| When people use the word mature it is always to talk about a series they like, when people mention series like elfin lied saying it is mature, others would say a series having a lot of gore and rape doesn't mean it is mature. These people are actually the one that is wrong. Because a mature series simple means it has themes that are targeted towards a older audience. like a series that shows character getting rape, I'm sure we wouldn't want kids watching that, because they are not the target audience. Persons mistakenly mix up quality with the term mature, if a series has gore rape and is very violent and that is the only thing about it, that doesn't demote it from being a mature series, it just means the quality isn't good or it is executed in a poorly unrealistic manner. I wish people would stop saying stuff like "this series is trying to be mature" or "this series looks mature, but it is not" I use to think the same, but now I'm avoiding the word mature as a means to say a series is therefore of high quality, because a series being mature can be garbage, just like a series that is not mature. What do you guys think? Should we stick to the actual definition of what a mature series is, or should we over complicate it and get 1 million different definition by each person. If you ask persons to give their input on what a mature series is, you would get all type of definition, and even if every persons say, having realistic characters, realistic themes, good execution etc, those definition will never be accurate, because in the end all of this will lead right back to the quality of the series and every single person will have a different opinion on that. So I say stick to the right but simple definition. |
| Having explicit scene=mature however mature=/=good and this is where all those retards went wrong. they think that mature=good. So I say it again guys, Elfen Lied is a mature series! |
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You said: Having explicit scene=mature however mature=/= good and this is where all those retards went wrong. they think that mature=good. One part is wrong. They don't think mature = good but since it's mature they think whey are not watching "cartoons" or "animations" so they are creating a comfort zone there. |
| You're right OP. Elfen Lied isn't mature, it's shock factor. |
Please learn about cel animation and its technical process. Learn how special effects and backlighting were done without computers. |
| mature is like higrashi, tokyo ghoul and akame ga kil!!!!!! |
Cross  AngeHey guys check my profile for current airing season anime recommendation (guaranteed best taste) |
| Well really all mature means is that it probably wont be appropriate for kids. So in a way Elfen Lied is mature because of all the violence and nudity. But something like Usagi Drop is also mature, not because of blood or boobs, but because it would bore most kids to death. |
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| Ive honestly become so lazy I don't call those kinds of shows mature anymore I just call them edge lord material since they are very different to something mature such as Welcime to the NHK or LOTGH |
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| Maturity when it comes to series doesn't always mean it has explicit content such as language, nudity, heavy violence or gore? Some anime that are heavy on that content can come off as juvenile and it seems inappropriate for a younger audience but it's actually the older audience that is drawn away from it due to a lot of those elements. To me maturity can be found in the themes that are presented by the anime's narrative and dialog and the handling of subject matter. It's the shows that give more meaning to particular moments may they be death related, sexual or otherwise. It's not something that is always in your face to garner any sort of shock factor, but actually put out there as a driving force to a plot point until you reach the very end of the series. |
| Mature has two meanings. The first refers to more explicit stuff that would be harmful to children-- overexposure to sex, violence, etc. The latter simply refers to having a grown-up or adult way of looking at things, being responsible and beingpast childlike mentalities. Many teens like to think blood and gore or heavier sexuality makes what they watch make them seem more adult-like when it doesn't. On the contrary, it just outlines how childish they still are. Presenting themes that only a mature person could fully appreciate is what makes a story mature in that regard, and in that sense a great deal of anime could be considered mature, even shows that are aimed at children. Obviously shows with adult elements can be mature in both senses, but there is a definite difference in the two meanings. |
Deknijff said: Ive honestly become so lazy I don't call those kinds of shows mature anymore I just call them edge lord material since they are very different to something mature such as Welcime to the NHK or LOTGH You see this is exactly what I'm talking about, maybe because you feel welcome to NHK or logh to be of a more higher quality than elfin lied? The whole point of my thread is that we are mixing up mature with quality, they are separate things, one is about target audience while the other is about how good the writing is. @TripleSRank and the point I'm making is that they are still both classified as mature series. |
keragammingApr 9, 2017 12:49 PM
