| I don't know I always wondered why normal people don't want to partake in degeneracy. |
 |
TheUnfairMAL said: jadedgalaxy said: The focus of Yuri on Ice isn’t on the relationship between Victor and Yuuri, it’s on the figure skating. It’s a sports anime that just so happens to have a gay relationship. If that makes you uncomfortable then so be it but I think you’ve unfairly categorized it as a BL anime when it isn’t. Really? Because I've seen some clips of Yuri on Ice on YouTube and it looks like those gay scenes between Victor and Yuuri are there every now and then, which kinda makes them a big part of the anime, and those frequent clips were enough to make me uncomfortable, hence it being a BL, at least for me, I don't know what your requirements are for an anime to be a BL, but for me those were enough to be considered as a BL. There is, it's just not the main focus. The main focus is Yuuri getting into competition again with the aid of Viktor, and the series is structured on various tournament arcs. If you are this sensitive to ANY BL content don't watch it though. |
Peaceful_Critic said: deg said: No problem.@Peaceful_Critic ye thanks and lol he thinks those are just some crappy blogs that i link but whatever also im not gonna bother linking disgust and homophobia from now on Well, you were right here: "homophobia be it mild or severe and homophobia is rooted on disgust most of the time" it isn't like linking it is wrong by itself. You had the stuff to back your original statement up, and you did so well. It was just this statement that didn't really sound reasonable to me: "nah im just saying the disgust towards gay sex for example is homophobia too" ^If you hadn't said that afterward, I would have thought @Gator overreacted to a neutral statement and interpreted it wrongly. As your original post on this thread was perfectly fine and isn't comparable to the argument you had afterward. welp english is not my first language so language barrier strikes again then |
jal90 said: Free and Yuri on Ice are both sports anime and only the second has a BL story that is not even the main focus. You seam to be the clueless one here...but I guess you are actually pretending. Was training some swimming once so I checked Free out of curiosity...many of the sport aspects were totally ridiculous and this show is 90% fujoshi bait. Nothing for me in it. |
alshu said: jal90 said: Free and Yuri on Ice are both sports anime and only the second has a BL story that is not even the main focus. You seam to be the clueless one here...but I guess you are actually pretending. Was training some swimming once so I checked Free out of curiosity...many of the sport aspects were totally ridiculous and this show is 90% fujoshi bait. Nothing for me in it. Oh, shut up. Don't give me the "unrealistic" card to sell me that an anime I've watched three seasons and various movies of and have up to date is not about what I say it is. That's also not even a counterargument. The pirates of One Piece are unrealistic and yet it's a pirate-themed anime. |
| It doesn't seem like something I would enjoy. Also the character designs tend to be crap. |
| MEA·MENTVLA·INGENS·EST |
| Probably because it's not interesting or relatable? |
| ████████▀▀░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░▀▀███████ ██████▀░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░▀██████ █████░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░█████ ████░░░░░▄▄▄▄▄▄▄░░░░░░░░▄▄▄▄▄▄░░░░░████ ████░░▄██████████░░░░░░██▀░░░▀██▄░░████ ████░░███████████░░░░░░█▄░░▀░░▄██░░████ █████░░▀▀███████░░░██░░░██▄▄▄█▀▀░░█████ ██████░░░░░░▄▄▀░░░████░░░▀▄▄░░░░░██████ █████░░░░░█▄░░░░░░▀▀▀▀░░░░░░░█▄░░░█████ █████░░░▀▀█░█▀▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▀██▀▀░░█████ ██████░░░░░▀█▄░░█░░█░░░█░░█▄▀░░░░██▀▀▀▀ ▀░░░▀██▄░░░░░░▀▀█▄▄█▄▄▄█▄▀▀░░░░▄█▀░░░▄▄ ▄▄▄░░░▀▀██▄▄▄▄░░░░░░░░░░░░▄▄▄███░░░▄██▄ ██████▄▄░░▀█████▀█████▀██████▀▀░░▄█████ ██████████▄░░▀▀█▄░░░░░▄██▀▀▀░▄▄▄███▀▄██ |
But they tried to sell its sport aspects as at least semi realistic even got some parts right - mostly the visual ones (looked too perfect tho) but the rest was totally absurd. jal90 said: s not about what I say it is. Implied BL (aka fujoshi bait) is still BL. |
alshu said: But they tried to sell its sport aspects as at least semi realistic even got some parts right - mostly the visual ones (looked too perfect tho) but the rest was totally absurd. jal90 said: s not about what I say it is. Implied BL (aka fujoshi bait) is still BL. Implied BL also means that BL is not what this show is about. At this point we are arguing for the sake of, yes, Free has some vague elements to spice up but it's not about BL. It's first sport in whatever realistic/unrealistic fashion, second character drama/slice of life. |
When it's the dominant part, that it's what the show is about. jal90 said: Free has some vague elements to spice up but it's not about BL. Not true. This is its main selling point, this is why most of the people are watching it. jal90 said: It's first sport Like Chihayafuru is sport first...which is not, it's mainly josei drama. jal90 said: second character drama/slice of life. Yep, even those are secondary to homoeroticism. |
