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| I'm totaly speechless.. Awesome episode. |
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| Wow... the ending got me so involved I actually got closer to the screen eagerly waiting what decision Akane would make. |
| And with this, the fatal flaw of the Sibyl system has exposed: someone can be the worst type of thug imaginable, but if his CC doens't register with the system, the police can't do jack shit, especially not without 'old-fashioned' guns. I hope this will make Akane more determined to use her own personal judgment, rather than rely on the system too much. She has great potential, but she let herself be guided too much by the system, and now she paid a high price for it. |
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| I wonder if someone can hack the Sibyl system? That guy with Makishima seems to be a great hacker, doesn't he? What if he actually got into the system and was able to invert Makishima's CC? Wouldn't that explain how Kogami had to kill him (it was him, right?) at that preview in the first episode? Can someone actually go against their country's system without a reason good enough? Why would Akane have to ever question a system that seemed to work pretty well until now? Two more days (for me). |
| "You have your way, I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist." - Friedrich Nietzsche |
Attanus said: I wonder if someone can hack the Sibyl system? That guy with Makishima seems to be a great hacker, doesn't he? What if he actually got into the system and was able to invert Makishima's CC? Wouldn't that explain how Kogami had to kill him (it was him, right?) at that preview in the first episode? Can someone actually go against their country's system without a reason good enough? Why would Akane have to ever question a system that seemed to work pretty well until now? Two more days (for me). while I don't think the system is being hacked, I truly believe Gu-Sang, oposite to what most of people here think, is the one with the computing skills. Actually, there wouldn't be a necessity to have him in the show if that weren't his job. I was surprised we didn't see him last episode as some holographic character  he is probably the only person between the MWPSB and Makishima from now |
FerrasJan 10, 2013 4:28 PM
| omg gu-sung will be the final boss!! JK. by the way the PV of eps12 is out in another thread. |
| Your so-called peaceful world makes me bored, so don't blame me if I destroy all of it. - http://worldinverse.smackjeeves.com |
| Absolutely amazing episode. |
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Ferraswhile said: I don't think the system is being hacked, I truly believe Gu-Sang, oposite to what most of people here think, is the one with the computing skills. Actually, there wouldn't be a necessity to have him in the show if that weren't his job. Actually I was surprised we didn't see him last episode as some holographic character he is probably the only person between the MWPSB and Makishima from now Hey, that's him! That's the guy that I was talked about! I mean it looks like Makishima had his own personal bodyguard now. Great, nobody talks about this during ep5?! The Plot thickens! Jae-du-seong, Gu-sang or whoever the name is, It doesn't matter anyway. WorldInverse said: omg gu-sung will be the final boss!! JK. by the way the PV of eps12 is out in another thread. Whatever, dude. I can't believe this anime really gets me feelings after Guilty Crown last year. |
JafriZinJan 11, 2013 5:58 PM
| This episode just feels like its going to be a turning point a turning point towards what i'm not sure but defiantly a turning point in general. |
| Actually this is pretty stupid. 'Trigger will be locked' if rating is low? Give me a break. Paralyze as a default weapon mode is an absolute must. Nothing in the show can justify why not (actually it would made more sense since dominators are given to the 'purest' humans in universe society). A year of terrible endings and stupidiest plot holes ... |
Arqentum said: Actually this is pretty stupid. 'Trigger will be locked' if rating is low? Give me a break. Paralyze as a default weapon mode is an absolute must. Nothing in the show can justify why not (actually it would made more sense since dominators are given to the 'purest' humans in universe society). A year of terrible endings and stupidiest plot holes ... Did you even watch the show? Enforcers are not precisely the purest humans in universe in the eyes of the Sibyl System and they might abuse it if the paralyzer was the default mode (you can see a clear example of that in ep 12 btw). So yeah, your argument is pretty much invalid. |
Arqentum said: Actually this is pretty stupid. 'Trigger will be locked' if rating is low? Give me a break. Paralyze as a default weapon mode is an absolute must. Nothing in the show can justify why not (actually it would made more sense since dominators are given to the 'purest' humans in universe society). A year of terrible endings and stupidiest plot holes ... For someone to understand whether something has plot-holes or not first he must have a brain capable of comprehending stuff. Something which you seem to obviously lack since you even failed to realize that dominators are even given to potential criminals under the Sybil system despite being there in every freaking episode. |
