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Mouloxas said: *Side role and still not really. We've got a trio coming up to play the main fanservice role. Hahah now I am truly terrified. Is the plot in 0 so inferior to the original that they had to resort to fanservice? I didn't check the VN. |
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A_Haiku_Unloose said: Great to see the characters again, but other than that, that was not very impressive, also Makise's "theory" is what is basically known about storning memories in the brain today (actually less than what is known today), and I don't see anyone in real world developing an "AI with emotions and memories", 1st ep and already crap pseudoscience? The original was pretty believable unlike this. Except they literally used the "storing memories" stuff to make the time leap machine work in the first season so you can't call this crap pseudoscience and not that. To refresh your mind, it's not just scientific knowlegde of how it works, Kurisu literally contructed a way to copy a person's memory patterns into a computer and convert it into usable data (which is then applied to a program to form an AI) Also you think [sending terabytes worth of memory data to a giant particle accelerator to convert it into just a couple of bytes, then send it to the past as audio waves to "transplant" said memories into the brain of whoever hears it] is more believable and achievable than brain memory AI??? |
HyperLApr 11, 2018 2:19 PM
| You are not your body, you are your brain, the "self" that emerges from within it. |
| I missed this series so much... after several years, they've finally made the sequel/alternative story into a anime. I'm so happy for this rn honestly. From just this episode so far, they've adapted it super well. About, a quarter through the prologue. Scenes from the game I've experienced were amazing. I love seeing VNs I played get adapted. I have high hopes for this anime.. Also that maho scene was spot on with the VN. |
BlackZenith said: This is trying a bit too hard to be Steins;Gate, and not enough to be Steins;Gate 0. A bit disappointed with the lighter tone, but I guess that's how it goes, the common anime watcher can't handle S;G0 atmosphere right from the start, and have to be eased into it slowly. Huge fan of the VN though, will watch till the end regardless. 0 also started with lighter atmosphere though.. They just rearranged some events a bit to make for a better character introduction. A_Haiku_Unloose said: Mouloxas said: *Side role and still not really. We've got a trio coming up to play the main fanservice role. Hahah now I am truly terrified. Is the plot in 0 so inferior to the original that they had to resort to fanservice? I didn't check the VN. The original also had bunch of fanservice moments. Some sides might not have a very important role, but I don't think anyone exist solely for the fanservice. |
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| Finally, the adventures of Lintahlo and his shaman girls. |
HyperL said: A_Haiku_Unloose said: Great to see the characters again, but other than that, that was not very impressive, also Makise's "theory" is what is basically known about storning memories in the brain today (actually less than what is known today), and I don't see anyone in real world developing an "AI with emotions and memories", 1st ep and already crap pseudoscience? The original was pretty believable unlike this. Except they literally used the "storing memories" stuff to make the time leap machine work in the first season so you can't call this crap pseudoscience and not that. To refresh your mind, it's not just scientific knowlegde of how it works, Kurisu literally contructed a way to copy a person's memory patterns into a computer and convert it into usable data (which is then applied to a program to form an AI) Also you think [sending terabytes worth of memory data to a giant particle accelerator to convert it into just a couple of bytes, then send it to the past as audio waves to "transplant" said memories into the brain of whoever hears it] is more believable and achievable than brain memory AI??? Not just memories, but emotions too... That's the worst part. :D |
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A_Haiku_Unloose said: Mouloxas said: *Side role and still not really. We've got a trio coming up to play the main fanservice role. Hahah now I am truly terrified. Is the plot in 0 so inferior to the original that they had to resort to fanservice? I didn't check the VN. >Implying fanservice just exists as a mere ploy only used by series not confident on their plot. Relax dude, the plot is just as good as the first. People are too paranoid and skeptical about fanservice. |
HyperLApr 11, 2018 4:33 PM
| You are not your body, you are your brain, the "self" that emerges from within it. |
| Fucking amazing, was kinda scared but looks like it's going to be a solid season. Excited! |
AymafApr 11, 2018 2:38 PM
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| It's been too long. I WELCOME STEINS;GATE 0 WITH MY HUMBLING EMBRACE. Loved this first episode, excited for the next. |