Except it's not. jal90 said: Free has some vague elements to spice up but it's not about BL. Not true. This is its main selling point, this is why most of the people are watching it. Many people watch anime for the character designs, and I'm pretty sure anime have a story that is not about character designs. If we are talking narrative ("about"), then let's talk narrative. jal90 said: It's first sport Like Chihayafuru is sport first...which is not, it's mainly josei drama. Free is literally structured through character goals that all involve competition, god damn alshu, do not argue with people who have experience with the show and can see through this bullshit. The only thing I admit debate on is precisely on whether character drama/slice of life is secondary to the sport or not. Same as how the character drama is explored through karuta in Chihayafuru, they are not so clearly separated. jal90 said: second character drama/slice of life. Yep, even those are secondary to homoeroticism. Because you say so. |
Whatever. jal90 said: Many people watch anime for the character designs, and I'm pretty sure anime have a story that is not about character designs. And the poses, the moves and the double entendre situations... This narrative looks like a form of excuse to me...and even porn has some sort of story and "narrative". See "form of excuse". jal90 said: god damn alshu, do not argue with people who have experience with the show I bet it was a really deep and enriching experience...actually I don't. Can't see it working even as drama. jal90 said: and can see through this bullshit This is like me saying "Peter Grill is a silly ecchi comedy." and someone oppose me "Now this is bullshit! Peter Grill is about building deep interpersonal relationships between people." I could be right and only few like you watched if for the "narrative". |
| Maybe they just find those types of relationships unappealing in a way that's not even necessarily homophobic. I think it's easy to get the presumption that some guys are just insecure about their masculinity or whatever, but that's quite presumptions and unfair not fair to cast that net on everybody. I'm bisexual myself, but I could totally see why some may feel uncomfortable at the sight of two men getting a little too intimate with each other. |
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| Okay I'll bite. As a gay guy, I have a few thoughts on this so... The pretty simple premise is that: a. Straight men are not interested in BL romance because of their sexual preferences therefore b. Straight men are not interested in watching an anime that contains BL romance. That's fair I guess. I can totally understand that. The real question comes from this: if gay guys are happy to watch and are interested in straight romances, then why doesn't it work the other way round. Straight guys have a monopoly on culture - that's just the facts. The majority of entertainment, in this case, anime is geared towards straight male viewers. Straight men aren't used to having to watch content that isn't geared towards them and try to enjoy it. So because they've never had to do that, they've never learnt to do that. There are obviously some exceptions to this but that's the general idea. There is very, very little content out there geared at gay audiences - even yaoi is technically geared at straight women. That's understandable, we're a minority - it's hardly lucrative for companies to market things at gay people because it's often not as profitable. So, as gay people we have to watch content for straight people. We're used to it. We constantly just have to learn to be okay watching straight romance because that's mostly what there is. When I was a kid or a teenager there was basically nothing in the way of gay content. The only thing I remember growing up was "Will and Grace". So I've grown up with straight content in every single facet of my life so of course gay guys are going to enjoy straight romance. As there are more BL shows and content being made - especially good ones like Given and Doukyuusei that don't have all the bad tropes, maybe straight guys will be more open to giving them a try and they'll realise that as long as a romance has a good plot and characters, it can be enjoyed by anyone. Anyway, that's just my take on it. I'm not looking for a big argument here, it's just my opinion. |
  🔥 🔥 🔥 . 阿良々木 暦, 傷 物 語 . 🔥 🔥 🔥 Build a man a fire and you'll warm him for a night but set a man on fire and you'll warm him for the rest of his life... - H E N D Y - |
alshu said: Whatever. jal90 said: Many people watch anime for the character designs, and I'm pretty sure anime have a story that is not about character designs. And the poses, the moves and the double entendre situations... This narrative looks like a form of excuse to me...and even porn has some sort of story and "narrative". See "form of excuse". jal90 said: god damn alshu, do not argue with people who have experience with the show I bet it was a really deep and enriching experience...actually I don't. Can't see it working even as drama. jal90 said: and can see through this bullshit This is like me saying "Peter Grill is a silly ecchi comedy." and someone oppose me "Now this is bullshit! Peter Grill is about building deep interpersonal relationships between people." I could be right and only few like you watched if for the "narrative". I'm pretty sure people who watch it for the "fujoshi bait" will find better shows for that than one that offers a couple double entendres every few episodes at most and is mostly teen angst and swimming. And I say that with experience, not with "I checked and it was like that so I try to argue with somebody who has been following the whole story". Like, alshu, why are you even trying at this point. "Can't see it working even as drama". Ugh, how dense can you be with something you are not even remotely right about. "Deep and enriching" sure, like this is what we are debating here, don't move the goalpost like this. |
