theres a sequel season to this, and I only hope either that or Kizu will be close to as good as Bake...7/10

amginex said:


just think of neko as one arc to the whole. i believe every arc is 3-4 episodes. you cant really compare this arc to the 4 arcs in bake (or the 3 arcs in nise). if you must compare, it should be by arcs not by the series.

but i do agree that from bake to nise to neko, the fanservice have increased. i wish i could say you can just ignore it, because the dialogue and story is terrific, but the fanservice is terribly hard to miss.

heres to hoping the official season 2 would tone down on fanservice or not increase it anymore.

FrostMonarch said:
i want more monogatari :o
cant wait for the new season

lol, and i love the scene where shinobu came to save the day :D