| 2D > 3D |
| This is my most hyped show this season, even with the likes of Food Wars and My Hero Academia airing at the same time. Man have I've been looking forward to this for so long! =D The start did surprise me a little though. I'm still playing through the VN version at the moment, but the producers did re-arrange the start a bit, but they did make it work really well. The scenes with the cast was filled with warmth, but also concern and worry, considering what Okabe has gone through. His PTSD moment was REALLY disturbing and very well done too. The one thing I've been looking forward to the most was seeing Maho Hiyajo animated and I'm pleased with her appearance so far. She's one of my favourite characters from the VN right now and I'm going to enjoy seeing her in more animated scenes as the show goes on. Great start White Fox. =D |
BlackZenith said: Actual neuroscientist with Machine Learning skills here. It is actually very, VERY possible to imitate human emotions and behaviour if you have a sofisticated enough neural network encompassing the whole of CA4/CA1/EC/DG of hippocampus, dorsolateral prefrontal cortex for working memory, amygdala for emotions etc. You just need the relevant weights for the plasticity between the networks of each region, which would come from the "data" collected for Amadeus. You said one of the crucial things. Plasticity. The brains synapses are fluid, not stationary, so that would be a problem with "converting to data". And yes, they didn't talk about amygdala, but I let it slide as temporal lobe. You are speaking as if everything about the brain is well known and that there are basically AI with emotions on our doorstep. If it was like that, psychiatric patients wouldn't be in such a unfavorable situation atm. I am M.D, if that is important for some reason. Didn't really understand the weights part, but it doesn't sound too feasible to me. Unless there has been some amazing breakthrough in the last couple of days, about which I haven't heard, science has a rough sketch about the way emotions work (location+neurotransmitters), the rest is pretty hazy. Memories=information I can somewhat buy, but emotions=information... Not yet anyhow. |
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Sjikke said: A_Haiku_Unloose said: Hahah now I am truly terrified. Is the plot in 0 so inferior to the original that they had to resort to fanservice? I didn't check the VN. I really hope that isn't the case, it's really distracting. I was scared they'd even give Ruka a double D.. Other than the fanservice part it's really nice to see everyone again! My god, hearing that soundtrack just gives me the (good) shivers. Ruka and double D made me fall to the floor. Would be nice to see though. (But he is a guy.) |
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A_Haiku_Unloose said: BlackZenith said: Actual neuroscientist with Machine Learning skills here. It is actually very, VERY possible to imitate human emotions and behaviour if you have a sofisticated enough neural network encompassing the whole of CA4/CA1/EC/DG of hippocampus, dorsolateral prefrontal cortex for working memory, amygdala for emotions etc. You just need the relevant weights for the plasticity between the networks of each region, which would come from the "data" collected for Amadeus. You said one of the crucial things. Plasticity. The brains synapses are fluid, not stationary, so that would be a problem with "converting to data". And yes, they didn't talk about amygdala, but I let it slide as temporal lobe. You are speaking as if everything about the brain is well known and that there are basically AI with emotions on our doorstep. If it was like that, psychiatric patients wouldn't be in such a unfavorable situation atm. I am M.D, if that is important for some reason. Didn't really understand the weights part, but it doesn't sound too feasible to me. Unless there has been some amazing breakthrough in the last couple of days, about which I haven't heard, science has a rough sketch about the way emotions work (location+neurotransmitters), the rest is pretty hazy. Memories=information I can somewhat buy, but emotions=information... Not yet anyhow. Don't assume they are 100% the same person, just like people evolve, the AI can theoretically take a very different path from the original too. Information you perceive can also somehow affect your personality. |