| Whoa whoa whoa. How blind people nowadays are and fast to judge. Let me ask one simple question ( if you have the capacity to understand ) Since when Akane Tsunemori became Enforcer? In case you have forgotten - she exactly is the purest member of society. Not to mention that dominators are id-locked and it is absolutely possible to give more lethal version of it to Investigator and less lethal to Enforcer. And nice work ignoring everything else in the post above solely concentrating this petty 'fire' on one unimportant detail (and even that blame of yours was completely wrong). |
ArqentumJan 11, 2013 9:44 AM
Arqentum said: Whoa whoa whoa. How blind people nowadays are and fast to judge. Let me ask one simple question ( if you have the capacity to understand ) Since when Akane Tsunemori became Enforcer? In case you have forgotten - she exactly is the purest member of society. Not to mention that dominators are id-locked and it is absolutely possible to give more lethal version of it to Investigator and less lethal to Enforcer. And nice work ignoring everything else in the post above solely concentrating this petty 'fire' on one unimportant detail (and even that blame of yours was completely wrong). Nope, dominators are not id locked in the sense that every member of the police has his own dominator, they're locked in the sense that an outsider can't use em, but Kogami can use Akane's dominator and viceversa. You'll probably say that they can be configured so that inspectors have access to paralyze by default and enforcers don't but that could lead to accidents if it were unlocked by default in case of a bad aim or whatever, or could be dangerous in the case that an inspector's PP becomes cloudy in the middle of a mission. The point is that there could be multiple reasons why the dominator comes locked by default, the fact that you can't imagine/understand them doesn't make it a plothole. Btw, it's funny how your favourite anime is basically "Plot-holes: The Animation" (I liked it nevertheless, in fact gave it an 8) and you come to criticize some minor detail that isn't even a plothole. |
PosseJan 11, 2013 12:22 PM
| Default mode != default weapon mode. You'll probably say that they can be configured so that inspectors have access to paralyze by default and enforcers don't That's exactly what i am saying. That could lead to accidents if it were unlocked by default in case of a bad aim or whatever, or could be dangerous in the case that an inspector's PP becomes cloudy in the middle of a mission. If you mean 'inspector going all crazy in the middle of the mission and began to shoot all his Enforcers' there are two answers: - Wielder CC must be also checked to prevent such outbreaks (otherwise this is another plothole); - Right now nothing stops say Gino shoot Ko any time he wants, because default weapon mode against Enforcer is at minimum Paralyze. So at very least situation right now is either equal or worse. If he began to shoot civilians - it is freaking paralyze, no physical harm done and either Inspector will be grounded or he had a really good explanation. And heck, hostage situation? No problem, just paralyze both. I will repeat for the last time - Inspectors are the purest ( in terms of CC ) and most intelligent humans in universe society. Right now i see only one explanation that will turn this plot-hole into good explanation: - Government know how to bypass Sibyl/Dominator check and specifically created this loophole to cover their own PP and prevent being shot by MWPSB. Some minor detail that isn't even a plothole. Yeah. Sure. Some minor detail that will most likely make Akane (and/or) Gino a latent criminal and increase amount of episodes by 11. p.s. this is a discussion of Plot-pass, don't bring "Train-wreck: the Animation" in another show discussion. As unfair as it seems shows like this are a lot less resistant to critique especially in such lazy piece of scenarist work as ep. 11. If something like this happened for example in GiTS - nobody would have said anything ( something like this would not happen in GiTS, but that's another thing entirely ). |
ArqentumJan 11, 2013 1:48 PM
Arqentum said: That could lead to accidents if it were unlocked by default in case of a bad aim or whatever, or could be dangerous in the case that an inspector's PP becomes cloudy in the middle of a mission. If you mean 'inspector going all crazy in the middle of the mission and began to shoot all his Enforcers' there are two answers: - Wielder CC must be also checked to prevent such outbreaks (otherwise this is another plothole); - Right now nothing stops say Gino shoot Ko any time he wants, because default weapon mode against Enforcer is at minimum Paralyze. So at very least situation right now is either equal or worse. If he began to shoot civilians - it is freaking paralyze, no physical harm done and either Inspector will be grounded or he had a really good explanation. I will repeat for the last time - Inspectors are the purest ( in terms of CC ) and most intelligent humans in universe society. Right now i see only one explanation that will turn this plot-hole into good explanation: - Government know how to bypass Sibyl/Dominator check and specifically created this loophole to cover their own PP and prevent being shot by MWPSB. Yes, inspectors may be pure right now, but their PP can go up, Kogami is an example, you don't have scanners everywhere and there are lots of situations where an inspector might be alone, and no, I'm not talking about the inspector shooting the enforcer. Besides, you're pretending a perfectly flawless system when the interesting thing about this anime is how flawed the whole system is. I'll repeat it, the fact that you don't like that the dominators are locked by default doesn't make it a plot-hole, it's just how the system is made, and as I already said before there are lots of reasons why it could be made that way (in fact, you mentioned another possible one). Could it come with the paralyzer by default? Yes, it could, but it didn't, deal with it, both alternatives would be perfectly valid. Arqentum said: p.s. this is a discussion of Plot-pass, don't bring "Trainwreck: the Animation" in another show discussion. It was just to show you how biased your point of view is, too bad you don't like it. |
