| Loving or hating a studio doesn't make an ounce of difference to the quality of the production, i'm just happy and content with the anime that i get. |
| I like what mappa did to attack on titan, sure they used cgi but it was ok, the vertical lines were horrendous but it's passable, the goods outweigh the bads so it's alright in regards to csm, it was nakayama's fault and not entirely mappa jigokuraku is a decent show, it's not mappa's fault the material is mediocre to begin with and the fights are ok I don't hate mappa but I have to criticize them |
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| The only people around here who actually hate MAPPA are psycho_goku and catalano because they have very specific headcanon ideas of what they wanted CSM to be. |
 ☆☆☆ "There's a huge difference between one and infinity. However, compared to the difference between existence and non-existence, one and infinite are nearly the same. I am the child destined to become the best witch... no... The greatest Creator in the world...!" -Maria Ushiromiya ☆☆☆ |
| People have placed such high expectations on MAPPA that any small thing that's different or weird from the source material and the show's apparently ruined. Like get some bitches on your dick, hating on MAPPA just to fit in with the others just makes you look stupid. |
MAL EMOJIS - Get your specially formatted emojis for MAL forums.        |
| Not only MAPPA but pretty much everything else as well. |
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togeswords said: Do people just love to hate on MAPPA these days? Why would anyone even care what people hate or not? MAPPA has actually brought to us both "Kakegurui" and "Dorohedoro" which are two franchises I actually enjoy despite there being zero hype behind them. Which are actually two franchise I would rather see be continued over something like "Attack on Titan" or even "Chainsaw Man", if even "Chainsaw Man" gets a second season due to it being viewed as a domestic failure in Japan based on domestic Blu-ray sales. MAPPA did an excellent job on "Vinland Saga Season 2" and I am eventually looking forward to binge watch "Jujutsu Kaisen 2nd Season" once it's finished airing. |
ColourWheelJul 11, 2023 1:36 AM
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| I don't like dismissing other people's legitimate opinions as "blind hate". In the end, most of the complaints about MAPPA are due to their animation and art direction (not my opinions): AoT looking worse than Wit's seasons, Jigokuraku has some good moments but quite a few subpar scenes, CSM because of 3DCG. Contrarily to what a lot of people say, visuals do matter a lot and due to the horn effect (the opposite of halo effect) the writing of an "ugly" anime is more criticized too. |
| "Do people just love to hate on MAPPA these days?" It's not that they aren't giving enough opportunities... |
| the people who "hate" mappa, are either pretentious idiots who have a superiority complex, or normie idiots who don't know what they are saying. MAPPA is objectively an above average studio. and most of their works look at least "good" i don't think they are the best. but they are clearly in the upper level of consistancy. thinking they are overrated, is one thing. i would actually agree with that. but i have seen people who say mappa is thr single worsr studio, and i actually have to question their eyes' function. |
| Also available at: YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCK8spdL1M_J-z0vO2C7jPLw Second Channel: https://www.youtube.com/@AshPolygonsDo/videos Twitter: https://x.com/APolygons2 Backloggd: https://backloggd.com/games/lib/rating?page=8 IMDB: https://www.imdb.com/user/ur107632777/?ref_=uspf_nv_profile |
togeswords said: Like has it become a norm? Is it a requirement to be taken seriously and show the world that you really understand anime and animation in general? I am gonna be the first to admit, I am far away from properly understanding the art behind animating anything, I am a simpleton that likes what I like and dislike what I dislike. It is relatively easy to please me, but I still think I can tell that a difference between good and bad like a member of a general audience. Wherever I go I see people bashing, complaining and sometimes even plainly hating on MAPPA as a studio, on their individual shows and everything concerning them. It almost seems as if people just hate on whatever-MAPPA related because it is cool. In no circumstances would I support a studio that overworks their own staff, I hope they are gonna improve the conditions because I am sure all those memes have had to reach them already, but like are people aware that by bashing EVERYTHING they are also bashing the artists themselves? (In case that that is the original reason behind all that hate). or are the expectations too high? because I think their work is pretty decent, but I am gladly gonna read all your detailed explanations why their every single work post AOT s4 is just considered bad. P. S. Hell´s Paradise was a good show. The more popular a studio/anime is the more haters it'll have, that's inevitable That said, although i really like the animation in most of the MAPPA anime i've watched, i can't help but notice it has been declining (i'm sure overworking the staff is not helping with that) The CGI in Chainsaw Man was absolute trash, and even with their good works like Jujutsu Kaisen, i can see subtle differences between s1 and s2, and i'm sorry but s2 animation is just slightly worse, and this isn't something i've only noticed with MAPPA, i've noticed this in the latest seasons of MHA and Demon Slayer too |