| I'm not interested in romance in the first place, but if I was, as I have been during a few months some times ago : it would probably because of what I search in the first place in romance : some kind of cute, loving story between someone I can relate to and someone I can be attracted to. and as I am not attracted to boys, I can neither relate to the boys who love boys, and I am not attracted to the boy as I'd be with the girl either , so the two reasons why I'd ever want to watch romance disapears. tbh this question seems a little stupid. or obvious. |
| Because it's very rare whenever I want to watch an anime that doesn't predominantly feature cute girls I mean I have Kaiji in my favorites, but in general it's rare that I'm interested in watching shows that have predominantly male casts, genre being irrelevant not having a predominantly male cast seems a bit antithetical to BL |
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| I prefer straight couples in original works since I find those more relatable, but it doesn't stop me from watching gay shows if they're good. As for fandom, I ship whoever has good chemistry together, regardless of gender, so it's gay 50% of time. By the way, I hate, hate it when the romance feels tacked on and two characters end up together just because they're the Main Guy and the Main Girl. Those couples are usually straight since the point is that they end up together only because they're expected to or as an afterthought. Even badly written gay romance tends to have more thought put into it than that... Then again, I'm a woman, so I can't explain why so many men seem allergic to it. I can't understand it either. |
| You literally answered yourself.Because they're straight If he doesn't like it in real life, why should he like it in anime? Well I kinda like yuri though but BL, yaoi, etc are absolute no-no |
| هیچوقت بهتر نمیشه |
| I'm ok with BL if the story is good. But I'm into BG and GL. I don't refuse to watch or anything like that |
 |
Gator said: "If you like lolis, you're a pedophile" O_O Yes. Gator said: Next thing you're telling me is that I'm racist if I don't wanna date a black woman. And yes. Needs more characters. |
| I am straight and I don't mind watching two dudes trying to love each other or whatnot. Romance never bothers me if it's done well, genders don't bother me at all. It might make other straight people uncomfortable because people are still slowly getting more aware and gaining more "Knawlage". It will still take some time before everyone gets accustomed to it and be OK with it. |
  Why do you hate cats? ♫ |
| Guess it's a matter of personal taste. Yesterday for example I watched Doukyuusei and after 10 minutes I realized it was a yaoi (I do not read the plot or any other information before watching an anime), and I enjoyed it anyway. But I can imagine that some people might not feel comortable with that. |
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By this logic Keijo is also "structured through character goals that all involve competition". jal90 said: And I say that with experience, not with "I checked and it was like that so I try to argue with somebody who has been following the whole story". I never watched Keijo and I still can guess pretty well what this show is about...and I even have some experience with Free so my prognosis is more accurate. jal90 said: why are you even trying at this point. To state my opinion... jal90 said: "Can't see it working even as drama". Ugh, how dense can you be with something you are not even remotely right about. Those boys looked pretty dumb an irrational (for charters interested is sports) to me. Any drama with them would be totally unrelatable to me. jal90 said: "Deep and enriching" sure, like this is what we are debating here Actually this is what we are doing in this topic - everybody who isn't interested by BL wouldn't be moved by it or even bother to follow some story in which it's the main theme. jal90 said: "don't move the goalpost like this. That was a side note about how much I was interested by the secondary things in Free. |
Boutroux said: Gator said: "If you like lolis, you're a pedophile" O_O Yes. Gator said: Next thing you're telling me is that I'm racist if I don't wanna date a black woman. And yes. You have horrible opinions. You should learn to distinguish fiction from reality and that sexual preferences are not discriminating. |
| Probably because some people aren't comfortable with that? I can imagine that if you're someone who really likes to self-insert that a BL character would turn you off. |
| I'm looking for recommendations, always. Please message me if you have any really good (maybe relatively unknown) anime for me! |