The interesting thing about this anime is how flawed the whole system is Oh.I understand now. So your definition of 'interesting plot' is mine definition of 'swiss-cheese plot'. My own definition of 'interesting plot' is more about characters making and using loop-holes in existing system, not author making plot-holes for characters to fit (yes this may sound confusing, read on) In layman's terms: - Loop-hole is something that could not be expected by thousands of simulations and hours of brainstorming. - Plot-hole is an incredibly obvious one. An example in ep.11: Plot-hole: What you have seen. Loop-hole: Main villain have cyborg body and brain. So paralyze simply would not work on him and his CC is impossible to check. See the difference? It was just to show you how biased your point of view is, too bad you don't like it. Actually i pointed at this 'biased' point of view in my last three lines of p.s. I will re-quote them in case you did not notice: Arqentum said: As unfair as it seems shows like this are a lot less resistant to critique especially in such lazy piece of scenarist work as ep. 11. If something like this happened for example in GiTS - nobody would have said anything ( something like this would not happen in GiTS, but that's another thing entirely ). p.s. Actually i will like if this whole conversation will bite me in the arse especially if my 'government theory' is the true one. But with nowadays universe knowledge it is nothing but plot-hole. |
Arqentum said: Plot-hole: What you have seen. Loop-hole: Main villain have cyborg body and brain. So paralyze simply would not work on him and his CC is impossible to check. See the difference? So what you mean as plothole is the fact that Makishima's PP is clear? That will probably be explained, no, it HAS to be explained in a future ep, but the fact that it hasn't been explained doesn't make it a plothole. If, and only if, the series ends without a proper explanation of this fact, then yes, it will be a plothole, and a big one. Arqentum said: p.s. Actually i will like if this whole conversation will bite me in the arse especially if my 'government theory' is the true one. But with nowadays universe knowledge it is nothing but plot-hole. Your mistake then is that you expect everything to be explained before, in fact I'd really like your government theory to be true, discussing this as a plot-hole right now makes no sense, wait until the series ends and we'll see, but right now it's just speculation. |
Posse said: So what you mean as plothole is the fact that Makishima's PP is clear? That will probably be explained, no, it HAS to be explained in a future ep, but the fact that it hasn't been explained doesn't make it a plothole. If, and only if, the series ends without a proper explanation of this fact, then yes, it will be a plothole, and a big one. I never said that Makishima's PP being clear is plot-hole of any kind. It is obvious this will be explained. Default weapon mode is the one. Posse said: Your mistake then is that you expect everything to be explained before, in fact I'd really like your government theory to be true, discussing this as a plot-hole right now makes no sense, wait until the series ends and we'll see, but right now it's just speculation. Arqentum said: But with nowadays universe knowledge it is nothing but plot-hole. Maybe it was a bit of emotional hastiness declaring it and yes this is a speculation but that is how the situation was shown. |
ArqentumJan 11, 2013 2:38 PM
| Lol you're impatient then, in Shinsekai Yori for example there was something 4 eps ago that was mentioned and was inconsistent with what I knew from the earlier eps, but with last episode's explanation it made sense, you can't expect everything to seem consistent until you see the whole picture. Saying X is a plot-hole is something that can only be done after the anime ends. |
| I'm not. No, I'm not. =_= Let's make it simple and say that i had a hunch and this plot-hole will remain as is without decent explanation. We'll see in future who is Wright. |
ArqentumJan 11, 2013 8:56 PM
| This was one of those episodes that start out normally enough, then end up mindfucking you just enough to get you hooked. That Mkishima... it was quite creepy the way his crime coefficient didn't rise at all; rather, it kept dropping! Maybe it's because he's a psychopath with no conscience? Whatever the reason for this, I'm itching to find out! As he said, I was also disappointed in Akane. Her friend's life was at stake and she didn't even have the will to pick up the damn gun? I can't believe she just let her be killed like that. That's just trusting the Sibyl system too much. Seriously, she's such a wuss... and I was just starting to like her, too. Fabe said: After that I was sitting here shouting "Throw that fucking Dominator on him, brake his head with that shit!" My words exactly. |