keragamming said: ah well I gave LOTGH a 5 and NHK a 7 while giving stuff like Akame ga Kill, Higurashi and Elfen Lied 8s and 9s so its not a matter of so called quality for me Deknijff said: You see this is exactly what I'm talking about, maybe because you feel welcome to NHK or logh to be of a more higher quality than elfin lied?Ive honestly become so lazy I don't call those kinds of shows mature anymore I just call them edge lord material since they are very different to something mature such as Welcime to the NHK or LOTGH The whole point of my thread is that we are mixing up mature with quality, they are separate things, one is about target audience while the other is about how good the writing is. |
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keragamming said: @TripleSRank and the point I'm making is that they are still both classified as mature series. Words can have more than one meaning. They both might be "mature", but it's in different senses. There's nothing inherently wrong with a child-like approach to themes. It's preference. I think an adult approach is simply something that's much more widely appreciated, which is why you probably only ever see mature's latter usage in a positive context. Having a mature approach to themes is something I think I would always consider positive, but it doesn't automatically mean the series in question is a good one since there are many other factors I evaluate. |
| Maturity does not just mean 'not being for kids'. Not sure where you got this definition from. None of the dictionaries I checked out included a definition like that. Your definition implies that being adult = maturity but adults can frequently be immature and younger people can be 'mature for their age'. The terms isn't particularly related to age or target demographic, more to behaviour and responsability Maturity can mean "being developed mentally and emotionally and behaving in a responsible way" and refer to characters with those characteristics (and by extension to shows where those kind of characters are prominent). It can also mean 'based on slow careful consideration' and therefore refer to series to characterize their writing as such. "(especially of a young person) having reached a stage of mental or emotional development characteristic of an adult." is also part of what the term can mean. That's usually the definition relevant when people call kids anime or young characters mature. Basically I don't think a term having more than one meaning and being to some degree subjective is anywhere close to being a good reason to make up our own, simplified meaning for the term. Google the definition for basically any word, almost all of them have more than one meaning. And if being subjective was a reason to reject the meaning of a term, why don't we redefine basic, subjective terms like 'good' or 'bad' as well with that reasoning? As for the relation with quality, of course for people who enjoy maturity in their shows it will usually make them better in their eyes. I don't know what's weird about that. Just like someone who likes will prefer shows that have ecchi in them. The correlation is natural for anyone who actually want to see maturity in their anime. It just becomes confusing when people use it to just refer to any sort of violence, gore or rape in an anime because they like that kind of stuff but don't want to go ahead and say 'I liked Elfen Lied because it was edgy, bloody and gory.' so they use a term (maturity) that gives a wrong impression of what they liked about the show. Because they probably didn't like it because of it being mature in the sense that I mentioned above. If they did they should be able to support their position with arguments, if they just liked it for the violence and wrongly label it mature solely based on that there isn't much to discuss, they are simply using the term wrong. As many meaning as mature has, I don't believe that is one of them.They mistakenly think that calling something mature makes it automatically good so they apply the term even when they are not actually talking about maturity which makes everything more confusing for everyone. If people just stuck to the more prevalent meanings I mentioned it wouldn't be such a controversial topic. |
AlcoholicideApr 9, 2017 1:28 PM
| I probably regret this post by now. |
| Your use of "medium" is inaccurate, anime is not a medium at least not the western use. Animation is the medium, anime is a genre. |
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| I posted about this once upon a time. :) Yeah. It happens. Edgy teens ruin everything. Us actual adults will think Wolf Children is more mature than Elfin Lied which we could only enjoy when we were 16. Wolf Children is forever. It speaks to a real experience we can connect with as adults... even if it is having babies with a wolfman... ummm lol wild and crazy kids and moving to the country to give them the best life possible- yeah that is something a lot of parents can relate to. But at the same time, if all we did was try to watch "mature grounded anime" life would be boring. Sure edgelord anime might not be appealing anymore but many adults like watching high school anime of some sort. haha. An over the top parody like Sakamoto is adored. |
Energetic-NovaApr 9, 2017 1:12 PM
The anime community in a nutshell.  |
