| Heya guys ;) So, a rather simple question : What are the benefits of shame in your life ?  I'll be honest, I'm a shameless creature, as my parents were. I never saw the point to listen to it, I don't mind being made fun of or judged. So, do you hold another view ? Is there a good reason to value this sentiment in your eyes ? PS : if you could read each other posts and maybe exchange that'd be wonderful too ;) |
 |
| i think its kinda link to guilt but this time its social guilt (you feel you did something wrong in the eyes of society thus you feel socially rejected or feel social stigma) its common feeling for social anxiety/phobia |
| To emphasize the gravity of the situation, the weight of one's actions |
 |
| Being ashamed of yourself every now and then proves that you have some degree of humility, shame is sort of a circuit breaker for our conscience. |
 |
| @deg I believe that as well, guilt is another notion I like to question. @3miL I see. To what end, to what use though ? What part of our actions are so grave ? ;) @Treeskyview Yup, there's a lot of that going on imo ;p @Erg_Orgy Maybe so. I lack both humility and conscience though, and still believe what I am is good enough, strangely ;) |
|
Moonspeak said: @Erg_Orgy Maybe so. I lack both humility and conscience though, and still believe what I am is good enough, strangely ;) That might not be a bad thing honestly. I suppose if you stick to your morals super firmly, there's no reason for you to feel ashamed. Basically you never go against what you stand for. |
|
Erg_Orgy said: Moonspeak said: @Erg_Orgy Maybe so. I lack both humility and conscience though, and still believe what I am is good enough, strangely ;) That might not be a bad thing honestly. I suppose if you stick to your morals super firmly, there's no reason for you to feel ashamed. Basically you never go against what you stand for. Maybe we have different definitions of it, but I do not see it that way, I do not see myself as having any kind of moral code. I just follow my desires, because I believe they are sane drives for life. Trying to repress them for too long is what causes them to turn dark, twisted and dangerous imo. |
|
Moonspeak said: Erg_Orgy said: That might not be a bad thing honestly. I suppose if you stick to your morals super firmly, there's no reason for you to feel ashamed. Basically you never go against what you stand for. Maybe we have different definitions of it, but I do not see it that way, I do not see myself as having any kind of moral code. I just follow my desires, because I believe they are sane drives for life. Trying to repress them for too long is what causes them to turn dark, twisted and dangerous imo. I suppose so, the important thing is we both have things to keep us going. Oh for sure, we desire most things for a good reason. I mean just look at all the frustrated NoFap blokes out there, all the health benefits they claim are nothing compared to how it affects their minds. |
|
| It can help you get in shape. Like, there's this girl you like, and she's hot AF, but you are either too fat or too skinny and that makes you feel insecure. So what you do? You go to the gym to get all yoked up hoping that she'll notice your mad gains one day and fall in love you. Of course, since she likely doesn't care about any of that, she'll probably just find a boyfriend in the meantime. Now 95% of all the attention you get is from fellow gym bros mirin' on Instagram. Oops. But hey, at least you are now diced to the socks, and it's all thanks to shame. |
| shame: a painful emotion caused by consciousness of guilt, shortcoming, or impropriety It looks like a natural product to having social awareness. If you had no shame, you'd break all social conventions. Because we're social creatures there's a lot of benefit from being accepted into a group and having no shame whatsoever will basically kick you out of any social setting lol |
| @149597871 Oooooh Naruhodoooo Thanks, shame ! ;) @Tachii You may be on to something there ;) I do not care for conventions, true enough, at the exact moment I'm typing this I'm taking a nap over my dirty towel next to a public park where I'll use tap water to wash my feet and clothes, under the watchful eyes of those ever good looking italians ;p I can sing and dance in public without the littlest worry in the world. The law is the only reason I'm not naked in public, tbh. So yeah. I guess it makes it harder for me to belong to a group... but it's also pretty powerful to seduce some other free minds ;) I can tone it down when needed though. |
|
| It keeps you from doing stupid things |
Zero019 said: It keeps you from doing stupid things Fair point ! Though... What if never doing stupid things was the stupidest of all ? ;) |
|
Moonspeak said: Zero019 said: It keeps you from doing stupid things Fair point ! Though... What if never doing stupid things was the stupidest of all ? ;) I don't understand what you mean, but I think I'd rather refrain from doing something that I will regret in the future. Although sometimes I can lose my filter due to excitment. |