| Its not that I really hate MAPPA but I do think there are times their animation sucks. But ig they really animate well when it comes to mainstream shows such as AoT, JJK, CSM I think they did well on those. What I like about them is they always have the right color/tone that matches the atmosphere of the show which alot of other studios can't pull off. but on other shows such as Inuyashiki and Takt op it was horrible when they use cgi for the characters(excluding csm) its just awful. I know they are already mediocre shows to begin with but the awful animation just made it worse. Its not a bad studio.. just sometimes on certain shows imo |
| Very poor looking CGI's. That's it. The one and only reason. |
They made Jigokuraku so I can't complain It's better than AoT anyway |
| I don't hate mappa at all probably one of my favorite studios but hells paradise was probably their worst animated show I've watched by them so far I still really liked hells paradise tho but compared to their other shows the animaton was poop lol |
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| MAPPA did better at SoL shows than battle shounen mainstreams. Just look at the art of Dance Dance Danseur. It's gorgeous than from CloverWorks. Campfire in Another World's art is great too and even Sakamichi Apollon. Idk why MAPPA sucks at adaptations of battle shounens. Hell's Paradise is pretty shit. |
 “Once you've been loved once and have loved once, you cannot forget it.” ― Natsume Takashi |
| People love to hate on everything these days. And I agree, a lot of the hate that the studio gets is unwarranted, but not all. MAPPA has proved that they can provide good schedules and resources to their animators, Vinland Saga season 2 being an example, but refuses to do so because the producers want to pump out as much well-above average shows as possible. This studio has the power to pull the best talent in the industry, not even exaggerating, but their work doesn't reach it's peak 'cause they can't completely realize their ambitions. Even Chainsaw Man, which is one of their most high profile shows to date and funded entirely by MAPPA itself, didn't get a good enough schedule to have the director fully realize his ambitions (though the complaint about it being too realistic or something is on Nakayama, not the schedule). And the thing is, they keep making these high-profile shows back to back in addition to side-projects. As an example, take the JJK staff. After a 2-cour season 1, they jump straight to working on its movie. As soon as that's done, we move on to their most ambitious show yet, Chainsaw Man. But wait, we're not done yet. Now there's a 2 cour JJK season 2 that now needs to be worked on. Back to back high profile shows, with smaller projects airing simultaneously (yes, I'm aware of the different teams for the other projects). Other than that, the complaints about bad CG or bad "MAPPA style" (whatever that is) are either personal taste or complete rubbish. As I said before, the complaint about Chainsaw Man's direction came from Nakayama's vision, and liking it or not is personal taste. The manga readers were dosappointed because they did not imagine the show having such a style, which I do get. What I don't get is wtf "MAPPA style" is. There's no such thing as most of their shows have different character designers, different series directors, different animation directors and so on. There is no general style across all MAPPA shows. AoT seasons 1-3 and season 4 look completely different because the teams working on them are entirely different. Meanwhile, Vinland Saga season 2 doesn't look much different from season 1 because the director, the character designer and the core staff has remained the same, even though Vinland has also shifted from Wit to MAPPA. Studio names don't matter as much as the staff and the scheduling does. As for the CG, the complaints regarding that vary from somewhat valid to comically stupid. Again example being Chainsaw Man. The show for the most part had great CG, except for like one shot in episode 1, which yes did look bad. But then I saw some people complaining about the CG where there was none, that's how good the CG was and how bad some of those takes were. |
Amoh25Jul 11, 2023 4:48 AM
| Gintoki and Sugita's birthdays are 1 day apart. |
| I felt like Vito Corleone looking at Sonny's corpse and saying "Look how they massacred my boy" while I was watching Chainsaw Man. |
| If you're a fanboy, please don't waste my time. Watch more movies, please. Perhaps, this is hell. |
| but that's the only way to gain a premium pass at the cool kids table. |
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| well i am not the best judge of animation so i cant tell if they are good or bad even if i try hard. for me, mappa animations look great. like idk how animation works or how they are supposed to move or whatever or what even is good and bad cg. ok maybe not that, i can distinguish between a few cgs. like orange makes some amazing ass cg and mappa ones, i think they are pretty good too. maybe im just too stupid to realize something is bad but that doesnt matter to me. ill watch whatever looks good and goddamn vinland, aot and csm looked fabulous |
by Toshi  |