| The way I see it is that there are two prevalent types of mature for anime. There is mature content, which typically as you stated before, is ones that have adult scenes. These can include gore, blood, rape, etc. Of course it could be said that the use of 'mature' here is wrong, and these scenes should just be classified as 'adult scenes'. But nowadays, mature has always been a misconstrued word. In movie ratings as well as game ratings, the word mature is a synonym to adult, where it signifies 18+. Hence, it's difficult to say exactly what mature means in today's society. On the other hand, I would say that there is mature ideology. These typically involve someone growing up, learning from their decisions, and making the right decisions based on their moral compass. Typically when someone says 'this series is trying to be mature', I think that they are most typically referring to this type of maturity. They try to make a philosophical meaning out of something and poorly execute it. In all honesty I feel that there is no right answer to this argument, since the way people perceive the word 'mature' is different in spite of the dictionary definition. But all in all, I will agree that 'mature' in all forms is not directly correlated with quality. |
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| Okay. Looking back at the original post here I have to say that I do agree with a particular aspect of it being that using the term mature or even indicating some sort of level of maturity to even consider a series as a good one is or even panning a series for it's lack of maturity is definitely something that has skewed the definition of the word. Maturity is definitely not something that indicates that a show is a quality show or not, in fact there are shows that a completely devoid of maturity and they quite frankly great series. However, there is no way to stop the community from using a series 'maturity level' as a measure of how good a series is as a whole and there is going to be this constant debate as to what the actual meaning of a mature series is. |
TripleSRank said: It is in regard to the cultural/stylistic baggage it carries. I don't find the comparison with watercolours to be appropriate since anime in this context doesn't involve only the means anime is produced with.zal said: Your use of "medium" is inaccurate, anime is not a medium at least not the western use. Animation is the medium, anime is a genre. Yours is too. You may as well say painting is a medium and watercolors are a genre. Anime is part of the animation medium, but it's not a "genre". |
zalApr 9, 2017 1:21 PM
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zal said: TripleSRank said: It is in regard to the cultural/stylistic baggage it carries. I don't find the comparison with watercolours to be appropriate since anime doesn't involve only the means they are produced.Yours is too. You may as well say painting is a medium and watercolors are a genre. Anime is part of the animation medium, but it's not a "genre". If you're wondering why my original post disappeared by the time you replied, it's because I didn't want to derail the thread with pettiness. |
zal said: Your use of "medium" is inaccurate, anime is not a medium at least not the western use. Animation is the medium, anime is a genre. " The word is the abbreviated pronunciation of "animation" in Japanese, where this term references all animation" - Wikipedia One in the same. Anime is just a lingo term for specifically Japanese animation. By that sense I would say it is a medium. But yes, take this else where this does not belong in this thread. |
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| That's like saying the fucking pop-up from the scary maze game is 'mature' because it has 'gore', though. Don't get me wrong, I agree, somewhat. And mature definitely does not equate to the 'objective good'. However, I also believe that 'mature', at least when we're discussing media, is too loose of a topic for us to say 'this is how you should use the word, and only for this'. |
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| You know what we need to have a discussion on? The inaccurate use of the term "netorare". I see it misused way too fucking often. |
| I don't see what's wrong with using 'mature' as a positive trait that leads to high quality. 'Mature' means it's not immature, not self-centered. The views expressed acknowledge the diversity and variety of life. It explores the themes from various viewpoints and doesn't just write off characters as heroes and villains. It will be considered with the character's psyche. It won't use serious subject matter just to shock. |
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| Maturity is not a number but a state of mind. Cliche statement is cliche but it is what it is. Gore, rape, and violence for the sake of gore, rape, and violence are as juvenile as they come, adult content notwithstanding. And I will maintain that maturity is a reliable indicator of quality. Not all good shows are mature but all mature shows are likely to be good because it's the nature of the beast. It doesn't mean that mature series are going to be everybody's cup of tea but that mature series often clicks on all the right check-boxes in good storytelling. But without solid rubrics on what makes a series mature discussing maturity, let alone judging a series by it, can be very difficult. Heck, even the age and/or the qualities of what it means to be mature varies wildly depending on the social structure and culture. So even while I disagree with OP on his definition of maturity, the term should not be the end all be all of describing why a series is good. I may sound pedantic but hear me out here. Instead of describing a series as mature how about describing what makes it mature? I think going into the why of things from your own view helps alleviate the lack of common ground when it comes to discussions. |