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Aquamirror said: A_Haiku_Unloose said: You said one of the crucial things. Plasticity. The brains synapses are fluid, not stationary, so that would be a problem with "converting to data". And yes, they didn't talk about amygdala, but I let it slide as temporal lobe. You are speaking as if everything about the brain is well known and that there are basically AI with emotions on our doorstep. If it was like that, psychiatric patients wouldn't be in such a unfavorable situation atm. I am M.D, if that is important for some reason. Didn't really understand the weights part, but it doesn't sound too feasible to me. Unless there has been some amazing breakthrough in the last couple of days, about which I haven't heard, science has a rough sketch about the way emotions work (location+neurotransmitters), the rest is pretty hazy. Memories=information I can somewhat buy, but emotions=information... Not yet anyhow. Don't assume they are 100% the same person, just like people evolve, the AI can theoretically take a very different path from the original too. Information you perceive can also somehow affect your personality. Of course your experience shapes your character, but the problem here is how they would even collect emotions. Even if we can let memories slide as data, it would be wrong to call emotions something simplified as data on any level. Wouldn't you agree? |
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| Good thing I went back to rewatch both the movie and the Missing Link Special in light of this, holy shit all these tears n' feels. So goddamn excited, finally it's here! What a way to start off the show as well. Oh man. I'm certain this's gonna wreck me completely, defo not ready for what's in store. All hail Steins;Gate! |
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A_Haiku_Unloose said: Aquamirror said: Don't assume they are 100% the same person, just like people evolve, the AI can theoretically take a very different path from the original too. Information you perceive can also somehow affect your personality. Of course your experience shapes your character, but the problem here is how they would even collect emotions. Even if we can let memories slide as data, it would be wrong to call emotions something simplified as data on any level. Wouldn't you agree? Yeah, but these emotions might also come from the same data, links/contradictions between and knowing how a person acts in a specific situation then trying to copy that behavior. |
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Aquamirror said: A_Haiku_Unloose said: Of course your experience shapes your character, but the problem here is how they would even collect emotions. Even if we can let memories slide as data, it would be wrong to call emotions something simplified as data on any level. Wouldn't you agree? Yeah, but these emotions might also come from the same data, links/contradictions between and knowing how a person acts in a specific situation then trying to copy that behavior. What you said would be true if we all behaved always the same way, but obviously, the same person can act and feel differently in similar situations, emotions are not impulse A+ impulse B=emotion 1, or people would be much more predictable than they really are. (not in the same way as each other, but person A always as person A in the same situation) |
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A_Haiku_Unloose said: Aquamirror said: Yeah, but these emotions might also come from the same data, links/contradictions between and knowing how a person acts in a specific situation then trying to copy that behavior. What you said would be true if we all behaved always the same way, but obviously, the same person can act and feel differently in similar situations, emotions are not impulse A+ impulse B=emotion 1, or people would be much more predictable than they really are. (not in the same way as each other, but person A always as person A in the same situation) The anime also knows this is a tough question, and the system itself is still under testing so even they don't fully understand what to expect from it, it makes for a good thinking about these themes. The next episode should show Amadeus in action and maybe explain or introduce more things you would wonder about. Obviously you won't act the same way, and the AI won't either. It has the full data over what is deemed important and if the person against looks trusting enough, it tries to imitate what it knows. |
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| Was great episode, had the same feel as original SG so i got into it really quickly. Havent read manga but this episode slightly confused me, i thought that Kirusu got saved and ww3 was prevented by destorying time machine, i have a feeling this is slightly different time line then that at the end of original? |
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Good first episode 7u7  |
FireCrauterApr 11, 2018 3:02 PM
| The question isn't "What anime do you like?" That is merely a list. The question is "Why do you like it?" That tells a story. Your story. |
| By the way, the animation seemed very different from that of the first season, maybe it has been too long and I don't remember clearly, but yeah, I felt it was very static and less emotionally investing... The art seemed ok. As for the writing of the episode in particular, it seemed ok, the situation as a whole is so different it weirds me out. |
HPFusion said: Was great episode, had the same feel as original SG so i got into it really quickly. Havent read manga but this episode slightly confused me, i thought that Kirusu got saved and ww3 was prevented by destorying time machine, i have a feeling this is slightly different time line then that at the end of original? Watch episode 23 beta, it's what happens when Okabe gives up the first time and there's no one to help him from the future. This is what happened originally before the happy ending was achieved. |