| No wonder people hate it if they already are used to with animation n direction from AOT n Vinland saga from WIT, i dont say Mappa is shittt studio but more likely mediocore in the best if we compared to another great studio in action show like Madhouse, Sunrise, A1 beside Wit studio itself. Imagine if all this time u receive original grade a meat then suddenly u get imitation meat on ur next lunch like this one lolllllllll |
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togeswords said: lol thanks but yeah. im not out here analysing and calculating and scientifically proving how right the movements or animation are. if its good looking, im watching itHarrrryyyy said: pff, don´t underestimate your opinion over there. it´s pretty valid. well i am not the best judge of animation so i cant tell if they are good or bad even if i try hard. for me, mappa animations look great. like idk how animation works or how they are supposed to move or whatever or what even is good and bad cg. ok maybe not that, i can distinguish between a few cgs. like orange makes some amazing ass cg and mappa ones, i think they are pretty good too. maybe im just too stupid to realize something is bad but that doesnt matter to me. ill watch whatever looks good and goddamn vinland, aot and csm looked fabulous I guess some anime fans just have that "special vision" where they just see stuff, regular fans don´t or it it seems so. I am selfishly glad I am not the only one lost in that mediocracy pool :D |
by Toshi |
| Mappa make serviceable products, they don't make good anime. |
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Kalllopp said: Thanatos1 said: Mappa make serviceable products, they don't make good anime. Good anime and good animation are different things and I believe the people who like MAPPA like them for their animation quality rather than the anime they make. It doesn't take much to satisfy today's average anime fan as you could see from the OP anyway. By good anime, I meant good animation. In my opinion, most of their stuff looks extremely soulless. It's not consistently good and I've noticed some instances where even the lip flaps are not synced properly. Mappa is very good at making OPs and EDs though. I haven't really seen a bad OP or ED from Mappa. To give examples for the studios which in my opinion make good anime, I'd name studios like Wit and Bind. |
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| They are just a popular brand name studio. It's that simple. In reality MAPPA is in that upper echelon in terms of ambition, talent and size. Most of those idiots who complain probably barely watch anything that actually has severe production issues, limited animation or works that aren't as ambitious as the kind of stuff MAPPA usually takes on. I doubt most of them know a single staff members name or more than five studios. I am hardly a sakuga expert (honestly most fans who don't animate themselves aren't either even if they are "knowledgable" about people in the industry) but I can use my eyes and have seen a variety of anime over decades. MAPPA's productions are not average. They are hardly my favourite studio but the amount of ignorance I often see like people saying I want Madhouse over MAPPA (completely unaware of where Madhouse's talent went) or people talking about how they were going to ruin VS S2 even though most of the staff had literally been carried over from WIT lol. |
| I think it's because people have high expectations for MAPPA since they adapted jujutsu kaisen. If MAPPA makes a show and the animation isn't on par with jujutsu kaisen, it's considered "mid". Also, (most) new anime fans are toxic :) |
| Idaten Deities was the last good show Mappa ever made |
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| The most valid anti-MAPPA claims are the ones related to their working conditions: lackluster scheduling, overworking their animators, pay grade being too low, etc. but even then, these claims can be made for the majority of studios nowadays anyways. Are there really any exceptions to that? Maybe Kyoto Animation with their 2 projects a year nowadays, but good luck getting a job there as a Japanese animator unless you attend their animation school and get molded into their distinct style. A majority of industries today will exploit your labor if they know you are passionate about what you're working as, no matter where you are on the totem pole or what you work as. Back to the original topic at hand. From what I see on this site, Twitter, Reddit, Discord, and any other social media opium den where people discuss anime, those who hate on Chainsaw Man typically do so because of the animation rather than the working conditions at MAPPA. I don't know, I think if you hate on MAPPA or Chainsaw Man for shit like the CG they utilized in their adaptations, then you're kind of just reaching honestly and hating without making a substantiated argument. Hating on Chainsaw Man because you dislike the CG is just pointless honestly. I didn't like the manga or the anime, but I wasn't into the source material whatsoever and dropped it after 17 chapters. Furthest I got into the anime was about 4 episodes. I didn't enjoy it, rated it a 4, and moved on. There are plenty of worse shows out there than Chainsaw Man which get way less flak from the international anime community. The best argument that was negative about Chainsaw Man that I've seen was on this site by MAL user ColourWheel. He claimed that Chainsaw Man might not even get a second season because it was a commercial flop in Japan that