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cladinpink said: Fabe said: After that I was sitting here shouting "Throw that fucking Dominator on him, brake his head with that shit!" My words exactly. This is one of the dumbest things I've ever heard. |
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ainky said: cladinpink said: Fabe said: After that I was sitting here shouting "Throw that fucking Dominator on him, brake his head with that shit!" My words exactly. This is one of the dumbest things I've ever heard. So was Akane's inability to lift a finger to save her friend's life. |
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cladinpink said: ainky said: cladinpink said: Fabe said: After that I was sitting here shouting "Throw that fucking Dominator on him, brake his head with that shit!" My words exactly. This is one of the dumbest things I've ever heard. So was Akane's inability to lift a finger to save her friend's life. She couldn't do anything in that situation, she had never used a shotgun before, and was more likely that she could hit her friend instead of the bad guy, and the Dominator doesn't work on him. Throw the Dominator on him would be totally useless and she couldn't get close because they were on a platform. |
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ainky said: cladinpink said: ainky said: cladinpink said: Fabe said: After that I was sitting here shouting "Throw that fucking Dominator on him, brake his head with that shit!" My words exactly. This is one of the dumbest things I've ever heard. So was Akane's inability to lift a finger to save her friend's life. She couldn't do anything in that situation, she had never used a shotgun before, and was more likely that she could hit her friend instead of the bad guy, and the Dominator doesn't work on him. Throw the Dominator on him would be totally useless and she couldn't get close because they were on a platform. At least throwing the Dominator at him would be ger making a decision on her own, and actually doing something rather than just stand and watch. There's no need to keep pointing the Dominator at him when it doesn't work, so why not throw it at him? At the very least it'd give him a bump. |
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| This was an amazing episode, especially in terms of narrative! A turning point for Akane, with a powerful and painful message, where everything she believed in gets turned on its head. I'm counting on her optimistic nature to pull through though, eventually - I don't want her to turn as angsty and cynical as everyone else in her unit D: If not, YOU GOTSTA DO SOMETHING, KOGAMI. Ho. This will probably give Akane infinitely more depth from now on, even if it's come at a high, high price. *starts loading episode 12* LET'S GO. |
| omg awsome episode!!! 0!??!?!?! WUUUT!!!! fk him!!!! |
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| This is a perfect example no matter how smart and sophisticated a machine is, in the end you can't rely 100% on machine. She didn't bring any backup weapon neither train and equip herself with ability to use a normal firearm, that's because in those days those law enforcers were relying too much on dominator. And dang! Friend get killed right in front of her eyes and she couldn't do anything because her dominator is locked and she had no idea how to use shotgun. |
Thought it most appropriate to leave this here. Must be Urobuchi's true source of inspiration: |
NeoBasch said: Thought it most appropriate to leave this here. Must be Urobuchi's true source of inspiration: nice 1.. x3 well.. R.I.P Akane's friend, ure hot body will be missed for majority of people here~ This eps is making me think Psycho Pass is an awesome anime, it got solid 10 from me, that shougo sure is what u called the last boss (talk about can't be judge by the sybil system?!) and i think now that the innocent Akane will finally have a character development from now on (watching ure friend die in a horrible way). it's really sweet of Kogami still care of Akane, even though he got a severe injured himself. ^^ |
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 All these times, I was thinking what kind of metric the Sybil system use to determine Crime Coefficient. I thought of fancy things like personal history data integration, periodic psychological evaluation results, comprehensive current behavioral evaluation...etc. But no, all it does is a freaking Brain Scan. Although it's true that brain activities detected in certain area of the brain can indicate criminal tendency, the technology is far from perfect and it's not mind reader. It can easily mistakes high level of stress as high Crime Coefficient as shown in ep 1. But the most fatal problem is that it cannot detect CC when the communication line is cut in ep 3, or it is blocked from scanning the brain (sort of like Magnito special helmet in X-man). With that, the special weapon like Dominator is just a piece of metal. In Shougo case, he is just a pure psychopath who is BORED from KILLING people. He only got excited when seeing people struggle with their fates and most of all, when confronting his rival, Shinya. It's almost the same as Kirei from Fate/Zero, another Urobochi creation, who is such a genius that he lost interest in doing anything until he met Kiritsugu. However, he is not that special when you think about it. The same effect of negating the Bran Scan can easily be achieved with Magnito-like helmet. Coming back to the Sybil system. The 5th inherit problem with it is not that Dominator cannot Brain Scan but that trusting the system is too absolute to the point that there are no other tools (guns, club, taser) for Inspectors and Enforcers to use their own judgement on solving crime. This is the result of blindly out-source human intelligent works to machine. A cautionary tale indeed. |