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Aquamirror said: A_Haiku_Unloose said: What you said would be true if we all behaved always the same way, but obviously, the same person can act and feel differently in similar situations, emotions are not impulse A+ impulse B=emotion 1, or people would be much more predictable than they really are. (not in the same way as each other, but person A always as person A in the same situation) The anime also knows this is a tough question, and the system itself is still under testing so even they don't fully understand what to expect from it, it makes for a good thinking about these themes. The next episode should show Amadeus in action and maybe explain or introduce more things you would wonder about. Obviously you won't act the same way, and the AI won't either. It has the full data over what is deemed important and if the person against looks trusting enough, it tries to imitate what it knows. All that I am saying is, that if they said that Makise has found a way to transfer memories+emotions into a machine, and left it at that, without any explanation, I wouldn't have said a thing, but here it seems that the explanation is poor, so I would be happier if there wasn't any. I don't know if that makes sense to you, but to me it does. :D |
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Liravin said: It's not supposed to be Steins;Gate. Tonally, S;G 0 is a whole new thing, and the creators are aware of that. Okabe's a much more different person than he ever way, and some of the things he'll have to go through is horrifying. If you're expecting a similar experience as S;G, then prepare to be disappointed. S;G 0 has it's own style and its own direction. Only because it's different doesn't make it bad. That PTSD scene was NOT okay IMO. The sound was apalling and the visuals instantly made me realize that whatever I'm watching here is clearly not Steins;Gate. It felt completely alien to me - someone who has watched Steins;Gate 6 times. Definetely a failure. |
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A_Haiku_Unloose said: BlackZenith said: Actual neuroscientist with Machine Learning skills here. It is actually very, VERY possible to imitate human emotions and behaviour if you have a sofisticated enough neural network encompassing the whole of CA4/CA1/EC/DG of hippocampus, dorsolateral prefrontal cortex for working memory, amygdala for emotions etc. You just need the relevant weights for the plasticity between the networks of each region, which would come from the "data" collected for Amadeus. You said one of the crucial things. Plasticity. The brains synapses are fluid, not stationary, so that would be a problem with "converting to data". And yes, they didn't talk about amygdala, but I let it slide as temporal lobe. You are speaking as if everything about the brain is well known and that there are basically AI with emotions on our doorstep. If it was like that, psychiatric patients wouldn't be in such a unfavorable situation atm. I am M.D, if that is important for some reason. Didn't really understand the weights part, but it doesn't sound too feasible to me. Unless there has been some amazing breakthrough in the last couple of days, about which I haven't heard, science has a rough sketch about the way emotions work (location+neurotransmitters), the rest is pretty hazy. Memories=information I can somewhat buy, but emotions=information... Not yet anyhow. Emotions may not be information, but they're programs, or task activated by programs, that work with the information (memories) we receive or are stored within our brain. They never said anything about the emotions being copied too, it's more probable that they managed to develop complex programs that can simulate emotion with enough accuracy to fool a human. |
| You are not your body, you are your brain, the "self" that emerges from within it. |
HyperL said: A_Haiku_Unloose said: You said one of the crucial things. Plasticity. The brains synapses are fluid, not stationary, so that would be a problem with "converting to data". And yes, they didn't talk about amygdala, but I let it slide as temporal lobe. You are speaking as if everything about the brain is well known and that there are basically AI with emotions on our doorstep. If it was like that, psychiatric patients wouldn't be in such a unfavorable situation atm. I am M.D, if that is important for some reason. Didn't really understand the weights part, but it doesn't sound too feasible to me. Unless there has been some amazing breakthrough in the last couple of days, about which I haven't heard, science has a rough sketch about the way emotions work (location+neurotransmitters), the rest is pretty hazy. Memories=information I can somewhat buy, but emotions=information... Not yet anyhow. Emotions may not be information, but they're programs, or task activated by programs, that work with the information (memories) we receive or are stored within our brain. They never said anything about the emotions being copied too, it's more probable that they managed to develop complex programs that can simulate emotion with enough accuracy to fool a human. I believe the exact words were "copied human emotions and memories". But i understand they may have thought copied like recreated, not like copy pasted. I still don't think that science knows enough about emotions to be able to recreate them, that sounds like an even further stretch. A AI with emotions that are programmed would be predictable in all situations, unlike humans. Making a machine feel fear sounds somewhat feasible. Love? A thousand times no. |