only sold 1,735 blu-ray copies in its first week in retail and e-commerce ( https://www.cbr.com/chainsaw-man-poor-blu-ray-sales-japan-anime-future/ ). The article which he provided me did mention that MAPPA claimed to sell an additional 10,000 copies in this time frame, but they were bundled with merchandise according to this source. On Amazon JP, Chainsaw Man's blu-ray also does have a fair amount of negative reviews (https://www.amazon.co.jp/-/en/product-reviews/B0BH52YH5M/ref=acr_dp_hist_1?ie=UTF8&filterByStar=one_star&reviewerType=all_reviews#reviews-filter-bar). ColourWheel did convince me with his argument that he made in, ironically, a Psycho Goku thread. So while I agree with his claim that the anime flopped in Japan due to piracy, backlash, and low sales, I don't necessarily hate Chainsaw Man. I just don't care about it or MAPPA. But people who do hate on it needlessly are just ignorant troglodytes. CG is the present, no need to hate on MAPPA for using something that most studios do nowadays because it is the industry standard. |
| Shockingly, it used to be one of my favorite studio back in the early 2010's. I thought they're gonna build themselves like P.A. Works where they're willing to take a risk to make appealing original show with some of eccentric directing for their show. Sakamichi no Apollon, that show alone convince myself the studio gonna put some of the best directing in terms of story and charming character writing. They'are also made Garo the animation which was one the most surprising thing in tokusatsu, because they made Garo better than the original Garo itself, how is that possible. But yea, I guess after like, dororo maybe, MAPPA is just in the absolute bottom of the abyss for me, but their consistency for making that many unpleasant show really surprised me too. |
Kalllopp said: Dulonkk said: The most valid anti-MAPPA claims are the ones related to their working conditions: lackluster scheduling, overworking their animators, pay grade being too low, etc. but even then, these claims can be made for the majority of studios nowadays anyways. Are there really any exceptions to that? Maybe Kyoto Animation with their 2 projects a year nowadays, but good luck getting a job there as a Japanese animator unless you attend their animation school and get molded into their distinct style. A majority of industries today will exploit your labor if they know you are passionate about what you're working as, no matter where you are on the totem pole or what you work as. Back to the original topic at hand. From what I see on this site, Twitter, Reddit, Discord, and any other social media opium den where people discuss anime, those who hate on Chainsaw Man typically do so because of the animation rather than the working conditions at MAPPA. I don't know, I think if you hate on MAPPA or Chainsaw Man for shit like the CG they utilized in their adaptations, then you're kind of just reaching honestly and hating without making a substantiated argument. Hating on Chainsaw Man because you dislike the CG is just pointless honestly. I didn't like the manga or the anime, but I wasn't into the source material whatsoever and dropped it after 17 chapters. Furthest I got into the anime was about 4 episodes. I didn't enjoy it, rated it a 4, and moved on. There are plenty of worse shows out there than Chainsaw Man which get way less flak from the international anime community. The best argument that was negative about Chainsaw Man that I've seen was on this site by MAL user ColourWheel. He claimed that Chainsaw Man might not even get a second season because it was a commercial flop in Japan that only sold 1,735 blu-ray copies in its first week in retail and e-commerce ( https://www.cbr.com/chainsaw-man-poor-blu-ray-sales-japan-anime-future/ ). The article which he provided me did mention that MAPPA claimed to sell an additional 10,000 copies in this time frame, but they were bundled with merchandise according to this source. On Amazon JP, Chainsaw Man's blu-ray also does have a fair amount of negative reviews (https://www.amazon.co.jp/-/en/product-reviews/B0BH52YH5M/ref=acr_dp_hist_1?ie=UTF8&filterByStar=one_star&reviewerType=all_reviews#reviews-filter-bar). ColourWheel did convince me with his argument that he made in, ironically, a Psycho Goku thread. So while I agree with his claim that the anime flopped in Japan due to piracy, backlash, and low sales, I don't necessarily hate Chainsaw Man. I just don't care about it or MAPPA. But people who do hate on it needlessly are just ignorant troglodytes. CG is the present, no need to hate on MAPPA for using something that most studios do nowadays because it is the industry standard. Thanks for telling us you have no life I guess. My reaction to your reply (I am popping bottles):  |
| Hating on MAPPA is not the norm. They’re arguably the studio with the biggest cult of personality surrounding them at the moment. Go look at any mainstream social media platform whenever a Jujutsu Kaisen or Attack on Titan episode comes out and you’ll see nothing but adoration for the tiniest details put in their works. The studio’s detractors are ultimately a vocal minority, which isn’t to say that criticism isn’t deserved, but that bait threads on MAL forums aren’t exactly reflective of the conversation at large. Just look at the weighted scores for their shows on this site and you’ll see a different story. |
| People just love to hate on everyrhing these days |