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| Agreed OP, people do misuse the word a lot. I'm surprised no one has called out about this tbh. |
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le_halfhand_easy said: Maturity is not a number but a state of mind. Cliche statement is cliche but it is what it is. Gore, rape, and violence for the sake of gore, rape, and violence are as juvenile as they come, adult content notwithstanding. And I will maintain that maturity is a reliable indicator of quality. Not all good shows are mature but all mature shows are likely to be good because it's the nature of the beast. It doesn't mean that mature series are going to be everybody's cup of tea but that mature series often clicks on all the right check-boxes in good storytelling. But without solid rubrics on what makes a series mature discussing maturity, let alone judging a series by it, can be very difficult. Heck, even the age and/or the qualities of what it means to be mature varies wildly depending on the social structure and culture. So even while I disagree with OP on his definition of maturity, the term should not be the end all be all of describing why a series is good. I may sound pedantic but hear me out here. Instead of describing a series as mature how about describing what makes it mature? I think going into the why of things from your own view helps alleviate the lack of common ground when it comes to discussions. I'd say that good shows which are not mature, also don't try to be mature. They'll be childish and celebrate it and won't use 'adult content' to seem badass. Immaturity becomes bad when it has the pretense of maturity via gore and sex. |
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| What bothers me the most is people using the logic that maturity somehow equals quality. Like an anime being mature automatically makes it good and an anime being immature automatically makes it bad Should go without saying imo but that's complete bullshit. Of course people have individual preferences so if you like more mature themes then good for you, but please stop trying to speak for the whole anime community when you do that >.> |
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| 'Mature" is always subjective imo. What constitutes something as being mature will always be different for everyone. |
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HaXXspetten said: I think it is the contrary, when a show is considered good it will be called mature. I have yet to see someone saying that a show is mature but it's bad. Usually there's edgy for that.What bothers me the most is people using the logic that maturity somehow equals quality. Like an anime being mature automatically makes it good and an anime being immature automatically makes it bad Should go without saying imo but that's complete bullshit. Of course people have individual preferences so if you like more mature themes then good for you, but please stop trying to speak for the whole anime community when you do that >.> When does this happen? |
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| one piece is mature, ill fight on this |
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SolidWoIf said: one piece is mature, ill fight on this itz nod OT: Its one of the vague shitty words that should generally be avoided unless you wanna sound cool(which ofc results in sounding retarded cause youre a weeb - again, self deprecating continues) |
 Oshii is probably the only director that loves dogs. He thinks he's a dog himself. That's right, its slime! It will dissolve your clothing slowly before my eyes! |
HaXXspetten said: What bothers me the most is people using the logic that maturity somehow equals quality. Like an anime being mature automatically makes it good and an anime being immature automatically makes it bad Should go without saying imo but that's complete bullshit. Of course people have individual preferences so if you like more mature themes then good for you, but please stop trying to speak for the whole anime community when you do that >.> It's true, though. Being mature is good. Look at my reasoning. It means its view is less narrow, more critical and more containing of its characters. |
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TheBrainintheJar said: I don't see what's wrong with using 'mature' as a positive trait that leads to high quality. 'Mature' means it's not immature, not self-centered. The views expressed acknowledge the diversity and variety of life. It explores the themes from various viewpoints and doesn't just write off characters as heroes and villains. It will be considered with the character's psyche. It won't use serious subject matter just to shock. Except when the author ends up caught in a cognitive trap that prevents him/her from actually adding anything good into the anime. Because he/she (but it's usually a he, and I even know his name) is too busy adding viewpoints, psyches and realism, and forgets to add relatable characters, reasons to care about the work, fun or any kind of enjoyment. |
| To be "mature", it doesn't just need "mature" themes, but whatever themes are portrayed need to be handled in a "mature" way. A series that portrays the realities of death and loneliness is not mature if it keeps treating it's protagonist like a loser and plays his loneliness for laughs. |