A_Haiku_UnlooseApr 11, 2018 3:04 PM
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| Came here to say Stein's Gate FTW. 11/10 |
A_Haiku_Unloose said: HyperL said: Emotions may not be information, but they're programs, or task activated by programs, that work with the information (memories) we receive or are stored within our brain. They never said anything about the emotions being copied too, it's more probable that they managed to develop complex programs that can simulate emotion with enough accuracy to fool a human. I believe the exact words were "copied human emotions and memories". But i understand they may have thought copied like recreated, not like copy pasted. I still don't think that science knows enough about emotions to be able to recreate them, that sounds like an even further stretch. A AI with emotions that are programmed would be predictable in all situations, unlike humans. Not if they're a self learning program. As the VN explains later, Amadeus is capable of editing it's own program to a certain extent, and it very much does so based on the information it receives. Also the translation I watched say " A system which preserves human data as memories" and "it has feeling and memories, just like a human" but doesn't meantion said feeling being copied. |
HyperLApr 11, 2018 3:10 PM
| You are not your body, you are your brain, the "self" that emerges from within it. |
HyperL said: A_Haiku_Unloose said: I believe the exact words were "copied human emotions and memories". But i understand they may have thought copied like recreated, not like copy pasted. I still don't think that science knows enough about emotions to be able to recreate them, that sounds like an even further stretch. A AI with emotions that are programmed would be predictable in all situations, unlike humans. Not if they're a self learning program. As the VN explains later, Amadeus is capable of editing it's own program to a certain extent, and it very much does so based on the information it receives. Well that there is definitely some SF, can't argue with that, really. |
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| A great 1st episode! Thx White Fox !! I'm VN reader and I like how they add the ost of VN and The Ed -Amadues-!! I can't wait for the next ep .. |
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HyperL said: A_Haiku_Unloose said: I believe the exact words were "copied human emotions and memories". But i understand they may have thought copied like recreated, not like copy pasted. I still don't think that science knows enough about emotions to be able to recreate them, that sounds like an even further stretch. A AI with emotions that are programmed would be predictable in all situations, unlike humans. Not if they're a self learning program. As the VN explains later, Amadeus is capable of editing it's own program to a certain extent, and it very much does so based on the information it receives. Also the translation I watched say " A system which preserves human data as memories" and "it has feeling and memories, just like a human" but doesn't meantion said feeling being copied. Well, I guess we will wait for the next episode to see more information about the program, it was only a couple of sentences so far, after all, you reserve your right to believe it is plausible, and I reserve mine not to. :) |
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| As someone who started watching the original Steins;Gate just a few weeks ago, I enjoyed this episode a lot and even feel like I'm gonna like 0 more than the original series. I liked the original a lot but it's a bit overhyped in my opinion. I can't wait for it to get confusing as hell |
| STEINS;GATE HAS FINALLY RETURNED REJOICE BECAUSE ALL OF YOU BEAUTIFUL DISGUSTING OTAKU CAN FINALLY MASTURBATE TO THE FANTASTICAL SCIENTIFICALLY INSPIRED MINDFUCK THAT IS STEINS;GATE ZERO BECAUSE WITHOUT ALL OF THIS IN OUR LIVES IT WOULD BE INCOMPLETE, NOTHING BUT A MEANINGLESS VOID SIMILAR TO A BLACK HOLE THAT CAN SEND YOU BACK IN TIME BUT NEVER REEXPERIENCE IT BUT ALAS WE GET A NEW ADVENTURE WITH THE SCIENTIFIC ADVENTURE SERIES TO SATISFY OUR TASTES! AND TO ALL OF THE HATERS THAT WILL BE HATING REGARDLESS OF LOGIC OR REASON I DECLARE TO YOU THAT THERE'S NOTHING YOU CAN DO TO STOP THE HYPE TRAIN, YA SUNUVABITCH! (insults are used for comedic effect only) |
Draconix814Apr 11, 2018 3:29 PM
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