petran79 said: @horridhendy There was a time when even straight romance was subject to strict and conservative rules on TV and cinema. Even now, nudity and sex are a controversial topic in mainstream media if they break down stereotypes. Eg movie Baise-moi caused quite a stir in France because it elevated in extreme ways the status of marginalised immigrant women, plus director had not the education and connections of the established members of the global film industry. Restrictions or not, there is still a lot of straight romance out there and there always has been. Even under the Hays Code of classic cinema there was straight romance. Even Shakespearean plays have straight romance. I'm not talking about edgy or extreme sexual content. Just basic romance. That makes sense, it's catering to the majority, of course there's more straight romance out there. My point was that the reason that gay people are okay with watching straight romance is because they've been exposed to it and had to get used to watching it because that's pretty much all that was out there. Straight guys aren't used to watching romance that isn't catered to a straight audience so they don't like romance that's not for them - that's fine, it makes sense. I don't really blame any straight guy for not watching BL - why would they when there's already so much content out there for them that they can enjoy. |
🔥 🔥 🔥 . 阿良々木 暦, 傷 物 語 . 🔥 🔥 🔥 Build a man a fire and you'll warm him for a night but set a man on fire and you'll warm him for the rest of his life... - H E N D Y - |
| Why must i force myself to watch something that i dislike? Obviously because im not a masochist |
| I think the whole seme-uke thing ruins huge swathes of anything BL-influenced from having decent storytelling. Additionally from a personal perspective, I tend to prefer having lots of female characters around, since they tend to be nicer characters, less likely to be macho or authority figures, and I like looking at many of them. Plus any scene which assumes the viewer is going to be attracted to these boys or their sexy deeds with each other just isn't going to work for me for orientation reasons. But the seme-uke thing is the big issue they tend to have. |
| Because why would they? You're pondering a question when the answer is obvious. |
| They might be seen as gay by some of their friends for watching stuff like that even tho they don't understand because they've probably never seen a gay/Yuri a nine before. Plus some guys just feel uncomfortable with it (I do a bit, depends how hardcore the gayness is). |
| Good question. I think this is just one of those eternal cosmic mysteries that will never be solved, like "why do non-SOL fans not like SOL?", "why do fans of moe tend to watch less non-moe shows?", and "why do you get wet when you go out in the rain?". Maybe we'll never know. Sarcasm aside, I do have an idea. Being gay is a niche sexuality. There are a few people who have a broad taste and can enjoy any romance, but while most people, including gay people, can enjoy a straight romance, gay romance tends to mostly only appeal to the gay demographic. It's very similar to how genres work. Almost anyone can enjoy a show with generic magic powers, but mecha? Appeals much more specifically to its own demographic. |
| “In individuals, insanity is rare; but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule.” -Friedrich Nietzsche Aggregate scoring is bad for the anime fandom |
| HH: Why don't people without a scat fetish watch scat porn? Boobguy: Scat porn makes most people want to vomit. HH: Yeah, but people who watch scat porn can also watch normal porn. I just don't get why it isn't the other way around. |
| I really think it's mostly just insecurity about their sexuality and a lack of emotional maturity because they can't distinguish between sexual attraction and emotions of empathy and convince themselves the two can only occur together. So they close themselves off to feel any kind of empathy or relate to any part of their struggle when it comes to gay characters since in their worldview being invested emotional to any capacity would mean they are gay and want to secretly fuck that character. So they won't even try, they're mentlaly closed off to the idea of finding a gay character relatable in any way or be emotionally invested in them as a character, as a person. To them empathy is strictly linked to sexual attraction or identification because why else would you care about a character/person if not because you want to fuck them? Anyone with a minimum of emotional maturity can answer that question with a bunch of different answers, but they can't. If they don't want to fuck it (or self-insert I guess), they have no interest in that character or that part of the anime and since BL promises at least some parts of the anime being about that they aren't interested. I honestly believe that it's always a choice on some level to just refuse to relate to non-straight romance. It's not like being hetero makes people incapable of relating to universal feelings like love or the universal features of relationships. All people need to be is willing to get out of their comfort zone because that's all it is - a comfort zone created via lack of exposure. It's not a law of nature that you're weirded out or grossed out by the idea of homosexuality - a lot will depend on how you grow up and whether you have exposure to it or not, how your surroundings treat homosexuality during your formative years. That being said I don't hold it against anyone if they don't want to get out of their comfort zone. Not everyone is as willing and curious to expand their comfort zone as I am. But I would like it for people to at least acknowledge that it's not some inevitable law of god that makes them unable to appreciate non-hetero romance, it's just a comfort zone that developed as they grew up which they choose not to leave. But I know from experience that you can move out of that comfort zone. I used to be just as antsy as a lot of people are around gay stuff, barely being able to look at it - when I was ~14-16, so half my lifetime ago. But in retrospect that was mostly unwarranted