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| As long as there's this dude who'll spout thousand of vocab that not even Shakespeare had heard of, that seems mature enough to me. |
keragamming said: When people use the word mature it is always to talk about a series they like, when people mention series like elfin lied saying it is mature, others would say a series having a lot of gore and rape doesn't mean it is mature. These people are actually the one that is wrong. Incorrect, if a series is full of gore or rape, it's adult, but adult shows can be immature. Examples: Owari no Seraph, Trinity Seven, Triage X etc. Maturity is a separate bar, set by a show's worldbuilding, character development and interactions and non-use of viewer-patronizing storytelling techniques, such as exposition dumps, characters talking to themselves to remind the audience of what's happening, vapid fanservice, deus ex machina, soapboxing (telling the viewer overbearingly who's right in an on-screen conflict) or posturing dialogues. |
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| I got in a long argument in a similar thread not too long ago about this topic (though I can't seem to find the thread anymore), so I'm not gonna get too detailed about my beef with the word 'mature'. In short, I think the description of 'mature' is meaningless and tells me nothing about the merits of a show. I'd rather we just stopped using it to describe anime altogether. |
yhunata said: To be "mature", it doesn't just need "mature" themes, but whatever themes are portrayed need to be handled in a "mature" way. A series that portrays the realities of death and loneliness is not mature if it keeps treating it's protagonist like a loser and plays his loneliness for laughs. "in a mature way" and this is where the subjective part comes in, and where this more lean towards "quality" than "maturity". And this is why I was saying using the word "maturity" to say something is good is pointless, and it would be better if a person explain its qualities. @Pullman what I am saying is that your view on a mature seriesc is basically how good you think the story is written, and this all come back to quality, which we all know is subjective and thus only if that person think it is of high quality only then it would be considered as being mature. Darek said: The only proper way to tell that a show is mature is if it is 20+ year old. Otherwise I ignore every statement about maturity/immaturity in shows, go take your insecurities somewhere else people. It has nothing to do with insecurity, we are here to discussed here. @Red_Tuesday read what I said to YHunta above. What you are talking about is very subject and that is why its best to keep it simple. |
keragamming said: @Pullman what I am saying is that your view on a mature seriesc is basically how good you think the story is written, and this all come back to quality, which we all know is subjective and thus only if that person think it is of high quality only then it would be considered as being mature. Even in that case you can still use the term to differentiate between good mature and good immature series. Even if mature is generally a positive term used to praise shows it doesn't mean that it has no relevant meaning beyond that and is just another equivalent of 'good'. At best it's 'good in this one specific way '(of showing characters that are 'developed mentally and emotionally and behaving in a responsible way', or more generalized good at appealing to an adult audience) and there isn't really any other term with that particular meaning. |
| I probably regret this post by now. |
keragamming said: When people use the word mature it is always to talk about a series they like, Not really, they just talk about gore. smfk when people mention series like elfin lied saying it is mature, others would say a series having a lot of gore and rape doesn't mean it is mature. These people are actually the one that is wrong. I agree on this. The charm of Elfin lied is about discrimination theme for me, not just those gore. Because a mature series simple means it has themes that are targeted towards a older audience. like a series that shows character getting rape, I'm sure we wouldn't want kids watching that, because they are not the target audience. Persons mistakenly mix up quality with the term mature, if a series has gore rape and is very violent and that is the only thing about it, that doesn't demote it from being a mature series, it just means the quality isn't good or it is executed in a poorly unrealistic manner. TBH yeah it does not disqualify it from being "mature" but when we discuss about mature we talk about mentality mature not just surfacely mature. So just because it has gore does not mean it is mature in mentality sense. of course unless those who dicuss about these "mature topic" are those who think " hey dude, i watched porn, I'm an adult now". I wish people would stop saying stuff like "this series is trying to be mature" or "this series looks mature, but it is not" Also I wish people stop saying the series is mature just because it has gore. I use to think the same, but now I'm avoiding the word mature as a means to say a series is therefore of high quality, because a series being mature can be garbage, just like a series that is not mature. True. Actually many people really did make a lot fallacy because of this logic. Just because a show handle a mature theme does not mean it will be a high quality show. What do you guys