Zero019 said: Moonspeak said: Fair point ! Though... What if never doing stupid things was the stupidest of all ? ;) I don't understand what you mean, but I think I'd rather refrain from doing something that I will regret in the future. Although sometimes I can lose my filter due to excitment. Then hear the voice of experience : You almost always regret the stupid acts you never did, and almost never the ones you did ;) |
|
| Nice to see Suneater here lol Speaking generally, shame is result from the awareness of guilt but apparently is not the same thing as guilt. In short, it's a painful feeling about how we appear to others (and to ourselves) and doesn't necessarily depend on one having done anything. If you remember that too much is bad, then radicals view shame as a barrier to freedom, it seems they have lost their sense of self-worth. OT: Avoid going astray. |
Zukangor said: radicals view shame as a barrier to freedom, it seems they have lost their sense of self-worth. I have a hard time with this one. I do think highly of myself, I have no trouble seeing worth in the person I am. Why should shame be linked to having a sense of self worth ? Do you define your worth by your ability to follow norms ? |
|
| That's to manipulate others of course! |
 |
| @Lolsebca Ceci, sans ironie. I legit believe there is some of that going on, it's super useful to control people. |
|
Moonspeak said: @Lolsebca Ceci, sans ironie. I legit believe there is some of that going on, it's super useful to control people. That's why existentialism was a core part of what we now call social progress or progressism. Shame versus liberalism. That's why a "lieu commun" of the left in France has indecency as a core argument and has indignation for logical basis (the part about indignation comes from me reading Luc Ferry, so a rightist, but it's true and I see it each day on social media and the news). |
|
| @Lolsebca Indeed ;) Camus comes to mind too from what you describe. |
|
| i am in favor of shame as an alternative to more overtly violent or bureaucratic methods of social control. |
 |
| What is shame? What is shame to you? The betrayal. The reputation. Those close to you. Does a man (as a father) feel shame if his daughter has gone to beach in a bikini? Or if she had sex with multiple men? Does a man feel shame if he was known for dishonoring his parents? Humiliating them? I’m just giving some examples. You decide what is shameful and what is not. |
ArabianLuffyJul 26, 2022 1:51 PM
 |
Moonspeak said: I believe there are some things that need shame and condemnation ( some more than others) ; pedophilia, Racism, Sexism ( and i mean real instances of these things not assuming people meanings) are things that should all be immediately shamed as there is no place for them in polite society Heya guys ;) So, a rather simple question : What are the benefits of shame in your life ? I'll be honest, I'm a shameless creature, as my parents were. I never saw the point to listen to it, I don't mind being made fun of or judged. So, do you hold another view ? Is there a good reason to value this sentiment in your eyes ? PS : if you could read each other posts and maybe exchange that'd be wonderful too ;) |
   💀🖤🥀˜”*°•.˜”*°•𝓘𝓯 𝔂𝓸𝓾 𝔀𝓮𝓻𝓮 𝓽𝓸 𝔀𝓻𝓲𝓽𝓮 𝓪 𝓼𝓽𝓸𝓻𝔂 𝔀𝓲𝓽𝓱 𝓶𝓮 𝓲𝓷 𝓽𝓱𝓮 𝓵𝓮𝓪𝓭 𝓻𝓸𝓵𝓮, 𝓲𝓽 𝔀𝓸𝓾𝓵𝓭 𝓬𝓮𝓻𝓽𝓪𝓲𝓷𝓵𝔂 𝓫𝓮... 𝓪 𝓽𝓻𝓪𝓰𝓮𝓭𝔂.•°*”˜•°*”˜💀🖤🥀 |
Moonspeak said: Zukangor said: radicals view shame as a barrier to freedom, it seems they have lost their sense of self-worth. Why should shame be linked to having a sense of self worth ? Because they are two sides of the same coin. In spectrum of feelings, the territory of shame include: • Inadequacy – Sense of being unfit, not up to the task, inferior, devalued. • Humiliation – Embarrassment, disgrace, degradation, loss of face, slap in the face, comedown. • Remorse – Contrition, regret over wrongdoing, feeling abashed, self-reproach, conscience-stricken. Do you define your worth by your ability to follow norms ? Actually, that's not all, but let's zoom out the discussion around values and norms. Values are believed to be different by everyone. Since norms depend on the values that are believed, so don't be surprised if the norms that exist in one area can be different from other areas. In other words, norms do not apply in general. The clear difference between them is that the norms are more concrete, firm, and transparent. Violators of norms will be given certain treatment or punishment in certain society. I believe that the value of a person universally lies in the success of one living life and giving more (benefit) to life than he receives. |
| shame is good to truly see the consequence of your bad choices |
| good opinions on anything, block = I own you |
| Any strong negative emotion should inform a change in behavior, ideally. I feel shame when I let my anger get the best of me and I don't parent as well as I'd like to. I guess it's helpful to at least remember how I felt when I felt ashamed, ideally again without it piling on and just making me feel worse. |
