| What do you think character development/progression really is, and what do you think it is not? I recently got into analysing Anime more. This is what I think character progression is: It is essentially when a character changes their opinion/attitude on issues relating to themselves and issues/dilemmas they are dealing with, or in other words comes to a realization, either by themselves or through the help of other characters. But the most important thing is that once they reach that realization, it must be reinforced or "shown" (rather than simply "told") through their actions and behaviour in the remainder of the show, or through their relationships with other characters, so as to prove they have actually progressed. If this doesn't happen or if they do certain things which contradict previous realizations they have come to, then I don't consider it character development. Or rather they have hardly progressed. Character development is not when side characters "advice" or tell the main character stuff which he/she will simply hear to with a melancholic look and then contradict him/herself or not really take that "advice" into account or showing they have actually listened to it through their actions. In addition it is not when characters magically realize something, change or succeed at something too easily/quickly without any real struggles. This is what I call surface-level character progression. |
Hydre_ItoSep 2, 2021 3:47 AM
| When the character changes. Be it emotionally or something else wise. You dont have the feeling that it's still the same character you saw 10 episodes ago. It can range from minor to big changes like a drastic personality change or whatever. Also when the character growths from their experiences and mistakes, and changes their view on certain things or their goal. |
smoochie smoochie[/center] |
| You already answer your question and it's fit with your description. |
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| The way they connect the character's ideals,motivations amd psychology with us |
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| when a character evolves from A to B in a way that's relevant to the plot of the anime |
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| It gets confused with character progression most of the time. It's arguably one of the most overrated aspects. At the same time it's also often overlooked. |
One Piece episode 914 & 915 & 1027 were a mistake and 957 brought the salvation - FMmatron |
| That's absolutely not character development. What probably mean here is character progression. In short, character development is every bit of info you can tell about the character. It can range from physical appearance, to their philosophy and of course every background info about the character. |
| When a characters changes his point of view, personality, strengths, etc. |
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| Allow me to demonstrate. You see this little shit? Yeah this one, right here.  He's this absolute chad now.   That, my good friend, is the definition of character development. Good day, sir.  |
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ohohohohohoho said: character progression and character development are not the same thing. character development is insight into who the character is and why they are that way. their beliefs and motivations, how they treat others, etc. this information is delivered through various forms of direct or indirect characterization. character progression is how their attitudes and beliefs change as a result of the events of the story. if we think the change is for the better, or the character has become "more mature" like in a bildungsroman, we often call it character growth. Hrybami said: That's absolutely not character development. What probably mean here is character progression. In short, character development is every bit of info you can tell about the character. It can range from physical appearance, to their philosophy and of course every background info about the character. What you're describing as character development doesn't seem to fit with the word "development", development literally means change for the better. What you described I would call character exploration and depth. |
Hydre_Ito said: What you're describing as character development doesn't seem to fit with the word "development", development literally means change for the better. What you described I would call character exploration and depth. I'm not the one who decided that. Character development means something while character progression means another thing. Those concepts aren't free of interpretation. If you want to talk about character progression it would be best not to name it after another already per-established concept... or just say character progression instead. |
| When a character’s characterisation and personality change in a permanent and meaningful way. |
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ohohohohohoho said: @hydre_ito you can choose to call it what you want really. if you google it you will get conflicting answers from different sources, because how people use terms colloquially affects their meaning. as long as you clarify what you're referring to. a writer has to make a character from nothing into something before your eyes. they are "developing" the character from nothing into something. like "developing" a photo (i guess most people don't really do this anymore XD) or "developing" a theory. then after the character is *something* it can progress or grow into something different. when characters progress it isn't always for the better, anyway. but i suppose you could argue that it's better for a character to be something than nothing. seems to fit the word "development" to me. Ok, I get what you mean But tbh I don't think there's any need for these two phrases to mean different things. Since for the "character development" that you're describing one could just refer to it as character depth and exploration. It's much clearer this way. Clearly people are starting to use these phrases interchangeably anyway |
Hydre_ItoSep 1, 2021 9:53 AM
| Character development requires that the writing fleshes out the belief system / inner motivation of a character. Then story events happen repeated which are in contrast to the existing believe system. Change happens, but gradually and driven by a change to the belief system and gets feedback in the form of the reaction of other characters. After some iterations (as many as possible, but anime has limited time) the belief system is adapted -> character development has happened. A mere change in behavior technically is character development, but what makes it good writing is that the inner conflict and belief system is transparent. Else it easily becomes "forced development" without credibility. Also a tragic backstory alone is not already the belief system, not everybody bullied in school has the same changes in their traits (=visible part of the belief system). So showing the cause alone is also not sufficient. It's not even necessary, we don't really need to know why somebody is e.g. a scrooge, as long as it's made transparent, credible and visible that the character is one. To learn the tragic backstory about bitter poverty in childhood is a plus, but not the same and not really needed. |