think? Should we stick to the actual definition of what a mature series is, or should we over complicate it and get 1 million different definition by each person. If you ask persons to give their input on what a mature series is, you would get all type of definition, and even if every persons say, having realistic characters, realistic themes, good execution etc, those definition will never be accurate, because in the end all of this will lead right back to the quality of the series and every single person will have a different opinion on that. Choose which one that is more reasonable. Word are nothing more than an expression of feeling. Word will change depend on how people use it. Remember that awful is at first, a positive meaning, but now it has a negative meaning. If you stubbornly stick to dictionary meaning then it's nothing more than appeal to dictionary fallacy and/or appeal to arrogant fallacy. So I say stick to the right but simple definition. It's not as simple as that. But TBH everything is really simple, it is us who make it become complicated by trying to justify to our desires. |
TheBrainintheJar said: Sorry but no. Being mature does not have anything to do with quality.HaXXspetten said: What bothers me the most is people using the logic that maturity somehow equals quality. Like an anime being mature automatically makes it good and an anime being immature automatically makes it bad Should go without saying imo but that's complete bullshit. Of course people have individual preferences so if you like more mature themes then good for you, but please stop trying to speak for the whole anime community when you do that >.> It's true, though. Being mature is good. Look at my reasoning. It means its view is less narrow, more critical and more containing of its characters. A show with sex content will be labeled as mature. A show with gore will be labeled as mature. Mature does not only follow the only logic of "mentality mature". There is a diffrerent between mature approach and mature content but both are still mature, denying one are nothing more than No True Scotsman fallacy. Darek said: what? are you saying the show from 80s are all mature show?The only proper way to tell that a show is mature is if it is 20+ year old. Otherwise I ignore every statement about maturity/immaturity in shows, go take your insecurities somewhere else people. or the show which are only available for 20+ are mature show? zal said: HaXXspetten said: I think it is the contrary, when a show is considered good it will be called mature. I have yet to see someone saying that a show is mature but it's bad. Usually there's edgy for that.What bothers me the most is people using the logic that maturity somehow equals quality. Like an anime being mature automatically makes it good and an anime being immature automatically makes it bad First, a lot of people call Tokyo goul as mature because of the edgyness it show. The statement "usually there's edgy for that" of yours make your whole sentence become Fallacies of Ambiguity. Should go without saying imo but that's complete bullshit. Of course people have individual preferences so if you like more mature themes then good for you, but please stop trying to speak for the whole anime community when you do that >.> When does this happen?Stop trying to fake that you've never seen it. |
SucirylliApr 12, 2017 12:09 PM
MEoD said: By saying that "a lot of people call Tokyo goul as mature because of the edgyness it show" you basically confirm what I was saying. If they like the show then they will call it mature, if they don't like it then it's edgy. It is quite a generalization and simplification but it's basically how things seem to go in the anime community, maybe even outside of it.zal said: I think it is the contrary, when a show is considered good it will be called mature. I have yet to see someone saying that a show is mature but it's bad. Usually there's edgy for that. First, a lot of people call Tokyo goul as mature because of the edgyness it show. The statement "usually there's edgy for that" of yours make your whole sentence become Fallacies of Ambiguity. Should go without saying imo but that's complete bullshit. Of course people have individual preferences so if you like more mature themes then good for you, but please stop trying to speak for the whole anime community when you do that >.> When does this happen?Stop trying to fake that you've never seen it.[/quote]Does it really happen all the time or you get someone's opinion the wrong way? Everytime you express an opinion without using "I think" or "I feel" does it really mean that you are speakng for the whole community? Someone saying "Steins; Gate is a good show" speaks for the whole community? No because I think it was kinda mediocre/just fine, yet it would sound silly to you if I called him out just for that, no? Especially because most people do think it was a good show. People push for what they like but it is a problem only when you disagree with it. No one complaining about people that say enjoyment is everything in anime, nor that EcchiLordMamster continuously pushes for ecchi. However they are not speaking for the whole community, I prefer shows to be interesting and I am not a fan of ecchi. Someone pushes for what they like and consider mature or more sophisticated? Oh, they are so pseudo-intellectuals. If you don't agree just say it. |