 |
I'll be honest, I'm a shameless creature ok @Moonspeak I'm also gonna be honest & say Im super jealous! I WISH I was a totally shameless person in certain aspects of my life. Alas that is soooo not the case.. I think I have a typical amount of shame in this body! And of course my biggest critic it myself, so I'll feel embarrassed or ashamed of myself about things that most people dont care about/remember Of course shame can be critical for some people to self-evaluate and filter what they say and how they act around others. mwinner said: I agree that shame should result in an amount of humbleness, but not necessarily guilt UNLESS (like you said) there were words/actions that hurt someone elseHumbling someone, letting them know what their actions resulted in/the weight of their actions, or to make them feel guilt. |
ArabianLuffy said: What is shame? What is shame to you? The betrayal. The reputation. Those close to you. Does a man (as a father) feel shame if his daughter has gone to beach in a bikini? Or if she had sex with multiple men? I am not the father, or the son or the holy moly ghost lol. I wouldn't care if she grown she has a place of own she takes care of herself I don't care. Sleep with a thousand men I don't care. Don't ever ask me for shelter or money. |
Order-Sol said: I am not the father, or the son or the holy moly ghost lol. I wouldn't care if she grown she has a place of own she takes care of herself I don't care. Sleep with a thousand men I don't care. Don't ever ask me for shelter or money. Everyone lives by their own standards. |
|
ArabianLuffy said: Order-Sol said: I am not the father, or the son or the holy moly ghost lol. I wouldn't care if she grown she has a place of own she takes care of herself I don't care. Sleep with a thousand men I don't care. Don't ever ask me for shelter or money. Everyone lives by their own standards. I know, why you shouldn't for what your future daughter or son may do. |
| i dont like shame :( in my parents' country you can be shamed for everything but its just to force you to live according to whats accepted (ex. i have to remove earrings + piercings and dye my hair when i visit because its not accepted here) so yeah shame is not much useful imho |
  |
| @zenviolet It kinda grows with experience. Like, I used to be a bit more reserved with this stuff, but whenever someone told me I should be ashamed to do this or that, I'd actually feel pride in showing them I didn't give a shit. Shame is used by the group to crush individuals who don't adhere to arbitrary norms. Like, I won't kill someone, not because I'd feel any shame, but just because I have no desire to do so. (at least not on most days) I'm pretty certain many hardcore criminals feel plenty of shame now and then, I doubt it's something that actually prevents those acts, contrary to what someone posted. What does that "should" mean, anyways ? Morality, laws, social norms... they are not of divine and absolute nature, they all change, just look at our history. Why would we think we somehow know what's really good and bad this time ? In comparison, my body is a way better compass.  I believe we're not that different either. When you see someone suffering, is morality the reason you kinda want to help, or your own simple desire ? Do you follow rules when you take someone you love in your arms, or your simple animal nature that just tells you it feels good doing so ? Are your desires so wrong that you need a cage of shame, guys ? I don't believe we are so bad creatures most of the time we're told we are, guys. |
MoonspeakJul 30, 2022 9:16 AM
|
| It's the one thing keeping people from walking around completely naked. Which is both a good and a bad thing. |
| @FanofAction I was in a naturist camp a couple of months ago, and nobody seemed to have issues with that ;) Felt great, actually. Make that what you will, I guess ;p  |
|
Moonspeak said: @FanofAction I was in a naturist camp a couple of months ago, and nobody seemed to have issues with that ;) Felt great, actually. Make that what you will, I guess ;p Hey, if you have nips like that, it'd be a crime not to show them off. No one's getting lost in the dark with those around. |
| Shame is useful for making others and yourself comply and conform to morality, tradition, and societal norms by reigning in your impulses. If that's not your jam, shame can also be a fun spice to your usual Saturday night. |
 |
More topics from this board
» What Compliment Do You Hear Most Often?ParisPlayboy01 - 6 hours ago |
15 |
by Serafos
»»
46 minutes ago |
|
» Cheese Nips and the tragedy of discontinued snacksNette - 11 hours ago |
9 |
by traed
»»
1 hour ago |
|
» The very random (and possibly useless) knowledge thread ( 1 2 )DigiCat - May 22 |
52 |
by MalchikRepaid
»»
2 hours ago |
|
» 2023-2024 NBA Season Discussion ( 1 2 3 4 5 ... Last Page )deg - Jun 18, 2023 |
861 |
by zzz
»»
2 hours ago |
|
» Biggest life hot takes? ( 1 2 3 )Rabnawaz2 - Jun 15 |
123 |
by traed
»»
4 hours ago |