psychological hysteria and over time with exposure (e.g. one of my best friends coming out as gay and meeting a lot of ay people through him in the years after that, but also with homosexuality being depicted more frequently and more seriously in media starting with the 2000s) it stopped being an issue whatsoever. It's still not attractive to me to watch males kiss - my sexual orientation hasn't changed - but it's neutral to me now the same way a hetero couple kissing is when I'm not attracted to them. I don't get anything out of watching it, but it also doesn't ruin anything - and I can focus on other stuff - like the underlying emotions of a romance or the personality of the characters behind the 'gay' label. Same stuff I would focus on in a hetero romance by the way, because most of the time when I watch those my motivation isn't that I want to fuck the female character either - it's just to watch romance unfold, appreciate the feelings of love and the struggles of maintaining a relationship. Anyone can overcome the kind of pseudo-homophobia that comes from a lack of exposure and tabooization while growing up, if they want to. But it takes some effort and willingness to do so, like it always does when you're trying to get out of your comfort zone to further your range of experiences and emotions. To me it's comparable to people who are afraid of, idk, spiders. If it isn't a full clinical phobia, you can either choose to lean into your fear of spiders and squeal every time you see one, run away and let someone else take care of it. Or you can try to get over it, force yourself to deal with the spider yourself and after a few times you won't be bothered by it anymore since the fear, the hysteria was never rational to begin with and only existed within your brain. Most people choose to lean into their fears, make them part of their personality, their identity, but that's not the only option. It's always a choice to not try and get over it when you're afraid of or grossed out by watching gay stuff in any capacity and quantity. As long as they don't deny that and try to wrap their refusal to watch anything involving homosexuality in some sort of naturalistic philosophy where it's just a law of nature that noone can appreciate any romance with characters they don't directly want to fuck, people can do what they want. It's a choice, but it is their choice. Just don't cloak it in bullshit arguments to make it sound inevitable, because it isn't. Comfort and laziness are good enough reasons, no need to make up absurd justifications and generalizations beyond that. |
AlcoholicideAug 24, 2020 6:36 AM
| I probably regret this post by now. |
| It's just like mecha genre for me,I have a rough idea about it and I know it will not interest me so I will not watch it.Instead I will prefer some other anime which have elements that I like.But if its something great and is known for elements other than BL,then I will watch it.A great example of this is Yuri on Ice and tbh in this anime,I never felt anything about BL and the relationship between Victor and the other guy,which was predominantly a mentor-student one was heart-warming to watch |
| Can't relate to yaoi as much, and I think its pretty nasty |
AquaMailman said: HH: Why don't people without a scat fetish watch scat porn? Boobguy: Scat porn makes most people want to vomit. HH: Yeah, but people who watch scat porn can also watch normal porn. I just don't get why it isn't the other way around. Yeah because romance = porn. That makes no sense whatsoever, you're comparing apples and oranges here. A romance anime has a much broader appeal than porn so not being into it from one small angle (sexual attraction) doesn't have to mean shit for how good or enjoyable it is as a romance. Between character personalities and chemistry, universal emotions like love, jealousy, selfishness and their psychological execution, relationship dynamics and struggles or outside factors changing the dynamic there are so many more aspects and nuances that make up the bulk of the substance of any romance and aren't related at all to whether you find one of the characters sexually attractive. ON the other hand in porn there is nothing else that matters aside from whether you're sexually attracted to what's going on on-screen. It's a singular effort and the appeal of a porn lives and dies 100% with that attraction. So of course in that context it makes sense to have sexual attraction be the only criteria, the only thing mattering. But if you think romance anime can be reduced to just sexual attraction the same way porn can be, you're weird as fuck cause there's so much more to a good romance than there is to porn. The physical side of it is the least important thing, often completely excluded from romance (especially in anime where you frequently don't get any further than hand-holding or maybe one kiss). So yeah, very weird and very shitty comparison that makes no sense once you invest a few brain cells in thinking it through. |
| I probably regret this post by now. |
| I think that it's just their fragile masculinity getting the better of them. Those are the types of guys who are "supportive of lesbians" but would rather have their son be a criminal rather than gay. Basically only support lgtbq+ if it's in their own interest, example because they have a fetish for lesbians or whatever.Still doesn't make them any less homophobic if the only sexuality they accept is the one they have a fetish for. |
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