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zal said: MEoD said: By saying that "a lot of people call Tokyo goul as mature because of the edgyness it show" you basically confirm what I was saying. If they like the show then they will call it mature, if they don't like it then it's edgy. It is quite a generalization and simplification but it's basically how things seem to go in the anime community, maybe even outside of it.First, a lot of people call Tokyo goul as mature because of the edgyness it show. The statement "usually there's edgy for that" of yours make your whole sentence become Fallacies of Ambiguity. Your answering is actually not quite clear yet tbh. It can fall into Affirming the consequence fallacy Ambipholy fallacy (unlikely though) Fallacy of single cause/complex cause And You never mentioned "like" when you refute Haxx statement but using the term "good". of course if you want to change your original statement then we will have different debate and and of course your statement will be nothing more than a Equivocation fallacy. all the time for dem pseudo-intellectual person. Does it really happen all the time or you get someone's opinion the wrong way?Stop trying to fake that you've never seen it. Everytime you express an opinion without using "I think" or "I feel" does it really mean that you are speakng for the whole community? Someone saying "Steins; Gate is a good show" speaks for the whole community? No because I think it was kinda mediocre/just fine, yet it would sound silly to you if I called him out just for that, no? Especially because most people do think it was a good show. People push for what they like but it is a problem only when you disagree with it. No one complaining about people that say enjoyment is everything in anime, nor that EcchiLordMamster continuously pushes for ecchi. However they are not speaking for the whole community, I prefer shows to be interesting and I am not a fan of ecchi. Someone pushes for what they like and consider mature or more sophisticated? Oh, they are so pseudo-intellectuals. If you don't agree just say it. These type of people never actaully expicitly say it but always implying that way because of insecurity and trying to open a leeway if someone happen to attack their logic. of course I won't go and search for the quotes of every person who try to portray mature as good quality from all anime episode discussion for you, If you don't want to believe it it's up to you, I will concede on this point. But none of your statement has denied Haxx's statement yet. And this is straw man fallacy. Someone pushes for what they like and consider mature or more sophisticated? Oh, they are so pseudo-intellectuals. |
MEoD said: Explain whyzal said: By saying that "a lot of people call Tokyo goul as mature because of the edgyness it show" you basically confirm what I was saying. If they like the show then they will call it mature, if they don't like it then it's edgy. It is quite a generalization and simplification but it's basically how things seem to go in the anime community, maybe even outside of it. Your answering is actually not quite clear yet tbh. It can fall into Affirming the consequence fallacy Ambipholy fallacy (unlikely though) Fallacy of single cause/complex cause And Pretty much the same thing.You never mentioned "like" when you refute Haxx statement but using the term "good". of course if you want to change your original statement then we will have different debate and and of course your statement will be nothing more than a Equivocation fallacy. Are you just trying to be annoying?You don't like Tokyo Ghoul therefore you refer to it as edgy. Some people like Tokyo Ghoul and refer to it as mature. You might want to say that Tokyo Ghoul is actually edgy and not mature but that is not a fact, just an opinion. Hax says that people says that mature=>good but I think people call shows mature mostly when they like it or think it is good, just reverse cause-effect. Does it really happen all the time or you get someone's opinion the wrong way? Or simple question is have you really never seen it or don't you want to admit it? Your question is nothing more than Ad Fidentia fallacy.Everytime you express an opinion without using "I think" or "I feel" does it really mean that you are speakng for the whole community? Someone saying "Steins; Gate is a good show" speaks for the whole community? No because I think it was kinda mediocre/just fine, yet it would sound silly to you if I called him out just for that, no? Especially because most people do think it was a good show. People push for what they like but it is a problem only when you disagree with it. No one complaining about people that say enjoyment is everything in anime, nor that EcchiLordMamster continuously pushes for ecchi. However they are not speaking for the whole community, I prefer shows to be interesting and I am not a fan of ecchi. Someone pushes for what they like and consider mature or more sophisticated? Oh, they are so pseudo-intellectuals. If you don't agree just say it. These type of people never actaully expicitly say it but always implying that way because of insecurity and trying to open a leeway if someone happen to attack their logic. of course I won't go and search for the quotes of every person who try to portray mature as good quality from all anime episode discussion for you, If you don't want to believe it it's up to you, I will concede on this point. But none of your statement has denied Haxx's statement yet. If it happens all the time then it shouldn't be hard to find those quotes. |
zalApr 12, 2017 2:50 PM
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