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| It's silly they don't have a back-up pistol or a way to overwrite the gun. |
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Fiji said: Man. Makishima Shogo became so interesting in this episode! He is the weakness of the Sibyl System! Damn. He can't be judged! Even though he did stuff before he killed Yuki, the Dominator evaluated his crime coefficient... and it is going down everytime! This was a nice episode... although, I didn't want Yuki to die... but she died. The Destroy Decomposer is so badass! I hated the Akane when she was shaking in fear, scared of shit despite being with the police, watching her friend getting slit in the throat (Fuck I really liked that woman) and do nothing but shake, shake, shake the butt of yours.. Damn, another goodbye for a lovable character.. Although I disliked Akane because she couldn't do shit (she should've affirmed her determination by the time she joined the police), I still feel sorry for her, for all the shit happened to her.. phoenixalia said: I'm...shaking. Literally, shaking. Omigosh, Urobuchi, now I see why they call you Urobutcher. No, but, really, how...how do you come with characters like Makishima Shogo? I still don't understand him very well. OMigosh the way he slit her throat oh my gosh seriously that was awesome at the same time so cruel for for poor Akane. Oh gosh... Yeah, Makishima Shogo, I couldn't grasp him well either, I don't hate him despite what he had done.. Edit : I won't be able to bear rewatching that scene.. |
ToG25thBaamFeb 12, 2013 7:12 PM
| Honobono Log - best slice of life short -------------------------------------------- most kawaii loli overlord ---------------------------- Donquixote Doflamingo AMV - Control |
| Dat end! |
"Nobody knows what the future holds. That's why its potential is infinite"- Rintarou Okabe |
| i think makishima is my favourite character. that killing scene had so many subtle undercurrents to think about it: 1) akane made a fool out of herself. she was shown to be a weak-willed scaredy cat. despite all her moral rants, in the end, makishima proved that she was just like every other person in society hiding behind sybil. sybil takes away personal responsibility, lets them hide behind the name and use it to justify their actions. akane in the end couldnt pull the trigger because she was afraid to take a moral plunge, to take moral responsibility for a death, even though her friend was going to die. her fear stems from societal conditioning. so akane was despicable when she let her friend die, but viewers shouldnt blame her, cause this is a brilliant part of the storyline. growth will definitely happen! 2) all the sybil undercurrents/psychopath mentality/which has already been talked about 3) makishima is a cool ass villain |
| Shogo. Damn. I feel bad for Akane. :/ |
| R.I.P Dominator . I'm still in shock. |
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| Wow. That slut Akane just went full retard. Seriously? Fuck that shit MC. She let Yuki die because she's jealous. She is jealous that a supporting character like Yuki is 1000 times well-drawn than her. She's jealous that Yuki is beautiful, hot, long hair, beautiful, hot and has a likeable personality. Meanwhile Akane is just a piece of crap who can't even hold a shotgun properly. My god. Srsly, I hope Akane dies at the end because she is a despicable greedy selfish piece of shit who for some reason became the main character in a series. I actually feel better after saying all of that. WHY LET YUKI DIE? FUCK. BEST CHARACTER NEXT TO THE ENFORCERS DIES. WTF. |
| They can shoot drones with those guns, which lack human emotions, but can not shoot a human? :/ |
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| intense episode man, loved shogo's speech especially referring to descartes which my girlfriend really appreciated in this episode, just loved this one... said it before but the villains in this show are really something else, such a great show to watch, really is hope it continues as this is easily going on my favorites! |
| This was a good episode. Unfortunately, |
| My subjective reviews: katsureview.wordpress.com THE CHAT CLUB. |
| Omg this episode was amazing. I kinda understand why Makishima is being like this. He's questioning the Sybil system and why the police officers use it instead of their own choice and will. This anime really makes you think. I like psychological thrillers and I think this will be the one of the best ones in the history of anime. |
| Hmmmm, an old man who wants to live forever, and yet only feels truly alive when death is at hand. That Beethoven's 9th playing at the exact moment when he was truly 'alive' was a pretty nice touch to represent his emotions. Also, that last scene where Akane couldn't kill Makishima... So she was so scared of the Sibyl system, afraid to kill and do something 'bad' or 'evil' even to save someone's life, which most would consider a good or right thing to do. I guess that's the difference between Makishima and everyone else (well except kogami) , he believes he does nothing wrong so he can't be judged and expresses his free will while everyone else bows to Sibyl, an undoubtedly flawed system. Yes, this episode was juicy indeed. |
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