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ohohohohohoho said: Hydre_Ito said: Ok, I get what you mean But tbh I don't think there's any need for these two phrases to mean different things. Since for the "character development" that you're describing one could just refer to it as character depth and exploration. It's much clearer this way. If you're using development to mean progression, then what about the example I gave above (dragon ball)? Sometimes a character isn't meant to progress. Tell me why that's a bad thing in the context of this show, and is it true for ALL of the characters? Actually, I personally don't always see character progression as necessary, I don't judge every show in the same way, in some shows its just not meant to be there and wouldn't fit with the plot or what the Anime is trying to do. Death Note is good example where character progression isn't very important in my opinion. Although I would say character depth and exploration are. However, Im not sure about Dragon Ball, whether character development is necessary or not here depends on the dilemmas the characters are facing and the themes the show explores. ohohohohohoho said: Hydre_Ito said: Ok, I get what you mean But tbh I don't think there's any need for these two phrases to mean different things. Since for the "character development" that you're describing one could just refer to it as character depth and exploration. It's much clearer this way. Or if you're using it to mean character depth.. that raises its own problem. A character can be have sufficient characterization to feel like a distinct person without being "deep." It's rare for many characters to be explored too deeply simultaneously, but you still should expect secondary characters to be developed more or less into distinct characters. It really doesn't take much time to develop a character, but you can "explore" a character over the course of a whole narrative. In fact, couldn't you even say that their progression is a part of that exploration, or that it lends them more depth? I do agree with your last statement here. Progression is technically adding more depth. What you're describing is basically what makes a character "deep" ohohohohohoho said: Hydre_Ito said: Ok, I get what you mean But tbh I don't think there's any need for these two phrases to mean different things. Since for the "character development" that you're describing one could just refer to it as character depth and exploration. It's much clearer this way. Anyway, what it comes down to is that when you're writing analyses, you have to explain clearly what you mean. Terms like this are helpful because they are shorthand, and nobody needs to guess what you mean. I am explaining the terms according to how I learned about them taking literature classes and whatnot, but lit theorists are also nowadays big on the notion that in language meaning comes from how terms are used, not how they're defined. Yep, I will keep this mind |
Hydre_ItoSep 1, 2021 3:10 PM
inim said: A mere change in behavior technically is character development, but what makes it good writing is that the inner conflict and belief system is transparent. Else it easily becomes "forced development" without credibility. Also a tragic backstory alone is not already the belief system, not everybody bullied in school has the same changes in their traits (=visible part of the belief system). So showing the cause alone is also not sufficient. It's not even necessary, we don't really need to know why somebody is e.g. a scrooge, as long as it's made transparent, credible and visible that the character is one. To learn the tragic backstory about bitter poverty in childhood is a plus, but not the same and not really needed. "Also a tragic backstory alone is not already the belief system, not everybody bullied in school has the same changes in their traits (=visible part of the belief system)" I don't quite understand what you mean by this. "we don't really need to know why somebody is e.g. a scrooge, as long as it's made transparent, credible and visible that the character is one." Backstories or justifications as to why a character is a certain way are really important in my opinion. They're are necessary for us to understand the character properly, especially if what said character is doing is disturbing or unpleasant, viewers absolutely need to understand the "whys" |
| Character development is about a character's character being explored so we learn more about them. They don't necessarily have to change or undergo an arc to be developed. |
| Shoot first, think never. |
| Actually, that would be growth. While development is often used to refer to growth, the actual definition is "the process of portraying a fictional character such the audience learns more about them." But keep in mind that doesn't mean something minor and non-contributory like finding out their shoe size or date of birth, but finding out about their personality, aspirations and way of thinking. A useful (though imperfect) metric that can be used is that good character development should explain why the character does what they do, and let you predict what they may likely do next. Similar to what you said, this too needs to be shown, not told. For instance, other characters remarking how sad or how angry a character is comes off as vapid, whereas being given information about their past and goals could allow you to figure it out for yourself. It also needs to be consistent - if someone did something that makes no sense in comparison to their established character, that would be, as the name suggests, uncharacteristic. Growth, on the other hand, is largely what you said, a notable change in a character's worldview or philosophy that alters their actions going forward. The stuff you list as "bad development," I'd go one step further and say they aren't development or growth at all. They're just poor, shallow writing in general. Also, an important distinction nobody seems to have yet made is between a Dynamic and Static character. Both can develop, but only the former can grow. Dynamic characters are those you may find in most single-instalment stories, such as a standalone Novel or Movie. Dynamic characters are intentionally supposed to grow, written with said change in mind. The Hero's Journey model of storytelling favours this, at the "Ordeal in the Abyss/Death and Rebirth" stage of the cycle. Static characters, on the other hand, are intended to stay the same. They most usually crop up in Sitcoms, or other shows that are intended to run indefinitely, where having a change would act as a sort of "limit" to that character's presence in the story. Of course, that's not to say Dynamic and Static characters can't cross from one to another. If a book or movie gets many unexpected sequels, a formerly Dynamic character has no room to develop and must stay Static going forward, or alternatively a side character who never had an arc of their own may be given one, going from Static to Dynamic. |
| Well I for one already loved Lain. |
| You know how pokemon evolve. Characters evolve in a similar way. When they reach level 16 and later at level 36. |
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