| Nothing in this world lasts forever, and it´s time you accept that. It's better to not cling to these things that you will eventually lose. |
togeswords said: Dude, ignore them. They create completely blank pages at regular intervals to bait people in various fresh threads for conflicts. Probably someone is just too cowardly to participate in this openly.Kalllopp said: was your comment necessary? does it make your ego grow bigger? do you need a hug or something? You could have easily found out that yourself if you know how to use Google. |
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| MAPPA uses 3DCG on purpose and not out of necessity which basically makes them my arch enemy. |
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Natsuki_SanJuan said: MAPPA did better at SoL shows than battle shounen mainstreams. Just look at the art of Dance Dance Danseur. It's gorgeous than from CloverWorks. Campfire in Another World's art is great too and even Sakamichi Apollon. Idk why MAPPA sucks at adaptations of battle shounens. Hell's Paradise is pretty shit. They make INCREDIBLE battle shonen adaptations, the fuck are you smoking. |
Phosphophyllita said: I felt like Vito Corleone looking at Sonny's corpse and saying "Look how they massacred my boy" while I was watching Chainsaw Man. Massacring it by giving it an incredible adaptation. Nice logic. |
OiantakuYT said: MAPPA uses 3DCG on purpose and not out of necessity which basically makes them my arch enemy. ....you mean like every single studio that uses does? Or do you think that studios use CG "accidently"? Also, people still to stop talking as if CG exists purely for the sake of "saving time" and not that it can be utilized as a tool just like 2D can. |
StaleNut said: MAPPA hasn't been able to put out a project that doesn't deserve criticism in years. The last time I remember MAPPA actually having a flawless production was with Sakamichi no Apollon. Every time they release a new anime, they go all out on certain departments and neglect some other major ones. With CSM they went all out with the cinematic feel and completely forgot they had to animate the fights properly as well, resulting in a ton of bad cgi use. With AoT they had major production issues due to the absurd schedule, which MAPPA agreed to knowing full well they'd never have enough time to make AoT look as good as it should, just so they could make some fast profit. Recently they also showed how inconsistent they are with how different Jjk season 2 looks in comparison to season 1 and the movie. I haven't watched Jigokuraku yet, and I probably never will, but some scenes I saw online looked incredibly mediocre. I actually find it harder to believe that there are people out there that smh treat MAPPA like the best studio to ever exist. It's like every shonentard is blinded by the amount of good IP's they've been picking up, while completely forgetting how mediocre each adaptation of those IP's has been. Out of these, Jigokuraku is the only one that had an actual bad adaptation. Chainsaw Man did not "forget to properly animate" anything. The fights have just as much 2D as everything else in the anime, and it still had just as many great animators; Kouki Fujimoto, Tatsuya Yoshihara, Gem, Keiichiro Watanabe, Isuta Meister, Shota Goshozono, it was incredible all the way through. And even the ONE fight in the anime that was actually made fully in 3D - that being Denji vs Katana Devil 2 - was still extremely well-done, with excellent storyboards and motions. The usage of CG in Chainsaw Man was (mostly) great, and even then, the anime still has a bigger 2D than 3D ratio. Attack on Titan had a bad schedule and had a lot of roughness around the edges, specially around Part 1, but it's still not a bad adaptation by any stretch of the imagination. Specially since Hayashi's masterclass direction does a better job overall than Araki when it comes to building everything properly, and for Part 2 and specially 3 most of the issues had been sorted out, with it having consistently great direction. And JJK is not "inconsistent". It simply changed looks due to the many changes in staff, specially Goshozono taking the lead which is a blessing in disguise more than anything else. Sunghoo Park is an excellent action director, but for everything else, he's very weak overall. S1 had great animation, but it specifically failed in the art direction and compositing department, with god awful textures and poor CG backgrounds, both of which are already majorly fixed with just the first episode of S2 alone. Not to mention the cleaner aesthetic and more lively and expressive character acting, more dynamic layouts and infinitely better use of 3D backgrounds. Is MAPPA a perfect studio? No, far from it. No studio is, only one I could think would come close is KyoAni. But talking as if MAPPA has no consistency whatsoever or even worse, the people who just label them as a "CG studio" and ignore how strong they are and how much connections they can pull are just as ignorant as the people who would pretende they are flawless. |
Oongbuh said: Oongbuh, look how they massacred my Denji 😭Phosphophyllita said: I felt like Vito Corleone looking at Sonny's corpse and saying "Look how they massacred my boy" while I was watching Chainsaw Man. Massacring it by giving it an incredible adaptation. Nice logic. |
| If you're a fanboy, please don't waste my time. Watch more movies, please. Perhaps, this is hell. |
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